Looking past the NFL Draft's top defensive ends
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 12:30 PM EDT
in Opinion
141 comments
It's fairly common knowledge at this point that the Buffalo Bills have a need for a jolt to their anemic pass rush. For this reason, most Bills fans - and these days, even draft "experts" - are projecting the Bills to take one of the three top speed rushers in April's NFL Draft, whether that player be Brian Orakpo (Texas), Everette Brown (Florida State) or Aaron Maybin (Penn State).
However, with a majority of NFL teams shifting to a 3-4 defense, smaller speed rushers are becoming hotter commodities on a daily basis. No less than six of the ten teams holding top ten picks this year will, at a minimum, seriously consider taking one of the speed rushers as their top draft picks. It's not a certainty, but there is most definitely a strong possibility that the Bills may be forced to choose between players at different positions with their eleventh overall pick.
Clearly, taking a defensive end is the most likely scenario. Trading down is also a distinct possibility, and may even be worth the team's while if one of the speed rushers is available when they pick. Should the worst-case scenario happen - no trade and all three rushers gone - the Bills still have options, particularly when you remember that "options" isn't inclusive of the word "appealing". Here are seven players the Bills might consider if the worst-case scenario unfolds.
Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi :: Scouting Report
Once considered a Top 5 prospect in both this year's draft as well as the 2008 draft (before he decided to return for his senior year), Oher is inexplicably sliding down draft boards to the point where there's a solid chance he'll be available when the Bills pick. He's got great size and bulk, and though he's not as athletic as most of the guys that have passed him, he's dependable, has elite potential as a right tackle and should acquit himself well on the left side. If trade rumors surrounding Jason Peters are true, Oher would be an outstanding selection as Peters' replacement.
Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State :: Scouting Report
Yes, I still remain higher on Pettigrew than most Bills fans. I'll make formal what I've been informally saying about Pettigrew for weeks now: forget about his anemic receiving numbers. Oklahoma State ran the ball 64.1% of the time in 2008, and they also had one of college football's best receivers in Dez Bryant (87 receptions, 19 touchdowns). Pettigrew was the only other Cowboy to catch at least 40 passes. He's already a good blocker. He's got elite potential as a receiver, too, even if he lacks elite speed.
Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC :: Scouting Report
Buffalo desperately needs a defensive playmaker. Outside one of the speed rushers, Maualuga makes a lot of sense in that regard. He's an athletic thumper, though questions remain about his straight-line speed and his eccentric personality. I'm hearing that he's not held in unusually high regard by Buffalo's talent evaluators, but there's no question that his experience in zone and playmaking ability makes him an appealing option.
Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma :: Scouting Report
Last time I checked, the Bills still only have two by-trade interior offensive linemen under contract. A gaping hole remains at the left guard position, vacated by the released Derrick Dockery. Robinson is one of the better guard prospects to emerge in quite some time, and he appears to have been custom-built for a power rushing attack. He'd slide in nicely at left guard between Peters and new center Geoff Hangartner.
Brian Cushing, OLB, USC :: Scouting Report
Just like Maualuga, Cushing comes in with experience in a zone-based defense. One thing he's got going for him that Maualuga doesn't is that Cushing already plays the outside - he's a good fit at the SAM position at which the Bills don't have a starter, and his presence wouldn't require a position switch for Paul Posluszny. He's got the chops to be an outstanding pro, but he'll always have questions surrounding his durability.
Larry English, DE, Northern Illinois :: Scouting Report
Just because three ends are (theoretically) off the board doesn't mean the Bills have to look at a different position. English is perhaps a more technically polished pass rusher than any of the top-tier ends this year, but his straight-line speed and quickness isn't dominant, and he comes from a small school. English might be the most pro-ready end available this year, but his ceiling is much lower.
Clay Matthews, OLB, USC :: Scouting Report
Matthews isn't as ideal a fit as his two USC teammates simply because he was more pass rush specialist than traditional linebacker in USC's defensive scheme. He'd been slowly crawling up my board after displaying better-than-anticipated athleticism at the Combine. You won't find a player better suited for Buffalo from an intangibles, work ethic and football IQ standpoint. Now he's a legitimate first-round prospect, and he's on this list because I'm getting positive vibes around his name from folks close to the team. Matthews interview at Mocking the Draft
I'm sure y'all have names you'd like to see added to the list. Make sure to let us know which of these names you like the best, as this should be considered our first of many attempts at information-gathering for this year's SB Nation NFL Mock Draft.
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If we don’t get another G before the draft can we afford not to get Mack? Is he the best interior lineman available in the draft?
by jj24 on Mar 11, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think Robinson’s better than Mack.
If we’re drafting a center to play guard, we’re far more likely to pick up Unger. Hangartner is the center.
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good deal.
I’ve been hearing Hangartner is a quality G/C combo. You know, like Duke Preston. Anyway, I’m all for taking the best interior lineman available is we don’t get a suitable replacement for the lackluster Dockery.
by jj24 on Mar 11, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duke Robinson would be a great pick.
I would love to somehow get both Pettigrew and Robinson in this draft.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be awesome. We definitely need that solid interior lineman. If we can manage to trade up for Pettigrew then that will allow us more options in the passing game. We will be nearly complete on the offensive side.
2009…….The year of the Robigrew!!!!!!
by jj24 on Mar 11, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking PettiDuke but whatever works.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duke Robinson?
Did’nt some of you heavily criticize my Mock Draft months ago on my Duke Robinson pick in the 2nd round? Yep.. Now he’d be great!
I had Mack in the 1st and Duke in the 2nd round.-of course a trade down would be ideal.
by Fam_1st on Mar 11, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recall that
I certainly wouldn’t have criticized Robinson in the second. Mack in the first is another story.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where's your mock?
I searched for it and didn’t find it.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 11, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure he wanted Duke Robinson in the 1st when we still had Dockery in the mix. That’s why he was criticized, and wasn’t it somewhat deserved at the time?!?!
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 12, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN NFL Draft tracker has Duke Robinson graded as the #2 guard and 68th overall. Alex Mack is graded as the #1 Center and 37th overall. Scott Wright has Mack going #38 and Robinson going #49. No way Robinson is better than Mack. For the Bills and their “win now” philosophy, and how things stand now, Robinson would be a better fit. If the Bills stand pat at 11 and their top 2 choices for DE are gone, I hope they take a hard look at Peria Jerry.
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Mar 11, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you know what? I say that based on personal opinion after seeing both of them play, not what everyone else thinks of them. :)
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Wright has us taking Maybin in the first and Nelson in the second. That wouild be mighty fine.
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Mar 11, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Says you and Scott Wright. Me…not so much.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I wouldn’t be super thrilled with that either, though I do like both players…
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather Pettigrew and Ayers or even English
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't have a problem w/ maybin and nelson
of course if we don’t have a guard going into the draft i’d be tickle pink to see unger or robinson still on the board in the 2nd round which i think one of them may, but it’s too close to call
by Shovel51 on Mar 11, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be fine with that, would deffinatly make us better
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 11, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Robinson vs Mack
Here is a link for video on Alex Mack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8xCkToEnJ8
Here is a link for video on Duke Robinson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3qy7xxeVHA
After looking at both video clips, I think Alex Mack is a better offensive lineman. Although he is a center, he has tremendous power. Perhaps the reason he played center is because he is very smart and could make all the line calls.
I would love to get Alex Mack in the first round and have him play GUARD. I think he would be more than capable of starting in that position for the Bills. I also think he would play extremely well.
However, Duke Robinson looks pretty good on tape as well. I’m not totally against starting drafting guys like BJ Raji or Everette Brown in the first round and then starting Chambers at LG.
by buffaloboy90 on Mar 11, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DE
I think one of the 3 DE’s will be available at 11, but if may be the guy OBD does not want — they can’t all go in the top 10 in this draft. Michael Johnson is the DE that may come up as consideration — even if Mayock and others rip him for being weak on tape. He was considered to be a top pick last year before this year, and his performance was solid this year, when all the opponent teams concentrated on him in a weak GT line. I gather that a lot of people HATE him, but he could be the guy.
by labill on Mar 11, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
M. Johnson? sure, in the second round. then we trade down and grab Pettigrew in the first
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 11, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
about our first pick
idk where to go with that. i mean TO is a threat but for only a season. Pettigrew would be nice to have, if the hype is real. I would like to see a de or dt picked up in the first round. However, i heard that mccargo is at 1 bills drive every day working out and working with the d line coaches… so i really dont know. Who ever it is I hope its an immediate impact player. I still would like to see the bills pick up Mack in the second and move him to guard for a few seasons. No reason why we cant have a good back up center…
by billsstein on Mar 11, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
matthews
when myself and others brought up Clay Matthews as a favorite potential pick of ours (admittedly most of us Matthews supporters mocked him in round 2, sometimes even in round 3) a huge number of posters and editors fiercely asserted the Clay Matthews was not a good fit for Buffalo. Now we hear that hes a popular name there? What gives? Combine numbers were nice but every already knew he was a blitzer. I’m confused what changed?
If we trade Peters we are taking a huge gamble that Oher will be available.If Oher falls maybe then you trade Peters for two picks but its quite a gamble
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
editors fiercely asserted the Clay Matthews was not a good fit for Buffalo. Now we hear that hes a popular name there? What gives? Combine numbers were nice but every already knew he was a blitzer. I’m confused what changed?
Why does something have to change for an opinion to be rendered utterly useless by a rumor?
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess thats true
so if his name is popular can we assume the Bills are moving towards a scheme which heavily features outside linebacker blitzes with mitchell and matthews, thereby leaving DE alone until later rounds? Doesn’t that either contradict scheme or indicate a change in philosophy?
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it indicates either. You can draft a guy you like and work with him to get him to play a position in your scheme. Considering the amount of time the Bills spend in nickel and dime, Matthews wouldn’t see the field much outside of run downs and maybe as an edge rusher on passing downs.
If T.O. means anything to Buffalo, it’s that they’re looking to score points so that they can play with leads for once. As I mentioned frequently last year, our opponents scored first nearly every week. I think that SEVERLY hampered our ability to take chances on defense. Play with more leads, and you might see better pressure/sack numbers from our current group of ends/blitzers, let alone if we actually do something to upgrade the group.
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
about always playing behind.
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know
If the Bills had made more of an effort to get Harvey last year like K and I insisted, this wouldn’t be a problem.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But Harvey sucked last year…
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all the "coveted" DEs sucked last year!
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But with a year under his belt, (don’t forget he held out all of camp) He would be that much better this year. John did a post a while back about DE needing a year or two to develop. Last year would have been his developmental year, and this year he would take off.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
and now i’m advocating for a DE in round 1 :) I still agree with that by the way, DEs need time to develop, period. That’s why I think Maybin would be a good fit. Put him in only as a situationaly pass rusher in year-1 and give him time to learn.
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats exactly why I’ve been saying draft Maybin for a while no. Even Mario Williams sucked his first year (4 sack) but then had 15 his second year. None of the DE’s we can draft will have an immidiate impact because of the nature of the position. So we might as well draft the guy that has the biggest potential (which is Maybin acording to me) and just use him situationally.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 11, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
John did a post a while back about DE needing a year or two to develop. Last year would have been his developmental year, and this year he would take off.
Well then let’s hope he’s right and that Chris Ellis takes off!
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis did nothing with a full year and all of camp.
Harvey had 3.5 sacks with no camp.
Ellis has a longer way to go then Harvey, IMO.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go:
from January:
Round 1 of 2008 NFL Draft
Chris Long (2nd overall – St. Louis): 16 games, 40 tackles, 1 forced fumbles, 4 sacks
Derrick Harvey (8th overall – Jacksonville): 16 games, 19 tackles, 0 forced fumbles, 3.5 sacks
Lawrence Jackson (28th overall – Seattle): 16 games, 29 tackles, 0 forced fumbles, 2 sacks
Phillip Merling (32nd overall – Miami): 16 games, 26 tackles, 0 forced fumbles, 1 sack
Round 1 of 2007 NFL Draft
Gaines Adams (4th overall – Tampa Bay): 16 games 38 tackles, 0 forced fumbles, 6 sacks (had 6.5 sacks this past season)
Jarvis Moss (17th overall – Denver): 6 games, 12 tackles, 0 forced fumbles and 1 sack (2.5 sacks in 2008)
Round 1 of 2006 NFL Draft
Mario Williams (1st overall – Houston): 16 games, 47 tackles, 0 forced fumbles, 4.5 sacks (14 and 12 sacks the past two seasons respectfully)
Tamba Hali (20th overall – Kansas City): 16 games, 61 tackles, 5 forced fumbles, 8 sacks (8 and 3 sacks the past two reasons respectfully)
Note: I’ve excluded four players from this analysis: Vernon Gholston, who was taken 6th overall by the Jets played 3-4 in New York and had a disappointing first season with 13 tackles and no sacks. I also excluded Adam Carriker from the 2007 draft because he has played DT with the Rams since entering the league (he had 2 sacks in his first season), as well as Kamerion Wimbley (Cleveland) and Manny Lawson (San Francisco) who have both played OLB since joining the league in 2006. Wimbley had 10 sacks in his first season, but no more than 5 in the past two. Lawson has never had more than 3 sacks in a season.
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, Harvey could get a lot more sacks this year. If the Bills had gotten him last year, (like two handsome and intelligent Rumblers suggested) they wouldn’t need to search for one this year.
That is all I was saying.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weren’t you a Vernon guy? I thought Gholston was your cup of tea.
by krytime on Mar 11, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eric knew he would be off the board by then.
by jj24 on Mar 11, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jj24 is right. I want Vernon more but thought Harvey would be there instead. I was wrong on both.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis can hopefully get more sacks in his scond year too!
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more sacks?
how about A sack?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahah
how about playing time?
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fella needs to earn it
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well 1 is more than zero, no?
The captial of Youboty is Youboty.
by thatguy34 on Mar 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion,
the difference in talent between the top cornerbacks this year and the top cornerbacks last year is greater than the difference in talent between the top defensive ends this year and the top defensive ends last year.
In other words, I’ll take Leodis McKelvin and Everette Brown over Malcolm Jenkins and Derrick Harvey all day, every day of the week.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Mar 11, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss pushing for Harvey.
Everette Brown, Everette Brown, Everette Brown, Everette Brown……
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what will you next season
if we do draft a DE at 11? where do you go next?
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
duh
another DE!!!!
The scrubs we currently have are about to reach 30 or are already there. If Ellis showed anything, I might consider something else, but we still need multiple pass rushers, multiple DE’s. If we get 2 this year, then I’ll go elsewhere.
I could see Gresham at TE or more likely a DT as well!
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greshem would be nice...
I’d also imagine we’ll be picking a new CB with Greer or Youboty leaving and maybe a safety or two. :-)
OSU DB’s you’re on notice.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 11, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pulling an MRW
Greer is already gone….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 12, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McGee!!!!
you caught me.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 12, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we had the luxury of being able to take 2 de''s
i’d agree w/ that… because i think just as the 34 stock piles lb’s we in the 43 must stock pile good d-lineman bottom line.. you need at least 3 good pass rushers, and at least 2 solid dt’s and 1 great one. i think we have the great one in stroud, and solid one’s in williams and johnson (could be better, but could be worse), and as far as DE idk if we even have one good pass rusher on this team.
by Shovel51 on Mar 12, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, takes off the chains
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really don't want Leodis for Harvey?
Leodis McKelvin – shaping up to be one of the best corners to come out of the draft in years. Made more plays than any starter on defense in limited playing time.
Derrick Harvey – 3.5 sacks. Looks promising but nothing special
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing against Leo. I liked the pick and his future with the team.
I just really want a pass rush for this team.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also dropped the ball on Josh Johnson in the 3rd. (I’ll never let that go.)
by jj24 on Mar 11, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah really!
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they still had a lot of faith in Trent at last years draft, therefore no need for Johnson.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 11, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this draft is shaping up more and more to be a true ‘best talent available’ draft. Short of trading for a guard, I think anyone else put in the position will at the least need someone to challenge them for the position.
If the talent is there, I would draft just about any position at #11 right now, except QB, RB and CB.
by south123 on Mar 11, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My current "Big Board"
(and I would just go right down this list and take the best player left when the 11th pick comes up)
1. Aaron Curry
2. Michael Crabtree
3. B.J. Raji
4. Aaron Maybin
5. Everette Brown
6. Brian Orkapo
7. Rey Maualuga
8. Jason Smith
9. Eugene Moore
10. Michael Oher
A few notes:
- OTs are discounted for now. If the Bills trade Peters, or they feel like they are in for another off-seaon mess with him then the discount will be removed and they players will be ranked accordingly.
- CBs, QBs and RBs were completely discounted right off my big board. No need for any of those right now in the top 11.
- No safties or tightends are worth the top 11 IMO
- None of the other linebackers really impress me at 11, but if I had to rank them after Curry and Maugluga it would go Laurinitis, Mathews, Cushing)
- I really believe the Bills will have their pick of defensive ends at number 11
- I’m okay with trading down after number 3 on that list
- I’m beyond okay with trading down after number 6.
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really believe the Bills will have their pick of defensive ends at number 11
I agree, I think we get the top DE off the board, like we got the top corner last year, or the second pick of the litter
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really believe the Bills will have their pick of defensive ends at number 11
That’s about the only thing I flat-out, 100% disagree with out of all of that.
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who do you think will be gone, and by whom?
I see all the top 10 team with much bigger needs, especially at OT and QB (include Curry and Crabtree as sure-fire top 5 picks) and that’s nearly the top-10 right there.
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DET – Stafford
STL – J. Smith
KC – Curry
SEA – Raji
CLE – Brown (no pun intended)
CIN – Monroe
OAK – Crabtree
JAX – Maclin
GB – Orakpo
SF – Sanchez
That just leaves Maybin on the board. That’s how I see it right now.
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not crazy,
But wouldn’t be my mock. I guess we’ll have to wait and see!
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, well, at least I’m not crazy, I guess. :)
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes you are
we all are
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Oakland
taking Crabtree. The Raiders place a premium on measureables. Al Davis loves speed. Crabtree’s 40 time is likely to be unknown, and everyone knows that Crabtree is not a blazer anyways.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Mar 11, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
swap Maclin and Crabtree then.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so fast...
I think the Jags have a bad taste in their mouth from Reggie Williams and Matt Jones. It could happen, but I don’t think so. I get the feeling the Jags will take the best big man on their board.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Mar 11, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im still suprised the Jags
are in the top 10!
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t. They just signed Tra Thomas. Raji is off the board. I think Raji will ultimately be their top target, but I think they’ll take a receiver. They lost Williams, Jones got arrested, they cut Jerry Porter. They have NOTHING at wideout. Garrard needs targets.
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aside from Thomas, don’t they need more OL help?
by krytime on Mar 11, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but mostly on the inside. Unless Monroe or Jason Smith slips, they’re either “reaching” for Oher (who I think is still a strong possibility for them) or taking a character risk on Andre Smith.
I honestly think they’ll target Raji, use WR as their contingency plan and then try to get an OL in the second round, with Max Unger the likely target.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Reggie Williams was picked up on the 1st night of FA
for DUI with alcohol and blunts involved
by freddyjj on Mar 11, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but Jerry Rice wasn't a Blazer
enough said
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 11, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood. But,
Al Davis runs the show in Oakland. He gets his way. Do you understand how Davis evaluates and selects players?
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Mar 11, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That looks pretty solid to me, which also means it’s probably not gonna happen…
by krytime on Mar 11, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I’m a Maybin fan so I’m fine with that… but it would be better if we had options instead of just the one left.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 11, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
you guys (Poz and Brian) respond at the same time to the same comment and have completely different opinions. Love it!
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i beat him by a minute!!
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is not a concessus #1 4-3 DE in this draft
so who cares? If the Bills want a DE at #11, it would be dumb to pass on any of those guys. If they get their pick of them…..great….if not, take who is left.
You can’t let T.O. use your man berries as a chew toy!
by Joe P. on Mar 11, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't consider this
to be the worst-case scenario. I would be happy with Crabtree or Raji, for example, at #11. I don’t mean to sound like a wise guy, but some fans seem to forget that only 10 players can get selected in the top 10.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Mar 11, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
precisely!!!!
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly!
only so many players can be taken! Buffalo will have at least (and i think all three) defensive ends to choose from. All the LBs with the exception of Curry will be there (God, I wish curry would be there) and Raji has a chance to be there. Besides Curry, Crabtree and Raji, I’m just not overly blown away by this group – at least as far as a top 11 pick is concerned.
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but your forgetting all these guys project as 34 OLB's as well as DE's in a 43
there are alot of 34 teams in the top 10 because each one of these DE’s maybin, brown, orakpo all project as OLB in a 34, as well as DE… so there may be some 43 teams in the top ten that are not sold on these guys as DE prospects, but every 34 needs a great pass rusher at OLB and each one of these guys fit that bill
by Shovel51 on Mar 12, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t consider this to be the worst-case scenario. I would be happy with Crabtree or Raji, for example, at #11.
Not following. Crabtree and Raji are decidedly BETTER scenarios than any of the guys mentioned here. So I’m confused as to where you’re going with this.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this post
the scenario presented only rules out two events:
1. No trade.
2. All three rushers gone.
To me, that means that Crabtree and/or Raji, for example, could possibly be available to the Bills at #11, and would not represent the worst-case scenario.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Mar 11, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that the two events ruled out indicates by any stretch that either Crabtree or Raji will be available. If they are, great. But as you see above, I have two of the three ends going in the top ten along with the WR and the DT.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to rule out Crabtree and Raji, fine. THEN, I might consider THAT to be the worst-case scenario.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Mar 11, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A thought
Outside of Modrak and his people, for whom this is a full-time job, the other folks at OBD are just now turning away from FA and starting to focus on the Draft. Much is uncertain and things will go back and forth in the next 5-6 weeks. There will be LOTS of discussion. However, here is what i think may be going on. A) I strongly sense that they would like #11 to be a defensive playmaker. B) I sense that they are not impressed enough with Brown, Orakpo or Maybin to make any of them their # 11. C) Of the three USC LB’s I think they like Mathews the best. D) They may like Pettigrew more than you think. E) They may well draft 2, or even 3 O-Lineman.
If you were to ask me—If I could somehow get Matthews at 11 and hope Duke Robertson slide to us in the second. I’d do cartwheels all the way home.
Geronimo
by Geronimo on Mar 11, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So no DE in round 1 or 2 ?
Kurupt, please stop crying!!!!!!
You can’t let T.O. use your man berries as a chew toy!
by Joe P. on Mar 11, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
if they blatantly ignore the pass rush AGAIN, I will be livid. It’s by far the weakest part of the team right now, and has been terrible for years!!! UGH!
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is steaming coming out of your ears????
get me my pass-catching TE and I’ll shut up about TE and finally join the DE train…..I promise….
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Mar 11, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool
thanks Geronimo… Most of that sounds good to me w/ the exceptin of Mathews at 11. I like him, especially more than Cushing, but at 11? I’m a big LB guy and i’m just now blown away by any of the lb’s this year – with the exception of Curry – who won’t be there. Great to hear about the o-line. They need depth and youth there in a bad way (and insurance for Peters). Overall, good stuff.
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
id actually be ok with Matthews
the guy is going to be a terror blitzing
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 11, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I think Brian Cushing is incredibly overrated. He’s one of those guys that everyone likes because he played at USC, he has great size, and he performed well at the combine. Well, if you take a look at the tape he looks like a very mediocre linebacker.
On the other hand, Clay Matthews looks like he could have some serious potential. However, he just didn’t get enough playing time at college so I would not take him at 11 either.
Aaron Curry is an absolute monster and I would take him with the #1 pick in the draft if I were the Lions.
A linebacker that you should look at is Zack Follett from CAL. This guy is an absolute beast, and probably the hardest hitter in college football. He led the nation with about 24 tackles for loss (yes, the entire nation). Check out his video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsr4YIWgazc.
I think he is good enough to take mid first round. Just my opinion.
by buffaloboy90 on Mar 11, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Zack Follett
From video, he certainly looks like a player, and thanks to you, is someone I would consider.
Why is he currently ranked around a low third rounder, and not higher? Is it is size, or lack of timed speed?
If you have more on this guy, throw it up here. I’d like to know more about him myself.
by krytime on Mar 11, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did some digging
He is listed some places as a 4th or 5th round prospect. I think size (although not terrible) and speed hold back his stock some. But he should be a good special teamer and quality back up at the least. If he is there in the 4th I would grab him.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matthews
would function much like a DE in passing situations. plus he is surprising fluid in changing directions and extremely quick.
I agree about the Oline comment as well. OBD have lost too many bodies in the middle to not make that a priority.
Not shocking that OBD may like Pettigrew then most think. They seem to covet superior blocking TE’s, especially one with size and untapped receiving potential.
by gatornation on Mar 11, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm big on Matthews too
I wrote a post on him, and also added the video link of his better plays in 2008. I think he has better potential than both Maualuga or Cushing, but at #11? I need more time to digest this one.
I’m also not impressed with the 3 DEs as well.
Thanks G for the insights!
Bills fan half way around the world
by moncheri on Mar 11, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LG?
thanks Geronimo. Please tell me that we are not going to wait until the draft to address our LG position. I pray that OBD isn’t hoping Duke falls to us in round 2 to fill that spot. If we have to fill our starting LG in the draft, that will be an ugly situation. We don’t need a rook there and it will take a pick away from us filling another position of need (LB/DE/TE).
by CBATL32 on Mar 11, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mathews is projected as the 3rd best LB on that team
mathews is definately not worth the 11th pick and i’m not sure there is a LB outside of curry that is.. maybe cushing, rey isn’t versatile enough and would cause us to move poz outside and i’m not sure if he is good enough in coverage to play MLB in our scheme. Pett is not worth the 11th pick, you want a playmaker a gamebreaker if you are going to take a TE that early and pett is solid, but he’s not either of those two things..
If orakpo is there it’s not even a decision.. he is the guy we take.. he is the most pro ready (most likely to be able to make an impact in the first year), has the size the strength quickness and speed to play DE in a 43.. the guys a beast.. and he will definately be gone by 11, but if he’s not then we are thanking the football gods and our pick should be obvious at that point.
by Shovel51 on Mar 12, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im just ready for the draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A person who performs good Karma (deeds) is always held in high esteem
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 11, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You and me both brother.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 11, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you and me and you thrice brethren
JUST WINN BABY WINN!!!!!!
by J2 on Mar 11, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you and me fourthice?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
That’s why I need this 3 week buffer of March Madness to get here….nothing better than that…then when the Madness is over, the Master’s is here and then just 2 weeks till the NFL draft at that point….I love the draft as much as anyone but 8 straight weeks of talking it from here till then will drive me insane……if I’m not that already
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Mar 11, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of Matthews, Maybin, Brown, etc.
A good article at the national football post illustrates the importance of the 10-yard split times for players, especially edge rushers. here is the link
by gatornation on Mar 11, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great find gator!
Very good article. Two years ago a did a comprehensive analysis of the top 10-15 LBs in the draft (the year we drafted Poz). One of the main stats I looked at was the first 10 and 20 yards of the NFL draft. Here were the results for the 10-yard split:
10 Yards:
Lawrence Timmons: 1.50 (1.56)
Patrick Willis: 1.53 (1.52)
Paul Posluszny: 1.56 (1.53)
Jon Beason: 1.60 (none)
All of those guys with the exception of Timmons are solid starters for their teams. I would love to go back and look at the DE’s for years past and see if there is such a correlation. Good find gator!
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
I’m liking that site more and more. very good analysis done by several of their writers.
I think it’s clear that Maybin was getting a bad rap because of his perceived “poor” 40-time when in fact his 10 yard split was excellent.
by gatornation on Mar 11, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you found 10 yard splits for this year?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 11, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't find them
will continue to look
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 11, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After reading Geronimo's thoughts and looking at this list...
The LBs make the most sense if DE is off the board (or not a high priority pause Kurupt).
I don’t care who we pick, we need to fill a spot of need. OG, DE, LB are all fine with me and TE is put on the back burner. I have been clamoring for one but unless we fill one of the need spots stat I don’t see how it can happen and still get a TE in here.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 11, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i can't see
pettigrew at #11 just because our defense greatly needs a front 7 player….and right now we have absolute SPOTS to fill at LB AND OG….so we DESPERATELY need players there…..I would not be happy at all if we are planning on starting a rookie OG or a rookie LB…you can’t PLAN on doing that….I do like Matthews though cuz of his speed and athleticism….we need speed, speed kills….
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Mar 11, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
I would not be happy at all if we are planning on starting a rookie OG or a rookie LB
We started Poz at LB his rookie year. There is no better option on the team (than one of those LBs) then that guy will start.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 11, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree...
i definately have no problem starting a rookie LB.. that is the running back of defense when it comes to rookies being able to make a huge impact in the first year.. look back at all the defensive rookies of the year.. they are almost always LB’s.. I’d be fine w/ guard to, i mean the best player will be put on the field so if that player is a rookie then great.. we did a good job drafting
by Shovel51 on Mar 12, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reason #1 NOT to pass on Pettigrew
Speed is overrated. How many TEs are asked to run fly routes? It’s what they do after the catch that’s most important to me, and most great ones have enough speed combined with that ability to shed defenders.
Besides 4.8 isn’t that slow!
I’m okay with taking him as the 4th best player in the draft: that is after Raji, Orako, Brown, and Maybin are gone.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 11, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That is to state:
4th-best player that fits the Bills NEEDS.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 11, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m okay with taking him as the 4th best player in the draft: that is after Raji, Orako, Brown, and Maybin are gone.
Wouldn’t that make him the fifth best player?
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 11, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why he's the boss guys!
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 11, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, I guess it would him that.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 11, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
i might consider taking him ahead of Rajii, that’d be a tough decision.. i think if orakpo, brown, maybin are all gone.. i would be shopping that 11th spot very very hard to try and slide back a few picks
by Shovel51 on Mar 12, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what does pett do after the catch??
he usually get tackled right after the catch.. doesnt look smooth or comfortable running w/ the football after the catch.. and to be honest he really doesnt break that many tackles guys just go low and take him right down.. he looks more powerful than he actually is when it comes to being able run powerfully.. breaking tackles is a combination of speed and power… he is a big powerful guy, but not really that powerful of a runner. i mean he’s alright.. but some of you guys act like he’s the next coming
by Shovel51 on Mar 12, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I act like Pettigrew is anything BUT the next coming. With that said, there’s hardly an elite corp of TEs to live up to in Buffalo Bills history. I know I never meant to state that Pettigrew can do all those things (break tackles well, etc), but I did mean that those are the things I value highly, not straight-line speed. They’ve got that on the team already.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 12, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
te’s do not have to be fast to be effective, they have to be smart to be able to find the hole in zone coverage, know how to use their body, tough to get those hard yards and stick there nose in there on running plays.. that’s why as much i want a dlineman.. i wouldn’t be too upset if we did draft pett, just because i’m curious to see what he is actually capable of… which probably isn’t a good enough reason for me to be loby’n for him at 11.. curiousity killed the cat
by Shovel51 on Mar 12, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ayers
What are some thoughts on him. He is getting a lot of good press lately. Mayock has him ranked about 12th overall and yahoo has him at 13. He has good measurables and supposedly handled Andre Smith pretty good when he played against Alabama. I do not know much about him, but he seems to have all the tools to both rush the passer and play the run.
by billsfan69 on Mar 11, 2009 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
I don’t think Ayers is a good fit for the Bills. After looking at him on tape he’s not a very good pass rusher.
by buffaloboy90 on Mar 11, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we needed a LDE, he’d be a good fit (well we do need one, but a pass rusher is a bigger need). Our pass rush is so pathetic, adding another non-pass rushing DE just doesn’t make sense….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 12, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pettigrew at TE and DE???
Well, his sack total would match his TD output last season. Which by all numbers was zero, zippo, nil, zilch.
If the DE’s are gone by the time we pick at #11, i’m sure the Bills will be offered a trade down option and should take it to add additional picks. When they do trade down a bit, they should add OLB Matthews to the mix. And depending what they received in return for trading down add either Mack,(if its a low first round pick), Robinson or Unger if its another 2nd round pick. With Our pick in the 2nd round go for either Sintim OLB or go TE with either Casey, Coffman or Nelson.
The reason why only those 3 TE’s and not Pettigrew is pretty simple to me.
1. In the combine, he ran a pedestrian 4.89 on the 40, and his shuttle time was not very good as well.
2. Buffalo already has a blocking TE on there roster from last years draft Derek Fine. So do we need 2 blocking TE’s?
3. Pettigrew’s redzone production was not eye popping in college and here is a comparison between the other 3 names mentioned………..
a. James Casey’s senior year- 111 rec. for 1329 yards and 13 TD’s
b. Shawn Nelson’s senior year- 53 rec. for 557 yards and 3 TD’s
c. Chase Coffman’s senior year- 90 rec. for 987 yards and 10 TD’s
d. Pettigrew’s senior year- 42 rec. for 472 yards and 0 TD’s
4. If Pettigrew was having trouble in the passing game against college LB’s, do you think its going to get better in the Pro’s where the linebackers are faster and better across the board?
5. Character issues………. do we need more of that on our team?
So everyone tell me, who is the better playmaking TE in this years draft?
I know i did not mention any DE’s but after the top 3 in the draft, there is a sack drop off with the other DE’s in the draft. I know we need a play maker at DE, and maybe Ellis is the answer and maybe the Bill’s can add Jason Taylor from FA (since the redskins cut him) till Ellis comes around. Adding both OLB’s i mentioned above (Matthews and Sintim) would strengthen our LB’s and give us 2 OLB’s that can blitz and get to the quarterback. In return it would give our defense a sense of unpredictability to whom is coming on the pass rush and who is dropping into coverage.
by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Mar 12, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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