Trading Marshawn
by sireric on Dec 19, 2009 12:10 PM EST
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PrintI have mentioned on several occasions now that if I was running the Buffalo Bills I would be actively shopping Marshawn Lynch. It is time that I fully explained myself. Let me set a few thing straight right off the bat:
First: Marshawn probably has more value to the Bills then he does elsewhere. What I mean by that is this; he is already on the Bills and under a modest contract, (well not crazy anyway). He is a good player, and when he is on the field and getting carries he can be a force. The biggest risk that he has, (and the main reason I would look to deal him) is his off field issues. Marshawn is one screw up away from a year long ban. Teams may shy away from him based on that. He is already on the Bills so the risk is already theirs, other teams might not want to take on that risk.
Second: I am not suggesting that the Bills give him away for a 5th round pick. That would be stupid. If committed to dealing him, One Bills Drive would have to figure out what compensation they could live with in return for Lynch, then get at least that or don't make the deal. It is that simple.
Third: I said this before as a comment and I will repeat it here; You play Russian Roulette with players every time they step onto the field, whether it is practice, preseason, or regular season there is always a risk of injury that could put a player out for the season. Lynch's legal troubles the last two years have essentially put another bullet in Lynch's roulette gun. Most play with one bullet, Lynch has two.
I would love for Marshawn to be a fine upstanding citizen for the rest of his NFL career and to end up with his name on the Bills Wall of Fame. But sometimes this game is about who is the most prepared and who plans for the inevitable hiccups that occur throughout the season the best. I think it would be very foolish of the Bills to count on Marshawn staying out of trouble this year. He hasn't proven he is capable of doing that yet. If the Bills plan on going into next season with Fred Jackson and Marshawn as their two featured backs with someone the likes of a Dwayne Wright or Xavier Omon as the number three back they are just setting themselves up for disaster. Why not snip that risk in the bud right now?
Some will say that Marshawn's trade value is down and that the Bills wouldn't be able to get much in return for him. How much value will he have is he is suspended for a year? I will also say that similar things were said of Travis Henry and Willis McGahee and yet the Bills where able to get a 3rd rounder for Henry and two 3rds and a 7th for McGahee. if I could get a 3rd and a 4th for Lynch I would jump all over it. Yes, that then opens another hole that needs to be filled, but now the Bills have the means to fill it. If he gets suspended again the Bills will be stuck sifting through the dregs of the scrap heap trying to find gold. It also must be said that if Lynch is dealt early enough a veteran running back could be had easier in free agency. What player will sign with both Lynch and Jackson on the roster? With Lynch gone there is a place for a guy to get 5 - 10 touches a game, that can be very attractive for some players.
I am a fan of Marshawn and would hate to see him leave and flourish somewhere else, but I don't trust him, he hasn't earned that. I would rather be safe then sorry, and that is why I would deal Marshawn Lynch.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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I think you need to get more for him than a 3rd and 4th rounder
The off season would be the worst time to try to trade Lynch, given the issues you outlined. The best time trade him would be in the pre-season after some team loses their RB to injury. In that situation, I can see the Bills getting a second round pick plus a 3rd or 4th rounder for him. Now, if we can get that for him before the draft, by all means take it. But, it is most likely that the Bills will have to get Lynch through the off season without incident. The Bills should do whatever it takes to make sure that happens. Hire a bodyguard/baby sitter to take care of him. It would be well worth the money.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
The best time trade him would be in the pre-season after some team loses their RB to injury. In that situation, I can see the Bills getting a second round pick plus a 3rd or 4th rounder for him.
Yes, but then the Bills have to wait a whole year before they can cash those picks in. The only way they could pull that off is if they sign/draft one or two running backs in the off-season, If they do that then they could afford to deal him for a 3rd and 4th before the draft and use them to fill out some much needed depth.
The only way they could deal Lynch is if they have the depth to replace him. Which they need to get anyway because they can’t trust that he will stay out of trouble to begin with.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I would be fine going with Jackson and another vet with a few miles left in the tank
The Bills will be able to put up someone when final cuts are made, or maybe sign a someone who went undrafted to the PS as insurance.
Lynch is to talented to not get good value for him. Granted your plan is the safest, but what do we have to lose at this point? It is all or nothing for me. Get good value for him, or keep him and take the chance you lose your shirt.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
If said vet with something left in the tank is made available after cut downs, why would a team in need of a running back trade a 2nd rounder for Lynch? Wouldn’t they just sign the vet?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Said vet would no longer have the ability Lynch has to carry a full load
All I am looking for is someone to spell Jackson for a few plays and buy us some time to if Jackson goes down for a game or two.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
jackson is old for a running back, and we don’t know how well he would be able to handle being a number 1 back for a 16 game sched.
by BillsfanDan on Dec 19, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd....
Exactly why we shouldn’t trade Marshawn away unless we get more in return. Our major issue is getting this offensive line mess cleared up. Either through health or additions. Once that is accomplished (and if Marshawn brought a solid OT, then OK) our running game will improve which opens up the passing game which makes the running game better which makes play action passing better which makes draw plays more effective which improves third down efficiency which moves the chains which leads to more scoring which takes the pressure off of your defense. That’s the key!!!!
He’s pretty much had that type of workload this season between carries, catches and returns. Jackson turns 29 this offseason, so while he’s far from young, he’s not that old. His career workload has been less (maybe considerably less) than most name running backs who break down around 30. Guys like Tomlinson and Emmitt Smith are kind of the standard for RBs breaking down around Jackson’s age, but those guys took a pounding over the years. Jackson had a ton of carries in college, but it was D-111, so we’re talking about smaller players and a less physical and hard hitting game. Jackson then played two seasons in that crappy indoor league where he got a ton of touches, but again, it’s a crappy league with smaller players. He had one year in NFL Europe which I think has a shorter season and then he’s been in Buffalo for three years and hasn’t had a big workload until this season. I think you’re safe commiting to Jackson as a number one for at least a couple more seasons.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
all very good points.
But to me hits are hits and mileage is mileage. It is wise to suspect he too was smaller in D3 as well and not his size now, so its all relative. I think he is in a better position than most backs his age. And in Sunday’s game there was a run where he took the corner and went upfield very nicely.
But also another aspect to consider. With a new regime and QB in place (possibly a rookie), wouldn’t the Bills be smart to rely on there running game to help the QB? which in turn creates more carries and opportunities for him?
I think he is a terrific RB and one that very well could be a #1, but my original point (while not stated thoroughly) is that we don’t know how he will handle a full schedule next year, if that ends up being the case. Personally I think our RB situation is right where it should be with Lynch seeing 65% of the touches and Freddy seeing the other 35% right now.
by BillsfanDan on Dec 22, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
With a new regime and QB in place (possibly a rookie), wouldn’t the Bills be smart to rely on there running game to help the QB?
That’s an excellent point and one I havn’t seen made yet. I am hoping that the Bills bring in a coach who is more willing to use a run heavy offense, so I certainly see the appeal of Marshawn and Freddy both on the roster and both getting lots of touches.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Not a fan of this move at all
your point on his off-field situations is valid but ill let it slide.
you don’t trade away a guy who comes in and runs for over 1,000 yards his rookie and soph year. Looking at the offensive struggles and line problems he has done alot, plus he is the type of runner we like in Buffalo;hard nosed and powerful.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Dec 19, 2009 1:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
yea lets just keep trading away our best rb
we went through travis henry willis mcgahee and now u want to ditch marshawn lynch. I dont see a reason in drafting all these runningbacks just to trade them away before their initial contract is up. Its a waste of a pick. It would be one thing if fred jackson was putting up numbers like Chris johnson or something but the two backs are comparable in stats. 731 yards with 2 tds on a 176 attempts really does not impress me. Marshawn has 422 yards and 2 tds on 108 attempts with 3 less games. The past 2 seasons marshawn has rushed for over 1000 yards. jackson has never done that. This whole trading marshawn is a non-issue. It wont happen and its just dumb.
You say Jackson's stats don't impress you
yet they dwarf Lynch’s awful production this year.
Calling it “dumb” is being extremely short-sighted. Just because you disagree with it doesn’t mean it’s “dumb”. This team isn’t going to win next year barring a miracle. With that, this franchise needs to build for the 4-6 years going forward. With a new regime in place, one that may have no plans to keep Lynch around, they need to do what is best for the franchise long term. Getting more draft picks and building with their players is a good way to do so.
Who cares what Lynch did the past two years? We’re looking at what he may or may not do going forward. With a potential year long ban hanging over his head if he screws up, that is indeed a major issue for this franchise.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Okay Kurupt, so one year of adequate production from jackson makes him a better starting back? that seems pretty short sided to me. And no Jacksons stats dont dwarf lynchs stats by any means. Hes had 300 more yards this season. Neither back has done anything to impress me this season theyve both been mediocre at best. Now i can understand if you want to trade lynch now to build the team 4-6 years from now but why keep drafting rbs in the first or second rounds to just trade them away? at some point when you have a quality back you need to build around him not dump and start again. I disagree with you about next season needs a miracle for the bills to be successful. The bills just need a Chad Penningtonesq qb to compete. I firmly believe that. Someone who can manage a game and not turn the ball over. Its not far fetched.
And Joe P fine if your against Lynch because of his off field problems thats one thing. Im not arguing against that. Im thinking strictly from a football stand point of who gives us the best chance to win.
I am not against Lynch, but I am not opposed to trading him for the right price because:
1. I am not convinced he has learned his lesson, and he is one screw up away from a long suspension.
2. I don’t think his is so special that he is untradeable for the right price.
3. His extra “muscle” weight has made him look slow and more like a RB/FB hybrid
4. RBs are a dime a dozen and FBs are cheaper
5. We really could use the picks to file holes. If we can get two picks for him, say a 2nd and a 3rd, then we can fill two holes without really creating one. Jackson can start. We can pick up a bruising type RB/FB late in the draft and bring in a vet to spell Jackson. So, by trading Lynch we can actually fill two holes with starters without creating one.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
Come on dude
Okay Kurupt, so one year of adequate production from jackson makes him a better starting back?
Never said it, never inferred it. You are the king at taking comments the wrong way and putting words in people’s mouths.
Now i can understand if you want to trade lynch now to build the team 4-6 years from now but why keep drafting rbs in the first or second rounds to just trade them away?
Build the team for the next 4-6 years, not 4-6 years from now.
And we’re not the ones drafting RB’s high. That’s our amazing front offices over the last decade. You can’t blame them for trading McGahee either. That was the Jauron regime and McGahee had basically run his course here.
at some point when you have a quality back you need to build around him not dump and start again.
That should have been what the current regime did. They did not. The new regime will be bringing their guys in. If they don’t think Lynch is worth building around, so be it. They’ll trade him.
The bills just need a Chad Penningtonesq qb to compete. I firmly believe that. Someone who can manage a game and not turn the ball over. Its not far fetched.
You can think that, and that’s fine. I just don’t see how a team with such an awful OL, mediocre DL, terrible LB’s and what will be a lack of WR talent next year will be able to be successful just by adding an average veteran QB.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
My first point
I apologize billsstein. You don’t do that like who I was thinking about when I wrote that….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I agree with you that it will take some years to rebuild, but i think it (if all goes as we hope this offseason) is more around 2 to 4 years to be a top contender with the afc east and more. especially with the pats getting old real fast, and the (in my opinion) dodgy identity of the dolphins. The longer we keep lynch around the easier it will be to fill the current holes, by the time we are able to be a contender we could just pick up or draft another tailback.
and plus, if marshawn is suspended a year, he will be that much more fresh for when we make our run at the division and more. and i say that with my tongue firmly planted against my cheek
No. Absolutely no way should this happen.
Until the front office proves adept at drafting talent, no pick is worth the risk in trade for Lynch. What happens if/when Jackson goes down with injury? This would be a HUGE mistake by the Bills – not far behind the Peters debacle.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 19, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions
Until the front office proves adept at drafting talent,
Are you talking about the same front office that did draft Lynch? You can’t say that they can’t draft good players so they should keep Lynch when they drafted Lynch.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Lynch was a no-brainer. He was considered the 2nd-best back that year, as it was.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 20, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
It’s when they seem to have to think about one player vs another where they seem to frizzle fry.
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"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am."
by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 20, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Players, not picks
I could see Buffalo trading Lynch for players who filled areas of need but not just for picks. I can see a team trading Lynch for a LB, someone along the lines of AJ Hawk—a LB who doesn’t really seem to fit the defense the team now runs. I can also see a team trading a young QB who hasn’t really seen the field but has potential to be a starter, someone like Leinart. It will surprise no one to read that I would love to see a Lynch trade bring a LT to Buffalo. Of course, I’m guessing that any legit LT trade would require sending more than just Lynch to the other team.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
check out this link
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/lb.html
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
by BRIANMULHALL on Dec 19, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
That link only means anything if the league and union agree to a new CBA. Most of those guys are going to be RFAs in the uncapped year.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 19, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
i know its the best link ive got tho for FA next yr
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
by BRIANMULHALL on Dec 21, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Try this.
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/12/16/1203828/2010-nfl-ufas
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 21, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Roulette...
keeping lynch means one bullet and two heads, by which i take your concerns about injury and say that by keeping two starting RBs you can deal with a blow like that… you need two good ones in today’s NFL, how many times have we seen this? it never hurts to have two (or more!) guys that can make plays.
now if teams are making us substantial offers, i would listen, but i think it sounds dumb to actively shop a 24 yr old pro-bowler.
Agree
I don’t understand sireric’s 3rd point as well. It is precisely due to injury risk that we should keep 2 RBs.
If the Front Office decides the team is in a rebuilding mode, then it is conceivable that you trade your pro-bowler to stock-pile more draft picks to build for the future. However, Lynch’s contract is not that crazy, so it’d take a really good offer for me to trade him.
Bills fan half way around the world
Agree
sireeric i know what ur point is getting burned by off the field stuff is the last thing this team needs but we need a two headed attack in the back field to be an effective team regardless of who is our starting QB they are gonna need a running game and we have the potential to be a good running team next year if we spend the off season making good moves
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
by BRIANMULHALL on Dec 19, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
By no means at all am I saying that the Bills should make Jackson a one man show. You are 100% correct when you say that you need two good DEPENDABLE RBs on your roster. I am saying that they should trade Lynch because he is no longer dependable, and acquire a replacement that is.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
So where is this replacement coming from? I would be VERY unhappy if they went into the draft trying to land a new back.
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"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am."
by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 19, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think they should get a Vet and a draftee. the draftee should be drafted around the 5th round or so.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I just don’t see what vet would replace Lynch. Who did you have in mind? The Bills have had terrible luck with late-round backs.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am."
by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 19, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
There will be a number of solid veteran options
who can come in and take carries behind Jackson. It’s not like Lynch has done anything this year that some veteran couldn’t do….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It’s not a great group of FA running backs, but there’s a few good options like Chester Taylor, Willie Parker or even Larry Johnson.
Buffalo could always go the really mediocre FA route and add a 3rd or 4th rounder. Guys like Aaron Stecker, the crappy Adrian Peterson, Chris Brown or Ahman Green.
You could see some decent guys get cut too. Fred Taylor or LaMont Jordan could be a good option if released.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I like Chester Taylor myself
Willie Parker, meh. He runs gingerly and is nowhere near the big play threat he used to be. His receiving skills are weak too.
LJ, no thanks. Put him behind an average or below average line and he’s useless.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
No trade....
Ralph just needs to hire Pac-man and his possie to bodyguard Lynch and keep him out of trouble during the offseason.
:-}
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Dec 19, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions
The Pirates of football
I couldn’t disagree any more with this post. Lynch’s value will never be lower than it is right now. Like you said, he’s one strike awauy from a year long ban and he also plays a position that is so abundant with talent that every team has 2-3 of them on their roster that contribute.
Let’s stop trading our few NFL-caliber players for draft picks starting now, please. This team has too many holes as it is. At one point, you need to dig in and actually start to build by adding talent instead of simply stockpiling picks and using them to replace the players you lost.
Bad comparison. The Pirates never develop good prospects to trade. They suck all around.
At one point, you need to dig in and actually start to build by adding talent instead of simply stockpiling picks and using them to replace the players you lost.
As true as that is, what good does Marshawn due this team sitting on the suspended list?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Re:
Actually, the Pirates are infamous for developing talent as a means to harness prospects via trade which they in turn develop as a means to trade for more prospects: Jason Bay, Jason Schmidt, Aramis Ramirez, Xavier Nady, Mike Gonzalez, Jack Wilson, Nate McLouth, Feddy Sanchez, Jason Kendall, Ian Snell, etc…that’s all they do over and over again. They develop young players and as they are about to reach free agency and get costly, they trade them for more prospects.
As awful as it would be for Lynch to miss a year due to suspension, it hasn’t happened yet. Would you be opposed to adding Peyton Manning to the team because he could conceivably tear his ACL in week one some year and you’d be without him for the season? This team needs to move away from playing scared on and off the field.
Jason Bay – came from the Mets organization
Jason Schmidt – Came form the Brave organization
Jack Wilson – came from the Cardinals
Xavier Nady – came from the Padres
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Jason Bay was San Diego, Nady was tne Mets
But the point is, Pittsburgh never gets out of their hole because they constantly trade away the talent they developed into being Major League caliber. Like I said, it’s a cycle that goes on and on and Bay, Schmidt, Wilson, and Navy were just the byproducts of trading away Brian Giles, Denny Neagle, Jason Christianson, Ollie Perez, etc. Again, at one point, you need to supplement rather than just patch holes.
Nady came from the Mets via San Diego they are the ones who drafted him. Bay was drafted by the Mets who traded him to San Diego who traded him to the Pirates.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I'd have to agree with Port Royal....
that we can’t be running scared. I would hope Marshawn has learned his lesson and is ready to become a man. His value is at it’s highest for the Bills (reasonable contract and a player reaching his prime) and his value is at it’s lowest on the market as Port Royal states above. I would be willing to listen to offers but you’d have to give me more in return. It would have to be a quality starting linebacker , DT, OT, or solid vet QB before I’d even consider pulling the trigger. We aren’t that far away from being a playoff caliber team as long as we get a shrewd GM in place soon.
Of course....
if Marshawn is sitting around pantsless this weekend, then I take back everything- LOL.
Your point here sums it up
Third: I said this before as a comment and I will repeat it here; You play Russian Roulette with players every time they step onto the field, whether it is practice, preseason, or regular season there is always a risk of injury that could put a player out for the season. Lynch’s legal troubles the last two years have essentially put another bullet in Lynch’s roulette gun. Most play with one bullet, Lynch has two.
YOU NEED TWO GOOD BACKS… KEEP THEM BOTH! I trust he will change his ways off the field. This guy is a player and one of our only talented players….Why get rid of him? I am sooooo sick of this same post week after week. How about we trade Byrd, he is talented and Whitner and Scott are capable players just like Fred. These posts are just dumb in my opinion cuz no one is getting traded. What is there like 2 trades a year maybe? There was one this year at the trade deadline. Our main focus should be helping this team and that happens by getting a stud left and right tackle and the offensive side of the ball. We also need good LB to fill the holes and stop the run! plain and simple.
I agree with...
the main theme of your post. Maybe not so much the opinions. Keep both backs and …
Our main focus should be helping this team and that happens by getting a stud left and right tackle and the offensive side of the ball. We also need good LB to fill the holes and stop the run! plain and simple.
Maybe not opinions ....
but comments. See sireric’s 12:10 AM post below. Don’t necessarily agree with your blocked quotes (in his post) but do agree with the main theme of your post .
YOU NEED TWO GOOD BACKS… KEEP THEM BOTH! I trust he will change his ways off the field. This guy is a player and one of our only talented players
This I agree with 100%. The main difference between sireric’s thoughts and mine are
I trust he will change his ways off the field.
I may regret saying that but I believe you have to take the risk.
I am sooooo sick of this same post week after week.
Where are you reading more trade Marshawn posts? Not here.
These posts are just dumb in my opinion cuz no one is getting traded. What is there like 2 trades a year maybe?
Actually there are player trades all the time in the off season. two is a pretty low estimate.
We need two good and DEPENDABLE backs, Lynch isn’t dependable.
How about we trade Byrd, he is talented and Whitner and Scott are capable players just like Fred.
Didn’t we talk about it last week where we said that when you make stupid analogies like this you lose credibility? I give you exhibit A.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
O here we go, 17 and 19 days ago
Squirmin thurman and Jaks bills fan wrote about the SAME THING. AND I also read the same crap week after week on twobillsdrive. Just look at the related posts
Actually there are player trades all the time in the off season
The Bills alone have traded for Stroud and Bledsoe while trading away Ko Simpson, John McCargo (which got voided), Jason Peters, McGahee, Travis Henry, Takeo Spikes, Kelly Holcomb and Darwin Walker. Trades happen. I’d almost be surprised if Buffalo didn’t add or move at least one player via trade this offseason. Obviously, it’s not likely that Marshawn gets traded, but it’s not so unlikely that it isn’t worth discussing.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I appreciate your concern for the Bills with regards to Lynch, but I would have to disagree with a trade proposal. Trading arguably your best player for a 3rd and 4th rounder is not good business.
If you put that man behind the Jets offensive line or any other line mediocre or better and his is easily a 1500 yard back. He is young with a very favorable contract. I would be looking for no less than 2 second rounders or a player of equal value on defense, (such as a starting OLB).
I understand you are not attacking his ability, but his off field issues. But I think he is through with his discretions. I think this year is a good enough wake up call for him.
When it comes to a third and final strike for a year ban, you have to do something supremely stupid. Pacman is the face of supremely stupid. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but the league did nothing to Merriman for the whole domestic abuse thing. and i believe he has 2 strikes. the league will be a touch more lax when it deals such a tremendous blow to a franchise.
*indiscretions (?)
also, with the whole 2 chambers instead of just one theory. You really cant tell who is going to be a good guy or a trouble maker off the field. You can just as easily draft a kid with the same problems. Look no further than Marvin Harrison. He had the good guy image to the T, and all of a sudden controversy erupts involving a shooting.
.You really cant tell who is going to be a good guy or a trouble maker off the field.
A guy who has been arrested TWO OFFSEASONS IN A ROW you can have a pretty good idea about.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I was referring to when you draft a kid out of college.
I am not saying Marshawn isn’t at fault or defending what he did. But I think (or maybe its just hope) that he finally gets it. I am aware and also scared of his possible next mistake, but I the risk/reward of trading him is too great for me.
by BillsfanDan on Dec 20, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Very few NFL players get actual suspensions. It’s not tough to draft somebody who won’t be suspended.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Great Post, One that needed to be exploited.
Because we were more average than the Vikings we ended up with Marshawn Vs Adrian. We both were tabbed as RB seekers in that years draft. There were two homeruns out there to be had and we grabbed the second one.
It’s very difficult to be objective here. So many average seasons, prompts so many negative responses, it kind of infiltrates through out the community here at rumblers. You argued the point well. I personally am not educated enough to articulate such points.
My bottom line is we need to keep Lynch. We tried to bring in a F/A in pre-training camp and ended up with Rhodes who was released. We tried to bring in Linebackers and were unable to land anyone worth making the team. My concern is that we currently employ two high quality RB’s and zero back ups. Omon may have not been an answer but he did provide depth. He to is gone. We will be drafting and soliciting FA this offseason heavy because we can’t go into next season with only two RB’s. Alot of the talk here about drafts and LB’s ,DT’s and OT’s miss this fact. We are extremely low at Depth at RB.
I for one have noticed a little change in Marshawn since Fewell handed the crown over to Freddy. This sent a very strong message to Marshawn and Marshawn’s personallity. Marshawn needs to be the life of the party for him to be all he can be. He is starting to realize this. He is starting to repond to this. He will come around and although this offseason scares me with him, I believe he will be back with a vengence next year and his stock will sore. We can thank Perry Fewell for this where ever he goes. I see Freddy being our third down back next season and a darn good one, play making type, but we need 100% Marshawn for this to happen, not a late round draft pick or a over paid FA.
All this talk about smoking pot and how many guns somebody owns. Let it go people. Half of you don’t know what your neighbors do or have.
Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!
by VanScottM on Dec 20, 2009 9:33 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
VSM....
I agree with your agrument more than I do sireric’s, but I think that the real issue here is that sireric states
I am a fan of Marshawn and would hate to see him leave and flourish somewhere else, but I don’t trust him, he hasn’t earned that. I would rather be safe then sorry, and that is why I would deal Marshawn Lynch.
I think the differences of opinion on this post center around the trust issue more than whether Marshawn is good enough to keep around or not. I’m on the trust side (holding my breath of course).
Somehow the blockquote was left out!
I agree with your agrument more than I do sireric’s, but I think that the real issue here is that sireric states
I am a fan of Marshawn and would hate to see him leave and flourish somewhere else, but I don’t trust him, he hasn’t earned that. I would rather be safe then sorry, and that is why I would deal Marshawn Lynch.
I think the differences of opinion on this post center around the trust issue more than whether Marshawn is good enough to keep around or not. I’m on the trust side (holding my breath of course).
Trade everyone you can.
This team is horrible. Scrap the whole thing.
by Circling Wagons on Dec 20, 2009 5:11 PM EST reply actions
wow, sireric
you really sparked an intense debate!!
Its tough to comment when most things have been said so I’ll just state my opinion:
Why ruin a good thing. We have Fred and Marshawn, two really talented and little mileage running backs. It was tough rotating them this year but we have a whole off-season to figure out how to use them effectively together now that we know what we have in Jackson. Our rush yards per average this year is pretty darn good. Lets keep em together.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Like every trade, whether or not this is a good idea is almost intirely about the value you could bring back in return and I’ve got no clue what Lynch’s trade value is.
I don’t think his poor season hurts his value much. I think that is being way overblown. We’re talking about NFL GMs and they’re considering way more than what Marshawn has produced statistically. It’s all about how Marshawn looks on film and I think he’s looked pretty good over the course of his career and has done enough this year to not hurt his trade value. I think his off field issues hurt his stock way more than this season does.
The other thing that could hurt his value is that very few teams actually need a running back. Seattle might want to pair an RB with Forsett, but who knows whether they think they can win now with Hasselbeck or whether it’s time to rebuild. Cleveland is an obvious candidate and they have a ton of picks in this spring’s draft. San Diego or Washington could trade their name backs and have a need. And that’s pretty much it.
The reason that very few teams need a RB is worth discussing and it’s because there’s an abundance of good backs in the league and you can find them in the middle rounds of the draft. Here’s the list of every RB drafted in the 3rd or 4th round recently:
2009
Shonn Greene, Glen Coffee, Mike Goodson
2008
Kevin Smith, Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice
2007
Lorenzo Booker, Tony Hunt, Michael Bush, Antonio Pittman, Dwayne Wright – maybe not the best year to grab an RB in the middle rounds
2006
Brian Calhoun, Jerrious Norwood, Michael Robinson, Leon Washington
2005
Frank Gore, Vernand Morency, Ryan Moats, Maurice Clarett-haha, Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Ciatrick Fason
If you could pick up a 3rd and a 4th rounder for Lynch, draft a replacement in the 4th round and use the money saved on the diffference between Lynch and a 4th rounder to sign a vet FA and still have an extra 3rd rounder to play with in this very deep draft, I’d take it.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
well it depends on how much of a betting man you are
Backs I wouldn’t mind behind Jackson from that list: Frank Gore, Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Jerious Norwood, Leon Washington, Kevin Smith, Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton, Tashard Choice.
Backs I would mind behind Jackson from that list: Shonn Greene, Glen Coffee, Mike Goodson, Lorenzo Booker, Tony Hunt, Michael Bush, Antonio Pittman, Dwayne Wright, Brian Calhoun, Michael Robinson, Maurice Clarett, Ciatrick Fason, Vernand Morency.
So that’s 9 guys I would like and 13 I wouldn’t. Even if you disagree with me on one or two of the guys and which list they should be on that still a flip of the coin. I’d rather stick it out with a talented young back like Marshawn.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Why wouldn't you like Shonn Greene
That kid is going to be a good player for the Jets. He’s looked good at times this year, but needs to hold onto the football. Mike Goodson also could be a player down the road too.
I wish this team had a big play back like Jamaal Charles. I love what that kid is showing he can do right now.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Im a bit leery of the fact that he had a lot of touches to really impress when Leon Washington went down and didnt look like anything special. He looked good at times and awful at times. Rookie running backs are the least inconsistent rookies of any position so that worries me a bit.
I agree on Jamaal Charles completely and think that his coming out party shows even futher how incompetent the chiefs are for not benching Larry Johnson for him until LJ forced his way out of town.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Greene is averaging 4.8 yards per carry and I think he stepped in for Washington pretty well. It’s the fumbles that have been a problem for him, but he looks like he’s got a bright future. Coffee looks just OK while Goodson had a huge preseason and hasn’t gotten a chance with Williams and Stewart in front of him.
If I were doing the would want vs. wouldn’t want thing, I wouldn’t count the rookies because I don’t think any of them have had the chance to really show what they could do with 120+ touches that a backup in a timeshare could get. So that makes it 9-10. I think Michael Bush is a really good back and Oakland is crazy for not giving him a much bigger workload, so that would make it 10-9 for me. You didn’t count Ryan Moats who isn’t terrible, but is more of a 3rd back so that’s 10-10, but I wouldn’t count Maurice Clarett because of how screwy of a pick that was. I didn’t even think he was going to get drafted, so back to 10-9 and, like you said, basically a coin flip.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
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