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2009 NFL Draft Grades: Buffalo Bills Edition

The 2009 NFL Draft is in the books, and the Buffalo Rumblings community - at least to the point that this is published - has given the Buffalo Bills' efforts over the weekend an overwhelming 78% approval rating (while 9% of voters disapprove and 12% are undecided).

I have long believed that handing out grades after a draft is an exercise in futility, because ultimately, we have no idea how each pick is going to pan out.  Ellis Lankster may end up being the best draft pick out of this class; we just don't know yet.  But we do a reasonable amount of research, and far more prudently, we can grade the picks on a philosophical level - so grades aren't completely irrelevant.  Here's how we grade the Buffalo Bills' 2009 NFL Draft efforts - factoring in player, philosophy and using those to form an ultimate grade.

1-11: Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State
Entering draft weekend - and throughout the entire pre-draft process, really - I worried that the Bills would pass on a speed rusher for a more well-rounded, every-down defensive end.  That's the type of athlete they've targeted in the past, and I didn't expect it to change.  I'm happy to report I was wrong.  On paper, Buffalo has its most explosive pass rusher since Bryce Paup.

What makes this pick better is the fact that they took the right player.  No DE displayed a quicker first step in college or at the Combine than Maybin.  I had him rated as the top DE on the board the moment he declared for the draft, and the Bills clearly followed suit, if only at the most critical juncture.  I think he's the best pass rusher in the draft.  The Bills, too, think he's the best pass rusher in the draft, and his upside is tremendous.  There is risk here, and he won't play every down, but this is still a perfect fit.  Philosophy grade: A; Player grade: A-

1-28: Eric Wood, OG, Louisville
Considering the fact that Buffalo went into the draft with only three set starters on the offensive line, this pick made a ton of sense both philosophically and player-wise.  Wood was Buffalo's top-rated interior lineman, and he was close to the top on my board as well.  He was one of four or five guys that I viewed as immediate starters at this level, and it was plainly obvious that the Bills needed one of those.  They may have had to reach a touch to get him, but blame the Cleveland Browns for that - they took California C Alex Mack at No. 21 overall.  Buffalo couldn't wait on Wood once that happened, so they're not docked as many points overall.  Philosophy grade: A-; Player grade: B+

2-42: Jairus Byrd, FS, Oregon
My eyebrows raised a bit on this one, as I'm certain yours did as well.  It was pretty apparent, however, that the Bills were going to add a DB early on in the draft process, and it was nice to see them target a safety prospect with ball skills.  Byrd's ball-hawking tendencies alone make him a smart investment, but like Maybin, he's probably not an immediate starter.  I like the fact that they targeted a playmaker here; I do believe there were some better safety prospects available, but I'm not complaining about the Byrd selection in the least.  Philosophy grade: B; Player grade: B-

2-51: Andy Levitre, OG, Oregon State
Remember when I said that I thought four to five interior linemen in this draft class could start right away?  Levitre was one of them.  He was also the third-rated interior line prospect on Buffalo's board (behind Wood and Seahawks C Max Unger), and at this point in the draft, he was another supremely intelligent investment.  Don't be concerned with the college tackle's position switch - Levitre was born to play guard.  He's a Wood clone.  With this pick and the subsequent shift of Brad Butler to RT, Buffalo had quickly re-assembled its offensive line after the trade of OT Jason Peters a week prior to the draft.  Philosophy grade: A; Player grade: B

4-121: Shawn Nelson, TE, Southern Miss
I'll say it now, folks - Shawn Nelson is the steal of the 2009 Draft.  Name any other pick by any other team that you think is a steal, and I'll tell you why Nelson is a better pick.  At one point in time, Nelson was considered a fringe first-round pick.  A day before the draft, most experts would have told you he'd be a second-round pick; third at the worst.  This kid is tall, super fast and athletic, and outside of Bengals TE Chase Coffman has the best set of hands on any receiving prospect in this draft class.  Buffalo actually considered trading up on day two for this guy.  His athleticism, ability to stretch the field, and run-after-catch abilities are going to be an excellent help for QB Trent Edwards - who got a lot of help in this year's draft, by the way.  Philosophy grade: A-; Player grade: A-

5-147: Nic Harris, OLB, Oklahoma
I have no issues with Buffalo taking a productive, athletic collegian and asking him to make a position switch.  Harris will be able to handle it.  We've crossed the threshold from instant impact to depth here, though; Harris will make the team and contribute as a special teams player (where he actually has a good deal of potential), but he's not an answer to the team's question at starting SAM linebacker.  Philosophy grade: B; Player grade: C+

6-183: Cary Harris, DB, USC
You knew that Buffalo would take a pure corner at some point, and Harris was actually one of the late-round sleepers I'd circled because of his physicality and zone-based skill set.  He has the potential to start in this league, folks.  He'll never be a spectacular player or a Pro Bowl performer, nor will he make many big plays, but he's smart, tough, defends the run well, and will hold his own.  He can also play some safety if need be, and of course, he'll play special teams.  Philosophy grade: B-; Player grade: C+

7-220: Ellis Lankster, DB, West Virginia
Was I surprised that the Bills ended the draft by taking two defensive backs?  Not really.  Lankster is a fringe prospect, but he has a bit of playmaking potential and, like Harris, has a zone-based skill set.  I'll defer to the Bills on this one - they've drafted relatively well in the late rounds over the past three years.  It would have been nice if they'd had a player at a different position graded out as highly as another DB, however.  Philosophy grade: C+; Player grade: D

Total (weighted) philosophical grade: B+
Total (weighted) player grade: B
Overall 2009 Buffalo Bills Draft Grade: B+

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yeah

draft grades are worthless but there are so many things to like about how Dick Juaron and company are trying their damdest to improve this roster and change it to get better. These types of OL are a breath of fresh air IMO. I’m not sold on Levitre cuz I don’t know as much about him but they had a solid plan to get Wood and levitre, reshuffle the OL. It seems viable on paper, but I bet the coaching staff is nervous as hell to see what these guys look like day 1 in mini camps. I mean every guy on our OL will have a new position!

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Apr 27, 2009 8:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One concerning thing is that the line could be potentially downgraded at 4 positions on the line (all but C).

But it’s also potentially much better overall too. There’s a wide swing of potential performance from the line this year.

by Pistol on Apr 27, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We have not downgraded at LG.

Wood or Levitre will be better than Dockery. I think on the whole, the OL will be better even if we downgraded 3 of the 5 positions there because there will be no weak spots.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most anybody

With a pulse will be better than Dockery was last year.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 27, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch.

Someone grab the fire extinguisher! Dockery just got burned.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, the Redskins did. Dockery AND Mike Williams?!

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 27, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is the "Throw enough crap at a wall, and some of it MUST stick" method of Oline building in action right there!

If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.

by WABillsfan on Apr 27, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If better performance results, is the “downgrade” really a downgrade? All we are downgrading is name recognition and some experience (mostly bad experiences, by the way). I’ll take that any day.

by syrbillsfan on Apr 27, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many times do I have to say it?

The phrase is “fresh of breath air”!!!!

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The phrase is "fresh of breath air"!!!!

agreed – they took linemen. how could we all not be impressed and/or happy?

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I coudl care less about the 6th or 7th round picks – if they contribute excellent – if not – well then who cares really? if we get a steal we can make out like we did with Peters, if not – who cares?

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great summary--fair grade

This was a good Bills draft…and I am also of the thinking that Maybin will find himself playing more on first and second down by November…if he can put on some more weight and strength by the beginning of what will be the toughest four months of his life, then he should be fine. No matter how you slice it, if he has some good moves, and with his obvious speed, he will be in the backfield disrupting every play…I love it.

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Apr 27, 2009 8:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much agree with those grades, though I’m not totally sure I understand the “Player Grade”. You gave Maybin and Nelson each an A-, does that mean they have similar talent levels? Is Nelson that big of a steal?!? I think he may be, but it is a bit odd seeing a 1st rounder and a 4th rounder getting the same ‘grade’.

After stepping back some, I like the first 5 picks, even with Byrd in there. I can’t argue the selection of a playmaker in the secondary, because we sure need some. Maybe Byrd can turn into everything that Donte Whitner isn’t….a turnover creating, good tackling playmaker….I agree that I’d rather have had a better S prospect.

I am not really a fan of drafting players and moving them to a new position. We drafted 4 guys that will switch position in the pros, though the 2 OL doing so shouldn’t be a big deal. I think I’d rather have a guy who proved he could play safety in college than a guy who the team hopes can make the transition. Same with the LB, who I don’t think fits that well. I’m sick of undersized, mostly unathletic LB’s. Hopefully this guy is a better athlete than all of his workout numbers showed because it’s going to be tough for him to succeed with those!

I still have no reason to like the 7th round pick, kid was barely a mediocre college player too. The 6th is ok I suppose.

I hope Nelson ends up being as good as he was hyped up pre-draft. He has the size, athleticism and receiving skills to be a GREAT player. And he’s a willing blocker who just has to keep improving and working at it. I like that. I just wonder why he fell so much. It’s nice to have a prospect such as him at TE, finally.

The Bills considered trading up for Nelson but didn’t want to risk losing their late round CB’s right? Talk about getting lucky w/Nelson then….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 8:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nelson

I’m so stoked up about the pospects of Nelson. So many pass-catching TE’s in this draft but out of all of those guys Nelson showed the most promise as a blocker at the Senior Bowl and the kid has that basketball body that I have been clamoring for for 3 years now. I think Turk Schonert better get to work asafp to find ways to utilize these weapons and TE better eat, sleep and live at OBD. We finally have an offense with some serious weaponry but it means jack if a) we can’t protect TE and b) TE holds the ball for 7 secs against 8 guys dropping into zone!

I love the philosophy of the draft, not the Byrd pick but I can live with it. This draft was a huge success for me BECAUSE of the Shawn Nelson pick. If we dn’t get Nelson, I would be a lot more reserved about this draft

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Apr 27, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

couldnt agree more

i cant believe nelson dropped like he did. to get him in the fourth round is a steal. i love this kids potential.

Bills make me wanna SHOUT!

by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is what I love about these picks, though....
TE holds the ball for 7 secs against 8 guys dropping into zone!

If they drop 8 back we have Lynch, Jackson, and Rhodes coming out of the backfield and he has proven that he is more than willing to dump it off in the Cleveland game last year. If they drop 8 back, get it to your playmakers in space.

Fine, Nelson, and Josh Reed underneath will be a boon. There are no excuses for this offense this year. Not even the offensive line should be a reason we can’t put points on the board. I am so excited about this offense.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not a good thing

When teams dropped 7 and 8 into coverage last year, Trent had very little success. You’ve gotta be able to do more than just dump it off to the RB’s over and over.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To me thats his big weakness right now – risk taking.

He’s got the intelligence – I dont’ care what anyone says – he has the arm – he has the accuracy.

If his confidence were a little higher and he would try to make more throws into tighter windows I think he’s going to be just fine. he also needs to sense the rush better (like Spiderman)

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember that strike to Royal at the end of the Browns game?

He takes calculated chances. He is a safe player and I like that.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He HAD to make that throw

How about earlier in games when we need it then, though the need isn’t as dire?!?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has shown that he can make those throws.

But it’s not a good idea to do that in 8 man coverage. You take what the defense gives you. When you do that enough, they start rushing and blitzing and then you get your big passing plays.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that’s the case, why doesn’t every team put 8 in coverage and force QB’s to just dump it down to RB’s? Other teams and QB’s have shown they are more than capable of succeeding and taking chances against 7/8 man drops. Why can’t Trent?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every team doesn't do it because of what I said...

ultimately it’s unsuccessful if you have a patient QB. You do not have to take big chances to win. It’s not required that Trent has to throw to a guy who is double covered.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well when you have 8 guys covering 4, what are you supposed to do?

If they are going to drop 8, you run the ball up the middle. You dump it off and take little chunks at a time. It’s not sexy but it matriculates the ball down the field.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well it didn’t work last year. You’ve gotta be able to get the ball downfield at some point. Can’t keep dumping it off and expect to put up many points….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right but it's essentially the same as the ball control power running game.

Getting 4 yards a play gets you a first down in three. Keep doing it and you are in the red zone. If they drop 8 into coverage you have to do that…

2 guys on Evans, 2 on Owens, one on Reed, one on the TE, two more floating around in there… what else can you do?

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt Nelson goes underneath

I could see the O running a double TE combo with a single back and 2 WRs. In that situation, you should have Lee run a go route, Nelson a deep post, Owens a middle slant, Fine an out route and Lynch/Freddy/Rhodes into the flat.

If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.

by WABillsfan on Apr 27, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ooey gooey good.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson is clearly going to be one of the Bills’ star players of the next decade, but they were incredibly lucky to get him late in the fourth round. Not great drafting skills to put themselves in that position.

Levitre will be fine, but IMO a lot of the people on this blog are overrating him. Yes, he plays with a mean streak, which is good, but if you look at the scouting reports on him he is repeatedly described as “unathletic” and “an overachiever.” He has limited mobility, does not do that well pulling and trapping, gets overpowered by bull rushers, has trouble with his footwork, etc. To my eye he looks more like a high quality reserve player than a starter, but that’s ok because the first back-up on the interior o-line plays a large percentage of the time due to injuries to the three starters. It’s also true that there were better options available had the Bills waited for their regular third round pick, including Jonathan Luigs (who after a year of strength-building will be a much better G/C than Levitre) and T. J. Lang. The fact that the Bills gave up their initial fourth round pick to draft Levitre makes this another example of mediocre drafting skills.

I am fine with the Jarius Byrd selection, but would not have been had we lost the chance to get a really first-rate TE like Nelson or Cook. But I do puzzle over Nic Harris when Marcus Freeman was still on the board. Maybe he’ll be ok, but the reports on him indicate a lot of basic limitations and suggest he will not be as good in the end as Keith Ellison. And why they took a poor quality CB in the seventh round (who will almost certainly get cut in August if he doesn’t emerge as the top punt returner) when Zack Follett was on the board is beyond me. If you are going to take a chance on someone at that point, why not an OLB?

Getting Shawn Nelson when they did saved the Bills’ bacon in this draft, but they also missed a number of opportunities for which they should be held accountable. It is still too early by far to assign them a final grade, but for now I would give them an early provisional grade of B-/C+ and I continue to wonder if Modrak has the ability to be their main draft coordinator.

by Macktruck on Apr 27, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because you are down on Levitre doesn't mean other people weren't up on him.

There’s a reason Luigs and Lang weren’t drafted until the 4th round.

You can say it was luck all you want but they got great value guys when they picked by sticking to the board they put together. You can wonder about Modrak. That is fine. But the fact is we got 2-4 opening days starters and 5 guys who will contribute on this team this year. Ask the Cowboys or a host of other teams who can’t say the same thing what it would be like to get that production.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We got a number of potential starters mainly because we had several positions that were essentially vacant or filled with inferior players (LG, TE, DE, etc.) Dallas didn’t get that many starters, but at the same time they don’t need them as badly as we do. At their level what they need is depth in order to make a Superbowl run, and that’s what they focused on.

by Macktruck on Apr 27, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't tell me there wasn't a spot on their starting roster that they couldn't upgrade.

They went 9-7 last year.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and lost their #1 WR.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt, so because other teams totally screwed up their draft, it makes it OK for the Bills to screw up moderately????????

"Get ready for the pain women…the pain train is coming Whooo Whooooo !!!!!" – Terry Tate Office Linebacker

by Joe P. on Apr 27, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not what I am saying.

I’m saying every team in the second round passer on these guys. Every team in the 4th round passed on these guys. It’s not like one team screwed up and missed him. I’m willing to bet that guys like Parcells, Belichek, Polian, etc. know more about a player than we do. THey all passed on them in the second and third so it means he wasn’t that good.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, how can Levitre get overpowered and be criticized for a lack of mobility, but you talk about Luigs getting a chance to go through a strength program to get stronger? Can’t Levitre get stronger too? Can’t he improve his footwork and technique? Don’t sell him short and talk up some other guy having the ability to improve, because that’s just not fair. We have to see how he plays out, but his demeanor along with some improved coaching gives him the chance to be a great interior lineman for us.

I do believe Levitre needs to get a lot stronger, actually. He was towards the bottom of the list at the combine for most reps at 225. I’m not as concerned about his lack of mobility and footwork, because as an interior player it won’t be as problematic as it would be for a tackle. Obviously, improvement is needed, but he’s still plenty good enough already. Let’s let him play before calling it an example of mediocre drafting skills. I tend to agree about the mediocre drafting skills of this team, but I wouldn’t consider this an example until we see him pass or fail the challenges of the NFL.

I am also puzzled about Harris over a guy like Freeman. But then again, I was never high on Freeman. I would probably have taken Freeman though, he’s just a better athlete and more experienced. Consider their Combine results:

40 time: Freeman 4.74, Harris 4.85
225 reps: Freeman 30, Harris 15
Vertical: Freeman 37", Harris 31.5"
Broad Jump: Freeman 9’5", Harris 9’1"
3 cone: Freeman 6.98s, Harris 7.07s
20 yard shuttle: Freeman 4.12s (best LB at combine), Harris 4.38s

Not only did Freeman outperform him in every area, but he pretty much destroyed him in all of them. With his experience and superior athleticism, I’m not sure why they viewed Harris as a better prospect. They must feel Harris’ ability to drop and cover was so much better that they had to overlook everything else. I just don’t know. Oh well, I don’t think either amounts to a great LB anyhow. I just hope Harris becomes a quality player for us, and starts over Ellison ASAP.

100% agree w/Follett. His workout numbers were right there with Freeman’s, other than the 3-cone drill, so it’s not like he was some slow, unathletic player. His ability to blitz and get after the QB should have been appealing to this team, more so than a 7th CB.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Levitre will be a better player once he gets stronger and is coached up, but that won’t change his basic lack of athletic talent. It matters less at G than at OT for sure, but it’s still nice to have an athletic G who can get to the second level quickly and do some damage. Wood should be able to do that, but Levitre probably not given the fact that he is so slow. Luigs is a very fine athlete and will in time have the strength that will make him an exceptional G, where all Lang needs is some coaching (the talent is there). They may have dropped to the fourth round because they aren’t really NFL-ready, but there is no telling how far down Levitre would have dropped if the Bills hadn’t reached for him. Remember Duke Robinson went in the fifth round. I think it is entirely possible that Levitre would have slid to the fourth.

Couldn’t agree more with Kurupt’s smart argument about Harris vs. Freeman. Let’s hope we are both wrong.

by Macktruck on Apr 27, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oline strength

O-line with bad bench reps means nothing. Drive blocking and preventing the bull rush is all about anchoring the lower body. That comes from the Squat and power cleans. Those two will measure the OLine ability for strength. Its all about lower body strength.

How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?

by Rudy916 on Apr 27, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never mentioned bench reps and in fact I said that I thought that Levitre could build up his upper-body strength to where it needs to be over the next year. My concern about him remains his relative lack of athletic skills (i.e., quickness and speed and agility) that can’t really be improved on or repaired. Again, I’m NOT saying he’s a bad player or necessarily a poor choice. Rather, my point is that there were other interior linemen who I suspect would have been much better after the year of conditioning/coaching to get up to an NFL level. I’m also saying that if the Bills use Levitre wisely it will be as a back-up (a crucial position at interior o-line) rather than as a starter. Butler will always be a much better G than Levitre, and Walker will always be a better RT than Butler.

by Macktruck on Apr 27, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then who is the LT?

You have the play the guys on the team.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

This is illustrative of how OBDs performance evalaution process may differ from some here. Combine results (measurables) are FAR FAR FAR behind the tale of the tape—e.g., production. Harris played 4 years at Oklahoma, at a high level. Freeman has injury issues that concened all—hence the slip.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 27, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

G

if matthews falls to #28 do the Bills take him or Wood?

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Apr 27, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

VERY good question!!!!

MARVelous—that is an excellent question and I do NOT know the answer. Very tough call for them I would think. They really loved Wood—-what would you have done? I am hearing the Patsies would have taken Wood.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 27, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i

think they still would have went with Wood. I think I would have too. I’m not sold on Levitre would have rather seen Unger, but they obviously thought getting Levitre was a top priority and hopefully it works out. I’m pretty scared about this OL just because I know they are all good, but to get them to all gel in 1 off-season will be tough. But with no Jason Peters hold out, no distractions, the roster set except for maybe a transaction here or there

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Apr 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was unaware of Freeman’s injury concerns since he hadn’t missed a game the past 3 years. I know he injured his knee his freshman year and missed the season. I didn’t know about anything else. Plus he was productive, probably more so than Harris, IMO. Oh well, Harris better work out!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like Kurupt I haven’t heard anything about concerns over Freeman’s durability. If OBD was worried about that they haven’t done their scouting correctly. They may be right, though, about Harris’s ability to read plays and antcipate what is going to happen (allowing him to get to the spot where he needs to be on time). That’s also Keith Ellison’s best skill. Harris could turn out to be a bigger and stronger version of Ellison, which would be just what we need, and if that happens he will look like a bargain in the 5th round.

by Macktruck on Apr 27, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not just OBD

Freeman dropped to where he did not just because of OBD—it was a collective 32 team effort doncha think? I heard there wwere injury issues. If not, what would the explanation be?

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 27, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

it’s b/c measurables tend to be overlooked at a position like linebacker where instincts count so very much…

don’t really know anything about either player, but that’s probably what DJ would say

by tiimbitz4786 on Apr 27, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Always great to hear from you. Rec'd.

I liked Chung a lot, too. I thought the Pats took him high but they could afford to do that with their thousands of second rounders. I’m glad they got their top rated guy and two of their second tier guys, especially on the OL.

I think it’s interesting that they view a safety prospect as more physical than our starting LB from last year. I know Harris can lay the wood and am excited about what he brings but what does that say about Ellison? Bowen/Harris/Ellison should be a great camp battle to watch, assuming Hill doesn’t come here.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Geronimo

Glad to hear they may have some interest in Hill. I bet he costs too much though. Worth checking out though, for sure.

Why didn’t they move up for Nelson then? I’d say they are damn lucky he slid to the mid 4th round pick. Phew. Thankfully we got him, but if they had him as their top day 2 target, what held them back from moving up for him? Did they truly believe he would still be available, because I was shocked?!?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d say they are damn lucky he slid to the mid 4th round pick.

You and me both.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks G, nice explaination of the reasoning behind the picks

Questions – Who is Byrd likely to replace at DB? Who is most likely to be released, Simpson? At this point, why deal Roscoe?

"Get ready for the pain women…the pain train is coming Whooo Whooooo !!!!!" – Terry Tate Office Linebacker

by Joe P. on Apr 27, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hill won't get $6mm from Seattle or anyone else now

They made that offer before the Reefer Madness incident and drafting Curry.

The demand for a SAM in the 4-3 is not that great, especially post-draft.

May play into Bills hands then

by freddyjj on Apr 27, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tend to agree

Plus, teams have gone about filling their LB holes. I wonder who else has an opening or is in need of an upgrade like this?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geronimo

Thanks so much for the inside scoop. Quick question, are you hearing the same things with the o-line (i.e. Butler to RT and starting the two rooks at both guards)? And OBD has to be a little concerned with Walker at LT, right?

by CBATL32 on Apr 27, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Geronimo

Great Info like always .Its also nice to what OBD thinking was behind the pick.

by BigUgly on Apr 27, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would have been nice if they’d had a player at a different position graded out as highly as another DB, however.

I think that is the big key. I assume that the scouts and Modrak do the heavy lifting on the grades. I’m sure Jauron has his input, but I am sure he isn’t the one who graded these guys out by himself. Is it just me or does it seem like they value secondary above all other positions for some reason?

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Apr 27, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Grading

Everybody is graded by 1) The area scout, 2) A national cross-checker 3) Modrak 4) A Bills positional coach 5) Either Fewell or Turk depending on position 6) Jauron.

The grades are added and averaged. NO preference is given to position.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 27, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone gets equal say? Interesting.

by Pistol on Apr 27, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO preference is given to position.

Even if the same position (DB) is at the top of their board every time they are on the clock?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems the Bills’ philosophy with DBs is to keep them as long as their asking price is low enough and then let them get their big paydays elsewhere. This works fine with what is demanded of CBs in Cover 2, they just need to keep the pipeline going, which they are doing. This will work out just fine. I just wish there was a more solid option at LB.

by syrbillsfan on Apr 27, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good grades - seem fair

Love the draft – LOVE THIS DRAFT – HEY GUYS – I LOVE THIS DRAFT.

why?

Speed Rusher – Fat guy # 1 – Playmaking Safety – Fat guy #2 – Fast big athletic catching fat guy.

FAT GUYS RULE IN THE FIRST 2 ROUNDS – THEY RULE!!!!!!!!!!

oh btw – feeling much better about our season already. the interior of our line is a strength. gotta give OBD props – gotta give it to them folks.

also with Byrd – I can defiantely see him getting game time early. We started 2 rookies a few years back – I doubt they’ll hesitate to do it again if he shows like he can handle it

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

did I mention....

that I really like the big fat guys we drafted?

to me this is how you build a winning football team. the best big mean intense linemen you can get in the early rounds.

i’m oozing confidence right now – oozing. wilfork you *************** – lets do this thing buddy. I can’t wait for wood to block down on wilfork and pancake block his a**

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Intense

J2, you are intense and I like it.
I couldn’t agree more about our picks. Mean, nasty players are the way to win in the trenches. I wanted to pick Jason Phillips just because his picture looked mean as hell.
Can’t wait to see this O-line take the field against New England

by willgarr15 on Apr 27, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude - I'm like a mad dog in a meat house (thanks tko)

when MY/OUR team finally, yes FINALLY, does something that makes me happy i’m going to be intense.

finally went after a playmaker in Maybin (big boom or bust potential – but has potential to be an elite playmaker – something we haven’t done in a while – me likes)

mean fat guys in the trenches – whats not to like?

playmaking safety – wahts not to like (if it pans out)?

pass catching TE that should have been off the board WAY sooner – whats not to like?

yeah – i’m stoked

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't

get your hopes up. because nobody pancakes Wilfork. He’s rarely blocked either….but it will be fun to watch.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 27, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed G, no one takes out Wilfork, one on one or two on one

Man is like a flabby block of granite on the field.

But it WILL be fun to watch Wood and Hang take him on though!

If the Bills were a drug, I could only hope they were like speed so I could lose some weight as well.

by WABillsfan on Apr 27, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed G, no one takes out Wilfork, one on one or two on one

until they do good sir – until they do

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you call Shawn Nelson a fat guy?!?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol – yes I did ( i know he’s not)

he’s not really a fat guy – but he plays on the line (mostly) – so I consider him a fat guy. even though the guy is a freaking physical specimen – I think we got lucky there.

i’m just excited that they took linemen. could care less about the 2 CB’s they took.

you happy K or no? If Byrd turns out to be a player that can actually make plays then we’d have to be happy there.

but I guess we know for sure that DJ will take at least 3 db’s (s or cb) every year no matter what

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 27, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am happy

Pass rusher #11….FINALLY!!

Improved the OL, though I’m hardly convinced Walker at LT is a smart move. I think we’ll be able to run the ball early and often this year, which should help with that concern.

I’m not so down on the Byrd pick anymore because he’ll be playing Safety. Assuming he can make the transition, he should give us a playmaker in the secondary finally. That’s encouraging.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson is the steal of this draft!

- After the first four picks, I was growing a little concerned that the Bills did not have a TE yet, and Nelson was sitting there. He and Cook from S.C. were the two best pass-catching tight ends in this draft. I love the pick.
- Maybin may not do much his rookie year, but he has an unteachable first step and is compared to Julian Peterson. Give him a few years and he might have to put on some weight, but he could turn into quite a talent.
- I was hoping the Bills would take Clint Sintim at OLB instead of Byrd, but the Giants didn’t let him sit there, proving that Jerry Reese knows how to draft and evaluate still.
- I like both Wood and Levitre, but was somewhat surprised that they didn’t take Britton instead of Levitre. Levitre and Wood have short arms, play with a mean streak, and both are better suited for the interior of the line.
- Keep your eyes on both Harris picks, because Nic Harris name was heard a lot when watching Oklahoma play. He is a good player. And Cary Harris was targeted to go in the 3rd round at one point, plus he has started for USC for 3 years and been productive.
- Dont’ understand why Bills didn’t take a chance and draft Ricky Jean-Francoies in 7th round at DT, since he was MVP or College Bowl game a few years ago. His stock has dropped but he has considerable talent. Antoher DT I like is Pryor from Kentucky, who New England took.
Overall, though, Bills could get at least 5 starters out of this draft.

by BuffaloWhiner on Apr 27, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree on the ricky jean-francoies comment

any reason OBD passed up on him? I thoght he would have been a better 7th round pick than lankster, who i dont even think will make the team. just my opinion.

Bills make me wanna SHOUT!

by silverstreak3k on Apr 27, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That where Levitre and Wood will play...
- I like both Wood and Levitre, but was somewhat surprised that they didn’t take Britton instead of Levitre. Levitre and Wood have short arms, play with a mean streak, and both are better suited for the interior of the line.

At this point, they will be our starting guards this year. butler kicks out to RT. Unless D. Bell has become the answer at LT they will be the interior of our O Line for ten years.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jean-Francois is a soft player. He fell off this season when he wasn’t playing next to Glen Dorsey the whole year.
I agree on Cary Harris. Any player who starts for USC for 3 years is no slouch

by willgarr15 on Apr 27, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pats liked Wood

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/26/draft/2.html

I guess they thought they could wait a little longer to get him and that backfired because they could have selected at their pick instead of trading down.

by Pistol on Apr 27, 2009 9:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If they wanted him 26 was perfect for them.

And then we would have Matthews. Win-win.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nic Harris: My buddy is a crazy Sooner fan and says Harris is his favorite player in the last 5 years. He said the guy hits, plays with a mean streak, and was one of Oklahoma’s best defensive players. He also said when he makes a play he doesn’t do anything stupid and acts like he’s done it before (which is a good sign). Considering he started as a true freshman he has seen a lot of football.

We all talk about Nelson and I am certainly happy with the pick. But at the end of the season we might be saying Harris was the steal of the draft. He seems to be a football player.

by Berg79 on Apr 27, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

From what I have read and heard our first 6 picks all seem to love the game. Therefore, if they bust it would probably be due to talent not some mental issue.

by Berg79 on Apr 27, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's the Anti-Ellison

At least in that he plays mean. You couldn’t find a nicer guy than Ellison, but it’s about time the Bills played with some attitude. The mean kind that is not the Shawn Merriman “Every tackle after a 5 yard gain is like winning the Super Bowl” kind.

by syrbillsfan on Apr 27, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true freshman at Oklahoma is impressive.

Football powers don’t give froshes a chances to start with the talent ahead of him. It’s a good sign.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The disadvantage that my friend said is that he is a tweener (even in college) and his speed while adequate in college was not great. This we already knew. There were many times when OKL used him as a LB in a 8 in the box type thing and when they had some injuries. If anything he could provide depth for us or maybe even be on the field in some nickle packages. The upside on this kid is very high. If he can get to about 240-245 his speed should be fine for a LB. At the very least he adds to the competition.

by Berg79 on Apr 27, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am happy with the draft, though I’m still not positive about the last two, I don’t hate them.

G, or anyone else with knowledge, do you know why Cadogan dropped out of the draft totally? I think he was a third round grade here, I was really surprised that they didn’t take him in the sixth or seventh as a value pick (or even sign him post-draft).

Penn Staters belong at Penn State. The problem with a lot of kids is they just don’t know they are Penn Staters yet.

Noli nothis permittere te terere.

by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Apr 27, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was surprised Cadogan dropped simply because he’s got the feet to play left tackle. He’s a good athlete. But a lot of people question whether he’s truly committed to the game – he’s already an accomplished gospel recording artist, if I’m not mistaken – and he’s very raw technically and needs a year or two in a strength room.

He’s very much a project. Think of him as Demetrius Bell, but with perhaps a touch higher upside.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and perhaps a touch less passion...

as Steve Young was screaming on day….

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve been trying to update them as we go. I am obviously not including all of them, just those that appeared to be of interest to us.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 27, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

looks like

nobody willing to drink the philip hunt kool-aid

by dzil on Apr 27, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which I'm still surprised by....

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bryd pick was a joke

your being a bit bias about some of these picks. You actually like the Bryd pick when E. Brown was somehow still on the board. This Bills could of added another top pass rusher but instead they drafted a backup CB/ Starting FS (I doubt he starts at FS). This was a horrible pick, didn’t fill a hole I would give that pick a F- even if he turns out to be Ed Reed. The pick didn’ fill a hole, and it would of been scary if we drafted Maybin and Brown. By doing this, you increase your chances of actually getting a good pass rusher (one could be a bust) and you replace the old A. Schobel in a couple years. When the Bills are looking for another DE in 2 years, you’ll wish they drafted a guy with that talent in the 2nd round. What a joke that Bryd pick was.

by csc06258 on Apr 27, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wait a sec...

The guy turns out to be a Hall of Fame caliber player and you are down on the pick? That is ridiculous. Do you not see Bryan Scott or Donte Whitner as places we can improve? A lot of teams passed on Brown for some reason… 30 of them. Give the Bills a break on it.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Apr 27, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure you can get away with calling my grade of Byrd biased, then saying you’d hate the pick if Byrd turns into the next Ed Reed. I may be biased, but you’re equally stubborn. And I say that with love, brother… :)

Time will tell. As I mentioned at the top, I think draft grades are stupid – but I couldn’t not this morning.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Apr 27, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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