Putting the Bills' inexperience at QB in perspective

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2009 1:01 PM EDT in News Comment 76 comments

Behind Edwards, Buffalo's quarterbacks rank among the league's least experienced. (AP)

What is the quickest, easiest and most frequently successful way to field a consistent winner in the NFL? The answer to that is easy - find yourself a good quarterback.

The Buffalo Bills have been searching for their first long-term good quarterback in the post-Jim Kelly era for over a decade. Right now, third-year pro Trent Edwards is attempting to solidify himself as the first young, long-term starter to be drafted by the Bills since Kelly was selected in the first round of the 1983 NFL Draft.

For better or worse, the Bills are elbow-deep in the Edwards experiment. The current regime has their quarterback. What's next on the 'to do' list for any young quarterback? Get experience - and that's an area that Edwards is currently behind in, given that he has just two years of NFL experience and just 23 career starts.

The Bills are a talented football team. Their depth at the offensive skill positions is among the best in the league; their defense isn't laden with superstars, but has enough talent to fuel a playoff team. It's on the inexperienced Edwards to successfully navigate Buffalo to the post-season for the first time in nine years; that is the unfortunate truth of playing quarterback in the NFL.

Just how inexperienced are the Bills at quarterback, however? Even beyond Edwards, there were some concerns about the fact that his recently signed backup, Ryan Fitzpatrick, has just 15 career starts himself. There's hardly a wealth of playing experience between the Bills' top two signal callers. But a quick dose of perspective will tell you one thing: yeah, the Bills are inexperienced at quarterback, but they're also far more advanced at the position than over a quarter of the league.

Experience is obviously only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to having an "answer" at the quarterback position in the NFL. But it's also one of the few puzzle pieces that is actually tangible. Head on in past the jump for an analysis of just how green the Bills are at quarterback in relation to the rest of the NFL.

Much is made of the fact that Edwards is carrying the expectations of a desperate franchise on his shoulders despite having just 23 NFL starts under his belt. That's less than a season and a half of experience, making Edwards one of the league's biggest question marks at his position based on his youth alone. But there are teams that are even greener at the position, folks.

Here's a look at all 32 projected starting quarterbacks heading into the 2009 season, ranked by the number of career starts under their belts.

Peyton Manning, IND (176)
Kerry Collins, TEN (164)
Donovan McNabb, PHI (128)
Tom Brady, NE (111)
Drew Brees, NO (106)
Matt Hasselbeck, SEA (103)
Kurt Warner, ARI (101)
Daunte Culpepper, DET (95)
Marc Bulger, STL (87)
Jake Delhomme, CAR (81)
Chad Pennington, MIA (77)
Ben Roethlisberger, PIT (71)
Eli Manning, NYG (71)
Carson Palmer, CIN (65)
Philip Rivers, SD (48)
Byron Leftwich, TB (46)
David Garrard, JAX (46)
Tony Romo, DAL (39)
Jay Cutler, CHI (37)
Jason Campbell, WAS (36)
Kyle Orton, DEN (33)
Matt Schaub, HOU (24)
Trent Edwards, BUF (23)
Tarvaris Jackson, MIN (19)
Aaron Rodgers, GB (16)
Joe Flacco, BAL (16)
Matt Ryan, ATL (16)
JaMarcus Russell, OAK (16)
Matt Cassel, KC (15)
Shaun Hill, SF (10)
Brady Quinn, CLE (3)
Mark Sanchez, NYJ (0)

Think about that, folks. This is an incredibly exclusive group of human beings. Of these 32 men, Buffalo's quarterback - as young, green, and experience-starved as he is - has more substantial NFL playing time than nine of his peers. If that doesn't tell you that NFL teams are impatient and take a lot of risks, I'm not sure what will.

Typically, NFL teams that roll the dice on young quarterbacks (i.e. every NFL team at some point) brings in a veteran quarterback with experience in the league to help guide the young starter behind the scenes. The smart money had Buffalo doing this to help speed up Edwards' development; the signing of Fitzpatrick, with just 15 career starts, laid that notion to rest.

Between Edwards and Fitzpatrick, Buffalo's quarterbacks have started 38 games - less than two and a half seasons' worth of starts. Yet again, that's a scary proposition - and yet again, over a quarter of the league are facing scarier propositions. Below, you'll find NFL teams ranked by the starting experience of their top two quarterbacks; this is, in effect, a ranking of the NFL's most experienced (and relevant) quarterback depth charts.

193 - Tennessee Titans (Kerry Collins, Vince Young)
182 - New Orleans (Drew Brees, Joey Harrington)
176 - Indianapolis (Peyton Manning, Jim Sorgi)
154 - Dallas (Tony Romo, Jon Kitna)
150 - NY Giants (Eli Manning, David Carr)
132 - Oakland (JaMarcus Russell, Jeff Garcia)
129 - St. Louis (Marc Bulger, Kyle Boller)
128 - Philadelphia (Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb)
121 - Pittsburgh (Ben Roethlisberger, Charlie Batch)
117 - Arizona (Kurt Warner, Matt Leinart)
115 - Seattle (Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace)
112 - Carolina (Jake Delhomme, Josh McCown)
111 - New England (Tom Brady, Kevin O'Connell)
95 - Detroit (Daunte Culpepper, Matthew Stafford)
77 - Miami (Chad Pennington, Chad Henne)
73 - Cincinnati (Carson Palmer, J.T. O'Sullivan)
58 - San Diego (Philip Rivers, Billy Volek)
56 - Washington (Jason Campbell, Todd Collins)
54 - Jacksonville (David Garrard, Cleo Lemon)
48 - Denver (Kyle Orton, Chris Simms)
46 - Tampa Bay (Byron Leftwich, Josh Freeman)
40 - San Francisco (Shaun Hill, Alex Smith)
38 - Buffalo (Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick)
37 - Chicago (Jay Cutler, Brett Basanez)
31 - Houston (Matt Schaub, Dan Orlovsky)
31 - Minnesota (Tarvaris Jackson, Sage Rosenfels)
30 - Cleveland (Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson)
26 - Kansas City (Matt Cassel, Tyler Thigpen)
26 - Atlanta (Matt Ryan, Chris Redman)
18 - Baltimore (Joe Flacco, Troy Smith)
16 - Green Bay (Aaron Rodgers, Brian Brohm)
8 - NY Jets (Mark Sanchez, Kellen Clemens)

Before you ask: yes, I do think it is most excellent that the Jets are by far the greenest team at quarterback in the league. Rex Ryan can talk up his Ray Lewis and Ed Reed-less defense all he wants, but quarterback is likely going to be a problem in New York.

This post is not, however, meant to delude Bills fans into thinking that Buffalo's lack of experience is somehow irrelevant when talking about the same topic on a league-wide basis. The fact that nine NFL teams have more inexperienced players starting at quarterback is very marginally related to how the 2009 season will unfold. There are some excellent teams that have less experience at quarterback than Buffalo, as well, so inexperience at the position doesn't necessarily equate to fielding a bad team. Nor does having experience equate to having a winning team - just ask the New Orleans Saints.

Buffalo's inexperience at the quarterback position is one of the critical areas that must be comfortably overcome if the team is going to end its playoff drought in 2009. But the fact that the Bills and their young quarterbacks don't even rank in the bottom quarter of the league in quarterback inexperience is a talking point unto itself - and that's your charge for now in the comments section.

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Comments

I don’t think inexperience will be a factor. Trent has seen enough in the league so far, and knows what he needs to do. It’s up to him to produce more big plays, play consistently and get this team in the end zone more.

I could have done without Ryan Fitzpatrick. I think he’s a really crappy player from watching him last year. We could have done much better than Fitzpatrick; I just hope he never has to play.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think inexperience will be a factor. Trent has seen enough in the league so far, and knows what he needs to do.

I think that’s a pretty easy thing to say. I also think it’s pretty inaccurate.

It’s one thing to “see” things. It’s another to learn how to beat the things that make you look foolish. The latter is what I consider experience, and Trent has very little of it.

I can’t see how inexperienced will not be a factor.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

experience

Trent is growing, maturing, learning etc. All those things the more games he starts. But really he kind of is who he is. I don’t believe in “breakout” years or moments of epiphany for QB’s. What happens is the TEAM starts to play more as one. Sure Trent is absolutely critical to that and more so than any other player on this team, but I thought he played well enough last year (7-5 in his 12 starts). I just hope this new offensive scheme that all these players keep talking about really is better and improved….I’m just glad they are changing things scheme wise cuz ever since Jauron took over the offense has been stagnant and unproductive.

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Jun 9, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously, he’s still learning, but for the most part he has to know what needs to get done and be ready to do it.

I guess I shouldn’t have said that inexperience shouldn’t be a factor, because it will, but I just don’t think it’ll be as big a factor as it will for other teams and players. It’s now or never for Trent this season, and he’s been a starter for most of two seasons. He’s seen and reacted to more than enough on the field to be ready to have a big year. How long will it take him to get the experience?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you look through your list

I think if you added career QB rating and / or career wins, you’d notice a trend that having an experienced qb doesn’t necessarily equate to winning. I think depending on how average your QB is, you need to make up for it in other facets of the game. Obviously Indianapolis and New England can suffer on defense and still win a lot of games. Brady especially can make any receiver look good. On the flip side, if you have Eli or Bulger you need studs on the receiving end to get wins. You also need a great defense.

I think that Trent has proven he can at least be average without stars (outside of Evans), and with the addition of TO, he can be at least above average. That is really all we need. Our defense should keep games close for the most part, especially if we can hang a TD or 2 on the board early.

I think you need enough experience to the point that you have a consistent profile and the coordinator and QB are on the same page as far as what he’s capable of. Does the journeyman’s experience translate the same way as the guy who stays put his whole career? I don’t think so. Compare Manning to Collins … There is definitely a benefit if your experience comes all on the same team. It’s just hard to nail down statistically. Just look at David Garrard and Byron Leftwich, can you honestly say either of those guys makes it more likely that their team will win? Maybe Garrard, but not any more consistently than Edwards can.

by syrbillsfan on Jun 9, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very well said. After reading all the comments and spending some of the day thinking this over, I’m still somewhere in the middle.

Experience is no longer an excuse for Edwards. If he has a crappy game, it can’t be because he is young and learning anymore. That’s not to say he can’t have anymore bad games, just that youth shouldn’t be an excuse anymore.

I think if Trent has a good but not great year, then we can say he just wasn’t experienced enough and maybe 2010 will be his year. If he is up and down and overall mediocre again (I’m a believer, but he has to prove it), then inexpierence is no longer an excuse and we will probably have a new HC looking for a new QB.

by kaisertown on Jun 9, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Trent is at least above average, and manages to avoid having mistakes in bunches, like the Cleveland MNF game last year, our defense and special teams will have enough to keep us in games. I’m not saying he can’t make mistakes, all QB’s do, just that we are in a better position, especially offensively, than we have been in a long time. Maybe even since the Jim Kelly years. If Trent stays upright, even if he only averages about the same as last year, I definitely think we have a shot at the wild card

by syrbillsfan on Jun 10, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He wouldent be expensive

At the very least i would love to have him on as a backup and get rid of Fitz.

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jun 10, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trent needs to do a lot better than last year. The offensive output cannot continue if we expect to contend for a wild card…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 11, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL Baging on the backup quarterback?

Usually he’s the favorite on the team……

Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 9, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought he was a crappy pickup when we got him.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even so, he is our best backup QB since Doug Flutie

"I’m not sure how anyone can expect Buffalo to make the playoffs without blind offseason induced homeristic optimism being the majority of their reasoning." - kaisertown

by Joe P. on Jun 9, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

He’s pretty bad….at least when I watched the Bengals last year. He reminded me a bit of Losman, running around and throwing a ton of questionable passes.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he won more games than Palmer did last year.

Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 10, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So?

Palmer played in 4 games.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 10, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well........even still......he won more games than Losman did as our backup :)

so its an upgrade to the backup position atleast…….whether its a great upgrade…I dont know……but really….do you want a great backup quarterback who could possibly cause division in the team……or rather a guy who knows his role and can help with the X’s and O’s moreso than just hold a clipboard (ala JP)

Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 10, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

rec'd ......... which is how real men +1, CBF :-)

"I’m not sure how anyone can expect Buffalo to make the playoffs without blind offseason induced homeristic optimism being the majority of their reasoning." - kaisertown

by Joe P. on Jun 10, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's funny stuff.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 10, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want a guy that can come in and lead the offense if Trent goes down. I want a guy that can win games. If the backup is good enough to take Trent’s job, though, maybe Trent is the problem!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 10, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most teams are looking for

a guy that can win games

to be their #1 QB. I get your point, but most teams that have a very good backup have an established starting QB.

maybe Trent is the problem!

Maybe….. We will see this season. Edwards may be the perfect backup QB, but I hope not :-)

"I’m not sure how anyone can expect Buffalo to make the playoffs without blind offseason induced homeristic optimism being the majority of their reasoning." - kaisertown

by Joe P. on Jun 10, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

to be their #1 QB. I get your point, but most teams that have a very good backup have an established starting QB.

Teams that have a “Very Good Backup” are teams where you haven’t seen the backup play. Even Frank Reich, who we generally accept here as a very good backup, was terrible if he had to start for more than a game or 2. If your backup has to start for more than a game or two, you’re in trouble, no matter who it is. The Bills made the righ choice by going for a guy who plays a similar game, but inferior, to Trent’s. The problem with Losman, (could stop right there) was that he was molded to play a totally different style of offense, and he just didn’t give a crap last year.

If Trent goes down go a couple games, our defense and special teams are good enough (plus there’s TO,Lynch, and Fred Jackson), for Fitzpatrick to manage a couple of games for us and to pull out wins. That’s what a backup is. If there’s a question about who should be the backup and who should be the starter, there is a huge problem.

by syrbillsfan on Jun 10, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s pretty bad….at least when I watched the Bengals last year.

But you just said it, he was playing for the Bengals; a team with a worst O-Line then us last year and NO running support. Add that to the fact that Ocho Cinco was increadibly unproductive last year and you have a receipy for failure. I know that ppl will also argue that he had Houshmenzadeh to throw to, but I honestly think that Housh is the best SUPPORT wide receiver in the league, but will struggle as a primary option in Seattle.

Was Fitzy impressive last year? Absolutly NOT. but i don’t think that he’s as bad as you make him out to be. I think that he is a good backup that was on a horrible team.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jun 12, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

experience is probably the most important thing for a young qb.. getting those looks, and being able to beat then, which then in turn, turns into confidence, which may be the 2nd most important thing...outside of the physical talent needed

by Shovel51 on Jun 9, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What goes part and parcel with getting over the experience hump is the coaching staff preparing their qb on what he should expect to see from the defense. Part of the problem last year if you recall was Edwards saying postgame that he did not expect to see what the defense brought and they did not gameplan for such a defense. That was very disconcerting in the fact that the offensive coaches did not prepare Edwards.

by gatornation on Jun 9, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that was pretty bad. I also don’t remember a whole lot of exotic looks out there either. Was Schonert and Jauron preparing the offense to go against the basic looks that teams don’t use as often these days? We can probably guess they didn’t practice against seven and eight man drops, so you’re right, why did that not occur and what will they do this year to make sure Trent and the O is ready each week?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He said that after the Cleveland game right?

To that point every team had been blitzing the crap out of him and he was doing fine. Cleveland changed it up and kept guys back in coverage.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 9, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was Just gonna say what I don't want to hear from Trent is...

“The other team played some coverages that we hadn’t seen or didn’t expect and it took us awhile to adjust.”
True or not it’s one of those things that reflects bad on everyone in the orginaisation and raises doubt that the only thing you need to do to beat the Bills is add a certain wrinkle to your defense and Trent and the offense are done.
Hopefully in his 3rd full year he will be able to adapt better on the fly. I think he reads defense’s ok it is just a matter of how he reacts to things he sees or reads. One of the reasons that our backs caught so many balls last year was because the Dump off to the RB is always the 3rd or 4th option but it seemed TE used it after the first option was covered.
Part of this was caused by pressure especially following the Arizonia game but even Trent admitted on a few occasions that they were confused by schemes and the RB is always gonna be open

by Honestabe75 on Jun 9, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Experience is definately the key

I think it is also important to note that if you add 16 more games (one season) to edwards career, making it 39…there would be only one person on the list above him that had not made the playoffs…and come on…can you really count Byron Leftwich.

The talent is around him…as we have been saying its a make or break year for Trent…he just needs to stay healthy.

by Buffalo Mo on Jun 9, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

looking at the list of QB’s about half of those above Trent are not as good as him, or i would prefer Trent over them. The likes of
Matt Hasselbeck, SEA (103)
Marc Bulger, STL (87)
Jake Delhomme, CAR (81)
David Garrard, JAX (46)
Jay Cutler, CHI (37)
Jason Campbell, WAS (36)
Kyle Orton, DEN (33)
Matt Schaub, HOU (24)

May have more experience than him, but Trent is better and has a lot more potential than any of them.

Football. Bloody Hell!!

by gregeng on Jun 9, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wait, did you seriously just say that Edwards is better than, and has higher upside than, Jay Cutler?

I’ll leave Hasselbeck alone, though I disagree there as well.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

possibly on the pitch, but as a team member he acts like a spoilt 5 year old and that should have read experience or potential not both

Football. Bloody Hell!!

by gregeng on Jun 9, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Hasselbeck and Cutler are both much better than Trent. If healthy Bulger can be pretty good, but who knows where he’s at these days. I like Garrard more than most people, and I really think Schaub is going to do big things this year.

The only guys on that list that I’d say are comparable to Trent are Delhomme, Campbell and Orton…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

bulger has had way too many concussions for me to like him. Garrard is ok but that offense has a lot to be desired. Schaub is injured all the time but may be the most comparable to Trent. Both has similar styles and both get injured a lot. Although Schaub probably has a little more of a cannon on him then Trent. I really, really like Trent’s makeup, I just hate our OC and I hate our style of offense. But what has me optimistic is they have changed scheme a lot and hopefully we will see that benefit Trent this season

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Jun 9, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i just dont like Cutler, maybe i should mention him on the hate post!

I genuinely think, and please dont laugh, i genuinely think Trent could be one best QB’s in the league, if lots of things fall right for him.

This is why i think he has more potential than those i listed and you have complained about

Football. Bloody Hell!!

by gregeng on Jun 9, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll agree

Others don’t and wont agree with you on this, but I will. You’ll get flack for the Culter being on your list, but again. I agree. I’d rather have Trent.

Why not Bobby April?

by nickdaniels on Jun 9, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree for the most part...

-Hasselbeck’s back is shot
-Bulger is one more concussion from retiring
-Delhomme is consistent and has the intangibles but lacks skills
-Garrard is inconsistent and has crappy WRs (a little like Trent when L.E. was double-covered)
-Cutler is one of the worst leaders in the NFL, his stats were bloated due to having dangerous weapons and a great coaching staff
-Campbell is a lot like Trent but less accurate and more mobile but with less pocket awareness
-Orton is a career back-up, he plays with consistentancy, consistently not making big plays
-Schaub is probably the closest to Trent with regards to skill set and injury concerns. I like Schaub’s game though because he knows what he is seeing and he knows how to beat it. Trent knows what he is seeing but isnt quite sure on how to beat it yet (poor QB mentoring IMO).

Just my opinion, but I would also add Culpepper, Pennington, Rodgers, T. Jackson, Brady Quinn/Derek Anderson, Matt Cassel, Shaun Hill/Alex Smith as QBs I think Trent is better than. A better way of saying it is, I would rather have Trent now, than any of these guys now.

by NorCal BillsFan on Jun 9, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I'm with you

I Rec’d your post.

The one development that might be interesting to see is based on Denver’s offensive play, whether the “Bubble Screen” offense I’ll call it, was a product of Tom Brady’s proficiency or if the system caused Brady’s success. If Orton in Denver is successful running the NE style offense, what does that say about Brady?

by syrbillsfan on Jun 10, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The good thing is for Trent is that the Bills actually did a good job of surrounding him with talent – that is key. He’s not throwing to scrubs anymore – he’s got weapons that the defense must respect.

His inexperience is an issue – i’m very very happy that he’s had 23 starts to this point. This is because he’s seen a lot – not every thing – but a lot. He has a decent idea how teams are playing him – but going forward a lot of teams will have to play the Bills differently.

With the triple threat in the backfield and the triple threat at WR defenses are goign to have to play honest – if they blitz he burns them – if they drop into coverage he dumps off and moves the chains.

I’m not sure if Trent is the guy – but I think he can be. I’m not sure if he’ll get over the hump – but I know he’s got the team around him. I actually think, save o-line, that we have a very solid team right now and Trent can benefit from that greatly.

Our D isn’t “pushover” soft – they will keep us in games. The O certainly has the players now.

I just hope the coaches play to his stenghts and put him into positions and plays that he’s comfortable with – you kknow -plays that he actually likes to run. Make it fun for him while letting the offense just do its thing with the run game and we’ll be sitting pretty.

And yes – if any year is the year – the Bills have a great chance at playoffs this year. I’m usually reserved with that stuff – but you know what? – barring injury – this teams gonna kick a lot of teams asses this year – including one against NE (no i’m not drunk)

Everyone has a photographic memory… some just don’t have film

by J2 on Jun 9, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

re

The good thing is for Trent is that the Bills actually did a good job of surrounding him with talent – that is key.

That’s really all many of us were asking for this off-season. We saw them going after Coles and we thought it was a luxury FA. It was not at all. A pass-catching TE or a big play WR were obviously priority #1 for this team and geting T.O. AND Shawn Nelson and then Dominic Rhodes is about all any of us could have ever asked for. The weapons are there. Plus when you have Hardy and Steve Johnson in the mix waiting for their turn to take Reed or Parrish’s touches away it’s a great situation. The weapons we have assembled are there on paper. Now it’s the scheme I’m worried about and that OL

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Jun 9, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

These lists show how experience isn't always the answer.

But it’s still pretty neat to look at it this way Brian.

I still think Culpepper should be below Stafford but it’s a coin flip. :-)

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 9, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Amazing

Peyton Manning is still #2 when pitted against 1st and 2nd string starting experience.

Jim Sorgi has the best job in the NFL, in my opinion. He makes great money, seemingly shouldn’t have to worry about injury shortening his life, and isn’t faced with constant media scrutiny and celebridom everywhere he turns. All he has to do is stand there. He doesn’t even call in plays.

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 9, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorgi makes $900K in base salary this year. He’ll make $1.08 million in 2010.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you’re inferring that’s great money, because it is – to work out and such.

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 9, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah twist my arm and I'd probably settle for that pay.

Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 10, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but if I were Sorgi, I’d like to play too….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know there’s a reason they play pro ball for a living, obviously. I wouldn’t want to follow in Manning’s footsteps though. I’d need to go to another team.

"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jun 9, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here’s some highlights of Trent from last year….

Notice some of the play action success they had? That play action throwback to Schouman against KC was a thing of beauty….why did they wait until they were in a game up 23 late in the 4th Q to run that??

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 9, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They didn't run a whole lot of it...

but apparently it was successful. I wish there was more play action.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 9, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they ran

a ton of it in the Denver game in week 16. Go look at those highlights. Bet there’s 6 just in the highlights out of Trent’s 17 completions. They adjusted in late weeks when Trent got back but weeks 6-13 they were awful, just awful offensively. Coaches need to do a much better job this season.

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Jun 9, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

something

is messed up with my posts here

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Jun 9, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It might be worthwhile to note that you can pick out free agent QBs that beat the top pair – Brad Johnson (125) / Trent Green (113). Or even Gus Frerotte (93).

Of course, once Favre signs with the Vikings, they’ll be at the top by a wide margin…

by Krenn on Jun 9, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not as knowledgeable as most of You about this

But I think the Bills would have been much better off if they had either signed someone like Jeff Garcia or upgraded to a more experienced Offensive Coordinator in the off season to get Trent “settled in” as the team leader here..I think it’s dreaming if anyone thinks that Trent will go a whole season without injury,so we needed someone who could step in with experience,or at very least have a coordinator that could provide the needed leadership for Trent..

by FanFromThe80s on Jun 9, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think adding a third OC for him would be a good idea.

Third OC in three years? Ask JP how that went. Let Turk and Trent grow together.

I was hoping for Charlie Batch type of player – someone who is not gonna threaten Trent’s starting spot but could really mentor him.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 9, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sold on the “Mentor” thing. Batch might not want to do anything like that.

As long as your backup is a good quiet puppy, I think that’s the best trait of a good backup, regardless of what might or might not happen behind the scenes. Basically, I the backup QB has at the best a net zero effect. There is no backup in the league who gives you a positive that can be measured, but if you have the wrong one, you can build up lots of bad juju in a hurry.

I really LOVE talking about our backup, my final two cents on the subject is – The Bills brought in a guy who fits their system, should be able to relate to Trent, and won’t rock the boat. What more could you ask for?

As far as Turk and Trent staying together, I think that is the experience that matters. How many games of experience your starter might have is helpful to a certain point (a season?), but I think what has a greater effect is how many years your coordinator and starter have worked together, and whether they effectively work together. Obviously having a long term OC / QB combo generally means that they work effectively together. Anyways, it’s the Tom Moore / Manning duos that generally have meaning. In Tom Brady’s case, there’s been enough turnover without decline in the OC position that Belichick must have an expanded role there, otherwise there would be some dropoff.

All of this stuff is linked and success breeds confidence, breeds more success. Turk, despite his faults, showed a lot of promise, and just like anyone doing a job for the first time, will grow and be more effective this year. Trent will grow and be more effective this year. Sure they might not match up with the greatest, but if they’re even above average, that’s really all we need to win.

The other thing over the past few months here at BR, was the insinuation that “if only we changed coaches” we’d be all set, like it was some kind of panacea. That simply isn’t true. If we changed, chances are we’d move ourselves at least a couple more years away from the playoffs. Maybe we’re still a couple years away anyway, but keeping the coaching intact, tied with the big effort at clearing the fat off the roster and bringing in talent at positions of need, gives us our highest probability of making the playoffs this year and returning there in the future.

by syrbillsfan on Jun 10, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Liposuction only works if you stop eating fatty foods

Why do I get the feeling Juaron thinks if you put bacon in a salad it is a vegatable?

keeping the coaching intact, tied with the big effort at clearing the fat off the roster and bringing in talent at positions of need, gives us our highest probability of making the playoffs this year

or another 7-9 season.

"I’m not sure how anyone can expect Buffalo to make the playoffs without blind offseason induced homeristic optimism being the majority of their reasoning." - kaisertown

by Joe P. on Jun 10, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You use a lot of analogies.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jun 10, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently ones that don't make sense, too.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 10, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it makes sense, but it took me a while to figure it out.

I really am happy the Bills stayed with Jauron, though, for better or worse. I didn’t need to witness another cleaning of the Buffalo Bills house. Just a little neatening up is all we needed, and that was done.

Arrgh he got me doing analogies too.

by syrbillsfan on Jun 10, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s the whole “you can polish a turd, but it’s still a piece of ****” comparison, I believe, which is probably true in this case.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jun 11, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well Ben Roethlisberger has said Batch helped him out...

So I’m just going by that.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 10, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No problem. I just don’t know what he could really help with, outside of helping through the grind. I think Fitzpatrick could relate better to Trent. I wouldn’t have been unhappy with Batch, I liked him when he was starting with Detroit and thought he got a raw deal there.

by syrbillsfan on Jun 10, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wanted leftwitch

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jun 9, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent Post Brian

I fanshot you on ArrowheadPride as obviously we have a younger QB and Tandem than y’all do. I hope we show some patience and groom a QB of our own:)

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 9, 2009 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope we show some patience and groom a QB of our own:)

Patience is the best thing to have in the NFL. Unfortunately, very few teams regularly exhibit it.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jun 9, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly right. Very few blog posters exhibit it either. I think the Bills will be handsomely rewarded for being patient with Jauron paired with upgrading the overall talent on the roster.

by syrbillsfan on Jun 10, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So your plan is to hope to eventually upgrade the talent on the roster

to the point where it can overcome poor coaching? Or after years and years of being a subpar NFL head coach, you think Jauron is ready to emerge from his chrysalis?

"I’m not sure how anyone can expect Buffalo to make the playoffs without blind offseason induced homeristic optimism being the majority of their reasoning." - kaisertown

by Joe P. on Jun 10, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, seeing as every good NFL team overcomes average coaching, yeah, you can do that with good talent.

I’m sick of these arguments that somehow an NFL coach is entirely responsible for the on-field product. They’re not. Coaches coach. Players make plays. We haven’t had enough players. Our coaching hasn’t been good, but I cannot fathom how anyone thinks that the coaching won’t “improve” (read: people will be less pissed) if players are making plays and we’re winning games.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jun 10, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Show me

I’m sick of these arguments that somehow an NFL coach is entirely responsible for the on-field product.

a post where anyone has made that argument.

"I’m not sure how anyone can expect Buffalo to make the playoffs without blind offseason induced homeristic optimism being the majority of their reasoning." - kaisertown

by Joe P. on Jun 10, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well Dick Jauron won 13 games in one year cause his team made plays.

And he went 7-9 last year when his team didn’t.

If that doesn’t tell me that our team could win 13 games with Jauron coaching I don’t know what can. Teams overcome bad coaching and poor coaching but not lack of playmakers.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jun 10, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs