Five bubble players sweating Bills training camp

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT in Buffalo Bills Opinion

Second-year DE Chris Ellis a forgotten man in Buffalo. (AP)

It happens every year in the NFL - players that are expected by fan bases everywhere to contribute in some manner to their local team end up being released prior to the regular season for any of a variety of reasons.

The Buffalo Bills have made surprise pre-season cuts in the past. Just last year, veterans CB Will James and LB Donnie Spragan were released as part of the team's final roster cut-down. James was signed earlier last off-season and was expected to compete for the nickel corner role; Spragan was signed as veteran insurance to an injury-depleted linebacker corps (then-rookie Alvin Bowen and Angelo Crowell had both succumbed to injury at the time), but got beat out by the team's youth at the position anyways. In 2007, the big names were QB Craig Nall and OT Terrance Pennington (who was the starter at right tackle for the second half of the 2006 season).

The longer a regime is handling personnel decisions, however, the less surprising roster cut-down day is. For the past two seasons, Buffalo's roster has been largely set heading into training camp, and only a surprise or two occurs when the official cut-down is made. That's likely to continue this year, as the coaches have personally scouted and acquired nearly every player on the roster; they know the people they're working with. Still, that doesn't mean there aren't players on the roster that have a lot to think about heading into next weekend's open of Bills training camp. Head on in past the jump to check out five guys who are unmistakably bubble players and will have to stave off serious competition to spend the 2009 regular season in Buffalo.

WR Justin Jenkins. Jenkins didn't make the final roster in 2007, but after a season-ending injury to Peerless Price, he was activated from the practice squad and carved out a niche as a special teams ace for coordinator Bobby April. That's what earned him a spot on the team last year as well. This year, however, the Bills are loaded at receiver after the free agent signing of Terrell Owens. Buffalo's depth chart at the position runs legitimately six deep, and Jenkins isn't part of that equation. His fate ultimately rests with the fate of Roscoe Parrish, a disgruntled player that wouldn't mind being traded. If the Bills make that happen - and it'll take a serious offer, they're not just going to give a player like Parrish away - then Jenkins has a shot to stick. If not... well, you get the picture.

DE Chris Ellis. Drafted in the third round of the 2008 NFL Draft, Ellis had a very quiet rookie season in which his impact was minimal. He appeared in just seven games, recording three tackles, and ended the season on Injured Reserve. Young veteran Copeland Bryan saw more playing time and had a far bigger impact on the field than Ellis. Now rookie DE Aaron Maybin is cluttering up the depth chart, and Aaron Schobel is returning from a foot injury. Buffalo hasn't hesitated to release high draft picks before, cutting 2007 fourth-round pick RB Dwayne Wright just last season. If Ellis doesn't have a strong camp, he could be next.

LB Pat Thomas. Signed just this past March, Thomas may be headed down the path of James and Spragan. Thomas is a known commodity - a solid athlete with a significant amount of game experience in zone-based schemes. He's been semi-productive early in his career, and he's solid on special teams as well. The Bills would like to see somebody unseat Keith Ellison as the starter at strong-side linebacker, but Thomas didn't get preferential treatment for that role in team mini-camps, running largely with the third unit defense at middle linebacker. Strong camps from young linebackers like Alvin Bowen and rookie Nic Harris could make Thomas expendable.

SS John Wendling. With the Bills spending a second-round pick this year on Oregon FS Jairus Byrd, Buffalo suddenly has a logjam at the safety position. Three players are safe - Byrd and veterans Donte Whitner and Bryan Scott. George Wilson is likely safe, too, as a special teams captain that has shown a flair for the dramatic when he's been given an opportunity to play defensively. The Bills have kept five safeties in each of the past two seasons; that's not a lock to happen this year, but if it does, the battle for that final spot could be between fourth-year FS Ko Simpson and third-year SS John Wendling. Don't be shocked if it's Wendling that gets the boot, even though he has been a centerpiece of April's coverage units through his first two NFL seasons. Simpson has shown an ability to be a factor on special teams as well; if Simpson has a strong camp, Wendling might be done in Buffalo.

LS Ryan Neill. It might seem strange to see a long snapper on this list. Neill has not been spectacular, but he's gotten better in each of his two seasons. Still, Buffalo's interest in (and eventual signing of) rookie long snapper Garrison Sanborn is not insignificant. Neill will make $460,000 this season and is a restricted free agent after the season. If Sanborn is consistent enough with his snapping in the pre-season, Neill might be expendable in a (very) minor salary purge.

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Comments

I think Chris Ellis will get one more year to prove himself before he’s on the bubble.

Neill I’m not sure about being on the bubble – I think the Bills will at least let him play out his contract this season.

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Jul 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions

I concur...

I don’t think they should (whether or not they would, I don’t know) give up on him. I’d hate to cut a guy loose before knowing his ceiling… especially considering that we already know the ceiling for Denney/Kelsay. We know the guy is a great athlete, they just need to coach him up.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Jul 15, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

George Wilson

I’m surprised that GW isn’t on the list – I’d think with Wendlings ST contributions that Wilson would be on the hot seat….

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying

by J2 on Jul 15, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions

That’s my point. Wilson can play special teams AND defense. Wendling’s a one-trick pony.

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"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I saw that – but I guess I’m just not enamored with him. I know he works hard and what not – I’d guess i’d ask who the team would rather have at S if pressed into action. Maybe that’s Wilson – maybe its Wendling guess i’m just not sold on Wilson.

I get your point though – and it is valid – especially when we’re talking about 3rd or 4th stringers – they better have multiple assets to bring to the table.

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying

by J2 on Jul 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions

But isn’t Ko Simpson a one-trick pony as well? Ko hasn’t been the same since his ankle injury. If he’s not the same player (and given his demotion down the depth chart, he’s not), doesn’t that put him the same category with Wendling? And since Wendling is making less than Ko and is a larger piece of the Special Teams puzzle, why is Wendling on the list over Ko?

If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...

by thatguy34 on Jul 15, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think Simpson’s demotion had a lot to do with the lingering effects of injury. I just think that Bryan Scott was so impressive that they wanted to get him on the field.

Ko isn’t a one-trick pony. I’m not sure he’s a two-trick pony, but he’s more than one. Wendling has never been given a chance to play D, even with a ton of injuries in the secondary. I think that says more than anything when talking Wendling/Simpson.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Or Simpson was demoted because he’s not very good….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

What trick does Ko Simpson have right now?

I think he’s at a much higher risk of getting cut than Wendling. His off-season incident doesn’t help his cause any either. The Bills have always shown a willingness to keep players based on STs so I think Wendling is in the better spot.

by Pistol on Jul 15, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

When did this happen?

Roscoe Parrish, a disgruntled player that wouldn’t mind being traded.

Didn’t the Bills put Parrish on the chopping block? I can’t remember Parrish doing or saying anything that would put him in the disgruntled player category.

"I BET YOU IF WE PUT A 12 DOZEN GLAZE DONUTS AT THE OTHER END ON KICK RETURN JAIME DUKES WILL BE OUR NUM # 1 RETURNER …… HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES DUKE APPLE PIE PUNKEN EATER DWINKE SMASHER DING DONG FLABER" - abayarde

by Joe P. on Jul 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions

I was wondering the same thing.

All I recall is Roscoe mentioning something like he wanted more action or wanted to make a bigger impact at WR….or something like that

Aaron Maybe?

by MonStarr_716 on Jul 15, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s been disgruntled about his playing time at WR.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Keep Wendling, Axe Ko

Personally, I would give the edge to Wendling over Ko Simpson. I know we haven’t really gotten the opportunity to see Wendling play much on defense but from what Ko Simpson has shown I am willing to give Wendling a shot. I have posted my opinion about Simpson many times before but allow me to reiterate in this space. Simpson takes horrible angles and couldn’t tackle his way out of a wet paper bag. I also have my doubts about his ability to effectively cover NFL-caliber talent. He was a decent college safety and that’s where it ends (or should have). When he was drafted out of South Carolina the talk was that he would bring some playmaking/ballhawking ability to the back end of the defense (sound familiar?). Simpson’s career INT total?…0! Granted, part of this is due to injury but in my mind that frailty is another reason to put him on the chopping block; and that’s to say nothing of his late-night habits. Let’s face it, neither Wendling or Simpson deserves to start on defense and if they are, Bills fans have a lot to worry about. So it really comes down to special teams play. Wendling has shown more athleticism (youtube jump video) and seems to be more willing to fly down the field with reckless abandon. There were plenty of times when I remember seeing a #21 missile come out of nowhere onto my TV screen. Also, if we are to believe the listings on the official team roster, both players stand 6’1" but Wendling outweighs Simpson 222-202.

I know that was quite a rant but I strongly believe that Ko Simpson no longer deserves a place on the 53-man roster.

I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?

by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Jul 15, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Given my comment that was posted literally seconds after yours (above), I certainly agree with you.

If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...

by thatguy34 on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Correction

Wendling was a #29 missile until he gave it up to Florence and will wear #21 this season.

I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?

by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Jul 15, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Simpson’s career INT total?…0!

What? He had 2 his rookie season. One off of Kitna in Detroit. Another off of Favre in a win over GB that he nearly took back for a TD. Last I checked, that ties him with Mr. Whitner.

I completely and fully agree that IF they keep five safeties and IF that battle is b/w Wendling and Simpson, it’ll be based heavily on special teams. I’m just saying that if Simpson can prove he can play STs, don’t be surprised if Wendling goes BECAUSE Simpson can play D, too.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe Bills.com is wrong

Here is where I got that

I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?

by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Jul 15, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, for whatever reason, that page doesn’t show his rookie season. He was drafted in 2006.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Brian....... don't you think Josh Reed is expendable this season?

I mean, with the log jam at WR, and the promising youth at the position, he seems to be expendable to me.

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Not even close.

This is the final year of his deal. I wouldn’t be shocked if they let him walk and use Stevie in the slot in 2010, but Reed is in line to have a VERY good year working underneath between Evans and Owens. There’s no way he gets cut, and he definitely should not be. :)

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

They would cut Parrish before they cut Reed.

No night spent pantsless is a wasted night.

by sireric on Jul 15, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Probably. And they won’t cut either.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

It seems they won’t cut Hardy of Johnson, either. That leaves a healthy Evans, Owens, Reed, Hardy, Johnson, and Parrish at the receiver position. Unless one of these six guys gets a serious injury before the season starts, Jenkins will be one of the last cuts, and the Patriots will pick him up.

I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.

by jj24 on Jul 15, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

or the dolphins. either way, he’ll have a horrid season but torch us for 200 yards and five touchdowns when he plays for us. didn’t thurman do that long ago?

by the_prophet on Jul 15, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Thurman against Buffalo.

one game, 7 rushes for 24 yards and 3 catches 26.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jul 16, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions

i must be thinking of another ex-bill.

by the_prophet on Jul 16, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Sammy Morris and Antoine Smith had good games against us...

with New England.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jul 16, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess i was thinking about giving Johnson a shot in the slot position at the 3rd WR position. After Hardy was hurt last season, he made a bigger impression on me then Hardy did. But i do understand what your saying though. Whom ever is in that slot position should have a nice season and see some balls thrown there way. :)

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

And also with the signing of P.K. Sam in the off season, seems like someone is expendable……. just some food for thought.

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL. P.K. Sam? He’s a body. That’s it.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

What's up with the PK Sam love?

Were you the one that was talking about how great he was a few months ago?

The guy will be lucky to play in preseason games. He’s not making the team.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions

No

But, he was one of the few Bright spots in the CFL, in particular with Toronto. But he did have a nice (6game) season with them. http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1226367 and also considering he is 6’3" and like 220 lbs and only about 25 or 26 years old, hey, you never know. There have been players that came over from the CFL that did have good careers in the NFL. Just something to think about.

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think Stevie will be in the slot in 2010. I think he will be replacing Owens on the outside. Reed gets re-signed too.

by Berg79 on Jul 15, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not sure Johnson is a starting NFL receiver. His speed isn’t great. He’s more of a possession-type, red zone threat to me. Great with YAC, but can he separate? I’d like to see him given the opportunity, but he’s a sure thing in the slot.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Yea, and along with "Usemity" Sam

And since Kurupt has labeled me as a P.K. “Usemity” Sam lover now i’m on the band wagon. He was only the roootenest tootenest bestest receiver on the Tornonto Argo’s.

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Hey, if that’s what you want!

Someone was talking him up a few months back and talking about how great of a returner he was….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Since when is elite speed a determining factor? It seems to me that he has the build to be a starter, and just needs to hone his skills. He has great hands and although he doesn’t have great speed, he could be a poor man’s Anquan Boldin – not too shabby I think.

by karovda on Jul 15, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I said “I’m not sure”, not “he can’t.” Dude has 10 career catches, and I preach cautious optimism. He needs to grow.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess it was just your stated reasoning for not being sure of his starting possibilities. Lack of top speed and possession-type receiver aren’t the reasons why he won’t be a starting receiver. As you say, he has a lot to prove. At the same time, if he could succeed in the slot, I inclined to think he would likely be able to succeed as a #2.

by karovda on Jul 15, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions

At least he appears to have a nose for the endzone. 2 of his 10 career catches are TDs.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 15, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I think he could be a starter because of his willingness to block. I want to see him in that type of role more often to see what he’s got. I don’t know if he’s a starter either, but he seems to have the skills to be one. And speed would be my biggest concern too…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

We need a possession type guy across from Evans. I think it is tough to label Johnson yet since we haven’t seen enough of him. He has the size to be more than just a slot guy. I think Reed stays in the slot for the next few years. But then again…as you have said all of this depends on Edwards progress. if Edwards goes so does Reed most likely.

by Berg79 on Jul 16, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions

lol

No way! Reed has been Edwards’ go-to guy, and will probably drive up his YAC this season with Owens and Evans on the outside.

by BuffCrunch on Jul 15, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I wish Jose Reed got the credit and respect he deserves

Bills fans are too busy calling for him being cut to realize how important he is to the offense and most importantly, the young QB. I never understood that.

He’s never been appreciated and it’s really not fair, because he does his job and does it pretty well each week.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I completely agree...

plus he is a hard guy to bring down once he has the ball in his hands…

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not saying he doesn't do his job

All i’m saying is there has to be a reason we have signed so many receivers. And i’m not saying he is a terrible person, or a bad locker room guy. As far as i’m aware of he is a model citizen. But lets look at the facts……. he hasn’t really lived up to his 2nd round billing when we drafted him. He is not a red-zone threat (9 career TD catches) and with a career average of about 11 yards per reception, how many of those are yac yards? 2 maybe? The goal of any team is to improve the talent on the team. To say he would be lucky to play in the preseason and never make the team is pretty extreme, and would be willing to bet he will see playing time in the pre-season, and has a shot to make the team like anyone else that is on the current roster going into camp.

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

That's not his role or his game though

Reed is a possession guy who moves the chains and blocks well in the run game. It’s not his fault he isn’t much of a red zone threat or a big play guy. Should he be criticized for something he shouldn’t be expected to do much of? I don’t see anyone criticizing Evans for not being a possession receiver, so why do people rip on Reed for not being a big TD guy?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions

It’s not his fault he isn’t much of a red zone threat or a big play guy. Should he be criticized for something he shouldn’t be expected to do much of?

Now, I totally appreciate the role Josh Reed has on this team, but this has to be the worst case of special pleading I’ve seen in a long time. The fact is, all those years Josh was the #2 WR, he was rightly criticized for those things because he was expected to do them. They finally pushed him into the slot and put others at #2, thus making his value felt.

What bugs me about your reasoning is that the same exact thing could be said of Kelsay. He isn’t expected to be a sack monster – his game is stopping the run. Should he be criticized because the Bills have never bothered to find a better DE for rushing the QB?? If they ever did, he would finally fit into the role that he’s suited for just like Josh Reed has. By your logic here about Reed, Kelsay shouldn’t be criticized for his lack of sacks.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 16, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions

The fact is, all those years Josh was the #2 WR, he was rightly criticized for those things because he was expected to do them.

Again, it’s his fault the Bills tried pushing him into a role he probably wasn’t capable of succeeding in? He probably should have been a slot receiver his whole career, but the Bills refused to find anyone else to play the outside. Blame the Bills for that, not Reed.

I don’t expect Kelsay to be a sack monster, but getting 5-6 consistenly shouldn’t exactly be much to expect. And if he was a great run stuffer (which he’s not), he’d at least have some value to me. Josh Reed doesn’t have a contract for $6M per season like Kelsay does, either. And yes, the Bills have been criticized, and rightfully so, for not trying to find a better DE. How could they not be criticized for that? Kelsay should be criticized for being a terrible pass rusher and a poor run defender, while somehow earning a big contract. I don’t see how Reed is comparable to that.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions

If Kelsay is a poor run defender, then explain this:

It’s also worth noting that over the past three years, only one Bills defensive lineman – end Chris Kelsay, a player traditionally in a better position to make a play – has more tackles than Williams’ 148.

(From BG’s article on Kyle Williams)

Kelsay is performing the role the Bills expect him to perform.

I’m aware that he overpursues on misdirection.

My reasoning is simply this: Josh Reed should be criticized for not being able to get into the endzone. If he’s that good at finding the soft spot, if he’s that physical, he ought to be able to get open in the endzone. In the same way you don’t think it’s too much to expect Kelsay to get 5-6 sacks per year, I don’t think it’s too much to expect Reed to get more than 1 TD in 2 seasons.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 16, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions

It depends. It’s completely fair to criticize Reed in the context of being a bad starter. He couldn’t be much less of a red zone threat, struggles to get open 15+ yards downfield and just isn’t particularly threatening in general. What people do is turn that into, Reed stinks, or is expendable or whatever. K’s right that it’s not Reed’s fault that he isn’t good at those things, he just doesn’t have that ability. It isn’t a mental thing or something that he can fix. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized for being an incomplete player.

by kaisertown on Jul 16, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe because he’s the only other player to have played three full seasons for our D?

Getting some tackles doesn’t mean he’s a good run defender. What about all the times that he is completely out of position or is fooled?

Here’s another quote from Brian’s KW article:

That’s not the case. According to Football Outsiders metrics, the Bills – behind Williams and fellow tackle Marcus Stroud – were sixth-best in the NFL in 2008 stopping the run between the guards.

If the Bills were so good stopping the run between the guards, why were their overall run stopping statistics so poor? One factor could be the poor run stuffing provided by the DE’s, perhaps?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

My contention is with your logic. You refuse to criticize Reed for his lack of ability (again, 1 TD in 2 years), but you criticize Kelsay for the same lack of ability.

Let’s take another example: you frequently criticize Trent Edwards for being afraid to throw downfield. I contend he was doing exactly what was expected of him. Why should you criticize Edwards for doing what the coaching staff expected of him if you’re not going to criticize Reed for the same thing?

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 16, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Someone's feeling saucy today...

challenging K. :-)

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jul 16, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll challenge anyone when I think their logic is less than clean.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 16, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions

By the way, isn’t my saying that Reed isn’t a red zone threat or a big play guy kind of a criticism of him??? I’m not calling him an All-Pro here, I’m just saying he does a lot of good things that people don’t seem to care for and only talk about him not scoring TD’s.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

This is what you said:

It’s not his fault he isn’t much of a red zone threat or a big play guy. Should he be criticized for something he shouldn’t be expected to do much of?

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 16, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Well then I apologize for the poor wording

…..should he be criticized for those things, without getting any credit for what he does well??

You’re going to bring up Kelsay again I bet, but since I don’t think he does anything well, I’ll say that now!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, I totally agree with you that Reed adds more value to the team than Kelsay.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 17, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Again, part of Kelsay’s problem is the big contract he got. Reed doesn’t have that. Also, I don’t think Kelsay is good at anything, while Reed is a quality slot receiver and blocker. He just isn’t a big play or red zone guy. He has many more positives to his game.

The Edwards point is fair, although I don’t know if being afraid to throw downfield is what was expected of him…You don’t think the coaching staff wants and expects more big plays out of him and the O?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions

What I’m saying is that last year, Edwards was expected to take the checkdown rather than throw a mistake. We all know Edwards basically said he was facing defenses he hadn’t been prepared for by the coaching staff.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 16, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions

For once K

I absoultely agree with you.

…except for the “Jose” part, haha.

by BuffCrunch on Jul 15, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Oops

I didn’t even realize I typed “Jose”. I talk about giving him respect and I couldn’t even spell his name right!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Here's my fanpost from February on Reed.

Ben Salem was trashing him and I put this together.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jul 16, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions

You are right

I stand corrected. I don’t know why when I clicked on the “career” tab on his stat page it didn’t show any numbers from 2006 but if you click to see his expanded bio it does mention his 2 picks in 06. I will chalk those up to luck and veteran QB’s trying to pick on a rookie.

I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?

by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Jul 15, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

BECAUSE Simpson can play D, too.

I don’t know if I would call what Simpson does “playing defense”. I can’t even begin to count how many times I screamed at my TV screen because I saw him taking horrible angles and whiffing on tackles. I think that he sometimes has a tendency to freelance outside of his responsibilities and it puts him in bad positions. I’m just speculating here but I think he tends to believe he is more talented than he really is and thinks he can make more plays than he really can. After all, he is “worth millions!”.

I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?

by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Let me rephrase: because they LET Simpson play D. The same can’t be said for Wendling.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice write up Brian

I hope the Bills use there Log jam at WR and seek a trading partner for Roscoe. As much as it hurts me to say this, because he was one of my favorite players coming out of college, it would only help the team if they could trade him either for draft picks this coming year, or a player that could help on defense. I think our depth at the return game makes him expendable, along with his salary. I think Chris Ellis should be given another year to prove himself because of his youth and speed imo.

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions

Wrong on 3 things.

Wendlings not going anywhere. The BILLS are not looking for Someone to unseat keith ellison….maybe some disgruntled fans are but not the Bills. Competition is what you mean. And finally The Bills will keep 5 defensive ends and put Copeland to the practice squad. As for justin Jenkins…hes probably gone.

Gabezababe

by Gabezababe on Jul 15, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions

Well, I can’t really respond to “Wendling’s not going anywhere”, because I never said he was. Just said don’t be surprised if he does.

As for Ellison… yeah, there’s a difference between liking a guy – and the Bills definitely like Ellison – and being thrilled if someone beats him out for his position. Nic Harris has the best chance of doing just that.

Does Copeland Bryan even have PS eligibility anymore?

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think Copeland Bryan is eligible for the PS.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 15, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Is Copeland eligible for the PS? He spent a year on the Bears PS and he has been with the team for a while now. I don’t know that he is.

No night spent pantsless is a wasted night.

by sireric on Jul 15, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Bryan was active for 15 games last year which classifies him for an accrued season. He lost his PS eligibility.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Jul 16, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Simpson / Wendling

I would love for the Bills to keep Wendling over Simpson. Will that happen? I wish I could say yes.

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 15, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions

Why isn’t Xavier Omon on this list?

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 15, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions

I guess he's PS elgible

but yeah, the writing is on the wall for him if his camp and preseason aren’t strong

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jul 15, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep, probably the PS

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s got practice squad written all over him, unless, he’s gotten considerably better or worse than last year. It seems he’s destined for the practice squad, unless we decide to keep him until Lynch comes back from suspension. He hasn’t shown much on the handful of carries he had last year. Does anyone know if we still have Bruce Hall?

I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.

by jj24 on Jul 15, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Bruce Hall

He’s still on the roster…

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/roster

I love me some DB's...I might just be Dick Jauron's long lost twin!

by DBLuv on Jul 15, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks, I thought so. He’s got some talent. I look forward to watching him fight for a job, too.

I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.

by jj24 on Jul 15, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

No problem…

I love the fact that I can link to the roster without ever leaving rumblings …Man, this site is awesome! Keep up the great work guys!

I love me some DB's...I might just be Dick Jauron's long lost twin!

by DBLuv on Jul 15, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Watch out for Justise Hairston

I wouldn’t be surprised if he made the PS over the other two…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Because we all assume he’ll be cut

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah

I think it would be more surprising if he wasn’t…

by BuffCrunch on Jul 15, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I’d like to see Wendling produce more, but if he can and is doing great on ST then why not a low contract extnsion? But I guess we’ll have to see how he progresses. Haven’t seen him play enough safety to get a handle on his game, but I want everyone to be good, and he’s no exception

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jul 15, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions

My Take...

I dont think Copeland has any PS eligibility left, I believe he played in too many games.

Hall is still a member, he was on PS last year.

I would take Wendling over Simpson, and I liked Simpson a lot when he was a rook; but his play has deteriorated and his off-the-field exploits (which to be honest don’t bother me much for most players depending on waht was done, Whitner for instance) showed that he has an inflated value for himself which I think is more problematic for the team that in most circumstances. Wendling has been given a shot to play defense, but I would have B. Scott teach him as much as possible because he seems to be the same type of player, physical and in your face with even better athleticism.

This may not be the place for this but I havent seen anyother posting for it…

Final 53 Man Roster
Offense Total – 26 on Final Roster and 5 on PS

QBs (3) Edwards, Fitz, Hamdam (Baker to PS, Hamdam may get cut to make room for C. Bryan on D)
HBs (3) Lynch, Jackson, Rhodes (Omon to PS)
FBs (1) Do we even have one? McIntyre (ugh)
WRs (6) Evans, Owens, Reed, Parrish, Johnson, Hardy (Hawthorne to PS)
TE (3) Fine, Shouman, Nelson (Stupar to PS if he’s elgible)
LT (2) Walker, Bell
LG (2) Levitre, McKinney (McKinney may get cut too if Hamdan and C. Bryan are too important to keep)
C (1) Hangman (Wood & McKinney are backup Cs too, with Hennessey to PS)
RG (2) Wood, Chambers (Rodd to PS)
RT (1) Butler (Chambers is backup T too)

Defense Total – 24 on Final Roster and 5 on PS

DE (4) Schobel, Maybin, Denney, Ellis (McGhee to PS)
DT (4) Stroud, Williams, Johnson, McCargo (Jenkins to PS)
OLB (4) Mitchell, Ellison, Harris, Bowen (Palmer & Buggs to PS)
MLB (2) Poz, DiG
CB (5) McGee, McKelvin, Corner, Youboty, Lankster (it might be Florence with Lankster going to PS, but I doubt it, Harris to PS)
FS (2) Byrd, Wilson
SS (3) Whitner, Scott, Wendling

Special Teams – 3 on Final Roster (KR/PR players have already been accounted for)

P (1) Moorman
K (1) Lindell
LS (1) Neill or Sanborn (don’t know enough about Sanborn)
KR/PR (0) McKelvin, Parrish, Jackson, Rhodes, McGee

You guys may rip this apart if you wish (I hope we get some good discussion on it)…its the best I could come up prior to training camp reports…

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions

Where is the one that shall not be named…Under DE? Last name starts with K, and is an rumblings editor’s favorite player…

I love me some DB's...I might just be Dick Jauron's long lost twin!

by DBLuv on Jul 15, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Rather than say I forgot about him (what does that say about his play)...

and change everything to fix it, can’t we just say that he’ll get cut? : )

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

I would have to drop McKinney/Hamdam/Copeland...

to make a spot for K-k-k-kel…I can’t say it K, you’ve tainted me…

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Just one more thought...

I was pretty disappointed in the coaching staff last year when they inserted Losman into the Jets game when they could have and should have put Hamdam in to see what we have in him. That could have prevented us from having to go out and get Fitz (who I know OBD likes) to backup TE and it may have saved the game from Losman’s incredibly bad luck.

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Disagree

One game wasn’t going to prove if Hamdan was worth using as our #2 this year. They obviously had no confidence in him being able to do much…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

It would have at least been something to go off of…Losman wasn’t going to be around the next year anyways…

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions

One game or not, we weren’t going to address the backup QB position with Hamdan and Hamdan only. Is it such a bad thing that the team went out and got Fitzpatrick anyhow? I don’t think he’s very good, but it’s not like that signing hamstrung the rest of the offseason….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Its not a bad thing...

I just dont think we have a comparable…we have some tape on Fitz in a real live NFL game, nothing on Hamdam. It would have been nice to just see his demeanor: does he flip out like a kid with ADD like Losman used to, or is he calm like Edwards? Does he command in the huddle, get the offense lined up and adjustments called properly with the other team breathing down your throat? It would have been possible to getg a few of those questions answered in the last few games of the year.

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree NorCal

Seems simple, seeing Hamden in action in even 1 regular season game is infinitely better than never seeing him in that situation.

by BuffCrunch on Jul 15, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure we could have seen how he played or performed under pressure, but again it’s one game. It wouldn’t have been enough to sell anyone that he should be our primary backup….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Unfortunately

That guy isn’t going anywhere

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think Simpson’s play has deteriorated. He wasn’t any good to start with. People got worked up because he was a rookie starter…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

NorCalBillsfan,
No mention of Corto. Are you assuming he will get cut also?

"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987

by thefourwinds on Jul 15, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah...

I like Corto, but who would we drop to give him a spot…the only other person I could think of was Bowen, and I think that would be premature

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions

*Wendling has been given a shot to play defense...

Should read as “Wendling has NOT been given a shot to play defense”

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions

Drayton Florence

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he didn’t make the final roster.

by BuffCrunch on Jul 15, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions

I would be surprised

Youboty and McGee are injury prone, one much more so than the other. Corner is nothing special at this point and we have two late round rookies. Why wouldn’t Florence make the team??

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

While I agree that Florence is on the team, I have read only positive reviews about Corner’s progress.

by Berg79 on Jul 15, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Only if the Bills keep 6 DBs.

(haha, knew the disagreement was comin!)

Leo, McGee, Youboty and Corner are keepers. Corner played decently when he’s had an opportunity as a nickel CB, and word is he’s continued to improve this offseason (so far).

I believe the 5th spot comes down to Harris or Lankster. Lankster has really impressed in camp, and I don’t think he’d remain a Bill if placed on the PS.

If they keep a sixth maybe that’s Florence. You say Corner is nothing special at this point but you failed to notice that after last season, neither is Florence. Sure he’s got size, and he’s a vet, but he certainly didn’t have much of an impact in Jax. IMO, at this point Corner has a lot more potential and is one of Dick’s draft pics, while Florence may have plateaued.

In regards to injuries, let’s not forget that Whitner can play the nickel if called upon as well. If Byrd does earn any significant playing time and Scott remains at SS, I’m sure the coaching staff will be finding ways to get Whitner on the field.

by BuffCrunch on Jul 15, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Corner played decently when he’s had an opportunity as a nickel CB

Disagree. Sure, he knocked away a few passes against Denver, but for the most part he was always a step or two behind the receivers in coverage. I thought he was overmatched for the most part last year. Of course, he can improve this year and I hope he does, but from what I saw of him last year, I wouldn’t be too confident in going with him over Florence for sure.

Lankster played pretty well in shorts and a t-shirt. That means nothing! I doubt those practices will have any bearing on whether a team would pick him up off our PS…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions

I doubt those practices will have any bearing on whether a team would pick him up off our PS…

Especially considering they’re just reports. If other teams were out scouting each other’s OTAs then it would definitely be a factor in signing PS players, but these teams aren’t going to care about what some beat writer says.

Obviously, Lankster can play his way onto the roster. At this point last offseason I was saying that Steve Johnson didn’t have much of a chance to make the roster and wouldn’t catch a single pass if he did. But Lankster’s got a huge uphill battle considering both the guys ahead of him and how unlikely it is that the Bills keep 6 CBs (I’m thinking there’s no way they keep 11 DBs and that they’ll keep 5 safeties).

by kaisertown on Jul 16, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Major disagreement on Ellis being on the bubble….

The guy wasn’t ready to contribute last year, and was raw coming out of VT. The team know that he might take some time. Now we’re going to just dump him? We’ve got three DE’s on the wrong side of 30, all of them overpaid and two have never been very productive. Why would we consider getting rid of one of our two young DE’s before seeing if he can do it on the field? He was supposedly bulking up this year and planning for some reps at LE. I can see him as the future LE with Maybin on the right. Let’s at least give him a shot before throwing him on the bubble!!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 15, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions

Who says I’m not giving him his shot? Training camp hasn’t even started yet!

Perhaps I should have made the headline “Don’t be surprised if these guys get cut.” Ellis has a lot to prove. If they can cut Dwayne Wright, why can’t they cut Ellis?

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Noooo respect! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk...

We’re all critics today, aren’t we, Brian?

I may be stating the obvious, but IMO, I think it’s easier to replace a 3rd or 4th string RB than a second-string DE. I also think K’s point is entirely valid. Our D-line is getting long in the tooth…

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Jul 15, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep, i agree also with Kurupt

not that i’m trying to “shoot the messenger” so to speak (meaning Brian).

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Jul 15, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, Ellis was a third-string DE last year, for starters.

I’m not saying I want Ellis gone. I don’t. I’d like him to turn into the next great DE from Virginia Tech. That would be swell. But I can also see a situation where he has an underwhelming camp and the coaches decide to keep Bryan. They already run four deep at DE (Schobel, Kelsay, Denney, Maybin), and none of those guys are going.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I see your point, but wouldn’t a 3rd round pick be more of an investment than a FA?

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Jul 15, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Of course. But you keep the best players on the team, no matter how you got them. It would take a lot for Ellis to lose a roster spot, though.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 15, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Isn't Maybin an OLB?

:) just kidding

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jul 15, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Dwayne Wright was cut because he sucked. He couldn’t hold on to the football, which is an absolute no-no for a RB.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions

For all we know, Ellis sucks too. Ellis isn’t in danger of being cut right now, it’s more that he might be in danger of playing his way off the roster with a mediocre camp.

by kaisertown on Jul 16, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions

LOL. This is all I was trying to say. :)

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 16, 2009 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Got it. Hope Ellis plays his way into a starting spot. SOON…

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Jul 16, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions

by the way

Chris Ellis looks bad ass in that photo, and i’d love to see him develop into something at least reliable

The Bills CAN win any game

by killascript on Jul 15, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions

One thing to consider about John Wendling is that Buffalo’s other experienced punt gunner, Jenkins, is also on this list. And if the list were NCAA tourney style bubble, Jenkins probably wouldn’t even be on the bubble because he’d be so far on the outside looking in. If multiple players (at least two, maybe 3-4) don’t step up and show that they can be counted on in that punt gunner role, then Wendling is a lock to make the team.

You can also flip that around and say that if a few guys show the ability to be the primary gunners then Wendling is in serious trouble. I think the team would prefer to keep George Wilson in the same role as the last blocker. That job has a lot of responsibility as a blocker, coach on the field type of leader and downfield in coverage. I wouldn’t consider him an option to move to gunner. After that you’re left with players like Youboty, Bowen, Harris, Byrd, Scott, Florence, Corner, Wendling’s main competition in Ko Simpson and my personal favorite for the role, Steve Johnson, as the potential gunners. I think Wendling’s ability as a gunner leaves him even safer then people think.

by kaisertown on Jul 15, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions

Good post Kaiser...

Most people overlook STs; there are defined positions and roles and not anyone can fill them. I had a hard time with my cut list because I know B. April has alot of influence and I tried to reflect that in my cuts. Wilson and Wendling are safe IMO, but as you said, if someone else can demonstrate that they are capable of filling that role, the dynamics change. My favorite gunners were Jenkins and Wendling, and my favorite wedge-busters (are they still called that when there is no wedge anymore?) were Corto and McIntyre (or was it Barnes, either way it a below-average FB).

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 15, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

And if we cut Wendling, who’s going to jump over the snapper on field goals?!?!?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 16, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Have the Bills blocked a FG anytime recently? I can’t remember. You’d figure with Wendling and Walker they would get one every 2-3 seasons.

by kaisertown on Jul 16, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions

And on Ellis, if cut day were tomorrow and Ellis got axed, then it would be a total surprise. I think part of what Brian is going for is that over a long training camp at a position that Buffalo is deep at, somebody who couldn’t work his way into the game last year could easily play his way off the roster. It’s not like an Ellis cut will be without warning. Final cuts are still a month and a half away and if Ellis isn’t playing well, Chris Brown or somebody else will tell us about it.

by kaisertown on Jul 15, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions