A Case for the Bills pursuing SS Sean Jones
by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 2:30 PM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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Most fans of the Buffalo Bills, at this point in the off-season game, have their eyes set on a free agent or two as well as a handful of NFL Draft prospects as their "favorites". Everyone has at least one guy that they'd love to see the team bring in.
Speaking solely from a free agency standpoint, I'd like to make the case for Browns safety Sean Jones topping your lists.
Before you go all "Buffalo needs a center!" or "Buffalo needs a defensive end!" or "Buffalo needs a linebacker!" on me, hear me out. Jones is a young, physical talent that offers one ability that the Bills lack severely on the defensive side of the ball: the ability to make big plays.
Jones' status in Cleveland
Our SB Nation sister (brother?) blog, Dawgs By Nature, is reporting today via the Cleveland Plain-Dealer that Jones - who will turn 27 this March - is unlikely to be franchised by the new regime in Cleveland. The reason? The team is expected to pay off a $5 million bonus due to QB Derek Anderson in an effort to make the veteran quarterback a more covetable trade commodity, limiting the money they can spend on someone with the franchise tag.
The 6'1", 220-pound Jones has enjoyed three straight productive years in Cleveland. A starter each season, Jones has recorded at least four interceptions each season, forced two fumbles, picked up a sack and amassed 263 tackles. Though he's played strong safety each season (and that's the position at which his skills are the best fit), it's believed that Jones has the range in coverage to play the free safety spot as well.
So let's add it up here: big, physical, durable (he's missed just four games, all last season), and a playmaker. If this guy isn't on Buffalo's radar already, the team would do well to put him there now.
Where he'd fit in Buffalo
Many Bills fans point to the fact that the team already has five safeties with distinct roles as reason that the team should, and likely won't, pursue a safety this off-season. It's hard to disagree with the evidence, but I'll certainly disagree with the theory. Many who frequent the site know my very public opinion on Donte Whitner: he's a good player and a good guy, but he has no true position and he's certainly not a playmaker. Then there's Ko "I Am Worth Millions!" Simpson, whose on-field impact is quite obviously more spectacular in his head than in ours. RFA George Wilson is nothing more than a spot contributor and excellent special teams ace; reserve John Wendling is everything Wilson is minus the "spot contributor".
Arguably the team's most consistent and productive safety, veteran Bryan Scott, hasn't started a full season at safety since 2005 and has just four career interceptions - all of which he picked up in Atlanta. The Bills have some players at safety, there's no doubt about it. But they don't have that game-changing playmaker to turn what is already a pretty talented secondary into an elite one. Jones is that guy.
Pursuing S over C, DE, LB, etc.
Many fans might argue that Buffalo's most dire needs (center, defensive end and strong-side linebacker in particular) are, as much higher priorities on the proverbial "needs list", positions that must be addressed before safety via free agency. I could not disagree with this sentiment more.
Clearly, if you can add a playmaker at your most desperate position of needs, you do what you need to do to make it happen. But centers are not playmakers. Centers are certainly important, but a good center does not a championship-worthy team make. I'm a believer that defensive end is as important to a defense as quarterback is to an offense, but there isn't an awful lot of impact to be found at the position this off-season. There are quality linebackers to be had - Seattle's Leroy Hill, Atlanta's Michael Boley and Miami's Channing Crowder lead the way (at least on my list) - but in Buffalo's scheme, how much value can even the best playmaking linebacker add?
Filling needs is nice, but finding impact players is a far better idea. In Buffalo's scheme, linebackers can't have the same playmaking impact on a game-by-game basis than a difference-making safety can. Also, if you're doubting the value of a safety, take a look at the four conference finalists this season as proof that good safeties are found on great teams (PIT - Troy Polamalu, BAL - Ed Reed, ARI - Adrian Wilson, PHI - Brian Dawkins). (Of course, the same argument can be applied to the linebacker position as well, but none of these teams run Buffalo's scheme, and safeties are far easier to plug into new schemes than linebackers are.)
Is Jones worth the investment?
Personally, Jones sits atop my free agent targets list. His physicality is something that Buffalo's secondary currently lacks, and obviously his ability to make plays on the ball is something that, in reality, the entire team lacks. To me, Jones appears to be the perfect complement to Whitner - his physicality complements Whitner's speed; his playmaking complements Whitner's versatility in matchups; his versatility allows the Bills to keep Whitner moving around. With Wilson and Scott as reserves surrounded by a young but talented cornerback group, signing Jones would give Buffalo one of the best young secondaries in the league. More importantly, it'd give the Bills a defender that can make things happen.
Please don't read this as me being averse to signing a center or a linebacker via free agency (I think we can safely rule out adding any true impact at defensive end or tight end). There are centers (Jason Brown and Matt Birk) and linebackers (Hill, Boley, Crowder) that would look fabulous in Bills uniforms. But ultimately, the Bills should be chasing impact this season, not hole-pluggers. Hole-pluggers don't take teams to the playoffs. Playmakers do. Jones is one of the best playmakers available via free agency this season at a position of relative weakness for Buffalo. His potential addition makes too much sense to pass off the position he plays as a "non-need".
You are, of course, welcome to debate this one with me, folks. Who sits atop your free agent lists?
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And, for those of you curious, here is Jones’ scouting report courtesy of Scouts, Inc.
Jones is the Browns’ starting strong safety. He is big, physical and talented. His season was somewhat up and down in 2007, but he really put himself on the map in 2006 as an impact player. Too many tight ends got behind Jones last season, particularly early in the season, but he remains a formidable starter in this league. While 2007 was somewhat of a down year for Jones, he is still a very consistent producer and one of the more productive safeties in the NFL over the past two seasons. He produces a lot of tackles as an extra defender in the box and intercepts more than his share of passes with excellent anticipation and soft hands. As strong safeties go, Jones has good range and isn’t a liability when asked to cover a deep half of the field, but his deep ball skills are still a work in progress. He is an enforcer who hits with power. Against the run, he is an immediate force, but can be too aggressive when dealing with play-action. He also blitzes well. Mentally, Jones is still a work in progress, but from a size, speed and production standpoint, he is impressive and his best work might still be ahead of him.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 2:30 PM EST reply actions
Don’t care. Obviously you don’t want to go overboard, but he’s good enough to reach “break the bank” territory. It’s not like our safeties are making a ton of money as it is, so we can afford to give out a $30-$40million deal for this guy.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
You can't say "don't care."
You know as well as I do that it is very important. I like the guy myself, and wouldn’t be adverse to signing him. Matter of fact, I like cherry picking from teams that were bad the year before – their perceived value might be lower.
I’m assuming your game plan (as it has been) is to give Mr. Millions a free ride to the airport, correct?
Anyway, the money has to be right for both. I could live with four for 24. That would put him (this year) in the top five I think. While I don’t think he’s a top five safety, it’s more than fair money, and it might actually be a bit too much.
I believe that the franchise tag value for safeties is $6.3 million, if I’m remembering the DBN report correctly. So your 4 years, $24 million contract (with maybe 8-10 of that guaranteed) flies well, and I’d be perfectly willing to pay it. It’s just Chris Kelsay money, after all. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
It's good money for him...
and for us. Now he may get blown out of the water somewhere else and I wouldn’t like to see us make him the highest paid safety in the league or anything.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 18, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I almost wish I would have amended my original “offer” now. I think it’s too much for a guy who isn’t in the top five.
League wide – wear would you rank him? If you can positively say he’s in the top ten, then I’m willing to give him that money. If not, we have to take some loot off of that sheet of paper.
Also, the reason I went with four years is because of his age. That way, if I were him, I’d be 31 when the contract ended, and still have a chance to get a nice deal for the next contract. If you offered him 5-7 years, this would likely be his last “big” contract. I wouldn’t want that if I were him.
I think I’d put him at 8. Adrian Wilson, Ed Reed, Bob Sanders, Reggie Nelson, Kerry Rhodes, Troy Polamalu, Michael Griffin, Sean Jones. In no particular order. There are some other guys (Atogwe, Eric Weddle, Nick Collins, Laron Landry and Ken Hamlin as examples) that are borderline, and aging vets (Dawkins, Rodney Harrison, Roy Williams) that I think Jones has surpassed.
I don’t think I’m missing anybody there…
He’s worth the 5-6 million/year range, IMO.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta Agree with Brian here
I think he would deffinatly be worth 6M per year and he would be the first safety that i would go after if Atogwa stays in St-Louis.
He is a top tier safety, deffinatly top ten, and we could use help at the position, and he’d deffinatly solidify the safety spot for the next 5 years, so why not give it a shot?.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 18, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Did you forget Whitner in there? Ha. Just kidding.
I don’t think you missed anybody. Maybe Tanard Jackson and Chris Hope? Do Deon Grant and Darren Sharper fit in that aging vet category too?
I think one thing that needs to be considered here is how much the secondary as a whole is getting paid. Whitner and McKelvin both have decent sized contracts. If you’re content to let Greer walk this year and McGee next year, then I’m okay with it. But, they better be sure Corner and Youboty are up to task.
Here’s another thing. I’d like to briefly introduce the concept of extending Youboty, upon certain conditions of course.
Hope is a good one, but I think Griffin’s even better. Tennessee’s got themselves a hell of a pair of safeties (and incidentally, their third, Vincent Fuller, is another FA S I like).
My plan all along has been to let Greer walk.
Whitner’s deal was 5 years and $29 million, but he’s only got two years left on that deal, and he’s not even going to make $5M in base salary over the next two seasons. McKelvin’s was 5 years and $20 million. Don’t forget that McGee is going to make a cool $3M this year, too.
Youboty’s entering the final year of his deal, so I wouldn’t be averse to giving him a modest extension (very modest) if he’s a legitimate part of the long-term plans. It’s unlikely, though, considering his penchant for finding himself on IR.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Youboty should have some serious playing incentives built into his contract. The reason he’s not starting is because you can’t make plays from the bench.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 18, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
The reason he’s not starting is because you can’t make plays from the bench.
Well, yeah…
I think “You can’t make plays from IR” is more pertinent.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
The Pats have been doing it for years......
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 18, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I prefer Greer over McGee personally. He’s taller and much more of a press CB than TM. Aside from the fact that he hasn’t started a full season since ‘05, why can’t Scott be the SS?
Moreover, remember that much of the $33M cap space we have could be eaten up by Peters and that we will have to re-sign Edwards after two years to in all likelihood a mega deal (if he really is our “QB of the Future”).
Are you bananas?
Doesn’t it seem odd to you that none of our safeties have been the “playmakers” you want? So why is Sean Jones supposed to come in here and start making interceptions on the opportunities that our current safeties haven’t had? I like Sean Jones a lot too, but you can’t load the team up with those crazy contracts, especially considering Whitner makes so much. I like him at $5 million a year, but after that you’re starting to push it. Now, if you told me we cut Chris Kelsay and signed Sean Jones I wouldn’t give a damn how much we signed him for, either.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 18, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
So why is Sean Jones supposed to come in here and start making interceptions on the opportunities that our current safeties haven’t had?
Simply put, because he’s already done it. Cleveland’s pass rush has been as bad as Buffalo’s, yet he’s got 14 interceptions in the last 3 years. Dude makes plays regardless of what’s around him.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Dramatically
different defensive scheme broseph
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 18, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
… and? You’re saying that Whitner would have had 14 picks if he played in a terrible 3-4 like Cleveland’s? Consider me skeptical.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
I am all for this move.
I am a fan of anything that makes the Bills better. This upgrades the SS position (thus moving Whitner to FS, something the Bills may actually do). This probably also spells disaster for Ko Simpson as a Bill.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
This probably also spells disaster for Ko Simpson as a Bill.
Haha. If that’s a side effect of making this move, then yeah, make it.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Consider it a signing bonus!!!
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
Yes we should get rid of Ko, but do you really think OBD will have the onions to admit that they screwed up by taking him in the 4th a few years ago? Jones should be a Bill, BUT only if the money is right. I say $18.75M/4 w/ $6.5M guaranteed.
They cut a 4th round pick after one season (Dwayne Wright). Why can’t they do it to a guy who’s been poor for 3 seasons?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
nice cite of precedent
Cutting a 4th rounder is not a big deal
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 19, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
This is sort of a tangent, but maybe not really...
This move clearly does beef up the secondary, and add a decent playmaker. And it does give Buffalo a very nice young to medium nucleus back there for the next few years. So speaking of the next few years…
Who made the call to sign Greer and trade McKee McGee? I’m kind of thinking I like that idea the more I think about it. With McAllister and Bly on the market now, it’s becoming a buyer’s market. Has Oakland tagged Naumbusay Abrahamamacka yet? Anyway, I think Greer’s chances of getting that 7/8 million dollar a year deal look slimmer by the day. In fact, I think a fair deal for him would be in the 5 1/2 to 6 million range. And if that’s the case, I think they should really explore any McGee trade options before FA starts and Greer is on the market.
i know i’ve said that – Poz too.
Sign Greer – trade McGee (we’re gonna lose McGee next year or pay a good amount of $$ for a 30 year old CB).
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 18, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
If you know of someone who wants to absorb a 29-year-old, injury prone corner for $4 million and compensate Buffalo fairly for said player, I’d love to hear who that is. Then I will laugh at them.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
well obviously it could be here’s a 4th terrence mcgee chris kelsay for Dansby and a 3rd or something convoluted like that
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 18, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
HAHA. That trade would never happen, and it wouldn’t be close.
McGee isn’t being moved for players unless he comes with, say, Marshawn Lynch. But that ain’t happening. McGee might net us a fourth round pick. That’s about all you should expect.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
lol – i know – thats why i said convoluted.
regardless
Yeah, I have no problem letting him walk next year for nothing
we just have different opinions on that topic – thats all
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 18, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, a 4th rounder can become yet another Wright/Simpson, ROCK ON!
I told the witch doctor that I was in love with the Buffalo Bills, and instead of telling me to say "Oh eeh oh oh ah, ting tang walla walla wing bang" in order to make me feel better he told me to buy a gun and end it.
So you’re ok with letting McGee walk next year for absolutely nothing? I think there has to be some kind of a market for him. Scout’s has got him at #30, but I think he’s better than that.
Yeah, I have no problem letting him walk next year for nothing. We signed him once. I wouldn’t mind us signing him again, to be honest.
Leo’s the future at this position. What’s to stop us from just adding a different player next off-season, too? We don’t have to have a backup plan at every position…
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you
It doesn’t take a phenomenal ability to be passable in our defensive scheme. Chances of McGee or Greer looking good elsewhere is almost none, unless they went to TB or Indianapolis. Any first day draft pick could probably step in and do just fine. Would we really be in trouble if by week 8 our starting tandem was Youboty and McKelvin? I don’t think so.
Aren't the Texans in need of CB help?
Don’t they have something to trade in return? If Buffalo sits tight at #11 I can see trading McGee and a 4th for Owen Daniels…if the Texans can be snookered into the arrangement.
Houston won’t trade Daniels, especially not for Terrence McGee.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yea
I threw out the idea of trading McGee in a post and I know J2 has been harping it too. I still stand by that idea. I think we can resign Greer and trade McGee by packaging him with a pick to move up in the draft. I think McGee and a 4th gets us another second rounder. Our 2nd and McGee gets us back into the first round to get Mack. Considering he’s leaving soon anyway trade him while he has value. He’s my least favorite player among Greer, Youboty, McKelvin. Those guys are the future.
As for the topic Brian posted, Jones has become my number 1 tier 1 target if Brown doesn’t make it to the market. Even if he does, Jones for me is the one free agent we should spend big dollars on. He is very very good and will make Donte better. Plus, the draft is still the best way to address defensive end and center if we can get two firsts. Orakpo – Mack. You can always resign Crowell if you need to and tight end can be had in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones is the man in free agency.
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
For the record...
I’m saying Jason Brown would be my #1 big splash/only splash signing.
I thought it was you Poz who threw that out – my bad for not remembering (must have been hanging out with “Bong Mode”). I like the idea myself, especially for this reason:
“Considering he’s leaving soon anyway trade him while he has value.”
I applaud that way of thinking ahead.
must have been hanging out with "Bong Mode"
HAHA so it begins! haha, great stuff.
Jason Brown would be so sweet.
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
Trading Players
Isn’t there usually only one or two big player trades a year? I would imagine McGee would only fetch a 5th through 7th round pick. That seems to be what most players go for. We have to remember that most of our players, no matter how valuable they might be to us because we know them, are not worth anything in a trade. Almost every team would rather pick a rookie in the draft and roll the dice instead of using the same pick for a player they don’t know. About the only players on our team that would fetch anything decent in a trade are Peters, Lynch, or Edwards. And only Lynch might fetch more than a first rounder. Probably they would get much less than that, or would have escalators in the trade conditions.
Sign me up
I’d be happier if Greer were also retained though.
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"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 18, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions
Getting both is unlikely. Jones is a better player than Greer. If they’re signing one DB to a biggish deal this off-season, give me Jones every time.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I think Johes at SS and Whitner at FS makes this team MUCH more formidable. Plug in a big LB and a sack-specialist and that defense is off and running.
I know that Greer isn’t as elite as free agency might make him, but he’s been nothing but stellar in his time here. I was huge on the guy the year before he was even noticed much. I will miss him when he leaves.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 18, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
The last time the Bills had a strong safety named Jones....
…the Bills were a great team. Henry Jones wasn’t big but he was a beast. I’m all for another impact player named Jones at SS, assuming that the other pressing needs will somehow get taken care of.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Henry was their best safety ever, imo.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 18, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Jones was protected by Bruce Smith’s pass rushing abilities. QBs couldn’t sit back and wait for holes in coverage to evolve (slowly, not unlike the evolution from water to land mammals) like they can now.
Does anyone think Ed Reed would be half the player he is now if he was on Buffalo’s defense? Does anyone think that Whitner would be less than a stud playing for the Ravens? Keep in mind, Leohnard looked pretty good playing for the Ravens and with their terrific pass rush.
Tag Deadline...
Wasn’t the tag deadline 4:00 PM today?
If so, I haven’t heard any info on Atogwe being tagged. I like Jones, but I would prefer a playmaker like Atogwe(6 forced fumbles, 5 INTs in 2008) then Jones. I think he’d cost money, but I don’t think he’d break the bank.
John I.
Tomorrow.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Sean Jones would be awesome. He is the kind of FA the Bills are likely to target. Good and affordable. Go for it. I like his physicality.
BTW I saw a bottom bar on NFL network last night that t he Ravens will tag Suggs if they cannot reach a long term deal with him.
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
Ravens tag Suggs.
Consider it done: http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/18/ravens-pick-suggs-over-lewis-scott-for-franchise-tag/
That means Jason Brown will be available.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
unless he gets signed in the next week......
just saying. :-)
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 18, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Good thought process, Brian
Safety is a postion that Buffalo can target during free agency. It’s also a position that Buffalo won’t be able to really address in the draft. Why? Well, Buffalo has needs that can’t be met during free agency that will need to be addressed in the draft.
DE must be addressed in the draft as Suggs has been tagged. Peppers will be tagged if Gross signs a deal before this time tomorrow. Plus, Peppers has talked (quite stupidly) about wanting to go to one of 4 teams. One of those teams is in the AFC East but he wants to play on a 3-4 defense. Buffalo, of course, is the only team that doesn’t run the 3-4 in the AFC East. DE is a hole that can only be filled at #11…and even then it probably won’t be an option as the top tier DEs will go in the top 10.
TE must be addressed in the draft. The only guy worth getting (Daniels) won’t be there for the getting. Unless Houston really wants to work a trade for McGee (would throwing in McCargo and Simpson help or hurt the deal?) Buffalo won’t be getting TE help in free agency. Unfortunately, TE is unlikely to be addressed until the 3rd round (or later) unless the Bills trade back from #11….meaning no impact DE.
C could be addressed in free agency or the draft. I, for one, don’t really care all that much how OBD goes about it so long as the position is skillfully manned by a guy who will be there for years. Yes, that means no Matt Birk. Even if a guy like Jason Brown or Brad Meister winds up in Buffalo, I still want to see the Bills draft a C no later than round 3.
LB could be addressed in free agency or the draft. Re-signing DiG probably drops this position a notch or two down the totem pole in free agency. No, I don’t think DiG is the answer and I also don’t think OBD thinks DiG is the answer either. I can, however, see the team drafting a LB…particularly if there isn’t a DE at #11 and the Bills can’t trade out of that spot.
So, with two needs (DE, TE) that can’t be addressed in free agency and two (C, LB) that may or may not be, I can see the Bills targeting a S. Brian delicately described the situation as being one of a series of role players. I’d more bluntly describe it as one of several guys (Wilson, Wendling, Scott) who aren’t able to fill multiple roles. It makes sense to make the secondary (as opposed to just CB) a position of strength, particularly if Buffalo can only fill one other major need (C, DE, LB, TE) through free agency….which I think is the best Bills fans can hope for.
When, not if, the guys we think OBD wants (Brown, Orakpo, Curry, Maybin, Raji, Jenkins) are all taken in the top 10 I am really hoping for a trade down with Philly…netting TE (top), C (top) and DE (well into 2nd tier) in the first two rounds. Having a starting SS and possibly LB from free agency would make for a successful offseaon.
Wait….did I just use the ‘s’ word to describe OBD? I guess I’ll know if my boss reads my ramblings because I’ll have a drug screening order on my desk in the morning…
Re: "throwing in McCargo"
He played with Williams in college, didn’t he? Maybe a re-uniting with his better half might be a good thing…
A couple of thoughts on your thoughts…
- I don’t think it’s impossible to address DE via free agency. I think there are some really solid depth-type players that can rush the passer; I’m thinking of Atlanta’s Chauncey Davis in particular. It’s just not a position that can be filled with the type of impact we need.
- I really don’t think the re-signing of DiGiorgio has an effect on filling SLB, but there’s a point to be made here that could knock it down the list. Signing Jones would give the Bills two terrific in-the-box safeties (Scott being the other). Why couldn’t the Bills moonlight Scott with Ellison at an “OLB” spot, which wouldn’t really technically be an OLB spot, if they can’t find a satisfactory replacement for Crowell/Ellison? Just a thought…
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Am I crazy for thinking Scott did play a little (and I stress the word little) LB last year? At the least, he practiced it, correct?
He did play some on the outside, yes, but it was infrequent enough to not really count. Still, I think he could pull it off in a pinch.
But that doesn’t mean it’s ideal. Because it’s not.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Buffalo already has "depth-type players that can rush the passer"
Adding another in free agency really wouldn’t help the DE position. The Bills need someone who offensive coordinators actually dread playing. With Suggs tagged and Peppers evidently narrowing his choices, Buffalo won’t be getting that sort of DE in free agency. Either the Bills draft a stud DE or give the position another lick and promise.
by Ron From NM on Feb 18, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, which depth player can rush the passer?
I think a player like Chauncey Davis, Jason Babin, Michael Montgomery or Demetric Evans replacing Copeland Bryan and making Ellis and a rookie earn their way up the depth chart can only help this team. Obviously the answer isn’t in FA, but their are ways to improve out there.
The Bills don’t have ANYONE that can rush the passer, let alone depth players that can….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
Sidbury, 4-5th round
HOPEFULLY Brown in Round 1, that takes care of DE allows us to toss Bryan and Kelsay and with Jones signed, makes the D alot better.
I told the witch doctor that I was in love with the Buffalo Bills, and instead of telling me to say "Oh eeh oh oh ah, ting tang walla walla wing bang" in order to make me feel better he told me to buy a gun and end it.
Only the NFL coaching families collective fear of failure
Keeps coaches from trying new (or in this case “College / High School”) thinking that helps their system match the personnel as opposed to the other way around. Sure, some would say that on running plays this is a liability because of a lack of bulk, but in our case I’m sure it would work just fine. Outside of Mitchell and Poz, we have a bunch of safeties (but with lacking coverage skills) playing LB anyway
That's my mindset...
I would love a DE in free agency, but with Suggs being tagged and Peppers being a prima dona, the kind of impact player we need, just isn’t there. Agreed about the TE position too.
So instead of picking up lesser players just because of the need, I think it’s smarter to pick up guys of value who can help the team – even if the position isn’t as pressing as others. Safety is a good position to go after – it’s very deep this year. A vet WR also fits in the same category. Maybe LB as well.
I think a successful free agency would be:
Safety (Starter)
Vet WR (Starter)
Center (Starter) or Linebacker (Starter)
Vet Back-up QB
That would leave DE, TE, FB and C/LB for the draft.
John I.
another option
Would be to grab a vet pass-rusher to add to the rotaton and take a guy with a lot of upside (like Maybin) in round 1 of the draft. To me, it’s not ideal, but it may be the best option left as far as addressing hte pass rush need.
John I.
excuse my spelling
I’ve been doing tedious research all day and i’m not firing on all cylinders right now!
John I.
An oddity
Hey, I just noticed something. (I’m kind of slow.) Why is it that Brian’s articles rarely seem to get rec’d?
And, no, I wouldn’t be asking if I hadn’t remembered to rec this article.
because they are all usually rec worthy so its kind of a given
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
Yeah… I can put whatever I want on the front page. So it really doesn’t serve a function.
However, I would like to start front-paging some more FanPosts, so get writing and rec’ing, folks! :)
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Signing Jones probably wouldn’t be the way I would go if I were running the team, but it is a move that I would be quite happy with. We could do much, much worse than a young safety like Jones. I would rather Buffalo add a great player in FA and ignore a few needs than fill every hole on the roster with average starters.
Jones
I agree that Buffalo needs a safety in a pretty big way and I also agree that I’d prefer a free agent at this position as opposed to a high draft pick (unlike DE and C). While I like Jones, I’d prefer to make a run at Dawan Landry in restricted free agency. Landry is also a playmaker and is probably a little more explosive than Jones in terms of speed and strength from what I’ve seen of the two. I also think Buffalo could sneak in there with Landry and steal a really good player in restricted free agency for a fifth rounder that usually wouldn’t be plausible. Baltimore has Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, and Terrell Suggs already on their plate this offseason and Jim Leonhard played so well filling in for Landry last year that Baltimore might be content to let Landry earn a payday elsewhere. One thing’s clear, Ko Simpson was horrible last year in terms of being a step slow on balls that should have been picked as well as in terms of taking angles on bawll carriers who broke into the secondary. Add in his off the field incident and I’d have cut him to make an example out of him. As it stands now, I’d be content to plug Landry in at SS with Whitner at FS, Scott in subpackages, Wendling for special teams and let Simpson battle his way back on the roster if he’s good enough to beat out Wilson for a backup job. If he isn’t, so long.
Buffalo: Where 0 Super Bowl titles in 43 years and 9 years without the playoffs makes you a Hall of Fame owner, and three straight seasons of 7-9 records earns a coach a raise and a contract extension.
Restricted free agents aren’t easy to bring in. Plus, Leonhard is already a UFA, and Rex Ryan is supposedly hot to trot to bring him into NY (it was Ryan who wanted Leonhard in Baltimore in the first place). Honestly, I think you’re bang on about Landry being close-ish to Jones, but I think we’ve got a better chance of bringing Leonhard back. Which means no chance.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure what his RFA tender from B-more was, but that’s when he was drafted.
Still prefer Jones.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
The Ravens have until April 17th
to tender and have it accepted.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 19, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
6 Safeties?
Folks,
Are we adding a 6th S (assuming George Wilson re-ups)? Or are we not bringing Wilson and/or cutting Ko?
Personally, I break down the roster like this: 53-3 Specialists = 25 per side of the ball (give or take 1-2 spots). Offensively I say 2 QBs, 6 WRs, 9 OLmen, some combo of 8 RBs/FBs/TEs. On Defense-8 DLmen, 7LBs, and 10DBs (which is more than most teams probably would carry on their active roster). Of course these numbers are NOT set in stone, especially if you have versatile/interchangeable parts from one grouping to another (i.e. Jon Corto-just an example I don’t think he’s going to make the 53 man roster this year).
So back to my question: Will we have 6 safeties, and if not who’s gone?
In this scenario, I think it’s pretty mutual that Simpson is gone. 5 safeties and 5 corners is precisely what the Bills carried last year.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 18, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Simpson is probably the odd man out like Brian said, but Wendling and Wilson will both have to earn their spots on next year’s team. It is interesting to note that if Jones is added, you end up with two safeties (Jones and Scott) who are much better fits at SS then FS. So you do need somebody on the roster to backup Whitner and it will come down to, is Simpson better than Wilson on defense and is the difference enough to ignore Wilson’s special teams ability? And then since Wendling probably can’t play defense, is he really worth keeping over two guys who can in Wilson and Simpson? My answer would be that Simpson isn’t much (if any) better on defense than Wilson is and that special teams will win out in Buffalo (they tend to) and Simpson doesn’t make the team.
I know the Bills carried 9 offensive lineman last year, but if they can find a decent interior lineman to back up all three spots (plus Chambers played a little guard last year) then they can easily get away with 8. Most teams only keep 8 offensive lineman.
You could obviously go one less at a bunch of other positions too. You could easily keep 7 RB/FB/TEs. 5 WRs works fine depending on whether Hardy can actually be active and contribute and whether the Bills want a 6th active WR for specials. I like having 7 LBs because they are natural special teamers due to the average size/speed combo that they have, but you could have 6, especially if the three backups you do have are good special teams guys compared to your average backup.
I think the Bills will have to keep 9 DL next year. Considering that Schobel is a lock to make the roster, either Kelsay or Denney will still be here (hopefully Denney over Kelsay), Its too soon to give up on Ellis, the Bills should look for an immediate impact pass rusher in free agency (doesn’t have to be a great player, even someone like Jason Babin would do) and they have to draft somebody, I think the Bills will wind up with 5 DEs and 4 DTs on the roster next year.
3 QBs seems like a lock for next season too. I think the team really likes having Hamdan around holding the clipboard and be Trent’s cheerleader.
As a Browns fan I think a lot of you are over-valuing Jones.
The dude can catch the ball, sure. He’s been a pretty big liability in coverage for the past two years, especially when he is supposed to keep TEs in front of him. He was hurt this year and had to sit out a bunch of games, and when he came back he didn’t look right. Brodney Pool was clearly our better Safety this year. He might be healthy now, but I honestly don’t think 6 or even 5 million/year is worth it. He has made a lot of INTs, but our whole defensive game plan has been “wait in zone coverage and pray the other team throws it to us”, or this year: “hope that Shaun Rogers can defeat a triple team and get a sack while trying to bait the other team in to throwing picks”.
Don’t get me wrong, I hope he re-signs with the Browns, but I don’t think he really deserves the term “playmaker” attached to his name or the kind of money a few of you are talking about. Maybe he will get it and we will have another defensive hole to fill, but if you are looking for him to consistently play like Polamalu, Reed, a healthy Bob Sanders, or even Adrian Wilson, LaRon Landry, or Brian Dawkins, you are probably hoping for too much.
Go root for Buffalo. Eff you.
thanks for your insight...
good to hear from a person that saw him play for most of his career. Sounds like your game plan was very similar to ours, sit back and wait for something to happen. No wonder offenses rack up the yards on our defenses!
John I.
Thanks for the review. Much appreciated….
I myself don’t want to spend top five money on a guy who I’m not sure is even top ten.
I speak for all Bills’ fans when I say – go elf yourself.
P.S. – you have a clutch kicker. How the hell did he make the two kicks in consecutive years against us? Those were two big time kicks…
Dawson is one of the few players we can count on in Cleveland. His kick against Baltimore that bounced back through the uprights was classic as well. He probably doesn’t have the numbers to get a lot of props around the league, but kicking in the kind of weather we can have in Cleveland can be problematic. I am sure you all up in Buffalo can sympathize with that. I have no idea how he does it. Good man, though.
thanks rufio
can I just use rufio’s well written post as an example, Bills fans? You all sit here and complain about our players a lot, and rightfully so, but then you look at other teams players and think they are these be all answers. You just don’t see their weaknesses because you watch all 16 games we play and only see them when they play us, which usually means they will look good. Rufio watches all 16 of Cleveland’s games and whaddaya know? Jones isn’t perfect.
Rufio can I just add, if you are named after the Hook character, greatest name ever.
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
Isn’t it true that the same thing happens elsewhere? Isn’t it true that we’re far more negative about our players than folks outside our city are? It happens everywhere, and one account, while appreciated and helpful, shouldn’t be enough to change minds.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2009 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely, a lot of people were clamoring for us to get Youboty from you guys, remembering his days at tOSU. He would have been better than our 3rd CB, no doubt, but people were acting like he could walk in and lock down the other teams’ best receivers.
The grass is always greener.
Thanks for the insight on that...
I remember when we were talking about him going to the Browns. Good perspective.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 19, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Have you seen him on the TurboTax commercial with Rich Eisen? :)
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
If we signed Jones, could we move Whitner to the bench where he belongs? :)
I’d be all for signing Jones, at the right price. Our friendly Browns fan makes a good point that Jones isn’t at the level that he is being discussed here, and he seems to have a lot of issues with his knees. He’d be a risky signing, for sure.
Now would he be an upgrade over what we have? Yes, of course. I think that’s the biggest reason to go after him. I’m sick of watching mediocre players like Whitner and Simpson populating our secondary. Let’s get a guy who’s had success, even if he’s not Adrian Wilson. He’s still better than our current safeties, probably by a significant margin.
If signed, our two best safeties would be him and Scott, but i can’t see both of them playing at the same time too often. Signing Jones may improve the overall secondary talent more than it would improve our starting combination, if that makes any sense.
Me? I’d offer Jones no more than $4-5M per season, and that might even be a little rich for my taste. I would be happy with him though. We need a guy that can get INT’s, even if he isn’t as awesome a playmaker as we desperately need.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
Finally someone is with me on a safety
I’ve been saying this all along that Safety IS a big time priority for the Bills.
C and DE need to be addressed. But we can get by with a 2nd or 3rd round C or a vet like Birk. The Bills desperately need a playmaking Safety. If there are no stud safeties in the draft, then the Bills must address it via FA.
Bills fan half way around the world
I hope this disease doesn’t spread
I think we are making newer, higher priorities everyday
A stronger front seven with pass rush ability will improve our secondary. At least Cleveland had a pass rusher like Shaun Rogers to force a QB to make quicker decisions causing a few more miss reads resulting in interceptions. I would not mind a Jones in Buffalo however I feel a safety should be lower priority behind the following:
1. DE-Draft round 1
2. C- FA and/or Draft 2nd or 3rd round
3. TE- Draft 3rd or 4th
4. OLB- FA
5. WR-FA
6. Vet RB- FA (Thanks to "Bong Mode")
7. QB-FA
8. FB- FA, Late draft
9. S or T
This is just my opinion. This all can and will change, did we sign Peters, Greer, ECT…Is Lynch getting 2 or 4 game suspension, did OBD get tier 1 or 3 FA’s (Salary cap) our we trading down in the draft? Is Hardy going to ready to play in OCT,NOV or when?
I’m getting a headache thinking of all the ifs. We or should I say OBD have a heck of a job ahead of them, I just hope they can get it at least 75% right.
No one is saying safety should be a high priority. I’m just saying that Jones, who happens to play safety, is one of the few playmakers available via free agency – and this is about free agency, after all. I’m getting the vibe that you’d rather fill needs than find impact. That’s great, but I’ll respectfully disagree.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
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