A survey conducted on behalf of Bills in Toronto organizers suggests the intention to move two regular-season Bills games to the Rogers Centre, starting as early as next year. That would leave Bills fans with only six regular-season dates in Ralph Wilson Stadium each year.
The survey was e-mailed Friday to fans who purchased tickets to last year's game. The survey includes the following passage, which hasn't been edited:
Rogers has been listening to its Bills Fans and may be able to negotiate a new deal which will bring an additional Bills regular-season game to Toronto in each of 2010, 2011, and 2012! This now means that a quarter of the Bills home games could be played in Toronto. This would allow us to issue a new 3-Game Ticket Package for the 2010 games in Toronto. This includes tickets to 2 regular season games and 1 pre-season game, at a lower price per game than previously, for most seats. The average price per game for a variety of seating options is shown below. The total ticket prices for the 3-game pack is also shown.
8 months ago
MattRichWarren
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I have never been nervous about the Bills moving to Toronto.
I still don’t think that would happen. What does bother me is several games moving to Toronto. Did anybody buy tickets to that game and get this e-mail survey? I am curious if there is any more information contained within it.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 21, 2009 8:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Buffalo will have two sports teams in 10 years?
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Mar 21, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he did say that he didn’t think a Bills move to Toronto would happen…
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Mar 21, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in ten years....
wow. The NHL has discussed contracting so I won’t rule out less than one pro team in Buffalo. I really hope that doesn’t happen though. I won’t rule out none, one, or two.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NHL wants the Sabres in Buffalo...
The Sabres’ owners though… well… reagonomics at work ppl.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I won't disagree that the NHL wants them in Buffalo.
But is there enough capital in the NHL to keep it? I don’t see the Sabres being contracted but don’t rule it out.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it depends on your owner
If you have an owner who’s in it for love and passion of the game, like Mark Cuban of the Dallas Mavricks, Mike and Marion Ilitch of the Red Wings or George Gilett Jr of the Canadians, then it’s really not a problem. But if you have an owner who’s simply in it for the money, like the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Shenkarow of the Winnipeg Jets (now Pheonix Cayotees), or Clay Bennett of the Seattle Supersonics (now Oklahoma City Thunder), then yeah your team has a good chance of moving if the revenue isn’t flowing.
The question for the Sabres remains: What kind of owner do they have?
As for the Bills, I’m almost 100% certain that they wont move while owned by Wilson… but after he dies, who knows.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Golisano has more money than he knows what to do with...
It’s why half of Rochester has his name on it. I don’t know if he’s in it for the good of the game or the team but I don’t think he’s only in it for the money.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might be a good replacement for Wilson
I just don’t want Rogers Communications to buy the Bills cause they’ll be in it for the money, and when they wont be able to move the team to Toronto, they’ll move it to LA. Of that I have no doubt.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theres also been talk in Canada about multiple CFL owners getting together to buy the Bills
I know the owners of the BC Lions, Edmonton Eskimoes and Montreal Allouettes were very big on the idea about a year ago, I don’t know what happened to that though. But let me say that if they were to do it, it would be to keep the team in Buffalo and out of Canada. Those guys are truely passionate CFL owners and I have no doubt that they would be just as passionate about the Bills.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's intriguing...
in that I haven’t heard of any real potential buyers. Nobody lining up per se.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for Rogers
and thats the scariest thing I’ve said all day.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
Jim Kelly keeps talking about getting guys together or having a buyer but nothing concrete.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 23, 2009 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
infuriating
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 21, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if that's what it takes to keep them from moving to L.A.
then 6 home games is better than none.
by dzil on Mar 21, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I HATE that you are right about that...
I agree with you, but I worry that someday we will be rationalizing this by saying 4 games are better than none…
by BuffaloWill on Mar 21, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m worried about that too, but I doubt that Goddell, a Buffalo native, will allow that to happen.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No team is "moving" to LA
It will, mark my words be an expansion team placed there.
by Dyl on Mar 22, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong
the jags will move there before the league expands. thats my bet
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think so? I think the current number of NFL teams is a nice fit at 32 and that the league won’t look to expand and mess up how nice their scheduling, division structure and playoffs all work out. 33 or 34 teams just doesn’t work out math-wise.
by kaisertown on Mar 22, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agreed
which is why I think that the Saint, Vikings (both having expireing leases on their stadiums comming up soon, with no plans for an upgrade or a resnging of the lease) or the Jags (poor attendance in a market thats almost in bigger trouble than the Bills) will move to LA before the the league expands. I’m not naming the Bills on that list because if they move at all, it will be to Toronto, and I don’t want that to happen any more than anyone else here.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I told you this would happen!!!!
Not sure if it was here or on RF365, but I said that it would not stop at one game.
Why is 'bra' singular and 'panties' plural?
by Joe P. on Mar 21, 2009 8:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stop posting on RF365 and you'll stop getting confused. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 21, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides Bially is the worse waste of time that you can think of! I miss Connor Byrne
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
by keysh67 on Mar 21, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Bialy is not a good writer.
Why is 'bra' singular and 'panties' plural?
by Joe P. on Mar 21, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He really casts a bad shadow on the rest of us who are writers.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 22, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, I go there less and less
There are some great guys that are still over there, but the platform is terrible and Bialy’s drivel makes me ill!
Why is 'bra' singular and 'panties' plural?
by Joe P. on Mar 21, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From "My Bills are not Canadian" posted on BR
“What to you think will happen when they get a taste for Bills football in Toronto? Do you think they will be satisfied with one game? I think not! They will ask for more Bills home games in Toronto. Even if the Bills don’t uproot and move to Toronto, how long before they want two home games a year, or three, or all?”
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2008/6/18/554189/my-bills-are-not-canadian
Why is 'bra' singular and 'panties' plural?
by Joe P. on Mar 21, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I HIGHLY doubt that they will every get away with all
I agree, the Bills aren’t Canadian. and the NFL is not Canadian for that matter. I can see how the fans in Toronto would ask for all, but there are MAJOR obsticles in the way of that. First Goddell has made it a long term priority of his to keep the Bills in Buffalo, second, there are many Canadian politicians that would activily stop a permanent move of any NFL team to Canada, for fear of what it would do to the CFL.
My guess is the max that Toronto gets is two games per year. Although watch that become a permanent two games per year within the next 5 seasons.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly at this point, one really wonders whether or not any of Goodell’s promises are any good. For Goodell to say that he wants to make it a long term priority to keep the Bills in Buffalo by playing games in Toronto is just as believable as Bud Selig’s fraudulent claim that he wanted to keep the Expos in Montreal by moving 1/4 of their games to Puerto Rico.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
by Calvert on Mar 22, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goodell to say that he wants to make it a long term priority to keep the Bills in Buffalo by playing games in Toronto is just as believable as Bud Selig’s fraudulent claim that he wanted to keep the Expos in Montreal by moving 1/4 of their games to Puerto Rico.
I disagree. For one Selig had already decided that he would move the Expos out of twon before they ever played a game in Puerto Rico. For two, the league (MLB) were the owners of the Expos at the time, which is why they let go of all of their good players; what was the incentive for the league owners to keep a high priced player in Montreal,a team which you owned 1/30th of and knew you’d sell that share, when that same great player could play on the team you legitimitly owned?
The fans in Montreal knew all of that, and thats why they stopped going to the games, I know cause I was one of them. Thats why the expose only had like 3000 fans in attendance for their last 3 seasons, cause they knew that the team was already gone and there was nothing they could do to save it.
The situation in Buffalo is MUCH different. For one we have a great owner. Say what you will about Ralphy, one thing you can’t deny is his desire to keep the Bills in Buffalo at any cost. Plus the league commissioner wants to keep the team in Buffalo, something that is much different than the Selig situation.
Selig is the cockroach of north american professional sports, running the league with reagonomics. Goodell on the otherhand is a good commissioner that legitimatly wants the best for his league and its team, and is not just trying to get an extra buck.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Ultimate goal is two games In Toronto per year, permanently
The Rogers Communications Corporation is one of the bigest possible buyers of the Bills. Goddell has already made it clear that his ultimate intention is to do everything in his power to keep the Bills in Buffalo (many ppl forget that Goddell is a Buffalo native that grew up idolizing the Bills). This tells me that Rogers understands that for the team to stay in Buffalo in the future it will need be financially stability and the extra income of the Toronto games. Ralph Wilson knows that, Roger Goddell knows that and Rogers Corporation knows that.
I think that if it takes the extra income of two regular season games per year being played in Toronto to stop the Bills from moving to Los Angeles, or any other wanting city, then thats what the Bills will need to do. After all, losing two games per year to Toronto is still better then losing the team altogether.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2009 9:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They were talking about playing the Colts game in Toronto, I sure as hell hope that they don’t start sending the premium games to Toronto
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
by keysh67 on Mar 21, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think the Colts game will be there.
If you recall the ‘Phins game had a problem selling out because there was very little draw. Putting a marquee game there helps sell the premium tickets. I wouldn’t mind sending one terrible game (Chiefs) and one marquee game to Toronto if…. if…. if…. it would guarantee the Bills stayed in Buffalo. 80% Buffalo, 20% Toronto is better than 100% L.A. in my book.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 21, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with last year's game wasn't draw power
It was ticket prices. Would you pay 175 dollars for nosebleed seats? thats what they were charging.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should send the Patriots game there
1) Moss vs Owens will be a big draw
2) Playing inside favors us over them late in the season
3) I hate seeing the massacre anyway
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
by keysh67 on Mar 21, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they sure as hell are not going to send the "dogs"!!!!
The whole point of this little experiment is to make money. You don’t do that by giving them games that nobody wants to watch. Mark my words…..MNF will be in Canada by next season!!!!!!
Why is 'bra' singular and 'panties' plural?
by Joe P. on Mar 21, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That will get my blood boiling...
I know this is all speculation at this point but if our premium games start going to Toronto I will see that as a slap in the face to all Bills fans. I have been driving to Buffalo from Syracuse to EVERY home game since 2001 and never batted an eye to renewing my tickets year after year even though the product was mediocre. MNF in Canada wouldn’t be right and I hope you are wrong about this.
by BuffaloWill on Mar 21, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do as well, but
I would guess that if the Bills are at least competitive, they could get two MNF games, one in Canada and one at the Ralf. If not two MNF games, then a prime time night game and one MNF game, alternating the location each year.
Why is 'bra' singular and 'panties' plural?
by Joe P. on Mar 21, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thursday night game in T.O. That will be happening in the near future, IMO.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Mar 22, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MNF will be in Canada by next season!!!!!!
God I hope not.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way !!!!!!
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
by keysh67 on Mar 21, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except, of course, that is exactly what they did.
The game the Toronto fans got were the Dolphins, who were the worst team in the league the previous season. This way the league managed to offend the Toronto fans by giving them a “dog” and offended the Buffalo fans by stripping away the principal rivalry game all at the same time. There was simply no matchup on the schedule that could possibly have been a worse choice from a fan’s standpoint.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
by Calvert on Mar 22, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they won't make that mistake again.
Why is 'bra' singular and 'panties' plural?
by Joe P. on Mar 22, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing one premium and one division game per year
And allthough that is a VERY harsh price, I do believe it will be the price that will need to be paid for the Bills to ultimatly stay in Buffalo.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this latest development does nothing to improve the Bills chances of staying in Buffalo. These are all baby steps. The CFL seems to be falling apart, no? There’s only 8 teams now, right?
If Ralph defects, I will lose a ton of respect for him.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 22, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The CFL seems to be falling apart, no? There’s only 8 teams now, right?
The Cfl is the strongest it’s been in years. And if you don’t take into account the failed american expirement, the CFL has never had more then 9 teams. Plus out of the 8 that are there, 7 of them are over 60 years old and 5 of them over 100 years old, heck the Edmonton Eskimoes have been around since the 1860’s (they started out as a professional rugby team).
The problem with moving the Bills to Toronto is that southern Ontario the fanbase and 2 CFL teams (the Toronto Argonaults and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats). But out of that fanbase I can pretty much garantee that 30% are diehard CFL fans and 70% are just football fans. If the Bills move to Toronto, you just lost the majority of that 70%. That would effectively kill the Hamilton Ti-Cats and the Toronto Argoes, and as a result, the league. The CFL cannot compete with the NFL and the Argoes and Ti-Cats can’t compete with the Bills. Thats why a lot of politicians are thinking of putting in legislature that would stop an NFL team to put a permanent home anywhere in Canada.
So when I say that the Bills will not play more than two games per year in Toronto, I truly believe it. And when I say that the Bills will need the money from those two games, I truly believe that too.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, typical American Football fan. I know nothing about the CFL.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Mar 22, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's ok, very few americans do
so I wont hold it against you ;-)
Canada only has about 12 cities that are large enough to sustain a CFL team, so don’t expect any more teams then that. Heck don’t even expect that. The biggest problem the CFL has is facilities. The reason theres only 8 teams, is that there are only 8 cities that have the sufficiant ficilities to host a proffesional team. But the league is working with cities, Ottawa in particular, in order to develop more facilities and expand the league.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
These “Bills in Toronto” organizers seem pretty confident in that e-mail. Pretty ballsy of them to essentially confirm more games before the deal is done.
Money is money, and considering 2010 might be uncapped, the Bills need money more than ever to remain competitive. I won’t ever say I’m happy giving any games to any other city, but if it keeps the team competitive, I’ll keep my complaints to a dull roar.
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by Brian Galliford on Mar 21, 2009 9:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I sense frustration. Not to pile it on but I am frustrated at this point too. Ralph does not need another game in Toronto just for the money. What a sad situation. We have no idea what the NFL will be after the next CBA. We can only hope that cooler heads will prevail. The salary cap is now an accepted practice and only needs to be tweaked (rookie salaries). The NFL needs to understand that teams like the Bills are an asset to the league. We hold our own in attendance and related sales. Theoretical parity has made this sport acceptable amongst fans. That is good. One game is fine for the Canadian fan base. Two games is pimping. If we are to continue to be the BUFFALO BILLS, then we need an identity. A focus. Come across the bridge you Canuks. We love ya. And your beer.
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Mar 21, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
I agree about the fact that 80% in Buffalo is better than 20% in Toronto, but this sounds like the “Bills in Toronto” organizers are saying this, did they e-mail the fans that live in or around Buffalo? Obviously the Bills in Toronto organizers want more games in Toronto but does this have a good shot of legitimately getting done? Brian I guess you make a good point about the uncapped 2010 season, but I still think we will only see 1 in Toronto, hopefully. But again, as many have stated 20% in Toronto is better than somewhere else.
by billsct11 on Mar 21, 2009 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
25% in Toronto, not 20, but that doesn't matter
My question is can the Bills survive an uncapped year, or beyond for that matter, financially without playing two games in Toronto. My feeling is that in the present financial lanscape, with big business leaving Buffalo and the city getting poorer every day, the Bills will have to play two games in Toronto if they hope to survive. You have to realize that this rescession has not hit Canada nearly as badly as it has the US, i.e. not even 10% as bad as the US. So big business in Toronto is still booming. So with almost no big business left to support the Bills in Buffalo, they need an outside source of cash that will come to Ralph Wilson Stadium and buy those high priced lodges. Realisticly the only (semi)local companies that can afford to buy large amounts of lodges are in Toronto.
So my question is this: can the bills afford not to eventually play two games per year in Toronto?
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 21, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This email only went out to people who bought tickets to the game in Toronto last year according to Tim Graham.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check out the website to read the whole post.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-6-91/Plans-afoot-to-move-more-Bills-games-to-Toronto-.html
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT!
First time, long time here.
I was pretty excited about the Bills signing TO. I live outside of Boston MA, so it’s pretty tough being a Bills fan out here and that signing gave me some ammo to counter my co-workers/friends with.
I almost don’t want to go to work this week because of all the comments that will come my way regarding this potential disaster. Talk about taking the air out of my sail. I never liked the idea of having home games played up in Toronto.
Just my two cents.
by Circling Wagons on Mar 21, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Glad you're here Circling Wagons
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks
I don’t like the idea at all. Tell me what other team plays home games at another stadium? NONE. Tell me what other teams play other home games in a different country? NONE. This is terrible for the economy in Buffalo. Terrible move Ralph – DON’T PULL THE TRIGGER!
The time to deliver is now and if you fail to do so you will no doubt witness the consequences first hand.
by Cutter3636 on Mar 22, 2009 12:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Packers used to play a couple games in Milwaukee
but this is a bit different, methinks
by Dyl on Mar 22, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's exactly the same as this situation.
The Packers, while legendary, are almost as poor as Bills, and were just as likely to move as the Bills were as one point. So they went and played a few games in Milwaukee. This was entirely for fanbase reasons; they needed more fans to come down the Green Bay from Milwaukee in order to be financially stable.
End result, over half of the season ticket holders for Packers games are from Milwaukee and the team, while not rich, is financially stable.
Now heres the kicker 1953 to 1994, the Packers either played 2 or 3 games per year in Milwaukee. So if their strategy worked, why is it so wrong for the Bills to play 2 games per year in Toronto for the next 5 seasons?
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heres the link to back it up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers#Stadium
The Packers played two to three home games each year in Milwaukee’s County Stadium from 1953 to 1994. The Milwaukee games were played due to the large Packers fan base in Milwaukee.
The Packers had a fanbase in Milwaukee that they had to attend to. The Bills have a fansbase in Toronto that they have to attend to in order to survive. I don’t see how it is much different.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the logic and the comparison between the Bills and the days of old Packers. But this e-mail seemed like it was mainly sent out to Bills in Toronto supporters, or Bills fans in Canada. A lot of people have made a good point that the Bills have stayed alive from taxpayers money in Erie and Niagara counties, and the fact that the Bills ticket sales are always good. If the Bills need to play in Toronto I feel that the collective Bills faithful which is one of the best in the NFL is fine with that because it equals the Bills staying intact, but when you get to 2 games away from the rowdiness of the Ralph, something is wrong. I wanna see an e-mail survey of the same sort from the same organization to the Bills from WNY and see the outcome…..with TO now, we are challenging everyone to come into our hostile environment and play us, in as Howard Cosell would say…Orchid Pok New Yawk
Go Bills
by billsct11 on Mar 22, 2009 2:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutly agree
Almost no one wants the Bills to play more than one game in Toronto, even me. I’ve just been playing devil’s advocate because I think the move to playing two games per year in Toronto is all but inevitable, so I just want the Bills to be the winners of the move and not the Toronto planners.
BTW, if the first year is any way to gauge how well the Toronto expirement is going, Ralphy is by far the winner, and not Rogers Communications.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TO impacts jersey sales more than tickets.
And all that money goes to Ralph.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now Peters can get his contract
For all of those who want the Bills to re-sign Peters… this is probably the revenue they need to pull it off. So there you go, you get your overpaid Left Tackle and in exchange they move a home game out of Western New York. Great for Ralph and his bottom-line… bad for the small business owner in Orchard Park and Hamburg. God, I love the fat greedy bastard at Left Tackle… he really earns his paycheck.
DC Chocolate City!
by djc1877 on Mar 22, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ridiculous
For all of those who want the Bills to re-sign Peters… this is probably the revenue they need to pull it off. So there you go, you get your overpaid Left Tackle and in exchange they move a home game out of Western New York.
I don’t think its possible to exaggerate a point more.
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 22, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think its possible to exaggerate a point more.
Maybe, maybe not. But I can’t say I disagree with any of the senitment of what djc1877 said. If the Bills re-sign Peters, he will be an overpaid Left Tackle, and the small businesses in OP and Hamburg do lose out on revenue from one more home game per year (not to mention the fans).
by thefourwinds on Mar 22, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that local businesses lose out
thats undeniable. But would you rather locla businesses lose out or you lose your team altogether? I know it sounds horrible, but it’s also true.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am all for it...
As long as Buffalo still follows a team from Toronto I am fine with it. This gives us the ability to compete with the rest of the NFL when it comes to spending. If I can watch 16 Toronto Buffalos games on my TV and my paper and radio still covers them then why not?
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Mar 22, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how many people share your sentiment TrentHoF
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am just being realistic...
The NFL simply does not belong in a city with a population of 230k, let alone a city as poor as this one.
In a perfect world I want 8 home games here and I want a GM/owner that will spend as much as anyone else. This is not realistic.
If Buffalo shares any connection to an NFL franchise in the year 2018 then we should consider ourselves lucky.
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Mar 22, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about that
Greenbay – 101 000————————————————average attendance: 70,682
Buffalo – 272 000——————————————————average attendance: 71,405(ranked 7th in the league)
New Orleans – 288 000—————————————-average attendance: 70,092
Pitsburg – 312 000————————————————-average attendance: 62,890
Cincy – 332 000——————————————————-average attendance: 64,582
Tampa – 336 000—————————————————-average attendance: 64,511
St-Louis – 355 000————————————————-average attendance: 59,980
Mini – 372 000———————————————————-average attendance: 63,267
Oakland – 397 000————————————————-average attendance: 57,850
KC – 476 000————————————————————average attendance: 74,077
Cleveland – 478 000———————————————-average attendance: 72,778
*Detroit – 917 000—————————————————average attendance: 54,497
Those are all the NFL cities that have a population of under a half million, and most of them are quite sucessfull. Now I know that you’ll say that those teams have fans comming from the outside to buy tickets, but then again most of those teams don’t even come close to the attendance that we do.
My point in all of this is that a city’s population has almost no barring on it’s team financial success: it’s local business and corporate sponsorship that does. Thats what Buffalo needs: not a high population, but higher outside contributions.
Now I will admit that a high population brings in more business, but I honestly think that a simple 40 000 to 50 000 more in population would be sufficiant for that business to be there. Or you do like the Green Bay Packers do and you go to the closest major city (Toronto) and you get their business to come to you. At this point I see that being a lot easier than upping your city’s population, and a lot faster too.
My point is that the NFL belongs in Buffalo, with it’s small population, even if that means that the team is being helped by another city.
by CanadianBillsFan on Mar 22, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no method the league could have used...
…that would infuriate Bills fans more than the “death of a thousand cuts.” They couldn’t possibly be more openly hostile while still attempting to retain the veneer of respectability.
The two groups that are most opposed to the move are Bills fans and Argos fans. Now if the fans in the two cities involved are the plan’s biggest critics, one has to wonder why this is being done and for whose benefit. Certainly not for Buffalo’s or Toronto’s benefit surely. Street and Smith’s article after the Bills-Dolphins game in December basically called the whole “experiment” an abject failure on virtually every level. Now, if the sports business industry’s leading media source is calling the Toronto games a failure, why is the league still ramming the concept down our throats?
I am certain that the Jets and Giants would absolutely love to see the Bills gone so they can get the marketing and merchandising revenues from upstate New York and the league itself is driven by the revenues generated by and for its largest markets, particularly one with the political pull of the NYC metro area. Buffalo’s political pull on a national level is non-existent at best.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
by Calvert on Mar 22, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You take it way too personally...
This is a business.
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Mar 22, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it is a business. The league is thinking of the league’s success overall, not just in one market. That is why the league is beholden to the interests of the large markets because those markets drive the larger portion of the league’s revenues. I’m sure the last Super Bowl matchup was not met with fanfare in the league offices in New York. The markets were simply too small.
The NFL is not unique in this. We see it in every major sport. In hockey, NBC has effectively become the home network of the Rangers and Flyers even when better matchups were available. In baseball, virtually all media attention is on the Yankees and Red Sox. In basketball it was Chicago during the Jordan era when it wasn’t the Lakers. Media sources are stunned and appalled that LeBron James would even consider staying in Cleveland when he could go to the Knicks, just as they are stunned and appalled that Owens is in Buffalo instead of somewhere where media figures want to cover.
When you play in a market like Buffalo, you have to perform five times as well to be considered half as good. The Bills were ranked 7th in attendance last year, despite the Toronto debacle. Where do they have to be ranked before the league and the national media will consider this attractive place to play? Will first be good enough? It wasn’t during the late 80s and early 90s when the Bills actually were in first.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
by Calvert on Mar 22, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The league wont root for Buffalo until 2 million more people move back to the city.
I say that the Bills moving is innevitable. If we can keep a piece of them then I am all for it.
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Mar 22, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This email is not from the league. It's from Rogers Communications.
Don’t get the two confused.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
21st century thinking
How about building a nice $1 billion new stadium overlooking Niagara Falls. And it could have a retractable roof so that if the weather was nice out they could close the roof and turn on giant coolers and fans to simulate winter.
Sort of an anti-stadium.
Or a high-speed rail from NYC to Toronto that stops by Ralph Wilson Stadium. I’m sure its in the Stimulus package somewhere. That could increase the fanbase immensely!
by south123 on Mar 22, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what about an open roof stadium right underneath Niagara Falls?
Hows that for environmental advantage? Trent Edwards would have to spend time learning to be an expert swimmer
"Gooood…..let the apathy take root…" - Ron from NM
by poz on Mar 22, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would make plumbing a lot easier
by south123 on Mar 22, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Floria takes it a step beyojd what I said about two games in TO vs. all 8 in LA
But converting the team into a regional attraction might be the only way to save it. Thus, four games in Toronto is much better than eight games in Los Angeles.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/22/toronto-eyeing-more-bills-games/
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Mar 22, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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