How should Buffalo complete their offensive line?
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 1:01 PM EST
in Opinion
131 comments
The Buffalo Bills entered the 2009 NFL free agent signing period with a glaring weakness at center. After watching both Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston underwhelm at the position for the past three seasons, it was almost a virtual certainty that the Bills would look for a pivot to anchor their offensive line. On Saturday, the team found that pivot in former Panther Geoff Hangartner.
What wasn't widely anticipated, however, was the Bills still having an open position along their offensive line once they signed their center. Releasing Derrick Dockery will do that for you.
Therefore, even though they've answered the question at center (for the time being), Buffalo is still looking for the fifth and final starter on an offensive line that will only return three starters for the 2009 regular season.
Going the veteran route
There is a growing sentiment that Buffalo would prefer to address this final position - whether it be left guard or right guard, as Brad Butler is capable of playing both - with a veteran. The team already hosted a visit with free agent guard Kendall Simmons; the injury-prone vet reportedly passed a physical from team doctors, but it is unknown if he received any sort of offer.
Then it was reported yesterday that the Bills have inquired about the possibility of trading with the Chiefs for disgruntled guard Brian Waters. We also know that the team had contacted the agent for Vikings free agent center Matt Birk. That's now irrelevant with Hangartner on board - Buffalo passed on Birk as a center because he wanted to be paid like a guard, and they're probably not actually going to consider Birk as a guard - but it does prove that the team is seeking to take the veteran route along the line.
I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable with that notion. Buffalo is already attempting to extend Pro Bowl left tackle Jason Peters' deal. We're not sure of the parameters of Hangartner's new deal, but one has to imagine they were significant, as the Bills kept him from leaving town even though other teams were interested. If they get Peters done, they'll have given out contracts to Peters, Hangartner, Butler, right tackle Langston Walker and reserve Kirk Chambers. Is six free agent contracts (or, in the case of a possible trade, a re-structured contract) really the best plan of attack for the cash-strapped Bills?
Going the youth route
We do know that Buffalo's coaching staff is comfortable with the notion of playing Chambers - who was re-signed last Thursday - at either guard position. The only issue with that, obviously, is that that Chambers, who is Buffalo's top reserve along most of the line positions, can't exactly be that valuable depth player when he's not depth at all.
Still, the team has bigger fish to fry, including Laveranues Coles, Peters and their continued negotiations with free agent CB Jabari Greer. Can't the team find a youngster (or two) to compete with Chambers and bolster depth through the draft?
That's exactly how I'd play it. Chambers is a solid performer, and he's certainly an upgrade to Dockery at guard in terms of pass protection. I'd rather see the team continue to build the trenches via the draft than bring in a veteran, wait a year or two, and then have this same decision to make at that point in time. If there's one position on the football field (outside of quarterback) where it's a good idea to have a pseudo-"farm system" of constantly-developing talent, it's in the trenches. I just think that letting a rookie push Chambers and allocating free agent dollars to different causes is the best course of action for this team.
You are, of course, well within your rights to disagree with me. There's the poll. Looking forward to the discussion on this one.
0 recs |
131 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
I think Waters is our best hope here…Kansas City would have been worse without him there, and that’s saying something for a guard
by Hybrid1486 on Mar 2, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It is a draft deep with quality O-linemen
Draft one of them. I would prefer one of the center/guards we have already talked about, like Mack. I like the idea of having a him play guard and be groomed to play center in case Handgartner fails to impress.
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Mar 2, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
TJ Lang (6-4, 312), kid got a lot of good press from scouts at the bowls about him
Mean, tough, and likes to run block, he played tackle in college but shows the foot work and mentality to play as a starter in the pros at guard (like our own Butler). He should go anywhere between the 4-6 rounds in the draft this April. Considered by many scouts to be a top 15 guard. He does need to work on his hands at the next level inside.
NFLdraftscout.com reports via CBS’s draft coverage:
Positives: Good height with thick and strong upper and lower bodies. Absolute mauler who works hard on – and through – every play. Versatile enough to start at all three interior spots. Gets down quickly and is effective on cut blocks. Strong enough to stone and pancake his opponent. Fires out of his stance and uses his hands well on run plays; gets inside his man’s jersey and doesn’t let go. Punches and extends his arms to hold off defenders in pass protection. Good enough feet to get to linebackers, pull and trap. Aware enough to help the tackle and center on the same play. Hustles downfield on screens and reverses to throw the late block.
Negatives: Must learn to play inside in the NFL because he lacks the athleticism, arm length and hand size to be more than a short-term solution outside. Leans into his man too much, enabling the tackle to rip him off or pull him forward on a second effort. Tries to grab his man’s jersey on most every play instead of punching and resetting, which will be a problem against quicker defensive tackles.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
by WABillsfan on Mar 3, 2009 2:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Duke
I didn’t think I would ever say this, but the Bills should sign up Preston to a low-pay contract before he gets picked up by another team (at a low-pay contract). He is a terrible starter, but as a backup C and G, he is functional and has experience (and a certain known quantity). If Preston is signed, then the Bills have some flexibility to look at FAs and the Draft — without someone like Preston, the pressure to find a player works against the Bills.
by labill on Mar 2, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think Preston could surprise us. He is still young and learning. He has experience in our system and did improve the more he started. I also think he shows fire on the playing field, which seems to be hard to find in the Bills locker room.
by syrbillsfan on Mar 2, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as that fire doesn’t cost us points by wasting valuable time before the half…Oh, wait…
by pozzed51 on Mar 2, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Strangly enough, I agree
I detest Preston as a starter, but he has value as a depth lineman.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But this post is about who is the new starting LG...
Preston is not that guy. He is valuable interior depth, but who will start ahead of him at LG?
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully Waters
and then have a drafted G as the depth instead of Preston. that would be my ideal scenario.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my only point was that if Preston is signed, the Bills have greater flexibility in choosing between a FA and the Draft. Without him, we have a hole so big that the Bills may not be able to wait for the draft and be forced to get a FA.
by labill on Mar 2, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see where they have greater flexibility
Preston can’t start at that guard spot. He is only a back-up. They need a starting OG and that’s what we are trying to get. Back-ups can be signed in July.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We probably
Would have run out of time anyway
by syrbillsfan on Mar 2, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
You freely acknowledge that Preston is a ‘terrible starter’ but want to keep him? Why? If he sees the field he’s just going to be what he has been—a below average player. If Buffalo swings the Waters trade there’s no chance Preston will return. Even if Waters doesn’t come to Buffalo there’s a good chance Preston’s slot is filled with a 2nd or 3rd round draft choice.
by Ron From NM on Mar 2, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you sign him to the minimum, you can waive him later for low cost. He was good enough to replace Fowler and start — so, he may be a decent backup, at least. By signing him up, we have a base floor to work with. I would not say this if the Bills had not released Dockery — but now, we are looking at replacing 3 spots on the OL. We still need 2 players — by signing Preston, the Bills can at least have a better negotiable stance against a FA (or a team in a trade) because it will appear less desperate (after all, Preston was a starter for us) — it would allow us to wait for a FA’s price to go down in a few weeks and/or draft a player.
by labill on Mar 2, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Preston started because there was literally no one else. There is very little chance that Preston (or Fowler, for that matter) are doing anything other than preventing couches from flying up and hitting the ceiling on football Sundays in 2009. Why sign either of them now when both of them are very likely to be available later if things do look desperate.
I’d much rather see Buffalo take linemen in the draft (at least one of them with a high pick) and develop them into long term solutions—not patch it with a guy who has demonstrated that he doesn’t belong on the field.
by Ron From NM on Mar 2, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They will have to draft a G no matter what. They still need 2 FA (unless you want them to draft 2 Guards — I don’t think that would be wise). They have lost Preston, Fowler, Dockery and Whittle from last year’s squad. So, whether they sign Preston or not, they need more OLs. By signing Preston, they do not have to draft 2 OL — and we need the early draft picks for TE, DE, DT, LB (and one C/G).
by labill on Mar 2, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FA G/C
To be fair: If we sign Preston, we don’t have to keep him. It gives the FO the ability to pick someone they really covet later in the draft rather than being forced to get a guy at a certain position because they have a need.
I say sign Preston, but look for UDFAs and/or late round draftees to compete for backup spots and cut him if he is beaten or even almost beaten. That way, as “labill” already stated, he sets the floor rate for what is acceptable. I only think he is brought back simply because he may be better than what else is out there and he already knows the offense.
by NorCal BillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They can do that anyways.
No one is going to sign Preston anytime soon. If they don’t get anyone in the draft or sign a half dozen undrafted free agents then they can bother with him. If not having Preston signed is what prevents them from taking a player that they covet in the later rounds then they really have no idea what they’re doing.
by twoeightnine on Mar 2, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Preston could be signed for a low contract because he would take the first contract that is offered to him. He is young and was a starter, and a mid-round pick; he’s got good size. The thing is that we lost 4 members of the OL. With Hangartner, we still need 3 OLs. At worst, Preston can be what Whittle was last year. If we need 3 OLs, I really, really do not want to spend two (or 3!) draft picks on Guards. What good would a 7th round guard do, anyway? Preston can be waived once we get players in, but we can’t be in the hole 4 linemen for too long — puts the Bills in a weak negotiating position. The article by Brian implies that we have one offensive line position available, but we actually have 3 after Hangartner signing — that is my only point.
by labill on Mar 2, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What negotiating do they have to worry about right now?
A league minimum player holding out for a parking space closer to the door? They don’t need to draft two or three guards. They can sign undrafted free agents after the draft, they can sign Preston or Fowler after the draft. They can sign any of the dozens of other available free agents after the draft. They have Bell coming off the practice squad to fill one of those spots. Whittle was worthless and can be replaced by any sack of potatoes. Fowler and Preston were one and the same. Hangartner “replaced” Dockery though will be playing center.
Take a look at the roster. http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster.html
They’ve got more than enough Prestons on there right now. They have 9 OL signed to a contract right now before the draft and undrafteds are added.
by twoeightnine on Mar 2, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do Not Laugh
Actually, I did. Here is Duke Preston’s report by Scouts Inc. as a FA. He is considered a starter. I agree with everyone that is a terrible starter, but Duke is better than an low round rookie or a journey man free agent. He has experience, plays multiple positions, familiarity with the scheme, size, etc. The Bills could do a lot worse for a interior line backup. Again, my point is that the Bills have lost 4 of the 5 interior linemen and must replace them (Bell is an OT) — Preston could be good to fill a backup position (and we’ll still need 2 or 3 more). By the way, I do not understand why you think Preston can be picked up any time after the draft. I think he’ll take the first offer to come to him, and for that kind of contract, 31 teams could make an offer before the draft and will do so with his grading.
Insider Analysis
Grade 64
Expert’s Take Preston has seen more time as a starter in 2008 as a center and offensive guard. He has excellent size, strength and athleticism for an interior offensive lineman. He has natural power to anchor in the middle of the line as well as enough strength to get movement on double teams and power zone-blocking schemes in the running game. Preston is limited in space to connect with targets on the second level, but he’s a solid technician who understands angles and combination-blocking schemes. He uses his hands well to gain leverage and does a nice job to lock on and stay connected, once engaged. Preston doesn’t have the initial quickness that C Melvin Fowler has, but can be effective as a second-level blocker, when he keeps his pads down. He appears to have a good feel for the game and reacts well to stunts and twists. He was more aggressive in 2008 and is a versatile player who has value giving depth along the offensive line, but he’s shown he can also be an effective starter.
by labill on Mar 2, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with most of the scouting report.
I would like to see him back as a backup. I’ve said that all along.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like the Raiders are looking at Duke.
by labill on Mar 3, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good ridence
kinda hope they start him, would look good on Al Davis.
sorry i just really hate that guy.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 3, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A league minimum player holding out for a parking space closer to the door?
\
Funny… but he is a quality backup and will command more than the league minimum.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think that drafting linemen is the way to go – free agency should be about retaining your own free agents that fit that mold and maybe getting 1 or 2 players to fill other needs. I dislike building through FA as it doesn’t seem to work at all.
draft a g/c in the 2nd and have him push chambers is an excellent idea. that means we have a ton of flexibility on the interior of our line and that is always a good thing.
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I voted for the draft option.
Wouldn’t you expect the Bills to NOT pay out for interior linemen, based off what happened with Dock? I really don’t want them to give up picks and substantial money to land Waters. If they scout and draft someone, that’s the potential for at least a decade of production. Water gives you what, 2 years?
The way they’re approaching FA thus far leads me to believe they’re not going to break the bank for a vet.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like Waters at the right price. No more than a 3rd or 4th would be nice, and he’s under contract for 3 more years. After that, what quality vet is available? Probably not a lot. I wouldn’t draft a G before round 4 unless we were absolutely certain that player would be starting for us….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Isn’t everyone tired of our mediocre (bordering on bad) offensive line play? I know that I am. We will never have a playoff team (or know how good Trent is) until we have a solid, above average offensive line. If we can add a pro-bowl caliber LG to this line, we should finally have an o-line that is above average. This helps our defense too because our offense could actually run the ball and stay on the field for a while. I am tired of failed (late round) draft picks and speculative free agent signings for our offensive line. Lets bring in some proven talent for once.
by CBATL32 on Mar 2, 2009 1:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
They have an above-average LT and he played as though he was in the bottom 3rd. All i’m saying is that past production does not guarantee continued success in the NFL. They can sign Waters tomorrow and he could hit a wall, or get injured. Then they’re out the picks, a renegotiated contract, and possibly Parrish – for what? I just think the waters are potentially rough here (pun intended).
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or the draft pick could suck or get injured. Waters is a proven Pro Bowler, and even with 3-5 years left, he’s still a better option than a 2nd-4th round rookie….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutly agree with you K
I think Waters would be a good trade to make because the rewards outweigh the risks by A LOT. I think whenever you have the oppertunity to add a perenial pro-bowler, which is what Waters is, you do it. And even if we do trade for Waters, that doesn’t mean that we can’t dragt a center/guard and develop him over 2-3 years, like we did with Butler.
I think the best way to approach this would be to trade a 3rd rounder and a pick next year for Waters and then Draft a Guard in the second round.
I honestly don’t know why so many people are agaiNst trading for Waters and then still drafting a guard when thats what a lot of ppl wanted to do with Birk and have him groom a center. Waters would be a great mentor for a young guard, heck he could even teach Butler a thing or two.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the blog CBATL32!
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Filling the line
By all means, if we can get Brian Waters for a mid-level draft pick, we should do so- maybe a 4th rounder (+/- one Roscoe Parish). However, I consider Chambers to be a versatile back-up, not a starter. Regardless of how we deal with the Waters possibility, we should plan to take one of the center/guards in the draft, no later than round #3. Someone like Antoine Caldwell would likely be available in the third round, and such a player would add depth for now, plus great versatility.
by dukedoc76 on Mar 2, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A Veteran is the Way to Go...
There are still a handful of competent vets (Kendall Simmons and Cooper Carlise, for example) who could capably play LG and are young enough (they’re not young- but they’re young enough) to suppress the need to draft another guard in just another year or two. And since there were few to no viable starting DE’s and TE’s in FA- and the Bills unfortunately didn’t look to the market for a LB (Vilma and Boley were my preferences)- we have too many needs that we’ll be relying on the draft to solve, anyway, most conspicuously those I just mentioned: DE, OLB, and TE. Since the Bills’ front-office is irrationally loyal and committed to Kelsay at LDE but very perceptibly are looking for starters at TE and OLB, I imagine our draft will reflect that (they’ll insist they’re value picks- but they’ll be needs picks, too). So we’ll select a TE and OLB in the 1st and 2nd (in whichever order- but I have an unfortunate intuitive sense that Pettigrew will be the pick at 11 and that we’ll be too paranoid to trade down to try to seize him there. And then in the 2nd, we’ll take an OLB).
So it’s in the 3rd round- at the earliest- that we’d be selected a guard, anyway, IMO, and that’s even neglecting or pushing down what is IMO the Bills’ biggest need and what should be their selection at 11 if the value is commensurate w/the need: taking a DE to supplant Kelsay and generating a pass-rush.
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wish it wasn’t to be the case but I agree that the organization is probably going to go TE, then LB in the draft.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So then you agree that it wouldn’t be until the 3rd-round that we’d be selecting our starting LG? And if it’s the 3rd for a guard, are we just hoping late in the draft for a situational pass-rusher to be a diamond in the rough (Elvis Dumervil in the 4th w/Denver, for example). Obviously that late in the draft, we wouldn’t secure a starter, even if supplanting Kelsay on the depth chart could probably be accomplished by a late-round pick, IMHO.
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sick to my stomach thinking this front office will most likely NOT draft the pass rusher needed so badly. Maybin or bust at this point. Orakpo would be one Texas risk I hope they’d take, but he’ll be gone.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I swear...
if we use the 11th pick on Pettigrew, I will have my Bills tattoo lasered off.
by CBATL32 on Mar 2, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My goodness...
… I certainly hope not- the 11th overall pick for a TE should be reserved for one w/the potential to not only be someone who can stretch defenses but obviously also one w/much more widely known for his pass-receiving prowess than his blocking (not that being a balanced and great blocking TE isn’t a good thing; it just seems like a huge stretch at pick #11 and like a bit of a luxury for a team that doesn’t even yet own an adequate pass rush… or a pass rush at all). But anyway, I’m trying to find the idea of Pettigrew palatable because I think to some degree I think it’s inevitable. But yeah, I sure hope not- right now the value just isn’t there, Mike Mayock’s opinion notwithstanding (and even he thinks Pettigrew’s not going to go until late in the draft; little does he know the Bills)…
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Chargers, Chiefs, and Cowboys have all done remarkably well without asking their #1 TE to block. Look at their running games for evidence.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez both block very well.
Don’t use them in your argument. I have no idea about Witten.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the blog Grant!
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The draft is the way to go
I agree with Brian. Unless a truly irresistable interior lineman becomes available in FA or through a trade, we should use the draft. I’m hoping we trade down from #11 in order to add another pick in round 2. If the team is hell-bent on using the first rounder for defense, a good choice might be Connor Barwin, who looks to me like the combo OLB/DE with the most NFL potential in the draft, but there will be other options as well. Then use the first second-rounder for a TE, the next one for a C or G, and add another interior o-lineman in the third round. Some people will say that would be putting too much emphasis on the o-line in this year’s draft, but I would respond that it is in fact making up for years of neglect.
by Macktruck on Mar 2, 2009 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Most Well Constituted Teams...
…. don’t in any year in which they at least themselves believe they’re contenders find more than two starters in the draft. And yet that’s where we’ll be receiving our ‘09 starting TE and OLB… and that’s w/Kelsay unjustifiably retaining his starting role at LDE and Bryan Scott somewhat questionably justifiably starting at SS. Still, it’s the consensus that we yet seek (and not only seek, but HAVE TO seek) another starter- our LG- in the Draft, too? Haven’t we already given ourselves enough needs that we’re relying on the draft to address? I need a better explanation for a guard in the Draft than those offered, with all due respect.
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Couple of issues with this.
- I thought I made it pretty explicitly clear that the rookie isn’t being drafted to start, he’s being drafted to push Chambers. I’m comfortable with Chambers as a starting guard as long as there’s a long-term backup plan that will eventually push him back to his valuable reserve role.
- It’s hardly the consensus that we fill the position through the draft. The poll is about 50/50 as I type this.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm Not Mistaken...
… Whittle and Chambers struggled at RG during Butler’s absence in midseason. So while I love Chambers as our 3rd and swing tackle, I am not convinced he would or could do a suitable job in the interior.
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, I’m sorry for not reading what you wrote carefully enough. I still don’t like Chambers at LG, but I shouldn’t have mistaken you.
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, no need to apologize, just thought I’d point it out.
I’m not completely comfortable with Chambers starting, by the way. I can definitely see the merit of adding a veteran. I just don’t like the idea of trading picks to do it (Waters); I think if I had to pick a veteran, I’d go with Simmons over Waters.
I just think it’s high time we started building continuity along the lines than taking the plug-and-play approach every two years. If that means entering ‘09 with Chambers as the starter, I’m OK with that.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t Chambers a plug-and-play approach? The guy was a Tackle until he played a few games at G this year, and now he’s potentially a starter at G for us????
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By “plug and play”, I mean bringing in outside veterans to fill positions. I don’t view Chambers in the same light because even though he was a street FA, he developed into a viable option here.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully they’re bringing in USB3 players.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
USB3 players.
the standard for USB 3.0 is coming out soon – can’t freaking wait – very high data transfers.
oh – everytime I saw chambers on the field I saw someone who I didn’t have to pay too much attention to because I didnt’ see a lot of mistakes.
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep 3.0 is going to blow Firewire 800 away. I just want something that’s fast enough to run iTunes from an external without too much risky risky.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
itunes blows – apple’s ditching firewire and going with 3.0
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love iTunes – especially useful when you’re organizing a TB music library.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
their firmware updates leave something to be desired – they’ve blown up too many ipods because of testing.
would it be too much to ask to have it grab music your downloading instead of having to point to the folder or get a separate app to do it? look at VMusage – is it possible to eat more memory when playing music?
why is it installing safari and quicktime when I’m just updating the software?????????
and my god its slow
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is the ability to send PMs built into this blog? I want to ask you a question but don’t want to clutter up the board.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, there isn’t that feature. If each of you want to send me an email, I can “introduce” you off-blog.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. Okay, I just don’t want to clutter it up with PC-speak any more.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
feel free to ask away Afghan – either way.
I dont’ think Brian minds the pc-speak as he’s a IT geek as well.
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they cut Dock for mediocrity (I know, it sounded funny to type in this context), why don’t they at least ask Kelsay to redo his contract, freeing up money this year, is it impossible?
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully because their going to cut him soon
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow right now the poll is 50-50 with 57 votes each
I think we should see what the trade is for Waters myself.
by pasaluki on Mar 2, 2009 1:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I’m reading 33 votes for ‘Draft,’ and 22 votes for a Vet… Huh…
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Refresh that page… :)
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 2, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, the votes are now pouring in- 142 and counting… And yeah, it’s now tied.
by GrantMorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade a 3rd round pick for Waters, if the Chiefs are willing to take it. I think it’s a weak draft for Gs beyond Duke Robinson. If we still needed a C, that would be a different story, because there probably will still be a good one on the board when we pick in Round 3. But I’d much rather have Waters than say, Herman Johnson.
As for Chambers, he should be a back up. Someone is bound to get hurt on the OL, we will need him to fill in down the road.
by Donte's Inferno on Mar 2, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think we need both
We need a veteran, maybe not a tier 1 or 2, but maybe a young tier 3 (Which we may already have in Preston) to back up multiple positions along the line and push Chambers. We also need to draft / sign undrafted players to bolster that depth further. We need to pick up a couple rookies one way or another along both lines every year. Especially DT’s can take years to develop.
by syrbillsfan on Mar 2, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone actually figure out the deal with Chambers yet?
You know since the Bills didn’t announce the re-signing, the NFL didn’t and Graham only reported that they were on the verge.
by twoeightnine on Mar 2, 2009 2:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No I think it was reported somewhere. We signed chambers already
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, no.
It was reported here that he was signed referencing the Graham article which Brian read as re-signed when it fact it just says on the verge. The only other mention of Kirk Chambers and contract on the rest of the entire internet was a later Graham article (6 hours after) stating that his sources said that the deal is done. There’s been no mention by the Bills, the NFL, Chambers… anyone. More paperwork problems?
by twoeightnine on Mar 2, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol – probably more paper work problems.
regardless – he’s not going anywhere now unless some team comes and screws us
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And that would never happen...
Nice knowing you Kirk.
by twoeightnine on Mar 2, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are right – Tim Graham only says that Chambers was on the verge of being re-signed. NFL.com and Rotoworld don’t mention anything about him being re-signed and I couldn’t find anything on bb.com. Maybe he has been or maybe he is still likely to be, but it would seem that we just don’t know for sure right now.
by karovda on Mar 2, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Bills right now have Chambers pegged as a starter at G, is that a vote of confidence for Demitrius Bell going into the season as the primary back-up tackle? If so, Bell must have made one heckuva an impression toward the end of last season.
I’m also now in favor of signing Duke Preston.
I’d go with a rook for depth. My stance is to always draft big early. Get one of those kids who can play C/G. Going into the year, you’ll have Peters, Chambers, Hangartner, Butler, and Walker. It might not be the best that we could imagine, but it’s certainly not the worst either.
by krytime on Mar 2, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good thought on Bell. Who knows what they plan for him or the 3rd T position….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not necessarily a vote of confidence for Bell. If either of the tackles get hurt, Buffalo could always swing Chambers back outside and use a backup other than Bell to play guard.
by kaisertown on Mar 2, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel strongly
Everybody brings up good points here but I strongly beleive that the biggest and most helpful “tool” we can give Trent and the running game is a strong, dominating Offensive line. Outside of WR and QB, it’s pretty difficult for a rookie to come in and dominate on the O-Line. I have been unable to verify the Waters rumours, but if he can be had at a reasonable price—I would do that without hesitation. In a heartbeat. All-Pro guards are not often available. Line him up next to Peters who I am confident will revert to form and now you have something. Chambers is a decent-good swing, back-up, and I believe that Bell may be a star in the making with added bulk up top. We still need a back-up C, but Duke Preston burned his bridges with the Bills by getting into the downfield fight. Has he gotten an offer of even one visit?
It is too early to speculate on the Draft while FA is underway, but I strongly believe that they will take a TE with either #2 or #3, but the other two of the top 3 picks will be defensive disruptors.
Geronimo
by Geronimo on Mar 2, 2009 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like DE as #11 but wouldn’t mind if they went LB there instead – TE in 2 then DE in round 3 or swap the dE and TE and that works for me
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God!!!!
No Pettislow at #11. Sounds like a good plan. DE, DT or LB?, and TE. Do the Bills like Maybin and/or Ron Brace?
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Mar 2, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they like Maybin! If Brown or Orakpo aren’t there at 11, Maybin makes sense. At least he could be a situational pass rusher for a year (Kelsay should be playing on passing downs) and then start in year 2. He’s about the same size as Schobel, so it’s not like he’s too small (for the Cover 2 at least).
- would be too high for Brace, and I’d rather go TE in round 2.
by Donte's Inferno on Mar 2, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, I was thinking Brace in round 2.
Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do
when they come for you?
by Joe P. on Mar 2, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In pads and cold weather, Pettigrew would probably run a 5.3 40.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OOOOOOOOHHHH. Don’t get my hopes up G! I’ve been hoping for defensive disruptors for years now.
I’d be thrilled if we went DE, LB then TE in the draft….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hell yeah K and G – we have our “core” – lets get us some playmakers
Oh. Uh, will you hold my wallet for me while I take the test, please? There's a thousand dollars in there... or maybe there isn't. Know what I mean?
by J2 on Mar 2, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait – Kelsay’s a defensive disruptor. He really hinders the Bills’ ability to get pressure/sacks!
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
how bout LB, TE, and another Front 7 guy? That’s what I want. I want Shawn Nelson, Chase Coffman, Cornelius Ingram, james casey or travis beckum. Jared Cook is Sydney Rice or Troy Williamson waiting to happen. Big time South Carolina Bust. All work out warriors. Just give me one of those 5 TE’s, with Beckum my least favorite, and I could care less what else we do. I tell you though, an off season that landed Laverneus Coles, Brian Waters, Ray Maulaga, James Casey…..I would be uber-pumped up especially if that Aaron Schobel guy can get back to a 10-15 sack level
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Mar 2, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t see Schobel ever touching 10-15 sacks again.
We need a pass rusher Marv, in the worst way.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
but they must see something in kelsay, denny, schobel, ellis, bryan that we don’t
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Mar 2, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
We’ve seen these flaws for the 2 years that Rumblings has been around….why don’t they see it too!?!?!?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i know
but i don’t get it….how long are those 3 guys: kelsay, denny and schobel going to be around for? And all we’ve done is try to develop copeland bryan and draft Chris Ellis???? I have to be missing something
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Mar 2, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows.
But addressing their deficiencies in the way they have is just pathetic….No more undertalented players PLEASE!
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to see someone agrees with me on Cook.
I am a Beckum in the third kind of guy now.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are too many pressing needs...
to draft an offensive lineman high in the draft; this is the only way the Bills would even have a shot of getting a rookie that could take some snaps in ‘09. As the mighty Apache warrior points out, FA is the way to go, but draft a couple of the big ol’boys on the second day. DE, TE, LB or DE, LB, TE should be the draft order. A 30-ish guard with some gas in the tank could hold down the position until pressed by Chambers, Bell or any of the rookie linemen the team acquires this year.
The Bills need to win NOW to avoid a partial dismantling and subsequent rebuilding effort that will certainly follow.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Mar 2, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
completely agree Geronimo
Build the line. All great teams have great lines, and if Buffalo wants to get to that status, they need to address it. I have been a very vocal proponent about running the ball a lot in 2009 becuase I really think they have the makings of a good power running team. I was okay with Dockery and was surprised by his release, but Waters would be a sure-fire upgrade. If the Bills were successful in trading for Waters and Hangartner pans out in the middle, Buffalo could have an extremely good offensive line. If they could establish a strong running game in 2009, it will take a lot of pressure off of Trent and the defense. Now, lets hope if they can get it done!
Question for you Geronimo: Do you know Chambers’ status? Some have reported that he has been re-signed, other’s that it was “close,” but never officially announced. Is he a Bill right now or a free agent? Thanks!
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 3, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a great team needs a great line?
really? so how do you explain pitsburg winning the superbowl then?
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 3, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh had a decent line. Anybody can cherry pick almost anything. How about the Giants in 2007 and the Patriots during their three Super Bowls? Some of the best offensive lines in football.
John I.
by jri111 on Mar 3, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alex Fletcher - G/C from Stanford..........
He can be had in the middle rounds…….He’s MY GUY………..top 3 picks can be LB/TE/DB or whatever.
A person who performs good Karma (deeds) is always held in high esteem
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 2, 2009 3:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
BFADDBE
Bills Fans Against Drafting Defensive Backs Early. Just say no to an early round DB.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 2, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At least this year they wont…I hope.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Mar 2, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is a lineman
A person who performs good Karma (deeds) is always held in high esteem
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 3, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s because you said “top 3 picks can be LB/TE/DB or whatever”
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 4, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah........gotcha......my bad
A person who performs good Karma (deeds) is always held in high esteem
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 4, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stanford....
surprise surprise nocali
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you wanted me real favorite non-stanford player......
It would McCoy the RB from Pitt…..he’s a beast.
A person who performs good Karma (deeds) is always held in high esteem
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 2, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that guy. I’d take him over Beanie Wells any day too.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WIN NOW
Really I dont care who, we get young old it does not matter butt one thing I want to win a super ball this year we keep saying that we want this guy or that guy. IT makes no diference to me if we can make it to the BIH SHOW. E very year is the same thing lets get this or that . win baby win thats all im asking go to space or what ever it takes to get the players we need to win the tome is now not tomorrow not next year or the year after lets youst win noww come on. IM trying to be positive im not complayning just for once baby winn forget about the 90 the 80 etc etc or time is now.
by abayarde on Mar 2, 2009 3:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the blog abayarde!
I am an optimist but don’t start thinking about the Super Bowl just yet.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A winning season would be a major accomplishment. If past is prologue, the Bills will be playing the two toughest divisions in football, in addition to the AFC east. After going 7-9 playing the leagues worst, I would be happy with 9-7 and a whiff of the post-season under those circumstances. This would set us up for the playoffs the following year and a legit SB run the year after that. Now doesn’t that sound optimistic? In early January, talk like this would have been generally regarded as insane. Hope springs eternal in the off-season!
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Mar 2, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Price matters
I care what the price of the vet is. If Waters is in on a relatively cheap contract and can be had for an expendable player and a fourth rounder or less, I say take him. On the other hand, don’t break the bank for him. If we can get Kendall Simmons for a low price, then why not do that and then if we can get a guy in the draft, so much the better. There are times when it is acceptable to break the bank and take big risks. This is not one of them. This is a situation where I think that caution is necessary.
by Hopefulcynic on Mar 2, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
can be had for an expendable player and a fourth rounder or less,
That’s gonna be the problem…
Kendall Simmons for one or two injur-plagued years while drafting his backup/future starter
-or-
Trading a third rounder for Waters two to three years…..
To me, the better deal for this year if Waters because the current administration needs to win now. Long haul, we may be better off signing a second tier guy like Simmons and drafting his replacement/backup in the mid rounds.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about trading for Waters AND drafting his future replacement? I think thats what we should do.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the difference...
You are already using one draft pick to get Waters and now you have to use another on his eventual replacement. It’s OK if it’s a late round guy.
With the SImmons route, you still use one draft pick but it’s on the replacement only.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but Simmons and Waters don’t even compare to each other in present skill level. I’d much rather have Waters
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On that argument, yes
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then don’t. Don’t overpay for him. Now, you are spot on as to what this administration needs to do, but that probably hurts the team long term. I don’t care what Pioli wants or what he can get from other teams, I care about what is good for this team. If Pioli gets a better deal, fine. If he doesn’t and just holds on to Waters, fine. I’m fine with Simmons if he comes cheap.
by Hopefulcynic on Mar 2, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the rest of Waters' contract:
2009: $3.6 million, 2010: $2.9 million, 2011: $3.9 million,
Pretty cheap. 3 years $10M. I wouldn’t be averse to guaranteeing most of that and adding a year or two onto the deal.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 2, 2009 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Waters
Reasonable contract, I hope he wouldn’t want to redo it. But giving up a 3rd rounder for a 32yr old G does not make sense. I would give up a 4th and next years 5th at the most (include Parish if you must), I mean, Matt Cassel (Franchise QB) and Mike Vrabel were BOTH had for a single 2nd rounder. I believe the Chiefs would be willing to move Waters for much less than a 3rd. If they are not, then please move on. Do not give up more than he is worth.
by NorCal BillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If thats all we have to pay him
then how is getting a rookie to start better then trading for a pro-bowler? Any time you have a chance to bring in a pro-bowler, you do so. period.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SO bring in Ray Lewis?
I don’t buy the “anytime” argument. It makes sense in this case, granted, but not ever.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 2, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok let me rephrase
anytime you can reasonably bring in a pro-bowler, you do it. we can bring in Waters for a reasonable price, we can’t do that with Ray Ray, he wants too much money.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since he’s 32, I wouldn’t go beyond one additional year and paying him over $4 mil a season with the hefty guarantees. Of course, it all depends upon the what Pioli wants in return. He’ll want at least one first day draft pick, maybe two.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Mar 2, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pro-Bowler / Schmo-Bowler
Pro Bowls mean nothing to a players future performance, other than setting the bar of previous accomplishments pretty high. But at age 32, where a player at his position has 3-5 more years left in him (note, I didn’t say whether or not those are good or bad years) with no guarantee that he will be able to continue his previous success, giving up a potential future playmake (or bust) at a position of choice and a player of choice seems to me a bad idea for future years. I like the Waters trade idea, but please do not give up a 3rd rounder.
by NorCal BillsFan on Mar 2, 2009 5:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure you can really say that one way or the other is a better strategy. I think you have to look at every possibility individually. Off the top of my head, these would be the best ways to fill the empty G spot in order of my fav to least fav:
Trade a 4th and maybe some late picks or bad players for Waters.
Draft Duke Robinson or Alex Mack in the second round.
Draft a solid rookie in the middle rounds and let them compete with Chambers at RG while Butler plays left guard – I know this isn’t going to be viewed as the best plan by any means, but Buffalo is better served taking a risk here than at other positions and it’s possible that they can find a short term solution in Chambers and a long term solution with a 5th or 6th round pick.
Trade a 3rd round pick for Waters – I’m really not a fan of giving up a pick that high, but if Waters has a couple more good seasons and a couple more useful ones after that still in him, then it’s a solid move.
Draft a solid prospect like Herman Johnson, Kriag Urbik or Andy Levitre in the 3rd or ideally 4th round to compete for a job with Chambers.
Sign a vet like Cooper Carlisle or Pete Kendall.
by kaisertown on Mar 2, 2009 11:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I want both options
I would like to see us trade for Waters and draft Mack/Unger in Rd2
I also found it weird that you did not mention Demetrius Bell at all. He came a long way last year and could easily find his way into the depth chart department.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Mar 3, 2009 9:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
How do you know he came a long way last year?
Did he even see the field?
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 3, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
SB Nation's home for daily Buffalo Bills coverage.
Related FanPosts on Buffalo Rumblings
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
