Michael Vick In Buffalo!
by P-Man on Dec 21, 2009 12:24 AM EST
150 comments
I Know Michael Vick was talking with the Bills before signing with Philly. I wish the Bills could get Tony Dungy to coach and then deal to get Vick so the 2 of them can continue to work together. Dungy can focus on the offense and Fewell can go back to running the defense. Maybe T.O.. will stick around and work with Vick. He has always supported him. We could give Philly Lynch. They need a solid running back as badly as we need a QB who has leadership qualities. say what you want about Vick and the dogs, but Vick is tough, and I think the offense would be exciting to watch. Is there a more boring team in the NFL then Buffalo? Watching them in Prime time against the Jets was pure punishment to the nation. Our Defense is solid and plays hard. our offense is just about the worst in the league. Vicks ability to avoid the pash rush and an improved offensive line with our talented receivers and Jackson as our RB would be fun to watch. As ir is now, no Bills games will be in prime time next year and fans will stay away from The Ralph in droves. Adding Vick will be a huge move to stir up excitement in Buffalo and at least make the Bills fun to watch again. I know we need a lot more then this to compete for a Super Bowl, but I think we are heading in the wrong direction as things stand now. Lets do something soon. I fear the bills will leave Buffalo when Ralph dies unless we turn things around quick. And nobody deserves a Super bowl like Ralph Wilson, and the great fans of the Buffalo Bills.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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I like it and I thought the same thing
I had the same thought after the game. Vick to Buffalo, and T.O will stay. I am almost betting that this happens.
One, because we need a Q.B, and right now, he is the best option in my opinion. – I also do think we should draft one or see how Brohm does behind Vick. This will let are other Q.B of the future to have time to develop while Vick gives us the best chance to win.
Two, Because this may keep T.O in Buffalo, which will in turn sell out tickets. Having him and Vick will be like getting T.O this past offseason. Without T.O, this year would have been a big disappointment ticket sales wise. They have to bring in someone or somebody to coach to sell tix next year.
Three, with this horrible line, a scrambling Q.B might just be the answer until the O-line can solidify. There is young talent on that line that will hopefully develop in a year or two.
funny
There have been 10x more posts like this popping up around here, yet you don’t get sick of these….odd no?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I know I am sick of them.
No offense P-man, but I don’t even read them anymore. I just skip to the comments to see if someone’s head has exploded.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
You know whats funny?????
There has been ACTUAL ties to Mike Vick before the season started. So talking about him as an option seems pretty relevant. Going off and making absurd claims that we should trade Lynch is another thing. Vick “was” contacted by the Bills, and for our sake hopefully he is the Q.B next year cuz he is much better than all three of our QB’s combined.
Funny
You say you are sick of the few Lynch topics there have been because you don’t agree with them and they are absurd, yet another Vick topic, which you agree with is something we should all talk about??
Isn’t it a bit more absurd to be talking about a guy that is under contract with another franchise for next year?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
its an optional year, he could opt out and he WILL opt out if a team offers him something cuz he wants to play.
I believe that's a team option for the second year
Vick doesn’t have much say over whether they pick it up or not
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
O is that true, cuz i thought it was just an optional year. Isn’t Lynch’s last year optional if he wants to leave. I thought it was kind of the same thing. Well, in that case, you’re right, he prob won’t go anywhere.
It’s for a ton of cash though, so Philly probably won’t pick it up.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
But now Vick is under contract by the Eagles and can’t be contacted by the Bills until the offseason (when Lynch could also be traded) and therefore it’s as relevant as trading Lynch.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 22, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
I messed up. The Bills can contact the Eagles in the offseason. Not Vick. At least not until the Eagles cut him.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 22, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Vick to Buffalo, and T.O will stay
Why would any WR want to play with Vick? The Falcons spent three first round picks on WRs (MIchael Jenkins, Roddy White and Peerless Price) and none of them did particularly good with Vick.
Fun fact, TO is on pace this season to produce about what Vick’s most most productive WRs did in terms of yards. Falcons leading WRs with Vick:
2002 – Brian Finneran – 56 catches – 838 yards
2003 – Peerless Price – 64 – 838
2004 – Peerless Price – 45 – 575
2005 – Brian Finneran – 50 – 611
2006 – Roddy White – 30 – 506
2009 – TO (extrapolated to 16 games) – 54 – 829
WRs don’t want to play with Michael Vick unless they love having to play to every whistle, constantly looking back to the QB because they have to break off a third of their routes and head to the sideline, catching inaccurate passes and watching the QB scramble while they run wide open down the field.
This will let are other Q.B of the future to have time to develop while Vick gives us the best chance to win
Vick might actually give Buffalo the best chance to win. Especially if the Bills have a solid defense next year. If the goal is to make the playoffs in the next two years, then I wouldn’t mind rolling the dice with Vick. If the goal is to build towards a Super Bowl and develop a young QB behind Vick, I think it’s a terrible plan. Vick needs an offensive scheme and personel tailored to his specific and unique skill set. So the offensive line you build in front of Vick might not be the best offensive line for a pocket QB. And you want big weapons and/or deep threats to take advantage of Vick’s arm strength while covering for his inaccuracy and regular throws while scrambling. Another QB might excel with timing and route running. You want to develop the young QB in the scheme that he will be playing with and you can’t do that Vick.
Without T.O, this year would have been a big disappointment ticket sales wise.
That’s just plain not true. They were ahead of where they were the previous year in season ticket sales before signing TO. They weren’t going to have any ticket issues this year and I don’t think they will next year. We’re already looking at a new HC, top 10 pick, a young QB will probably be taken somewhere and changes in the FO seem likely. I think a new head coach and the roster turnover that follows along with a loyal fanbase will lead to Buffalo selling out most or all of their games next year.
Three, with this horrible line, a scrambling Q.B might just be the answer until the O-line can solidify
I think it’s a myth that a scrambling QB does better behind a bad OL. Vick had good offensive lines in Atlanta and got sacked a ton. I think the best thing for a bad OL is a good QB, so that the OL knows how much time he needs and where he is going to be at all times. Do the Saints really have a good OL? Is Jermon Bushrod – Carl Nicks – Jonathon Goodwin – Jahri Evans, Jon Stinchcomb a good OL? Or is at an average line that has an easy job blocking for a QB with great pocket presence and decision making. Matt Cassel is on pace to be sacked three times more than last season. And that’s without Wes Welker getting open in a hurry and Randy Moss being able to bail him out with jump balls. New England’s line is very average, but Tom Brady gets rid of the football, Matt Cassel doesn’t.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Dec 21, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
one thing to add though
Trading Lynch for anything less than a 1st round pick and more is crazy talk!
I don’t think the Bills have any intention of trading him or Fredie. I think they gave Fredie the starts and playing time to save the mileage on Lynch so he’s good to go from day 1 next year.
I think they gave Fredie the starts and playing time to save the mileage on Lynch so he’s good to go from day 1 next year.
??? He missed the first 4 games of the year. How many more snaps do they need to give him off to keep him fresh? I have never heard of an NFL team not using a player so they will be 100% the following year.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Yeah, Jackson has gotten the touches because he’s been the better player this season.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Trading Lynch for anything less than a 1st round pick and more is crazy talk!
Trading Lynch for a 1st round pick and more is indeed crazy talk! Realistically, we should hope for a 3rd and change if he were to be traded.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Seriously? New England's line is very average????????
i would have not got my tix again if they hadn’t got T.O. Dont play dumb and say he had nothing to do with it. I know a bunch of us who renewed them only for that reason. I promised myself if Dick was still the coach do not buy them… I should have listened to myself.
Funny, New Englands line is average. Have you watched them the last 10 years. Brady has at least 6-15 sec to throw the ball, thats y he is considered soooo good. Cassel looked just as good as Brady did. When you have all day to throw the ball anyone could be good, even a high school QB. Get Pressure on Brady and he is terrible. Remember the superbowl he lost? And he was god awful this past game. He throws 1 yard screen passes or 3 yard drag routes to Wes Welker and the receiver does the rest. All the superbowls he won before with average players was due to COACHING. He threw a million dinky screens and there GREAT line were able to man handle anyone. I could tell you 10 QB’s Id rather have than Brady.
Do you do it intentionally?
Why do you totally ignore what people say and just make some comment that’s not even related to anything said by who you are responding to?
Dont play dumb and say he had nothing to do with it.
That’s not what kaiser was saying at all. He said that the Bills were already ahead of last year’s season ticket sales pace at the time of TO’s signing. That’s been talked about before. There wasn’t going to be an issue selling tickets this season. Adding TO obviously brought a spike in interest, but they were doing just fine before he was signed. Ignoring that is just disregarding the truth.
All the superbowls he won before with average players was due to COACHING.
Yup, Brady had nothing to do with it. He was just a mindless droid that Belichick treated as a marionette en route to 3 SB Titles!!
I could tell you 10 QB’s Id rather have than Brady.
Who? Good luck getting many people to agree with even five guys….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Big Ben, Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, D. Mcnabb, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Jay Cutler. O.K so 9 that I can think of. All these Q.B’s are much more talented than Brady. No, they probably won’t win more superbowls than him, but point is their coaching and scheme won those superbowls, not Tom F’in Brady. Did you watch how bad he was last game. I cannot believe he is even put in the same category as P. Manning. Manning is the best Q.B that has ever played the game, plain and simple. Without T. Brady, the pats are just as good or a tad worse. Did they really miss a beat last year? 11-5. Whats gonna be their record this year with Tom? Perhaps the same thing?
Jay Cutler is 24th in the league with a 71.1 QB rating. behind such greats as Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell, and Chad Henne. He also leads the league with25 interceptions. Yeah he’s wonderful.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
You must have lost it....
Carson Palmer? Eli? Matt Ryan? JAY CUTLER!?!?!
Be realistic here. Do you actually believe that or are you just saying it to say it?
I’m sorry, I don’t base an opinion of a guy on one game like you seem to do. OK, Brady had a bad game against us, but it’s not like he’s had more than one or two of those a year. He’s been dominant for nearly a decade now. I’ve watched Brady throughout his career absolutely shred teams with precise passing and timely throws. I guess any old scrub could have thrown 50 TD’s in 2007 due simply to coaching. Riiiiiight.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I do believe it, and I forgot Aaron Rodgers, so that makes 10. I dont count screen passes and 3 yard drag routes to Wes Welker as a QB that shreds a D. Or the occasional bomb to the best receiver maybe every in NFL history. Most QB’s can throw a screen, a 3 yard drag to Welker or a deep bomb to Moss, that moss catches with One hand. If brady was good he would have hit Moss deep twice last game where he was wide open. He UNDERTHREW him twice, one resulted in a pass interference and the other was broken up by florence. There were terribly under thrown balls, I was sitting at the 50 yard line 20 rows up in my dads seats last game….nice
On passes thrown 11+ yards down field this season (through 13 games unless noted)
Drew Brees has a 117.16 rating (14 games)
Donovan McNabb has a 112.73 rating (12 games)
Brett Favre has a 98.24 rating (14 games)
Tom Brady has a 96.85 rating
Peyton Manning has a 94.06 rating (14 games)
Eli Manning has a 93.97 rating
Phillip Rivers has a 93.82 rating
Kurt Warner has a 92.84 rating
Ben Roethlisberger has an 88.48 rating (12 games)
Aaron Rodgers has an 86.85 rating
Carson Palmer has a 74.49 rating
Jay Cutler has a 61.61 rating
Matt Ryan has a 52.95 rating (12 games)
I don’t know, but to me, he looks like he’s one of the best at picking apart the defense in intermediate and deeper routes.
If brady was good he would have hit Moss deep twice last game where he was wide open.
Good lord buddy. A QB can’t miss a pass every now and then? Peyton Manning has thrown 2+ interceptions in four of his last six games. He must stink too.
Does it matter that he’s had a nicked up right shoulder and right hand for a few weeks now? I’m sure that has nothing to do with how he plays.
I don’t even know why I’m defending Tom F’in Brady, but the fact that you can’t even give him credit for his success and the Patriots success is just ridiculous.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Dec 22, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OMg he always has a nicked up shoulder. Do you just listen to ESPN and regurgitate what they say. They also think he is in the same level as P. Manning, HE IS NOT.
The guy is average. It helps when you have a WR that does not drop anything and makes crazy catches between three guys 50 yards down the field. That helps your average.
O i think he has been on the injury report for 4 years now.
Do you just listen to ESPN and regurgitate what they say
Actually, I think he just copy and pasted that list of QB ratings for passes longer than 10 yards off of Around the Horn.
And I lover your jump from, he’s not Peyton Manning to the guy is average. Clearly, there’s no middle ground between the two.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
You don’t need to be condescending. Kurupt is a very intelligent football fan and he and I have had our arguments over the year that I’ve been here but he always backs it up with good points, like he is doing on this thread.
Your point that his WRs and OL are great which makes him bad are purely opinion. You’re allowed to have them. Just don’t expect everyone to agree with you.
Peyton Manning has had one Hall of Fame WR in Marvin Harrison and two other excellent options in Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark. The Bills have a Hall of Fame Terrell Owens and a very highly respected Lee Evans and the Bills QBs don’t look awesome.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 22, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Peyton Manning has had one Hall of Fame WR in Marvin Harrison
because of Peyton – he’d be pretty mediocre if it wasn’t for Peyton. Look what he’s doing with the rookies – the guys the best QB of all time
Never put salt in your eyes
Scott Loffler should be the next Bills GM
by J2 on Dec 23, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
The guy was saying Brady is great because of his receivers. Welker and Moss were average at best in their last stops and when they got hooked up with Brady have been great. Moss was great before, granted, but can you really say Manning created Harrison?
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 23, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
but can you really say Manning created Harrison
I think i just did
Never put salt in your eyes
Scott Loffler should be the next Bills GM
by J2 on Dec 23, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
let me clarify a little:
obviously he had talent or he wouldn’t be in the league – but he most likely wouldn’t be HOF material without Peyton throwing him the ball.
he’s not overly tall and has good but not great speed – he has good hands. same thing can be said about a lot of NFL receivers.
Look at Lee Evans – he’s pretty darn mediocre – if he were on the Colts he’d probably be a HOF’r because of Peyton.
i meant that manning created Harrisons HOF status
Never put salt in your eyes
Scott Loffler should be the next Bills GM
by J2 on Dec 23, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
Well I disagree. But that’s OK. :-)
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 23, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
think of it this way – actually we have a good comparison on our roster – Lee Evans
Lee and Harrison are pretty similar – they are essentially the same height and both catch the ball really well – Lee is faster but that’s not really an issue.
if you were to swap those 2 players over the course of their career would you say that Lee is a HOF player on the Colts? I would say that the combination of Manning/Evans over their careers would be right in the same neighborhood as Manning/Harrison. remember – Harrison and Manning have had the same o-coordinator, been in the same system and have played together for 12 years – a lot of continuity helps.
Lee has the talent to be that good in that offense.
now if you were to look at the Bills with Harrison would he do enough by himself to garner HOF consideration? that’s what HOF players do – they make everyone around them better – essentially change the game. I don’t think he would do that in a Bills uniform.
Harrison would be a average to above average WR without Manning – he’d be lumped in there with all sorts of guys.
i’ve watched Harrison a ton over his career – I see guys like moss, rice, carter – those guys can dictate what a defense does – I don’t see Harrison doing that without Manning.
Currently – Manning is doing what he did with Harrison with Wayne or Clark for that matter. Manning elevates the players around him – he essentially turns them into elite players. obviously clark and wayne are good anwyays – but Manning gives them that extra little bit that makes them elite.
ever watch some of the throws Manning completes? he puts it in spots that only the receiver can catch and on time – i’m sure Lee Evans would catch 100+ TDs in 12 years with Manning – would that make him a HOF player? it might stats wise – but not in the changing of the game way like a manning does or else we’d see him dominate on a crappy team like the Bills
Never put salt in your eyes
Scott Loffler should be the next Bills GM
I’m not arguing Lee Evans wouldn’t be good with Manning because as you said, they all do. But Harrison was great at getting open and creating a spot for himself where Manning could throw it and the defenders couldn’t get it. They both helped each other.
The guy above said Moss and Welker made Brady good. His OL made him good. I disagree with that. Do you have an issue with that?
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 23, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
well kind of – I don’t really see Brady in the same shiney light that most people see him. I think he’d be pretty average without Bellichick to be honest
The way I try to evaluate individual players is how they would do on other teams that aren’t as good. would Brady be as good on the Bills? probably not – last year they won 11 games without him – you can argue schedule – but it’s tough to win any game in the NFL – just ask the Bills. they won 17 the year before and were high flying – but Brady didn’t do that until Moss and Welker were there.
i’m not saying he’s not a good QB – because he is – but I don’t think he’s in Mannings class because he’s alone in his class. manning calls his own plays and is essentially an OC on the field and right now he’s got rookie WRs.
moss and welker didn’t make Brady good – but they made everyone gaga over him
Never put salt in your eyes
Scott Loffler should be the next Bills GM
by J2 on Dec 23, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Harrison was great at getting open and creating a spot for himself where Manning could throw it and the defenders couldn’t get it
I don’t agree with that at all – actually couldn’t agree less with it. watch Manning now if you get the chance – he’s doing that multiple times a game with all of his receivers.
he’s the reason
Never put salt in your eyes
Scott Loffler should be the next Bills GM
by J2 on Dec 23, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Brady’s stats before Moss and Welker arrived in 2007:
95 Games, 1895 completions, 3061 attempts, 62% completion, 21,588 yards, 227 yards/game, 7.0 yards/attempt, 147 TDs, 78 INTs, and a QB rating of approximately 88.48.
That’s pretty ridiculous even without Moss and Welker and especially since his best WR was Troy Brown.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
by thatguy34 on Dec 22, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oye
Yes, I regurgitate everything I see on ESPN. Brett Favre is God! LeBron James is the best basketball player of all time! The Bills, the who?
Funny that Brady has missed practices lately because of his hand and shoulder. I’m not saying the reason he played poorly in ONE game is because he was injured.
Do you even bother reading posts and replies? It’s as if you see one shiny comment and are totally attracted to that while disregarding everything else.
If Randy Moss was making crazy catches 50 yards downfield every time, wouldn’t they do that play 5-10 times a game???
And just for fun, Brady has just 2 completions on passes thrown over 41 yards this year, so that kind of debunks your Randy Ratio theory as to why Brady looks good on deep passes. One was a deep ball against Miami in which Brady got crunched by two defenders and threw a perfect pass to Moss in stride 50 yards downfield. Yeah, that guy is totally average.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
when he threw 50 tds that year, Moss caught a crazy load of deep passes. I am not saying Brady is horrible, he is not, I am just saying he is no where near Mannings talent, and I would rather have 10 other Q.B’s in the league. I am sorry if you don’t agree but thats how i feel. I think Brady is average and you think he is great and thats fine. I also wass not trying to be condescending so sorry if that came off wrong. I like having these conversations and you are knowledgeable its just we disagree on maybe this in Maybin. But lets remember, we are on the same team.
Did you see that scene in Scanners when that dude’s head blew up/a>?
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
I believe that you forgot Mark Sanchez
and Josh Freeman and Ryan Fitzpatrick and JP Losman and any other QB listed on Wikipedia’s NFL QB page.
by twoeightnine on Dec 22, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
theres a difference between the scrubs you mentioned and the good NFL QB’s i mentioned. so that was a great comment you just posted.
You mentioned
Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer and Jay Cutler. Good QB’s?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Eli? Wow, your really digging into the bottom of the barrell there kid, he cannot throw in bad wind conditions
his balls die when the wind whips in the Meadowlands. Brady can chunk it through any weather.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
O and they cheated to win those superbowls, another reason why I do not respect Brady and their coaching staff. I could get a 100% on every test if I knew the questions.
No, they probably won’t win more superbowls than him, but point is their coaching and scheme won those superbowls,
I do not respect Brady and their coaching staff.
?????
Wow…just wow.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Dec 22, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Recappotamus.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 22, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
y wow, they cheated. And they’re totally not professional. Belichek is a huge D bag. He won’t even shake coaches hands after a game. I absolutely hate the patriots, I am sorry
I think he said “wow” because of the incredibly massive contradiction you provided in those two statements. Kind of work against each other.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 22, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
well its nullified by them cheating. They won the superbowls cuz they cheated and got away with it. Brady didn’t win them, their coaching staff did a great job of cheating and working hard to win the superbowls. They knew where all the blitzes were coming from. I remembered watching a post interview with an eagles DB. He said, “it was like they knew are every move, every blitz, and they countered it perfectly. Then he praised them for their coaching, when in reality, it was them cheating.”
I hate them also, but I respect them. and you can;t tell me that the cheating that they did is the sole reason why they won those superbowls. Did it help? That is debatable but I would say that it had to help at least a little or else they wouldn’t have done it. Those were some pretty talented teams however, and I don’t think they would have lost those Superbowls without the video taping that they did.
Brady may be overrated a little, but he is still a top 5 QB in the NFL.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Look at them now that they cannot cheat, they are falling off the radar. There defense was very good, and that helped them win superbowls. There offense was very average. I mean, D. Patten, Kevin Faulk, and that other really old receiver, I cant remember his name. Dieon Branch was the only solid player on that offense
and that other really old receiver, I cant remember his name.
Troy Brown
Or the whole team has gotten older and there has been a mass exodus. You can’t lose executives like Thomas Dimitroff and Scott Pioli, and players like Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison, Asante Samuel, Junior Seau, Richard Seymour, and coaches like Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weiss, Josh McDaniel, and Eric Mangini and not expect some drop off.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
right, their defense was very good, but their offense was very mediocre at best. But the cheating helped their offense. Throwing screens were blitzes were coming from and things like that. There was a a reason all those tapes were burnt or whatever. You realize if there was nothing bad on those tapes, it wouldnt have been a big deal. but no, they threw them out and said, “there is nothing on those tapes.” I believe this league is rigged to a certain extent trying to put the “big money” teams in the playoffs. There were some real bad calls last game. Schobel’s head was almost tooken off and the ref was lookin right at him. then schobel showed him on the big screen and the ref just walked away. I mean, come on, seriously? Every year the Pats get these bogus calls
Cheating, blitzes, etc
Do you really think teams run the same exact blitzes out of the same exact defensive alignment? They have different play calls for each alignment, just like an offense does. There is no way the Pats knew every play that was coming their way. That’s absolutely ridiculous to believe such.
I see you are a conspiracy theorist. Makes sense.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
If 9-5 is falling off the radar, then I hope Buffalo falls off the fricking radar.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 22, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Last I checked
they still had to make the plays.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Brady has at least 6-15 sec to throw the ball
Dude, nobody has 15 seconds to throw. Ever.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Losman thought he did.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 22, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAH nice one!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Dont play dumb and say he had nothing to do with it
What K said. Buffalo was well ahead of where they were the last couple seasons before they signed TO and they didn’t have any problems selling out the last couple years. He definitely provided a boost, but I think they would have sold out all their games anyways.
Funny, New Englands line is average
I’ll need to clarify that because by average, I mean that they are literally average. Like, in the middle of the league. For me, average doesn’t mean bad, it means average.
Brady has 6-15 seconds? You’re serious? I don’t think I’ve ever once seen a QB take 15 seconds to throw the ball on any level of football. And I love how you then point out that the Giants dominated that OL in the Super Bowl. Great argument, Brady always has at least six seconds and the Giants got a ton of pressure on him. Makes perfect sense.
And every QB is going to struggle with extreme amounts of pressure. Drew Brees and the Saints got crushed by Dallas, must be because Brees stinks or is only good because of his coaching or some other ridiculous thing.
Cassel looked just as good as Brady did
Cassel got sacked more than any QB in the league last year. It’s part of the reason why I think they’re such an average group. If Cassel was as good as Brady because of coaching, why did he get sacked twice as much as Brady does? Why did get Cassel get sacked at all if that line gave him 6-15 seconds to throw the ball? Cassel got sacked 47 times. If he finishes strong, he could get sacked fewer times this year behind a Chiefs line that is considered terrible and lacks receviing options then he could with the magic 6-15 second line and those great WRs and coaches.
I think the Pats have a good run blocking line, but those Cassel sacks are pretty meaningful to me. Brady has only been sacked 15 times so far this season, but over the last 5 or so years, he takes 150% of the sacks that the other elite poclet passers (Manning and Brees) take. Manning and Brees are typically in the mid to high teens while Brady has been in the mid 20s in sacks. Although, I can’t figure out how Brady spent so many seasons taking 26 sacks if all he does is throw screen passes while his line gives him 6-15 seconds on every pass.
You also see a ton of improvement for all young QBs as they get older in the sack department and Brady is the perfect example. Check out his career stats, they go from 41 sacks in his first season starting to the 30s, then mid 20s, low 20s and 15 so far this year. Probably because the OL and coaching got better though, right? The best QBs aren’t the best because they play behind the best lines. It’s because they make quick reads and decisions and get the ball out on time.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Cassel got the same wins they did last year than they will probably get this year, thats why Cassel is just as good in my opinion.
So then isn’t Kyle Orton just as good as Jay Cutler who you claim is better than Brady? Is Peyton Manning this year better than Peyton Manning last year? The Jets are 7-7 after going 9-7 last year, is Sanchez almost as good as Favre? The team might have done as well record wise, but last year the AFC East got the joke of a division known as the AFC West and New England’s offensive numbers went way down from the record setting year before (they scored 11 fewer points per game and passed for 70 fewer yards per game). And even with Brady returning from that injury, the passing numbers are back up 50 yards per game over last year. I’ll never understand the way that people use W-L records they way they do to evaluate QBs.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Cassel had great stats and hence why he got a 60 mill dollar contract. The team really didn’t miss a beat without Brady. They weren’t allowed to cheat anymore and that was the problem
What are you talking about?!?!
The team really didn’t miss a beat without Brady.
Did you not read what kaiser wrote there? 11 points per game, and 70 fewer passing yards per game is “not missing a beat”???
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Huh?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Broken record argument I believe.
It’s right twice a day or something. I dunno, I mix up my metaphors easily when the oxygen has been sucked out of the room.
by twoeightnine on Dec 22, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 22, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
They went 17-0 in 2008, 11-5 in 2009. Cassell’s no Brady.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 22, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget the games against the crappy NFC West last year too
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Oh yeah. haha, what a joke of a schedule. And the Bills went ….. 7-9!
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Really?
That’s all it takes to make a determination about how good a QB is for you?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Roethlisberger and Rodgers play behind pretty awful OLs. Along with Buffalo and a couple other teams, they’re probably in the bottom five offensive lines in the league. Kurt Warner has a below average OL too.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Dec 22, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
those are a few exceptions but for the most part, having a good offensive line helps more than it hurts.
"Look at the best Q.B’s, they all have "average" to great lines."
You say that right above this comment, and then say there are exceptions?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
And you said ALL of the best quarterbacks
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
2 of the top 10 QBs in the league is a lot.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 22, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
And I think Roethlisberger and Rodgers are both fringy top 5 guys.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
And as you said yesterday
Brees’ OL isn’t a bunch of Pro Bowlers either.
Warner’s OL is rather atrocious, too.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Cany anyone say?
Warner’s OL is rather atrocious, too.
Mike Gandy?
He was such an awful slug with us.
Amazed he is still in the NFL.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 23, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
The guy who has replaced him
is much worse too.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
to your point, "the best QBs aren't the best becausse they play behind the best lines but the make quick reads"
Do you honestly think Tom Brady or P. Manning would do great behind our Offensive line, Cuz I beg to differ.
Well you can’t just plug a QB into any team and expect the same results immediately.
manning has his offense working like a Swiss watch, because everyone is on the same page. switching O-Line would hurt mainly because they wouldn’t be on the same page.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I agree
As much as I hate the idea it needs to be done. If we get vick for a pick or player then we can focus on a Tackle in the draft and the LB in the secound round. As I watched the game today i was amazed at how fast our line broke down. I understand that we are playing backups but we need alot of help there.
Are you kidding?
Dungy can focus on the offense and Fewell can go back to running the defense.
Dungy focus on offense?
This is the same guy run out of TB because he had a great D but lousy offense.
Gruden came to TB and fixed the offense and won a superbowl with Brad Johnson.
Dungy moved on to Indianapolis, where he inhereted a great offense where he fixed the DEFENSE just enough to win a superbowl.
I don’t know where you are coming from saying Dungy could fix the Offense.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 21, 2009 4:02 AM EST reply actions
Yes. This.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 22, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely dead on reading of Dungy's career.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
Why would TO stick around for Vick just because he said he did his time?
Vick is a worse passing QB than Fitzpatrick. He’d basically be playing out his career saying it’s only for the money.
i dunno, i saw the last game when he threw a 50 yard lazer on the run to D. Jackson. Pretty impressive to me.
Hahahahahahahahah.
That was sarcasm right? One completion makes him awesome? I guess Fitz’s 99 yard TD to TO makes him a hall of famer. BTW, not all black QBs and WRs are the same players. Vick has 86 yards passing on the season (and is completing less than half of all his passes) and exactly half of that came on a 43 yard completion to Reggie Brown three games ago. It also did not come on the run, it was a bootleg that he had two to three steps to step into and lobbed it down the field forcing his receiver (who was Brown, not Jackson) to wait for the pass and almost have it intercepted by two Falcons.
by twoeightnine on Dec 22, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You don’t even know what play it was and now he had two wide open options?
by twoeightnine on Dec 22, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously not.
You said it was last game. Vick didn’t even throw a pass in the last game. You said it was 50 yards. His longest pass on the season is 43 yards. You said it was Desean Jackson. That pass went to Reggie Brown. Jackson’s longest reception from Vick was 32 yards or just a little bit over half of 50. It was also a play where Vick dropped back and stayed in the pocket so that would rule out the laser on the run part.
by twoeightnine on Dec 22, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Than I mispoke but I watched the game and 43 is pretty darn close for estimating 50. Sorry I dont have all day to look up the exact yardage of a pass that happened a couple weeks ago. Vick did a quick play action and faked it like he was going to run like he usually does, rolled out right a bit and threw it “about” 50 yards on a dart down to the 10 yard like or so. that was the play, and I think it was against the giants. They were away at their stadium, it was cold, and it was the game were Jacobs had a 60 or so yard screen pass right?? i did watch to game.
Nope. Still wrong.
Vick rolled to the left on a bootleg, not a run and then lobbed the ball into double coverage for 43 yards.
Or against the Giants he rolled right slightly and then hit Jackson for 32 yards, which is not pretty damn close to 50.
by twoeightnine on Dec 22, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
and one completion doesnt make him awsome. Never said he was awesome. But he is a lot better than our QB’s. He also made the pro bowl a couple times and the playoffs something our pathetic savior Trent was supposed to do. Was it a coincidence that I said Trent would never be good with this team? No it wasn’t. Its not hard to pick out the great Q.Bs in the league. Vick is not one of them, no, but he is better than what we have.
Philly has LeSean McCoy.......
he’s more than solid as a RB.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 21, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions
Even if they needed a running back, I’d much rather have Kolb.
by BillieverSince89 on Dec 21, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
How is he better?
Because he is younger?
by Brennan McCoy on Dec 21, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
QB
Hey what about Jeff Garcia? For a yr or two ?
Pass.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 22, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Tading Lynch for Vick
What is wrong with you people ,yes lynch is having an off year and fred jackson is having a better year.You want to trade lynch for another bust QB vick is not the same and he is not the anser.We need alot more than that , In the NFL these days you have to have two good backs you have them in place why take that away. You ranted and raved about him his rookie year but after that well , every time you suggest to trade him i dont know what you are thinking.He is a first round pick and you want to trade for a QB that has alot to prove since his return. This must go with the peters trade from last year.Why would you get rid of one of the few bright spots on our team (when the line blocks).
I would trade Lynch, but not for Vick. Vick could be had for far less.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
.....
Why would you get rid of one of the few bright spots on our team (when the line blocks).
So he’s only successful behind a good OL? How does that make him a must-keep commodity?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Well, in my mind, that’s a really complicated question. Because it’s such a team sport, it’s tough to separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of player value. Really, other than maybe Barry Sanders, what RB had great success behind an awful OL?
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 22, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
This insane post does not qualify a response....
But I cannot resist.
No, no, and no.
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Dec 21, 2009 10:27 PM EST reply actions
this post
has turned into the most inept conversation i have ever seen on this website. and that is saying a heck of a lot. here’s my two cents.
comparing brady to eli manning, aaron rodgers and JAY FREAKIN CUTLER! is ridiculous. honestly though, JAY FREAKIN CUTLER!
A lot of the quarterbacks you named minus favre and C.Palmer are young. And the two of those only have two less Superbowl rings than Tom Brady. Matty Ice Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers are damn good but still unproven. Tom Brady is miles away from them and likely always will be. You shouldn’t let a man’s good looks, hot wife, and team that he plays for blind you in recognizing your watching a living legend play the game. Granted he has a lot of talent around him, but that is football folks. Its a team game.
The Patriots are still the Patriots man, get over it. They went 11-5 and missed the playoffs last year? LOL I’d take that in B-LO. Plus, they’ll win the division this year.
There defense is aging true, but look at their draft picks in the last few years. Notice a theme? Defense indeed. Oh yeah, and they boast a plethora of top 100 picks in this upcoming draft. To even think that they are on the decline is unfounded. The thing is they aren’t perfect anymore, and teams that they used to bowl over (MIAMI and BUFFALO) are bucking up and fighting back. The Patriots might not be infallible, but noone wants to play them in January. That’s respect.
Oh, and to address the post, No way Michael Vick. If we signed him after he was cut I wouldn’t mind. But leveraging a strong suit on your team (running back) to patch over another is the Madden way of building a team. There’s no reset button in real life. Let’s go to free agency and drafting to fix our problems.
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Dec 23, 2009 12:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm, Agreed, Agreed, Agreed and ohhhh Agreed, well put
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
your right
this has degenerated rapidly. I’ve said for the past three seasons now that i didnt think Tom Brady was a top 2 QB. I personally believe that Peyton Manning is the best football player ever, and that Drew Brees is the number 2 guy in the league. Big Ben is a close three but I give the edge to Brady. I can understand arguements that hes not even the best QB of his day, because I agree with them, but to say the guy is not a great QB is just not right.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
At this time.
I would say the top five QBs in the league are
- Peyton Manning
- Drew Brees
- Tom Brady
- Phillip Rivers
- Big Ben.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 23, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
There defense is aging true, but look at their draft picks in the last few years. Notice a theme? Defense indeed. Oh yeah, and they boast a plethora of top 100 picks in this upcoming draft. To even think that they are on the decline is unfounded.
It’s about losing leadership from the front office, coaching staff, and veteran players. I don’t think anybody is naive enough to think that you just plug a rookie, no matter when he was drafted, into the line-up and expect him to adequately replace a guy like Bruschi or Seymour. Just like when Pioli and Dimitroff left…who replaced them? That is a two very talented minds gone from the front office to lose. Are they in decline? Maybe not but they are definitely in a lull until those guys can be adequately replaced.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
The only thing I would disagree with is.
and Philip Rivers are damn good but still unproven
I think Rivers has entered into the elite QB conversation.
He really is getting good, without elite recievers outside of Antonio Gates.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 23, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I stabbed a man in the heart, with a TRIDENT!
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
"Well, I'm not even sure that's a crime anymore. There've been a lot of changes in the law. "
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
You better find a place to lay low for a while Brick, maybe with a relative
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
if they go 11-5,
and then win the division this year, to call them on the decline, is unfounded. lull? i would love to win the division even if my team was in a lull. lol to the lull. find me some evidence that they still can’t win. in the words of ralph wiggum “that’s unpossible”. they may not be as dominant, but it takes to teams to play this game. perhaps the other teams are learning, and more equally matched? i think the misconception is that just because they aren’t infallible they are no longer a great team.
i should hope that no one is that naive to think rookies will immediately fill their holes. however, jerod mayo certainly has. i was simply saying that they are being “proactive” in their approach to filling their holes on defense by focusing on it in the draft in response to a comment that the patriots defense is going to be brutal. perhaps you ought to read the entire thread before picking up some point you think you’re fit to argue.
Later Losman!
The patriots were 16-0 two years ago. last year they lost 5 more games then they did the year before and missed the playoffs. This year, yes they are leading the division but if you are going to tell me that hey are as good as they were two years ago, then I will tell you you are drunk or insane or both.
having a lull doesn’t mean they suck, it means that they aren’t as strong as they once were. The Patriots are not as good as they were two years ago. That is reality.
perhaps you ought to read the entire thread before picking up some point you think you’re fit to argue.
I have read the whole thread. Maybe you should be less spiteful and snarky, and act a little more civil.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
im both drunk and insane. and of course i’m filled with spite, after all i am a bills fan. can’t say i agree with you but i apologize if you feel i did you wrong.
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Dec 23, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
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