Poll: Biggest Bills worry heading into 2009
by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 6:00 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintBuffalo Bills fans are worry warts. In a city that has not won a professional championship in any major professional sport since 1965 - but has come agonizingly close on several occasions - there's a tendency to feel a little jinxed. That feeling intensifies under the realization that the oh-so-close moments have been very few and far between up here.
So, naturally, hardcore fans of any Buffalo sports team - the Bills in particular - tend to pore over rosters, coaches, trends, and anything else that can tangibly (when we're lucky) get our hands on to find the weakness. The one spot that we can point to to destroy any and all positive feelings engendered by off-season moves and other pertinent exciting developments. Don't blame us. It's genetic.
Naturally, with so much time to kill before Bills training camp opens on July 25 - and with a full month under our belts post-draft to let the splashy signings and draft picks' hypnotic effects wear off completely - it's time to commence our favorite pasttime. (To those of you who make this a year-round endeavor - kudos. Your wills are steely.) We'll open the mini-series with a poll: which Bills entity do you see as the biggest potential stumbling block to a successful 2009 season? Your candidates...
Trent Edwards. Young quarterbacks are always worrisome, mostly because they're always streaky and inconsistent. Buffalo, to their credit, took major steps toward improving the talent around its third-year starting quarterback, particularly at the skill positions. But it's not exactly a secret that at the game's most important position, Edwards needs to make strides if the Bills hope to do likewise in the standings.
Turk Schonert. Taking over for former coordinator Steve Fairchild (known as SF-M in these parts) last season, Schonert guided his offense up the standings, but still struggled mightily in his rookie season as an NFL play-caller. He flashed brilliance calling plays at times; other times, he was as predictable as a J.P. Losman sack. Just like Edwards, Schonert needs to take some strides. The no-huddle offense could help him immensely in that area.
The offensive line. Jason Peters was traded. Derrick Dockery was unceremoniously released. Duke Preston and Melvin Fowler? "Departed as free agents." Langston Walker is the new left tackle, and college tackle/pro guard Brad Butler is now manning the right side. Three new players - Geoff Hangartner, Eric Wood and Andy Levitre - will take over blocking duties against the division's excellent 3-4 nose tackles. Change doesn't always have to be good...
The pass rush. It's been bad. For a while. We can kick and scream about the lack of playmaking all we want, but the reality of the situation is that little is likely to change in that department until the pass rush improves. Aaron Schobel? We hope you're right in saying there's plenty left in your proverbial tank. Aaron Maybin? We hope one year of college and an additional 15 pounds is enough.
Dick Jauron. Quick - name the most-used ace up the sleeve of "realistic" Bills fans all off-season. Oh yeah, here it is: "Dick Jauron is still our coach!" To say that owner Ralph Wilson's decision to retain Jauron in December after a third straight 7-9 season was wildly unpopular is an understatement. Jauron returns for a fourth season in Buffalo - a "make or break" season, without doubt. No matter how good or bad the team is in 2009, every decision Jauron makes will be scrutinized to the fullest.
Terrell Owens. Yeah, I know. Owens has been nothing but excellent three months into his one-year deal with the Bills. That's fantastic and all, but Owens has never blown up a locker room in three months, either - he's a patient man. Seriously, though, let's not pretend to think that Owens has changed. He hasn't. Things could go either very well or very not well; the likelihood of finding a middle ground is small. Owens was, and will remain, a gamble for this franchise.
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i had to choose one so i went for the Oline, but i think this is inseparable from Trent and Turk.
If just one of these is not upto scratch then none of them will perform. Also, i still tink it is too early to say that both the rookies will start in the middle versus the Pats, although they will both be there by mid season.
Football. Bloody Hell!!
So you don’t think Major Indoor Lacrosse is a professional sport!! At least we can say that Buffalo has won something.
Haha, I suppose it has “Major” in the title…
Yeah, the Bandits rule.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And if so, what about those prizes winners were suppossed to get last year?
I mean, yeah I won with Orton as my starting QB, but come on!
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
Don’t worry, I’ve won two years in a row now. I guess Brian’s just waiting for my third championship before getting the trophy engraved!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
This is a tough call
The O-line is the biggest question mark, but Edwards worries me the most. I think he will take a step forward this year, but if he returns to late season form ….. disaster. And not just from a wins and losses stand point. Players will lose faith in Edwards’ ability to lead the team, T.O. will blow, and Dick and Turk will start thinking about their next career move.
Why does this quote remind me of what it is like to be a Bills fan?
" It is impossible for words….to describe…what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror….horror has a face….and you must make a friend of horror...." – Marlon Brando
I voted for Turk...
Since he could singlehandedly overcome the other deficiencies….or singlehandedly blow up the others’ success.
I have faith he will be fine but no matter how good or bad the other guys on the list are he could turn it around – again in a good or bad way.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Voted for Turk here too.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought the no huddle would help Edwards mask Turks deficiencies by allowing Edwards to audible out of a bad play?
Why does this quote remind me of what it is like to be a Bills fan?
" It is impossible for words….to describe…what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror….horror has a face….and you must make a friend of horror...." – Marlon Brando
True, but Turk sure can make it easier on him or harder on him. Yes, it’s tied hand-in-hand with Trent’s development, but Turk has such a huge influence (either positive or negative) on Trent’s development.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It can… but how often is the no-huddle going to be used? Isn’t that up to Schonerti n the first place?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 17, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here.
I really think he needs to cater the offense to Trent and the weapons he has. He can’t make the players fit his system, He has to fit the system to the players he has; and he’s got some underachieving at times, but great players.
I think the offense will/must evolve throughout the season and it’s Turk’s job to do that.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Jun 17, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta be Trent
Every time he’s under center, my heart will race that he is doing the right thing, and doing it successfully. Turk and the O-Line are ?s, but its Trent that i am worried about.
The Bills CAN win any game
It was either trent or the o-line...
I went with the o-line. They are young and new to their assigned positions, i see promise but it may be a lot to ask for them to protect against some really strong pass rushes this year.
As long as Trent is ok this year and the o-line begins to mesh we will have much less holes going into next years offseason. We could address the LB hole and a replacement for TO and we would have a team on our hands that could really go deep in the season.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
Linebackers
If it was a choice, I would have picked linebackers. Otherwise, I will say the O-Line. Trent Edwards will be fine if they are.
I just had a thought about the linebackers – if the D-Line improves, maybe our linebackers will look better than they have over the last couple years as far as actually making plays.
How many games did our defense or linebackers cost us?
The Niners game, Dolphins game, Jets game… all offense
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 17, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
If Edwards plays well ... i.e. gets rid of the ball quickly and on time.... Edwards will make the line look better by
not requiring them to block as long. This year is all about Trent.
Why does this quote remind me of what it is like to be a Bills fan?
" It is impossible for words….to describe…what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror….horror has a face….and you must make a friend of horror...." – Marlon Brando
I think its a tie btw...
Offensive line and defensive line. It all comes down to the question of whether we can generate pressure on the opposing qb and protect our own. Without being able to do any of those its going to be a looong season. I have hope for the oline, but no one really know what we are going to get. I guess the D-line is a bit more concerning because we know what we have and it hasn’t developed the needed pressure ever since Dick Jauron took over. Our only hope is that Schobel can return to form and Maybin can generate pressure on thirds downs.
Don't forget to pay the troll toll...
I wanted to vote for all of them except TO.
I chose pass rush (obviously). I believe it’s nearly impossible to win without a quality pass rush. It sets the table for the rest of the D’s success. I think a team can be a winner with mediocre QB play and OL play if their defense steps up and wreaks havoc.
I just don’t think our pass rush will be what we need this year. It should be improved (and better be), but we’re hoping an aging 32 year old with foot problems and a rookie can cure all our woes. That’s very worrisome.
The OL needs to gel quickly as well. That’s almost as worrisome.
The coaching will always be an issue. I’m not as worried about it because I don’t think it will ever be that good under this regime. Better to hope they are at least competent than it is to hope they are excellent just to be realistic.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Better to hope they are at least competent than it is to hope they are excellent just to be realistic.
My concern with the coacing (I voted for Schonert) is not thinking they’ll be excellent overall, but that even if they’re merely competent overall, they’ll still have those horrendous blunders that break 3-4 games.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
But a team can overcome it's pass rush by having great QB play, too.
Which is more likely this year? An improved pass rush or improved QB play??? :-)
I think a team can be a winner with mediocre QB play and OL play if their defense steps up and wreaks havoc.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 17, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
if their defense steps up and wreaks havoc.
I would settle for making QBs mildly uncomfortable…..that would be an improvement.
Why does this quote remind me of what it is like to be a Bills fan?
" It is impossible for words….to describe…what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror….horror has a face….and you must make a friend of horror...." – Marlon Brando
Brian!!!
I’m calling you out, man. What did you vote for and why?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 17, 2009 10:28 AM EDT reply actions
Edwards. I would have thought that was obvious. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
He is your biggest worry...
just because you think we can live by his greatness or die by his terribleness, right?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 17, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If you don’t have a quarterback, you can’t do anything; if you’ve got a quarterback, you can do anything.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Offense Sells tickets, Defense wins championships
quote of eternity
It's just a game.
by jj24 on Jun 17, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Silly statement
Winning sells tickets. Championships are won with the best combination of offense, defense, and ST.
Exceptions to the rule.
I just want to remind you that Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, Eli Manning won a Super Bowl being good for a short time, and Frank Reich, a career backup, ochestrated the greatest comeback in NFL history.
It's just a game.
There are always exceptions to any rule. I’m not looking for a flash in the pan. I want a consistent winner.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I just have the feeling Trent doesn’t have the ability, physically or mentally, to carry a franchise on his back the way Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger can.
Maybe it’s becasue he’s handcuffed by being a Bill. Maybe Trent isn’t what will prevent the Bills from being a winner, but rather, the Bills will hold Trent back from being a winner. Who knows? I just don’t see it.
I’m not saying I’m absolutely right. Just that I don’t see it. With a laundry list of potential concerns, how can we expect to field a consistent winner?
It's just a game.
I just have the feeling Trent doesn’t have the ability, physically or mentally, to carry a franchise on his back the way Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger can.
And that didn’t prompt you to vote for him in the poll?
Maybe Trent isn’t what will prevent the Bills from being a winner, but rather, the Bills will hold Trent back from being a winner.
That’s not how it works. The Colts SUCKED before Manning got there. There are countless other examples of the same effect. Good quarterbacks equal good teams. If Edwards has “it”, the Bills will become a good team.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The Falcons went from terrible to playoffs with Matt Ryan as a rookie. Why? They had a good team, that’s why. When Manning was a rookie the Colts sucked. Why? They had a crappy team, that’s why
To be successful a team needs quality players and coaches. The ratio can be unbalanced toward one or the other, but neither can be below average. The Bills don’t have enough quality players or coaches to be consistently good this season.
And that didn’t prompt you to vote for him in the poll?
Yes, quarterback is the most important position on a football team. Yes, the best defense is a good offense. However, with tempered expectations of Trent’s success this coming season, a lot of onus goes on the players who perform when Trent isn’t on the field.
Using the past two seasons as a measuring stick, the pass rush needs to step up big time. As K said, we’re relying on a resurgence from Schobel and an impressive rookie season from Maybin. Those sound like even longer shots than Trent getting “it”.
It's just a game.
The Bills don’t have enough quality players or coaches to be consistently good this season.
Thats opinion – I feel they have enough quality to be good this season – which is my opinion.
As K said, we’re relying on a resurgence from Schobel and an impressive rookie season from Maybin. Those sound like even longer shots than Trent getting "it".
I personally couldn’t disagree more – Schobel at least has a history of success in the NFL.
Finding a quarterback or developing a quarterback that has the “it” factor is very very difficult. Its one of the things that all NFL teams pine for year in and year out. Finding that guy that will lead you to the playoffs or a championship is the key to all franchises. To me – finding a QB with the “it” factor is the single toughest thing to get in the NFL.
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
by J2 on Jun 17, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I personally couldn’t disagree more – Schobel at least has a history of success in the NFL.
Schobel has 7.5 sacks in his last 21 games.
It's just a game.
Exactly
His history suggests that he won’t even be a 6-7 sack guy anymore, even if he does stay healthy….
Who really cares what he did 3-4 years ago when he’s proven lately to not be the same player and is coming off a fairly significant injury?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
thats not what I was saying…
he said that Trent having the “it” factor was more likely than Schobel and Maybin providing more consistent pass rush.
I disagree with that – I think its more likely that our pass rush improves before Trent has the “it” factor.
thats all i was saying – Schobel has done it – yes he’s not his former self but we’ve seen him do these things – we’ve barely seen Trent do anything against good competition
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
by J2 on Jun 17, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Chargers?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 18, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
u mean when they were 3-4?
then they went on to play.
NO and lost
beat KC
lost to Pittsburg
lost to Indy, ATL
then went on to beat these sisters of the poor: Oak, kc, tb and denver?
yeah – the chargers
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
They are still a good defense.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 18, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
i see a lot of Buffalo Bill type victories there.
well their an “ok” defense
gave up 26 to carolina, 39/21 to denver, 29 to the jets, 37 to NO, 23 to indy, 23 to buff, 22 to ATL, 21 to kc (better than us) and even 24 to TB.
thats 10 games allowing over 20 pts per game out of 16. i’m not sure how good they are.
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
Haha, the Falcons? Good team? They had a terrible defensive line – John Abraham was their entire pass rush. Their back seven was aging. Their offensive line was shaky. They do have some talent, particularly Turner and White, but don’t sell Matt Ryan short. He’s a very, very good quarterback.
And my point isn’t that you need THE BEST quarterback, or even arguably the best, to win. You just need one that’s consistently good and flashes excellence. Edwards can be that player.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The Falcons had 34 sacks. John Abraham had 16 sacks last season. The Bills had 24. Ugh!
I’m not selling Ryan short. My point there was even a good quarterback needs a good team(especially coaching).
And my point isn’t that you need THE BEST quarterback, or even arguably the best, to win. You just need one that’s consistently good and flashes excellence. Edwards can be that player.
I’ll concede your point. Trent has enough of “it” to be a quarterback for a winning team.
Therefore, maybe the coaches should be our biggest concern. They’re going to have to put Trent and our defense in the position to win. Since the Bills haven’t had a winning season under the current regime, there should be reason to worry about their ability to win.
This debate has helped me realize that the Bills major concerns in this order should probably be:
1. Coaches (e.g. crappy parents have crappy children)
2. Trent
3. Pass Rush
4. Langston Walker
It's just a game.
But look at the Saints last year with Brees. And look at the Broncos with Cutler. These are two of the very best QBs in the league right now. How did their teams do?
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Again… there are exceptions to any rule. If there were a cut and dry way to build a winner, there’d be a hell of a lot less job turnover in the NFL, not to mention every other professional sport out there.
The Broncos and Saints underachieved because they had two of the worst defenses in the league – oh, and little to no running game.
The point isn’t that a good quarterback means you’re guaranteed a playoff spot. It means that you’ve settled the most difficult position to settle. That’s why good defensive teams with bad quarterbacks (this is where the Dilfer argument comes in) can win championships.
Clearly, you have to have a good team to win. But the quickest way to get there is having a good quarterback.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
My point in mentioning the Saints and the Broncos is to suggest that your rule may not be so cut-and-dried, because there appear to be an awful lot of exceptions, as others have pointed out.
I’m suggesting that what others have put forth as a rule (“defense wins championships”) may be a more appropriate rule, and that Petyon Manning’s one SuperBowl win is an exception to that rule.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
But why does “you need a quarterback” have to compete with “defense wins championships”?
Like I said. Nothing is cut and dried. It’s true that you can win in this league without top-flight QB play, but it will never happen consistently. Teams like Carolina and Baltimore have yo-yo’d every year because their quarterbacks, historically, have been awful, while their defenses have been solid (beyond solid, in Baltimore’s case).
If you ask any NFL head coach if they’d prefer a great QB or a great defense, and I’m betting most would take the quarterback.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell that to Archie Manning
That’s Peyton’s dad for those not in the know. Archie played for a losing franchise his whole career, but he was arguably the best QB of his era.
But Brian was smart enough to qualify his statements with “The point isn’t that a good quarterback means you’re guaranteed a playoff spot. It means that you’ve settled the most difficult position to settle.”
I still feel sorry for the Archie Mannings of the NFL, though…
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Same reason I voted for Trent. My reasoning:
You can have a mediocre o-coordinator (see: 2007 Giants), a mediocre o-line (see: 2008 Cardinals), a mediocre/bad pass rush (see: 2006 Colts), or mediocre/bad coach (see: 2002 Raiders) and still win. But the key to all of those teams is that they had good to great QB play.
Sure you can go thru history and find exceptions on both sides of the coin. But the simple fact of the matter is that most of those other things to worry about aren’t going to change dramatically enough.
Turk – Yeah, I worry a little bit about him. But he wasn’t SFM bad, and if Trent isn’t any good, it doesn’t matter how good or bad Turk is.
O-line – It was horrendous last year. Why worry about it this year? At least there’s the possibility of improvement and hell, it can’t be any worse.
Pass rush – Yes, a dominant pass rush/defense can carry a team. But the Bills pass rush isn’t going to be dominant this year, and we shouldn’t expect it to be. We should hope for improvement. And the smigen of improvement that might occur won’t be large enough to have a dramatic effect on the Bills win-loss record. The success of the Bills isn’t going to be determined by a few extra sacks this year. Besides, it also can’t be any worse than last year.
Dick – He’s not going to get any better. He is what he is – a mediocre-to-bad coach. Why worry about it? He’s going to make mistakes – a lot of them – so just plan on them occurring and move on with life.
Trent – Now, here, there is enough potential in his individual improvement to have a drastic effect on the Bills overall improvement. So he is what I worry about. If he’s much better, the Bills are much better. If he’s not, then it’s a decade without the playoffs and most likely another regime change.
It’s on Trent. All other deficiencies can be masked by good QB play.
If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...
by thatguy34 on Jun 17, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll hand it to you, thatguy34, that’s probably the best-reasoned argument I’ve read on here, not so much for the generalization at the end but for the likely effect on the 2009 Bills season. Rec’d.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
2007 Giants
Eli was quite average in 2007. I think they had an opportunistic defense that came together for their run to the super bowl. Without it, the Giants would have stunk, no matter how good Eli played.
It’s on Trent. All other deficiencies can be masked by good QB play.
How many Super Bowls did Marino win in how many years of playing? You need to live as a team and die as a team. If our offense and defense play with confidence, and play to their ability, we win, otherwise we lose. I think the reverse of your statement is true. I think great play from your supporting cast can mask deficiencies in your quarterbacking. The key is to have as many options as possible.
If you can’t run, pass. If you can’t pass, it’s up to the defense and ST. The key is to adapt. From game to game different options will be available, it’s up to the Bills to adapt and learn. If they don’t it’s gonna be a long year.
Eli was quite average in 2007
Except for the playoffs when he completed 61% of his passes, threw 6 TDs and only 1 INT, and had a QB rating of 95.7…oh, and there was that whole Super Bowl MVP thing.
How many Super Bowls did Marino win in how many years of playing?
Only something like 28 QB’s have won the Super Bowl. Dan Marino has a career winning pct. of 61%. Dan Marino carried many a team. Not to mention you’re pointing to one great QB and making the argument that because he didn’t win a Super Bowl, QB isn’t as important of a position than it really is.
If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...
I disagree. We need Trent to not make mistakes. We need Trent to be upright for 15-16 games. We do not need him to be Dan Marino. Are you really worried that he’ll regress? All the data suggests he’ll take a step forward. Heck, if Turk calls the game just a little different, Trent does a lot better last year, even with the lack of prowess at wide receiver (outside of Lee Evans). I think Turk and Trent learned a lot about each other last year, and we will benefit from that this year. With the amount of change as a whole on the offensive side of the ball, I see that we’ll improve but not as much as we were looking for.
How would Trent be more of a worry than the offensive line? I have trouble understanding that sentiment. I know you believe the QB position is the most important, and agree with you, but if there was a pie chart of importance, It would be Offense 40%, Defense 40%, Special Teams 20% (give or take). So in the offensive piece, if you split out that 40%, you’d break it down – O-Line (20%, 4% per man), Skills WR, TE,RB (10%), QB 10%. So the QB, by himself, is the most individually valuable piece, but if you have issues on the O-Line, he can’t do his job. QBs cannot make a team on their own. As much as a great QB can take over a game, even the great ones also disappear from time to time, especially in the playoffs. We’re much better off if we get collectively better, not just Trent. People pay a lot of attention to QB’s, but the best QB’s are usually sitting at home when Super Bowl Sunday comes around.
We need a good QB, which I think Trent will be, not a great one, and if we fail, it definitely won’t sit on the shoulders of Edwards. Trent Edwards and the offense will only dictate how good our defense needs to be. If he’s awful to average, we need to sit tight and hope our defense is lights out. If he’s good to great, we can breath a little easier not having to rely on Whitner & Co.
It’s all relative, and if you look at the teams that won Super Bowls, they for the most part are the top in either offense or defense. And the winner of the Super Bowl is usually the team that’s better at their “Thing”.
2000 – Ravens #1 Team Defense over Giants #5 Team Defense
2001 – (Exception, sort of) Pats #6 D//# 6 O over Rams #7 D / #1 O ( must be the film study)
2002 – Bucs #1 D (By a lot) over Raiders #2 offense (The TB Bucs allowed 3 pts per game less than the #2 team defense)
2003 – Pats #1 D over Panthers #10 D (both teams were middling on offense at #12 and #15 respectively)
2004 – Pats #4O / #2D defeated Eagles #8O / #3D
2005 – Steelers #9O / #4 D defeated Seahawks #1O / #7 D (NFC West easier than AFC North?) Defense more important than offense?
2006 – ODD! Colts #2O / #23D over Bears #3 O / #3 D (Still AFc tougher? Bob Sanders return for the playoffs? Rex Grossman turning into, you know, Rex Grossman?)
2007 – Giants :) #14 O / #17 D over Pats #1 O / #4 D (This gives us hope, right? I think the Pats got a little away from the fundamentals and it cost them. And David Tyree caught a ball on his helmet. Go SU.
2008 – Steelers #23 O / #1 D over Cardinals #4 O / #28 D (Finally back to normal.)
From this little study I guess if you’re good (Top 10) on both sides of the ball and really great on one of them (Top five, especially in defense) you have a good chance of getting to and winning the super bowl. If you’re mediocre at one, you still have a chance if you are #1 on the other side. It did show me one thing – you need to be near league best on at least one side of the ball to get to the promised land, or you can be the 2007 Giants!
There is definitely a correlation between your level of dominance on one side of the ball or the other and your chances of making it through the playoffs. Most dominant “Thing” wins, I guess, most of the time.
I disagree. We need Trent to not make mistakes. We need Trent to be upright for 15-16 games. We do not need him to be Dan Marino. Are you really worried that he’ll regress?
Agreed. As I’ve said many times, we don’t need Edwards to be a world-beater. It’s only his third season. We need him to be consistently good; we need him to be assertive; and we need him to put a personality stamp on this team.
If Trent can deliver that, this will be a playoff team.
My point was never to say you need a Tom, Peyton or Ben running your team to be good. You just need a good quarterback, one that can make plays, play well in clutch situations (I think Trent has shown that in particular), and not cost you games. You don’t need a dominant statistical player – just ask Chad Pennington, a QB that’s been to the playoffs four times.
That said, the team goes nowhere if 2008 Trent Edwards is on the field next year. That’s my point here.
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by Brian Galliford on Jun 17, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
How would Trent be more of a worry than the offensive line? I have trouble understanding that sentiment. I know you believe the QB position is the most important, and agree with you, but if there was a pie chart of importance, It would be Offense 40%, Defense 40%, Special Teams 20% (give or take). So in the offensive piece, if you split out that 40%, you’d break it down – O-Line (20%, 4% per man), Skills WR, TE,RB (10%), QB 10%. So the QB, by himself, is the most individually valuable piece, but if you have issues on the O-Line, he can’t do his job.
I’m not going to argue arbitrary percentage points of importance. But, we agree QB is the most important, and I never said that the o-line wasn’ t important. QB is the most important position, we still have a question mark at that position, so that’s the position I’m MOST worried about.
If he’s awful to average, we need to sit tight and hope our defense is lights out.
This is exactly the point I was making. Trent has the most potential impact on our season, because he plays the most important position, and he has the highest individual ceiling of any of the “worry” positions. A lights out defense can carry a team, but adding Aaron Maybin isn’t going to make us lights out…at least not this year. Our D is going to be average again, so I’m not going to fret over it. Trent has the most pull, so I fret over it.
If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...
What did you vote for and why
you can just click on his name and see who he voted for – :)
but that doesn’t help with the explanation part of it.
I went with Edwards as well….
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
I am aware of the features of SBNation. :-)
I wanted the explanation part… which he failed to provide.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 17, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Brian provided it...
as you know.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jun 17, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Trent Edwards- hurry up, TO, and Lee
Turk Schonert- Not rly a problem
The offensive line Hurry up will help them a lot
The pass rush Our biggest worry be the pass rush because even if everything else is good, if we cant rush the passer, our season is over
Dick Jauron- not really
Terrell Owens
no worry whatsoever
It's Like Rooting For The Toilet To Flush....
Didn't we go 5-1 at the start of last year with a defense that, on paper at least, is better this season than last season?
Clearly our season went south when Edwards got hurt. I’m not saying our pass rush was good or that I wouldn’t like to see it improve, but we already proved last year we could win with the defense we had if Edwards was on his game.
Why does this quote remind me of what it is like to be a Bills fan?
" It is impossible for words….to describe…what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror….horror has a face….and you must make a friend of horror...." – Marlon Brando
I voted pass rush. I don’t think it’s fair to say we did enough to improve there. I hope we’re good enough to get 35 sacks, but I really doubt it.
The only concern I have for Trent is his health. I think he has enough help around him to play decent and win us games. If he goes down……I don’t want to think about it.
The offesnsive line needs to prove itself. We have no starters returning to the same position. Enough said Saying more anyway, Walker actuallly worries me the most, right now.
As far as the coaches go: see Kurupt above. 6/17 9:55am
It's just a game.
Buffalo Bills Fans are worry warts.
Thats me in a nut shell. Trying to recall the last ten years isn’t that difficult. I still believe in the Titan playoff game that Johnson was the right choice at QB and that it was a forward pass not a latteral in that final franchise breaking kick off return that eliminated us from the post season which eventually left the titans one yard short of winning the superbowl against the rams in one of the most exciting super bowls ever played. Only other thing that sticks out is the no goal in the stanley cup playoffs against the Stars. Since then we have criticized every quarterback that has worn a bills uniform. We have been limited in play makers on both sides of the ball and our coaching staff has been a turnstile. The three main things that jump out at me in order of defficiencies are 1.) An offensive line that can run block and pass block consistently. 2.) A pass rush that can’t be defended and 3.) Play calling by the appropriate coach.
I have always reserved judgement on our QB’s because we couldn’t protect them in passing situations and couldn’t run the ball on running downs. That to me is poor offensive line play.
Also, I remember the first game that Corneilus Bennet played, he raised havoc with the broncos and John Elway and let Bruce Smith clean up the mess. When Aaron Schobel was in his prime we still couldn’t find a compliment for him on the other side.
Finally, the play calling, when will we be able to stop out smarting the the other team by calling plays that contradict what we should be calling. Last years jets game.
This is why I worry. Last years defense was slightly above average statistically minus a team sack number that would have made a huge difference, pressure on the quarter back, I think we will be okay here. Play calling, we lost 9 games again last year but a handful of those could of and should of gone our way if we had playmakers to pull them off. I also, think we will be okay here.
This brings us back to the offensive line. One of the areas that over the last 9 years has been very inconsistent in moving the ball down the entire field not just between the 20’s. This was my vote because of all the moving around plus the addition of this years youth movement. This area needs to solidify in camp and be strong, all the other pieces are in place. Giving the defense an extra five minutes of sideline duty each game will pay cudos in the fourth period and the play makers are in place even without Owens, but he sure does help.
HAS to be the O-line
As humans we worry most about unknowns, and the O-line is definately that. We are playing two guys “out of position” or at least not their natural pro postion in Walker and Butler, we are hoping our answer at center is a career backup, and have extremely high expectations for two rookie guards.
If this line can play average I would be happy. I am not worried about Trent, he will be o.k., but probably not spectacular. Turk and Jauron will continue to underwhelm, but not to the significant detriment to the team. Our O-line on the other hand could be a complete disaster. I have nightmares of Walker being blown up play-after-play by the better pass rushers in the league and Butler being a sacrificial lamb, left to his own devices on the right side.
My only other concern is the need for a pass catching TE, I am surprised that didn’t make the list?
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on Jun 17, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions
Trent 1st O-line 2nd
It is definitely Trent with a big assist to the offensive line. My biggest concern is Trents ability to stay healthy for all 16 games. With that said, the O-line will have an significant impact on Trents healthiness this season. 12 or 13 starts is not good enough for a team trying to break into the playoffs in a competitive division.
A funny stat about pass rush and turnovers from 2008.
Dallas Cowboys
59 sacks
22 turnovers forced
Buffalo Bills
24 sacks
22 turnovers forced
These stats baffle me. The only variable I can think of to explain this is quality of competition.
It's just a game.
You got me wanting to play around with this.
Last year the average NFL team had an average of 32.4 sacks and 30.2 forced fumbles and interceptions (what I’ll call turnovers). The Bills had 24 and 25 respectively. When I plotted this out it came up with a trend line that looks something close to this:
Season turnovers = 24 + (.5*(sacks)).
So if you have 32 sacks you would expect to generate 40 turnovers for the season. Said another way, for every additional 2 sacks the Bills generate this year over last year they should get 1 extra turnover as a result.
Based on the Bills sacks they should have forced more turnovers, but as it was they ended up recovering more forced fumbles than normal (80%).
And since you mentioned Dallas, they was a big outlier on the chart… they should have generated about 10 more turnovers than they did.
(Someone with real math skills could probably be more accurate and take the analysis a lot further).
I dont mind using the old wrinkly ACE.......
because if you pair it up with a Face it still comes out as a blackjack……..
Dick Jauron…..is and will forever be my answer. It starts at the top. (And Ralph wasnt a choice lol)
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 17, 2009 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
As I mentioned above, I don’t think there’s any reason to be worried about Jauron. As J from Ohio pointed out, we worry about unknowns. There’s nothing unknown about Jauron. He isn’t a very good coach. He’s going to make mistakes and he’s probably going to cost us a game or two because of those mistakes. What I worry about is whether the team (namely Trent) can overcome the glaring weakness in the coaching staff.
If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...
Well then I guess I didnt make myself clear.......
Im more worried that Jauron might do well enough to stay……but not well enough to get us over this hump we’ve been on.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 17, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, this is a great poll. Even though the Oline has a huge majority of votes, all of the other positions/people listed (except TO) garnered a significant number of votes.
What this says to me is that there are still a lot of perceived weaknesses on this Bills team.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
What this says to me is that there are still a lot of perceived weaknesses on this Bills team
absolutely
however, very true for pretty much every NFL team
NE – aging defense, will the tackles hold up, how’s TB’s knee?
Pitt – Is the offensive line going to hold up, WR corp good enough?
Indy – defense good enough? o-line good enough?
etc….
I think every team has question marks – I don’t think there’s a team out there that can avoid questions such as these
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
by J2 on Jun 17, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
however, very true for pretty much every NFL team
I think what surprised me was that there are five people/positions that are perceived variously as the biggest question mark. That surprised, more than just a few questions here or there.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m sure you could find 5 for almost any team.
take NE for example:
aging defense, tom’s knee, loss of coordinators, tackles, DB position in flux.
thats 5 legitimate concerns for NE right there.
let’s go with indy (i’m trying to pick good/decent teams)
o-line, 3rd wr, d-line, loss of coordinators but are now consultants, HC loss
thats just the nature of it as I see – especially as fans that pay a lot of attention to the teams.
Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film
by J2 on Jun 17, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Your point is well-taken, although with the good teams, when many of the biggest worries have been the same year after year and it hasn’t seemed to affect them much, it’s hard to call them the biggest worry.
For example, for NE it’s GOT to be Brady’s knee, because all the others that you list have been weaknesses in the near past that they’ve continually and successfully overcome.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jun 17, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully we’ll actually make your defense break a sweat this year. You guys could have had the Boston JV All-stars playing defense for the last five years and probably would have still beaten us.
It's just a game.
A lot of new guys this year, with the veterans playing different (and hopefully stepped-up) roles
The cornerbacks look pretty good on paper, but after last year’s debacle in the backfield I’m taking a wait-and-see approach before I start getting too attached to the newcomers. Training camp and pre-season will tell so much more.
Keep the faith!
Nice pick up with McKenzie in the draft by the way. I was hoping we would have picked him. I read an article linked on your site about him and his unfortunate circumstances growing up and it made me like him even more.
It's just a game.
how can't you root for a character guy like that?
His season-ending injury on a seemingly harmless, pad-less play too, was such a bummer — I felt so bad for the guy.
Keep the faith!
I voted for O Line..
But the pass rush is just as much of a concern to me..If there’s no rush,and we really don’t have that from what I can see,then the other team holds onto the ball and that changes the way the Offense has to operate..O Line has so many changes that it’ll take time for them to gel,and that alone could have Trent fighting for His life and likely injured before it all comes together..D Line is pathetic though with just Stroud and maybe some flashes of brilliance from Maybin..I’m hoping they can pick up a free agent to fill the void at D Tackle..
by FanFromThe80s on Jun 17, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions
I voted OL
but something else that worries me is thinking that the Owens situation might mirror what happend to the Jets with Favre. He may become relied-upon, then fizzle out and be 1 and done in B-lo.
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 18, 2009 6:59 AM EDT reply actions
I had to vote for the O line, too
It’s probably the most difficult thing in football to get 5 guys coordinated to working together as one unit…
Get the Bills back to the big game!
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