Answer me this?

by mavadjdj on Mar 15, 2009 10:02 AM EDT Comment 23 comments

Because TO's arrival hasn't been beaten to death enough, the Toronto Sun had this line in one of its columns today:

Question worth pondering: Without the added Rogers-Toronto riches, do the historically cheap Buffalo Bills sign T.O.?

What do you think about the statement? And for those that hated the idea of games up here in Canada, does the thought that it may have brought us TO make you feel any better?

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A) The Bills aren’t “historically cheap”.
B) This sounds like a Toronto newspaper trying to keep their city relevant in Bills discussions.

Ultimately, them mentioning this has very, very little meaning.

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by Brian Galliford on Mar 15, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

They aren’t exactly Dallas or Washington in terms of spending either. And a great deal of Southern Ontario, myself included, are HUGE Bills fans, therefore comments and articles on the Bills are more than welcome by their readers. Considering we are probably hosting several games over the next several years, inserting money into Ralphs pocket I would say it is relevant. And if by that cash infusion he feels more apt to sign other bigger names in the future, again over the next several years, it could be seen as a huge positive for the Bills and their fans. There were quite a few Toronto bashers last season, and I was wondering if this thought did anything to change that, or lessen the puking feelings from those who totally oppose the bills playing anywhere than buffalo. Other than maybe not phrasing it in a politically correct way for the sensitive among us …. I thought it was an interesting concept that might have more meaning than some would care to admit

by mavadjdj on Mar 15, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's an opinion piece with no facts to back it up

I live in Ottawa and I’m a huge Bills fan. But I alsop like to keep things in perspective. That why I’m going to get redundant in the delivery of information in this post.

Rogers Communications leased 8 games over five years from the Buffalo Bills, at the price of 78 million dollars. If the games were played in Buffalo, they would have brought in about 50 to 55 million dollars to the Bills (as reported by the CBC), Rogers Communications leased out the games for 78 millon. Ralph Wilson and the Bills do not get a penny of reveniew from the Toronto games; ticket sales, parkings costs, concetion stands, merchandise, basicly everything sold a the Toronto games goes to Rogers Comunications LTD. The rights for which they paid 78 million dollars for. Ralph Wilson simply saw it as a win win situation. Make an extra 25 million and devellop the fan base is southern Ontario. But it’s not a 25 million dollar difference, over 5 years, that would make or break us signing TO. And while I’ll admit that they don’t have nearly as much money as the Dallas Cowboys or the Washington Redskins, they’re not going bankrupt either. The Bills have the money needed for signing a star to a modest contract.

Now before you jump the gun and call me a Toronto Basher, I’m not. I like the fact that the Bills play a game per year in Toronto. It’s ood for the team, it’s good for the fan base and its good publicity for the NFL in general. That being said, I am against the Bills permanantly moveing to Toronto; They belong in Buffalo.

What I will ask of you is to consider the source of the news, the Toronto Sun, and compare that with the content of the rest of its tabloid like content. You must also realize that this is not a factual news piece, but an opinion piece, which also means that the writer can pretty much write whatever he wants if he thinks it’s going to sell. Personally when I’m looking for a good newspaper in the Toronto region, I read the Toronto Star; and when they start reporting something like this, in a none opinion piece, then I’ll consider it as a serious topic of conversation and not just a news maker put into a tabloid like newspaper.

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 15, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good read

that really puts the whole deal into perspective. Id say that if the bills picked up say jason brown, TO, and ray lewis then maybe the Toronto deal played into the decision a little bit. But one big name free agent signing every few years isnt unheard of or has everyone forgotten about Drew Bledsoe or even Derrik Dockery?

by billsstein on Mar 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good response CBF!

I live in Montreal and I feel the exact same way. OBD isn’t necessarily cheap and they proved a few years ago when they went after Dockery & Walker. I think their ownership is too old to take the right decisions and their lack of a true GM is what creates the biggest illusion that they are cheap. They are not cheap so much as they are grossly mismanaged!

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Mar 15, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Toronto Sun is a crap shoot newspaper thats a few pages short of a tabloid.

I had the priviledge gags of be able to (forced to) read it when I was in Toronto on business. Believe me when I say that you should put just as much weight behind the opinions of the Toronto Sun as you would put on what the Daily Enquirer reports.

The “Rogers-Toronto riches” don’t make much of a difference in the long run. If the games were played in Buffalo, they would have brought in about 50 to 55 million dollars to the Bills (as reported by the CBC), Rogers Communications leased out the games for 78 millon. Ralphy simply saw it as a win win situation. Make an extra 25 million and devellop the fan base is southern Ontario. But it’s not a 25 million dollar difference, over 5 years, that would make or break us signing TO.

Once again, take the opinions and the reportings of the Toronto Sun with a grain of salt and move on.

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 15, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Brian is dead on. I also think every single thing CanadianBillsfan said is correct too.

Basically the Toronto deal probably had absolutely nothing to do with Buffalo signing TO, but it does give them a decent chunck of extra money to use on players each offseason. I’m sure it effects their plans in a larger sense, but moves like TO, resigning Evans, trading for Stroud or signing players like Mitchell or Hangartner or whoever aren’t in any way directly related to the Toronto deal.

by kaisertown on Mar 15, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Kaiser

I think your right too. The extra chunk of money does not directly affect who the Bills sign, but it does affect the team in the greater scheme of things.

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 15, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CBF- You said it all buddy - I tip my cap

The time to deliver is now and if you fail to do so you will no doubt witness the consequences first hand.

by Cutter3636 on Mar 15, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t thank me. You were the one with all the great info!

by kaisertown on Mar 15, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great info?

Nah I just read a few news papers (the two in Ottawa, and an few online) and then I filter out the BS.

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 16, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be rude when I said filter out the BS. I just think that way to many opnion pieces pass off as actualy news in today’s media. It worries me a little in fact.

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 16, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK lets try this

I didn’t really post to debate whether or not the toronto sun is a hack newspaper, I agree it is. Let me try rephrasing my initial thought in a hypothetical. Would Bills fans be willing to watch 2 home games a year in Toronto if a: it meant making the playoffs every year or b: it meant signing one or two big name free agents above who they would normally have signed.

by mavadjdj on Mar 16, 2009 8:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think leasing the games to Buffalo changes the FA the Bills sign.

The amount of money comming in from the leased games isn’t enough to change how the Bills aproach the offseason. That being said, it does affect the overall franchise by providing finantial stability, which is a VERY good thing. Maybe even helping garantee that the Bills stay in Buffalo longer.

Personally I don’t see the Bills permanantly moving to Toronto. There are a lot of people in Canada, a lot of them in government, that are against the Bills moving north of the border, mainly for the increadibly negitive impact it would have on the CFL. That would mean the Bills would move to another city much ferther away than Toronto.

Let me ask another, more pertinant question:

Would Bills fan be willing to let two games per year be played in Toronto if it garanteed the team stayed in Buffalo?

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 16, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes.

short answer.

Long answer – if one of those games was preseason and one regular season, sure. If they are both regular season games then no.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Mar 16, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, since that already happens, then no.

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by Brian Galliford on Mar 16, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

I know that for three of the five years it’s one in the preseason and one in the regular season. I hope that those games in Toronto keep the Bills in Buffalo.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Mar 16, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

See I think that thats what this Bills in Toronto Series is eventually moving towards. Having 2 regular season games with elevated revenue might actually make the team financially stable enough that you wouldn’t have to relocate it to Toronto, or LA. I’d find it acceptable.

Also note that I don’t want the Bills to relocate and think they should stay in Buffalo, and that I would much rather drive the extra 45 minutes to see a game in Buffalo than in Toronto. So to me having two regular season games in Tdot is the lesser of two evils.

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 16, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NO - NEVER mavadjdj - Ever

Simply because a winning formula doesn’t coexist with signing two or however many big name FA’s per year. Super bowls are won through the draft by attaining good players out of college and having a good coach create positive chemistry on the field and in the players’ heads. Actually, I will come out and say that I think the games in Toronto are a joke. Especially considering that what – 60% of the season ticket holders are from Rochester?? The only reason games are being played there is because Ted Rogers shelled out $75 million and they have the stadium. Toronto is a hockey town and Canada will never be a place for the NFL.

The time to deliver is now and if you fail to do so you will no doubt witness the consequences first hand.

by Cutter3636 on Mar 16, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Toronto is a huge city with money.

That has a stadium and Rogers paid 75M. It’s not like some dude in Canton, Ohio, for instance could get the same thing if he shelled out 75M.

This doesn’t have as much to do with free agents as it does with keep the Bills stable and in Buffalo. Buffalo is shrinking. Toronto is not.

I don’t like it any more than anyone else but them’s the breaks.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Mar 16, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True Matt but.....................

I have been to Toronto plenty of times and I love the city. I just think that football cannot coexist with hockey in that city. Nobody talks about football, hockey is always the buzz up there. Last year when the Bills came up for the preseason and the regular season, the city was buzzed by football for two weekends and then they simply reverted back to their hockey talk when the Bills left town.

The time to deliver is now and if you fail to do so you will no doubt witness the consequences first hand.

by Cutter3636 on Mar 16, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's all we need though.

It’s a cash grab, a business decision, whatever you want to call it. The Bills make money (and fans) off the game. If one of those Toronto companies buys a suite for a season, it’s been a success.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Mar 16, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Both of you are right

Cutter is right in saying thatToronto will never be a football city, but there are enough diehard football fans for a few games per year to be played there and it being profitable to the Bill

Matt is right in saying that it’s a cashgrab. They’re not trying to establish a permanent foothold in Toronto, they’re trying to get one of the many HUGE Toronto businesses to buy a few boxes, and get the Southern Ontario fans to cross the border into Buffalo when they can’t afford the games in Toronto, therefore creating more sell outs in Buffalo.

I think Ralph was brilliant in leasing those games, he literally cannot lose. If the games in Toronto fail, it falls on the league cause he has nothing to do with them, if they are a sucess, he win BIG.

by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 16, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs