Sign Pisa, Levi, then what?
by Moxicity on May 15, 2009 8:48 AM EDT
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PrintIf the Bills do sign these two, is there another starting position that needs to be addressed/upgraded? I'm usually a cynical homer, but I think I like every starter. That said, rookies aside, who is the weakest starter? Kelsay might be the obvious choice, but the pass rush was addressed in the draft. If all holes have been filled with above average talent, then playoffs should be a no brainer? Am I missing something?
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Where is Derek Schouman starting?
He is the third string TE. Do you mean Derek Fine?
The weakest starter is unquestionably Chris Kelsay. The only other argument you could make would be Corey McIntyre at FB who is practicly worthless at times.
Others to consider might be Pisa if he signs. Maybe Bryan Scott. Maybe Donte Whitner. If we signed Jones, Andy Levitre would probably end up on the bench so he wouldn’t count.
But the point of this shouldn’t be who we could upgrade. Just leave it at who is the weakest starter. If we signed both of these guys we’d have a hard time adding an upgrade at most any position. We have $4M in cap space and the two would likely eat most of that room up.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Schouman is listed at the top of the depth chart on the Bills official site. He should be considered the representative of whoever wins that starting job.
And one thing I didn’t mention is that Levi Jones should still be on this list if Buffalo were to sign him.
Well there is no way Schouman will be the opening day starter for this team.
And I think Derek Fine or Nelson will both be capable starters for us.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 15, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the fanpost. I would change up the poll quite a bit though. Kyle Williams has no business being on this list, he tied studs Darnell Dockett and Kris Jenkins with the 8th most solo tackles in the league. You could make the argument that he was better than Stroud last year and is the best defender on our defensive line. And I would add Langston Walker to the poll and he would get my vote for Buffalo’s weakest starter. Whoever starts at TE would be a close second. Chris Kelsay is the other guy who I would throw in that group, but with Denney and Maybin on the roster, Kelsay won’t be too bad if Buffalo limits his snaps.
If all holes have been filled with above average talent, then playoffs should be a no brainer?
Well, that’s still a major problem for this team. If Buffalo were to sign Pisa and Jones, I would say that the team is filled with average talent. There’s only 32 teams in the league, so that means 32 starters at some positions and 64 at others. How many players can we really claim are above average starters on this team? Let’s say that you have to be in the top 12 or so of your position or the top 20 or so if that position starst two players to really be above average (and use your imagination for positions that 4-3 defenses start more or less of than 3-4 defenses). Then Buffalo has Lee Evans and TO as truly above average players. Throw Fred Jackson in there if you want to keep backups seperate. Actually you could probably make a case that the trio of runners Buffalo has is a top 10 unit, so let’s just put them in the above average category.
I’d say that Kyle Williams, Marcus Stroud and Terrence McGee are fringy above average guys. But everyone else on this team is average or worse. Put Buffalo’s starting lineup next to New England and you can see that this team still lacks the elite talent that it takes to compete with the best. Actually, just put them up against an average NFL team and you probably find more above average players on the other team. Buffalo really needs guys like Maybin, McKelvin, Whitner, the interior offensive lineman and most of all, Trent Edwards to grow into elite level players for this team to be a favorite for the playoffs.
by kaisertown on May 15, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
What the holes have been filled with is the key...
The holes are filled but with a whole lot of youth and that dreaded word POTENTIAL. From Poz, Trent, Donte and the rookies, a lot is riding on their success and ability to become above average. However, aside from the unknown rookie talent, I don’t think there is a young starter not ready to break out. Is Donte a question mark? Who do you think won’t step up and be an above average or a star?
by Moxicity on May 15, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It would be interesting to stack up starter v. starter for playoff caliber teams against the Bills players to see how they fare at each position (but alas, we have jobs, uggh!). But I think the Bills real strength right now is their depth. Hopefully some of the younger guys can step up as one of the best starters in the league at their position. Some certainly have the potential to do so.
But for now, I’d vote Walker since we have to compare him to starting left tackles now.
Without looking it up, I can say the only place where Buffalo definitively beats New England is RB1. I think Buffalo’s WR2 (whichever player you want to call it) is better than Welker and Fred Jackson is as good or better than Morris, Maroney, Taylor or whoever ends up being the backup there. Buffalo might have an advantage in Wood vs. Neal at RG. Both CB spots are close. James Sanders is an average FS and whether it’s Whitner or Byrd back there, Buffalo might be better. Ben Watson isn’t all that good so maybe Fine/Nelson ends up being better soon. I would give the Pats the advantage at the other 13 starting spots, some of which are embarrasingly in the Pats favor.
Totally agree
The talent may be improved, but it’s still far from where it needs to be.
I think outside of RB, WR and maybe DT, the Bills are average or worse at every position compared to the NFL average. That’s pretty rough, and not exactly a sign that playoffs should be expected.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
what about cb?
I would definitely add cornerback to that list. I think at years end we can add C, G and S (heck maybe even LB), but for now those are too unproven. Definitely not DE right now.
Not now. We have to see if McKelvin takes that next step. McGee is average, maybe slightly above average. I’d put the overall position right around the NFL average.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
that's really a meaningless statement though
would you have said the same about the Cardinals heading into last season?
How about the giants the year before that?
I believe we have upgraded significantly at many positions, and changed our look at others…on paper you can sit and say the talent isn’t where it needs to be…but we really won’t be able to access your statement until like week 8.
Oh, and being above average at RB and WR is probably a good thing on offense
as is being above average at DT on defense
by tiimbitz4786 on May 16, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
would you have said the same about the Cardinals heading into last season?
Yes. Going into last season, I would have said that Darnell Dockett, Karlos Dansby and Adrian Wilson were better players than anyone on our defense. Antrell Rolle was coming off a 5 INT season where he scored 3 defensive touchdowns. Fitz would be the best player on the Bills roster by a large margin. I like Boldin more than TO or Evans too. QB is so important and Warner is a hall of famer who was coming off a season where he threw 27 TDs in 14 games. Arizona was like the anti-Bills. Instead of having a roster of solid players they have some of the games elite talent, but have had trouble surrounding those players with guys who don’t stink.
I think what got the Cards to where they are is the fact that they finally starter serrounding their stars with guy who don’t stink. Not great players, but players that complement their stars.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 16, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, I think the situation with teams like AZ is this:
They also had significantly better coaching.
by thefourwinds on May 18, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
God I really hope OBD doesn’t sign Levi Jones.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on May 15, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions
didn’t brian say that brad butler was our best o-line starter last year?
also, levi isn’t a stud. he’s an idiot who isn’t worth the time addressed him on these boards. he would be a terrible acquisition. don’t you think there’s a reason, with all the bad LTs in this league, that no one’s called him up?
Why is he an idiot? Do you even know him or his situation??!?!?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
do you? he ran himself out of his last job – which would have earned him enough money to live comfortably for most of the rest of his life – because of his poor attitude and performance on the field. that sounds like an idiot to me.
huh?
He was released because of injuries and because the Bengals drafted Andre Smith. What are you talking about?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I’d argue that he ran himself out of town (more because of injuries then attitude though). Think abut it, the Bengals still have a holw at RT, if Jones was still a good tackle, wouldn’t they have just switched him sides? You don’t just do releasing good tackles.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 16, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Coincidence?
I’d like to stay away from a guy that started getting injured every year after he got a big contract extension. Not that I want someone playing through serious injury, but you need to play with some pain as an NFL offensive lineman.
It might be coincidence that the two go together, but to be on the safe side, I think we should see how things go this year.
by bluecollarbuffalo on May 16, 2009 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions
There are less than 5 players who I would consider to be bad players who start at LT. Which teams really need a LT? How many teams have LTs who are worse than Ellison is a LB or Fine/Schouman are tight ends? Where does everyone get the idea that LT is a shallow position? It might be the deepest position in the entire league.
but a talented LT who can play RT in a pinch is great to have for water breaks and that kind of stuff. he’d be an above-average sub on most teams, and that would be where people would want him since he’s not really at starting caliber right now. but he hasn’t had any offers he’s considered. that tells you something – either he thinks he’s way better than he is, or teams won’t touch him with a ten-foot pole.
Williams and Butler don’t belong on this list. In fact, they are towards the stronger part of the starter spectrum.
I can’t see how Schouman will start for us, so that depth chart must have him as a place holder. Let him be the figurehead here for a mediocre TE position.
My list would be:
Kelsay
TE
Walker
Ellison/OLB
Whitner
and part of me thinks Trent should be on the list, near the top….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Butler
I know the general consensus around here is that he is a strong player. I never noticed him much. KC Joyner disagrees (from the POA numbers). Was there ever a final performance evaluation of our ’08 line from Ron?
Not noticing a O-Lineman is a good attribute, it means that he’s not mouthing off or screwing up.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 16, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Trent should be on the list. I like the kid, think he’s got the ability. It just needs to stick.
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on May 15, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
And wind
Having a punting contest everytime its windy isn’t a good sign for a team that plays in a stadium with swirlingwinds in Buffalo, NY. So, if he doesn’t show he can do that this year, some actual competition (veteran or otherwise) will need to be brought in next year to see what happens. He shows flashes, but hopefully it will last this year or all of the discussions about their record are moot.
by bluecollarbuffalo on May 16, 2009 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
I know Kelsay bashing is basicly a sport here at Buffalo Rumblings, but you guys are nuts if you don’t think he’s better Schouman.
Who said that?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You had Kelsay as a worse starter than "TE"
But Fine and Nelson are better to me than Kelsay. Schouman is not.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 16, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said that anywhere
Not that I might not believe it, but I never said it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
What's this?
My list would be:
Kelsay
TE
Walker
Ellison/OLB
Whitner
and part of me thinks Trent should be on the list, near the top….
That list makes sense to me. You “used Schouman as a figurehead for the mediocre TE position” then put Kelsay above TE in your worst starter argument.
Kelsay is worse than our TEs so I agree with you on it.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 16, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see where I ranked anyone.
I simply took the order from the poll above, Kelsay listed first, Schouman listed next, and then added to it. It’s a list, nothing more.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
There it is...
OK. I get it. I was never arguing with you but to me that looks like a priorities list where it was. Like #1 Kelsay, #2 TE, #3 Walker from top to bottom.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 17, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Hence no numbers!!!!
I’m not sure how I’d rank them, but Kelsay would be in the top two or three, and maybe numero uno.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I understand K....
I really do.
Kelsay was number one on my list.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 17, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Kelsey is better then Schouman, but here’s the difference, Schouman isn’t a starter and doesn’t belong on that list, Kelsey does.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 16, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Whitner the worst starter?
sure, he doesn’t make plays
but come on…he’s a respectable starting safety…and an above average one at that…if we were to let him go…MANY teams would gobble him up in a second…
i know you don’t like him…but let’s be fair…he’s not our problem on defense…in fact, i think there was a noticeable difference with him out last year when he got hurt (and that’s not a good noticeable difference)
by tiimbitz4786 on May 16, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say he was the worst starter. Just one of them. I don’t see how that’s such an issue. He’s a mediocre SS and gives us no big plays. There’s no way he’s proven to be an above average player. He misses tackles and gives us next to nothing in our pass defense.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
No word.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 17, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Please OBD, don't sign Levi Jones.
If he can’t cut it with the Bengals, why would he be a good fit elsewhere?
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on May 15, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions
First of all Schouman’s not a starter. Second we’re not going to sign Levi. I understand why so many ppl want him, but get use to the fact that it ain’t gonna happen. And third, if Pisa hasn’t signed by now, then I highly doubt that he will.
So my weakest starter right now is Ellisson.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 16, 2009 2:33 AM EDT reply actions
Ellison
I would have to agree that Ellison is the weakest starter. He get’s manhandled at the point of attack and misses too many tackles. At least Kelsey will get you something on running downs (and then you can take him out for Maybin).
Whitner also has to prove something this year. He has leadership qualities, but not many big plays. A big hit every now and then, but most of those hits come after a reception has already been made. Hopefully our defense gets a little more creative now that they have some more bodies in the secondary. (and I just don’t mean blitzing all the time).
by bluecollarbuffalo on May 16, 2009 7:34 AM EDT reply actions
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