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Layperson's Line Analysis

1. The line was a weakness and had to be changed. The Bills got rid of weak links Dockery and both centers.

2. Getting rid of Peters does not make you better, but the Bills have to manage the whole and they cannot afford to have anybody be the highest paid at their position, least of all Peters.

 

But is it better? Let's start position by position.

 

LT: Walker (presumably) vs Peters .. worse

LG: Wood vs Dockery .. don't know .. since Dock sucked we'll give the edge to Wood but that's being presumptuous

C: Hangartner vs Fowler/Butler ..  better

RG: Levitre vs Butler .. worse .. can't say Butler was our best lineman and assume a rookie tackle switching to guard is better from the start

RT: Butler vs Walker .. worse/same .. I have faith in Butler and know he's a tackle, but Walker has been a good right tackle. 

So position by position you can't say we're improved, but we all know the line is a unit. Is this "unit" better than last year's?? My position is that it won't be hard to be "as good" and that it's a line that can grow and improve. We have an excellent stable of backs, a smart quarterback, and very experienced receivers. The team did what they had to do with the line and now they have to coach to their strengths and know their weeknesses.

There is way too much talent on this team to be at the bottom of the rankings again this year. What do you all think of the positional comparisons?

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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As you said i don't think you can determine how good our line will by player comparisons. it is a unit and i think this unit as long as the tackles can stick for the entire year will be better..

but if not we have other options as well so i think overall our offensive line is better but the verdict is still out because it’s only paper at this point.. if you have seen wood play there is no question that he is an upgrade over peters, and i think that levitre is very similar to butler as far as play goes, and my end up being a better guard than butler considering butler is more suited for the tackle position anyways.. i think that butler will be just as good as walker maybe even better at tackle, and walker is a slight drop off from peters, but it’s all about how quickly this line can gel and how they perform as a unit.. and as mentioned by others.. these are all hard working blue collar, smart tough nosed football players (w/ maybe the exception of walker in a certain areas).

by Shovel51 on Apr 29, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You cannot look at it that way

the front three (Levitre/Hangman/Wood) is much much better than what we had before. It was hard to compensate for a huge hole up the middle, 2/3s of our interior were quite weak & soft. Now we are strong and mean with all three.

Each edge: In the case of Walker vs Peters, we often left Peters out on an island and used the TE on Walker’s side. Now we will use the Fine next to Walker and not leave him out on an island so much. The left side gave up 11.5 sacks last year, with Walker and the new scheme I think we can be better on the left side.

On the right side, I think Butler will do fine. Actually he probably can handle being left on an island himself so it gives us options to spread our TE out in the slot.

I think a lot of our problems last year were a result of a very very weak interior and the improvements we made on day one will go a long way to making us considerably better than last year, even though we are starting two rookies and 4 out of the 5 are playing new positions.

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Apr 29, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

3 years ago

we were convinced we’d made the guard position stronger by giving Dockery the cash to save the day. He had pro experience and much more reason to believe it would work. Now your assuming rookies are going to do it. I think you’re right, but there’s not as much evidence as when we brought Dockery in.

by MrFurious1 on Apr 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 years ago

we thought we overpaid massively for an average LG, we were wrong

Football. Bloody Hell!!

by gregeng on Apr 29, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, we overpaid massively for a bad LG.

by CanadianBillsFan on Apr 29, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, the interior o-line is much better

It seems to me that keysh67 is making the most important point of all. We got killed last year because we had no C and LG — and no reserve interior linemen to go in when injuries occured. It was hard for Trent to feel he had time to throw when the middle was so shaky, and there’s no question that the soft middle hurt the running game tremendously. Repairing this problem needed to be item #1 on the Bills’ off-season to-do list, and that item is now checked off for sure.

by Macktruck on Apr 29, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll say this...

They’ll have 5 pre-season games to figure it out. Because no matter what we all think in April or May, the NE Patriots will have it figured out come Sept. 7th.

by dabillsr1 on Apr 29, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the NE Patriots will have it figured out come Sept. 7th.

and so shall we

The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.

by J2 on Apr 29, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hangartner is much better center than last year and has the ability to get better.

 This years line will be young but strong and posesses loads of potential as a whole and as individuals.

by billsoferie on Apr 29, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Some Issues

For Center don’t you mean Hangartner vs. Preston/Fowler? also most factors indicate that it would be Levitre playing on the left side as that was his side in college. Which would be too bad because between him and Wood it seems Wood is more ready to start even if it is in a new position. Looking at Levitre’s Senior bowl performance he doesn’t seem ready to start at any position in the NFL until he adds more strenghth. (see this link http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/01/21/senior.bowl.day3/index.html)

In addition to these thoughts are we really ready to sleep on Kirk Chambers the man who took over at both Tackle and guard when Peters was out and Butler was injured. He could be a decent stop gap while they develop Demetrius Bell whom the Bills say will get a shot at the tackle spots and (this is my personal opinion) could be another great development story for the Bills.

Thanks for starting the conversation and analysis.

by MichiganBillsFan84 on Apr 29, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we’ll see Chambers in the starting lineup in week 1. Not sure how Chambers and Butler would be aligned, but I think Levitre will need more time before he’s ready, and will probably come in if there’s an injury.

But that the Bills jumped up to pick him in round 2 I think is an indication they think he should be able to start from day 1.

by Pistol on Apr 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From Buffalo News Mark Gaughn ...

“The Bills drafted Wood 28th overall and have penciled him into the starting left guard spot in their offense.”

Doesn’t mean he’s right. Also, I agree that we shouldn’t forget about Chambers and Bell.

by MrFurious1 on Apr 29, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah

i saw that too. Wood will play Right Guard. I have my doubts about Levitre. I hope to see Bell or Chambers at LG with Butler at RT when we open up 2009

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Apr 29, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I’d rather see Bell or Chambers go for the right tackle position, personally I’m routing for Bell to take the Jason Peters path of getting some right side tackle under his belt and then moving to left tackle.

Also why is everyone down on Brad Butler as the right guard? The right side held up pretty well, most of the pressure in the games I was able to watch seem to come from the left side and Duke Preston whiffing. It seems a little bit of continuity would be nice even if it’s just one guy on the line.

by MichiganBillsFan84 on Apr 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody is down on Butler at RG.

But it’s just moving him to a new position at RT where we have no idea if he will be successful.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on May 4, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wood will play left guard if and only if Levitre isn’t ready to play.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Apr 29, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never said it couldn’t be the case. :)

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Apr 29, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Five Words: Joel Bell is a Paladin!

And what is a Paladin, they-were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne’s court. That gentlemen is your starting Left Tackle. Leave the right side as it is, keep Hangman as center and plug Wood into the LG spot. Pro bowl offensive line men, thanks to the Paladin.

by MichiganBillsFan84 on Apr 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What's the saying? The whole is greater than it's parts?

Even if the individual positions as even or worst at 4 of the 5 positions and the only significant upgrade is centre, I see the line as a whole as being much better then it was last year. Good piece Furious, but I’d like to anylise the individuel players as to how they pertain to the line as a unit. Lets go through the positions as is see them.

LT – Walker For starters I think that calling Walker worst is missleading. I mean sure as far as individual talent, Langston is miles behind Peters, but when you take into account work ethic, consistency and dedication to his task and team, I think Langston is better then Peters. While he wont make as many steller run blocks and probably wont dominate as many DE’s as Peters did, I am fully confident in saying Wlaker will be far more consistant and make far less mistakes then Peters did to. Conclusion: Wash.

LG – Levitre – Granted he’s a rookie and we cant be sure of what he’ll do until we see him play, but he has shown good run blocking skills in college. I’ll still give the run blocking advantage to Dock. But I find it hard to imagine him possibly being worst then Dock on pass blocking, especially when you consider that Levitre was a LT in college. I’ll give that advantage to Levitre. Conclusion: Slight upgrade in Levitre.

C – Hangartner Do I really need to explain why I think Hang is better then Preston or Fowler? I think not. Conclusion: Major upgrade in Hangartner.

RG – Wood To me ther is no way that Wood can be an immidiate upgrade over Butler. Butler was simply one of the best RG’s in the league when he was healthy. Wood does show a lot of promiss though, he’s fast for a guard, he’s strong and plays with a deffinate mean streak. He should be a very capable RG this season and may be as good as Butler is by the end of his second season. Conclusion: Downgrade, Butler was better.

RT – Butler Butler played RT in college and proved to be an excellent RG for Buffalo in the last few seasons, and arguably the Bills best lineman last year. He plays with a mean streak and is great when run blocking, better then Walker is in my eyes. My question is will he pass blocking be up to par with what Walker did at RT? time will tell. Conclusion: Wash.

So in my eyes, as far as what the players bring to the unit, ther is only one position that has been downgraded, and that Wood at RG. As far as the cohesive unit is concerned, this year’s OL is a major upgrade over last years. Not only did we get rid of the excess baggage (Dock, Preston, Fowler), but we also changed the philosophy of this line. We are now strong, fast and MEAN. This line is by far and away better then last years.

by CanadianBillsFan on Apr 29, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i think people are overlooking the possibility that levitre won't start

and that Chambers or Bell will play one of the tackle positions

I think that’s equally as likely…starting 2 rooks inside might not be wise…

by tiimbitz4786 on Apr 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

The knock on Levitre is that he needs to get stronger. I am not sold on having two rookies at guard. As we all know, the switch to the NFL is not easy.

I just do not see our line being better next year. Edge speed rushers are licking their chops. I think we will have a great line in 3 years but to think that we are going to be great next year is very optimistic.

If the rookies play, all lineman will not have played a down with the person to the right or left of them. Continuity plays a huge part in a successful line. I hope you people are right, but I am pretty sure you are the gentlemen suggesting we can win 10 games next year.

by PWilliams on Apr 30, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think some of you are under estimating the impact a rookie lineman can... especially on the inside, it is an even easier transition than at tackle

i think that wood will be the best lineman on our team this year, and i’m not sold on levitre quite yet so chambers may end up being guy the guy as well.. but to say 3 years from now we will have a good line is obsurd.. our line will definately be better on the inside this year, and their shouldn’t be much if any of a downgrade on the outside.. butler will fair just as well as walker, and i can’t imagine walker giving up 11.5 sacks in 13 games this year, and if he doesn then we try someone else over there.. we just have so many options at all of our o-line positions im not worried that we’ll have the best group out there we possibly can, and that group will definately be good enough to win games.

by Shovel51 on Apr 30, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Synergy- the whole is greater than the sum of its parts

The same could be said for a team of reliable, unselfish players.

by Moneyballer23 on Apr 30, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes you have to tell the truth.

Mr. Furious credit to you for calling a spade a spade!

Most people won’t want to hear it, but it IS FAIR to take position by position comparison. The offensive line has been discussed so much I am kind of bored of it now, but suffice to say the loss of our best offensive lineman (Peters) at a premium position (LT) creates a domino affect by shifting players to alternate positions, creating at least a perceived downgrade.

As I have said before (and before and before) I love the interior line additions made during the draft and I think Hangartner wil prove to be a very good addition. But for 2009 do not expect any of these players to be significantly above average NFL starters. If the two rookies can just be average, I would consider that a successful season for them. Let us not forget Hangartner was not the everyday starter in Carolina, his starts were the result of injuries.

"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy

by Jason from OH-IO on Apr 29, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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