Bottom Ten Bang for the Dollar Bills
Earlier this week I put together a list of the Top Ten "Bang for the Buck" players on the Buffalo Bills showcasing the best production for the lowest salary. I can't believe I put "Buck" instead of "Dollar Bills" though. It is so much better this way with the pun!
Here is the list many of you have been waiting for - the worst production for the amount of money we paid them. To take a look at the rest of the list of main Bills contributors and their salaries, take a look at the other article, linked above.
The total payroll for the Buffalo Bills last year was $113,364,927. We had zero players in the top 25 highest paid players in the league. Because the total payroll includes practice squad and players placed on injured reserve, it doesn't always line up with the $116,729,000 salary cap from 2008. If you line up all the salaries from most to least, and split the difference, the median salary on the Buffalo Bills last year was $1,154,000. The numbers listed in parentheses are the total cap hit for a player this year; salary plus bonuses.
Tier III
(Main contributors with cap hits between twice and thrice the team median $1.15M = $2.3M to $3.45M)
Brad Butler ($ 2,493,190)
Kyle Williams ($ 2,502,090)
Donte Whitner ($ 2,734,500)
Josh Reed ($ 2,925,000)
JP Losman ($ 3,068,730)
Ryan Denney ($ 3,102,040)
Melvin Fowler ($ 3,321,108)
Tier IV
(Main contributors with cap hits more than thrice the team median $1.15M = greater than $3.45M)
Kawika Mitchell ($ 4,003,240)
Terrence McGee ($ 4,125,000)
Roscoe Parrish ($ 4,256,080)
Jason Peters ($ 4,450,000)
Chris Kelsay ($ 5,000,000)
Marcus Stroud ($ 5,668,706)
Langston Walker ($ 6,001,800)
Derrick Dockery ($ 6,353,240)
Aaron Schobel ($ 8,723,555)
Lee Evans ($ 10,462,627)
2008 Bottom Ten Bang for the Bills Team
Dishonorable Mentions: Duke Preston, Spencer Johnson, Robert Royal
10. Lee Evans - I am a fan of Lee Evans. He went about his business the right way and got his big contract. With that being said he underplayed this year's cap hit. Granted, most of this year's salary was essentially a bonus because they had the cap room but he had 3 TD to show for his $10.5M cap hit. Ouch. He did lead the team in catches with 63 and broke the 1,000 yard mark while averaging a healthy 16 yards per catch. Even so, he was the second-highest paid receiver in the league behind Marvin Harrison. Not the Bang for the Bill.
9. Ryan Denney - Denney put up solid statistics and was our most consistent DE this year. That being said he earned $3.1M for 4 sacks. He did put up a respectable 39 tackles and batted down nine passes, so even when he didn't get pressure, he disrupted the play. He is the first DE of three on the list, one of the reasons you see the authors' mocks all containing early-round defensive ends.
8. Melvin Fowler - $3.3M to be a back-up to Duke Preston. I can understand if we brought in an established guy and had Fowler back him up, but Duke Preston? I am shocked he's not higher on the list. But then again, we had a lot of candidates this year.
7. Roscoe Parrish - Four million dollars = 2 TD. I love watching him return punts, but he is vastly overpaid if that's all he's gonna do. One of the scores was his awesome punt return on opening day; the other, a receiving TD. He caught 24 balls for 232 yards, but he got paid a million more bucks this year than Josh Reed did, and Reed is a consistent receiver.
6. Donte Whitner - He was the seventeenth-highest paid safety in the league and one of the least impactful. Only one pass defended and no interceptions? At least he had a sack. It's bizarre that he's only sixth on the list!
5. Aaron Schobel - Aaron Schobel earned $1.75M per game he actually played this year. I wish I had that job. One sack, one pass defended, and 18 tackles is pretty measly. How did he only land at number five? I shudder to continue. How is this guy so low on the list?
4. J.P. Losman - Not only did he rarely help the Bills (TD bomb in Arizona comes to mind) but more often than not he hurt them. His audible-INT from the three yard line in Toronto turned a winnable game into an embarrassment. He made $3M: that's $600k per game played, $200k for every sack he took, or $1.5 million per TD pass and quarterbacks ahead of him on the depth chart at the end of the year.
3. Chris Kelsay - I initially had Kelsay ranked behind Losman simply because he actually did something for the team this year. Then I looked at it a little more objectively and saw his salary cap hit and couldn't keep him any lower. He earned $2.5M per sack. Two. Point. Five. Million. Dollars. PER SACK! He is paid to get to the QB and failed. He had 33 tackles to come in behind epic defenders named Ko Simpson, Ryan Denney, and Bryan Scott on the Bills' stat sheet. I can't fathom paying him $5M for this production next year, but at least he contributed something.
1b. John McCargo - McCargo made over $1.5M last year for this stat line; nada. NOTHING. Steve Johnson, the WR, had at least one tackle. I, Matt Warren, had as many sacks, tackles, and INTs as John McCargo. Can I have $1.5 million, please?
1a. Angelo Crowell - He earned a shade under $2M to record no stats. His decision to have surgery the week before the season put a big dent in the Bills' plans. Even if he has come back in a couple months, the surgery could have been performed earlier in the off-season. The Worst Bang for the Dollar Bill award goes to Angelo Crowell and his wasted money.
Go ahead and make your own lists and post them in the comments. I look forward to hearing from the Kelsay crowd.
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Comments
How is Schobel not #1? He did no more than Crowell and made 4-5x as much.
Ryan Denney shouldn’t be on there over Spencer Johnson. Johnson was, how shall I say it, useless? What did that guy do this year? The only time I remember seeing him was running on and off the field.
1. Schobel
2. Kelsay
3. Dockery (how is he not in your top 10?)
4. Evans
5. Whitner
6. Crowell
7. McCargo
8. Fowler
9. Sp. Johnson
10. Losman
11. Parrish
12. Royal
13. Walker
14. Preston
Is there any wonder why this team sucks so much? Holy $&@#, what a bunch of overpaid, underachievers. When you’ve got cap hits of over $20M total on your DE’s (Johnson included here) and you get a grand total of 9 sacks between the 4 of them, you are doing a TERRIBLE job of evaluating talent. Sigh
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Feb 13, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
agree with K
sigh as well …………meh. just pathetic
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 13, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When you’ve got cap hits of over $20M total on your DE’s (Johnson included here) and you get a grand total of 9 sacks between the 4 of them, you are doing a TERRIBLE job of evaluating talent. Sigh
meh
so true – so true. The sentence of the day award goes to K
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 13, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speeeeech K,
Don’t get nervous, just speak from the heart :-)
Teach your children about the four seasons: preseason, regular season, postseason, and off-season
by Joe P. on Feb 13, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I, uh, just want to, uh, um, thank the committee, and uh, I’m honored to, uh, be recognized for, uh, my service. I, uh, wouldn’t be here, uh, without the, uh, support of, uh, my fans. Thank you.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Feb 13, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot to thank your mom :-(
Teach your children about the four seasons: preseason, regular season, postseason, and off-season
by Joe P. on Feb 13, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol – that was funny too.
actually amongst my friends and I we always have a “quote of the day”
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 13, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And your coach. Do you love your coach?
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Feb 13, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sentence of the day award
I agree the sentence of the day came from K, but I thought it was for either one of the following two sentences:
Is there any wonder why this team sucks so much? Holy $&@#, what a bunch of overpaid, underachievers.
by thefourwinds on Feb 15, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Walker doesn't belong on your list...
Lynch alone rushed 72 times to the right for 379 yards, 5.26 yard per carry. I’d say Walker did just fine run blocking. Walker only gave up 3 sacks. Walker clearly does not belong on this list.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, the reason Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery, Evans, & Whitner were behind Crowell and McCargo...
When two guys provide zero and zilch, their bang for the buck is zero.
Kelsay did something so even if it’s .000001 bang for the buck it’s better than 0.000000
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TERRIBLE, JUST TERRIBLE
and i don’t mean your article, i mean the salery we pay to useless players.
but how did Dockery not make the list? 6M+ for a guy that can’t pass block? i’d take out Denny and replace him by Dock. At least Denny lead the team in sack… god i just pucked a little.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 13, 2009 2:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Explanations on who I left off:
Dockery – Should be under Honorable mentions. According to some figures he was the worst LG in the league at pass blocking allowing 8.25 sacks in his 16 starts. Those same stats have Alan Faneca and Steve Hutchinson, two Pro Bowl guards, both at 7.0 sacks allowed. Kurupt’s probably right that he should be ranked on the list.
Spencer Johnson – 31 tackles, $3.5M – you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see that he made a little over $100k per tackle. Not on the list just because I thought guys were ahead of him.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 2:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm slightly confused
If Dockery gave up only 1.25 more sacks than Faneca and Hutchinson (and they’re Pro Bowlers), how was he that terrible?
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 13, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's more of an indichment on the Pro Bowl system rewrading "name recognition" over performance
They all gave up a lot of sacks. Hutchinson and Faneca’s teams had big years rushing the ball.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
indictment
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, now I follow your line of thinking.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 13, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ABSOLUTELY
PATHETIC. Lots of money being GIVEN AWAY.
Hey Rumblers – Does this article not SCREAM underproduction as a result of POOR COACHING??
The time to deliver is now and if you fail to do so you will no doubt witness the consequences first hand.
by Cutter3636 on Feb 13, 2009 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it does...
Can you blame coaching for McCargo or Crowell? No.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Rumblers – Does this article not SCREAM underproduction as a result of POOR COACHING??
Some yes, some no. Mostly, it just screams poor talent evaluation, but two of the guys were hurt this year, and several others were backups.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Feb 13, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i say it screams poor talent evaluation
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 13, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Amazing how good the drafts look until they actually play a few years. Then they don’t look so good. Its time to get a new scouting dept and at risk of repeating the same ol’ story…the coaching staff needs to go. Out with the old and in with the new regime did so much for Arizona and Baltimore, as well as most of the playoff teams this year. Is it possible to rebuild without rebuilding?
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by JTM1023 on Feb 13, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hiring that guy who helped make the Chargers a good team by being their National Scout
should help us out there, but were going to need some more time to fix the holes in this dam…..
I told the witch doctor that I was in love with the Buffalo Bills, and instead of telling me to say "Oh eeh oh oh ah, ting tang walla walla wing bang" in order to make me feel better he told me to buy a gun and end it.
by WABillsfan on Feb 13, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nix...
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutly not
I dont get why so many ppl are down on our coachs. We rose in EVERY important category this year, EVERY SINGLE ONE! Some rather drastically too! That IMO tells me that the coachs are doing a good job… or at least a decent one.
Ok DJ is deffinatly not the best coach in the league, but he is in no means the worst either. I think the Bills’ biggest problem this year was lack of execution. How many blow coverages, missed blocking assignments and just plain stupid moves did we see from our players this year? It’s not the coach’s fault if the players don’t run the play properly, it’s the players fault!
And I don’t think that it’s coincidence that the players that messed up the most plays end up on this list either. The Bills have too many players that are just there for the paycheck (Kelsey, Losman, McCargo, Parrish, Dockery…)
I think the Bills have much bigger issues than bad coaching, and to blame the coachs for the bad playing is just dumb.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 13, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet we finished 7-9, again, against the 31st toughest schedule.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Feb 13, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say that there wasn’t any blame to put on the coachs, simply that it doesn’t only rest on them. I honestly think the biggest issue is lack of execution.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 13, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
K.......seriously.....
I have a blog-crush on you………
Its like your my mind twin……….
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 13, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m flattered and scared
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Feb 14, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t just look at one season and put a guy who was placed on IR at number 1. By your same logic Crowell should have been a bang for the buck champion in previous seasons when he was producing well above his contract
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
by poz on Feb 13, 2009 2:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well I didn't do that article last year....
I did it this year and for his paycheck he delivered nothing this year. Plus the timing of his surgery was unnecessary. He has been bothered by this injury for years according to him. WHy not take care of it last January?
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just feel like
putting a guy who was on IR and did nothing ahead of a guy who played every single game and did nothing (Kelsay) isn’t accurate. The guy who played and did nothing should be higher.
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
by poz on Feb 13, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, it’s not Crowell’s fault he was put on season-ending IR (well, directly anyway). He could have contributed.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 13, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zero for $$$$
they are first. You don’t have to like it and can make your own list but if you were the boss and a paid a guy money and received nothing in return you would say that wasn’t very good. If you got little in return you would have said that wasn’t very good but not as bad as the other guy who gave me nothing.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if I had a worker
who broke his leg and was unable to help on a construction project but a guy who was completely healthy and didnt do much I would consider the guy who was a healthy a bigger drain on resources
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
by poz on Feb 13, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you paid them the same but got less work out of one....
Especially if the guy who broke his leg could have avoided it (ala Crowell getting surgery earlier) you’d be making a mistake.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom Line
Zero production for all that cash?!?!?! It can’t continue. Injuries are one thing and can’t be helped, but guys like McCargo, Whitner, Schobel and Kelsay need to be replaced. Way too much pay for little or no production. I would bet the practice squad guys would achieve the same if not more. They don’t even get the minumum do they?
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by JTM1023 on Feb 13, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if they get called up for more than 8 games, then they go to the league minimum, which is like 500k
I told the witch doctor that I was in love with the Buffalo Bills, and instead of telling me to say "Oh eeh oh oh ah, ting tang walla walla wing bang" in order to make me feel better he told me to buy a gun and end it.
by WABillsfan on Feb 13, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Schobel has never missed a game before this year.
Crowell, as much as I bashed him on this post, has also been healthy until this year.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Royal/Reed/Dockery
I certainly think Royal, Reed, and Dockery belong on that list ahead of Whitner, Evans, and Denney (not that they were anything to write home about either)…Reed and Royal made just about the same as Whitner and Denney and they had to rank in the bottom third for their role on the team when compared to their peers while my guess is that Denney and Whitner were average for their roles on the team compared to their peers around the league. How many starting WRs in the NFL made close to 3 million last year and didn’t catch more than 1 TD pass or gain at least 600 yards like Reed? How many starting TEs in the NFL made more than 2 million and were outscored by their backups who played half as many snaps? I doubt many. What exactly did Dockery do well last year at more than 6 million a year? I think Denney, Whitner, and Evans came much closer to earning their salaries than those three stiffs.
The passing of the torch is finally complete.
by Benjamin Salem on Feb 13, 2009 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
I think Reed was money for this team when they needed him to be. He was their third down guy and he never entered my mind to be put on this list.
Marques Colston ($ 3,142,810) – 47 rec., 760 yards, 5 TD
Justin Gage ($ 3,128,480 ) – 34 rec., 651 yards, 6 TD
Joe Jurevicious ($ 3,062,500 ) – 50 rec., 614 yards, 3 TD
Reggie Brown ($ 2,960,708 ) – 18 rec., 252 yards, 1 TD (played 7 games)
Josh Reed (2.925M) 56 rec., 597 yards, 1 TD
Mike Furrey ($ 2,906,240) – 18 rec., 181 yards, 0 TD (7 games)
Michael Clayton ($ 2,856,947) – 38 rec., 484 yards, 1 TD
Javon Walker ($ 2,834,293) – 15 rec., 196 yards, 1 TD
Ernest Wilford ($ 2,505,640) – 3 rec., 25 yards, 0 TD
Of this list, who do you want on your team? Don’t even think I cherry-picked. I took the 4 guys above and below Reed on the cap hit list from USAToday. Colston and Gage are the only two I take over Reed.
If you are smart and Trent is the QB you want Reed on my team.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW - Reed doesn't belong on this overpaid.
He’d be better on the underpaid list according to this little chart.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reed
I’ll ask again- how many STARTING WRs made close to 3 million and had less than 600 yards and 2 TDs? By that list, maybe Clayton and Reggie Brown apply, but I doubt they got the snaps that Reed got last year. If you’re talking about overpaid, I think you need to consider Value Over Replacement Player. I would hope that if Buffalo took 3 million dollars to sign a veteran WR this offseason, they’d get plenty more in terms of production. If Reed was a 3rd wideout, making half what he makes now that would be one thing- but bang for your buck? I think he did worse than Whitner or Denney.
The passing of the torch is finally complete.
by Benjamin Salem on Feb 13, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I compared guys who made the same as him...
The point of the post is he performed better than his contract or worse… It’s obvious that by comparison he didn’t under-perform his contract.
Whitner did nothing for this team this year and played a hell of a lot more snaps than Reed.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 13, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many starting WRs in the NFL made close to 3 million last year and didn’t catch more than 1 TD pass or gain at least 600 yards like Reed?
Obviously there weren’t many starting WRs who caught as few TDs as Reed did. But Deion Branch, Chad Johnson, Roy Williams, Plaxico Burress, Chris Chambers, Amani Toomer, Ronald Curry, Jerry Porter, Drew Bennett, Kevin Curtis, Roscoe Parrish, Joey Galloway, Andre Davis and Reggie Brown all had a higher cap number and fewer yards than Reed. That list also doesn’t include players on IR like Nate Burleson and Joe Jurevicious. So of the 40 WRs who had a higher cap hit then Reed, 16 of them had fewer yards then Reed did.
And that is just the salary cap. Javon Walker, Antwaan Randle El, Erenst Wilford, Brandon Stokely, Patrick Crayton, Donte Stallworth and Reggie Williams all signed contracts with a bigger per year average then Reed and had fewer catches and yards then Reed did.
Considering that Reed missed a few games and the Bills were in the bottom third in the league in pass attempts, I don’t know how you can consider Reed to be overpaid. He is what he is, he is a decent underneath possesion receiver, but he is also compensated like one.
by kaisertown on Feb 13, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed Kaiser
Reed is what he is, our best possession option since we can’t rely on Robert “butter arms” Royal to be that move the chains guy, so we pay Reed to be that person.
I told the witch doctor that I was in love with the Buffalo Bills, and instead of telling me to say "Oh eeh oh oh ah, ting tang walla walla wing bang" in order to make me feel better he told me to buy a gun and end it.
by WABillsfan on Feb 13, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's baaaaaaccckkkk
I thought you were just about past your Josh Reed hate issues. Guess not.
Let’s see, Josh Reed made $2.925M per TD, Lee Evans made $3.94M per TD. Ouch.
Why won’t you just give Reed credit for what he is? A good, underneath possession receiver. It’s too bad he didn’t play 16 games. His stats would have projected to 69 catches for 735 yards over 16 games. That’s not bad for a #2 WR in a horrendous offense.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Feb 14, 2009 2:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously.
Josh Reed certainly has his good points.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 14, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chech out my fanpost in response to Salem.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 14, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my list of the Bottom 6
Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. Owner and President
Russ Brandon Chief Operating Officer
Jim Overdorf Senior Vice President of Football Administration
Linda Bogdan Vice President/Assistant Director of College Scouting
Tom Modrak Vice President of College Scouting
Dick Jauron Head Coach
by jpheff on Feb 14, 2009 11:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well that just has nothing to do with the salary cap....
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 14, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Those are the people ultimately responsible for the cap.
by jpheff on Feb 14, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
right but not their production...
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 14, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they evaluate and forecast production.
by jpheff on Feb 14, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
right but the post is about production vs. pay
not future production vs what we think we should pay them in the future.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 14, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well it's your post, so whatever
However, what you pay them is always for the future; that is what a contract is. They are not retroactive. Management is forecasting the future productivity of a player, gauging the market, and putting the money out based on that.
The Bills team just happens to be terrible at it. As a Bills fan for fan for 48 years, only Bill Polian could overcome the liability called Ralph Wilson (NFL HoF.)
by jpheff on Feb 14, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right but I did another post on best bang for the buck
did you give these guys credit for the contracts on the other post?
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 14, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not harping on Josh Reed this year because I am no longer able to buy that Jauron has built this roster to the point where we’re a weapon or two away from contending like I tried to do last year. I think this team needs to be demolished and built from the ground up. But if you’re making a list of unproductive players on the Bills, not including Reed is a joke. I’m sorry, but you can’t ignore the lone touchdown stat, kaisertown, simply moving on from there. 1 touchdown in two years from a starting NFL WR is beyond inept and 3 million dollars a year demands much more…if Buffalo’s the type of team that can afford a 3 million dollar security blanket for our wishy washy starting QB, than I have no problem with Reed as an overpaid and mediocre 3rd receiver. But Josh Reed getting paid like a starter and being the #2 receiver for the last two years sure as hell is linked to our offense’s futility just as much as Turk Schonert, Steve Fairchild, Duke Preston, Melvin Fowler, Robert Royal, and JP Losman- he’s just as overmatched in his role as those whipping boys are. He just isn’t good enough for that role no matter how much Bills fans like him because they identify with him because he’s short, slow, and untalented. He may be a nice guy like Chris Kelsay, JP Losman, and Dick Jauron, but he’s had his chance to succeed and he’s simply not good enough period.
The passing of the torch is finally complete.
by Benjamin Salem on Feb 14, 2009 12:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
linked to our offense’s futility just as much as Turk Schonert, Steve Fairchild, Duke Preston, Melvin Fowler, Robert Royal, and JP Losman- he’s just as overmatched in his role as those whipping boys are. He just isn’t good enough for that role no matter how much Bills fans like him because they identify with him because he’s short, slow, and untalented. He may be a nice guy like Chris Kelsay, JP Losman, and Dick Jauron, but he’s had his chance to succeed and he’s simply not good enough period.
There’s a lot that I disagree with in those four lines, man.
The only true-blue link to offensive futility in Buffalo is inconsistent and rarely excellent quarterback play. Bottom line.
I really think you’ve got an obscure view on Bills’ fans opinions of Reed. We don’t like him because we identify with him. We like him because he has made clutch plays and has a good rapport with Edwards. He’s not a “fan favorite” by any stretch of anyone’s imagination, and I can’t fathom where that perspective would even come from. He might be the 15th guy on most Bills fans’ “favorite Bills” list.
You also seem to completely disregard the notion that Reed wasn’t signed to his current deal to be a starter. He’s kind of had to assume the starter by default role thanks to the Peerless Price trade, the release of Eric Moulds, the slow development of James Hardy, the ill-advised re-signing of Peerless Price, etc. etc. Bottom line on Reed is he’s not a starter, and shouldn’t be treated as such.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 14, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly think your view of the players and coaches who support the QB is wildly numbed, Brian. I look at a no name player like Matt Cassell who steps in for Brady and New England’s offense is still top notch. You seem to argue most of time that the coaching staff has very little to do with the output of this team and to a lesser extent, you seem to argue that the Reeds of the world only get more productive with better QB play when I think better coaching and personnel can seriously help Edwards. If that’s your logic, I think we need an upgrade over Edwards because nothing about him thus far looks like he’ll win games by himself.
The passing of the torch is finally complete.
by Benjamin Salem on Feb 14, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The first five games of the year Edwards played out of his mind...
and the Bills won.
Therefore Brian’s argument makes sense since very consistent QB play helped the Bills succeed.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 14, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re mixing last season and the last decade together in your arguments. Last season, Edwards wasn’t the only problem offensively. Obviously. Over the past six-seven years, QB play has by far been the biggest problem, because we’ve shuffled about 92 of them in and out of the lineup.
I’m not saying better coaching and personnel wouldn’t help Edwards. There comes a point when a QB can carry an offense. Take Roethlisberger for example – he won his first Super Bowl by not screwing up. He won the second one with the team on his shoulders (though, obviously, he still had a lot of help from that defense). Edwards is still at the point where coaching and personnel matter, because he’s not experienced or confident enough to make the players around him better. If he ever gets to that point, personnel and coaching become much less relevant.
So essentially I agree with you that for right now, Edwards needs more help, in both facets (coaching and personnel). But over the long haul, if Edwards develops into the QB we all hope he can be, having a perfect coach and the best set of skill position players in the league becomes less important.
What does this have to do with Josh Reed? :)
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 14, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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