Did Bills drop the ball on a Dockery trade?
by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:15 AM EST
in News
145 comments
On Thursday morning - approximately fourteen hours prior to the start of the free agent signing period - word came out of Buffalo that the Bills had released veteran OG Derrick Dockery. A little more than 24 hours later, Dockery landed back in Washington on a 5-year, $27 million deal with a little more than $8 million guaranteed.
According to reports from the Washington Post (here) and ESPN.com's John Clayton (here), however, the Bills reportedly blew a potential trade for Dockery in a big way.
The Scenario
We heard on Friday, and it was confirmed in the Post's piece, that Dockery was set to collect on a bonus of some sort (roster, incentive or otherwise, it matters very little) once 4PM hit on Thursday. If Post figures are accurate - and there's no reason to believe they aren't - Dockery was set to be paid $4.5 million; approximately $1.75 million of that figure is believed to be the bonus. Combined with his dramatically reduced level of play from 2007 to 2008, these were the deciding factors in Buffalo choosing to move on without Dockery.
Prior to that 4PM deadline (and it was a deadline in the sense that if the Bills still retained his rights at that time, Dockery would collect the bonus), the Bills had reportedly worked out a trade with the Detroit Lions for Dockery's services - and even more surprising, the Lions were ready to pick up the rest of Dockery's deal and guarantee his salaries in '09 and '10, according to the Post. Says Clayton...
The Bills didn't place Dockery on the waiver wire, and there had been interest by the Detroit Lions in acquiring him in a trade. Dockery flew to Detroit Friday for a visit and a physical.
The next step in the process, as reported in both stories, is that the Bills failed to submit the paperwork on the trade by the 4PM deadline. We'll let the Post handle this one...
However, the Bills failed to file the necessary paperwork with the NFL Management Council by the 4 p.m. deadline, according to a league source, and, rather than pay Dockery $4.5 million for this year, the Bills allowed him to become a free agent.
From there, Dockery was released (which still requires paperwork, by the way), the Lions and the Redskins bid for his services, the Lions offered more money (reportedly the deal he had in place in Buffalo but with more guarantees), but Dockery ultimately chose to reunite with his former team in Washington.
And that's that. We feel sure that the reports are accurate, though there are still questions to be asked (and we'll get to them momentarily). Even without answers to the ultra-important questions, these reports are undoubtedly a PR nightmare for a Bills front office that's on a zero-tolerance policy with this fan base.
The unanswered questions
It seems impossible that the degree of incompetency which Clayton and the Post assigns to the Bills here even exists. It's so hard to believe, in fact, that I'm hesitant to do so without a little more information coming to light. Particularly, I'd love to hear more information on the following topic.
Did the Lions do something shrewdly?
I believe that there is at least a possibility that the Lions knew that Buffalo was in a bind. Obviously having agreed to pick up Dockery's contract, they were aware of its parameters, including the bonus that the Bills owed him in a matter of hours. It's entirely possible - and incredibly intelligent on the part of the Lions - that Detroit simply "agreed" to a trade to get Dockery in the facilities, slap him into a room with their doctors and get a free visit with him before forcing Buffalo's hand. Why on earth would they agree to trade anything for Dockery when they knew that the Bills would end up releasing him anyway?
More importantly, did the Lions get Dockery in town, "get" cold feet on the deal, and knowingly back out prior to the 4PM deadline? That seems like a sure way to avoid compensating Buffalo for the player, forcing the Bills to release the player, and having Dockery right in town to try to coerce him into a free agent deal. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's probable that that's what went down. Obviously, the Bills got the shaft, but ultimately, so did Detroit.
Ultimately, we may never know exactly what went down. It's important to realize, however, that the Bills were working on a tight deadline, and the market for Dockery's services was small, mostly due to his contract. Detroit likely played this one shrewdly to get a soon-to-be free agent into town - they are, after all, the Lions; their new regime has to be creative to get players to sign onto a franchise that hasn't won a game since 2007. Regardless of the validity of this theory of mine, this is a PR disaster for the Bills, and with the timing of the story matching up with a less than thrilling first day of free agency, there are going to be a lot of angry fans. My advice: don't forget about this story, but don't pass judgment yet, either. There's more to this story than the reports indicate; hopefully, we'll hear more about this in the coming days.
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Well said Brian...
It’s just something I didn’t expect to wake up to this Saturday morning, i was hoping for some better new( coughColescough…cough) But I guess this is just our Buffalo Bills doin what they do
by The Wagon on Feb 28, 2009 8:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
this sounds reasonable
But your leaving out Dockery’s role in this – I don’t think its a coincidence that he ended up with his former team with an even fatter contract. This guy is not an idiot and knew exactly who to call when his exit was imminent.
Bills fans will complain, but this is all a side note to the REdskin’s and Dan Snyder’s overspending this off-season, clearly betting on the the prospect of an uncapped 2010 season.
I love the Bills but I’m starting to hate the NFL.
by Zumone on Feb 28, 2009 8:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No, I don’t think it’s a coincidence, either, but as it pertains to the Bills, it’s largely irrelevant. I’m betting Dock just outsmarted the Lions and got back to a team that he actually wanted to play for. No harm there.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, You can’t blame the guy – its just business. What is the relationship between the Bills and the Lions anyway – beyond the annual preseason game? Sounds more like they were colluding against Dockery; the missing paperwork sounds like an excuse.
by Zumone on Feb 28, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That seems somewhat possible as well, though I don’t think it’s likely. NFL teams are crooked business dealers, there’s no doubt, but they’re not evil.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only the Patriots are evil. But once a player is released you have no way of controlling where they end up. It just sounds like they were attempting to do an end-around the free agent process.
by Zumone on Feb 28, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would say that the Raiders, Cowboys and Redskins are evil as well. Not the same kind of evil, or even as evil, but evil none the less.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reasonable take on the situation
This is my take
The Loins agreed to pursue a trade and pick up his contract, but didn’t know about the 4.5 mil roster bonus (maybe the bills were banking on this), and once found out about it, tried to get the bills to pick up the bonus so the bills said no way and just released him. Then the Lions were hoping to strong arm him will in Detroit, but Dockery left without signing a deal.
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
by Rudy916 on Feb 28, 2009 8:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
“Loins” is a pretty funny Freudian slip.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and that’s a reasonable theory, but it doesn’t explain why the team still offered Dockery the same contract the Bills had remaining with him, but wanted to give him more guaranteed up front. The guarantees pretty much mean that they were trying to eradicate that bonus, which obviously means they knew about it. I’m still of the belief that whether or not the Lions knew about the bonus beforehand, they saw it and immediately knew that the Bills would be forced to release him. That’s when they got shrewd.
I feel certain that this is how it played out.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is this being reported as the Bills forgot to submit the paper work?
It makes the “inner circle” look very bad.
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because the Bills are incredibly irrelevant on the national stage.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so that excuses false reporting by ESPN and the Washington Post?
Who is their source?
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Deep Throat.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not false reporting, they’re just leaving out vital details because the story was ultimately about Dockery in both cases, not the Bills’ supposed ineptness.
No idea who the source is, but the consistency between the stories makes it look like it’s one source.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
leaving out vital details
Your theory has nothing to do with the Bill’s FO acting like bumbling idiots in a Marx Bros. film. The story coming out of two well respected media outlets does.
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My point. I’m just trying to supply the details, if only in theory. That’s what we’re here for – to do what national media doesn’t.
I’m not saying I like the way it was slanted, but I have a lot of respect for John Clayton.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope the Bills FO comes out and clarifies this story
The Bills FO haven’t looked this stupid since Pat Williams was on ESPN saying; the Bills didn’t even try to resign me.
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they shouldn’t have to “explain away” the details – all of this is speculation and only half truths – only people that I care about knowing are potential FA’s if they ask – and clarify it to them.
we’ll forget about this before the draft – but will be brought up from time to time.
i still don’t think its that big of a deal
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes they should explain
Like Brian said, this is a PR problem. And not just for fans but for signing free agents. Do you really want your FO to look like a$$ clowns in the middle of trying to sign free agents?
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess i just didn’t take it that way because its all speculation.
assumptions are the mother of all f*** up’s
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
even if they dropped the ball it isn’t that big of a deal – its not the first time that’s happened and i’m sure it won’t be the last.
but this shouldn’t be looked at as a failure by the inner circle – it just didn’t work out – happens in business all of the time. just move forward and go from there
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ala the McCargo trade this past fall
Sh%t happens, you move on with life and football
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
by WABillsfan on Feb 28, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
Sweet home Orchard Park.
by the Uncommon Denominator on Mar 2, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those two sources are trying to sell gossip. They are like the tabloids in a way. It is typical American media. That is why Brittany Spears shaving her head is on the front page and troops dying by the score is a 3 line blurb on page ten.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't count espn as a respected media outlet Joe. P
Considering their track record of sitting on stories till it benefits them most, their attempts to play gotcha, their like Fox News but for sports.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
by WABillsfan on Feb 28, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like the way FOX sat on Bush’s DWI right before the 2000 election? Oh, wait. They didn’t. I’ll take FOX over CNN, or any of the networks anyday.
With that said, what has ESPN sat on? I know they’re kind of notorious for ‘breaking’ stories that other people/outlets have already broken….all without ever acknowledging the person/agency that actually first got the word out.
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets see here
The whole HGH was being bought by a Steelers doctor, even though it happened AFTER he had left the team. The whole deal with the Boston Times on their being taped paractices of other teams by the Pats. There was the whole issue of them ignoring that Mort STOLE info from Glazer and didn’t report that Glazer broke it first.
Besides, Fox plays gotcha, not sit on it.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
by WABillsfan on Feb 28, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They all play gotcha. Look at the Palin interview. Or any politician asked the name of Kazakhstan. Or how much milk costs at the local grocery store. (I personally think it’s funny when the politician answers $3.17 because he’s obviously studied common gotcha questions and knows exactly how much milk costs in that town/state.)
ESPN is bad about not crediting people. I had thought the Steelers report was something that had been covered about a year earlier though I don’t remember why. I took it as them trying to create news since the Super Bowl was pretty much supposed to be a blow out.
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Any new source plays gotcha thats true
But O’Reilly is a joke. He talks about how bad the paparrazi invades stars lives. Then he sends out his own guys to harass people(politicians or govt. employees) who are at the store with their kids or just trying to ride the bus home. That I can’t condone.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
by WABillsfan on Feb 28, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Any idea what would have come to Buffalo if the trade went through?
by krytime on Feb 28, 2009 8:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
someone said around a 5th rounder?? but who knows
by The Wagon on Feb 28, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s the rumor, but nobody knows for sure. It certainly wasn’t in the reports.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it would have been nice to get something for him. Maybe even a used ShamWow or something. But since no one even considered or expected to get something for him, I’m not gonna bust their chops just yet.
by krytime on Feb 28, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that the Lions agreed to trade anything for Derrick Dockery AND pick up his deal AND guarantee more money is a little too Millen-like for me to take on faith. They had to have had ulterior motives for “agreeing to” the trade, and it could have been as simple as wanting a look at his contract and wanting the player in town.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The ShamWow would have been nice though.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read what I put into the fanpost about this? pretty funny.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 28, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
woah easy killer...
Just saying I already commented about the shamwow…. just saying I used the product in a joke about Dockery.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crack yourself up did you?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll crack your face up....
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MOVING ON...
Any news from Coles?? hahaha
by The Wagon on Feb 28, 2009 8:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why did they wait until the last minute?
Brian I respectfully disagree with you on this one big time!
The FO were aware of the contract details and should have been shopping Dock way before the dealine, there is absolutely no valid reason in my mind for waiting until the final hour to start dealing – period. The rest is fluff.
I seriously doubt that Detroit tried to somehow play a game with us because they ultimately lost out also. They made a play for him after we cut him and they lost to WAS so I doubt they were dumb enough to try and play around with us..
I most definitely blame the FO for being incompetent because they waited until the end instead of shopping him 2 weeks ago. In life you get what you pay for and Mr Wilson decided that he didn’t need a GM so I am certain that he can’t be too surprised at the absolute stupidity of this situation. Unfortunately for us, we don’t have any other option than to support this crap!
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Feb 28, 2009 9:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
this sure is crap, crap i didnt need today
by The Wagon on Feb 28, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
THe Lions reportedly offered a better contract to Dockery too.
SO yes they could have been playing that game. Plus how do you know this series of events didn’t start two weeks ago? They could have been shopping him once the roster moratorium was lifted. Don’t get your shorts in a bunch over speculation about when anything went down. The only finite pieces of information we have are the 4PM deadline and the time he was actually released.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 28, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in my mind for waiting until the final hour to start dealing
keysh – we have ZERO idea of when they started to deal him – for all we know they could have shopped him to a few teams last week. No one took the bait but for whatever reason Detroit decided at the last minute to do something and now we get the “telephone long distance game” and no one actually knows what happened.
come on people – we have no idea how it went down – lets relax a little here
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you have a good point
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Feb 28, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and were talking Detroit here. Talk about a steaming pile of 0 and 16.
by Zumone on Feb 28, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
feel the warmth…
Sweet home Orchard Park.
by the Uncommon Denominator on Mar 2, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The FO were aware of the contract details and should have been shopping Dock way before the dealine, there is absolutely no valid reason in my mind for waiting until the final hour to start dealing – period. The rest is fluff.
If you’re ready to prove to me that the Bills weren’t shopping Dockery for more than “the final hour”, then I might consider changing my stance on this. But there’s no way that you can make that claim, and it’s incredibly unlikely that the Bills simply said “holy hell, it’s 3:30, maybe we should try to move this guy”. They’re not THAT stupid.
They made a play for him after we cut him and they lost to WAS so I doubt they were dumb enough to try and play around with us..
This makes no sense. The Lions lost out on Dockery, so they weren’t trying to play us? Does that mean the Bills were 7-0 last year, and 9 games just evaporated into the ether?
In life you get what you pay for and Mr Wilson decided that he didn’t need a GM so I am certain that he can’t be too surprised at the absolute stupidity of this situation.
The only thing that’s stupid about this situation is that there are perfectly reasonable theories as to why a deal fell through, but Clayton and the Post ignored them. Again, if you have proof that this theory is false, then I’ll join you on the bandwagon. Until then, it’s bad reporting, and it’s putting a terribly negative spin on this organization in what is, in reality, a pretty damned irrelevant revelation.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in reality, a pretty damned irrelevant revelation
my sentiments exactly good sir
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would like the truth......and I can handle the truth
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with you. I’m completely prepared to get properly and righteously peeved off if the “paperwork got lost” theory is in any way the real crux of the story. But it’s just too freaking bizarre to actually believe. I’m ready to dole out criticism when it’s deserved, but until more facts come about, it just isn’t deserved by any stretch of the imagination.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trades COULDN'T happen until Friday
That’s my understanding. Sure I suppose they could have shopped him and agreed in principle to a deal, but it could NOT be consummated until Friday. That means the Bills would have been forced to pay the $1.75M bonus Thursday at 4pm.
by BBFan4Ever on Feb 28, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. My theory is that Buffalo had to pay the bonus if they traded him regardless of when they agreed to a deal or filed the paperwork. They were probably discussing compensation for Dockery and couldn’t get a pick that was worth the 1.75 mil. If the Lions were only willing to give up a 6th rounder, is that worth the extra 1.75 mil that Buffalo might need to sign Hangartner or Coles? At least that is my theory.
by kaisertown on Feb 28, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly on the waiting until the last minute
This organization does this time after time, and gets nowhere fast in doing so. It’s as if they watch other teams release players then feel obligated to do so with some of their own.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 28, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have to file paperwork either way...
to release him or trade him so what did they run out of trade forms? It’s unbelieveable that Bills fans are killing our FO over this by saying they didn’t submit “they can’t submit paperwork” or other garbage. They obviously submitted some paperwork or Dockery would still be here.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 28, 2009 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
plus i’m sure its all electronic – save for some signatures – not like they mail forms anymore
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are taken by courier on horseback....
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. Exactly.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bills FO doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt
Simple as that. Given recent history, they don’t.
BTW, the paperwork burnt up in Marshawn’s Mercedes. There was never any illegal drugs. It was the paperwork.
Was Reggie Williams with Marshawn that day?
I've been feeling Buffalo ill.
by ChipShot on Feb 28, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, sure, you can take that stance, but I’m going to say that I think it’s pretty narrow-minded. You don’t have to like the front office to know that this story is missing important plot points.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
I’ve been accused of being narrow-minded before. Narrow-minded Bills fans are growing by the hundreds these days.
I've been feeling Buffalo ill.
by ChipShot on Feb 28, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could this be a nail in the coffin of the 'inner circle'?
This just smacks of a Three Stooges type scenario, or however many people constitute the inner circle. If the story is true I can easily see it being one of those, “I thought you did it,” type deals. You know, the sort of thing that just doesn’t happen when there is one peson at the top with all of the responsiblity/accountability.
I don’t think Detroit was doing anything underhanded. After all, if they liked Dock enough to try to sign him as a free agent why not give up a late round pick to ensure that they were his only option?
I just hope that Detroit doesn’t remember any such bumbling on draft day when it comes time for them to try to trade for the #11 slot.
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why are you so quick to believe that the Lions weren’t making a smart business move (I’m not calling it underhanded, I’m calling it shrewd), but then say that it “smacks of a Three Stooges scenario”? One of those things is far more believable than the other…
After all, if they liked Dock enough to try to sign him as a free agent why not give up a late round pick to ensure that they were his only option?
The only way that that’s a good idea is if the Lions knew that Washington would be players. They had the guy in the building, and the possibility is strong that they had already told him they’d keep his Buffalo deal intact with more guaranteed money. Ultimately, Dock chose significantly less money in Washington. In short, Detroit likely gambled that Dock would take the money – and obviously, there was a precedent – and lost.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned last night that I wasn’t sure how long he’d be in town, and that remains true this morning.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bb.com
On their front page they have a Coles story. Under the headline is a little line that reads, “Coles departs Buffalo without a deal.”
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s Chris Brown’s blog post that said Coles had left the building without a deal. I can verify that he stayed in Buffalo for an indeterminate amount of time after that visit, reportedly dining with Lee Evans and Josh Reed.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In his blog CB says he left OBD but on the home page it says he left Buffalo. Maybe CB thinks OBD is all there is to Buffalo…
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? so he was hanging with Evans and Reed?? Well thats kind of promising, good stuff to hear
by The Wagon on Feb 28, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ipod D.J. night sounds pretty cool.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
been there many times – nice place
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t see the LIons as being that clever. Besides, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In this case it’s very easy to believe that the Lions did their due diligence and that Buffalo dropped the ball. With an extra 1st and 3rd it’s not like Detroit is hurting for draft picks so giving up a 5th to have exclusive rights to a guy isn’t much of a stretch.
As for the Stooges comment, that was entirely directed at OBD. It’s very easy to imagine several members of OBD pointing fingers at one another when the realization hit that they were going to have to cut Dock instead of trade him.
I freely acknowledge that this is all hypothetical at this point. It also sucks for Bills fans.
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, zero debate from me on the suckitude part. Terrible, terrible timing for this to happen. Hope Laveranues Coles doesn’t read the papers…
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
…and just feels the love from Rumblers.
Sweet home Orchard Park.
by the Uncommon Denominator on Mar 2, 2009 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good grief
I can’t believe that you guys are wasting valuable moments of your life hacking this story to pieces. Clearly it’s being spun by unhappy folks in Detroit seeking to curry favor with Clayton et el. Jim Overdorff who handles the contractual details of things like this at OBD is one VERY VERY bright guy, and I don’t think that this is a case where they couldn’t get the fax machine to work or something equally idiotic. You guys can jump on a half-reported story and jump on the “Inner Circle” if you’d like, but you should with equal vehemence publicly apologize when all of the facts are revealed. And I promise I will let you know. This is a little bit like your favorite divorce story (and I am an acknowledged expert in that arena) —there are three sides to each story. His. Hers. And the truth.
Geronimo
by Geronimo on Feb 28, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there are three sides to each story. His. Hers. And the truth.
Well said, the truth is never really as bad as either side makes it out to be.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can assure you that was the case with both of my ex-wives!!!
Geronimo
by Geronimo on Feb 28, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was just fantastic. Bravo.
John Madden told me 90% of the game was half-mental...
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Feb 28, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks G
I never make decisions on half truths and assumptions – its moronic – I’m not 100% that we didn’t screw it up – but I highly doubt it…highly
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can a person apologize with vehemence?
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am REALLY REALLY SORRY. YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shouting an apology rarely works for me.
I try to conjure up something resembling sincerity….or just refrain from acknowledging the painfully obvious until it blows over.
In this case, I’m glad that I was wr-wr-wr-nowhere near accruate.
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Get Stephen A. Smith to do it. I bet he could find some way.
John Madden told me 90% of the game was half-mental...
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Feb 28, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Geronimo,
You guys can jump on a half-reported story
Some people have over reacted, but as I said above
I hope the Bills FO comes out and clarifies this story
IMO, the timing of this does not help the perception potential free agent players have of the Bills organization. It might not affect a player like Coles, who has actually been in for a visit, but what about someone like Birk?
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My observation
Has been that prospective players couldn’t give a decent crap about this. In order, here is what i think players value in evaluating where to go.
1) How much money I will make? 2) How much money I will make? 3) My own playing time 4) How much money i will make? 5) Do I like the players/coaches? 6) Can we win? 7) How much money will I make 8) Will my wife or honey like it here? 9) How much money will I make 10) is there a decent nightlife.
C’mon…..get real on this issue.
Geronimo
by Geronimo on Feb 28, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahahahahaha – now thats funny – and probably true
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL! Very funny....kind of like real estate.
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Geronimo, are you saying this is why Tony G. wouldn’t even consider Buffalo?
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Taylor? Panda?
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Geronimo’s comment may be funny, but if that’s what he really believes, and he really does have “inside” info, my gut is that he’s believing the smokescreen laid down by players who won’t come to Buffalo.
If anything, lately, it has to be the “can we win?” that he’s relegated to 6th on his list.
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I apologize.
I missed one. Let’s call it 10B. And don’t think I am kidding.
10B) The weather.
Geronimo
by Geronimo on Feb 28, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I can totally agree with you there. I live in North Dakota now, and many people will just refuse to even consider living here, simply because of the climate. Makes for a very nice community.
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I blame OBD for that too!!! LOL!!!!!
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well obviously that was an attempt at humor and obviously that does not pertain to every situation.
but money obviously plays a huge part – look at jason brown
but to sit here and think that FA’s or agents aren’t going to come here based off of speculation without doing their own due diligence is moronic
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what you’re suggesting. I never said anyone would blow off the Bills just because of a general perception. The problem is that a person in any aspect of life has to work awfully hard at overcoming a negative perception. “Perception equals reality.”
Why do you think it’s taught so much about the importance of a good first impression (for example, in job interviews)? One has to work many times harder to overcome a bad first impression (rightly or wrongly deduced or inferred) than if there’s a generally good perception about you.
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well of course one has to work hard to over come negative perception
but this isn’t our first impression – this is a story that is probably only being talked about right here right now – other than that its nothing
players don’t sign here because of a history of losing is far more likely than this one story
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
players don’t sign here because of a history of losing is far more likely than this one story
Is that why the Bills dropped off the radar after Polian left? They had made it to the Super Bowl four straight times (ok, the last appearance was the year after he left). The point is, when Polian left, everything descended quickly as the team he had built slowly dispersed (retired, left for other teams, etc.).
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
most players don't do their own due diligence!!!
they are to busy playing Madden and pimping their rides or their chicks. That is what agents are for.
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats why i said " or agents" :-)
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Feb 28, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Got it.....not what I thought you meant when I first read it
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Feb 28, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This comment...
“1) How much money I will make? 2) How much money I will make? 3) My own playing time……”
Is so on the money, it’s not even funny. I mean it’s funny, but it’s so true.
by krytime on Feb 28, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aren’t you forgetting the lawyer’s side too?
by krytime on Feb 28, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Overdorff who handles the contractual details of things like this at OBD is one VERY VERY bright guy
You know, I tend to denigrate journalists a lot (I used to work in TV and detested the shoddy reporting I would see), so it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find out this story was incorrectly reported.
Also, I am willing to admit that the “inner circle” does not contain any substantively incompetent people. These men could not have arisen to that kind of position with no competence.
However, this is my complaint about OBD, and I don’t think anyone here has yet really hit on this: The business side of the NFL has passed them by. They’re not incompetent, but they just can’t compete with the Parcells and the Piolis of the game. I compare it to the offensive coordinator of the second Art Shell regime in Oakland (can’t remember the guy’s name). He wasn’t incompetent; the game had just passed him by.
This is the way I see OBD. Ralph Wilson is not dumb, he’s not insensitive to losing, it’s simply this: the game has passed him by. So he hires people and sets up a structure based on a scenario that just isn’t going to work in this NFL.
So what is the result – the Bills end up looking totally stupid. Did they do something as dumb as forget to file paperwork? I doubt it. But it doesn’t surprise me in the least that they come out looking that dumb.
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Walsh was the name of Shell’s OC.
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does everyone picture the keystone cops when picturing the Bills front office? I mean really do you guys see Ralph Wilson, Russ Brandon, Tom Modrak, and John Guy running around to the theme to Benny Hill?
C’mon guys it’s not that bad.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m guessing that they don’t all chase around women in lingerie.
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Might be cool to see that if it was true.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would probably lead to numerous sexual harrassment lawsuits.
by Ron From NM on Feb 28, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does everyone picture the keystone cops when picturing the Bills front office?
See my comment above. I don’t picture the keystone cops. I just picture Tom Walsh in his second time around as the OC for Art Shell’s Raiders. The game had passed him by. I believe the game has passed by OBD.
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet they almost had the paperwork filed witha few seconds to go but then a fight broke out in the end zone
by south123 on Feb 28, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Duke Preston is part of the “inner circle”?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha. Well played.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You enjoy the Bills any way you can these days
by south123 on Feb 28, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bobby McFerrin- Dont worry, Be happy
its helping
by The Wagon on Feb 28, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
itunes has a special buffalo portal for that song
by south123 on Feb 28, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a lot of irony in your words.
by south123 on Feb 28, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit
I bet Detroit is one of only two or three teams that find it harder to get talent than the Bills. I think players will do anything to get out of Detroit. I bet sireric could throw in a whole house of shamwows and people would still run the other way.
And man I am dislexic. For a year I’ve read it at siriec, some cryptic name, not sir – eric.
by south123 on Feb 28, 2009 9:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I’m not that cryptic. Pretty simple actually.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Feb 28, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Might come in handy if he would
covertly arrest free agents and “convice” them to sign with the Bills :P
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 28, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
damn, did it again… “convince”
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 28, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always read it as Sc’eric- I worked on a radio station with a guy whose name was Scott Eric, and he abbreviated it to that. I now realize how pointless this story was…
John Madden told me 90% of the game was half-mental...
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Feb 28, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At least you trashed your own story before anyone else had a chance to…. ;-)
by thefourwinds on Feb 28, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering about this yesterday.
It was way too quick a turn around to feel good about the release.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 28, 2009 10:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bill Polian
Would have never allowed this to happen. Heck, Bill Polian would have acquired a first round pick and that would have turned into a Pro Bowl player. Clowns running the show! Even ESPN analysts ridicule what was once a proud and very respected administration and front office. Why the Bills didn’t make a run at Kellen Winslow is another head scratcher.
by BuffaloWhiner on Feb 28, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
How do you know that they didn't?
How do you know that the Bills or any team outside of Tampa even knew that Winslow was available? Did you hear anything about him being shopped? I sure as hell didn’t, no one was reporting it.
by twoeightnine on Feb 28, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are teams coming out now and saying who they didn't pick in the draft and didn't pick in free agency?
Oh wait… the Broncos just got blasted for it….. This is such a ridiculous argument.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Any comments about this article?
http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/bills-not-lions-blew-the-docke.html
Seems to explain things differently. I just can’t seem to give a pass to the FO on this one until I hear an explanation from them directly. If it truly was not their fault, wouldn’t they come out and explain and defend themselves?
by raptoreggs on Feb 28, 2009 6:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The chances of us hearing an explanation from the front office on this are incredibly remote.
I’m not sure who Balzer’s source is, but it’s not really a revelation. If you see the FanShot on the front page, it explains it quite nicely, and this explanation from Balzer fits into that pretty snugly.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Feb 28, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2009/02/no-fault-by-bills-on-dock.html
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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