Bills' Maybin, Schobel must rejuvenate historically bad pass rush
Back in late April, the Buffalo Bills made Penn State defensive end Aaron Maybin their first round choice in the 2009 NFL Draft. Considering the age of Buffalo's defensive ends (three are or will be 30 in the near future), the lingering foot injury of star DE Aaron Schobel, and the abysmal production of the Bills' pass rush over the prior two seasons (just 47 sacks in 2007 and 2008 combined), the Bills' decision to select a pass-rushing threat was not only the best possible decision, but probably long overdue.
There's a lot to like about the Bills' rookie pass-rusher, even if he's only got one solid year of college production, and even if there are serious question marks surrounding his ability to play the run consistently at the NFL level while weighing a light 250 pounds. We here at Buffalo Rumblings ranked Maybin the second-best defender available in the draft back in March, and we can also claim excitement over the fact that Maybin was our choice as Bills GM in the 2009 SB Nation NFL Mock Draft. We (and when we say "we", we mean the editorial staff here at Rumblings) thought highly of Maybin throughout the pre-draft process, and Buffalo's agreement with our "scouting" just piques our interest further.
Unfortunately for Maybin - and, likely, the Bills and its much-maligned coaching staff - the rookie will be asked to resuscitate a historically awful Bills pass rush along with now-healthy veteran Schobel, himself the recipient of many questions surrounding his possibly-declining skill set. While a much-improved pass rush is critical to the Bills' on-field fortunes in 2009 - particularly in the AFC East - Maybin and his cohorts won't have to do much to top last season's terrible statistical output.
2008: Buffalo's worst sacking season?
The "sack", a term coined by Rams Hall of Fame DL Deacon Jones, was not an official NFL statistic until the strike-shortened 1982 season. Throughout the 27 years that Bills players have officially recorded sacks, the team has fielded some prolific sack artists - with Hall of Fame DE Bruce Smith leading the way as not only the franchise leader in sacks, but the NFL's all-time leader in the category as well.
Last season, the Bills' leading sack artists were DE Ryan Denney and LB Kawika Mitchell, who tied to pace the team with four sacks apiece. The team itself registered just 23 quarterback sacks in its 16-game season. Ready for the bad news? Since the beginning of the sack, 2008 was easily Buffalo's worst season harrassing opposing quarterbacks.
You literally have to go all the way back to 1982 to find similarly low production. In that season, defensive ends Ben Williams and Sherman White led the Bills with - you guessed it - four sacks each. As a team, the Bills managed only a meager 12 sacks in '82. The catch? The Bills played just nine games as the league dealt with a 57-day players' strike. Sure, Buffalo had double that sack total in 2008, but they had a full season to get there.
More startling perspective
Only six times in team history - and again, that's since 1982 in the case of sack statistics - have the Bills finished with fewer than 30 sacks in a season. (Is 30 an unreasonable number? That's less than two sacks per game.) Three of those came in the early-to-mid '80s, when the sack was still a nascent statistical category and Bruce Smith was not yet on the team. Smith led the Bills in sacks as a rookie with 6.5 (a feat that Schobel matched in 2001), but Buffalo managed only 24 sacks in 1985. One came in 1994, Buffalo's big let-down season after four straight Super Bowl seasons. The other two? 2007 and 2008.
The team's 23-sack total was its lowest since the '82 season, and arguably the worst output in team history. Further, their 24 sacks in 2007 was matched by only the '85 Biils; that 2007 total was the second-lowest in team history - until the '08 Bills beat it out, of course.
2008 was only the seventh time in the last 27 years that the Bills' sack leader was not either Smith or Schobel. For seven straight years (2001 through 2007), Schobel led the Bills in sacks - a streak snapped when he missed eleven games due to injury and the combination of Mitchell and Denney paced the Bills in the category. In his 15 seasons in Buffalo, Smith was the Bills' leading sacker in all but two - he missed most of 1991 due to injury (Cornelius Bennett led the team with 9 sacks), and LB Bryce Paup led the team in sacks in 1995 with 17.5; Smith added 10.5. Add Mitchell and Denney, then, to a somewhat pedestrian group that includes Bennett, Paup, Williams, White, LB Darryl Talley and DE Marcellus Wiley as leading sackers sprinkled among the dominance of Smith and Schobel.
In the past 20 years (we'll shorten this to two decades for the time being), the Bills' leading sack artist has finished with 8 sacks or fewer five times. Four of those have come in the Schobel era - 2001 (Schobel - 6.5), 2004 (Schobel - 8), 2007 (Schobel - 6.5), and 2008 (Mitchell/Denney - 4). Smith recorded 7 sacks in his final season in Buffalo (1999).
2009 outlook
There you have it. In terms of avoiding having their names ranked amongst the franchise's least productive sack artists in a season, Maybin and/or Schobel don't have a lot of work to do in 2009 - mostly because 2008 was so terrible. Four sacks? Shouldn't be a problem if Maybin can be effective next to a healthy Schobel. We hope.
The team sack totals are the truly unacceptable stat. In a division that features all-world QB Tom Brady, the ever-efficient Chad Pennington and, most deliciously, very green rookie Mark Sanchez, pressuring the opposing quarterback is absolutely critical to the Bills fielding a successful team in 2009. It remains to be seen whether the Bills can increase sack production, or even - perhaps just as importantly - create any sort of non-sack pressure on its opponents next season. At a bare minimum, however, the Bills won't need to do much to improve on a 2008 season that was the least productive in team history.
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I thought Groundhog Day was February 2nd!
Historically bad is about right for this group. Even disregarding the sacks, they were never high on getting pressure on QB’s either.
Since the beginning of the sack, 2008 was easily Buffalo’s worst season harrassing opposing quarterbacks.
Haha, I wouldn’t say easily….2007 was just as pathetic and maybe worse if you consider Schobel was healthy for the entire season.
So the team’s pass rush the past few years (and probably longer) has compared to the pass rush of the ridiculously bad Bills teams of the early/mid 80’s? Yup, that seems about right. I think some of those comparisons say it all.
Just the utter horror of how bad this pass rush has been is why I was clamoring for more than just a Maybin addition. A healthier Schobel doesn’t add a ton, IMO, as evident by 2007. We’ve needed more than a single pass rush addition for years now and this year will be a “work in progress”, at best, at the position. There is a ton on Maybin’s shoulders, and there probably shouldn’t be yet. Relying on one rookie to solve the pass rush woes is asking for trouble.
Thanks for pointing out just how pathetic this pass rush has been, Brian. I’ve missed these discussion recently! I even feel like I don’t have much to add…how much more can be added to proof that this recent pass rush is the worst, or very close to it, in team history.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I don’t think the Bills are relying on one rookie. Sure, Maybin is the key, but we still have Copeland Bryan and Ellis who should be about ready to make some kind of impact. We also have a new defensive line coach who brings a different approach than the last few years. There’s been the whispers about McCargo’s improvement, I wonder what he can do with our younger defensive ends. Unless he comes up lame, I see Schobel getting about 10-12 sacks this year. Sacks and pressure are something the Bills need, and if we get them, the Bills have a top 10 defense. Without consistent pressure last year, we got low turnover totals, and still finished 13th in passing yds/gm allowed, and an amazing 4th in Passing td’s allowed. We only allowed 14 passing TD’s all year. Getting more sacks will generate more excitement and will bring the defense to the next level.
After reviewing the stats from last year, it seems that the Bills should be commended for not selling out to the blitz, despite our lack of sacks and pressure. I think the fact that they stuck to their game plans and stayed with a four man rush kept us in games. If they sold out to generate sacks, it could have cost us dearly. Clearly, though, with a chance to improve this offseason, the Bills took it. Hopefully we will be rewarded. If everything works out (arrghhh), we should be the proud fans of a top ten defense. Maybe a TB Bucs in their heyday (as long as that lasted) type defense. Our one weakness now, I think, is at linebacker. Hope we have a surprise or two up our sleeves for that position.
Egads, I hope we’re not relying on Copeland Bryan to make an impact. He’s spent three years in the NFL, bumping around off of practice squads and has a total of 1 career sack. And it wasn’t like he was a prolific pass rusher in college either – 14 sacks in 4 years of play.
Now hopefully, we see something from Ellis this year. We didn’t see anything last year, but a year in the NFL shoulda helped him some.
I think 10-12 sacks for Schobel is a bit much. He’s only recorded double digit sacks 3 times in 8 years and now he’s coming off an injury that may or may not be healed fully. I think 6-8 sacks is a more realistic aspiration. But, I agree, if we could someway, anyway to put some pressure on the QB, we very well could have a top 10 defense this year. Of course, the defense really wasn’t the problem last year, but an improved defense is certainly helpful.
If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...
If they sold out to generate sacks, it could have cost us dearly.
Or maybe it could have helped us get some more turnovers and in turn actually win some more games? We were 7-9, who cares if it would have cost us dearly!?!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Well, we could have been totally out of games instead of in almost every one. If you have to blitz to get to the QB, you’re better off staying back in your standard defense. That’s how the Bill’s managed to have a respectable pass defense sans sacks. They must have been doing something right. I wasn’t saying Copeland Bryan was going to save our pass rush, just that he might help contribute to the talent of the unit. He probably is a candidate to spell Schobel from time to time, right? If Bryan can do that, it helps Schobel stay healthy.
My point is that without a pass rush, we were 14th overall, 13th against the pass, 4th in passing TDs allowed. They must have been doing something right. Those numbers also prove that although sacks certainly are exciting, they certainly aren’t the be all and end all. Even with that, they just might be the piece we need to put us over the top. If Maybin can even SEEM like a threat, that frees up some space for the DTs’ to get to the QB, as well as Schobel. You are right that turnovers are the result of pressure, but they are also a result of desperation. I think we discussed this before – if our offense is better, it will help our defense. If we could bury some teams, we’ll get lots of turnovers as a result, maybe even from Whitner.
I think it is a scarier year for us if the pass rush doesn’t improve, for sure, but we will still win more games than last year. In the metrics that matter, Yards allowed and Pts allowed, the Bills made strides last year. With another year in the same system and a little more talent with Maybin on board, we should improve again. As much as the Bills defense may induce sleep, they do accomplish their goal of keeping us in games. Like it or not, we won’t have a shut down defense. It will be effective and flexible. With the changes on offense, it should be more than adequate, and may surprise. As I said before, I’m a little worried about our linebackers, more than the defensive ends. As far as going 7-9 last year, most of that can be pinned on the offense and Trent’s growing pains.
Copeland Bryan isn’t even going to make the team. He needs Chris Ellis to bust his way off the roster or one of the other DEs to end up on IR to be the 5th DE. Kelsay, Denney, Schobel, Ellis and Maybin don’t leave room for Bryan to be on the roster.
And you mentioned McCargo before, but he’s not a pass rusher. He was very unproductive getting to the passer in college and hasn’t shown anything at this level either.
Is there anyone out there right now that could help?
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
Help immediately? It appears not anyone worth forking over the money for. Peppers’ cost and desire to 3-4 it from here on out make him the most unattractive attractive attraction.
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 11, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a signing I'm in favor of but...
you asked, and Simeon Rice is still available and wants to play badly.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jun 11, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d bring him in for a tryout. We’d have nothing to lose, I mean if he sucks then we let him go, if he shows that he’s still good, then we can sign him and let og of Kelsey.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jun 14, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Somewhere in a secret lab below One Bills Drive...
“Eureka, Mr. Wilson, we’ve just successfully cloned Bruce Smith!!! Yes, he’ll be ready for the start of the 2009 season. Look out, NFL!!!
Get the Bills back to the big game!
and, most deliciously, very green rookie Mark Sanchez
Brian’s got a crush?
Penn Staters belong at Penn State. The problem with a lot of kids is they just don’t know they are Penn Staters yet. -jesse. @ BSD
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Jun 11, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions
If you mean “crush” in the sense that I would like to see Marcus Stroud literally sit on his face after sacking him, then yes.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 11, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Give him Conjunctivitis Marcus!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Something like that would certainly decrease his deliciousness, I would think.
Penn Staters belong at Penn State. The problem with a lot of kids is they just don’t know they are Penn Staters yet. -jesse. @ BSD
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Jun 11, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
uh.......
w0w
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 11, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it better to plug in Maybin more rather than less?
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
Probably
but I sure wouldn’t be one of them….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Neither would I. I think Orakpo will turn out to be a flop because of his work ethic. He’s got the talent, but no ethic to back it up. I’d much rather have Maybin, a guy who has ferther to go in order to be a start in this league, but is such a gym rat and practise guru that he’ll get there before Orakpo.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jun 14, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does that even matter at this point?
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 11, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't know
was just reading this post and was pondering if a bigger DE could have made a more immediate impact
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
Not really...
I like Maybin’s attitude, it will carry him far in this league.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jun 11, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions
if he has the production to match with it. otherwise he’s just another loudmouth in a league filled with them.
Loudmouth?
Is that all you think Maybin is right now? I understand how it can be twisted that way, but the reality is that he believes in himself and his abilities, he has the desire to get better, others see the desire in him (Ray Lewis doesn’t train with just anyone), and he is not afraid to put in the work to get there. Now, if all he does this year is talk w/ no production, then you may end being right, but if he gets 4-6 sacks and gets better as the year goes on and is that still going to be your opinion of him, simply a loudmouth? The statistical probabilities are that he is going to do more positive than negative…
by NorCal BillsFan on Jun 11, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
if he talks as much as he does and doesn’t back it up, he’ll be exactly what i said.
currently, he’s an OTA all-pro =) until you play the first game, no one is anything.
Where is this notion that Maybin is a talker that doesn’t shut up come from? Was it from an article where he talked about expecting to play well this year and getting a lot of snaps? It seems that this article was taken and “Maybin is a loudmouth” was produced….Am I missing something here?…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
There was an article by Chris Brown early on when he said that Maybin talked a lot, more than Royal, and Royal had talked a lot. That’s where it all started.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 11, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That wasn't Chris Brown...
It was someone from WGR. I think it was Joe Buttaglia.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 11, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
sacks
individual sack totals, to be a bit of devil’s advocate – are over hyped. great “sack artists” like bruce, reggie white, deacon jones, et al – are very rare.
how many times did the giants officially “sack” brady in the super bowl? 2 or 3? but harrassed the daylights out of him all game long. pressure, hands in the face, heat, no time to set, etc – are important as well. brady almost pulled a phillip rivers. was a joy to watch.
i’d also be curious to learn, league wide – how many sacks (%) take place when a team is leading, and the opponent is in obvious passing situations consistently. which, it is obvious to point out, the bills don’t do very often.
it all dove tails, in my opinion – more than counting on any one individual to be a “sack artist.”
I figured somebody would bust out the “sacks are overrated” argument. I’ll ask you this: aren’t sacks, at a bare minimum, an indication of the type of pressure you’re generating on quarterbacks?
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 11, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
slight nuance
yes, i agree – brian, and was just being a bit of devil’s advocate. and i don’t mean to parse semantics, but there might be a difference between “over-rated” and “over hyped.” sacks are a game changing play with a strip, etc – important, yes. over hyped when one individual racks up double digits, and is made out to be more than the success of the D side of the ball.
what i was trying to say – and i’m not a stat nut, so i’m trying to look it up – is team sacks as opposed to one phenomenal talent at that art, and when they occur.
good pressure, like the gints got against the pats in the super bowl, i think can be important, too, and i would like to think that the bills might have more of those opportunities if they can play from ahead just a bit more often.
by LeClaireBill on Jun 11, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, and no
yes, sacks are an END indication of the type of pressure generated.
i think the cart is before the horse here. sack is desert. lack there of doesn’t mean the steak sucked.
no, they are not the end all, “oh my god, we’ve gotta have a 15 sack a year DE,” be all that they are sometimes hyped to be.
all i am trying to say is that it all works together, a quality d backfield, a solid scheme, that makes the “sack artists” look so good.
i didn’t save the link, but i believe in one of his recent columns, Ryan Tucker made the assertion that most game changing, strip and fumble sacks, result from 0 line breakdowns, not some Superman DE effort.
by LeClaireBill on Jun 11, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
They are a manifestation of good pressure, yes, but sometimes the best sack is the sack not made. As evidenced by the team defensive stats, you can have a bad defense with lots of sacks, and a good one with few I see your point that good teams generally have more, and bad teams generally have less. It’s a lot more complicated than that. I think the Bills problem was the lack of situational pressure, and therefore a dearth of interceptions. Even though the Bills didn’t do much outside of adding Maybin, I think we’re in for a correction this year and the sacks / pressure should come. Maybe from Maybin, maybe from Schobel, maybe from Stroud, I don’t know who, but the pressure should come.
Maybe whatever good Bob Sanders is doing with McCargo is also helping the other guys. Schobel seemed to decline a little, just like everyone else along the defensive line, when Bill Kollar got here. Maybe that isn’t a coincidence.
Any more pressure we get would be moot if we didn’t have the DB’s to capitalize on it. I think the Bills knew that, and it really makes the Jairus Byrd pick make a lot of sense, if it didn’t already. Hopefully Byrd can ramp up quickly so maybe by mid-season we’re running Whitner / Byrd instead of Whitner / Scott. I also have a hunch we might get some playmaking out of Whitner this year.
Sack Predicions
How many will we get? I say 36 this year. I put 2.25 a game as my “hopeful” prediction. We need to see about 23-26 from our defensive linemen and 10-13 from our linebackers and secondary.
It's just a game.
makes you wonder where all those sacks are going to come from on the line. say stroud has a good year, that’s six or so. maybin does six, as a good rookie effort. schobel gets seven, let’s say – good number for an older DE. kyle williams gets two. that’s 21, factor in a few for the reserve players – between denney and the rest i can see five sacks on the season.
that’s all assuming that we have good play from everyone on the line. if maybin’s too small for a de position, schobel hurts himself, stroud doesn’t have a good year or hurts himself again…anything can totally crush those numbers because it limits the people that the o-line has to gameplan against.
I’m going to stand by my coments on DTs from last year, and the year before, and the year before…
By the way – nice Sherman White reference BG…
I’m hoping for a bunch here, but tis the season I guess. I’m hoping Stroud plays healthy all year, as well as happy. I think he was injured for much of last season, or at least hindered to a degree. His new contract has to make him happy.
I’m hoping McCargo makes a miraculous comeback from being a smuck to at least being a dependable substitute.
I want to see continued improvement from Williams. I think he’s an underrated gem. Also would very much like to see a little more from Spencer Johnson.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is that I don’t think it’s imperative that Schobel and the rook make huge contributuions. I think better DT play, specifically in the pass rush, will help all of the DEs.
What was the deal with these guys baggin on last years DL coach? Why the love-fest with Sanders and his karate man?
Sacks over the last five years Vs Quality DT Play
I think Krytime nailed it here. We let Pat Wiliams go, Sam Adams finally fizzled out and Larry Tripplet didn’t work. Lets look at the personnel at DT and compare to sack totals. I am thinking he is on to something. We bring in Stroud and Schoebel gets injured. Yes Marcus played mostly less than 100%. Its not like we haven’t tried to maintain quality at that position, but other than Williams Free Agency and the Draft really hasn’t helped in the last three to four years.
We really need the DE's and DT's to step up
Stroud and a rejuvenated McCargo for pass plays should help us, but Williams is NOT anything more than a good run stopper, we need that, but we also need some middle pressure.
Schobel HAS to be healthy for Maybin to even be a bit successful this year, we need someone to take away at least one extra blocker at some point on the line to hopefully give Maybin a chance. Ellis, well, even with the injuries last year he never stepped up before being sent to IR, he better be ready this year.
Honestly, the players we need more than Maybin or Schobel to make most of their blitzing opportunities are the LBers and Youbuty. Youbuty before he got hurt showed some real good CB blitz skills and that could be something we might want to take advantage of on the side of the field with Maybin, bring the two of them off the same corner and we could see some big mistakes being made by a panicing QB.
We’ll see once the real games start won’t we? Just as long as we get into the 30 range for the season, thats all I ask!!!
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
Hangartner will have more impact than Maybin when it comes to sacks
If the offense plays well and we are scoring TD’s, then it puts the defense in a better situation to get to the QB.
We cannot get sacks if the opposition are constantly running the ball. if we can get somes leads, control the clock, put points on the board then we will get more sacks and we will only do this if the O line gels quickly and plays well
Football. Bloody Hell!!
The Center Position
will have more of an impact than Maybin when it comes to sacks???? I’ve never heard anything more bizzare! I’m still trying to understand what logic you are attempting to make here. How does the offensive line have anything to do w/ the defense generating sacks and/or pressuring the QB?
If you are referencing that the O line needs to gel ASAP so the offense isn’t off of the field w/ a bunch of 3 & outs etc….. then I see to a degree where you might be coming from. A tired D line is unacceptable and can’t keep pressure on the QB.
But still – to say that our new center will have a greater impact in sacks than our newest pass rusher is just plain absurd IMO.
Season Ticket Holder Sec: 312, Row: 15
"There's NO place like home when it's the Big Tree Inn"
I think he meant that Hangartner will help prevent sacks for us and as a result be more important than Maybin’s sack total
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
BUT
our Pro Bowl LT “best in the league” w/ 11+ sacks credited in 2008 is GONE!!!!
Season Ticket Holder Sec: 312, Row: 15
"There's NO place like home when it's the Big Tree Inn"
all pieces
if the bills play from ahead more this year, they’ll get more sacks. simple as that.
i dont give a darn who gets them. if they are ahead by 10 and the opponent has to pass, fewell doesn’t have his hands so tied.
crikey. its not rocket science, but it does all tie together. last time i checked, its a team game.
Did any of us say otherwise here?
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 13, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions

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