Buffalo Rumblings: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Follow the @sbnation NFL Twitter List

Evans, Owens and Edwards




One thing this off-season which has to be on the minds of just about every fan, analyst, and fantasy jock of the NFL has been what kind of production we will see in Buffalo this year between Lee Evans and Terrell Owens, and thus indirectly, young signal caller Trent Edwards. Most NFL analysts seem to think that the best we should hope for is about 65-85 catches, 900-1,000 yards and 6-8 TDs from TO and 55-70 catches, 700-900 yards and 5-7 TDs from Evans. On the other hand, most Bills fans appear to be divided about 50/50 between those who expect around the same and those who expect great production from both. After reading kaisertown's recent post in which he briefly discussed how many may be disappointed by TOs performance this year I got to really thinking about what I should expect from our offense, namely our two star receivers and QB. I've decided to go out on a limb and declare something which could very well have me eating a lot of crow at the end of the year since I'm dedicating a whole post to it but whatever: Terrell Owens and Lee Evans will each exceed 1,000 yards receiving and each will have double digits scores or be very very close to it. Before you say I'm crazy hear out my long winded explanation.

To begin with, let's talk about last year's offense. Last year the Bills passed the ball on 52% of our offensive snaps, demonstrative of Turk Schonert's balanced playcalling with the personnel he saw on the field. I don't think it takes a genius to notice that in 2008, the Buffalo Bills were far more talented in the running game then in the passing game. Schonert went into the season seeing he had guards like Dockery and Butler (and was subsequently let down) and a solid o-line and running backs Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson compared to Evans, a young QB and a host of very bland pass catchers through the air. Despite this talent discrepancy, the 52% passing plays called should demonstrate that Turk Schonert is at heart a guy who wants to attack through the air. With Terrell Owens on board and not knowing what he has on the interior of the line Schonert should push that percentage higher in 2009. By taking a look at teams that had multiple receiving threats in the air  we can see what we can reasonably expect: Arizona passed 65% of the time, Cincinatti 55%, Cleveland 54%, Dallas 58%, Denver 62%, Houston 56%, Green Bay 53%, and the New York Jets 56%. If we average those teams out we hit 57%. With Marshawn Lynch sitting out three games, TO demanding the ball and playing a tough schedule that will have us in highly competitive games I don't think its unreasonable to expect us to throw the ball about 55-59% of the plays called.

Now let's look at Trent Edwards in 2008. During the '08 season Edwards attempted 374 throws, completing 65.5% of them for 245 completions. If Trent Edwards can stay healthy his number of attempts should increase on their own but if you throw in the factors of a likely increase in the amount our offense takes to the air, the no huddle offense we plan to unveil, the Lynch suspension, the high quality of opponents and the extension of drives by an improved offensive unit is it to preposterous to expect around 500 attempts from Edwards in his third season? Before you go haywire understand that the natural development of QBs is to trust them more and allow them to throw more with each passing season. Not only that, 500 attempts will not turn us into a high octane passing attack. High octane offenses are quaterbacked by guys like Tom Brady who in 2008 attempted well over 500 passes going for 578 passes. In 2008 Drew Brees attempted 635 and in 07 he attempted 655, in 08 Peyton Manning threw 555 times, Kurt Warner hit 598 in 08, Aaron Rodgers 559 in 2008, Tony Romo in 13 games tossed it 450 times in 2008, Donovan McNabb 571 in 08, Carson Palmer threw it 575 times in 07 and Jay Cutler took to the air 616 times in 08. If you think I'm comparing passer friendly teams then consider that even Joe Flacco, in the uber conservative approach of the Baltimore Ravens who ran the ball the most in the league and on 58% of their called offensive plays still threw the ball 428 times! Expecting around 500 attempts is really not that crazy if Edwards remains healthy considering our firepower.

Now, an opinion many like to cite is that Lee Evans will not be able to put up big numbers with Terrell Owens in town namely because there simply aren't enough balls to go around between the two of them and that TO demanding the ball will leave fewer opportunities for Evans. I think rather than seeing Evans opportunities take a steep decline, TOs presence in fact will result in a major crashing back to Earth for Josh Reed, despite many opinions that he will flourish with two star targets to open things up for him. In 2008, Schonert and Edwards rarely got the ball to the other receivers outside of Buffalo's number 1 and 2 receivers, Evans and Reed: Roscoe Parrish 24 times, Steve Johnson 10 times, James Hardy 9 times. Of Edwards' 245 total completions 162, or 66%, went to the receivers in 2008, of which 119 out of the 162 went to numbers 1 and 2, Evans and Reed. That means that 73.4% of passes to recievers went to our number 1and number 2 guys. If Edwards throws the ball 500 times in 2009 at a similar completion percentage as 2008 and if Edwards maintains the same tendencies as last year, then he will complete 328 passes, 66% of which, or 216 passes, go to the receiving corp. If Edwards again looks to his top two targets and using the number 73.4% then Terrell Owens and Lee Evans will have approximately 159 catches to share, or 80 receptions a piece. While Edwards will obviously not have the same tendencies that he did in 2008, the only shift I can imagine would be a greater amount of his throws going to his highly talented receiving corp in 2009 and probably fewer balls to go around to guys like Marshawn Lynch (47 catches in 08) and Fred Jackson (37 catches in 08). With Evans averaging 15 yards or more per catch in each of his seasons and with TO averaging 15 yards per catch in his last two, I'd say around 80 catches will get them both over 1,000 yards.

Let's look at touchdowns now. Looking at Lee Evans career, an obvious stat which sticks out to the knowledgeable Bills fan is that during his first two seasons, the only time Evans has ever played opposite a comparable threat to himself were his first two seasons in 2004 and 2005 when Eric Moulds put up 88-1,043-5 and 81-816-4. During that two season span Lee Evans caught a whopping 16 touchdowns, as a rookie and a sophomore, thats the same amount of scores as Calvin Johnson his first two seasons! This should remind us all of how dangerous our recently paid receiver can truly be when hes got someone else drawing attention on the other side of the field. One could argue that his yardage and catch production was lacking but I would respond as a rookie and sophomore he was our #2 option to Moulds #1, while now he and Owens are co-#1s. Those touchdowns were scored by Evans in 2004 when QB Drew Bledsoe attempted 450 passes at a 56.9% completion percentage and in 2005 when JP Losman and Kelly Holcomb combined to complete 58.5% of their passes while throwing 458 attempts. That was a rookie Evans scoring 9 TDs in 2004 opposite Moulds, a veteran one should push for similar stats playing opposite Owens and if Edwards throws 500 times and maintains his accurate ways at plus 60%.

Finally, Owens presence in the red zone should increase Lee Evans production there. To go along with his 16 TDs in his first two years, Evans has 16 TDs in his last three. Of those 16, just five have come in the red zone, including just one in 2008 and just one in 2006 despite being targeted 354 times during that span. Owens by contrast was targeted 407 times over the last three years and scored 38 TDs of which over the last three years 6 were in the redzone in 08, 6 in the red zone in 07 and 7 in the red zone in 06. Owens has 19 redzone TDs over the last three years compared to Evans' 16 total touchdowns. In fact, Owens' 6 red zone TDs in 08 was more than our all our recievers last year in the red zone and his 10 total TDs was more than our total 9!

Evans has demonstrated he can make tough grabs in the red zone (helmet grab?) and with TO that much of a threat inside the 20, Evans should see a whole lot of space, the amount of space a talent like Evans should never get that close to paydirt. Expect a huge spike in Lee's redzone TD production. Of course, Owens putting up double digit TDs should not be too much of a concern, he has more than 10 scores in 7 out of the last 9 seasons (one of which was his getting booted by Philly year).

Phew....there you have it. Let me know if you think I'm a jerk, if you think maybe I'm on to something or if you think I should be fired for thinking about this all day at work. Thanks to kaisertown for getting me thinking about this and I think its a healthy discussion for us all to have. We have some very good receivers and of course, if what I predict does come true it would also mean a big time arrival for our QB. Poll below.

Poll
Will Terrell Owens and Lee Evans have 1,000 yard seasons and double digit touchdowns?
Yes, both will break out
115 votes
Yes to TO, no to Evans
23 votes
Yes to Evans, no to TO
41 votes
No to both, stop trying to get pumped for what will be another lack luster season on offense
15 votes

194 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

2 recs  |  Comment 46 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

What leads me to think that TO will leave some dissapointed is the way that Bills fans seem to think that TO was easily the best WR to change teams which I just don’t believe. Brian’s article about the best addition of the offseason left me a little shocked. How anyone can think that TO adds more to Buffalo than Haynesworth does to Washington or Cutler to Chicago is mind boggling. And how not a single person mentioned TJ Houshmandzadeh, even in passing confuses me too. I’d bet that if we put a poll up on rumblings asking who the better WR was, TO or Housh, you’d see more than 95% of our readers vote TO, but if you put the very same poll up on the Seahawks blog, you would get the exact opposite results with maybe 5% voting for TO. I know this site isn’t just a bunch of homers, so I’m just going to assume that the offseason is the time where dreams run wild, but the simple truth is that TO does drop some passes which I don’t think Bills fans are all that ready for and he isn’t the HOF type WR that he was a few years ago. He should be a very productive WR this year, but for him and Evans to both catch 10 TDs, they would both have to be in the top 10 in the league from a statistical perspective and they just aren’t that good.

I also disagree with some of your logic. For starters, who cares how often some of the other teams with two receiving threats throw? I’m not sure that’s particularly relevant. Some of those teams throw that much because they have elite QBs (which Buffalo doesn’t) or bad running attacks (which Buffalo doesn’t) or defenses which give up a ton of points (again, Buffalo doesn’t). And teams like San Diego, Pittsburgh and New England have multiple receiving threats and had pretty balanced attacks.

I think pass to run ratio is as much about coaching philosophy as anything. And one factor that could lead to Buffalo remaining a run heavy team is the offensive line. With Langston Walker at LT and a pair of rookies at guard, Buffalo would be smart to run early and often and let the OL get after the DL instead of vice versa. Buffalo also plays in one of the couple windiest stadiums in the league.

For me this argument comes down to whether or not Lee Evans can catch 10 TDs and I just don’t see how he can. You mention that he had 16 TDs in 2004-2005 and he actually scored 8 more in 2006. But Buffalo also only averaged 10 rushing TDs per year during that span. They scored 16 via the ground last year. And maybe more importantly Evans had QBs with big arms and a desire to throw the deep ball. Trent just doesn’t take that many shots down the field.

Finally, Owens presence in the red zone should increase Lee Evans production there.

I don’t believe that at all. I think the opposite is true. Buffalo has used Evans in the red zone out of necessity and not because he is particularly good there. Evans is short and runs his best routes when he has space and the ability to use his straight line speed. I just can’t imagine Evans suddenly being productive, or even all that involved in the game plan inside the 10 or 15 yard line. So what would a breakdown of Evans’ TDs look like? How many TDs is he going to score inside the red zone? How many on deep balls? Can he really break a slant route or score by beating defenders after the catch?

with TO that much of a threat inside the 20, Evans should see a whole lot of space

That’s the problem with WRs like Evans in the red zone. There isn’t any space. When a team can cram all 11 defenders within 15 yards of the LOS because that is where the field ends, there isn’t any space that one player can create for another.

Another factor is Edwards’ health. Does Evans even have a shot at 10 TDs if Edwards misses 2-3 games?

And how many TDs is this team going to throw? We threw 14 last year. If we assume that TO and Evans won’t be the only players to catch some, that means the Bills would have to throw at least 25 for Evans and TO to each catch 10. That’s something that only 7 teams did last year.

by kaisertown on Jun 24, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

glass half empty huh?

I thought it was a great article poz, and I agree. Definitely got me pumped for the season. Exactly what we needed, a dominant red zone threat. But I must say, given how many great stats you sprinkled in there, you prolly should be fired from work (j/k, i think its great).

by thejimbo on Jun 25, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think I’m being glass half empty. I’d actually guess that Evans and TO combine for close to 2,000 yards and about 15 TDs. Considering that this team only threw for 3,200 yards and 14 TDs last year and that Reed, Jackson, Lynch and the TEs are all going to pick up a few hundred yards themselves, that should lead to a pretty good offense.

In Brian’s article about Lynch today he wrote “Marshawn is our finisher” and I totally agree. This is still a team that is going to run first inside the red zone, particularly inside the 10 yard line. We scored 16 TDs on rushes last year and I don’t expect many passing TDs to come at the expense of the rushing attack.

by kaisertown on Jun 25, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rushing attack should also improve with TO on the field as opponent’s defenses won’t be able to “cheat” up a safety in the box.

by Honeyroy77 on Jun 26, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It never ceases to amaze me how much length goes into some of the comments here.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jun 25, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha, that was actually me trying to keep it short.

by kaisertown on Jun 25, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one has ever seen Housh play for another team. Everyone has seen Owens play for 3 teams now and each team, that team sees a major upswing because of him. For all the passes he drops, what he brings outweighs them all.

I also wouldn’t put Buffalo’s run attack as better than average. There were a few games where I felt that they could run on teams; a few where I was nervous because they didn’t have a pass attack to eat up the absent running game.

To me, the biggest difference in TD-ability comes with multiple “1st-choice” options. Last year, and the year before, it was 1 guy filling the role as WR or RB TD-maker.

Now, with Owens on board, the team should have at least 1 more option to score every time they run an offensive play. Every time.Can anyone tell me they felt confident in that in recent years past?

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 25, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Housh had 92 catches last year with Fitzpatrick at QB, a non-existent running game, a struggling OL and an injured Chad Johnson. I’m not worried about him switching teams.

It’s fair to call Buffalo’s running game average. We still have an average QB and average defense though. Running the ball should still be one of the strengths of this roster and they certainly won’t be in the 10-12 teams in passing attempts.

TO doesn’t give the Bills multiple red zone options in the passing game. The options are currently: run the ball, throw to TO, hope a TE gets open or dump it off to a RB. Poz himself writes about how unoften Buffalo has thrown the ball to Evans in the red zone and I have no clue how adding TO makes it more likely for Evans to score TDs there. Evans simply will not score 10 TDs without Edwards breaking out to the point of approaching 4,000 yards passing.

by kaisertown on Jun 25, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

TO is by far better than Housh…. One is a HoF caliber guy, the other is not.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 26, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right now though? I think Housh might be better – but I really don’t know because I don’t watch a lot of Dallas or Bengals games.

I think their closer than what most would think

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying

by J2 on Jun 26, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like your positive attitude and you put a lot of thought and effort into this, but

for T.O. and Evans to have 1,000 yard seasons the O-line (possibly consisting of two rookies) must gel quickly, Edwards must stay health for 16 games, and Edwards, Evans, and T.O. must have a monster year. What are the odds of all that happening? You would get better odds in Vegas my friend.

The Prayer of Pass Rush - Hail Maybin, blessed with a quick first step, Bruce is with thee; most reverenced art thou among DEs in the AFC, and blessed be the fruit of thy pass rush. Holy Lord, Father of the swim move, we pray for our QB hurries to be numerous and our sacks to be plentiful. Be with us in Victory and at the hour of our Defeat. Amen.

by Joe P. on Jun 24, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

For both to exceed 1000 yards, we pretty much have to be a high octane offense where Trent throws the ball upwards of 500 times. You talked about that some, but without looking it up right now, I’d have to imagine that teams who have two 1000 yards receivers in the same season are the teams who are pass heavy with 500+ attempts a year. Not only do we have to throw it a lot, but we have to be successful (duh). Is Edwards good enough to be a guy that has consistent and prolonged success through the air this year?? Call me skeptical on that one.

I also believe we need to be a run first offense, or at least run oriented offense. I can’t see this team passing the ball 57% of the time. Not with the running backs we have, and not with the offensive line we’ll have. I don’t know if Walker at LT and a pair of interior rookies is good for a heavy passing attack.

I think it’s a bit over the top to think that both will break 1000 yards and score 10+ TD’s each. I’ll be surprised if either scores 10 TD’s, but believe TO has a significantly better chance to achieve that feat. I honestly can’t see this team succeeding if they throw it like those numbers would entail.

Since I think TO is a better player, he’s my choice for the guy to hit 1000 and 10. I don’t think Evans reaches either, though there’s a chance he comes close to the yardage total. I just don’t have enough confidence in Edwards to expect both to hit 1000. Do we really expect him to throw it downfield to these guys enough? I still expect lots of dumpoffs and Josh Reed.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 25, 2009 1:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Joe, I don't think your logic is crazy

I think it ALL depends on 2 things:

1. the ability of these 3 guys to remain healthy and on the field all season
2. The Bills getting blown out of games often and needing to throw more “garbage” stats.

I think Evans can hit the century mark and TD mark, but I see him getting far fewer catches based on the fact that he may become that home-run threat like never before. Sure, Owens brings the same game, but I see the team going to Owens for the passes in coverage and Evans over coverage.

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 25, 2009 7:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather not see that

If they both have 1000 yard season, I think we are not that good, and are passing too much.
So, I would rather have two 1,000 yard rushers, than two 1,000 yard passers. T.O. addition is awesome, but as Tim Graham said in one of the Fan Shots of his AFC East blog, MArshawn is our best player, and I’d like to see him and Freddy with some amazing stats, if it were to happen, which I don’t see with Rhodes now in the mix.
Anyway, I want to win mostly, so however it comes I am for it, but with the new line, something tells me quick west coast throws, that hit TO and others for short to intermedite passes with room to run after the catch will be the formula, with a lot of running the football. I expect a balanced to team, and I only expect Edwards, if healthy all year, to throw it 450-475 times, and thats whethe we’re good or not, but in some sense less may be more. I don’t think, at least in the beginning of the year, we will be pass happy like the 07 Pats or anything so, whatever….I’m done

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jun 25, 2009 7:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Arizona would beg to differ with the 2 receiver 1,000 yard season argument. I’m not sure that Boldin achieved that but only because he got hurt in the Jets game. Mind you that is with a HOF QB throwing the ball but the fact is they got to the SB and probably should have won.
I think the addition of Owens will open up the field more for Evans but I think the jury is still out whether Evans will be a red zone threat. I just don’t see that willingness to do whatever it takes to get into the end zone like the really great receivers have (Owens, Fitzgerald, Boldin, etc.).
What I do expect to happen with the addition of Owens is a noticable increase in the time of possession category. If it increases like I expect it to then Edwards should have 500+ passes (barring injury) for the season and both receivers should have good numbers. I could see one of them going over 1,000 yards and the other close, but 10 td’s each isn’t my expectation.

by gatornation on Jun 25, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also expect an increase BUT

I don’t see the Bills being a pass happy team with our backs, but that is if are line can run block

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jun 25, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

This team must establish a run game early even without lynch. If they can do that then it will be much easier to throw the ball down field.

If we go into games with T.O and Evens looming over the opponents heads and just pound the ball it will open a lot of opportunities in the pass game.

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jun 25, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus

something in me wants a mean, smashmouth team, and all signs point to that by our offseason O line acquisitions. I mean, finess and a west coast passing game is fine, but if we can muster 4 to 5 yards a carry, I would rather run it 40 – 50 times a game if we could. If we’re winning, why not?

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jun 25, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With three backs like Lynch, Jackson, and Rhodes, this could even be possible without wrecking any of their careers.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jun 25, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

THat would be awesom

Lynch 15 carries, Jackson and Rhodes about 10 a piece….and then trent throws it about 20 times…in an ideal ball ocntrol universe where are team moves the chains, that might be a recipe for victory. It is about 60 offensive plays per team per game right? Something like that….
Anyway, our offense has the pieces to at least be unique in its playcalling and execution and I hope that is a positive thing

GO BILLS!

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jun 25, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The ability of these backs to catch the ball out wide and even downfield will further give defense’s problems.

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jun 25, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arizona actually had 3 1000 yard receivers last year. Breaston achieved it as well.

We don’t have Kurt Warner. Offenses are comparable.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 25, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They have Kurt Warner with Mike Gandy. We have Trent Edwards with Langston Walker. Oh wait – nevermind.

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 25, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be great to see Wood, Levitre and Hangartner emerge

Nobody’s expecting anything from rooks, or guys playing new positions, with the possible exception of Dick Jauron and Kugler. But you look at some great O-lines, and they didn’t start out heralded at all.

A great example is the line Jim Kelly started with in his first season here. Everybody thought they were horrible. (What was the center’s name?) But something happened.

The point being, there is something that happens when a dominant line hits its stride. It has something to do with raw talent, technique, strength (in the case of Walker, girth), but there’s something else, too.

It’s mystical. We could use a little mystical on our team.

by Defensewinsgames on Jun 25, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Evans will have less catches than he normally does, but for more yards and TD’s. Normally Evans gets quite a few underneath catches and gets YAC. Witth TO taking some of that away, he’ll be more free on deep throws, leading to a higher number of TD’s. TO will help turn our red zone FG’s into TD’s. Josh Reed should be able to open up the short middle to passing, and help on blitzes.

I am excited!

by syrbillsfan on Jun 25, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Normally Evans gets quite a few underneath catches and gets YAC.

???? When has Evans ever gotten YAC from underneath routes? Seems like the majority of his YAC come after he catches a long pass and runs away from defenders.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 25, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

Unfportunately, because we have had no TE threat, the underneath has been no-man’s land for Evans, and when he gets a catch he is lucky to add a few, maybe even 5, yards after the catch. WIth that said however, things may change this season, but it all depends. I see a better chance of Jackson on the outside rackin’ up the YAC, since they’ve been putting him out there on OTAs….

One quick thing for you, or anyone out there. It seems Freddy J is deceptively fast, and very fluid in his motion. Lining him up as a WR makes me think he is very fast, as he seems to have shown on his big gainers like in last years Denver game. Any thoughts on his speed?

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jun 25, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Jackson is fast at all. He’s quick and moves very well, but I don’t think he’s a guy that would break away from too many defenders. I doubt he’s a 4.5 guy, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be effective and produce some big plays.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 25, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he is fast enough for a guy who can break tackles like he can

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jun 25, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being fast doesn’t make you break tackles better. Strength and agility do.

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 25, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats not what i said

I said he has a great ability like Lynch to break tackles, thus not requiring him to be as fast as say a Peterson

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jun 25, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I “misremembered” as I replied. =)

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 25, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

Football isn’t track, and I realize that, but just wanted someone’s take on it whose opinion I respect. Like I said, I don’t think he is fast like a sprinter, but he is football fast and does produce big plays. He knows how to break tackles and where to run with the football. HE just seems like a smart player, and from his humble Division II and then NFL Europe beginnings, he deserves every second of playing time he gets and I hope he continues to flourish. I mean, Emmitt Smith ran like a 4.6 out of college, and well, he was pretty good

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jun 25, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edwards

Edwards might breakout. It is possible. But if you need a reminder of how bad he can be go watch the first half of the 49ers game or the Jets game at home, or Fins on the road, or 1st half of the Rams game, or the Browns game, even the Seahawks game- 1st 25 minutes he was awful. Look he made a few plays and showed potential. But these predictions that we are going to have 2 1000 yards receivers seems a tad far fetched to me. I think there is a better chance that we don’t have 1 1000 yards receiver than we have 2.

And…Trent Edwards has been healthy for a full season at the NFL level nor in his last season at Stanford. I doubt he plays in 13 games, especially with our O-line concerns.

by Berg79 on Jun 25, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Meant to say has NOT been healthy.

by Berg79 on Jun 25, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice work Poz!

First – I really really really hope this comes to pass. It’d be for a great season (excitement wise at least)

I personally don’t care what stats they put up if they win. If the D carries the O all season and Lynch gets 500 yds, Trent throws for 1200 with 89 picks and TO becomes our DE but we win I’ll be very very happy. Its wins for me – what ever gets us the W’s baby (JUST WINN BABY WINN)

but great write up – I like projections and you obviously put a lot of thought into it. Here’s hoping it comes true!

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying

by J2 on Jun 26, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Article..Loved the Read..

I voted for Evans to get 1000 yards but I also think TO will have more TD’s..TO is a tougher player in my opinion so he’ll get the ball in the Red Zone..Evans will catch more long passes due to the distraction of having to cover both receivers..Also I see Fine and even Rhodes getting the ball thrown their way in the end zone..All of this of course depends on Edwards staying healthy,and I’m not betting any money on that..

by FanFromThe80s on Jun 26, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Too many responses to spread it all out but just a couple of thoughts to those who don’t think our offense will throw more or will put up big numbers. What do you think we are going to see on Monday Night Football against the Pats? We are going to see the Bills forced to go to the air to keep up with the high octane offense. Now, we play the Pats twice, the Colts once, the Saints once, and the Texans once. We play arguably the four most explosive offenses in the league FIVE times next year. Trent will hit 500 attempts and TO and Lee will be forced to make plays against those teams and the other high quality opponents we will face.

Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.

by poz on Jun 29, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Some people would argue that the best way to beat a high octane offense is ball control

Run the ball and eat time off the clock with long drives. Wear out the defense, limit their chance to score by keeping the offense cold and out of rhythm, sitting on the bench. When they do get on the field, they are frustrated, impatient, and more prone to try to do too much which can result in an INT or fumble. Remember the Bills vs Giants SB?

The Prayer of Pass Rush - Hail Maybin, blessed with a quick first step, Bruce is with thee; most reverenced art thou among DEs in the AFC, and blessed be the fruit of thy pass rush. Holy Lord, Father of the swim move, we pray for our QB hurries to be numerous and our sacks to be plentiful. Be with us in Victory and at the hour of our Defeat. Amen.

by Joe P. on Jun 29, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

very good points Joe

and I think it would be a great approach for the Baltimore Ravens or the Pittsburgh Steelers. The questions I would have for you are these: (1) do you think our defense can keep the game close enough against those types of offenses, especially without a pass rush, to allow us to try a strategy like the one you suggest (which is a good strategy I admit) and (2) do you think our young o-line can help our running backs keep possession by earning 1st downs consistently?

With our defense and our o-line I kind of get the feeling we’ll have a two TD deficit in those games by the 2nd quarter even with that approach and that our best bet would be to get TO and Lee Evans the ball.

Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.

by poz on Jun 29, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A ball control game plan would help solve those issues IMO

1. By keeping our defense off the field, it keeps them fresh so they can play fast which is when they are supposed to be their most effective. We will generate a better pass rush if they are fresh than if we are losing the TOP battle in the second half. Again, keeping the Pats, Colts, and Saints offense off the field is the best way to stop them from scoring.

2. It is easier for young O-lineman to attach (run block) than pass block, so I think running the ball should play to the strength of our new lineman.

I don’t want to abandon the passing game, just have a good mix.

The Prayer of Pass Rush - Hail Maybin, blessed with a quick first step, Bruce is with thee; most reverenced art thou among DEs in the AFC, and blessed be the fruit of thy pass rush. Holy Lord, Father of the swim move, we pray for our QB hurries to be numerous and our sacks to be plentiful. Be with us in Victory and at the hour of our Defeat. Amen.

by Joe P. on Jun 29, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course in the end it all comes down to Edwards staying healthy doesn't it

Do you think he can? I’m sort of banking on the odds being hes due for a healthy year

Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.

by poz on Jun 29, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Granted, it wasn’t the same offense without Brady, but we did play NE twice last year as well as Denver and Arizona. Trent should hit 500 pass attempts, but only if he stays healthy. 500 isn’t actually that many. 20 teams threw the ball that many times last year. The problem is that teams that really put up the huge offensive passing numbers threw the ball 600 times last year. Teams like NO, AZ and DEN threw 600+ times last year and NE was close to 600 when they broke records in 2007. This team just won’t throw that much. They attempted 479 passes last year and they should throw a few more per game this year putting them somewhere in the middle of the league. But to think this team will approach the top 10 in pass attempts (which they would have to do to get a pair of thousand yard, double digit TD receivers), just isn’t realistic. They are going to run the ball way too much to throw the ball 575 times and end up in the top ten in pass attempts.

by kaisertown on Jun 29, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First, to touch on a point you made in your initial post which I had meant to respond to, I think Owens presence in the red zone does open some things up for Evans I would expect defense to slide coverage over to Owens side hoping to contain the less red zone deadly Evans with weaker coverage. I think Evans can beat that for at least 4 or 5 TDs. Remember, Evans red zone production could have been hurt by the fact that we didn’t get in the red zone that much. Owens will help us move the chains because despite his 15 ypc average like Evans a lot of his TDs are not as long as Evans, meaning we should be able to get closer and closer to the end zone more often.

That said, i don’t think we need to get close to 600 attempts to get two receivers in double digits. Look at Philip Rivers last year who put up 4,009 yards and 34 TDs in a balanced Norv Turner offense in which he threw 478 times. So I do think its possible for big numbers from Edwards and even more than that, I don’t think its too much to expect our running game to see a reduced role. As you noticed, Matt Cassel and Tom Brady NE teams aren’t even close to being the same while Denver and Arizona were mediocre teams (I said it , the Bills would have won their division, they got hot at the right time). I think Houston is better than Arizona but is stuck at 8-8 in the best division in football, the Saints are a playoff team and the Colts and Pats are just nasty. So I thin running against Denver and Arizona was easier than it will be against these teams.

Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.

by poz on Jun 29, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also

as I mentioned above to Joe, I think the biggest threat to any sort of offensive success is Edwards staying healthy. If he goes down for another 3 or 4 games this year, is it time to draft another guy?

Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.

by poz on Jun 29, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

If Trent isn’t healthy this year, this team isn’t winning anything. Even if he is healthy, it’s going to be tough. But if he gets hurt and the team goes 6-10 or whatever, we’ll be looking at another coaching staff, one that will bring in their own guy.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 29, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

SB Nation's home for daily Buffalo Bills coverage.

Community Guidelines

Start posting about the Bills »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Run_like_hell_small
Belichick Interview
Bills_small
Good future draft pick to keep an eye on.
Beast_small
To Lighten Up The Mood...
Small
Bills Coaching Future?
Jphshrink_small
The Back of Ralph Wilson’s Football Card
261x_small
Continuity will lead to success with Buffalo
Small
Fixing This Team Starts in the Trenches
Cody_small
Deja Vu All Over Again
122857_red_sox_angels_baseball_small
Anyone know of any updates on Kevin Everett?
Picture_2_small
Our best chance is keeping Jauron

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation


Editor-in-Chief

Dawesome_copy_small Brian Galliford

Editors

Sucks_small Kurupt

Mrsinister03_small sireric

Homertexans_small MattRichWarren

Authors

Dynamics_small Ron From NM