Pat White's Impact

by ballinbills1315 on Apr 29, 2009 9:22 PM EDT

So I was reading the comments section and saw that Bryan commented that Pat White terrifys him. Well I got to thinking about the potential use of Pat White. On paper he really does scare the living s*** out of me. Last year the wildcat was effective against New England because they did not know what was coming, but with Ronnie Brown running the QB spot, after that NE game everyone was ready for that so the vast majority of the time it was going to be a run.

Now with White he can do so much. He can hand off to Williams or Brown, throw to two recievers (TE?), and of course he can always take off and run. Not only that but I could see the lateral to Ronnie Brown and then Brown could throw the ball. Man, I am nothing of an offensive guru and I can come up with so many ways the wildcat can beat us (and everyone else). I'll throw this out there...How would you defend the wildcat? Me personally I would consider having 3 DL, 2LB, and 6 DB on the field any time that I saw White on the field, although I just dont know if executed correctly you could ever stop the wildcat for an entire game.

What do you think?

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Again...as someone who went to University of Maryland...

a team that had to play Pat White’s WVU every year (and lose every year) I think it’s a good pick…a reach…but I don’t see how that kid won’t help out the wildcat….he’s fast as balls….and he has a better arm than most people think

by tiimbitz4786 on Apr 29, 2009 9:55 PM EDT reply actions

I feel you...

As someone who went to Syracuse, we’ve been annual losers to West Virginia since 2001 (that’s seven straight…but who’s counting?). If my memory is right he RAN for around 250 yards on us his sophmore year – put on quite a show. Other than that, he never really dominated us like he did to so many other teams.

This guys got scary talent, but I’m not convinced he will be an impact player in the NFL (I’m not saying he won’t either…I will wait and see). A lot of super-productive college players like him have come out coined as “special” players that will be used in special situations and haven’t done anything. It’s too bad he went to Miami though…I like him and would be rooting him on if he played outside the AFC East.

by BuffaloWill on Apr 29, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions

What year did you graduate?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 30, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Got my undergrad...

From IST in 2002 and am currently about 75% through the masters program at IST. Did you go there? What year?

by BuffaloWill on Apr 30, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions

I did

graduated in 2004. Seems like a decade ago now.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Apr 30, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

The problem with "special players" like Pat White

Is that the NFL as a whole collectively fight imagination, and the coaches seem to worry a lot about what the other NFL guys might think. If the Dolphins run too much wildcat, They’ll be shamed for running a “high school” offense, just like the Falcons a few years ago were tering it up on the ground with an option offense (a “college” offense if you will), and even though it was working well, by the end of the year they were running a conventional pocket passing offense that didn’t work. I don’t know what it is, but even the best NFL coaches don’t really try anything special on the field. They play not to lose. I really don’t understand how bad teams like the Lions and mediocre ones like our very own Bills don’t try something innovative. Instead of saying, “What have I got to lose?” they say “I can’t be blamed for this!”

by syrbillsfan on Apr 30, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions

I think the Falcons' mistake was to listen to the nay sayers

So what if you have a “highschool” or “college” offence? If it works, then it doesn’t matter! I honestly think that it’s only a matter of time before a desperate team tries the college spread in the NFL, and you know what? it might work, simply because NFL deffences aren’t accustome to it.

Have you noticed that these “specialty” offences are used by teams with bollow average to bad offences that have one or two stellar players? What these types of offences allow these teams to do is concentrate and (over)use their strengths and negate their (many) weaknesses as much as possible. An offence like the Falcons’ was weak at WR, so so at RB but strong at the OL and had a great running QB. Why not use a “when in doubt, run” offence? For the Dolphins, their OL is average, their WR’s are speedy but not overly talented, their QB is very stationary but they have strong RB’s. And now with Pat White, they now have a talented (but immobile) QB and a RB and WR that can both throw very well. So what if the Wildcat is a “college” offence, it’s designed exactly for a team like them. I say if it works, use it!

by CanadianBillsFan on Apr 30, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions

All I was saying was that without fail, NFL coaches bow to nay-sayers. Its what they do. There is too much pressure to “not lose” that no one tries anything really extraordinary at this level. Everything different gets labeled as a gimmick or gadget, gets marginalized and goes away.

I am not saying I’m not for change, I’m just saying the NFL is mostly a “Change Free Zone” where anything new either is never attempted or gets squashed as soon as it starts. It is a place where instead of getting the best players and designing a scheme, you follow your 20 year old scheme and try to find the best players to fit it (even if they are less talented). It doesn’t seem to matter whether the scheme works for a team or not, just that it’s not potentially embarrassing. These “new” ideas do work, as long as there is commitment, but that is hard to come by, especially if something doesn’t work immediately.

The Wildcat was actually named after the West Genesee Wildcats, a Syracuse area suburban HS where one of the Miami assistants coached. It actually is a very good plan as you almost always end up with more blockers than defenders at the line of scrimmage. Pat White makes that a scary thing, but only if they commit to enough reps to be effective.

by syrbillsfan on May 1, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it’s the coaches that don’t listen to the nay sayers that are the most successful.

Everything different gets labeled as a gimmick or gadget

If I recall, Bill Cowher won a SB running a Gadget Offence, and because it work other teams tried to replicate it, but they were ridiculed because they weren’t nearly as good at it (where Cowher had a 90% effectiveness in his gadget layers, other teams hovered around 50%).

I honestly hope that the Wildcat gets a lot of reps for the Dolphin’s because i do want to see some creativity for once, and the Pat White drafting makes me think that it will become a more predominant part of their game. Things should get interesting.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 1, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Parcells doesn't care about anyone

He will do what he believes will win football games – period.

There is no way that he takes his foot off the pedal unless it stops working…

That being said, Pat White in a Dolphins jersey is extremely scary!

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on May 2, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

I’ll second that. Parcells doesn’t give a crap what other ppl think.

And Pat White scares me for 3 reasons: 1. He’s as fast and strong as an RB. 2. He can actually catch like a WR. 3. He can chuck the ball 70 yards down the feild.

Ppl are going to have to pay attention who’s at QB, because I see Miami regularly putting both White and Harrington on the feild at the same time and switching them up in the Wildcat.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions

1. He’s as fast and strong as an RB.

I doubt that. Sure, he’s probably as fast, but there’s no way he’s as strong as a RB. He looks like a WR, thin and not that strong. He also weighs under 200 lbs.

2. He can actually catch like a WR.

I don’t think he’s proven this one way or the other. Being able to catch some passes in a workout setting is a lot different than in a game setting.

3. He can chuck the ball 70 yards down the feild.

His arm strength was one of his major question marks. He’s got a weird delivery, which looks to limit his throwing strength. He doesn’t have to throw it 70 yards to be effective, nor do I think he’s capable of throwing it downfield that often.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Ok I’ll admit that those comments came from the one game I saw him play on TV where he did do all those things. But I’m in no way a scout and they did rout their opponant in that game, so I could very well be wrong.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions

All that being said, he is a much more dangerous wildcat option than Ronnie Brown, just went from 40% efficiency to probably 75-80%. Pennington at WR doesn’t scare anyone. With White he could easily line-up anywhere. I believe that they will have many plays with him at QB to set up the quick Wildcat strikes.

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on May 3, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree. I think the Dolphins will legitimatly be a 2 QB team this year. Meaning that we should see both White and Pennington in every game.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 3, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Harrington?

Wow that takes me back. You mean Pennington I assume.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on May 4, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah I ment Pennington. My bad.

by CanadianBillsFan on May 4, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Last Year

all the defenses started to counter the wildcat by going with an all out blitz to stop the Wildcat before it even starts. However that was before there was ever really any passing threat. But I think whenever we see the wildcat we still do this and let Leo and Terrance play man against the recievers (they got the skillz), let B Scott man up against the TE and have Donte cover deep. And if they ever pull that stunt of lining the QB on the outside again we need to take the Freebie and knock him on his can.

"Where else would you rather be than right here, right now?"

by ArenZimm on Apr 29, 2009 9:58 PM EDT reply actions

Should have picked White, not Byrd!

Keep him away from the wildphins! :]

Yes. Agree, good fit. He is small, though. I know he is going to score on the Bills, but he might be in a system that needs more Ronnie Browns and fewer Ted Ginn, Jrs.

Character and Intelligence

by Undee on Apr 29, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Ha.

No way brother. Pat White would be a ghost on this team.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on May 4, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Its funny that sometimes they line the QB up in that formation

The whole point of it is to have 10 blockers available. With ten blockers, even 8 or 9 guys in the box defensively leaves you one blocker short. To put the QB out there is really counter to the point of the Wildcat, and puts him at unnecessary risk. Maybe part of why it stopped working was the Miami coaches didn’t try to change it up, they just put the same vanilla stuff out there over and over, plus they put Pennington out there, great blocker right?

by syrbillsfan on Apr 30, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions

How to defend the Wildcat......knock the snot out of the QB!

Anytime the QB lines up as a WR or takes a hand off like a RB, you can hit them just like you would a WR or RB. Assign Maybin to spy on White and hit him as hard as he can. Most QBs will get tired of that real soon :-)

"Get ready for the pain women…the pain train is coming Whooo Whooooo !!!!!" – Terry Tate Office Linebacker

by Joe P. on Apr 29, 2009 10:19 PM EDT reply actions

With Pat White in the fold, they don’t need to do that anymore…

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 29, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Do what? Line White up as the QB? WR? RB? If White is the problem....hitting him sure seems like the solution :-)

"Get ready for the pain women…the pain train is coming Whooo Whooooo !!!!!" – Terry Tate Office Linebacker

by Joe P. on Apr 29, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions

They don’t need to line Pennington up as a WR – just pull him out of the game altogether and leave White in at QB.
He can run or pass like Ronnie Brown did last year from the wildcat.

One important note – White probably won’t ever have the headset helmet, since only one can be on the field at a time. So either he has one and never is on the field at the same time as Pennington (unlikely), or else he just doesn’t use it unless he goes in for an extended period of time (as a normal QB, not Wildcat).

by Krenn on Apr 29, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions

then it's no longer the wildcat, it's basically a shotgun w/ a double back set...

the w/ pennington on the field it creates another option and diversion for the defense to defend. white could throw it too pennington and then pennington back to white or something.. but i’m not worried about this there is nothing that is unstoppable in the NFL. film study and elite athletes on defense make any offense stoppable.

by Shovel51 on Apr 30, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions

the Wildcat cannot be stop over an entire game

period.

-"I'll weather whatever storm, Make it out without a bruise"
-"Even when winning illogical, losing is still far from optional"
-"Even the greatest gotta suffer sometime"
-"No excuses, No explanations"
-RIP John "Fumbles" Beck, you will be missed

by MiamihastheDolphins.... on Apr 29, 2009 11:09 PM EDT reply actions

then why hasn't it been used more prior to this? It is not a new idea. We have had running QBs in the NFL for years.

"Get ready for the pain women…the pain train is coming Whooo Whooooo !!!!!" – Terry Tate Office Linebacker

by Joe P. on Apr 29, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Let it exist for more than a year before declaring it unstoppable.

Penn Staters belong at Penn State. The problem with a lot of kids is they just don’t know they are Penn Staters yet. -jesse. @ BSD

by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Apr 29, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

haha i was just kidding folks

someone will figure out a way to stop it, whether it be this year, next year or in 5 years…but with the addition of Pat White, it will be a helluva lot harder

by MiamihastheDolphins.... on Apr 29, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions

After that first Pats game

It was pretty much stopped. Sure, they might get 4 or 5 yards, but not many long gainers after that first game.

by syrbillsfan on Apr 30, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Miami......

Averaged 6.3 yards per play w the wildcat last year. Pretty darn good.

by PWilliams on Apr 30, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

They only got 4-5 yards per Wildcat attempt because they didn’t have a guy that could chuck the ball 70 yards down the feild. They have that now in Pat White. They can now not only run a true wildcat, but a very creative one. Things could get interesting.

by CanadianBillsFan on Apr 30, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Define stopped. If you mean not allow any substantial gains, then your definitely right, but if by stopped, you mean that the D doesn’t allow the offense to score any long TDs and holds it to a low yards per play average, then several teams stopped the Wildcat last season. Buffalo did pretty good with it and Baltimore essentially shut it down.

by kaisertown on Apr 30, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

the answer to the wildcat

I always asked my dad growing up why they didn’t run the option at all in the NFL. His answer was always “it just wouldn’t work.” I’m glad the Dolphins wasted a 2nd round pick on a 3rd string QB. I equate the Wildcat Offense to a crazy delivery in baseball (ex. Hideo Nomo when he first came from Japan). After a while teams see it more and adjust. The key to any option style offense is staying in your lanes and not over pursuing. Anytime multiple players can throw the ball it is going to be more difficult to guard, but the key to defending the option is putting the QB on his back every play.

by LIBi on Apr 29, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions

Im torn

I have been a WVU fan since white was a soph. I love this kids ability to make things happen and the will he posses to win. I would have loved to have him just so no one else could, and i most def think he will have an impact at this level but maybe not this year. With that said i hate the fins and i hope they somehow are unable to use his talent.

by billsoferie on Apr 30, 2009 8:48 AM EDT reply actions

White

He looks really good on paper. But until he gets the pads on and plays in the NFL he doesn’t worry me one bit

by Bob on Apr 30, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions

i think he will be someone that you must account for in this formation, and find him whether he's split or behind the center

but i’m not really worried about him, it’s still offense and defense and by the time we play them there will be plenty of tape on how they will use pat white in this offense. i think he is a terrific ahtlete, but there are plenty of terrific athletes in the NFL. I think people are making too much of this, we’ve seen several qb/athletes come into the NFL and mcnabb is probably the only one that i can really think of that has succeeded. the rest havn’t, and he’s not nearly the athlete vick was, and vick was exciting to watch, and probably could have been even more productive in the wildcat. but how many times a game do you expect he’ll be on the field in this type of offense? i can’t imagine anymore than 5-10 times a game, and 10 is probably a stretch.

NFL teams will watch tape like they always do, and it will be stopped, and probably just play a base defense against the wildcat. make sure the ends keep the outside contained and corners and db’s focus on the receivers, if pat white wants to run it make him stay between the tackles. like i said i’m not really that worried about it, if they want pat white running around and getting crushed by NFL defenders he won’t make it through the season anyways.

by Shovel51 on Apr 30, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions