I say you can’t get much worse. Some might view this type of opinion with a negative connotation and that’s fine. I would rather have a young O-line coming out with a chip on their shoulder with something to prove over a “highly talented” group that can’t seem to bring it together.

Hmm…I have another question: I wonder how Barry Sanders’ stats would look? Now there was a back that could turn miserable blocking into a long gain. But probably if you averaged it out, his numbers still wouldn’t have looked all that good.

     I decided I would pitch my double sleeper tent in the "cant get any worse camp". I think our backs have the talent and ability to be great and that line gave them no chance last year. The biggest positive change to me is the center.

T his line is much more agile than last year as well. We had the "biggest"? I say we had the fattest. If they truly are considering to run an no-huddle offense than this was a good move.

argue with the Bills assessment of realizing their interior line sucked. We harped on Center play all season and by January the Alex Mach faithful were in full force. Who knows how this will translate to gamedays, but the improtance of solidifying the middle of the OL was absolutely crucial. I don’t think this line can get any worse, so if in fact they do improve, slowly start to gel as the season wheres on, then the offense can function without the hiccups of idiots on the OL like last year. And the most important part, IMO, is the ability to make line calls, be smart, and make adjustments. If these guys can be in the proper position, no false starts, etc, then this group will be miles ahead of Peters (11 sacks given up) and Dockery’s inability to do anything but just be a big body on Sundays

If Dockery was a push over, I am glad he is gone, and if Butler is better suited for the outside, that is a good move. I think Walker can handle the LT spot, because to me, a strong push up the middle effected the rest of the OL in a very negative way…liek when we played the Jets for instance…but, Peters had a bad year, and the moves just make a lot fo sense…it also shows me a desire to run right up the middle and do it effectively

We have two of the hardest running backs in the nfl in lynch and Jackson. They never go down on first contact, so if we can get them past the line of scrimmage they should average much better gains.

They also will have the advantage of our improved receiving corps with owens and nelson acting as a distraction to the LB’s.

I’m ok with a new offensive line. After watching the games there’s no surprise to see some changes come. Hopefully the new guys work out. It would be nice to stay relatively healthy, too. Unless Bell is good we probably can’t afford to lose two guys at any time. If we can keep our best five or six guys out there most of the time, in the same positions, then we should get some good play from our line. We’ll see.

But I do have to wonder if it holds true for OJ, Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, and Earl Campbell.

Here’s the thing, things can worse than 7-9, especially with our schedule.

I’m proud of the Bills for boldy going after the o-line, they addressed the skill positions in free agency with Rhodes and TO and so were able to focus on the line. The interior is vastly improved and I’m surprisingly confident going in with Walker and Butler at the tackles but I really wish the Bills would go get Levi Jones as insurance in case Walker is not mobile enough to handle the speed rushers we’re going to face this year.

I know I used the schedule when expressing my concerns about playing Byrd because of the receivers and Qbs we are facing this year but if we don’t want to delude ourselves we have to look at the competition, which I hate to say, is the toughest I can remember in many many years (which is saying a lot because except for last year we continually get slapped with ridiculously tough schedule). Walker is going to be tested by the likes of Dwight Freeney, Mario Williams, Richard Seymour, Julius Peppers, and John Abraham just to name a few. Does he have the mobility? Playing 2 games against the weak competition at the beginning of last year is different than playing a full season against the rushers this year. Of course, this is not forgetting the DTs our rookies and Hang will be severely tested by. Kris Jenkins, Vince Wilfork and Jason Ferguson each twice in addition to John Henderson, Shaun Rogers and others.

So in this context, I think things could definitely get worse, a lot worse. That said, the promise is there, maybe not to dominate, but to hold their own against such high level competition. I know last off-season I was one of the few optimists are here, and believe me, I’m not a pessimist this off-season, I’m just strongly suggesting a cautious approach to this season.

Last year we had what looked like the best o-line in football, two great backs, a young QB, a linebacking corp of three studs, great corners and a cakewalk schedule. Heck, Tom Brady going down in week 1 only fueled that optimism. This year, our team raises come eyebrows, studly receivers, stacked running backs, young talent on the line, a new pass rusher, and McKelvin has emerged. BUT…..we face such a tough schedule, teams that are strong on both sides of the ball, that I think we’re better served taking a wait and see then assuming that our o-line is going to be better, let alone the team.

I feel like a key in all of this is how far Demetrius Bell comes along in the offseason (and seasons to come). If he lives up to what I’m assuming OBD thinks he’s capable of, they’ll look brilliant for the Peters trade, which will then have kept the tackle position roughly equal, and drastically improved the interior. If nothing else, if Bell turns out well, I’ll be very comfortable with this line. I don’t mind Walker at LT for the time being (worst case scenario, keep a back on that side to help block on passing plays), but I don’t think that’s the long-term solution there.

but until we see it out on the field on Sundays, they are very overrated right now on paper. I like the changes on the offensive line. We didn’t pay lazy Peters WAY too much and we got rid of a very average, overpaid Dockery. The Bills will be playing a tough schedule this year and we will find out if they can step up and not only prove themselves but save their head coaches job.

Hangartner is one of the smartest, most intelligent offensive lineman in the NFL. He knows how to change the line calls and make adjustments on the fly. He hasn’t yet started because of the overcrowded line depth in Carolina. He is smart and also 6’5" and he plays at 315lbs. He is no slouch on the physical or mental side of the game, this is why the Bills coveted him so much. Along with the nasty streak that Hang, Wood and Levitre show for finishing plays and putting their man on the ground, it should be fun to watch the Bills play this year.

We’re not better until we’re better. This is the NFL and there are tons of great players and athletes out there, but until they show up and perform on Sundays, they are nothing.

Which camp are you in – the ‘we can’t get any worse’ camp, or the ’we’re not better until we’re better’ camp?

I don’t think we can be much worse on the OL, so I’m apart of that camp, but I also don’t see how we’re better with our additions until it’s proven out on the field, so I’m apart of that one as well. Can there be another camp for those who like camps….the Extremely Cautiously Optimistic camp? I like some of our pieces on the OL and think with Wood, Hang and Levitre inside and Butler at RT, we’ll be a very sturdy, nasty OL. With Walker at LT, we’ll also be pretty good in run blocking, I’m thinking (and hoping). I’m just extremely concerned about the pass protection.

Did Joyner really perform all this research based on the premise that RB’s don’t gain yards if the OL misses blocks? I know he’s looking for runners that succeeded despite blocking issues, but I’m guessing he won’t be finding too many. There’s a simple answer….getting hit in the backfield is going to result in losses or very short gains much of the time. Watching Freddie and Lynch last year, and seeing how often they had to dance around defenders in the backfield while still trying to gain yards, and getting about 2 yards a pop on those is pretty darn good, if you ask me. Yet, Joyner will consider it bad that that’s all they averaged even though it appears he didn’t take into account where the RB’s were hit in the backfield, how many defenders they had to avoid, whether there were actually holes elsewhere and a baseline for comparison. What if the rest of the league averaged negative yards or no yards in situations like these?

Call me crazy but I’ve always been under the impression that the Offensive Coordinator can make bad players look great, and unfortunately vice versa.
We can’t place all the blame for Trent getting pounded last year on the line. It’s hard to block professional pass-rushers and blitzing linebackers when they know you’re throwing the ball. If Turk wasn’t so damn obvious all the time, we could keep a defense on its toes, forcing it to react, not act. This offense has been the one reacting to defenses. That’s just the wrong way to do it. Too many 3rd and longs create too many sack opportunities.
I’m not saying we had or have a stellar o-line. But you have to be successful with the talent you have. When it comes down to the end of the day, every team has world-class talent. Some better than others. A good team exists when the coaching staff uses the strengths of the players it has to be successful. The Giants with their beastly running attack and the Cardinals air game are a result of using the team’s strength. Neither of those offenses would work with our team because our personnel does not allow it. But there must be a way to make this team work. That’s why coaches take the responsibility for losses.

I’m not really sure if the OL will be better. I think that this OL will do better this year than our OL did last year. But at the same time, I’m not sure that this new group is any better than our old group. And what I mean by that is, if Buffalo would have just stood pat with last year’s line, I think they get a better performance this season than the new line will give them.

Basically I think that Jason Peters is better than Langston Walker. I think that Levitre might be an upgrade over how Dock played last year, but I bet that Levitre, as a rookie isn’t any better than how Dockery plays this year in Washington (or would have played this season in Buffalo had we not cut him). I think Butler is better than Wood at RG, at least in Wood’s first pro season. And I think that Walker is a better RT than Butler, although the difference is pretty marginal. Hang has to be a solid upgrade no matter how you slice it and the difference might be huge, but I still don’t think that it’s enough to offset the dropoff that might exist at every other position.

I also think that this line is much more poised to succeed in the long run. People talk about guard as an easy transition, but your average 2nd round prospect at guard struggles as a rookie more than most positions. It’s rare for a guard to step in as a rookie and be successful and I’m not sure why nobody has really talked about that. But in the long run, I think Buffalo needs a future LT. Maybe it’s Bell or maybe it’s a first round draft pick or pricey FA in the 2010 or 2011 offseason and Buffalo might be set at the position for the next 5+ years. And not just set as in they found their guys, but set as in they have above average starters at several positions and solid guys at the other spots. So while I don’t think Buffalo has considerable upgraded the line for this season, I’m pretty happy with the way things turned out because the future of the OL looks good and that is what matters most to me.

Joyner, unless I am missing something, appears to be tying his yards per attempt (YPA) figures exclusively to blocking at the point of attack (POA). Obviously, any missed block at the POA is going to spell disaster for the play. Even Lynch in full-on Beast Mode is going to have a tough time gaining ground if a defender is waiting in the exact place Lynch is trying to run.

Adding Joyner’s numbers up we have a total of 380 rushes (250 for Lynch, 130 for Jackson), of which 133 included at least one poor/missed block at the POA. That translates to 35% of all rushing plays. Think about that for a second. Just over 1 out of every 3 running plays was doomed by a lineman who didn’t do his job. I’ll have to wait until I get home to check but, off the top of my head, I think that percentage is slightly below the overall combined bad run play percentage I got during the year. The reason for this is that I grade all of the blocks on every play, whether at the POA or not. Basically, linemen have a chance to screw up even if their blocks are away from the RB’s intended line of travel.

The plurality of bad blocks came from the center position. and Buffalo was committed to A gap running in 2008. Those two facts didn’t work out well together, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear that Joyner’s percentages for Fowler and Preston were abysmal. While I don’t know what Hang brings to the table, I do know that he’s not Fowler (is he even in the league anymore?) or Preston. It would be hard to imagine Hang doing worse than either Preston or Fowler…and I choose not to exercise my imagination in that vein.

Dock, who I had rated as a decent guard, was—according to Joyner—an okay guy (barely) to have at the POA. Buffalo dumped him and replaced him with a question mark. Unlike the center position, I do think it’s possible that the Bills could see at least an initial diminishment in LG play in 2009 as rookies learn their jobs. Over the long haul, however, we have to believe that Buffalo made the right choice and that Wood or Levitre will represent—at a bare bones minimum—a lateral move at a much cheaper cost. We are, of course, hoping that either Wood or Levitre represent a real upgrade even though we will undoubtedly have to witness some growing pains this season.

With Wood and Butler leading the way.

I was doing research on the top offensive lines in the NFL and ive notied that they arpredominately white. Now i am not racist, but i was jsut wondering why that is.

Cols, Pats, Giants all have predominatly white offensive lineman

Im jsut wondering is that coincidense?