Monday Update: Bills still waiting on Coles
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 9:00 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintOver the weekend, the Buffalo Bills made two under-the-radar free agent signings when they signed themselves a new backup quarterback in Ryan Fitzpatrick and a new starting center in Geoff Hangartner. We've been fortunate to have SB Nation's Bengals and Panthers bloggers drop by to talk about Fitzpatrick's skills and Hangartner's potential; if you're looking for a little light reading on both of our new players and didn't drop by yesterday, those are the links to do so.
The team did not host any free agent visitors on Sunday, but that doesn't mean that we went without news. Here's the latest on four more guys that have had their names associated with the Bills activity-wise over the busy first weekend of free agency.
Dave Hutchinson of the Newark Star-Ledger is reporting that the Bills are the team pursuing WR Laveranues Coles hardest. Hutchinson also mentions that two teams thought to be interested in bidding on Coles' services, the Dolphins and Browns, have already dropped out of the running. Teams like Cincinnati may enter the bidding (depending on what happens today with T.J. Houshmandzadeh), but right now, it's "Buffalo or wait" for Coles.
The Bills, however, are playing their cards correctly on this. Obviously the team wants him here, but they're not going to leave an offer dangling out there forever so that Coles can use it as leverage if a new team enters the bidding. We felt sure, and it was confirmed to us by a source close to the team, that the Bills have an end date on their offer to Coles. They'll pull the offer and move on before getting into a bidding war with him, and that's the smart play. It's on Coles' shoulders from here. Hopefully, we'll know something by day's end, but for now, we'll dub Mr. Coles "Panda II".
Why didn't the team have any free agents in the building on Sunday? Two reasons. One, Coles is currently their top priority, and as the team doesn't have oodles of cash to spend, they clearly have a bit of waiting to do on Coles before they can start talking deals with anyone of significance. The more important reason, however, is that the Bills are reportedly working hard on securing an extension for OT Jason Peters and trying to find a way to re-sign CB Jabari Greer.
Peters, if you recall, held out for the entirety of last off-season seeking a new deal. Buffalo is determined to avoid history repeating itself. There isn't a huge rush to get Peters signed, but the sooner it's done, the better - Buffalo needs to know exactly what their cap situation looks like once he's extended so that they can continue adding talent.
Greer has been a priority for the team for some time, but his is one of the hottest names remaining on the free agent market. Greer has already visited with Detroit and Tampa Bay, and other teams, including Denver, St. Louis and New Orleans, are reportedly interested as well.
After releasing LG Derrick Dockery last week, the Bills have reportedly expressed interest in disgruntled Chiefs guard Brian Waters. The 32-year-old Waters is looking to be moved, as he isn't particularly thrilled with the Chiefs' new power duo of Scott Pioli and Todd Haley. Depending on what happens with Coles, don't be shocked if the Bills ramp up their efforts to kick the tires on Waters - they might even have an extra WR to dangle as trade bait by the time their interest becomes more legitimate.
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Well I totally agree on the deadline the BIlls’ have made. I think they are smart in realizing that so they don’t get ransomed, an offer is out there, they put the pressure on the Coles’ camp now, and while they and many fans would love to have Coles’ he’s not worth spending ridiculous money on. However, the proposition of having a X-Jet on our team, to torch our AFC East Foe is a prospect that is highly favorable.
However, I’ll admit I’m almost more intrigued by the prospect of acquiring Barry Waters. If Peters’ gets his new deal, pairing Waters with Peters on that left side, may give us that Left side we thought we were getting with Dockery. And with Butler & Walker on the Right side, we would be extremely solid up front against the 3-4 dynamic defenses in our division that our slated to face us
MARVelous
It's BRIAN Waters Marv!
BRIAN! BRIAN! BRIAN!
No Barry!
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
You totally MRW'ed that
A person who performs good Karma (deeds) is always held in high esteem
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 3, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
fits the definition to a T
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
while
center is mucho important, I think the size alone of Hangartner is a huge upgrade. But more importantly I think people don’t realize how friggn bad Dockery was. He wiffed so many times. He just got fat and lazy. Peters is a road grader dominating defenders in the last 6 games. Dockery was a pile of garbage. Bringing in a guy like Waters to help move those NT’s would be a huge upgrade. Having Chambers and Bell as solid backups then, and possibly Preston would make me very happy with our OL
MARVelous
Dock wasn’t as bad as you make him out to be. I think he was released because he never lived up to his contract. Remember, he was paid basically the same as Hutchinson—an elite guard. Well, Dock was more of an average guard in his two years in Buffalo. OBD got tired of writing elite sized checks for about average performance.
If Buffalo goes with 7 OLs on the roster I wouldn’t be surprised if Preston wasn’t brought back. If the team goes with 8 OLs one of them will hopefully be a high round draftee, meaning there wouldn’t be any room for Preston. I don’t want to jinx it but I think we may not have Preston to kick around anymore.
no
Dock wasn’t “that” bad but my issues with Dock is that he was lazy and literally would not block anyone on many plays. I feel like he wasn’t heady enough to understand protections and communicate and work as a team on the OL. And I guarantee having him ole plenty of people hurt the offensive units team chemistry. Just ask Jason Peters how he felt about Dock.
MARVelous
dockery
wiffed badly on some blocks and he was consistently late providing a double team w/Peters.
Michael Lombardi said it best this morning at the National Football Post (). See #2.
Waters seems to be a great target, cautiously optimistic
The guy was a four-time Pro Bowler and is easily an upgrade over Dockery. He’s only 32, which isn’t too old for an offensive lineman. I didn’t think the Bills were going to really hit their areas of need too much, but I’ve been pleased to see progress being made this offseason — let’s just keep it going. It’s not enough to be mentioned as in the running for four or five big names and then not end up getting any of them.
Yes, yes it does. The Coles stuff is there, though.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
what kind of time limit are we looking at?
any idea? does it expire today or just “soon”? is this whole thing hinging on tj’s decision?
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
I like that the Bills put a time limit
But i think that if it expires today, than the limit was too short. You’ve got a good thing here, with a very good chance of landing COles. I get why you want to push him into signing, but just giving him a coupl of days isn’t a great idea IMO. I think a week would have been good enough to make your point without actually jeoperdizing the deal. Cause I can’t help but think that the front office might be blowing it here. Lets hope not, cause Coles would be great in a Bills jersey.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 10:24 AM EST reply actions
Agreed
We have what, like $30M in cap room. Would him taking a few more days to decide really alter the plans all that much?
It’s been 2-3 days since the guy visited and he’s trying to get other teams involved/interested. What’s wrong with that and why do we need an answer ASAP??
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
I hope the offer expires today
IMO, if he is contemplating the decision then he isn’t getting the money he was expecting. But to not sign with a team that is a good fit because of the money is just foolish. I’m sure the bills put a fair offer on the table. This just speaks of Coles character or shall I say Panda II.
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
What if he doesn't feel that it's a good fit?
How do you know that the Bills put a fair offer on the table? This is going to be his last big contract, he has every right to try and get the money that he wants as well as be in a situation where he feels best.
If anything this speaks to the character of Bills fans who think that Coles already owes them something. I hope he’s not like Donte.
by twoeightnine on Mar 2, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
he's going to sign here
within two days anyway so it doesn’t really matter. He’s waiting for another option as he should be, it won’t come, and he’ll happily sign with Buffalo.
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
I think you missed my point
Coles owes the Bills nothing and he deserves to get his money. What I’m trying to point out is this…………
Coles wouldn’t have come to Buffalo if he was interested or thought he wouldn’t fit here. Money wise, he wouldn’t have shown up unless it was in the ballpark of his asking price (His agent wouldn’t be doing his job if Coles didnt know what the ballpark figure the Bills were offering). If the Bills are only offering 4mil a season, he wouldn’t even have come here. If he didn’t feel he was a good fit, why would he still even consider a deal. If that was the case I would hope OBD would realize he doesnt feel he fits in Buffalo. I think the contractual hang up is the gauranteed dollars. That is why I feel the Bills should pull the offer. He either wants to be apart of a “team” or is only concerned with money. My reasoning for this comes from the Panda situation last year.
If you go on a job interview, and then tell the perspective employer that your looking for more money and they will say “sorry, this is all we can offer”. Then that employer will not leave the offer on the table for weeks waiting for your decision. This is more of my personal ethical preference. If you dont like the offer and wanted time to think about it, Im 100% fine with that.
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
Players go on visits to teams that they have no desire to sign with all the time.
It’s all part of negotiating. If you don’t you’re basically saying to whoever you’re seriously talking to that they’re your only choice and odds are you’re not going to get the contract that you want.
I see your point 289
But we were his only option at first….. and OBD isnt known as big spenders, maybe he was hoping to get leverage against miami.
If he really wanted to be apart of this team he would have signed with us.
Thats why I say let him walk, WR#2 isnt our biggest need
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
PFT has bit on Coles up
The only new (I think) tidbit there is that Coles is looking for $6 million per year. If he didn’t pounce on Buffalo’s offer I guess we can infer that the Bills didn’t go that high. Since pretty much everyone has described Buffalo’s offer as serious I’m guessing it’s in the $5 million per year range. Either that or Coles wants $6 million from most teams and more from the Bills.
Well if our bid is 7
He is probably just saying well, I’ll wait till the deadline the bills give me, look a the FA landscape with Housh, etc. and then decide Bills or bust…of course he will get picked up and I hope he doesn’t get like Panda last year, and just sign a one year deal somewhere when we were offering 4 years 26-30 mil 16 mil or so guaranteed. We’ll see, but thats my guess on what OBD is offering
The Bills CAN win every game
issues
….as the team doesn’t have oodles of cash to spend, they clearly have a bit of waiting to do on Coles before they can start talking deals with anyone of significance.
Umm, am I missing something here? Buffalo signed a back-up QB and a back-up/up and coming guard. Where did the nearly $30+ million in cap space go? I’m am sick of money as an excuse. It’s almost like the default rationale if Buffalo is not doing something. I’m not advocating for them to go out and agressivly go after other players, but to say they can’t because of money does not seem right. I’m tired of the pocket-book excuses. Other teams like the Jets and Skins are not using thier minimal cap space as an excuse (and AGAIN i’m not advocating for Buffalo to go out and waste their money, just that ‘lack of money’ as an excuse for not doing so is bogus)
The more important reason, however, is that the Bills are reportedly working hard on securing an extension for OT Jason Peters and trying to find a way to re-sign CB Jabari Greer.
This just doesn’t make sense. So Buffalo can’t go after other free agents because they are working hard to try to give an extension to a player (Peters) that has been on the roster all off-season who will continue to be on the roster for the next two years? Why are they wasting the valuable first few days of free agency on something they should have been doing the past two months? Am I missing something? The only thing I can think of (and someone mentioned in another post) is that they are trying to see if they can work out an extension, and if not, then start actively shopping him. That makes sense, but again, that could have been done a month ago.
John I.
So Buffalo can’t go after other free agents because they are working hard to try to give an extension to a player (Peters) that has been on the roster all off-season who will continue to be on the roster for the next two years? Why are they wasting the valuable first few days of free agency on something they should have been doing the past two months? Am I missing something? The only thing I can think of (and someone mentioned in another post) is that they are trying to see if they can work out an extension, and if not, then start actively shopping him. That makes sense, but again, that could have been done a month ago.
Could just be more excuses….
I agree with you John. Waiting until the first few days of FA to negotiate w/Peters, and then using it as an excuse would be pretty bad…
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
I still think they offered him an extension a while ago and he is just choosing not to sign it...
or holding out for more money. Why would they wait until free agency opened? It doesn’t make sense.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Where did the nearly $30+ million in cap space go?
They also have big offers in to Peters and Greer. If all three of them sign that’s it for free agency so they have to wait for one of the guys, specifically Greer and Coles, to move on if they want to sign someone else. That makes sense. They are not goign to spend to the cap but those three guys will cost major moolah.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
anyone remember the offer made to bryant johnson?
cuz he signed a 3 year 9 million deal with the lions this season. that seam below what he would have gotten from the bills, but i could be wrong
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
chris brown write
that it would take a 3rd and maybe a 7th for water to come to buffalo, plus a new deal around 5-mil a year. i dont think thats bad, but that may be just me. what do you guys think
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
I'd rather
only give up 1 pick this year. Maybe a 3rd this year and a 6th next year (that could be a 4th or something higher if he makes the Pro Bowl). I really don’t want to have to give him a huge new contract, but maybe they can get away with giving him less money for more years (as all aging players are concerned about having enough time to play). Maybe something like 4 year/$16 million, or 5 year/$21 million w/ guaranteed money all in the first two years.
John I.
If he came to the Bills, i’d rather a 4th wasn’t contingent on the Pro Bowl. His being elected already almost guarantees he’ll return, whether it’s deserved or not.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be willing to give up this years third rounder
and either Roscoe Parrish or another pick next year, if the Chiefs like that then why not get it done?
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think Roscoe is worth a 4th rounder or so. Would you give up a 3rd and 4th for Waters?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
I would
I agree that Roscoe is worth a 4th, but most teams don’t see it that way and this year’s market doesn’t see it that way either, and unfortunatly we have to go with the market. Plus we’d be cutting about 3M in salery. And lets be honest, 3M per year is a lot for a glorified punt returner, which does bring his worth down in a trade.
Personaly i’d prefer trading this year’s third and a 3rd to 6th pic next year depending on how Waters does. But anything that gets Waters in buffalo without costing us more than a third this year is fine by me.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he realized that team’s a joke as long as they continue dolling out money for everyone but a talented QB.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
T-Jax has to feel good about retaining the job.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think so
Rosenfels (Besides his name) isn’t terrible. He’s definitely better than Jackson. As long as he remembers to keep his feet on the ground, he’ll do just fine. Probably better in Minnie than he did in Houston.
T-Jax is very very bad!
About the only thing he can retain is water!
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
Can we really afford to have FA at every line position?
This is my offseason philosophy.
1. Draft your team
2. Sprinkle in some talent with FA pick ups.
3. Resign your own players
- - mid teir pick ups to improve the team. Top FA will always cost to much even if they are productive.
- - As long is they arent looking for monster deals that only some other team is dumb enough to pay.
Buffalo can not afford to always sign top Free agents. You have to have a good mix of the 3 above to have strong team and a STABLE salary cap situation. Besides the Bills front load there contracts opposed to the Jets and Redskins.
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
We groomed Peters and Butler.
What top Free Agents are you talking about on our current line? Walker? Chambers was a street FA that has seemingly gotten better. Hangartner likely didn’t get a huge contract.
I agree that we need to build our lines through the draft better, but it’s not like we’re giving $5-7M per player on our line from other teams…..
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
Before releasing Dock
Dock 7mil avg
Walker 5mil avg
My point which i didnt get across well was this, Can we really afford to pay all our lineman at least 6-7 mil per year? that would be a huge portion of salary cap space. My point was that we need to mix up the team makeup. Just like we plan to do with Peters and how we resigned Butler. I think we can find G/C in this draft that will fit in between Peters, Butler, Walker.
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
I don't know in which thead it was, but someone put up Water's cap numbers for his last 3 years
and they vary between 3.9M and 2.8M, his contract maybe averaged 5M per year, but it was very front loaded and we would get the 3 cheapest years of his contract.
Sorry to say it, but i think your argument is nul and void simply on that fact.
Although I still think that even if we get Waters, we should still draft an interior lineman.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
But he will likely request a new deal when he gets here.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
if..... he gets here.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
if...
and even then, if he wants a new deal, i wouldn’t give him more than 5M per
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 4, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
I Hope the Circle of Death...
passed around the Sex Panther for Coles’ visit….
because it works %70 of the time, every time.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
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