State of the Bills Roster: Defensive End
Now that the 2009 NFL Draft is in the books and off-season player acquisition will crawl at a snail's pace, Buffalo Rumblings has begun re-examining the Buffalo Bills' revamped roster. We continue off our 'State of the Roster' series this morning with a look at the defensive end position. Previous installments: QB.
Bills fans are smart. Way back on January 22, well over a month prior to the start of the NFL's 2009 free agent signing period, the Buffalo Rumblings community identified a pass-rushing defensive end as Buffalo's most dire positional need. You are more than welcome to dock kudos based on the level to which you believe that decision was painfully easy to make.
Give credit to the Bills where credit is due - the team addressed their most critical need when they drafted speedy Penn State DE Aaron Maybin (pictured top right) in the first round of last weekend's NFL Draft. Again, feel free to dock kudos based on the mediocre sack production the team has had for the past two seasons.
Maybin diversifies Buffalo's talent at this position - and more importantly, it gives the Bills excellent depth. If Maybin can contribute a playmaking presence while keeping Buffalo's veteran rushers fresher than they've been in recent memory, the top pick will be considered a win regardless of gaudy production. Here's a closer look at Buffalo's defensive end position.
STARTER: Aaron Schobel
Don't call this guy injury-prone. Prior to last season, when Schobel missed essentially twelve games with a foot injury, the wily veteran hadn't missed a single game through his first seven NFL seasons. The fact of the matter, however, is that Schobel may have lost a step - even before the aforementioned foot injury. In his last 21 games, Schobel has just 7.5 sacks. Granted, he's been working with little to no help; that's why Maybin was brought in. If he's fully recovered from the foot ding, he'll return to his old, consistent self. A bigger if - if Maybin has the impact the team needs him to have, Schobel could approach Pro Bowl status once again.
Aaron Maybin
Initially, I liked Buffalo's selection of Maybin because of the type of player he is - i.e. completely different than any other defensive end on the roster. He's fast, he's explosive, he's got elite potential. Then I heard the young man speak, and read his story, and it dawned on me that they'd taken a humble, driven person in the first round of the draft as well. There's a solid amount of pressure on this kid's shoulders, fair on unfair; he's certainly got a lot of work to do. I think he's got the mental make-up to handle it.
STARTER: Chris Kelsay
This guy is much-maligned in these parts. That's fine - every blogger every fan Kurupt is entitled to his opinions. I submit, however, that Kelsay is going to be a vital part of Buffalo's defense next season. Why? Because he won't be asked to be something he's not - a prominent defensive end. Sure, he's paid like one, but that's irrelevant at this point - as long as he's helping the defense out, who cares? He'll teach Maybin how to prepare like a pro; he'll cede a strong percentage of his reps to the rook; he'll be a starter only in name. Kelsay is now a role player, folks - and he's perfectly cut out for that niche.
Ryan Denney
Very similar to Kelsay in that he'll now be a situational role player - probably on run downs - that offers versatility in that he can play inside or at either end. It never hurts to have a veteran reserve at end, and Denney is one of Buffalo's better defensive linemen against the run. He'll help next season as well.
Chris Ellis
The 2008 third-round draft pick wasn't close to being a factor last season even though he had ample opportunity to play due to injuries; he ended the season on IR. He spent the year in Buffalo's weight program bulking up, and ideally, he'll play bookend to Maybin on the left side at some glorious point in the future. But this kid's got a lot to prove, particularly in training camp this July.
Copeland Bryan
Honestly, I thought Bryan was an underrated force last season as a pass rusher. He'll never be anything more than a role player in this league, but I like his energy and his speed. He still has room to get better, and he has a knack for making things happen. He's got a large task ahead of him just to make the the roster, however.
Contract situations: Schobel, Maybin and Ellis are tied up for the foreseeable future. Bryan is on a one-year RFA tender. Denney is entering the final year of a four-year contract he signed prior to the 2006 season. Depending on how quickly Maybin develops, Kelsay might not make it through the end of his current (semi-expensive) deal, which runs through the close of the 2010 season.
Bottom Line
There is talent to work with here. The team has two pass-rushing threats in Schobel and Maybin. They've got heady veteran depth in Denney and Kelsay. They've even got another developmental prospect (Ellis) and a speedy hustler with some untapped potential (Bryan). Things are looking up for a position that hasn't changed much, but is different enough to work. But we're talking 'on paper' again. The only thing that matters is results.
At this point in time, Buffalo has done its job - all they can do this time of the year is improve their team 'on paper'. They've done that at DE. Unfortunately, the key to improvement at this position is the young, raw Maybin; without even an average rookie season from him, things will be par for the course (read: unimpressive) from this unit. It's a scary proposition - but the gamble is the best the Bills could do considering what was available to them this off-season.
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Comments
Well on paper.....the position looks solid (much like many positions on this team)
Unfortunately…….games arent won on paper….
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on May 2, 2009 6:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Favorite line of the entire article....
This guy is much-maligned in these parts. That’s fine –every bloggerevery fanKurupt is entitled to his opinions.
And while I’ll usually agree with K that we need to get rid of this guy, I think that as long as he doesn’t have to take more then 50% of the snaps all season long, he may be productive for us this season. Not very productive, but still productive. I’m more counting on the one thing we can’t complain about when it comes to Kelsey: his work ethic. I’m hoping that it will rub off on Maybin.
I think Maybin will become a star in this league faster then we think he will; especially if he trains as hard as Schobel and Kelsey do. If those two vets can keep him in the gym and in the film room, which shouldn’t be hard seeing as how he’s already a gym rat, then Maybin should learn very rapidly what it takes to be a great DE at the NFL level. Watch for Maybin to be our starter by the end of the year.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 8:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I see run defense as his biggest obstacle to being a starter this year.
It's just a game.
by jj24 on May 2, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Entirely agree
That being said, it seems to be his only obstacle. And with all we’re reading on the kid, I’m willing to bet anything that he’ll be training hs butt off to improve that aspect of his game. I’m willing to bet that he’ll become the starter ahead of Kelsey by week 10.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the all the injuries we get I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s starting halfway through training camp. Unless, of course, he’s the one who gets injured. Let’s hope not.(knock on wood)
It's just a game.
by jj24 on May 2, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salary Purge
Because he won’t be asked to be something he’s not – a prominent defensive end. Sure, he’s paid like one, but that’s irrelevant at this point – as long as he’s helping the defense out, who cares?
The move to keep Kelsay is extremely puzzling to me. I think the Bills made a fantastic move this offseason in their salary purge of players like Royals and Dockery. What was the rationale for releasing these players? They might not be horrible, but they were simply not living up to the parameters of their respective contracts. The retention of Kelsay who clearly is not living up to his large contract is extremely puzzling. Can anyone provide me rationale as to why he is still with the team? I would argue he should be released and subsequently resigned for a fair market contract.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t remember who posted it, but I read on here that OBD really likes Kelsey (his work ethic and his “leadership”) but are also fully aware of his limitations. Maybe they think that the reason why he hasn’t been living up to expectations is that he is a situational player (a run stop specialist… if you can even use the word specialist wen it comes to Kelsey) and that he has been taking too many snaps in the last 2 years.
I see the Maybin drafting as being beneficial to Kelsey. It will put Kelsey on the feild for his strong points, containing the run, while taking him off the feild on his weak oints, rushing the pass. I think thats how OBD sees it.
Are they right in thinking this way? Probably not (I’m think K will say that they are entirely wrong). But they may very well be right. Does that make his large contract any easier to swallow? no. But I’m hoping that his prodectivity will go up this year as the situational player that he is supose to be. That being said, if we can get our hands on any other talented DE, then by all means cut him. But until Maybin shows that he can defend the run with consitency, then I think Kelsey’s job is safe and sound.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dockery
Chris Brown wrote a nice article after they released Dockery saying how he was one of the nicest guys on the team, a film buff and workout warrior, but ultimately did not translate to on the field production. Again, retention of Kelsay and his bloated contract are a huge enigma.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d argue that Kelsey was more productive then Dock. And even though we like to mock Kelsey for opening his big mouth at the worst times, and we hate to admit it, but Kelsey does have a leadership role on the D, Dock had no such role on offence.
For the record, I also think that Kelsey is growsly overpaid for an underproductive situational player. And I too would like to see Kelsey get cut. But unlike a some ppl here, I’m looking at you K, I don’t want to see Kelsey gone until we can find a good replacement for him. I think that the mindset that OBD has too. They probably realise that he’s overpaid, and have all but flat out said that he’s taken too many snaps for a situational guy, but at the end of the day, they still like him. And as much as I hate to admit it, our opinion’s don’t mean sh*t when compared to the opinions of OBD. (And I’m now getting ready for the lashing that K will give me for defending OBD when it comes to Kelsey)
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No lashing for you CBF!
How could any replacement not be a good replacement in this case? Kelsay is just flat out bad at nearly everything, and terrible at some things (pass rush). I don’t see how an average vet couldn’t have come in and easily replaced him for half the cost. OBD puts too much value on Kelsay’s “Leadership”, which is laughable because of his lack of impact on the field. Leadersip is more than talk OBD!!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I entirely agree. I don’t like Kelsey any more then you do. I was just trying to play devil’s advocate by stating what I think OBD sees in Kelsey, not what I see in him.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
It makes it even worse trying to figure out why OBD keeps hanging on to him.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OBD
K, I think you are a little rough when you say he is bad at everything. To be fair, I would label him as below average on everything, but yes, terrible at the pass rush.
The point here is OBD is hypocrits, they say they are going to cut people whom are not performing to their contracts, but somehow Kelsay still holds his job. Maybe Kelsay holds some insider information and is blackmailing OBD! ;-)
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“nearly everything” is what I said!!!
Being below average on everything is just as bad, though. You don’t keep a guy and play him often if he’s below average at everything he does. That’s a guy you upgrade ASAP.
I agree with OBD being hypocritical here. For all the Royal and Dockery underachieved comments we’ve heard, and the like, it sure doesn’t make sense when you have Kelsay sitting on the other side of the ball being even worse. It’s not like we really had replacements on the team for those guys, so that can’t be used as a reason for keeping Kelsay….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason from OH-IO, I think I’m in almost complete agreement with you on this one.
by thefourwinds on May 2, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll continue to remain skeptical until I see Ellis and Maybin out there for a few snaps. We already know what we have in Denney, Kelsay, Schobel and Bryan. If Ellis and Maybin can contribute 15-20 good snaps a game this position might actually make an impact.
Lot’s of if’s on this position – have to wait it out and see what Ellis and Maybin can do – because quite frankly – we’ve seen what the other 4 can do
The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.
by J2 on May 2, 2009 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I think most of us have forgotten about Ellis, so any production from him is a bonus.
I hold out hope that Maybin can be a great situational pass rusher this year, expecting him to play every down is just not fair, he has a lot to learn.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The same thing can probably be said about Bowen and the LB corps. Lot of us have forgot about him so any production from Bowen this year will also be a bonus.
As for Maybin, lI agree that expecting anything more then a situational pass rusher is too much for this year. But I do thinkthat he may surprise us on the run this year.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denney vs. Kelsay
Another issue I take exception to is the automatic assumption that Kelsay starts, based on last years performance I beleive Denney deserves the opportunity to start opposite of Schobel. Denney provides more disruptive opportunities than Kelsay (deflected passes and sacks). He also has proven to be a stout DE in the run game. Last year, I have to admit I came around on this guy. I was never a fan (and I am not really now), but he played well and I have to give credit where credit is due. His height is definately an asset on the line, it sure seemed like he was capable during passing downs when he was unable to get to the QB, he would step back and at least get his big mitts up in there air.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 9:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
regardless of who starts I plan on seeing some big time rotation out of that position. So who ever starts really won’t even be a big deal.
The unit should be fresh – if they stay healthy – they’ll have a good rotation of guys.
The rest of you go get the goods on Stan. His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was and then lie and say it was a puppy.
by J2 on May 2, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I see it our DE corps only has 1 starter: Schobel, the rest will be in a situational rotation.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you’re putting way too much stock into the ‘start’ thing. I listed Maybin second in the breakdown for a reason – he’ll play more than any end except Schobel. So ‘starter’ at end on the Bills is a figurehead. It’s not a big deal.
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by Brian Galliford on May 2, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
But I think Denney deserves the label “starter” over Kelsay… just symantecs I guess. To me Kelsay is a symbol of what was wrong with the team last year. Overpaid players, underproducing. Seldom do I give OBD credit, but in the case of the salary purge, I love it. But that includes Kelsay, no matter how good of a guy he is, he simply is not a good football player.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spencer Johnson
Weren’t the bills trying to work Spencer Johnson into the rotation at DE last year? Somehow, I remember this. I apologize in advance if I am completely off my rocker.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dont’ think they were proactively trying to work him into the rotation. I think he was available to fill-in at DE if necessary. I think he got a few snaps there, but it wasn’t a lot. If Spencer Johnson were capable of handling more DE snaps, I think we would have kissed Kelsay good-bye by now.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. Just couldn't remember what they said.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t remember what was said, but it may have been along the lines that Johnson could play DE, not that they were looking to play him there more.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I liked the Maybin pick, there’s still a ways to go with this unit. A long ways to go. Expecting a rookie, in Maybin, to magically solve our pass rush ills is a way to be set up for disappointment. Will he help? You bet! Will we become a good passing rush team? No, probably not yet.
Regarding Schobel, how is having no help recently any different than the no help he was receiving 3-5 years ago? We haven’t had a threat opposite him his entire career. I don’t think his poor stats recently have anything to do with that. He’s quickly declining and is no longer a top pass rush threat (not that he was a great one to begin with). He’s another that needs to have reduced to snaps. Hopefully, that will give him the opportunity to be more productive again. I still can’t believe he didn’t have his foot operated on. He had a Lisfranc injury, which is not a minor injury! I fully expect his foot to be an issue all season.
I’m glad we have Maybin. I really like him as a player, and a person. Seems like a great kid. I just hope he can become the player we need him to be. He should provide a jolt in the arm of our pass rush, but I don’t think it’ll be enough. We’ve needed more than one pass rusher for a long time now, so don’t call out Maybin when our pass rush is still poor next year!
Sure, he’s paid like one, but that’s irrelevant at this point – as long as he’s helping the defense out, who cares? He’ll teach Maybin how to prepare like a pro; he’ll cede a strong percentage of his reps to the rook; he’ll be a starter only in name.
How is it irrelevant? Irrelevant because the team won’t be cutting him? Yes in that case, but it’s not irrelevant otherwise.
And what exactly will he be helping our D with? He isn’t good against the run and we all know about his “struggles” rushing the passer. So maybe his best role is allowing the other guys to get a rest? I wish we could have gone out and signed a cheaper vet that would have done just as well or just as bad as Kelsay, though it’d probably have been much better.
I think it’s kind funny, Brian, how it appears you are saying that he’ll be helping out the D by showing Maybin how to prepare and by taking less snaps. If that is his role, what in the world is he doing on the team!??!?!!?!
I like Denney as our potential other starter. He’s much more disruptive than Kelsay and also provides some semblance of a pass rush. It’s not much, but it’s more than Kelsay. I think he deserves at least twice as many snaps as Kelsay sees, but I doubt the coaches will see it that way.
Hopefully, Ellis’ new bulk will allow him to take snaps at LDE. He was really a disappointment last year, but it was obvious that he wasn’t ready to contribute. Now is the time he needs to step it up. He was supposedly a situational pass rusher coming in, so we need that impact this year. And if he really is up to 270-275 lbs now, he could really become an every down option for us at LDE. If that happens, I would be tickled pink.
There are a few question marks that OBD seems convinced will fall in the team’s favor. What happens if Schobel’s foot acts up again? We’re pretty much right back in the position we were in the last two years then. That’s pretty risky, and it’s also a lot to expect Schobel to be productive again.
And will Chris Ellis take that next step and become a contributor? I suppose the answer is no, right now. Another “wait and see” approach is in order. I think if the staff felt Ellis would definitely be a contributor this year, they’d have dumped one of the other DE’s.
Finally, did they do enough? Hardly! Maybin is just one man! We needed more help than just him….I guess I just don’t see us as significantly improved “on paper”, though I think Maybin is a significant upgrade/addition. I just don’t think he was enough.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybin is just one man! We needed more help than just him….
And Buffalo chose to take Byrd with Brown on the board. Unless Brown becomes a total bust or Byrd an outright stud that’s going to be difficult to get past.
by Ron From NM on May 2, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
That’s why I was so upset about passing on Brown there. Not only would he have added another pass rushing option to our D, but we’d have added another young, cheap one while providing insurance in case Maybin doesn’t live up to his billing or Schobel’s foot remains a problem….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brown
I like brown, but I don’t think his frame is best suited as an every-down DE in a 4-3. Having said that, I think you draft him as a possible OLB/DE and find a way to work a guy with that much talent into the game. He was too high a value at that pick to pass up.
K, I agree with you that OBD did not address the DE position and keeping Kelsay is ridiculous. However, I don’t know what their options were. Other than overpaid FA’s, the draft was the best place to get a DE, and they did that. Ultimately, that is why I was upset of how the Peter’s situation played out, because I beleived it was force the Bill’s to draft a OT with their #11. I am happy they acknowledged their excruciating lack of talent at DE and took Maybin. As I have said before, however taking Maybin, leaves a glaring hole at LT. OBD made a situation they were damned if the did, damned if they don’t.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t have been worried about Brown as an every-down player any time soon. Plus he’s got a strong, stout frame and uses leverage extremely well. Who’s to say he couldn’t have become a productive every down player here? He’s only 5-10 lbs lighter than Kelsay and Denney too.
Maybin’s selection was a great step in the right direction, they just needed to keep going. Oh well, maybe next draft. I can still hope for it then!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Carolina drafted him to be a 4-3 DE, and more importantly, to be Julius Peppers’ replacement, so can he really be that bad a fit for the 4-3??
Linsten, as much I’m warming to the Byrd pick, I still think that it was a HUGE mistake not to take Brown at that spot. Imagine what Brown AND Maybin would have done for our pass rush. And not just this year, but for the next 5 to 10. Huge mistake to pass him over.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still fail to see how two pass-rushing rookies is magnificently better than one.
I’ll take an explosive, dynamic-changing offense that scores some points as the second factor to an improved pass rush. Then I’ll take Maybin applying some heat and Byrd picking off a few passes.
Sheesh.
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by Brian Galliford on May 2, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take an explosive, dynamic-changing offense that scores some points as the second factor to an improved pass rush. Then I’ll take Maybin applying some heat and Byrd picking off a few passes.
That’d be nice, but it sure seems like somewhat of a longshot to me. Should we be improved? Yes, yes, yes. Should we be explosive enough to constantly be ahead? I doubt it.
It’s more than just having two pass rushing rookies. What about in 2 years when Kelsay, Denney and Schobel are gone? Well, what about this year when Maybin might be the only pass rush threat? We can’t just have one pass rusher and expect to have an impact pass rush. When you get a chance to add multiple pass rush threats, isn’t that usually a thing to do? I just hope Byrd makes good on improving our secondary.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Byrd
K, I am kind of split on this issue. If Byrd is a ballhawking, gamechanger than he was worth it. I beleive Ellis could provide that 3rd down pass-rushing ability that you covet, and we wouldn’t be able to play Maybin/Brown at the same time this year anyway. In a perfect world I wish they could have drafted Brown for the future, but we are simply not a good enough football team for that luxury.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Signs Yet that Schobel is Declining
I’m not sure why, but I particularly enjoy watching d-line drills at training camp, and when I was there last year I kept admiring (as I had done in previous years) how lightning fast Aaron Schobel was. No one else came even close to him in regard to speed and quickness, with the possible (and surprising) exception of Stroud. So I would insist based on direct observation that he had not lost a step or started to decline as of last August. Obviously he will be 32 this coming season and that might cause him to start to slow down, but there is absolutely no evidence as of yet that it has happened.
Two other quick thoughts. Maybin displays the same speed as Schobel and could make an impact right away, but rookie DE’s almost always take a year to get going and unless he is truly exceptional (which may be the case) I wouldn’t bet on too much of a contribution from him until 2010. And in any event, what the Bills’ pass rush needs more than anything is a wide-bodied and powerful DT to provide more push on the pocket up the middle, allowing the DE’s to do their job. McCargo could provide that push if he finally comes into his own this year. Otherwise, we may have to wait a year to get the pass rush we all want to see.
by Macktruck on May 2, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will look better in drills now!
He will be facing off versus Walker and not Peters!
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schobel looked faster than everyone last year because he was compared to Kelsay and Denney and the DT’s!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on May 2, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schobel looked two or three times as fast as Kelsay and Denney because he is incredibly fast. I saw tape of Maybin doing the same drill on the tv news last night and he looked to be as fast as Schobel, which is to say that Schobel (at least last August) was unbelievably fast. It was really fun to watch him. Incidentally, I have also observed the Bills’ LB’s doing the same drill and none are in the same league speed-wise as Schobel.
by Macktruck on May 2, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had a Lisfranc injury, which is not a minor injury! I fully expect his foot to be an issue all season.
Me too. I’m also concerned about Youboty’s foot. I think their foot injuries could hinder the rest of their careers.
by thefourwinds on May 2, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
denney = kelsay only at a lesser cost. to me there is no reason to keep kelsay on this roster, based on the amount of money he is being paid
denney and kelsay have almost identical skill sets, both are smart players that play the run well, and aren’t great or even good pass rushers. to me denney can do the job that kelsay will be doing, and he won’t cost us nearly as much. if we keep kelsay i’m fine w/ that, but i wouldn’t be surprised to see him cut either
by Shovel51 on May 2, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately........................
I think this is still the WEAKEST part of the entire roster. Maybin will take awhile to break in and learn the naunces of the game.
Kelsay is flat out NOT GOOD. He literally gets taken right out of the play on every snap. He isn’t a viable run defender because he takes off on the snap and immediately targets the outside shoulder of the tackle, creating a huge lane where he is supposed to be filling instead of vacating. How they keep this guy on the field, let alone paying him is beyond me.
I hope Schobel can come back and perform, because if he cannot the Bills are in for another long season of Tom Brady to Randy Moss and so on throughout the entire season. The Bills must bring the QB down in 2009 to be successful. If you see the opposing QB’s getting rid of the ball on Sunday make sure to cringe because our pass defense isn’t that good.
Denney is getting older very fast and this will probably be the last season he has in a Bills uni. That being said, I think he still has more to offer than Kelsay on any day of the week. (Very sad)
The time to deliver is now and if you fail to do so you will no doubt witness the consequences first hand.
by Cutter3636 on May 2, 2009 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way.............................
Our linebacking corps isn’t the strongest either!! Poz – You have to step up and have a big no HUGE year buddy!
The time to deliver is now and if you fail to do so you will no doubt witness the consequences first hand.
by Cutter3636 on May 2, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missed this during my first read
Kelsay is now a role player, folks – and he’s perfectly cut out for that niche.
Brian, what “role” would that be? Below average, over-paid DE?
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sigh…
What the heck else could I have possibly meant by role player? He’ll play situationally, likely on early downs.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on May 2, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what Brian is trying to say is that yes Kelsey is overpaid, but OBD decided to retain him and he’ll now be a situational rotation guy. It is what it is folks, and theres nothing we can do about it.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m also saying that it’s not like Kelsay’s contract is crippling the team. He’s going to make $3 million this year. By comparison, Roscoe Parrish will also make $3 million this year (though Kelsay’s is all base salary, whereas Parrish gets $1M base, $1.5M signing and $500K roster bonuses). Yet Parrish’s only utility to the team this year will be as a punt returner.
What’s more important to a good football team – a good DE rotation or a freakin’ punt returner?
Honestly, I’m right there with you when you guys say Kelsay is overpaid – for his production levels, he is. I’ve always viewed him as a rotational player. Buffalo’s front office clearly thought he could be something more, and paid him as such – and clearly, they were wrong. But that doesn’t make Kelsay a bad football player. His negatives are incredibly overblown, IMO.
We’re also ~ $13M under the cap if you believe Mark Gaughan’s rough estimate. Cutting Kelsay saves us $3M to spend on… who?… while depleting our pretty solid DE depth.
Cutting Kelsay makes ZERO sense at this point. It’s time to give that vendetta a rest, folks.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on May 2, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s more important to a good football team – a good DE rotation or a freakin’ punt returner?
Sorry Brian, but since this punt returner is a constant threat to take it to the house, and will constantly bring back 2 or 3 per year for TD’s, I’m going to have to go with Roscoe.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although I agree with everything else you said.
by CanadianBillsFan on May 2, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"good"?
What’s more important to a good football team – a good DE rotation or a freakin’ punt returner?
Man, I would take a GOOD DE rotation. This must NOT include Kelsay, since he is below average. I would much rather have us spend the $3 million on someone that could turn into something down the road. Or spent that $3 milllion to keep Peters, or spend that $3 million to help extend Fred Jackson, or use that $3 million to sign George Wrightster, or use the $3 million to… etc.
I do believe Kelsay’s inflated contract does cripple the team in some ways. I can’t beleive we will not be able to find a below average DE on the waiver wire at some point for significatnly less money than Kelsay is earning.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on May 2, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about using Kelsay’s and Parrish’s combined $6 million for another pass rush threat, or to sign Fred Jackson, or…
by thefourwinds on May 2, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have the money to sign Fred Jackson.
The deal will get done when it gets done.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 5, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the rookie pool, though.
Mark G might be a little high. I have us closer to $12M. Take out the rookies and we have about $6M. We also haven’t signed Fred Jackson.
If we cut Kelsay it would add $1.6M to the cap number we have left. So in theory if we could sign his replacement for that amount of money we would be upgraded for the same price. Cutting Kelsay makes sense only if we can do that.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 5, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This unit is in for a whole of trouble
when they face a no-huddle attack. The ability to sub in guys who fit a down better will be negated. Schobel is this team’s only true every down player right now.
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on May 3, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
People say they haven't done enough to upgrade...
Well adding two early picks in two years should begin seeing dividends this year. Ellis and/or Maybin really needs to get some QB pressure this year. If they can do that, the unit as a whole will be improved over last year, period.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on May 5, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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