Rumblings Authors Mock, V2.0 - WABillsfan's Take
by Brian Galliford on Apr 23, 2009 12:15 AM EDT
in 2010 NFL Draft
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PrintEd. Note, by Brian Galliford: Our resident left-coaster, WABillsfan, takes center stage in the wee hours of the morning (east coast time) to present the seventh of nine Rumblings Authors Mocks, which you've been reading (perhaps with a bit more anxiety for the weekend each go of it) over the past five days. What does WA think the Buffalo Bills should do this coming weekend? We'll let him explain himself from here. End Note
Trades
We move Roscoe Parrish to the Titans after talks with Kansas City do not go very far, as they wanted too much in conjunction with Roscoe to get OG Brian Waters. We get the No. 130 pick from the Titans in exchange for him; the Titans need an established return man who can also help out Kerry Collins in the passing game.
We then call the Buccaneers and offer them Chris Kelsay for their seventh rounder, just trying to unload the salary he commands. The Bucs still need to add some bodies to reach the salary cap floor, so they do the deal and we get the No. 217 pick.
Draft picks
11, 28, 42, 75, 110, 121, 130, 147, 183, 217, 220
Top Ten (for both mocks)
1-1. Detroit Lions: Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
1-2. St. Louis Rams: Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
1-3. Kansas City Chiefs: B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
1-4. Seattle Seahawks: Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
1-5. Cleveland Browns: Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
1-6. Cincinnati Bengals: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
1-7. Oakland Raiders: Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
1-8. Jacksonville Jaguars: Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
1-9. Green Bay Packers: Everette Brown, DE, Florida State
1-10. San Francisco 49ers: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
Mock One: Bills Take OT Early
1-11: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama. Fat man, meet Bills fans. Now don't become the next Mike Williams.
1-28: Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee. Either Ayers or Michael Johnson is the pick here if they are still around at this point. Clay Matthews is also a possibility, especially if the ends are gone by then.
2-42: Max Unger, G/C, Oregon. We luck into the find of the year, getting ourselves a superior swing player to start immediately at RG (since I think Brad Butler will move to LG in this situation to assist Smith at LT). He can also play C in a pinch too! Langston Walker gets to stay at RT - his normal spot - and we now have Seth McKinney, Kirk Chambers and Demetrius Bell as backups.
3-75: Jason Williams, LB, Western Illinois. Tyrone McKenzie or Marcus Freeman work here, too. McKenzie is my first choice, but I think Williams could be a fine SLB as well. I have a feeling we will not see McKenzie make it to us at this spot, though. I think we end up with Williams, who is a heady player (called all the shots on his team's D), has great sideline-to-sideline speed, can strip the ball, fill in the hole and also can play coverage. I think he might push Keith Ellison to the bench by mid-season if we get him signed and onto the practice field ASAP.
The rest of this mock, as well as a "no-OT-early" scenario, after the jump.
4-110: Cornelius Ingram, TE, Florida. We need someone better to pair up with our boy Derek Fine, and I think Ingram could be it. Yeah, he got hurt last year, and there are some concerns about his knee, but he was showing some serious pass catching ability, has the size to become a good blocker with some tutoring. Otherwise it might end up being Bear Pascoe, which would allow us to go with heavy sets of two TE and our behemoth line for Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch to run behind.
4-121: Lardarius Webb, CB, Nicholls State. Here we get obligatory DB pick so Dick Jauron can get that out of his system. This kid is an interesting person due to his speed (4.35), the fact he has return experience, and his 5 INT last season - three of which he returned for scores. He also ran the ball 9 times for 129 yards and caught a pass for 27, so he can do it all - our own Jack Of All Trades to help the team out. He is a player I would consider grabbing slightly early to insure Bobby April is kept happy.
4-130: The Ghost of Rob Johnson. (Ed. Note, by BG: Good ol' WA re-tooled his mock so many times that he straight up forgot he traded Roscoe Parrish. The Bills passed on the pick all the way until the close of the draft - experts continue to debate whether there was, in fact, a "Mr. Irrelevant" this year.)
5-147: Sammie Lee Hill, DT, Stillman. A very big boy, this small school prospect could be a steal when he gets some tutoring at the pro level and gets to learn from a guy like Marcus Stroud. He had 14 tackles for a loss and 4.5 sacks this past year, so he can get to the QB or RB in the backfield. A project to be sure, but one with a lot of upside for this spot.
6-183: Deon Butler, WR, Penn State. PSU's all-time leading receiver, he has shown some serious wheels recently, but is more of a Josh Reed clone in that the kid will do whatever it takes to move the chains. He has quickness, sure hands, and is tough as nails. A former walk on, this is the type of lunch pail player the Bills like to talk about drafting. We also need to fill Parrish's roster spot in the WR corps (Ed. Note by BG: maybe he didn't forget...), and he would do that.
7-217: Mesphin Forrester, S, Washington. This UW product can lay the lumber and also make plays (1 TFL, 2 INT, 2 PBU, 1 FR, 1 FF). The big issue with him is speed (4.52 in the 40) and some concern about tight hips. But hey, this is the seventh round.
7-220: Nader Abdallah, DT, Ohio State. He was known for being a very good run stopper at OSU and this allows the Bills to fill their quota of Buckeyes players to be drafted each year. Luckily it isn't a DB this time around. His line (19 TT, 3 TFL, 1 SK) isn't very impressive, but he was known for taking up two guys on a regular basis. He can pack some more weight on as his frame is large and he is still young. I see him as a practice squad guy whose job is to get bigger and stronger then contribute a year or two down the line.
Mock Two: No OT Early
1-11: Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee. We now have Kelsay's replacement on hand, but a much more talented version.
1-20: Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State. We trade No. 28 to Detroit along with Nos. 110 and 130. They get shorted a bit on the trade value chart, but they'll take three picks to make it happen.
2-42: Max Unger, G/C, Oregon
3-75: Jason Williams, LB, Western Illinois
4-121: T.J. Lang, OG, Eastern Michigan. Here we get someone who can be a backup for Bell and Unger and let the former college LT duke it out with Unger for the RG spot. He never missed a game and shows good feet. He's not athletic enough to be a NFL LT, but could become a very serviceable RT in a pinch in case we lose Bell and/or Chambers to injury. He plays with a mean streak, and I think he is what the Bills are looking for - big, some athletic ability, and likes to hit people HARD.
5-147: Lardarius Webb, CB, Nicholls State
6-183: Deon Butler, WR, Penn State
7-217: Mesphin Forrester, S, Washington
7-220: Nader Abdallah, DT, Ohio State
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Comments
I much prefer the second draft. T. J. Lang is someone who has not been talked about much (the poor guy wasn’t even invited to the combine) but who would be a terrific choice for the Bills. The only problem is that he is likely to go in the 3rd round, and perhaps even at the end of the 2nd. Likewise, in the first draft I doubt Ingram lasts to round four. Probably round three.
Depends on how the other TEs fall out in the 2nd and 3rd
If Nelson or Casey falls far, then we will find Ingram there. Right now most draft “experts” have him as an early 3 to a late 4 depending on how things go.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
I like #1 better because you only forgot to make one pick there, while you forgot two fourth rounders in your second one!!!
No matter how many of you choose Ayers, I’m not jumping on that bandwagon.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I didn't forget them, I traded them to move up to #20 to get Pettigrew
I think Philly will still consider him alot due to the need for a real TE in their version of the WC offense, and due to the fact that they throw it alot, and occasionally run it. I think some of the top 5 RBs will fall into the 2nd round and Philly will look to move up there.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
Well duh-herp
I guess I didn’t notice that 20 there instead of 28. I don’t think Detroit makes that trade, not enough value for them, IMO.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Depends on the situation and who is available
I would be happy to toss in our 6th round pick to make it square if I needed too
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
In the case of Ayers, its not so much that I want him as I think he is someone the Bills take no matter what
Regardless of how much people like you and I despise Kelsay and other ends of his ilk, the Bills LOVE those types of guys, and so with a bit of OBD insanity, I take Ayers there. These are not so much whom I would take in the draft as much as whom I think the Bills would take in that place and time depending on who was available.
I do hedge my bets with several of the picks, including Ayers noting that Johnson and Matthews could be the pick if Ayers is gone, but OBD I think has a real hankering for him and would discount anyone else there against him.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
You know how much I really hope the Bills don’t draft Ayers?
If we draft Ayers and Chris Kelsay is cut as a result, I won’t be all that happy….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I know, because in many ways we are just replacing one overvalued person with another
With nothing to show for it. Agreed in that Ayers has shown nothing more in my mind, but while I would prefer Brown, Maybin, Johnson, Barwin and Orakpo, I have this sinking feeling we get Ayers.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
If we draft Ayers and Chris Kelsay is cut as a result, I won’t be all that happy….
Wow man. That says a lot….
I know
I don’t like Ayers as a Bill at all. I like him as a potential NFL player, I just don’t like him here.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I would prefer Brown, Maybin, Johnson, Barwin and Orakpo
I would prefer this too, but i dont think they will let us take 5 players with pick #11
Football. Bloody Hell!!
I like Ayers, just not at 11. I think what really makes Ayers a more likely pick than an Everette Brown type is actually the win now mentality. I can understand how the coaches might think that the best group they can put on the field next year is Denney and Ayers at LDE and Schobel and Ellis at RDE. The coaches probably realize that they need Schobel to bounce back and they might as well roll the dice on that happening if they really do think their backs are up against the wall and they need to win 10 games this season.
But what about Chris Kelsay?
Please tell me he’s there somewhere!
Yeah, this win now mentality is really going to impact the draft, IMO. Instead of drafting a high upside player, that may take a year or so to develop, they’ll likely be taking immediate impact players who’s ceiling isn’t as high. I don’t like that, but that’s what happens when you bring back a lame duck coach.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Apr 23, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OMG.....
Am I getting this right? K wants the Bills to keep Chris Kelsay????
Bills fan half way around the world
I think he's being sarcastic....
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Pick 130 for Early OT pick
4th 130- Kory Sheets RB-
The Purdue product is a RB with quick feet and ability to cut through a hole at the line of scrimmage. He also exhibits another gear once in the open field which allows him to outrun alot of defenders. Would be used to along with Webb to replace Roscoe in the return game, would allow us to move both Terrence AND McKelvin off of KR.
He would be a very good change of pace back in our O as we need some speed there. He clocked in at 4.39 in the 40 at the combine, he also showed decent hands out of the backfield at Purdue.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
I think you have to be careful with the roster crunch with this draft. If you take Sheets, are you going to carry four running backs? Does Webb mean you have to carry 6 CBs? Taking a DT in the 5th round gives you 4, what if McCargo has a great camp? Abdallah or McCargo could work their way into making the team keep 5 DTs. What about Butler and the WRs? I guess you traded Roscoe and could cut Jenkins, but I think this draft really limits what Buffalo can do with those last few roster spots.
Its may the best man win quite simply
We are in a win now mode, and I would go with wide open competitions for the roster spots. If a guy can’t prove his worth to the team, he gets traded or cut, simple as that. Jenkins while useful on STs, has no use to us unlike say Webb or Sheets. Omon would be cut immediately if we took Sheets in my world.
I like casting a wide net, and seeing what we catch, we can take 80+ to camp, and then we need to find the 53 best suited to our needs.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
That’s actually my exact point. I think when you draft a 4th RB (Omon becomes #5 in this scenario) in the 4th round, then you basically have to keep 4 RBs. When you draft a 6th CB in the 4th round, then your keeping 6 CBs. If you draft Butler, you have to keep 6 WRs. I think picks like those remove competition from camp. You end up pigeon-holed into keeping certain numbers at certain positions which takes competition away from other positions. If your stuck keeping an extra player at a bunch of positions, it not only eliminates the competition for Jenkins or Huggins or whoever to win a 6th WR spot, or for Omon or Hall to win a 4th RB spot, but it forces you to keep the bare minimum at other positions too. You end up with fewer spots to keep a 4th TE, or a 5th DT or DE. The closer your roster is to being set before OTAs start, the less competition there is.
I wish we hadn’t kept Omon last year and instead placed him on the PS. We could have done it again this year and let him develop into potentially a serviceable backup. Ah well.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Isn't that true for most teams though?
Think about other positions too. If we take a LB in the 4th or so round, where does he fit in compared to the depth we have? What about a second interior OL later in the draft with Butler, Chambers, McKinney, Hangartner, early round pick already in place? What about a second DE pick? And so on…
If we can draft someone who may be an upgrade, great. Competition will be a good thing. We can’t just pass on players who may help us because we have Justin Jenkins as our 6th WR or Reggie Corner as #5 CB. I do agree with the RB part, we aren’t dumping any of those guys, nor do we need to keep a 4th RB.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I wouldn’t have a problem with draft a CB or a WR in the middle rounds. It’s when you take both AND a RB AND draft 2 DTs that you can start to run into some problems. I’ll try and break it down. If you have to keep:
2 QB
1 FB
3 RB
3 TE
8 OL
5 WR
8 DL
6 LB
9 DB
3 ST
that gives you 48 spots with 5 to play around with. So you only get to keep an extra player at 5 positions. If we figure that the Bills are going to keep Hamdan then we have 4 spots. If we draft a 4th RB and a 6th CB in the 4th round then we can only keep an extra player at 2 postions. When you only have two spots to decide between a 6th WR (Butler, Jenkins or Huggins), 5th DT (McCargo or Abdallah), 5th DE (2 of Kelsay, Bryan, Ellis), 4th TE (Stupar), 7th LB (Costanzo or Bowen) or a 9th OL or even just any undrafted player at any position you are really limited in the choices you can make. That roster crunch is a serious factor when putting a draft together.
Some of those guys still have practice squad eligibility...
just sayin’
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but that’s not really the point. All I’m trying to say is that you have to be careful how many positions you are forcing yourself to keep an extra player at before OTAs even start. Because if you’re not, then you don’t end up with the best 53 man roster that you can.
And you also don’t want to be one of those teams that cut their 4th or 5th round pick because cut day rolls around and you can’t afford to keep 6 CBs like you thought you could on draft day.
Well the Bills signed Will James last offseason...
supposedly to challenge for a starting spot… then went out and drafted McKelvin and cut James. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that we cut our late draft picks. Geronimo said it the other day. Are 9 draft picks going to make the roster? No. SO why not use some of those picks to trade back up from 28 or back into the second round for instance.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be OK with Buffalo using some picks to make a move or two. I’d also be OK with them using a mid round pick to grab a CB, WR or RB or to draft two DEs or TEs. The problem for me is if they try to do too many of those. If they try and draft a CB, WR AND RB before round 7, then they put themselves in quite a roster pinch. That’s all I’m really saying.
It was meant as a small criticism. If we made one simple change and took a safety in the 4th or 5th round instead of the RB or CB and then took that RB or CB as a flier in the 7th round, I think it would set up the training camp battles in a way that makes it much more likely to get the best 53 man roster. The best way to set up a roster for training camp is to either draft a rookie with the knowledge that they won’t have to compete with anyone who is that good to make the team OR to have them competing with vet who you could afford to cut. If this team were to draft 2 DEs and let a rookie LDE compete with Kelsay and draft two TEs and let them compete with Schouman and that safety to compete with Wilson, Simpson and Wendling then you can keep every rookie is isn’t god awful and keep the vets who performed the best. You create flexibility that way.
To try and wrap that up:
You should set up your roster so that your rookies are competing with vets, but in situations where they won’t get cut. Essentially you draft so that the crappy vets on the team are the ones battling for roster spots.
So I assume you do not like my 7th round S pick, because I choose
a CB who can play STs along with a 4th RB who can as well, both of whom are very good KRs and the CB is a good PR as well. This way McGee, McKelvin AND Freddy stay healthy.
I take a RB in the 1st draft for a simple reason, Freddy and ML WILL get hurt, possibly at the same time, OR Freddy goes down with something while ML is suspended, we need that extra pair of legs, whether on the roster or the PS is debateable, but with Fred and ML’s running styles, they are going to take licks, and need someone else other than Rhodes at some point to spell them.
Honestly, I would pass up the WR but I think getting Josh Reed’s replacement now, before he goes in 2 years is a smart move.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
Why are we worried about Lynch and Jackson getting hurt? They have been able to split the time for two straight years now without any help from a 3rd RB and now they have Dominic Rhodes to play that 3rd RB role that they havn’t even needed. I’m not sure how they could be much more set at RB. Was there a single team in the NFL last year who kept 4 RBs on the 53 man roster? We could always pull Hall off the PS to be an insurance 3rd RB too.
It’s not that I don’t like any of your picks specifically (other than the RB who I actually wouldn’t mind all that much). If Buffalo grabs a CB with upside on defense and special teams in the fifth or a WR with upside like Butler in the 6th, I won’t complain one bit. My problem is when you try and do all of that. To go back to my list, just keeping the bare minimum at every spot only leaves you 5 positions to add an extra player to. So if you draft too many players who will force you to pencil in an extra player at a postion before OTAs even start, it limits your possibilities when setting up the final roster.
And I would never criticize a 7th round pick who isn’t named CJ Ah You.
What about Kennard Cox
or even better….Aaron Merz?!?!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I think I’d prefer a combo of #1 and #2. Kelsay would have to be kept, and DE addressed in 2010:
1-11: Andre Smith
1-20: Brandon Pettigrew
2-42: Max Unger
3-75: Jason Williams (Much prefer Mckenzie, but I agree he won’t be here)
4-121: T.J. Lang
5-147: Sammie Lee Hill
6-183: Traded because Kurupt is right and Detroit isn’t giving up that spot for cheap
7-220: Traded because Detroit isn’t giving up #20 for cheap, blah blah blah
We can’t keep putting off addressing the DE position!!!!! AHHHHHH!!!! It’s been such a major weak spot for so many years, and until it is improved, it will be one of the reasons this team never reaches the next level. You can’t win in the NFL without a pass rush.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yeah...
Here’s where the last 10 Superbowl Champions finished for total sacks in the NFL. Only two exceptions in that span…
2008 Steelers: 2nd in NFL
2007 Giants: 1st in NFL
2006 Colts: 30th in NFL
2005 Steelers: 3rd in NFL (T)
2004 Patriots: 3rd in NFL (T)
2003 Patriots: 6th in NFL
2002 Bucs: 6th in NFL (T)
2001 Patriots: 13th in NFL
2000 Ravens: 22nd in NFL
1999 Rams: 2nd in NFL
Those Ravens got a lot of pressure on QBs though...
and were an all-time defense.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I think their lack of sacks has more to do with their terrible offense, they never blew anyone out. Also, I think the name of the game is pressure, not sacks. I think that Bucs team caused an all time low opponents’ QB rating.
That’s all true, but the Bills don’t get pressure even when they have the lead or in obvious pass downs. How often does the opposing team come out with 4 wide in a 3 andlong situation and Buffalo gives the QB all day?
Haha
That’s the most damning thing, being unable to get any pressure in crucial and obvious pass situations.
I still have nightmares of Brady for years just going through his reads sometimes two or three times before unloading the pass a good 5-6 seconds after the snap without even coming close to being hit.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yeah, I used those stats as a basis for a really long post I made back in January. You can win enough to make the playoffs, but if you ever want to be a SB contender, you need pass rushers.
The Colts shouldn’t really be considered an exception. It was an exception they finished so far down on sack totals that year, but with Freeney and Mathis, they had two very good/great rush options.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I know, K, I know. Believe me, if there was a dominant pass rusher in this draft, I’d be arguing we should trade up for him, no matter the cost.
The reality is that OBD has created more holes than they’ve filled this offseason. I don’t believe Bell is NFL-ready, no matter how much he’s “improved”, and I don’t believe Walker can handle the Joey Porters of the league at LT. This team is not one player away from a Super Bowl, and I don’t think you can say they’re one player away from reaching the next level, either.
Trent is young, Marshawn is Young, Lee is hitting his prime years. Buffalo can shore up their OL and TE positions for the next 10 years in this draft, leaving them free to find impact DL players next year. I believe that’s the fastest way to turn the team around, rather than drafting a situational or project DE out of an (admittedly SEVERE) need for a pass rush. We already have one of those in Ellis.
good job, but I have a question.
In mock 1 you selected Ayers at 28, and in mock 2 you choose him at 11. So, why didn’t you trade down on mock 2 ? In your scenario, we could get him as well and have another pick.
I know it’s hard to trade down. But, if 1 of top 2 QBs, or top WR are on board we could have a great chance to move down (but I don’t see this happening).
I would do the trade down but to be honest
This was the 6th workup I had of the mock and between work and some things going in my life outside Rumblings, I didn’t want to mess around with figuring out who and where to trade back.
For all of my mocks, picks from the 4th on are mostly the same pool of guys, usually about 10-15 deep, but the top 3 rounds has changed, alot, since the Peters trade and alot of the rumors I’ve been picking up around the web and from people I know in the Seattle area who have some small knowledge of how the Seahawks are approaching the draft. Which doesn’t do us much good, but it does make choosing Sanchez easier to do.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
fine work as always...
Anyone familiar with Sean Weatherspoon OLB out of Mizzou? I’ve heard absolutely squat about his projected draft round. Having parents who went to Mizzou, I was able to see him play quite a bit and from what little I’ve read pertaining to his draft status he might be there in rounds 3-4. Fella’s got size, speed, and he hits like a freight train. I think he’s an instant impact in our D at the SAM spot. I personally like him better than Freeman or some of the other OLB’s rated higher for some odd reason. Long story short, might end up getting a steal on day 2.
Hey may be, I've only heard of him in passing, must admit nothing more than that
I generally tend to lean to picks whom I know of, heard of, or have been touted by actual football people (not Kiper et al). Weatherspoon will probably end up being a steal for a team, but beyond that, I have no more insight than anyone else here on him.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
actually, upon further review...
I thought he declared but it looks like he must be coming back for his senior season. Silly me.
nope nope nope....
not enough OL/DL……..no bueno IMO.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Apr 23, 2009 2:21 AM EDT reply actions
Huh, I have 5 guys in both drafts who are Oline or Dline and I include TEs in that group due to OBD's preference
We trade Parrish, necessitating replacing him at WR, since I would also plan to remove Jenkins to free up a roster spot as well. We get Webb as a 6th CB simply becuase while I LIKE Youbuty, I can’t trust the man to finish a season NOT on the DL.
I take Sheets to replace Omon and Forrester as competition for Ko “Millions” Simpson and Wilson. Ayers would replace Kelsay, Williams to put it bluntly is better than all our LBs except Poz and Mitchell in my opinion. I get Abdullah and/or Sammie Lee hill to beef up our frontline now and in the future as I think Abdullah would need a year or two on the PS, which would conincide, potentially, with Stroud finally falling off enough we would need to replace him.
We got 80 spots to fill for TC people, might as well get as many people in there who want to compete and make a team. Would maybe allow OBD to cut some more dead wood from our roster.
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
Well.......
I dont count TE’s in that…but based on OBD preference I guess you could be right….however Sheets is now not needed with the signing of Rhodes…..
I just feel like every pick (well atleast in the first five rounds) should be used for OL/DL depth (not really feeling the TE being in that part…but I digress)
The trenches is where the Bills are lacking…..and if they dont get atleast 3 ppl for each side of the ball on the lines…..I feel like it could be a wasted draft….(could being the operative word here)
because there is still March and June FA periods……
so we’ll see.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Apr 23, 2009 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions
So we should ignore the gaping hole that is our SLB?
I think OLB along with DE and OT is one of the top 3 things we must fix before anything else in this draft. OG would be a nice thing to fix, but I honestly think we can muddle through with what we got on hand there, or with a 4th or 5th round guy for that matter (Butler anynone?).
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
problem is we've been muddling through with what we got for years now.........
and how has that helped?
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Apr 23, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
OL/DL for every pick in the first 5 rounds? Where are all these guys going to fit in?
Think about it, we have guys that are almost assuredly going to make the roster in:
OL: Walker, Bell, Chambers, Butler, Hangartner, McKinney (6)
DL: Schobel, Stroud, Williams, Denney, Johnson, Ellis (6)
I can’t see us dumping any of those guys. Kelsay and McCargo are on the fence, so they could go either way. Let’s say they go away.
So with the 7 picks we have in the first 5 rounds, we are trying to fill, at most 6 holes? That’s assuming we keep 9 along both lines, which I’m not sure we’ll do.
We need a TE, LB and maybe S too. Can’t use EVERY pick on the lines!!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
you are really okay with the guys we have in there at both lines?
Denny and Sp Johnson could leave.and I’d be fine with that……..
Plus I dont believe our LB position is as weak as you think it is……
I dont think Jauron and co will the first 5 or 6 picks or so on the OL/DL…….I just think thats what they should do.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Apr 23, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course I'm not
but I’m not a decision maker. I’d have to believe Denney and Johnson are 99% locks to make the team. I’d like to upgrade everyone on the DL, other than maybe Stroud, but that’s not going to happen. I was basing my thoughts on what I think the Bills have in mind…
I think our LB is weak, depth is fine though. We don’t have any top flight LB’s, that’s the biggest problem unfortunately.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Love #1
Your first draft is exactly what I’d want them to do. The only change I’d make is to select the best safety on the board with the 121 pick. I’d be so happy if that was our 2009 draft class. I think getting Smith/Unger gives us two stud off. linemen to anchor our left side for years to come. Plus, they can both come in and play immediately. Ayers/Johnson have as much upside (if not more) than Brown, Orakpo and Maybin but can be had later in the round. Ayers/Johnson are better “3 down” players than those other guys. And Ingram could be a HUGE steal in this draft.
My favourite draft
I think we get more for Parrish and the Titans give up #94 for him due to his returning skills but also their desperate lack of WR depth
R1a Everette Brown LE (11) – pass rush is the No1 need. If their QB is flat on his arse we stop both the pass and the run
R1b James Laurinaitis WLB (28)- with both Beatty and Britton gone, by grab a typical Bills player who can be paired with Poz and Mitchell for Buffalo’s ‘Legion of Doom’
R2 Gerald Cadogan LT (42) – the last LT with real left feet movement. Reminds a little of Matt Light and can play left guard so depending on the development of Bell …..
R3a Sherrod Martin FS (75) – with both Simpson and Whitner in trouble …. is Wilson a genuine NFL starter.
R3b Travis Beckum TE (94) – was stronger, quicker and lept higher than Pettigrew. The next Owen Daniels?
R4a Kraig Urbik OG (110) – we need a big ugly road grader and when Walker’s contract comes up, Butler can move outside
R4b Dan Gronkowski TE (121) – replaces Schouman on the roster. We need a scary blocker
R5 Vaughn Martin DT (147) – a raw talent to develop behind Stroud and Williams
R6 Jason Phillips LB (183) – we have too many small undersized guys. Lets get a player who has fallen due to injury but apparently recoving well. We seem to suffer a high number of LB injuries
R7 Drew Willy QB (220) – lets develop our own QB like the Pats did with their No2 Cassell. It could be worth something in subsequent years.
Also, I don’t see how Tennessee would be interested in Roscoe. They just signed Chris Carr to be their return man last offseason and he provides as little on defense as Roscoe does on offense. Carr averaged 28 yards per kick return last season and over 10 yards per punt return. They also have Mark Jones and Chris Davis competing for roster spots.
Carr has already left, he was a one year signing who was picked up already in FA
He has signed with the Ravens, which makes sense as Harbaugh is their coach and knows a good STer when he sees one
If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.
Haha!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I actually wasn’t being sarcastic. A potential playoff team like the Titans would be a good landing spot for a guy like Parrish who could potentially win a close defensive game for you with one big return.
I didn’t think you were, it just seemed funny when I read it.
I think TN or Dallas make a ton of sense, especially Dallas. With so many 2nd day picks and a desperate need for a return man and even WR depth, they make perfect sense to me.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
They could use a WR I guess.
:-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Trade
Does every contributor at BR think trading Parrish is a good idea? I sure don’t. Perhaps its just what you all think the Bills willl do but I think it would be a huge mistake. Is it worth getting a 6th CB, 5th DT, or some other project with upside for the #1 punt returner in the NFL the last 2 years? Yea Leodis can step in but what if he gets injured? Besides, I don’t think Parrish has been given a fair shot to contribute at WR. The Bills have the best return game in the NFL… its the only “best in NFL” position they have. Why mess with it? Am I the only fan who thinks this is a horrible trade scenario?
Something funny happens to the #1 Punt returner – They get smart and they get scared and cease to be effective after a couple of years. Also his value to the Bills is diminishing and if he can be moved for a draft pick, our punt return unit shouldn’t miss a beat.
by syrbillsfan on Apr 23, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a good idea if they get good value for him...
He is nothing more than a 6th WR and will never see the field on offense. He has proven that he can’t perform there. He has been given the chance.
He brings value as a punt returner but they are paying him to contribute on offense too and he can’t do that here. Trade him away for something of value, a 4th rounder or higher only, and they can probably get a 4th DT to replace McCargo, or a Phillip Hunt type DE, or a starting-caliber TE, or someone else who might actually see the field more than 5 times a game.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
How can anyone say that Parrish hasn’t been given a fair shot to contribute as a WR? He’s been the primary slot receiver for over 2 seasons and even started a good chunk of 2007. I can confidently say that he is not a good WR and he never will be. He is useful depth, but nothing more.
I don’t think Buffalo has to trade Parrish. I have a hard time calling it a mistake though. Go scroll through the 4th and 5th rounds of the drafts from a few years ago. Even if only one out of every five players selected in that range end up being good starters and another 1 out of 5 end up being good backups, then trading Parrish isn’t really a bad investment for a team that needs to find impact players if they ever want to win a championship. Parrish is a great punt returner, but how far is that going to take a team with so few players on the roster who are actually better than your average NFL starter?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_nfl_draft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_nfl_draft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_nfl_draft
there are a lot more guys on Buffalo that deserve to be let go before Roscoe. half the depth chart on the Bills wouldnt make another team in the NFL. He at least creates great field position on ST. at least the Bills are going in the right direction this year to get rid of the crap they have acquired over hte past few seasons.
i wouldnt mind seeing what we could get for “Pro Bowl” Schobel, i’d show him the door for a 2nd round pick. i’d take 2 DL and 2 OL in the first two rounds of the draft.
That is a completely bogus statement.
half the depth chart on the Bills wouldnt make another team in the NFL.
I challenge you to write a fanpost with the 32 guys on this roster who couldn’t make another roster. There are career backups on other teams, too, ya know.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
TE:Derek Schouman, Derek Fine- neither are qualiity starters
DE:Chris Kelsay, Ryan Denney- how can you make any type of argument about these two. Denny helps on special teams, awesome i’m glad we have 4 sacks between these guys.
DB: Ko Simpson, George Wilson- again great job on special teams, should we show the higlight reels of these guys doing below average jobs at their positions?
i’m sure every team has guys like us except the Patriots, but guess what i expect more out of the Bills front office is keeping players that will help out on offense and deffense too, not just special teams. if you feel it’s alright to have one sub that can handle all linebacker positions, one lineman that needs to handle all positions, then keep dreaming about going to the playoffs. NFL is about depth, we have none. trying to trade up to get a TE in the first round will prove why we dont win, we waste picks on getting a TE in the first rather than get a TE that will be just as good in the 3rd or 4th round. but now Buffalo lost another pick in the later rounds that could have helped. N.E. has 12 picks this year, if we dont unload Peters we have 7, don’t you see a problem with that. they acquire better depth by getting more draft picks, giving them better options, while we take our minimum and trade up for JP or whoever and lose out on depth. why does New England cut most of their rookies after the 4th round, becasue they have a ton of depth. We do not.
That's not 32 is it now?
You can’t say Fine is a quality starter. The guy I trust for my O Line info, Ron, says Fine was a very capable blocker and I can see he has decent hands. That’s all we need out of that position.
Kelsay and Denney could make other teams roster, too. They may not be starters but Denney showed he is at least capable of filling in.
Ko Simpson and George Wilson are what they are. They are quality backups. You need those players on every team.
Plus, the revered Patriots have backups too. They have guys who rarely see the field and are bad, too. New England misses on just as many draft picks as we do. The main difference between them and us is Tom Brady.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
werent we 0-2 against them without Mr. Brady?
i understand what you are saying, but my entire point is Parrish makes a big difference for us on Special Teams, most of the guys we have as back ups cannot go out there and do a good job. i don’t see the point of losing a difference maker on the team unless you know you get something equal for him. yes we have a few good back ups, but look what happens when we lose out starting OLB for 2 years in a row, not have a 2nd starting DE or a Center who can play. Reed went down last year and we can’t complete on third down, we need a lot more depth for us to make teams respect us.
I don’t see what that has to do with Roscoe though. If you don’t think Buffalo has good enough depth, wouldn’t you want to trade him for a player with potential to excel at an offensive or defensive position?
Don't forget Roscoe went down for a week or two last year...
were we in dire straights then?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh so we would have made the playoffs had Roscoe been healthy for 16 games...
I understand now.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
you know it. those were the two games he would have scores 24 points himself.
i have no idea why i’m trying to argue this stuff, hopefully we trade him for a 7th round pick then everyone is happy.
Nobody has said trade him to get rid of him...
and the Bills won’t trade him for a 7th rounder. They will trade him if they can get a 3rd for him though. They may even take a 4th. They are exploring the concept. Nobody has said it’s a done deal.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i wouldnt be opposed becasue yes we need more picks, i just think he is one guy i would rather keep, but if we can get good value for him then take it, WR has the most depth and we can lose a player there and not be affected. i would rather see Reed goe, i was hoping teams would see something in him b/c he is good at 3 down plays and reliable over the middle. Steve Johnson i beleive could have a great season as the #3 guy.
We noticed no difference when Roscoe was out...
when Reed was out we couldn’t get first downs to save our life. Reed is a very valuable member to this team. Steve Johnson will eventually be that guy I hope but he is not yet.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
a lot more guys that deserve to be let go before Roscoe is much different that “a lot more guys who don’t have the value Roscoe has and won’t get us a pick or two in return”
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Two Offensive Lineman
For some reason I seriously doubt this team will draft 2 O-lineman with their first 3 picks. It just doesn’t seem like the Bills style. Maybe they take one high, and I think they should, but in true Marv fashion they will probably draft one or two in the latter rounds to develop, the way they did it with Butler and Preston if only Preston was a solid player. I could see them trading back into the 2nd round to grab someone they can’t believe slipped that far but other than that scenario I don’t think we will hear 2 offensive lineman’s names called on day one.
we are selecting 3 OL in this draft
that’s my prediction. they like trying to add depth at a depleted position. (CB’s last year, RB the year before that i think)
Trading Parrish
Everyone is talking about trading Parrish!!! Has anyone heard anything from Other teams if they are interested in Parrish????
Not a whole lot of public interest.
But that doesn’t mean there isn’t interest.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 23, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Down
I would rather see the Bills trade down for 4 picks in Rounds 1 and 2 if a partner can be found. Focus on the OL and DL with the first 4 picks.
by Galloping Ghost on Apr 24, 2009 6:59 AM EDT reply actions
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