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Run defense a key off-season priority in Buffalo

Run and stop the run. It's an old football cliche, and it's cliche because it works. Successful NFL teams, by and large, are able to run the football effectively, and they're able to prevent their opponents from doing so.

The Buffalo Bills can't stop the run this season. Through 12 games, the Bills have surrendered 2,065 rushing yards, or about 172 rushing yards per game. The New York Jets - victors over Buffalo last night - have been particularly effective running against Buffalo, racking up 567 yards (283.5 per game) in two games against the Bills' porous run front this season. The Bills are ranked dead last in the league defending the run, giving up 11 more yards per game than the second-worst team - Oakland.

This season is the fifth of the decade in which the Bills have surrendered more than 2,000 rushing yards in a season. With four games remaining on the schedule, they're on pace to surrender around 2,700 rushing yards in 2009. If the Bills hit that number, they'll have fielded their worst run defense since 1978, when that 5-11 Bills outfit allowed its opponents to rush for a whopping 3,228 yards, or slightly over 200 yards per game.

Star-divide

Before they reach that lofty goal, however, there are some putrid Bills teams of yesteryear that they must first eclipse. The 1985 Buffalo Bills gave up 2,462 rushing yards on the season. They finished 2-14. (Surprise!) The '79 Bills (7-9) gave up 2,481 yards, and the 1983 Bills (8-8) gave up 2,503 yards. With four games left, at the current pace, these Bills are on pace to surpass all of those memorable teams.

Can the run defense be fixed?
Yes, it can. Anything can be fixed. But Buffalo's got a lot of work to do.

For starters, they need to make at least two major personnel changes. Buffalo's starting defensive tackle duo of Marcus Stroud and Kyle Williams are stout in the middle - according to Football Outsiders stats, they were the sixth-best DT duo in the league against the run in 2008 - but they also wear down, and Buffalo's depth players at the position lack the block-shedding abilities of Williams and the sheer power of Stroud. A massive defensive tackle would not only add a run-stuffing dimension to the defensive line rotation, but if he's big enough and can anchor, he also gives the team some schematic flexibility.

(Speaking of scheme - forget about changing it, because there's not a single scheme employed by NFL coaches that isn't equipped to stop the run. I know fans are clamoring for the 3-4, but ask the Cleveland Browns just how proficient they are at stuffing the run. Buffalo doesn't need a scheme change - though obviously they might get it with a new coach - they just need personnel tweaks.)

Paul Posluszny also needs to be moved out of the middle. In any defensive scheme, middle linebackers need to be able to shed blocks, and with all due respect to Poz - a guy I'm not nearly as down on as some folks here - he's not proven himself capable of slipping blocks consistently. Poz was a better player on the outside at Penn State, and that's where he belongs in the NFL, as well. Kawika Mitchell, when he returns, is still a solid fit at weak-side linebacker. That just leaves Posluszny's vacated middle linebacker spot as a major need area for this defense. Someone big, fast and capable of stacking and shedding, if you please, Mr. Future Bills GM Guy. Oh, and while you're at it, please find capable reserves at linebacker as well - we'll need more than one.

A little discipline wouldn't hurt, either. Buffalo has been susceptible to misdirection plays for years now; the Bills' ends and corners need to be more disciplined in their gaps to prevent big chunks of yardage being surrendered.

One last thing. The best friend of any run defense, good or bad, is a competent offense. Playing with leads is never a bad thing, despite Buffalo's best attempts to prove otherwise. Yes, Buffalo needs to fix its defense, but take a look around you - the best teams in the NFL this season have the best offenses. If you think the Bills have major work to do in shoring up their run defense, they've got a decade's worth of awful offensive football to shore up as well.

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Were they still playing 14 games in 1978?

We need better LB’s, DE’s that aren’t fooled by every little misdirection, and better play out of Stroud. Needless to say, there’s a ton of work to be done, as always.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Dec 4, 2009 10:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Were they still playing 14 games in 1978?
If the Bills hit that number, they’ll have fielded their worst run defense since 1978, when that 5-11 Bills outfit

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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

How much better is a declining (albeit slowly) 30 something DT going to get...

when he has no one behind him to spell him and we ask as much as we are from the aforementioned adjective?

by Tatunka on Dec 4, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

That being said...

I couldn’t agree more on the LB’s

by Tatunka on Dec 4, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Fair point

Agree that Stroud needs to be rotated more, but I still think his play has been vastly overrated all year. Not that it means much, but I agreed when Millen was calling him out last night.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Dec 4, 2009 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Schobel is the worst.

on getting fooled on misdirection.

For years there have been huge gains running behind him when he is too far upfield.

Alot of his sacks come by trying to jump the snap when he thinks it’s a pass.

When he’s wrong and it’s a run, he’s very burnable with the run because he is too far upfield.

If I can see this, any decent NFL coachinng staff can too.

I have seen way too many big runs at Schobel’s direction over the past 6 years.

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

No, Kelsay is the worst. Misdirection plays don’t often go to Schobel’s side because Kelsay is so bad at them.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 5, 2009 2:22 AM EST up reply actions  

actually denney is worse than either of them.

think of last year.

Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!

by JPH on Dec 7, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

It's true they need to fix the sieve,

but I don’t see them winning last night’s game even with a markedly improved run defense. Luckily, it’s one facet to fix on that unit, and I suppose it’s better to first attack the problems with the most observable remedies.

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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 4, 2009 10:44 AM EST reply actions  

Competent LB's... "YES" and several of them that can play when the others get hurt

Mitchell is not guaranteed to return to full health or effective starter status when he returns. LB’s have to be smart to play the “Mike” besides, quick strong and tough. I don’t think you can just plug a rookie in there unless he really has done it again and again for many years in college (Laurinitis is the only one that comes to mind here). Free Agent LB’s have to be brought in. You can’t expect free agent guys like Buggs and Palmer to be effective in these positions.

I give Poz a ton of credit because he really plays hard out there and pushes to max. his abilities out there. We can’t expect a guy like Draft and Scott to be playmakers… both are out of position.

by dabillsr1 on Dec 4, 2009 10:51 AM EST reply actions  

Draft isn’t out of position. He started for the Rams at OLB.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Draft has been solid, not spectacular, when he’s played. He’s been a great midseason pickup IMO.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

He's average if anything...

He makes tackles only when they run to his side and he isn’t blocked. He’s undersized and not very quick. He plays smart because he is a Vet and that is a lot better than what we have in Harris or Palmer at the position.

by dabillsr1 on Dec 4, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. I guess I just like guys who play smart.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Draft has been one of the better additions to this team. It stinks he’s 32 and likely on the downside of his career, but he’ll prove valuable depth if the team lands solid starters next season.

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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 4, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I personally despise the idea of keeping aging vets as depth players at that position. It’s one thing to sign a vet guard like Kendall Simmons, because a guard is a guard. Linebackers are far more important, play far more important responsibilities, and thus I’ll take a young, athletic guy 90% of the time over a guy like Draft.

That’s not to demean what Draft has done. He’s been dependable, but I wouldn’t even say “solid” fits him. He shouldn’t even be in the league.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Totally agreed...

If Draft is on the team next year, we either have all our LB’s injured again next year, or we have John Guy still in the FO.

No way we can’t upgrade him (and don’t tell me Keith Ellison is an upgrade).

by dabillsr1 on Dec 4, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Keith Ellison is an upgrade over Draft. He’s not the best option, for sure….

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

He has done well for what our LB core is, but going forward I definitely don’t see him having a roster spot

I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City

by Ghetts on Dec 4, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Brian’s right – we don’t need slow, aging guys playing key backup roles. Then those are guys who also can’t cut it on special teams as well, so they end up being a detriment in two phases of the game.
The trap this FO has got into has been to draft guys who are marginal talents at their position, however are good special teams players. Instead, they should be worrying about guys who can push and compete with the incumbents and not only make them better but also make a difference in special teams. We always seem to draft players who are good athletes, and nice special teams players, but never pan out as solid backups or potential starters.

by sabre74kkn on Dec 4, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t even say "solid" fits him. He shouldn’t even be in the league.

When I say solid, I mean no glaringly bad plays. He hasn’t whiffed on a tackle, got run over by a RB… he’s made a few plays. Would it be great if our LBs were better than him? Sure. I hope he’s not on the team next year because we get a starter and keep Ellison as the first guy off the bench and special teams guy.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He shouldn’t even be in the league.

That could adequately describe half our team.

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Dec 4, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep – that’ll happen when you put 6 opening-day starters on IR and have no depth.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, if you were to count developmental guys like Hardy and Meredith and guys who are purely special teamers like Corto and Wendling, Buffalo has almost 20 guys who you could say don’t belong in the league. Now, a lot of those guys might be good soon and some of them are very useful on special teams, but that’s a pretty huge number.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Dec 4, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe Draft had three tackles last night. "3"

Adequate, smart and probably the best available at the time we signed him.

Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!

by VanScottM on Dec 4, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s got 30 in 7 games.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 5, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

You're Right About Mitchell

He’s 50-50 on returning to form, that’s the best hope on MCL-ACL injuries.

Some come back and are good again.

Some don’t…ie Sam Cowart

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Does anybody pay enough attention to know what percentage of snaps Stroud plays? Assuming that it’s a high number, I think his play could really improve if he’s rotated in and out a little more, especially in taking him off the field on pass downs where I think DTs are more prone to tire out than people think.

I also think that the safety play has been a huge problem in the run defense. Byrd is a centerfielder who will improve, George Wilson is a gamer, but he’s primarily a special teamer for a reason, Whitner is solid and can rack up the tackles, but he’s not exactly a playmaker in the run game and Scott, who made a lot of tackles in the backfield last year is playing out of position. I think a return of health, some Byrd development and a return to more fitting roles from the safeties will cut down on some of the big gainers. If you think about it, the Bills have been playing a former CB and WR at the same time quite a bit during this awful stretch of run D.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Dec 4, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

Stroud does come off the field a lot for Johnson on passing downs.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually George Wilson has continued to improve to the point where he is one of the best defensive players on the roster. About the last thing this team needs is more help at the Safety position — it’s the one area (aside perhaps from CB and RB) where we are in good shape.

by Macktruck on Dec 4, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Big gainers

I’m not sure the safeties are to blame for those. Yes, Byrd misses tackles and Whitner gets run over, but the biggest issue is the front 7…especially the dreaded cutback. Our DE’s are routinely out of position when a RB cuts back on the D. Thomas Jones has owned the cutbacks against us this year. Last night it looked like he was intentionally trying to cutback as often as possible. Our LB’s overpursue too often, as well, and none of them can shed a block to save their lives. Because of all that, the safties are required to do too much in run support. Yes, they need to be better tacklers, but they also need more help from the guys in front of them…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Dec 4, 2009 2:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i noticed this too.

Jones would completely go against the grain last night and whichever end was in at the time would be out of position, and another 1st down picked up.

"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."

by bflo on Dec 4, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that is something that can actually be blamed on the Tampa 2 scheme. Because the players are faster, but smaller, there is more of an emphasis on gang tackling. Everyone has to swarm to the ball at the point of attack. Unfortunately, if the ball carrier slips around the initial scrum, the defenders are out of position, making the cutback even more effective.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 5, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Our ends cheat. When they think it’s a pass they try to jump the snap, because they know sack numbers get the contract.

Schobel is by far the worst. He gets sacks, but it comes at the expense of solid run D.

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions  

George Wilson seems to be the only person off the edge that can blow up a run from the back side

George Wilson knows how to tackle and has a real nose for the ball… amazing that a former WR is one of our best playmakers on this defense. Why our LB’s, CB’s, DE’s, CB’s can’t get off blocks and diagnois plays like he does is a head scratcher to me.

Kyle Williams is our second best player at diagnoising plays and blowing them up. Hard for him to do it every down when he is trying to get gap control for the LB’s and many times doubled teamed.

Schobel pretty good at diagnosing too, but has lost a few steps…

If we don’t have LB’s that can do this… ugh… or UGLY!

by dabillsr1 on Dec 4, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions  

Schobel got faked out of his jock on a reverse yesterday. He doesn’t get misdirection plays at all.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed.

That is that step or two that he has lost… He has a good first move at the point of contact, but doesn’t have the “burst” to change direction or beat a guy on the outside edge anymore…

All our DE’s can’t beat any OL on outside moves. Maybin was drafted to do this, but easily gets pushed upfield too far to come back to the QB. Our DE’s only sacks come on inside stunts or moves inside.

by dabillsr1 on Dec 4, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

replace Schobel with Kelsay or Denney or most of our front 7 and the sentence still is valid … sadly enough.

by sabre74kkn on Dec 4, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

if you please, Mr. Future Bills GM Guy.

Ahhh don’t capitalize Guy. It makes me think John Guy will get the gig. LOL

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 11:00 AM EST reply actions  

a few positives in the loss

the Bills only had 1 penalty in this game, which was a refreshing change. I think its good that the problem areas in this game are consistent with the problems that we already knew about. The run defense was awful, but we already knew that was a problem. We already knew that Buffalo does not have a starting quality QB on the roster (maybe Brohm but not now). We already knew the line was in tatters. otherwise, lynch and Jackson both had some nice looking runs when the line didn’t totally collapse on them. Evans and TO each made some nice grabs. I thought at least half of Revis’s pass break ups could have easily been called for pass interference.

by Polish Lover on Dec 4, 2009 11:09 AM EST reply actions  

the Bills only had 1 penalty in this game, which was a refreshing change.

That’s b/c the youngn’s (except Levitre) were injured and not playing…

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Dec 4, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course it had to be on Jonathan Scott too...

I am not sure who is worse at jumping into false starts on our team Scott or D. Bell?? They both average 1.5/game each start.

by dabillsr1 on Dec 4, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

D Bell

All the way.

He should change his name from Demetrius to False Start.

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Levitre looked good

Rolled over someone on the Lynch td

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Dec 4, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah he did… picked him up and pancaked the guy. Gorgeous.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Odd thing I saw and heard last night, and yes its stirring the pot, but who cares:

There was one play where clemens i think got outside the pocket and ran down the sidelines. On that play, Maybin showed crazy speed. He either needs to be a rush linebacker in a 3-4 or put on some weight and strength in the 4-3. Where he is now, all “first year acclimations” aside, he’s not doing anyone any good. I’m not bringing up a patience argument; i still think he has the potential to be good. But at 250 pounds (and if he weight 250 pounds, ill eat my shorts) and with all the speed he has, he’s not being utilized the right way.

by quantumuprising on Dec 4, 2009 11:53 AM EST reply actions  

The thing with Maybin, isn’t his weight, it’s just that he is a very long guy, so for his size he needs more weight. I am also really big on players having a full offseason with NFL trainers and weight room. Bell really bulked up and got stronger this year vs last year, and I think it is big for the young guys. I really think this could help Maybin – he did after all miss almost all of preseason. I still have high hopes.

I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City

by Ghetts on Dec 4, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

I just don’t want these trainers bulking him up.

That’s the first step to IR for Maybin.

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Dec 5, 2009 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

You might be right. I think with an off-season in an NFL strength program, Maybin has the raw strength to play on the line on all downs. We have to be patient regarding more than just his play. He’s a 21-year-old kid who isn’t done growing and needs some time to get comfortable in his own skin.

He’s talented enough to play either spot, and that’s to his benefit, because schematic flexibility is never a bad thing. Buffalo could use more of it.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats what i’m saying. I think he needs a combination of more strength and more scheme. Matt millen (as much as i despise him) said something very telling last night – when teams see aaron maybin on the field, they are going to run right at him. So either bulk him up and make it so people cant do that, or pull him off as a stand up backer and let some fat guy take up the tackles so maybin can plow in. Having him play down on stance is not good for him right now.

Speaking of that, what happened to those defensive wrinkles from earlier this year/last year when we’d have 7 guys just milling around at the line of scrimmage?

by quantumuprising on Dec 4, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

what happened was they got gashed by not only the wildcat, but with EVERY type of run formation. they used it this year i think in the jacksonville game, but learned quickly. It’s relatively effective against the pass, but why run the risk of allowing a huge run in favor of some pressure. speaking of maybin and pressure, how is it that we are creating better pressure with no roster movement? we are feilding the same DEs as last year except schobel, who is easily beyond his prime, which was barely above average. thats puzzling to me… and a quick shoutout/request …. KEEP SPENCER JOHNSON!!! he has big upside IMO.

by Ren Diggity on Dec 4, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Spencer Johnson doesn’t have upside. He’ll be 28 next Saturday, so he’s right in his prime, and he’s reached his ceiling as a pro player. He’s useful, but he’s not going to get markedly better.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Johnson’s strength, like Whitner’s, is his versatility. Not great at any one thing, but good at several things. It’s actually pretty useful to have, though you definitely need guys that are great at one or two things.

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by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 5, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

how is it that we are creating better pressure with no roster movement? we are feilding the same DEs as last year except schobel, who is easily beyond his prime, which was barely above average

Bob Sanders.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 5, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Are we really creating more pressure?

Maybe once or twice more per game, but this team still doesn’t have a single guy that can consistently create pressure on the QB.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Dec 5, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. I’d like to see Sanders have some capable and balanced players to work with. Plus a crack at getting Maybin improved in the offseason.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 5, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I am really looking forward to seeing Ron’s line review because this was the first Bills game I got to watch and was the first time I got to see the O-line. And from what I saw beyond the obvious is I hope to god they move Wood to C next year (I hear he is going to fully recover).
Also I know a lot of people aren’t big on McIntyre (and I wasn’t at the beginning of the season), but the first TD from Jackson last game, and the TD from Lynch this game were both caused by nice seal off blocks from him. I think he has gotten a lot better this year and would not mind seeing him next year.

I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City

by Ghetts on Dec 4, 2009 12:04 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed on both points. Hangartner was a bigger problem last night than Scott at LT in terms of giving up sacks and pressures. If Wood recovers from his injury he will probably be a better bet at Center. And McIntyre does help a lot in run-blocking.

All in all, I thought last night’s game was one of the worst by the o-line all this season (and that’s saying a lot). In my opinion Fitz had NO chance whatsoever given the terrible protection he received. My opinion of him (i.e., that he’s a pretty good QB, but not necessarily the long-term answer for the Bills) did not change in the least. The o-line was so bad that it would be a total mistake to count last night’s performance against him.

by Macktruck on Dec 4, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I think...

the OL is a much bigger priority this offseason. In spite of ranking last against therun, Buffalo is still competitive and plays games close. But as we saw on the final drive, the OL broke down on those 2 plays and gave the Bills no chance to win it.

IMO Kyle Williams gets a little too much love. He’s a solid starter, but he is by no means a run stuffer. He wins some and he loses some… but I think he’d be best as that depth guy rotated in when or if the Bills find a more consistent starter.

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by ForeignArrow on Dec 4, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

IMO we could be perfectly set with a line featuring from left to right: levitre, wood, hangartner, simmons, butler.

levitre is a prototype in size and most of his experience is at LT…. wood or hangartner are interchangeable as far as i am concerned, perhaps wood could be better. not sure… but simmons is a former superbowl champ (do steelers have a good line? i don’t know… they have success with running or passing or maybe playoffs or anything…. hmmmm…..) and butler is a beast. that means any draft picks for line could be used on a 1 technique DT or perhaps some additional LBs with size. and oh, put Nic Harris on the field because he is too bright and athletic to get lost in the wash or end up on some other team because a new staff might not know enough about him or care to give him a real look…

by Ren Diggity on Dec 4, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

levitre is a prototype in size and most of his experience is at LT

Levitre would be the shortest tackle, both in height and arm length, in the NFL by a pretty huge margin. He doesn’t have the length to play tackle where defenders have the space to run around blockers. Every scout listed Levitre as a guard and every team would have drafted him to play inside. It’s a very common position switch for players entering the NFL.

The Steelers used to have a good OL, but they don’t anymore. Same goes for Kendall Simmons who was once considered to be a good starter at guard, but had a very serious injury to his achilles and is still working his way back towards being the player he once was.

I wouldn’t worry about Nic Harris not getting a shot. Cheap players like Harris don’t get cut before OTAs and training camp so he will definitely have his shot to impress a new staff there.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Dec 4, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, I’m just disagreeing with pretty much everything you say tonight. :)

levitre is a prototype in size and most of his experience is at LT

Levitre is 6’2" and has short arms. If he were to play LT permanently, he’d be completely abused, because he doesn’t have the wide base or the arm length to keep defenders off of his body. He’d be pushed all over the place. He’s much better off inside where he can use angles and leverage to seal defenders, rather than form a pocket. Dude’s a guard through and through, and his size is anything but prototypical for an NFL tackle.

I do agree with your assessment on Butler – I think he’s a good player – but at this point, he’s hurt far too often to be reliable as a starter.

Right now, I view the Bills as having one O-Line starter set for 2010, and that’s Levitre at left guard. I’m very willing to pencil Wood in at center, but I’d like a clean bill of health before inking it in. Bell, Butler and Hangartner are worth keeping around, but they’ll need to work to re-claim their starting jobs. I might consider keeping Jamon Meredith around as a developmental player, too, because he’s got some raw talent to work with. Chambers? McKinney? Scott? Simmons? None of those guys belong in the league.

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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

The only one I’ll disagree with there is Chambers. He started off poorly for us, but so did everybody. He’s obviously not a starter, but even last year he was a reliable backup. I refuse to believe that 3 of our O-line guys from last year (Walker, Chambers, Dockery) regressed in personal talent so markedly from last year that they’re unplayable now. Our line wasn’t good, but I’ve got to think something between last year and this one was so different schematically (or personnel-wise) that they couldn’t effectively compensate. (Note: Dockery is not good. He’s unjustifiably paid and should be a backup. However, i think he must still has a place in the league.)

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 5, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Chambers just turned 30. Is it really hard to believe he lost a step? Don’t forget he spent the 2006 year completely out of football.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 5, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Simmons? Ew. He is ancient and coming off major leg surgery. If he’s on this roster at the start of next season it will only be because Seth McKinney and about five other guys are injured.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 5, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t mind giving Simmons a shot in training camp next year. He was a good player before he wrecked his achilles and sometimes guys do come out of that and resurrect a career like Takeo Spikes. He’d be a big longshot to make the roster, but one of these years he might return to form some.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Dec 5, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

No reason to not bring him in but he’s gonna be 31 by next training camp.

"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 5, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmmm, I would have guessed he was a couple years younger. Maybe he’s not worth it then.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Dec 5, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Kyle Williams

has a great motor. Stroud needs less snaps. They need a couple young DT’s in that rotation. We don’t have to get a 1st round DT, but we do have to build up our lines. I think OT is #1 priority unless a QB appears to be the answer when our pick comes up in round #1. I agree with Poz not being a MLB. He is a physical beast, and has great leadership, but he just doesn’t have the speed or the ability to shed blocks that we need. We need a more athletic MLB and move Poz outside.

Our secondary is solid for years to come. Maybin has shown me flashes, and I think will eventually, given a distinct role, can be that rusher we hope he will. Whether or not he could turn into a 3-4 rusher, only time will tell. Buffalo’s, problems are clearly what they lack in sheer size. Our players are so small on defense, and our OL is just a mess. Can Butler really play RT? Is Wood really a RG? It seems to me Levitre would be better off at RT, Wood at Center, Butler at RG, and then make a decision on Bell and LG. I love Hang but you plug in Wood, and I think you have a C there for 10 years. Just some rambling thoughts…

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Dec 4, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with you but the last thing we need to do is move our best guard (Levitre) to RT. Again. It didn’t work too well with Butler. Bell, Merideth and Scott can compete for RT. We can find a LT (Bulaga) in the draft and leave Levitre, Wood and Butler inside in that order.

Assuming Butler is any good when he gets back.

by trash plate on Dec 4, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I wasn't surprised at how the Bills or the Jets played...

They were both horrible to watch and I think Thursday games are cruel. Especially at the end of the season. I could see Saturday…but Sunday, Sunday, then Thursday…yeah right!

by Jaynice on Dec 4, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions  

Stunned silence

The massive incompetence displayed by the Bills on both offense and defense last night has left me in stunned silence. The lack of talent that was on the field last night was so severe that I doudlt Vince Lombardi could compete with them. The only incompetent missing from the Bills front office is Al Davis.

by jpheff on Dec 4, 2009 4:07 PM EST reply actions  

poz
he’s not proven himself capable of slipping blocks consistently

I think by consistently you mean at all but Amen and Hallelujah! Glad we got confirmation on this from the head honcho. I’d been saying that so often that, to quote a fantastic Ben Stiller movie, I felt like I was taking crazy pills.

Theres an argument to be made that a MLB is only as good as his DT’s (Urlacher’s productivity going wayyyy down when he lost Ted Washington, before the Tommie Harris era), but the problem with using this in Poz’s defense is that his DT’s are probably the two best football players on the defense. The kid just isn’t a good MLB. He can’t blitz, and he’s a block magnet in the run game.

Boy he absolutely drilled the QB on that fumble. Seems like open space is the place for him, if there is one.

Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!

by JPH on Dec 4, 2009 11:47 PM EST reply actions  

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