Clausen enters NFL Draft; is he a fit in Buffalo?
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 1:30 PM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintThe Buffalo Bills are back to work on the practice field today, but with news scant and the team not very interesting to begin with, it's still, unfortunately, more intriguing to ponder future iterations of the Bills than the current outfit. Naturally, we're going to be taking a brief field trip from talking about the Bills this afternoon - these Bills, anyway - and instead focus on the bigger news of the day.
Notre Dame quarterback Jimmy Clausen has announced his intentions to enter the 2010 NFL Draft. [Mocking the Draft]
Playing quarterback for the New York Yankees of college football, Clausen is one of the most highly-debated prospects in the nation simply because of the golden helmet he wore at Notre Dame. The 6'3", 226-pound junior was college football's second-highest rated passer in 2009, and given the fact that his head coach, Charlie Weis, was recently fired by ND, his declaration for next April's draft is not anywhere near surprising.
The natural thought process for Bills fans at this point is something along the lines of, "Hey, Buffalo's quarterbacks stink, and a new regime will, of course, want a new quarterback. Is Jimmy Clausen the answer?" Time will tell, but fans shouldn't dismiss him as a potential remedy to the team's longest-standing personnel issue out of habit.
Clausen the player
Clausen, as mentioned, measures in at 6'3" and 226 pounds, but it wouldn't surprise me - nor Rumblings draft guru Der Jaeger - if he measured in shorter than that at next February's NFL Combine. He doesn't look too tall on film, though he's certainly tall enough where his height won't be a huge problem for him. He's packed on a lot of weight over the past three seasons at Notre Dame, and while he's still skinny, he's thick enough to absorb hits and stay strong in the pocket.
Clausen's arm isn't elite - you won't be wowed by the velocity on any of his throws - but it's strong enough where he can hurt a defense at all levels of the field. He's pretty accurate and is able to put a nice touch on short and immediate throws; he can squeeze the ball into a tight window, too. He's a playmaker with his arm, but he's very much a pocket quarterback; he's mobile enough to roll out and pick up the occasional first down on a scramble, but his legs are decidedly not a weapon for him.
Where Clausen has distinct advantages over many of the other quarterbacks that will be available next April is in the fact that he's played - and excelled - in a pro-style offense, and that he's an elite decision-maker. As a sophomore in 2008, Clausen completed 60% of his passes and had a 25-17 TD-INT ratio. Those numbers increased dramatically as a junior, when he completed 68% of his passes and had a 28-4 TD-INT ratio. As Mocking the Draft notes in the story linked above the fold, three of Clausen's four interceptions came on tipped passes. The kid didn't make many mistakes in his final year in college.
Clausen was 16-19 at Notre Dame. In his junior season, Notre Dame finished 6-6, but of those six losses, the Irish scored at least 21 points in all of them. Their two biggest losses on the season were 7-point losses to USC and Stanford. He struggled in three games, but still tossed four touchdowns in those games, and in a win at Purdue, he played through a tough injury to his foot. Clausen played with grit as a junior, getting banged up behind a rather mediocre offensive line, yet he still started every game and put up elite numbers.
The big questions surrounding Clausen
Clausen is consistent mechanically, but he's not perfect. He's got a bit of a windup, and he's kind of slow and almost lethargic in his drops - though the ball always comes out quickly. Again - he's not fleet of foot, and he'll need a little work in his drops, in my opinion. His tools are not elite, but they're very good - and in a quarterback draft class that has been slightly overrated, Clausen's well-rounded physical and scheme attributes will likely get him drafted a touch higher than his skill and potential probably dictate.
People have, in the past, questioned Clausen's maturity and mental fortitude. He grew up in California and had tremendous hype as a high school product, and while he struggled mentally early on because of this, he grew a bit as a leader in South Bend. Through tremendous adversity and ridiculous expectations, Clausen has flourished and, perhaps more importantly, gotten better each season. He's rallied the troops for some thrilling late-game performances - in both victory and defeat. His transition to the NFL might not be immediate, but given what he's already experienced, I find it highly unlikely that the NFL game will faze him.
You'll also hear plenty of arguments that Clausen worked in a system that accentuated quarterback stats, and that he was surrounded by top-flight talent. Both are true. Weis has always had productive quarterbacks, wherever he's been, and the likes of Golden Tate (who also announced his intentions to go pro today), Michael Floyd and tight end Kyle Rudolph gave Clausen tremendous skill positional assets to utilize. His numbers may have been inflated because of both factors, but the bottom line is that Clausen still had to make the throws, and more often than not, the ball was exactly where it needed to be.
I've heard the "Notre Dame quarterbacks bust, just look at Brady Quinn" argument too many times to adequately express my true level of frustration toward it. If a quarterback can play football, I don't care if he went to Notre Dame or if he went to South Central Montana State. Clausen has proven that he can play, and he's done it against pretty solid competition. That's all that should matter.
The bottom line on Clausen
I view Clausen as a fringe Top 10 talent that, ideally, would be picked somewhere between the first 10 and 20 picks in the draft. He's not an elite prospect, but he's good enough to build a franchise around. He's not a sure bet - very, very few prospects are, and none of them are quarterbacks - but there's definitely some energy to be excited about surrounding Clausen.
I question just how much distance he has to close between his current level of play and his true 'potential' as a prospect. That is, I'm not sure how much better he can get. That'll happen when you play nearly flawless football at Notre Dame. I think he can make slight gains in technique and obviously in experience, but I don't think he's capable of playing near-perfect football at the NFL level.
I worry a little bit about his willingness to lead, too. He's got kind of a Tony Romo vibe about him, in that when he's on, he's elite, and when he's not on, you question whether or not he's really the guy to head up your program. I'd be very hesitant to plug him in as a rookie starter - particularly in Buffalo - because if he took some early hits and lost confidence behind a porous offensive line, I'd have serious doubts as to whether he'd have the mental fortitude to get through the rough patch. If he starts off hot, however, I think he'd end up being fine, and more able to work through the low points of the game.
The bottom line is that the Buffalo Bills desperately need a franchise signal-caller. Jimmy Clausen is a franchise signal-caller. I'm not advocating that the Bills do whatever it takes to get him next April, but there's little doubt in my mind that he's capable of leading a consistent, productive NFL team down the line. It's way too early to draw lines in the sand, but Clausen is good enough - and the Bills will be picking high enough - that Clausen needs to be on your radar if he wasn't already.
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because if he took some early hits and lost confidence behind a porous offensive line, I’d have serious doubts as to whether he’d have the mental fortitude to get through the rough patch.
remember 07 and the 58 sacks given up behind the non-existent offensive line?
also, i think he’s got a very strong arm and is very accurate – 1 true interception when you have no running game is absolutely incredible
Still think if Cody, Suh or Okung are on the board when we’re up we have to go with them… and I like Clausen but I dont know if he has “it”
I find it hard to believe he is 6’ 3" also…
I would like if we addressed either side of the line in the first and hope Pike is available in the 2nd.
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
There’s a very, very, very miniscule possibility that Suh will still be there when we pick and if he is, we have to jump all over that.
That being said, if Suh is gone, Clausen is my favorite QB prospect coming in this draft. I won’t go over all the reasons why I like him, as Brian did an excellent job of spelling them out above, but I’m just throwing my name out there for the Clausen bandwagon.
If we’re taking an early QB, I want Clausen (or Tebow, but that debate’s for another day). Other than Clausen, I like the idea of taking a DL/OL and waiting for someone like a Tony Pike in the second round (hopefully).
Also, I’d like to add that if we take Clausen (or Tebow), I’d like to see him sit for, ideally, the entire first year with a veteran free agent in front of him (Pennington?). Over the years I’ve seen QB’s that are thrown into the fire falter again and again (with some exceptions), and I’ve done a complete 180 from what I used to believe about starting rookie QB’s right away.
I think if we take Clausen and let him sit behind someone for a year, we’re looking at a fine franchise QB when he gets to play.
There’s no way that he’s 6’3 and his height will be a question mark. I’ll gues he comes in a touch under 6’2 which is on the shorter end of the spectrum, but still an acceptable height. I think he’s about a half inch shorter than guys like Favre and Stafford. And Drew Brees is only 6’0, although he’s the exception to a handful of QB rules.
Suh is long gone. The majority of Bills fans will agree with you on Okung, but I’m not a huge fan of him. And I don’t think Terrance Cody is a top 10 type of prospect for a team that runs a 4-3. Even if Buffalo were to switch over to a 3-4, I’d think of him as more of a backup plan than a real option between 5-10.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Cody doesn't go til probably late first round
He is only a 2 down player with weight issues. I actually like him, but you could get him in the mid to late 20’s in the first round.
Probably. Cody is a very specific type of player so it’ll be interesting to see where he lands. In the right situation, he could be a dynamite player, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team draft him pretty early. I’d guess that you’re right though and he’ll still be available in the 20s.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Considering the weakness of the 3-4 NT crop this year, Cody is a guy that teams will target because he’s quite skilled at what those teams would ask him to do, and is as “safe” a first-round pick as you can find. I think he’ll go somewhere 15-25.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
I do agree he could go earlier
But I think you are going to see a late push by Dan Williams out of Ten. I think you will see him go before Cody.
That wouldn’t surprise me. Williams is the only other high-round potential 3-4 NT with upside out there.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is
I have watched quite a few of Ten games this year, and I really think Williams has a ton of talent. A lot of Scouts are calling him a 3-4 NT, but I think he would be a run stuffing monster with pass rush ability in a 4-3. Think Kevin Williams in Minnesota. I am not saying he is going to be that good, but he has that type of talent.
Yep – schematic versatility. That will make him desirable to more teams simply because Cody lacks it. That might get him drafted before Cody, but Cody is unique because he’s one of only a handful of defenders with the presence, ability and consistency to make an entire defense better just by being on the field.
I like both guys. I like Cody a little more.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I think the biggest thing Cody is missing is quickness. If he got down to like 330 he may have that. To me he reminds me of Ron Brace right now. At 330, he may seem more like Raji, and then will warrent a much higher draft pick.
What round do you guys think Tate goes?
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
He’s a 1-2 guy.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a crazy idea that is worth considering.
Just throwing it out there (and I know that it would totally ignore our OT problems) but what are the chances that we draft Claussen in the first and Tate in the second? If they can be half as good in the pros as they were in college together then we’d have a fantastic QB-WR combo for years to come.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 7, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think we have bigger needs than WR, but I’ve heard worse ideas.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, we’d have MUCH larger needs. But if we end up with a crazy GM (and I’m talking Al Davis crazy) getting both i the first and second wouldn’t surprise me. Especially because of the homerun-play capability by keeping them together. A super offensively agressive GM or coach might not think that this is all that crazy.
Mind you I hope that we don’t end up signing a crazy GM.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
It is going to depend on his 40 time and short shuttle
He has the talent to be a mid first round pick, just there are somw questions about his speed.
I’d rather build up the front 7 instead of investing in a “blue chip” QB who may or may not work out. And if he didn’t work out ….well we know how far it sets you back. :-/
Again, and I think I’ve said this a million times, with tens of million more to come, we need both. We need a QB and we need an O-Line. Just because we don’t have an O-Line doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take a QB, and vice versa. Teams will always prioritize QB first.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Getting a top flight QB is always the first proirity!!!!!!
This is a QB league. It is alot harder to find a true franchise QB as opposed to a left tackle. I have seen a lot of people talk about Marcus McNeil from SD. He was a second round pick. Vollimer from NE was a 3rd (if I am correct.) What I am trying to say is you can find a starting Left tackle in the second or 3rd round as opposed to a franchise QB in the second or third.
Mike Williams did plenty to set this franchise back, so I don’t think this argument is special to the QB. It doesn’t matter what position it is, if you’re picking that high and they flop, it kills a team.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 7, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan Mallett is an incredible physical specimen that has taken tremendous strides as a redshirt sophomore this season at Arkansas. He’s No. 1 overall pick material.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
just dreaming here
but if Mallett were to enter the draft, I’d take him over Clausen given the opportunity.
I agree, I don’t think he’d be around at 6 thru 10. Even if we go 4-12, I don’t think we’d be high enough. He would put my OL pick in second.
saw
the subject was 2011 after my post. Still would like to have him.
I might be temped to do the same.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Andrew Luck from Stanford would be available as well in 2011.........
though I sincerely doubt he would/should leave until atleast 2012………
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
At this point, it looks very unlikely.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
But with a possible rookie wage scale
I think you are going to see a lot more juniors declare than usual.
Yes, but Mallett is a sophomore. Sincerely doubt he leaves.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
well
even if Locker, Clausen, Bradford, Mallett and Snead come out, you’ve got to consider Christian Ponder, Pat Devlin and maybe Blaine Gabbert and John Brantley to look at.
Bill Stull is someone to consider too..........
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Stull is a senior. He’ll be in this year’s draft.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
OH.....thought he was a JR
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 11, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
People have, in the past, questioned Clausen's maturity and mental fortitude. He grew up in California and had tremendous hype as a high school product,
The young man has all the talents that we need plus he may be around in the second round, because Buffalo needs a monster on the defensive line most of all. I have watched Clauson this year and he is already better than what we have . Will he be there when we would take him I do not think so unless we trade for some ones first, and have two.I just read where LT peters is hurt again and they do not know when he will be back. Maybe now they can see what a egomaniac the man is. He can not get any better because he belives he is the best ever already. It may have hurt us by losing him but not as much as if he was still here.
At this time, I think it’s tremendously unlikely that Clausen is available in the second round.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Considering how many people have the Brownies taking him #1 overall I’m not sold on the fact that he’ll even be there for the Bills’ first round pick!
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 7, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
there’s no way the browns can take him, unless they do something we have yet to see. They’ve already got about 30 million locked up on qbs over the next few years, not to mention the fact that brady quinn is finally starting to emerge over the past few weeks.
by quantumuprising on Dec 8, 2009 8:03 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but that 30 M figure will change as soon as the season is over. I don’t see Derek Anderson surviving the regime change in Cleveland.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
his portion of that figure is very low.
by quantumuprising on Dec 8, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Are you kidding me? he’s a 6.5M per year man, on a 60M dollar contract. How can his portion possibly be low? He’s their highest paid QB for god;s sake.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson signed a 3 year, 24 mil deal. He’s actually due almost 10 mil next year in what would be the final year of his deal. You’re right that he’s a goner.
Brady Quinn’s contract is a very reasonable 5 year, 10 mil deal with a few mil available in incentives and another 11 mil that he won’t get in contract escalators from playing time.
From a contract perspective, the Browns QB situation is in fine shape to add a huge money first rounder.
It’s very possible that quantum is right with Quinn playing a couple really good games lately. A couple more of them to finish up the season and they’d be smart to give him another year. Especially considering that Suh may be too good to pass up for a good, but not exactly elite QB prospect.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I was positive that he signed a 60M contract, wow I was way off. Although I was pretty close in his yearly average salery (8M).
And yeah the Browns would be insane to pass up on Suh. I mean they already have Rogers, but I’m sure that he could make a pretty good transition to a 3-4 DE to give Suh the NT position. Imagine how scary that line would be to run at.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Actually Suh reminds me a lot of Buck Buchanon in his speed, strenth and playing style. And while he’s the prototipical NFL NT, I think that he could also make a fantastic 3-4 DE.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
When did you ever watch Buck Buchanon?!?!?
You weren’t even born when he was playing!!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
The magic of internet my friend. I’ve done my homework on the game’s greats.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Although I can’t say that i was enirely expecting that responce.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
You found Buck Buchanon....highlights?
I thought the NFL banned ALL game film on the net…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I found a few “NFL Films” vids online with him in them. Not saying that they were there legaly, but not all internet things are entirely legal either.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 9, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Trust me, Jake Locker is the guy we should want. He has a rifle arm, is tougher than any QB I’ve seen in five years, is a heck of an athlete, has huge upside, is a strong leader, has played on a bad football team and still had a ton of success. It certainly doesn’t hurt that he played in a Pro-Style offense with Steve Sarkisian and he has only gotten better with time. He’ll be something special.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Dec 7, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions
We’ll talk more about Locker if he declares, but I think he needs another year in Sarkisian’s system. He’s a huge, huge risk as a day one starter right now. There’s no question that the talent is there.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Clausen
the upside just isn’t there for me. If he had all the physical tools in the world, I’d be more inclined to back him. But he doesn’t. I believe his mental game is just downright scary. Plus, it doesn’t help that I don’t respect Charlie Weis at all, and the fact that he was mentored by him also makes me question Clausen’s character. The ND offense had every opportunity to make their season a 1 or 2 loss season. instead they are not even going to a bowl game because they are so embarrased yet again. Clausen is a high maintenance, “ME” guy that I want nothing to do with, especially for a struggling franchise like Buffalo. He is no savior, he needs to go to a team with more tools around him to have a shot at being successful 2-3 years down the line like an Aaron rodgers
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
Plus, it doesn’t help that I don’t respect Charlie Weis at all, and the fact that he was mentored by him also makes me question Clausen’s character.
This is the type of bias that leads to misevaluations. Charlie Weis mentored arguably the best QB in the NFL of the past decade, Tom Brady. He also mentored Brady Quinn. Players are players. Don’t forget about systems, but leave biases toward coaches out of evaluations.
I believe his mental game is just downright scary.
I’d really like to hear an explanation on that. It’s pretty bold to say, and you don’t really quantify it at all, besides the “me guy” sentence.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I get it
You argue that Clausen’s evaluations “are unfair and unfounded.” Mostly due to his ND playing days, hype out of HS, and prima dona status. At the end of the day the guy only won 6 games on arguably the most talented offense in football, IMO. The system, also which Weis tailored to Clausen for 3 years. His numbers were prettier this year, but when his team needed him most in the biggest games of the year (at Mich and vs USC) his team lost. You can blame the defense or the loss of Michael Floyd if you wish.
I understand it. He got better each year he was in college. He played in a pro-style offense. He was tutored under Charlie Weis. Btw, Belichick was still the coach if I’m not mistaken when Brady was QB, and we have seen Brady Quinn in the NFL. Not that Quinn’s success predicates much for Clausen as they are 2 completely different humans, but it does tell you some things. It tells me, that in a franchise like Buffalo, who has been completely clueless for a decade when it comes to personnel decisions and building a football identity, I think the last thing I want to do is invest millions of dollars into a guy who has never proven to be a leader in 3 years of ND. Look at his off field history. Citations for buying alcohol to minors, for physical altercations outside bars, and not to mention how every ND game I watch (and I watched every one this year) the guy lets small things get to him and I don’t think he would handle the adjustment in Buffalo very well at all. A city that is “boring”, a team that is rebuilding, and a fan base that isn’t exactly patient. Don’t get me wrong, I think Clausen has “potential” in the NFL, but for me there are way too many “ifs”. Plus the biggest thing of all, he doesn’t have the rocket arm YOU MUST HAVE to play in Buffalo’s winds (we’ve seen how Trent Edwards arm does in adverse conditions, and we’ve seen how with Losman’s arm it didn’t matter, so it has to be both physical and character obviously). We need a strong armed QB with some pocket presence who is a leader and will embrace the city. I just in no way can get behind a Clausen pick for the Bills in 2009 IMHO
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
If you look at a guy and your gut tells you that you don’t think he’s a leader, that’s one thing. If you say “well Charlie Weis is his coach and I hate that guy, so screw this guy,” it doesn’t make sense.
I appreciate the explanation, though I disagree with a lot of it. I’m not trying to sell Clausen as “the answer” in Buffalo, because there ain’t a quarterback in this draft class without serious question marks. I’m just saying don’t write the kid off.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
ton of success? he’s 5-7 this year. he’s a career 54% passer with a 36-26 td-int ratio.
by quantumuprising on Dec 7, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Great post Brian. I’m going to have a good bit more on Clausen tonight when I get home from work. I’ll send you the link to his somewhat lengthy scouting report later, if you want.
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Please do – I think many of us, including me, look forward to reading it.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Agreed....and don't feel limited to sending us links on Clausen ;-)
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
It'd be nice to get the chance to draft him
But will he really slide past St Louis, Cleveland and depending on draft order, Oakland, and maybe Carolina?
Luckily, Oakland and Carolina are picking up some wins (Seattle too). St Louis almost has to go QB though and unless Locker declares, Clausen is a good fit for them…
If we have to move up and have the opportunity, so be it. I just hope this team is proactive about the situation, which is quite dire.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Dec 7, 2009 2:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sorry I'll pass on Cheddar Bob...........
His inability to lead any of his teams to a “signature win” is alarming……sure his stats were good……but if we were just going off stats why not go after Colt Brennan or Graham Harrell types………….I’ll tell you a guy that I wouldnt mind having……even though he’s a tad bit older…..Max Hall….from BYU…..he’s got some big time wins under his belt and definitely played well (even though he’s 24 already) he’s more than capable of leading an NFL team…..
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 2:50 PM EST reply actions
His inability to lead any of his teams to a "signature win" is alarming
People said the same thing about Peyton Manning. I know, I know, it’s Manning, but I wouldn’t hold that fact too heavily against Clausen.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that ND played a mediocre schedule and lost to NAVY twice at HOME during his time there speaks volumes...not to mention the Syracuse loss.
moreso than Tennessee losing to a Florida team which won a NC while Peyton was at UT.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
That’s fair enough, but again, all I’m saying is that it shouldn’t count too much against him. Notre Dame’s defense was so god-awful this season that I’m willing to give Clausen at least some benefit of the doubt.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Okay I do understand the "defense was horrible argument"
but its not like Peyton Manning has been blessed with Stellar defenses……and neither Tom Brady…….there were times Tebow’s defense even let him down, but they all still find a way to win those seemingly “unwinnable games”
And if Clausen is gonna be the QB here in Buffalo……..thats a trait that is sorely needed………….being able to grasp victory from the Jaws of defeat…….
I just cant fully get on board with him being THE GUY.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Tim Tebow is 4-5 when his defense gives up 24 or more points.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Im not exactly sure what the point of this is..........
I said “there were times when Tebow’s defense let him down” and he still won games……..
I never said he won them ALL………just like Brady and Manning dont win them all…………
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think we can draft Clausen with any expectation other than him being the best Jimmy Clausen possible. I think he can lead an NFL team to good-to-great records for a long time. Screw comparing him to anyone else. That’s how I try to look at every player.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
That's fair..........
but there is no doubt he’s going to be compared to his peers……granted Im not paid to evaulate the guy like scouts and they will of course do a far greater detailed evaluation then I ever would……but IMO he just doesnt pass the “eyeball” test……….just like Jamarcus Russell never passed my eyeball test.
Just to give you a comparison………Chad Henne…..I always believed he would be a great pro………many folks disagreed with that assessment….but he always passed that test…….and from the looks of things he’s not too shabby so far.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
I’m glad there’s been some discussion here about the opponents they played this year.
My question is, what was the quality level of the defenses that Clausen played against this year? Did he simply do well against poor competition? That would not impress me.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
Well the highest rated defensive team they played against......
Was BC number 23 over all.
They also played agains the worst Div 1 defense Wash St at 120
Other defenses:
BC – 23
Pitt – 26
USC – 42
Navy – 44
Mich St – 62
Purdue – 68
UConn – 72
Wash – 79
Michigan – 81
Stanford – 85
Nevada – 88
Wash St – 120
So……….sure he threw up some good stats……but 8 out of the 12 teams he played against finished in the lower half of the worst defenses in the NCAA FBS.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
oh and if you are curious where I got these numbers......
here is the link
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
That's not what you meant and you know it.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 7, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow's helped his team win a helluva lot more games that Clausen has.......
thats what my main point was.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Manning's signature wins?
he won 3 bowl games and had a signature come-from-behind victory against auburn in the sec championship his senior year
"I'm going to talk to Mike and see what he has to say and see what he thinks he needs. But there are going to be some changes. What's that old song? 'There are going to be some changes made'? Frankly I forget the words beyond 'there are going to be some changes made.'" -Ralph Wilson, Jr.
by LONNIEJOHNSON on Dec 8, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think Max Hall is terrible. I literally wouldn’t draft him with the last pick in the draft. He’s very short, no arm strength, mediocre accuracy and regularly makes awful decisions while throwing over the middle of the field. I would be shocked if a team drafted him in the first 150 picks and would guess that he’s still available 200 picks into the draft.
And there’s only one game where I would say Hall really had a signature win and that was his huge performance against UCLA last year. His other big games havn’t gone well at all. He’s managed to put up 7 points against TCU two years in a row. They got crushed by Florida St. this year. They scored 14 points against Oklahoma in that win and Hall threw for 134 yards in the win against Utah. The point of stats isn’t to see how well they did, but to project how well they will do so I couldn’t care less about a big win if the player had a bad game.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
So I think I would rather have a guy throw for 134 yards and get a big win against a heated rival........
then throw for 400 yards and seemingly not make enough plays to win the game in the end….
You are correct…….stats dont mean anything……………..but W’s count for alot.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, but the point of looking at college stats and performances is to predict future performances. For me, losing a game 35-38 is more impressive than beating that same team 20-17. I’ll have more confidence in the QB who put up 35 points to win the next game than the guy who actually won.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
To me the QB position is more about leadership than Stat accumlation..........
you may look at it differently of course………..Jimmy Clausen IMO lacks that “it” factor that leads me to believe he has the makeup to be a great NFL leader…….at the Quarterback position…….and the only proof I have of that is based on his success (or lack thereof) at the college level with a “high profile” school.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
The point is that if Clausen only had to lead his offense to score 20 points in every game to win it, he’d have a lot more wins and people would then think he has that “it” factor. The end results aren’t the best prognosticators of the future. Clausen drove his team down the field in the final couple minutes against USC in a game where if Kyle Ruduph had come down six inches to his right, ND takes to overtime with a 34-34 tie. How differently are people thinking of Clausen if that happens? And what if Notre Dame didn’t miss two FGs and lose two fumbles against Navy or give up 45 points (in a game where ND scored 38) at Stanford. Or what if they didn’t give up 38 points to Michigan or lost two fumbles against UCONN. How different would Clausen’s record be? Only so much of the game is in his control.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Well he's gonna have the opportunity to prove me wrong..........
I wait with eager anticipation lol.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Im totally with the people who love Hall.
Every game I’ve seen him in he’s looked good. I mean even when his team his down he’s got good body language. I mean if he was 3 inches taller he’d be a guy people would be talking about as a high first round draft pick. Plus love the bloodlines and love his arm. Of course I also like his teammate Unga(sp?).
I’m with kaiser. Hall is a very, very marginal NFL prospect. There’s not an awful lot to like.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Kidding I get where your coming from. But theres been lot’s of “marginal” type prospects that have gone on to have good to great careers. As to Hall I wonder what your seeing in him that you hate so much? I mean could you give some specific things he does that turns you off. Because when I look at him I see a guy who’s only knocks on him are he’s slow(which is ok for a QB) he’s kinda short,and he takes some chances with the ball that he shouldn’t. But on the upside,he’s got a pretty big arm,good mechanics,above average accuracy,and he’s pretty poised.
Notre Dame's great history
is at least a decade and beyond in the past. Even the Yankees finally won this year but ND’s dominance is long-gone, so Iwouldn’t equate the two……not anymore.
The attitude “He’s a star at Notre Dame so he must be great,” is not applicable today. Ask Navy.
Keep building the OL, Bills, and good things will happen.
thats not really the attitude of this post though.
As Brians said before. It doesnt matter what college you come from. Each player is their own player. Just because a certain school has had a history of a specific position not turning out doesnt mean thats the case with every player that comes from that school. Delaware never had a good NFL – QB and then there is Joey Flacco. Its about the player, not the school.
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
Rich Gannon came from Delaware..........
he turned out okay.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
thanks.
for blowing up my arguement :-/ haha
im just trying to say that the school and their history shouldnt effect how we look at a player this year.
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
lol I know what you are trying to say......
However I will argue that many times a player chooses to go to a school because of the way they develop certain posititions………for example…….a guy like Graham Harrell isnt gonna go to Georgia Tech with Paul Johnson………just like a guy like Josh Nesbitt isnt gonna go throw the ball 5000 times with Mike Leach for the Red Raiders….
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
haha.
True and thats why I agree for players that played at a “gimicky” school. (TT = high% of pass / GT high % of run) but schools that run the 2 most common in the NFL (pro-sytle and spread) that the history of players cant be bought. I dont think its fair to compare Clausen to any ND QB bust just because they went to the same college. Now if you want to compare them by mechanics and smarts thats fine. But if all they share is their alma mater I think thats unfair.
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
Re:
That’s an accurate portrayal of Clausen. Personally, I like Locker more, but I’m betting he’s bound for St. Louis or Cleveland in the top 4. The fact that Clausen would be better suited to come in and start than Locker wouldn’t enter into the equation for me. I don’t want any rookie QB playing behind Buffalo’s current mess on the offensive line. Here’ hoping Buffalo gets their long-awaited savior at QB early in this draft and lets him sit for a year while the line is sorted out. With the 2010 and 2011 drafts, coupled with further development for Levitre and Wood, the line could conceivably be good by the 2011 opener. I’m not sure if I like Clausen more than Bradford (I think I do), but my guess is that this will be the debate for the Bills by the time their pick comes up 7th or 8th this April.
It’s far too early for Cleveland to give up on Brady Quinn. The coaching has been horrible. Maybe they’ll try for the NE trifecta and grab Weis to coach up Quinn.
I think the only QB you can label a bust this early is JaMarcus Russell.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 7, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Pass on Clauson
I’d rather sign Pennington and draft Tony Pike in the 3rd or 4th round. Use the 1st and 2nd round picks on beef for the O-line and D-line.
most of my posts get deleted :(
same here with the exception of Pennington
atleast untill we see how his arm is
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
Pike looked awful against Pitt in a huge game for that team on Saturday. He was nearly benched several times. What’s extra scary is that a good portion of the problem was the bad weather… I lost my confidence in him watching that game and really hope he doesn’t wind up on the Bills now.
he did lead an amazing comeback tho
He had a BAD first half but played pretty damn well down the stretch.
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
agreed......and his WRs didn't help him out much in the first half either
The two INTs where at least 50% on the WRs plus quite a few of dropped passes. He certainly could have played better, but let’s remember, if he was a finished product we would be talking about taking him in the first round.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
Your read on Pike is accurate. He’s only been playing football a few years. He’s a project-type, but he’s got solid potential. He’s also slightly older than most prospects you’ll see, so that’s something to consider – just as it’s important to consider that guys like Clausen and Locker are considerably younger than your “average” prospect.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
He’s also slightly older than most prospects you’ll see, so that’s something to consider
I actually think that this may be a good thing for Pike. We’ve seen time and time again younger QB’s getting lost in the trasitions to the NFL (Russell, Young…) because they didn’t have the maturity to handle the spolite and enable to full transition to the NFl go smoothly. And while a higher age does not garantee maturity, it is usually the case for atheletes like Pike.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but in Pike, you’re getting something closer to Mark Sanchez than you are to even Jimmy Clausen. He’s very, very inexperienced.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2009 5:13 AM EST up reply actions
Pike wont make it to the third. I doubt that he makes it half way threw the second round.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 7, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say Clausen was surrounded by elite talent…. he had a pretty poor OL in front of him.
Kiper has Claussen as the #4 prospect right now, and the inference from the article on him declaring (at least the ESPN one) leads you to think that he’d be taken in the top 5.
If you believe in statistics, they say you’re more likely to hit on a QB when they start a lot of games and complete a very high percentage of passes http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135. Clausen seems to fit those guidelines. Again, it’s not a perfect system (nothing is) but a place to raise potential red flags.
And if you want someone that really fits those guidelines you’re probably looking at Colt McCoy. If he wasn’t hurt Sam Bradford would be highly rated in this system as well.
And if you want a nice example of someone that those guidelines would say is a bust candidate look no further than Jake Locker and his inexperience and low completion percentage.
Bottom line is that the Bills, picking in the 6-12 range will likely have a shot at taking at least one of those 4 QBs in round 1, and probably 2. Hitting on the pick is important (in the stating the obvious category).
just an FYI........
your link doesnt go anywhere.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
for me atleast.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Delete the period in the URL and it works
I agree with this article – I would much rather take a guy who’s been a 3 or 4 year starter (McCoy, Clausen) than someone who hasn’t started as many games (Sanchez, Locker) if their skills are comparable.
That article also provides a look at Brohm since it’s from the ’08 draft.
By elite talent, I meant specifically his receiving corps. Tate, Floyd and Rudolph are all outstanding pro prospects.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with most of the comments on Claussen
- Something about him, though, I don’t know if he looks soft or what, but he does make most of the throws. I am afraid of drafting another Q.B. who went to high school in Southern California – JP Losman, Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards. I love Ryan Mallett from Arkansas, especially if he comes out.
- I am still in favor of taking an offensive tackle or inside linebacker or defensive tackle, if their are some good one’s available. At this point, Bills might as well take best player available.
- I don’t know, what about Bradford from Oklahoma in a later round if his shoulder has recovered. But he has injured it twice now.
- Some think that the Browns might take Claussen or the Rams.
- I think a darkhorse Q.B. to watch from the MAC could be Dan LeFevour, Central Michigan. Probably will not be taken in the first 3-4 rounds, but has the size and seems to make the throws.
I do like Dan as well......
he would be a good fit personality wise in Buffalo I think. And the guy is a proven winner…….he’s gonna be someones starter in a few years.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Plus with a last name like LeFevour, maybe our Canadian friends will come to see him play in Toronto
The only thing worse than losing a home game at the Ralph is losing a home game to a city who don’t care enough about the team to come and support it.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
I would put money on the Rams taking a QB. Bulger is toast at this point in his career.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 7, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I love LeFevour, he’s probably my favorite prospect that the Bills will have a chance to get in the 2nd round.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 7, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think people here are a little too high on LeFevour because of the success of guys like Pennington and Roethlisberger and his gaudy numbers. He’s pretty average. I think he looks like a backup.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the way I view the Bills' 1st pick priority:
If they take a QB, and do so because they feel he’s better than anyone else (including the guys who will / could be declaring next year), I have no problem on them passing on a LT. The team is likely to tank in 2010, so there will be ample opportunity to get that LT next year. I feel that LTs are more plentiful (lately) than the opportunity at a franchise QB.
If it was my franchise, i’d look at QB first (sit him to mature), and realize this ship isn’t going to float well for a few more years.
Am I wrong to think you have to grab a QB before a LT, if that QB is your guy between the talent over the next 2 years?
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 7, 2009 4:13 PM EST reply actions
I agree with you 100%, and think that Clausen and Locker will be gone before we pick
After that, might as well wait until round 2 this year or 2011 for a QB
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
Bradford’s about the only guy I like in round 2. If he lasts. I’d say McCoy, but he won’t last until then.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 7, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Has Bradford fallen that far?
Last year if he had come out, he would have been a top 10 pick. I know he got injured. Was it that bad? Is there more to his drop than injuries? Bradford has said he will enter the 2010 draft. But if he has fallen that far, I wonder if he will change his mind and go back for his Senior year?
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
I don’t think there’s any chance that Bradford falls into the 2nd round. It’s much more likely that Bradford goes before Clausen or Locker (which isn’t at all crazy), then it is that he gets anywhere near the 2nd round. If he drops into the 20s, somebody will trade back up to get him.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I don’t think that Bradford falls to the second, but I do think that he may fall all the way to a late (20+) first rounder. He looked VERY average this year. He hasn’t shown the ability to make great reads now that he’s no longer behind college football’s best offensive line. In fact he’s shown that he can crack under pressure. Add the injury in (teams will question his health and it will affect his ranking). Add the spread offense thing to all of it… and yes I do believe that Bradford has fallen that far.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
Bradford will be a first-round pick.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Oh good, you want to replace Captain Checkdown with Colonel Checkdown?
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 7, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Knew I was going to do that, because one of his other statistical poor performances was Pitt, and they lost to Pitt. Fixed it. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Jimmy Clauson primadonna doesn't fit in Buffalo
round one I’d take our future 3-4 NT Terrence Cody. round 2 goes to OT Ciron Black or LB Eric Norwood. QB in round 3, either Pike or LeFevour. Heck, I’d take John Skelton in round 6 or 7 before taking Clauson in 1. Jake Locker is the only franchise QB that I can see in the first round. A healthy Sam Bradford, maybe.
most of my posts get deleted :(
You seem really sure that the Bills are going to be a 3-4 team next season…
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 7, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Terrence Cody is not a top ten pick
Unless you want to over draft for need like Donte Whitner and John McCargo. That worked out well.
And
Ciron Black has been horrible all year. If you are going to look for a 2nd round OT you should look at Fox from Miami
Wasn’t Jim Kelly a prima donna coming out of Miami? Chose the upstart league with more money because he didn’t want to play in Buffalo?
Just playing devil’s advocate, because you didn’t really quantify yourself, and I think the argument you’re making is a weak one.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
I hate drafting QBs that early and pinning the hopes of your franchise on his shoulders.
There are success stories like Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Peyton Manning etc….there are also disaster stories like Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer etc….and there are also the ones when the QB just wasn’t ready right away or just wasn’t ready to be that kind of QB, David Carr, Trent Dilfer, Alex Smith, etc….
With all that said, I think this team needs to get a young QB in this draft. I don’t care what round, they need a young QB. My dream scenario would have the Bills acquiring a vet QB to keep the kids seat warm for a year or two. I will admit that I really don’t have a preference, the Bills could draft Clausen, Locker, Matt Warren, or Jason Fritz and I would be okay with it as long as they were committed to developing the new guy and playing the vet.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Doesnt Brohm count as a young QB though?
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
He was a second round pick that got cut a year after being drafted mainly because he was outplayed by a guy taken 5 rounds later then him. To say I have very little faith in him until he proves he deserves it is an understatement. I would bring Brohm into camp and give him a shot, in fact I would bring Fitzpatrick, Brohm, draft pick, and vet into camp as my four QBs.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Gotcha........
Makes sense.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 7, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Who the hell is Jason Fritz? ;)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Some loser who plays in the same league as Matt Warren.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
That guy sucks
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Fritz or Warren?
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Does it have to be one?
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Well in his statement it does otherwise he would have said “those guys”. Oh and screw you. LOL :-)
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry you get upset by Brady Quinn comparisons Brian, but I would not draft Clausen until someone could explain to me how Clausen is different from Quinn. I could imagine exactly the same things being written about Quinn as he was leaving college.
That said, Quinn has not been the beneficiary of any good coaching in Cleveland, and I’m a big believer in providing strong support for QBs entering the NFL. If the Bills hired Weis or Martz as OC or Shanny as coach and any one of those coaches loved Clausen and thought he was ready, then I would be fine with the Bills drafting him. However, if somehow Fewell is still coach and AVP is OC, drafting Clausen would make me very unhappy. Clausen also seems pretty similar to Trent Edwards when he left college (same height, weight, slightly stronger arm).
I would not draft Clausen until someone could explain to me how Clausen is different from Quinn.
Quinn played in Weis’ first two seasons. In those years, the Irish went a combined 19-4 and made two BCS bowls. Weis, at that time, was a huge story in South Bend, and most thought he’d turned the program around.
Then he went 15-21 over the next three years, with Clausen as his quarterback. His future has been in doubt for two of those. Despite the lame duck status and the lofty expectations, his quarterback kept getting better.
Clausen went through MUCH more adversity than Quinn, and he was a better quarterback at ND, even if he won less. He put up gaudy stats despite teams having a better idea of what Weis and his schemes were all about.
At least in my eyes, Clausen is a more attractive pro prospect than Quinn was because I like a quarterback that doesn’t buckle under the pressure, which Quinn did in some ugly losses in his time. Talent-wise, they’re quite similar, though Quinn’s closer to the “prototype” in terms of size, arm, etc.
And for the record, Clausen is essentially nothing like Trent Edwards.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
You’ve made me slightly more sympathetic to Clausen, but I would feel much better about him if he’d had some Joe Montana-like comeback wins against some decent teams. I see the point that Weis couldn’t coach or recruit for defense to save his job, but I still think winning is winning. Some could view the adversity you speak of for Clausen as being conditioned to accept losing.
he had several game winning drives this year…
not to mention a huge comback against usc that was botched by his receiver…
by quantumuprising on Dec 8, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he came real close to bringing that USC game into overtime. And Notre Dame scored 21 second half points in Michigan only to lose the game because it was Michigan who got the ball last and scored the game winner in a 38-34 shootout.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
and any one of those coaches loved Clausen and thought he was ready, then I would be fine with the Bills drafting him.
This is what it comes down to for me: Let’s go find some guys who know football, and then let them go get their guy. If the GM and coach see eye to eye on a guy, be it Clausen, Locker, Tebow or Bradford or Pike, then that’s my guy.
as long as it’s not Jevan Snead. I hate Jevan Snead.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
that would imply that our coaches would involve the TE... haha
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
If we pick a QB in the first round, I'd like it to be Claussen.
That being said, he might actually be a bit of a reach at where we’ll be drafting. And, more importantly, I think that there will be two or three LT’s (Okung, Davis, Bulaga) for us to chose from that will be better pro players then he will be, and are safer picks then Claussen.
So when it comes down to it, do we want the safer pick of an LT or the dinamic (but not sure fire) pick of a QB? My vote is to go LT and see who’s available at QB in the second. Idealy (for me) we’d go Okung/Davis in the first and Pike in the second.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 7, 2009 7:11 PM EST reply actions
I like your round 1 & 2 picks.
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
Maybe this question was brought up (I was too lazy to look at all the posts)...
but isn’t he from California? I’m done with California QBs!
That argument holds about as much water as the argument that Notre Dame prospects are somehow worse than others. Which is to say, it holds zero water.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 7, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure why, considering this team's history with Sunny CA QBs
I don’t think it’s much of a coincidence that many of the great QBs of the past 40 years grew up playing pee wee and high school in places where football starts when it is 75 degrees and finishes when it is 10 degrees. They learn to play in the conditions. There are exceptions, but take a look at the can’t miss QBs who played their whole careers in FL or CA. For every Carson Palmer there are 10 Rex Grossmans and Matt Lienarts. I’m with Telka, unless the guy played high school ball in the Sierra Nevadas, I’ll pass on the CA QBs.
Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers don’t seem to mind the conditions. And if weather is the determining factor in why you don’t like Cali QBs, then what makes guys from the southeast any different? Favre, the Mannings, Rivers, all southern born and raised.
Alex Smith, Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf and Joey Harrington are from the northwest, maybe we shouldn’t draft Jake Locker. Or maybe where they are from is completely irrelevant.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Just Sayin
Favre is the clear exception. Brady grew up in CA but played (or didn’t play, really) at Michigan. The warm weather guys just don’t make the jump as well. Has nothing to do with Cali per se. The Mannings are great, but come on. Those guys have it in their blood. Rivers plays virtually all his games in warm weather. It’s not the California issue, its the never dealing with weather issue. I think that learning to be a pro QB is difficult enough without learning to throw the ball when you can’t feel your fingers, toes or ears. Being upright helps as well, but if we’re going to bring in another warm weather QB, let’s just give the one we have a better offensive line so he can not be concussed regularly and perhaps progress through his reads before running for his life.
so besides every good QB who grew up in warm weather, there are no good qb's who grew up in warm weather?
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Dec 8, 2009 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
No
There are a handfull of warm-weather high school and college QBs who have become great NFL QBs for cold weather teams. Brady spent four years at Michigan, so although he grew up in Cali, he was accustomed to the brutal effects playing 3 hours in 24 degrees and snow when he turned pro. Rivers plays 8 games a year in San Diego. Peyton plays 8 in the RCA dome. I think an established ability to play in bad weather ought to be a consideration for any QB the team considers. As I said, there are exceptions to every rule, but if there are now Elis or Big Bens in this draft, which it seems there aren’t then I think an ability to play in Orchard Park weather ought to be a prereq.
I think an ability to play in Orchard Park weather ought to be a prereq.
I don’t disagree with that, but I think the general rule is that good QB’s can play in bad weather, and bad quarterbacks can’t. I think the idea that Brady developed something by standing on the sidelines at Michigan is just your imagination…
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
And how many games was that?
Brady spent four years at Michigan, so although he grew up in Cali, he was accustomed to the brutal effects playing 3 hours in 24 degrees and snow when he turned pro.
Once a year, maybe? The Big Ten season ends before Thanksgiving. How many times did he actually play in poor/cold weather in college?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Brady grew up in CA but played (or didn’t play, really) at Michigan.
And Clausen played at Notre Dame, where it ain’t exactly surfin’ weather.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2009 5:14 AM EST up reply actions
John Elway was a Califronia QB.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I’m more concerned with being done with QB’s from Ivy League schools than ones from Cali.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 7, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
He’s got kind of a Tony Romo vibe about him, in that when he’s on, he’s elite, and when he’s not on, you question whether or not he’s really the guy to head up your program.
I couldn’t agree more. As Colin Cowherd said, when it’s sunny out and Romo’s facing Oakland, he looks like an all-star, then you put him against a tough team or in a “must win” situation and he’s a chump! I think Claussen could be the same type of QB, they both also have that same kind of non-chalant swagger, which would annoy the piss out of me if we were losing games. I touched on this earlier in the season when Trent showed this trait.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Ha! Notre Dame quarterbacks bust?
What about that Joe Montana guy?
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
At some point you have to draw the line and get to the point where playing well and losing makes you more likely to win in the NFL than playing OK and winning with a good defense. It’s a team sport and wins and losses can’t be contributed solely to some magical intangibles that QBs supposedly have. Am I the only one who has noticed that QBs with good defenses are always considered to be winners while QBs with bad defenses get labeled as guys who lack “it”. People were talking about Aaron Rodgers and his win loss record over the offseason as if it was his fault that Green Bay had a down year last year. That defense gave up 24 points per game last year and Rodgers and GB went 6-10, this year the D is giving up 19 points per game and Rodgers is 8-4. Must be because he found his moxy.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
But Trent is just as good as Rodgers
Ugh, that argument was so ridiculous earlier this year….
For much of his Saints career, Brees was thought of more as a stats guy instead of a winner. Now that his defense is playing better football, all of a sudden he’s a record setting WINNER. Amazing how a little bit of help from the other side of the ball can help a player’s reputation….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Who's doing that?
Because I sure wasn’t.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Well you did reference Rodgers and Edwards.
And then you referenced Drew Brees with the saint’s. Maybe I’m confused though.
Ha, you are!
Earlier this year there were people trying to compare Rodgers to Edwards saying Trent was just as good because their starting records were similar….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
God I despised that argument.
Aaron Rodgers is evidence of the way quarterbacks should be developed. The coaching staff found their man, groomed him behind a great leader, and when he was ready, they let him step in.
Geez, I love me some Aaron Rodgers.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Dec 9, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Must be nice to have a top notch QB
….for almost 20 years now too!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I don’t think that Rogers would be half the QB that he is now unless he was developped behind Favre. Having that legend QB is the deffinate key in the Rogers equasion.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 9, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think Favre helped, but even moreso
was just that he was given the time to develop and become comfortable and become a Pro.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Dec 9, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Because pro QBs start for more than two or three seasons and have much more accessible (sp?) statistics. Due to fantasy football and what not, I’m also much more familiar with pro statistics, so I can come up with an example like Rodgers and then go get the stats instead of pouring over lists of numbers until I find something that fits.
Here’s my point and I’ll try and make it as straight forward as possible. I’m breaking it down into two thoughts:
First thought is that everyone would agree that, for a QB, losing to the best team in the country 1,000 to 999 is more impressive than beating the worst team in the country 3-0. So winning isn’t everything. The question then becomes at what point does the W mean more than the offensive performance. If a QB plays great, but loses the game because he has a crappy defense, is that less impressive than a QB who plays OK and wins 13-10? What’s more impressive is very debatable and I’m saying that maybe Jimmy Clauson’s success is overlooked because his team didn’t do so hot. And on a sidenote, why doesn’t anybody give Jake Locker flack for not winning more games?
The second point is that performance is more consistent and projectable than wins and losses. Give me a guy who plays great and is .500 over a guy who plays well and is .850. Winning in the past doesn’t make a guy as likely to win in the future as playing well in the past makes a guy likely to play well in the future. Stats are important, but must be taken in context and W-L record is the exact same way.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I feel like were agreeing here.
My problem comes with people who focus only on one aspect of a QB or another. I totally agree you have to take performance in account as well as there W-L record. Thats why guys who play in smaller conferences are harder to grade at a position like QB.
Once again no ones implying that.
What I’m saying is you can’t just totally throw out a guys win loss record when evaluating a prospect. I’m advocating a balance. Not just he’s got a lot of tools draft him,or he won a bunch of games but is limited athletically draft him. But more of a well rounded look at QB prospects. Unfortunately it feels like may on this board are convinced that there are only 2 types of QB prospects. Hall of famers or Busts. Theres literally no middle ground on here. But sometimes (honestly) thats part of the fun.
If you click “reply” to a specific comment, it’ll make the conversations much easier to follow. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2009 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
Thats what got me into this trouble in the first place.
I wrote a comment,then Kurupt responded kaiser, then I responded back to Kurupt,then anarchy.
the plan
why not get a defensive minded HC, get Sweet Charlie weis as OC, draft Clausen in the 1st, Tate in the 2nd and an OT in the 3rd?
Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills
Your lagging, I suggested that above ;-)
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 8, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I think a guy we might need to take a long and very, very hard look at come draftday is Sam Bradford, because right now – if Locker doesn’t declare – we’ll be looking at drafting sixth or hopefully fifth in front of the Redskins, who are also in dire need of QB (though I think Jason Campbell can be a very good QB in the right situation). The Rams absolutely need a new face of the franchise to lead them back to the promised land just like us, and Jimmy Clausen will likely be that guy come April for them.
Then he’ll be off the board in this hypothetical experiment and we’ll be looking at Bradford as the one guy worth being drafted up there, although I don’t at all like the fact that there’s so little tape on him. He might be as accurate as any QB I’ve seen the last 3-4 years coming out of college, but his lack of arm strength really scares my (it certainly doesn’t help that he has had shoulder surgery on his throwing arm —> reminds me way too much of Chad Pennington).
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Dec 9, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions
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