Bills unlikely to address DE early in NFL Draft
Up until recent weeks, most fans of the Buffalo Bills had penciled in the name of a speed-rushing defensive end as the Bills' No. 11 pick in mock drafts everywhere. Coming off of two straight seasons in which the team could not generate a consistent pass rush, the team's fan base was keenly aware of the team's need for new blood at the defensive end position. Now, with OT Jason Peters possibly being traded, the left side of the offensive line in shambles and holes at tight end and linebacker to consider, defensive end has fallen by the wayside a bit in daily conversations.
The big questions: do the Bills perceive their DE situation the same way the fan base does? More importantly, with so many other needs to consider, how likely is it that the Bills draft a DE somewhere within the first three rounds? Judging by the team's preference in player attributes, talent acquisition and how each player is utilized, we may be looking at another April in which the defensive end position isn't addressed early.
"Complete" versus "In Progress"
Entering their fourth draft, the current regime at One Bills Drive over the years has steadfastly shown a preference for drafting well-rounded athletes as opposed to players that have "situational" written all over them, at least in terms of how they relate to the Bills' respective offensive and defensive schemes. The team wants its players to produce on an every-down basis when they get their chance to play. That's why the team values players like Derek Fine over Martin Rucker, as an example.
This isn't intended to be a question over whether that approach is "right" or "wrong" - I'm sure fans will fall down on both sides of that argument. (Side note: I happen to fall on the "wrong" side of that argument.) This is intended to lay a foundation for how the Bills view talent, and in particular soon-to-be rookies - they're looking for "complete package" more than raw talent that can help on a situational basis.
With that in mind, say goodbye to the Aaron Maybins and Shawn Nelsons of the world, and instead get ready to embrace the Robert Ayers and Brandon Pettigrews. Again, agree or disagree with it all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Bills prefer those types of players. They're not drafting a guy to work him into a sub-package - how many times did we clamor for James Hardy near the goal line last year to no avail? They're either drafting a guy to start, or drafting a guy to start eventually. And that player's going to be on the field far more often than he isn't.
Looking at "complete" defensive ends
Buffalo views its top three veteran ends - Aaron Schobel, Chris Kelsay and Ryan Denney - as every-down defenders. (Another side note: if you're anxiously awaiting Kelsay's release, prepare for disappointment.) They are also likely aware that as each player either is or soon will be 30 years old, youth is a problem at the position. Chris Ellis, last year's third-round pick, will be counted on to play a bigger role next season after seeing limited field time and spending a lot of hours in the weight room during 2008.
Let's kill two birds with one stone here - with four ends expected to contribute, the Bills aren't likely to draft more than one end this year; also, considering the depth at the position, the Bills may feel inclined to wait to draft an end, instead concentrating on other needs early in the draft. That philosophy actually makes a degree of sense considering the small number of defensive ends that the Bills would typically prefer.
Tennessee's Robert Ayers and Utah's Paul Kruger will very likely be the two ends that the Bills will have their eye on in this draft class. Georgia Tech's Michael Johnson might get a look as well if the team isn't put off by his uninspiring college production. Heck, LSU's Tyson Jackson might even get a look. The top of the draft class, however, is loaded with 'tweener speed guys - and the pre-draft position rankings only become littered with every-down ends from the third round on (with the exception of those mentioned above). That, coupled with the team's philosophies, screams "the team is passing on DE early," folks. Unless the Bills have a player like Ayers graded higher than an OT, a LB or Brandon Pettigrew, the Bills will pass on DE help in the first round of this year's draft.
Right or Wrong?
I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone that I completely agree with the hypothetical strategy posited above. Most of you that have been around for more than a few days realize that I'm a huge fan of Aaron Maybin and the rest of the speed rushers available this year. I believe firmly that the Bills need a speed-rushing end, or at a bare minimum, a different type of athlete at the position.
But I'm also not going to go off the deep end if, as is fully expected by me (and many of you have expressed similar beliefs, and more will join the bandwagon), the Bills pass on a defensive end early. There are other ways to improve the pass rush, and as long as the DE position isn't completely ignored, I'll probably be satisfied. The team has too many holes for me to complain about the team valuing players differently than I do. There are a lot of ways that the team can get better on the whole, and that includes the team making a trade here or there to get itself into a better position to add talent (hint, hint). In terms of the end position, however, expect the team to go with the status quo until at least a few hours into the second day of this year's draft. And that, folks, is not necessarily a bad thing.
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Comments
Somewhere
Kurupt is crying.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Apr 6, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wanted him to cry after just the headline. Though he probably could written a remarkably similar article himself, because if K is decidedly NOT one thing, it’s delusional.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the headline didn't do it,
then this did: “Another side note: if you’re anxiously awaiting Kelsay’s release, prepare for disappointment.”
LOL.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Apr 6, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It hasn’t happened yet, so I’m not counting on it. Plus, can we really rely on the team that gave him a big contract to actually admit the mistake and cut ties?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’re not going to admit it’s a mistake if they don’t believe it was a mistake, are they?
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was what I was inferring. I think. Mistake to me and many of you, but not to the team…
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you say STEAK??????????
mmmmmmmmmmmmm
Confrontation simply means meeting the truth head on - Coach K
by norcaliangelsfan on Apr 6, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice deuce Bigalow reference.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Apr 6, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the root of the situation. They view him MUCH differently than (probably all of) their fanbase does.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats not funny Fort Worth – shakes head in disappointment
Anyway Kenny, Yellow MegaMan is only $8.95, so maybe your mom can put it on layaway and make payments for a year or two
by J2 on Apr 6, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not until draft day!
I can still hope
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we pass Pettigrew.
yer right about none of the “sexy DE’s” fitting our true needs. gald to see yer off the maybin soapbox.
My thoughts as this moment are either OL or LB in rd1
by BuffaloChip on Apr 6, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
gald to see yer off the maybin soapbox
Was it a soapbox? And I still have him ranked as the top DE in the draft (see below post).
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No soapbox
I can show you soapbox!
If you had a soapbox, then I can’t imagine what I have, or what poz has for Mack.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s kind of like the 20 megaphones Bart Simpson strung together in some episode years ago…
by Ron From NM on Apr 6, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you mean this???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUzfEqq3rpU
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 8, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good times!!!!
If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, what is baby oil made from?
by Joe P. on Apr 8, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Pettigrew is precisely the kind of all-around, highly athletic player that Brian is saying the Bills like to draft. While I agree almost 100% with the main thrust of his article, I would add, though Shawn Nelson also has the potential to be a three-down, in-line TE, at least by his second year, and he might be equally attractive to the Bills given his speed and ability to be a threat down the seam.
by Macktruck on Apr 6, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pettigrew will be our #1 pick
Reason being that he clearly is a 12-20 quality pick, we really need a top notch every down TE that can control the LOS, especially with the Peters thing, getting a big TE to help out in pass protection or run blocking could ease in our next LT. I must admit that I still believe that we’ll get a deal done with Peters.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
by keysh67 on Apr 6, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know the Bills won’t be addressing DE early. I’ve had that hunch for a while, but I can still hope for the best.
What I disagree with is why they want all-around players like that, instead of all-around players and some situational players. I’d rather have a situational pass rusher who may be borderline great at getting after the QB, than another well-rounded DE who’s not good or bad at anything. We already have enough of those players, we need someone who can bring an impact off the edge.
Since we likely won’t be going DE, I kind of hope we go Matthews. At least the team can bring him off the edge in passing situations.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sing it loud
Having an every down guy, to me, means that this player will have an above-average motor, but never be elite at one thing. Having players tailored to do one thing well on the front line would be a great benefit, but only if they have the all-around talent players at LB. That’s where I see a need for this type of player in a 4-3.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which type of player
do you see the need for….one dimensional players that do one thing very well or all-around talents at LB?
Probably both…
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both
In this situation. I think the team lacks the proper players at the correct positions. Their LBs seem to be specialists. Mitchell is an above-average blitzer, but then things go down considerably. Poz seems out of position – which wouldn’t be the case if he was “well-rounded.” Ellison – maybe he’s well-rounded, but he’s not what you’d want to look to in terms of pinnacle at the position.
Then you have the DEs: Schobel is/was great, and might be looked at in an even better light had he essentially not followed in the footsteps of Bruce Smith. He plays all parts of his position well enough, but time is NOT on his side. Kelsay – he’s good against the run and making commercials for dorky laywers, but then he’s a bit of a liability on obvious passing downs. Denney seems adept at knocking passes down and stopping the run, so I see him fitting the mold of what Brian is hinting at here.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelsay makes commercials for lawyers?
Are they ads about suing sports car manufacturers when their cars turn out to drive more like VW Vanagons than Porsche 911s?
by Ron From NM on Apr 6, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Celino and Barnes, the injury attorneys, yada yada.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having an every down guy, to me, means that this player will have an above-average motor, but never be elite at one thing.
Well, it could mean that, and in the case of most Bills players, it does. But when a normal football fan/expert says “every-down player”, they mean that he’s so good that teams will literally never take him off the field.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the skill-set possessed by the “pass rush specialists” in this draft lend themselves to the zone blitzing the Bills like to do? With their speed do you think some of them might be an improvement over our guys dropping back into pass coverage? From what I’ve seen, if anything in particular that’s killed Schobel’s pass rush, it’s those zone blitzes, he looks terrible dropping back.
by syrbillsfan on Apr 6, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good point, but I don’t think it’ll be a major selling point for OBD’s brain trust.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I think dropping DE’s into zone coverage is dumb. Occasionally, you might see it work, but unless you have a freak athlete like a Peppers dropping back, they’re just a liability. I forget the game, and even which DE it was, but remember when the opposing O worked over our DE by sending a RB on a flare over the top of their zone for a big completion? Why even put your D in position for stuff like that to happen?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it Schobel who kept a QB from catching a TD? Yeah, even then he wasn’t in position and the QB just dropped the pass…
by Ron From NM on Apr 6, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t remember that one? I don’t even recall a team throwing to the QB against us….you remember who it was against by any chance?!?
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I was basing it off of the Bills current stable. An every-down RB is something most teams covet. The Bills have trained the jaded fanbase to associate every-down with: not a liability, but not quite good enough to specialize in anything impactful.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another well-rounded DE who’s not good or bad at anything. We already have enough of those players
I’m sure you’re not counting Kelsay there. :) Maybe, like the Bills’ staff says, it’s due to overexposure, but is he good at anything? The only great play I remember was the one from Bills / Cowboys on MNF where he tipped a TD to himself.
by syrbillsfan on Apr 6, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t mention Kelsay, but since you responded to me with a Kelsay comment, I shall respond….haha
I don’t think Kelsay is good at anything other than talking to the media. He’s below average against the run, terrible at play recognition and atrocious at rushing the passer. Maybe he’d be a good ST’s guy, who knows. Maybe he could play a Mike Vrabel role in goal line offensive situations.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he’s good at picking up shots to the head penalties or performing Three Stooges routines during games? Haha, yes!
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s good at lifting weights, that’s for sure.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah those arms are huuuuuyuuuuge
Confrontation simply means meeting the truth head on - Coach K
by norcaliangelsfan on Apr 6, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I think it is really disappointing if they don’t address DE in round 1, but it would be more disappointing to a lot of folks I think if they ignore the defensive front 7 entirely in round 1. I’m starting to think for Dick Jauron’s sake and the fact they are in year 4, jobs on the line, with wolves at their door ready to bust in and kick them out if they go 7-9 again, that trading Jason Peters if possible, acquring an extra early pick to fill OLB, OL and maybe TE is the better situation for the Bills.
Either way, OL, IMO is the MOST PRESSING need for the Bills in this draft with the Jason Peters situation. We cannot afford to lack quality depth on the OL, as the entire success of the 2009 Buffalo Bills requires Trent Edwards to have time to find all these weapons he has.
Add to that the fact if they take Robert Ayers at #11 I’ll throw my beer through my TV, I think DE is out of the question at 11
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Apr 6, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd still rather have the impact situational pass rusher
but can definately see them going TE/LB at 11. then g/c in 2
whatever – just improve our weak areas – I don’t really care who or what they draft as long as their plugging the obvious holes with what they feel are quality players.
Anyway Kenny, Yellow MegaMan is only $8.95, so maybe your mom can put it on layaway and make payments for a year or two
by J2 on Apr 6, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way, folks (as emails continue to filter in like crazy)…
I have NO inside information on this. This is entirely an opinion piece. There is a very real possibility that I could be 100% wrong on this. Carry on.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Better put that disclaimer up in paragraph number 1!
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
…it wouldn’t be the first time. :}
Still, I wouldn’t be terribly disappointed to see the Bills go with Pettigrew and English in rounds 1 and 2, hopefully by trading down and giving the team some additional picks to work with on the OL.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
by Calvert on Apr 6, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…it wouldn’t be the first time. :}
Indeed. I’ve gotten quite used to the delicious taste of crow.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This might not be as bad a senerio as it seems at first glance.
As much as I believe we desperatey need a DE that can rush the passes, I’m just as concerned with the state of our O-Line. With Dockery gone, Peters probably gone and a Carolina backup at center, the O-Line needs some major attention. Looking at the players available in the draft I feel we can improve our team quicker by focusing early on the O-Line. Especially if we have an opportunity to trade down and pick up an additional No.3. I know this senerio means we suffer through another year of no pass rush. But at least we address one of the lines with quality players. And maybe ,just maybe we keep Edwards healthy for a year.
by gjv on Apr 6, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha, you won't let Hangartner go
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joking with you bud. Stay cool
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
Why has my post been removed?
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Apr 6, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Language. Please don’t swear.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrecked
Nice one-two, with the DE review preceding. That is fine blogging.
What pick, hypothetically, is the fence between early and late? Day one? Later?
Proud member of the 'Outer Circle.'
by thurman on Apr 6, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I consider third round “early” and fourth round “late”. But I’m sure many people will see it differently.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are unbalance with pick value, like top-heavy or bottom-heavy, that might shift the definition.
Proud member of the 'Outer Circle.'
by thurman on Apr 6, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I consider both “middle”, with 5th and after late….
Semantics
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don’t see a DE at #11, K, do you think another early pick could get enough edge pressure to win 10 games?
Proud member of the 'Outer Circle.'
by thurman on Apr 6, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, no. I don’t see Mario Williams helping us get 10 wins this year. We have so many holes right now and a season dependent on the QB taking a major step forward. I want a DE to help with the rush this season, but also to become a mainstay on our D for years.
Outside of DE, I’d be happy with Matthews, if that’s what you were looking for…
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Trent doesn’t make a major step forward (or Ryan Fitzpatrick is the surprise of the decade) the 10 wins are unrealistic, I agree. But the second and third round picks could yield a play-making DE that pushes the entire D into the top 12. ?
Proud member of the 'Outer Circle.'
by thurman on Apr 6, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, with better offenses on the schedule this year, and little to no improvement made to our D, I can’t see any one player pushing us into the top 12 statistically. That’s not to say a player can help our D become more opportunistic, I just don’t see us creeping into the top 10. Our run D still stinks.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well we were 14th against in points and yards last year.
I think the addition of a stud LB could push us into the top 12 or 10. Especially if Whitner plays anywhere near a 2nd round pick, much less a first round pick, much less a top 10 pick.
I get your reasoning with who we play but we play the Titans, Browns, Dolphins, etc. who haven’t really improved their offense this offseason. I think we will still be able to field a top 10 defense.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 8, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dya one is different now...
used to be first three rounds. now it’s only two rounds.
FYI.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 8, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be content
if they grab Pettigrew 1st, then go for Ayers or Johnson. I like both those players at DE.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ayers will be long gone by the second round.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? He’s risen that much, huh?
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. I’m seeing him anywhere from 11-20s these days.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You had him ranked as a 2nd round prospect the other day. I like the idea of him as a Bill.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was actually yesterday, and it remains true today. But that’s just me. MY grade. Not “where the guy will go.”
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, you think the Bills would be best served drafting him in the 2nd, if available?
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if that’s the type of argument I’m making, I’d just say we’d be best served signing him as a UDFA. :)
I’m saying that I think he’s a second round-caliber player. And that is 100% my opinion.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
understood
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Apr 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
And just because there are 32 selections in the first round, for example, doesn’t mean that everyone has exactly 32 players with a first round grade. Some could have 29, while others could have 34. And that holds true for every round of the draft.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Apr 6, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ll find out soon enough that I have 28 players as Round 1, 28 as Round 2, 28 as Round 3, 34 as Round 4, and 153 in Rounds 5-7. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very impressive breakdown.
I am referring to your work, not necessarily the quality of this draft class :-)
You must watch and evaluate more games than I do. I don’t have the knowledge or the time to grade and rank that many players! Well done, Brian.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Apr 6, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t do as much as you’d think. I do a LOT of talking/emailing with folks, though – but any time you’re on this end of things, it’s mostly going to be guesswork and hearsay.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evidently I don’t have the resources that you have, so I am stuck grinding out whatever games I can scrounge up. As I have mentioned before, I refuse to believe some report on the internet. Game tape, on the other hand, never lies.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Apr 6, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said – I don’t do as much as you think. I watch some college ball in the fall.
I refuse to believe some report on the internet
You refuse to believe it, or you take it with a grain of salt? Because if I read “Andre Smith can block the snot out of defenders”, I generally believe it. If I read “Andre Smith has character issues”, I’ll leave it up to the team to decide that. I don’t think “believe” is the right word. If you were aiming for “an Internet report is not an indicator of pro potential”, fine. But that doesn’t mean these reports don’t have their uses. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I read a scouting report on the internet, I won’t believe it until I confirm it.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
by Fort Worth on Apr 6, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually have 154 players for Rounds 5-7.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I agree with the premise
The underpinning of your article is that Buffalo doesn’t draft role players but rather complete players. You then curiously list Fine as one of the complete players. I like Fine but he’s not (yet) a complete player. He’s a blocking TE who has yet to demonstrate much in the receiving department. In that way Fine isn’t unlike the pass catching TE prospects who haven’t demonstrated the ability to block. If Buffalo is willing to draft a guy like fine why not a guy like Cook or Nelson? I stipulate that the Bills would rather have the complete package but that’s rarely available in the draft, particularly after the first couple of guys at a position are taken.
Also, Perry Fewell gave an interview (at the Combine, I think—and a much more lucid effort than Turk managed) in which he specifically stated that Buffalo would be more than happy with a ‘situational’ player. If memory serves he was speaking directly about the pass rush and the need to get pressure even if it wasn’t from an every down player.
On the offensive side of the ball, I don’t know that Hardy was drafted because he was an every down player. Wasn’t the knock on him coming out of college that he basically just loped downfield and was tall? OBD knew that their 2nd round draft pick was likely to contribute only in the red zone and harped on his ability to turn 3s into 7s.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Buffalo take a pass rushing specialist at #11, even less so if the Bills somehow come to terms with Peters. I’ve been openly lobbying for a trade down for quite some time but I won’t exactly be crushed if Buffalo instead takes a guy who can generate some quick pressure on opposing QBs.
by Ron From NM on Apr 6, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Fine but he’s not (yet) a complete player
Just because he hasn’t demonstrated much in the receiving department doesn’t mean that the Bills don’t think he can. BIG difference.
Also, Perry Fewell gave an interview in which he specifically stated that Buffalo would be more than happy with a ‘situational’ player.
No, he gave an interview in which he said HE HIMSELF would be more than happy with a situational player.
Wasn’t the knock on him coming out of college that he basically just loped downfield and was tall? OBD knew that their 2nd round draft pick was likely to contribute only in the red zone and harped on his ability to turn 3s into 7s.
Then why didn’t they use him for that purpose? The answer is because they didn’t want a part-timer. I’m confident that OBD saw him as a future star at WR, and still see him in that light. When he gets on the field, they want him on the field all the time.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Cook and Nelson haven’t demonstrated much in the blocking department doesn’t mean that the Bills don’t think they can. Where’s the difference?
Okay, so Fewell—part of the brain trust at OBD…or so one would hope—is pushing for a situational guy. Maybe he’s not the only one.
Hardy may be a future star and much more than a guy who wanders into the end zone and is tall. I hope he is a 1000+ yard receiver but that wasn’t my point. Hardy wasn’t a complete WR coming out of college. His selection suggests, like Fine’s, suggest that OBD is comfortable with taking situational guys.
As for why Hardy wasn’t used more in the red zone, I think we’d have to ask Turk “Scoring at the end of the first half is unimportant” Schonert.
by Ron From NM on Apr 6, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Cook and Nelson haven’t demonstrated much in the blocking department doesn’t mean that the Bills don’t think they can. Where’s the difference?
I do agree with that. It’s unfair to dismiss one of the TE’s who haven’t been asked to block yet simply because they haven’t shown the ability to be good blockers.
(I’m sure someone will point out the fact that I shouldn’t dismiss some DE prospect because they haven’t shown the ability to rush the passer, but that’s a whole other animal.)
Ron, I think you are blurring the line (at least in my eyes) between situational and able to contribute full-time immediately. In the case of Hardy and Fine, the team likely views them as future full-time starters, but that doesn’t mean they were fully capable of performing in that realm as rookies, or even second year players this upcoming year. On the other hand, some players are destined to be situational players in the pros (see many mid/late round pass rush specialists). Just because Hardy/Fine were nothing more than situational players as rooks, it doesn’t mean OBD was thinking they were situational players. Playing a situational role as a rookie is not uncommon at all, especially 2nd and 4th rounders.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Situational guys should be able to contibute immediately. Even if a pass rushing DE is a one trick pony he should be able to help generate more pressure—particularly if he’s on the field on passing downs where his entire focus can be to get the QB. I think we agree that a situational player has to have the ability to develop into more than a one trick pony over time. So, to keep this in the DE realm, if the Bills think, say, Brown can start off as a situational pass rusher and develop into an all around DE then why wouldn’t he be the pick? If on, the other hand, OBD doesn’t think Maybin will ever be an every down DE then I can see why they’d pass on him.
by Ron From NM on Apr 6, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Cook and Nelson haven’t demonstrated much in the blocking department doesn’t mean that the Bills don’t think they can. Where’s the difference?
The difference is that it’s harder to find a blocker that can catch than a catcher that can block. As this is a DE post, however, let’s say it’s easier to find a run-stuffer that can get after the passer than a pass-rusher that can stop the run.
Okay, so Fewell—part of the brain trust at OBD…or so one would hope—is pushing for a situational guy. Maybe he’s not the only one.
Maybe he’s not. The mere mention of those beliefs, though, lead me to believe he was using the public realm as a way to raise a little excitement around his his opinion, which is likely in the organizational minority.
Hardy wasn’t a complete WR coming out of college. His selection suggests, like Fine’s, suggest that OBD is comfortable with taking situational guys.
Actually, to me, I thought last year the Bills were too focused on POTENTIAL guys. I think they viewed Hardy as the best receiver long-term, and THAT’S why they took him.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s too bad the team needed a bigger WR last year, or else we could have drafted a difference maker like Eddie Royal….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many blocking TEs does Buffalo need? I don’t see a problem with Buffalo carrying a (primarily) receiving TE who can develop into a halfway decent blocker on the roster. As for DEs, how many run stuffers can you think of who have become first tier pass rushers? Guys like Freeny aren’t bad against the run but they’re pass rushers first—particularly in the style of defense Buffalo runs.
I hope you’re wrong about Fewell. First, it would be just sad for a DC to be drumming up support with the fans for ideas he knows are going nowhere. Second, if a coordinator wasn’t part of the brain trust, well, that would be pretty sad, too.
I hope you’re right about Hardy being the best WR long term. Desean Jackson’s numbers would certainly help Evans…
by Ron From NM on Apr 6, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see a problem with Buffalo carrying a (primarily) receiving TE who can develop into a halfway decent blocker on the roster.
I don’t necessarily disagree, I’m just saying that’s not traditionally how the Bills have done things.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is
where I think the Bills scheme on defense could get better. I have referred to the John Abraham situation in Atlanta last year numerous times this off-season. He played something like 45-55% of the total defensive snaps as they found he would be kept fresh, more productive, and less chance of injury. The Bills, IMO, desperately need situational guys on defense because of:
1) our defense is “bend but don’t break” which we end up having a lot of times the defense is on the field for 10-15 play drives. Having situational LB and DE’s is crucial to success
2) Our DE’s are proven to be average pass-rushers even in “ideal” pass-rushing situations. Thus, adding “pass-rush” specialists to our team would greatly benefit those situations
I understand wanting a guy to be on the field all the time, but the NFL requires a huge adjustment for players on and off the field. There are certian players that handle the transition with ease, but with others who don’t, limiting their snaps and focusing them on situational plays is the best way to get them involved especially at the offensive skill positions and DE/OLB pass rushers
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by MARVelous on Apr 6, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
plz
What this team needs is a pass-catching TE (Chase Coffman is my preferred option) and an Everette Brown-type-DE.
1. round – Everette Brown, DE, Florida State
2. round – Max Unger, C/OG, Oregon
3. round – Chase Coffman, TE, Missouri
This is what I would consider a somewhat realistic first three rounds of a Dick Jauron-draft, and I would love that draft. (Obviously, this would require us re-signing Jason Peters, which I pray will happen.)
Btw. Brian – do you have any insight on how the negotiations with Jason are going? Thanks beforehand
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Apr 6, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is what I would consider a somewhat realistic first three rounds of a Dick Jauron-draft
Where in Jauron’s draft history, particularly in his time with the Bills, did you find reason to believe that the draft you posit is in any way realistic? (Not trying to be antagonistic, I’m legitimately curious.)
No, I have nothing new on the Peters negotiations. My guess is that nothing has changed – Peters is still demanding to be the league’s highest-paid OT, the Bills don’t want to do it, and they’re trying to convince themselves that trading him is the best option.
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by Brian Galliford on Apr 6, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how the Bills could pass on Everett Brown at #11 if he is sitting there
Brian’s description of our DE’s says it all… We have 3 guys right at or over 30 and one younger unproven guy.
The Bills talked about drafting playmakers and having talent. Brown is one of the premier playmakers on Defense. Character great. Work ethic strong. Rushes inside and outside.
We have to take him, unless they trade down
by dabillsr1 on Apr 6, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Then of course...
They’ll probably surprise us all and draft a safety or another DB or something.
by dabillsr1 on Apr 6, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade for Aaron Kampman
Personally, from what I’ve been reading (including an article by Jason Cole on Yahoo! Sports) the Packers may consider trading DE Aaron Kampman who is expected to struggle in their new 3-4 defensive scheme. My thoughts for Bills…
Draft OT Andre Smith at #11, trade Jason Peters to either Detroit (#20) or Philly (#21) for the pick mentioned and additional pick(s). Use the obtained pick on Brandon Pettigrew. Then trade Chris Kelsay and either a 2nd or 3rd round pick to Green Bay for Aaron Kampman. Bills pull that off, they’re golden heading into the season.
DC Chocolate City!
by djc1877 on Apr 6, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would the Packers want Kelsay?
He would be equally as horrible in the Packers scheme as Kampman (if not more horrible)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Apr 8, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO!
No more aging DE’s that need a new contract, PLEASE!
Then trade Chris Kelsay and either a 2nd or 3rd round pick to Green Bay for Aaron Kampman.
I think you’d have to bump it up to a 1st if you want any team to take Kelsay back……
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Apr 6, 2009 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good Points
- I also thought that since they have so many $$$ tied up with the Big-3, that would affect their draft decision. Although I did hear that Jauron wants a pass-rusher. A lot of draft experts state that offensive linemen and pass rushers are what most NFL teams look to draft early, rather than linebackers, tight ends, and safeties.
- That being said, if things do not go well with Peters and they trade him, I look for them to draft a tackle.
- Who knows with this organization. After the Mike Williams and Donte Whitner picks from the past, nothing would surprise me.
by BuffaloWhiner on Apr 7, 2009 9:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been on & off the fence
so many times during this off season when it comes to our 1st pick it’s rediculous!
I truely want to see Pettigrew in a Bills uni for sure. I keep imagining in my head the weapons we’d have as far as the receiving corps goes, especially if they can manage to grab up Pettigrew and solidify the TE position once and for all. The thought of having 83 on one side, 81 on the other, 82 in the slot (where he belongs), and adding a Pettigrew lined up @ TE, AND having 2 very capable pass catchers in the backfield, the passing game SHOULD be one to really look forward to this up coming year.
BUT, w/ the Peter’s situation seemingly repeating itself all over again, I seem to fall off that fence over & over again.
Assuming OBD gets a deal done w/ 71, then I see the passing game improve dramatically w/ the receivers already on our roster, and by adding Pettigrew into the mix, only makes it more dangerous for ANY ‘D’. I mean, who do you cover? It gets me excited to think of some of the possibilities we’ll have on ‘O’.
BUT, once again there’s that HUGE problem over at the 71 camp lingering over our heads AGAIN. That right there is what I think – DICTATES who the Bills target in the 1st round.
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by Pocono Bob on Apr 7, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DICTATES who the Bills target in the 1st round.
I would say “add to” because if we let him walk its probably for a first and something. maybe a second and something. so we would still grab a DE/LB/TE/DT in the first as well as a T in the first with the pick we acquire for him – provided we get that of course
The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.
by J2 on Apr 7, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way a 2nd
for Peters. I can’t see them going that LOW for him. I agree that if we deal him to say – the Eagles for their 21st or 28th, yes, we have more draft ammo, but also a HUGE hole to fill as well.
To me, that means they HAVE to grab a LT & the thoughts of a rookie starting in place of 71 doesn’t make me feel all warm & fuzzy, but just how long can OBD let this simmer the way it has the past 2 years?
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by Pocono Bob on Apr 7, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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