Tim Tebow & Mike Martz
by williamsDT on Dec 3, 2009 12:06 PM EST
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PrintDisclaimer: These two guys are unrelated, thoughts about them just happen to be bouncing around my head on this Thursday morning. Also, this is my first fanpost.
I think Tim Tebow is an amazing football player. I agree strongly with Tony Dungy's comments Sunday night that winner's win and that's who you want to have on your football team. I've developed a strong fear that all the discussions Bill Belichick has had with Urban Meyer means that the Patriots will use their first round pick on Tebow and he will torture we Bills fans for year to come. It is the perfect time for the Patriots to draft a new QB. Brady will be great for another 2-3 years. The Pats can work Tebow in gradually running spread/read-option/wildcat type stuff just like Meyer did at Florida to add more concerns for defenses to prepare for. The Patriots already run a fairly spread offense, so it would not be the huge adjustment that has crippled spread QBs like Alex Smith in the NFL. And with Brady in place, there is time for Tebow to learn the offense and perfect his mechanics. My naive assessment is that Tebow has the tools to develop into an incredible thrower. It seems to me that he has a really strong arm. I don't know anything about mechanics. I just know that he completes passes when he needs to and one time I turned the TV on and it showed him throwing the ball a heck of a long way.
I'm not sure the Bills are in a position to do anything about this short of offering the head coaching position to Urban Meyer, drafting the Pouncey twins and Tebow's roommate, Riley Cooper who he seems to look for in the clutch (and who makes the plays). The current Bills offense would not suit Tebow at all. I think if you wanted to tap into his intangibles, you'd pretty much have to mortgage the franchise on the kid and hire a coach specific to his talents, which would be a huge gamble particularly with Tebow's recent concussion issues. I don't think that any of the coaching candidates currently being discussed run offensive systems that would optimally utilize Tebow's talents. It's hard for me to advocate taking such a huge gamble, but I sure hope a team other than the Patriots drafts him.
Which brings me to Mike Martz who Chris Brown said was praising Perry Fewell extravagantly so that he would get hired as offensive coordinator. I think Martz would be the perfect fit to coach the offense if Deisel Fewell gets poured on the Bills as coach next year. In fact, I think Martz would be one of my requirements if Fewell is brought back next year. This offense was designed several years ago by Steve Fairchild in the Martz image, though the architect was far less skilled. What would happen if the master came to town? I would love to see what Martz would do with all the weapons that we heard so much about this year, but have yet to be truly utilized. What would he do with Freddy and/or Marshawn in the Marshall Faulk role? Would Marshall Faulk stop predicting bad things for the Bills on the NFL Network? Wasn't Ryan Fitzpatrick raised in the Martz system? Would we see the return of Gibran Hamdan who followed a similar career path to Kurt Warner (minus stocking supermarket shelves and spiky haired wife)? Is Trent Edwards a good fit in a Mike Martz offense? Would Martz be able to resuscitate Edwards' career? Does Kurt Warner really have that much stronger of an arm than Trent? My major concern is that the Mike Martz offense seemed to work best in a dome and I get concerned about how it would work in the bad weather (so all the December home games would have to be played in Toronto ;(). I'm also not sure that the current receiving corp is fast enough (Josh Reed, Steve Johnson, Hobbly Hardy), but maybe that would provide an actual use for Roscoe outside of returning kicks. I do think that Perry Fewell would give Martz the latitude that Mike Singletary wouldn't in SF.
Just to be clear: Mike Martz would be a terrible offensive coordinator for Tim Tebow, but might be a good fit for the Bills. I think the Martz offense would require drafting an OT (Orlando Pace equivalent?) in the first round and, of course, a GM who understood Martz' wants and needs (which unfortunately might exclude Eric DeCosta). It would also mean a showy, glitzy form of aerial football that I'm not sure fits the Buffalo ethos (but then the no huddle K-gun seemed to be appreciated). Martz just seems to go well in my mind with the offensive players that are currently in Buffalo and Coach Diesel. Coach Fewell seems to have the spark to motivate players required for a head coach and Martz loves to tinker with offensive strategy. We'll just have to see if the Bills can keep "playing like hell and winning" as the season winds down to justify keeping Coach Fewell. If the Bills do, I think bringing in Martz is an interesting possibility.
Let's go Buffalo!
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Nice first post
Tebow is interesting in the fact that you may not want him but you also do not want to face him. He is a proven winner at the QB position and this is something we have lacked since Kelly. I am still torn on the idea of Drafting Tebow, I think i have more faith in him as a player that i do in our organization to allow him to prosper.
As for the coaching situation, whoever we bring in will be an improvement. I am not 100% sold on this issue as well. I like the idea of Fewell because the players know him and trust him. This is because he is not just someone paid to come in and fix everything; he knows the pain and misfortune this team has faced. I think the players feed off of this.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
I’d love to face him! Please! Throw him at me! Send the Patriots back into the gutter where they once were after they draft him!
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by UZ on Dec 4, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
He's a waste
There’s another QB in the draft he’s big he’s smart he has a strong arm and has been taught how to play by a great offensive coach (Charlie Wiess) If ya’ll pick a QB Jimmy Clausen has got everything a team could want.
Mix in a good head coach like Shannahan who will get him a QB coach and you could have a franchise QB.
Waste? Seriously?
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
He’s a great guy and a great story but if you want a true drop back QB that can run an offense make the hard throws and read defenses i believe Clausen is the best bet.
I think Tebow will be a good back up QB in the league hardly someone you draft in the first round,he’s great in college but in the pro’s most defensive players are as fast as him
And with the right coaching he may be ok in 4-5 years but not right away
I like the Locker option better than Clausen
better size and mobility
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
Yes, this. We all know that any Bills QB needs to have excellent mobility because of that line. I think that’s why Fitzpatrick has taken the reigns. At least he can move, and do so without concussing himself every week.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 4, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Clausen is a waste too
Winning is part of the equation.
And Weis is not a great offensive coach. See part about winning.
I can only assume simone219 is trying to work some Drew Brees mind tricks on us to let Tebow fall further in the draft given his avatar. So let me reiterate that I would be fine if Tebow goes to New Orleans, but sadly, I’m not sure they’ll be drafting before Patriots this year.
I suppose simone219 could also be LSU fan upset for having their season ruined every year by the guy some people call Superman.
No
Actually i dont believe Sean Payton is going to draft a QB we have Brunnel and Chase Daniels fro mo. on our squad
And I like ms. state bulldogs everybody beats them every year i was being serious when i said I dont think Tebow will make a good pro QB and Clausen will
Sorry to question your sincerity. It just seems like so many respected personnel people are saying good things about Tebow and Bill Parcells seems to have a pretty good record following his rule to draft graduating seniors who have won more than 25 (?) games.
I think Tebow would be scary on the Saints. It seems like Sean Payton is smart enough to figure out how to use him and keep Brees in rhythm. And it would be one more thing for defenses to prepare for.
On a side note, is it possible Drew Brees and Steve Nash are twins?
My major concern is that the Mike Martz offense seemed to work best in a dome and I get concerned about how it would work in the bad weather (so all the December home games would have to be played in Toronto ;().
Yeah. Can’t state that enough. Martz offense + bad weather = problems.
It’s funny. For such a blue collar town, it seems like Buffalo has the most success when the team focuses on quality offense over defense. Kinda like GB. We don’t have the Baltimore or Pittsburgh defensive tradition. Of course, it’s usually a ridiculous runner, like Gilchrist, Simpson or Thomas. Just something I noticed but didn’t really see where it logically fit into a discussion.
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Ugh!
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by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Dec 3, 2009 4:39 PM EST reply actions
That would be Maurkice. Mike’s a guard.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get why blue-collar Buffalo should have a pound-the-run offense. Why can’t we also enjoy the finer things like those rich people do – long bombs, slants to a on-the-run WR, jump grabs by the TE… We want to win, don’t we?
They don’t really pound the run anymore… haven’t for the past 3 years…
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by NeverendingOptimism on Dec 3, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Tim Tebow has not proven nearly enough to be a first round draft pick. We need a QB who can read a defense, get the ball of of his hands quickly, and throw the ball accurately.
Tebow can’t read a defense or throw the ball accurately. And i’m not sure he get rid of the ball quick enough. Trent can’t get rid of the ball quick enough. Fitzpatrick can’t throw the ball accurately enough. That being said, I think Fitz is the best out of the three.
If I had to draft a QB, I would draft Colt McCoy. This guy is just as much of a winner as Tim Tebow. McCoy will put in the work to be a really good QB in the NFL. He’s very accurate with short to intermediete passes, he can read a defense, and he has enough arm strength to make a deep throw (every bit as much as Kurt Warner).
I’m kind of with you on Colt McCoy because of the winning, but then there’s the arm strength, cold weather, and bad performance of Texas prospects issues.
Wasn’t the bad performance of Texas prospects thing a strike against Brian Orakpo a year ago?
This whole bias against certain colleges thing REALLY needs to go away.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
But Brian, Mike WIlliams was a bust. How could we ever draft from that school again? I actually think there is a little validity to the Texas players get coddled thing, but that’s just something that you have to trust the Bills interviewers and the guys working the phones behind the scenes to figure out for each individual prospect.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
The only rule to apply here: never draft anyone named Mike Williams.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 4, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Aha, Brian, so you really agree completely with csc06258 about Orakpo! You’re clearly saying that Maybin was the worst first round pick in Bills history! ;-)
Also, why doesn’t anybody complain more about Arizona St. and Erik Flowers? I was looking at the Bills wikipedia page and realized I’d never heard of that first round draft pick.
I figured other people would worry more about the Texas thing. I could put it to bed, but I’m honestly not sure McCoy would be a good fit in Buffalo because of weather, spread offense background, and Bills lack of OL protection. McCoy does have one heck of a resume, though. It would be interesting to hear his interview with the Bills at the combine, “So, what would you think about playing in lovely Buffalo? We weren’t ranked the least desirable NFL city to play in by SI.”
Just say no to Locker,Claussen ,and Tebow
I’m not huge on any of them. I personally would just like to beef up our O line,Linebackers,and DY positions this offseason. Come into camp next season with The Fitz,and Brohm battling it out for the QB job next season. After that if neither one proves to be the guy……..draft Pryor in 2011.
Draft Pryor in 2011????
He’s a lesser version of Tebow. Please tell me why he would be successful at the next level? he certainly doens’t read defenses, doesn’t throw an accurate ball and his throwing motion is just as bad as Tebow’s at this point.
It’s ok to have an opinion but that last sentence about drafting Pryor shot any credibility your post had about the subject.
So because the most talented QB prospect of the last 10 years
has struggled ome at Ohio State Im a fool for wanting him. Secondly his release his nothing like Tebows. Thirdly the guy’s career is almost exactly shadowing Vince Young’s. And all this makes wanting him bad how precisely.
Jake Locker
Is the superior version of Tebow. He’s done what he has with zip for talent around him unlike Tebow.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
Except For.
Winning Championships, that’s the result of having no talent around you.
Locker is a superior Option if you like Tebow.
Faster Than Tebow
Better Arm
Better Mechanics
Better Accuracy
More Elusive
Any one who like Tebow for the Bills, should love Locker if you look at the film.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
What are the odds Locker is there when the Bills pick?
If your answer is the same as mine (slim to none), then it really doesn’t matter.
This team has more gaping holes than Paris Hilton.
I agree with your draft priorities, but I kind of feel like Pryor stunted his football development by going to Ohio St. He seems like a prototypical spread QB (i.e. the next Vince Young), and would have better used his talents by following Rich Rodriguez to Michigan. I don’t think Jim Tressel has much of a track record developing QBs and see Pryor as a much bigger project than Tebow.
Locker is the man.
Perfect Mechanics, FAST 4.59 speed, Strong Arm, 6’3" 230, made great strides in pocket passing this year, nice ball location, can throw in tight windows. He sure looks like the next Elway to me if he comes out. There’s a reason the pro scouts are latching on to him now.
His only downside is he is willing to pull the ball down to quick and run, rather than looking for other options.
Which might be a good thing if we want to win now, considering our horrid offensive line.
I do not want one more QB from California, Rob Johnson, JP Losman, Trent Edwards.
Enough is Enough.
At least it snows in Washington.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
And by one more QB from California
I mean Clausen
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
Oh Yeah!
Did I mention he beat USC with considerably less talent around him than Clausen has at Notre Dame?
I have now.
Locker is the fit for what we have.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
His only downside is he is willing to pull the ball down to quick and run, rather than looking for other options.
That is nowhere close to his only downside. He’s spent barely a year in Sarkisian’s pro-style offense, and he hasn’t been that good in it. People will still wonder how quickly he can pick up a playbook and absorb it, and he needs to get better at reading defenses as well.
Tons of talent, but he’s not an immediate starter, and he’s got some growing up to do. I think he needs to stay at Washington for his senior season, personally, but it’ll never happen considering his hype.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 5, 2009 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
If he’s smart, he’ll realize that the uncapped year could have a deleterious effect on his salary. If you aren’t a senior, you probably shouldn’t be entering the draft this year, IMO.
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But as part of a new CBA there might be a rookie salary system change. In my opinion he’d be crazy to stay in.
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 5, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree. Guys make huge money as rookies now and I can’t imagine those contracts getting bigger without a cap. A QB taken in the top 10 will get like 40 mil in guaranteed money alone. If anything, you’re right that a guy like Locker could get screwed over by staying in school.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Tony Pike
Wow. I stopped watching the Pitt-Cinci game at halftime figuring for sure this was the time Cincinnati would finally lose, but really impressed with Tony Pike. He looked so relaxed, moved well in the pocket, and threw the ball down the field with ease. And he’s 6’6". I basically think that he is the next Joe Flacco but has had better competition in college.
And then I see on the web that he goes out and leads his team back to win from down 21. Incredible. I can’t imagine him lasting until the 2nd round. The Bills gotta draft an awesome OT, but the QB classes this year and next are really good.
Agreed
I think Pike is a sleeper. I really am hoping the Bills go OT with the first pick and Pike with the second.
Pike had a horrible 1st half, part of which was caused by his WRs falling down and dropping balls, then had a very nice 2nd half.
Pike does seem to have the mental makeup you would look for in an NFL QB. Good leader, very confident, has the ability to “forget” about bad throws/INTs. I think Pike will be there when the Bills pick in the 2nd round, but you never know. I hope the Bills get a chance to take him in round 2.
This team has more gaping holes than Paris Hilton.
It’ll be shocking if Pike isn’t available 40 picks into the draft. I thought he had a bad game. I didn’t think he handled the Pitt pressure all that well and there are a lot of throws where he needs more arm strength. He’s capable of putting a lot into his passes, but he has a tendency to drop these touch passes into a guys lap on slants and comebacks where he should be putting a lot more pace on the ball. I think his arm strength is going to scare a lot of teams off. I thought he looked like a 4th or 5th rounder today after liking him a lot more than that early in the season.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
He doesn't have a cannon, but I don't think he lacks arm strenght......could use some time in an NFL weight room
I thought that a lot of his bad passes happened when he was throwing on the run. Many of them didn’t seem to have much on them and fell short. He did seem to be intentionally throwing a lot of touch passes, but it looked to me like his receivers were not catching the ball well in the first half. Maybe they can’t handle the “heat”? Pike did handle the pressure better in the second half and made some good reads. No way he last until the 4th round, IMO.
This team has more gaping holes than Paris Hilton.
I don’t think he lacks natural arm strength, I think he doesn’t throw the ball hard enough, often enough. I’ll see him drop a beautiful throw over a LB in zone coverage for a 15-20 yard gain one play and then a few plays later he’ll make the exact same throw except the defense will be in man coverage with nobody between the QB and WR and a DB right on the WR’s ass. He’ll need to add some mustard on his slants, curls/comebacks and other timing routes or throws into traffic in the NFL. He’s capable of it, but I rarely see him do it. And I don’t actually think he’s a 4th round prospect, I just thought he looked like one today against a good Pitt defense.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
agreed......do you think he was throwing passes like that
A. Because he isn’t as accurate throwing heat, period
B. When he throws on the run, he can’t throw the heat
C. His receivers can’t handle the heat
D. ALL of the above
E. B and C
F. None of the above
This team has more gaping holes than Paris Hilton.
Tebow is top 3 best college players ever. With that said, I don’t think his game translates that well to the NFL. For instance, Reggie Bush was considered the next coming of barry sanders basically. He had a great game for college opponents but it didnt translate to the NFL. Eric Crouch is a poor man’s version of Tebow (which is saying something considering he won the heisman too) and he didnt amount to much in the NFL. The coaches and players that make it to the NFL can easily stop the likes of Tim Tebow.
As for Martz, you made some good points about him. And I wouldnt be upset if he was the OC for Fewell next year. As for the weather, if we normally have 4 home games late in the season that are cold, we can subtract 1 each year because it seems like we are playing in toronto in dec. and while NE and NY are cold also the conditions are worse in buffalo most times. I think he is also smart enough to realize this and adjust accordlingly.
Whoa...............
Timmy T-bow is starting to look like Captian Checkdown.
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Dec 5, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions
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