Around the AFC East: Ranking the division's defensive tackles

by Brian Galliford on Jul 17, 2009 8:00 AM EDT

It's Friday, which means the bloggers of all four AFC East teams at SB Nation are back at the ranking game. Over the past two weeks, Matty I, MaPatsFan, John B and myself have spent some time ranking the division's running backs and linebackers. Since the conversations surrounding those topics have been excellent, we're continuing the ranking game this morning.

Last week's linebacker rankings were rather dull, considering there isn't much to seriously debate - particularly when considering how evenly matched and ill-tempered the running back rankings were. Today we're making a valiant attempt to get back to even ground. In case you hadn't noticed, the AFC East is chock-full of outstanding defensive tackles. There are big names throughout the division - Vince Wilfork, Kris Jenkins, Jason Ferguson, and the Buffalo Bills' very own Marcus Stroud. The depth throughout the division is also rather terrific.

Head on in past the jump for my rankings, and be sure to check out The Phinsider, Pats Pulpit and Gang Green Nation for rival rankings as well. Then let the debate begin!

1. New England Patriots - Vince Wilfork is probably the most dominant nose tackle in the league. The man is a mountain, and he's blocked like one, too. But it doesn't stop there for New England - they drafted another stout porker in the second round when they snagged BC's Ron Brace to back Wilfork up. Brace has a shot to play 3-4 nose tackle for a long time in this league (unless, of course, Wilfork prevents him from doing so). Mike Wright can moonlight at nose tackle, but he's athletic enough to play end for Bill Belichick as well. The best player and the most enviable depth? Putting the Patriots at the top of this list was relatively easy.

2. New York Jets - Look, I'm just glad that I didn't have to put the Jets at the top of the list this week, as they took my top spot at both running back and linebacker. Kris Jenkins is excellent as the anchor of that defense - just ask Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston. The team brought in veteran Howard Green to back Jenkins up at the nose (which Sione Pouha can do as well), and Green can play a little end as well. This is a big and versatile group.

3. Buffalo Bills - It's quite strange to try to fit the Bills into a group like this because their defensive scheme is so vastly different from the rivals'. In particular, the two schemes call for the biggest personnel differences at the DT position. Buffalo's personnel is lighter and quicker than the rest of the division's tackles simply because they're being asked to do different things. Marcus Stroud is still an upper-echelon tackle in the league, and the unheralded Kyle Williams is solid too. Spencer Johnson offers some athleticism and versatility in reserve, and if John McCargo can finally make good on his vast potential, the Bills will be quite deep at this position.

4. Miami Dolphins - Jason Ferguson has been an excellent nose tackle in this league for a long time, but he's far closer to "relic" status than any other player at the position as well. Ferguson will be fine this year, but in their haste to address their weak defensive backfield in free agency, the Dolphins missed the boat on securing the future at their most important defensive position. (Not that they didn't need to fix their secondary.) The depth behind Ferguson consists of Tony McDaniel, Joe Cohen and Paul Soliai - not necessarily in that order. The depth isn't great, and while Ferguson is an exemplary pro and a great fit for the Bill Parcells defense, it nonetheless places Miami last on this list.

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Other rankings…

Phinsider: NE-BUF-MIA-NYJ
Pats Pulpit: NYJ-NE-BUF-MIA
Gang Green Nation: NYJ-NE-MIA-BUF

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"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy

by Brian Galliford on Jul 17, 2009 8:05 AM EDT reply actions

FYI – this is very convenient when you do that – I know we can – but you know when the article is posting so you can comment real quick

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying

by J2 on Jul 17, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Is it just me or do we always end up at the end of the list over at Gang Green nation? It seems to me that the only site that gives us a good amount of respect is the Phinsider. Pats Pulpit is ok depending on the topic, but we somehow always end up being the worst possible team in the world over on the Jets’ page. What gives?

by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 18, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions

I’d take stroud over afc east dt not named vince wikfork. Very athletic, strong, and a great leader to boot!

by Jay Mayne on Jul 17, 2009 8:39 AM EDT reply actions

Funny how only the Green picked themselves

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jul 17, 2009 8:41 AM EDT reply actions

you cant complain too much about Stroud and Williams

as long as our ends step up this year, our line could be very strong

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Jul 17, 2009 8:42 AM EDT reply actions

Obviously Gang Green Nation is the biggest homer of the group. No way you could say the Jets DT’s are better then NE. Not only is Wilfork dominate but Seymour slides down to tackle as well in certain situations. Miami’s DT’s are not better then the Bills either.

by gatornation on Jul 17, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions

I can't believe I'm arguing against my own guy...

…but I do believe Jenkins has a slight edge over Wilfork. Don’t get me wrong, Vince is a beast and both are pretty close when it comes to jamming the line, but I think Jenkins jams the line AND makes big plays consistently.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Jul 17, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions

my problem

with Jenkins is he wore down towards the end of the year and was not nearly as effective. as an example, the Bills torched the Jets to the tune of 187 yards on the ground (6.7 ypc) on 12/14.
Just looking at Jenkins play I don’t think he’s the best in the division. I believe Wilfork is the best DT in this division.

by gatornation on Jul 17, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions

My issue with Jenkins is that unlike Wilfork, he can and does get hurt every season which limits his utility to a team

Wilfork though is like a rock, always there, may get worn down a little, but not noticeable enough to warrant taking a look, and he gets moved like one too, not at all.

(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T

-textsfromlastnight.com

by WABillsfan on Jul 17, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Do bills fans have to thank wilfork at all?

i mean, i know it was a dirty play with his elbow to losman’s knee, but it did allow for trent to come into the game. How close was losman to getting benched prior to that, in favor of edwards?

by dragonwag0n on Jul 17, 2009 9:25 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

As much as I hate to admit it, i do think that we need to thank him. If it wasn’t for him, Trent would still be a #2 to whoever the Bills signed to replace Losman.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 18, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions

I find it interesting that even with the homerism that goes on in these rankings, when you average them they tend to come out pretty close to Brian’s numbers. For example, I don’t think that the Jet’s should be ranked last (as the Phinsider has them) but when you take all of their rankings (2-4-1-1) it averages out to 2, and second is where Brian had them, and where I think they belong. The Bills (3-2-3-4) come in at 2.5 – 3 is where Brian had them. The Pats (1-1-2-2) come in at 1.5, Brian had them first. And the Phins (4-3-4-3) come in at 3.5, Brian had them 4th. Within .5 for all of them.

It also works for the linebackers but since that was kind of boring I’ll skip right to the running backs.

Pats (4-4-1-4) comes out at 3.25, Brian had them 4th. Jets (1-3-2-1) comes out at 1.75, Brian had them at 1. Phins (3-1-3-3) comes out to 2.5, Brian had them at 3. And the Bills (2-2-4-2) comes out to 2.5, Brian had them at 2. These were all within .75.

That might not sound all that close but if you look at the rankings by, say, MaPats you’ll see he was 2.25 off the average in running backs (they ranked themselves first while everyone else ranked them last, they also ranked the Bills last while the Bills average came out to 2.5 making them 1.5 off there). Or the Phinsider who was 2 off the average on DTs (they ranked the Jets last when the average came out to second) and 2 off in RBs (they ranked themselves 1st while everyone else ranked them 3rd).

Brian and John from Gang Green tended to vote pretty similarly so John is also pretty close to the averages in his rankings. The only difference being that John has ranked his team first in two of the three rankings so far, where as Brian has yet to do that. My point being, not to detract from John, but it’s probably easier to rank teams when yours comes in first.

Wait, that wasn’t my real point, my real point was that Brian should start ranking us first, regardless of the category. I mean, it seems to be working for everyone else.

- TEMS

"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy

by TEMSON on Jul 17, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions

I like the way you think…

I may be biased, but I think that Brian has been much more honest in his assesments than some of the other teams.

by AussieBill on Jul 19, 2009 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Miami picked picked up an UDFA Nose.

He hasn’t proven himself yet, but it still deserves mention.

Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.

by joel311 on Jul 17, 2009 11:18 AM EDT reply actions

Why do you want to trade Ronnie Brown? You’d rather rely on Ricky Williams and….Patrick Cobbs?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Jul 18, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions

some people still do think Ricky can reclaim that 2002 magic.

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

by Patssuck456 on Jul 19, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions

After watching him play for the Toronto Argonauts, I’d say that there is almost not chance of that happening. He was average at best in the CFL, what makes you think he can return to being an NFL great?

by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 19, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions

He had a broken leg in Canada?

Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.

by joel311 on Jul 20, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Arm, sorry.

After that, he also messed up his Achilles tendon when a door hit him at the practice facility.

In his opening game in The CFL, he rushed for 97 yards on 18 carries, and caught two passes for 24 yards. A few weeks later, he was pretty much out for the season. Considering the CFL is a pass happy league due to their lack of a 4th down, how is 97 yards not spectacular? I find it hard to believe that those numbers, while great by NFL standards where a RB is utilized more often, are mediocre for The CFL.

Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.

by joel311 on Jul 20, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I was looking past the injuries. Because even when he was fully healthy, he wasn’t all that productive. And I’m not going to say that he didn’t have productive days, because he did, but they weren’t spectacular, or even impressive.

See ppl that that just because the CFL is a pass happy league it makes it hard for running backs to get a good amount of yards. What they forget is that because it’s a pass happy league, there are generally less LB’s on the feild. The 3-4 would never see the light of day in the CFL. And 2 LB packages are the norm of second downs. That actually makes it easier for running backs to get more yards on fewer runs. You’d be surprised to see how many run plays there are on second downs (the NFL’s equivilant of a third down) in the CFL.

A great CFL RB averages close to 6 yards per carry. Williams averaged 4.7 for the season. So like I said, average at best.

by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions

That's for shock value.

I only wanted him to be traded prior to the draft. And I wouldn’t even use the term “wanted”, more like I was open to the idea. Now that the draft is over, I’d like to keep him long term.

Many Dolphin fans have fallen in love with the name, rather than his accomplishments. Ask 10 Dolphin fans who the 5 best running backs in the league are, and 9/10 will include Ronnie Brown. I’m sorry, but I refuse to put Ronnie Brown in the same category as Adrian Peterson until he actually proves he belongs.

As for the other two: Ricky Williams still has at least one, probably two, strong years left due to his lack of mileage, and Patrick Cobbs may be the most underrated RB in the entire NFL. Cobbs only touched the ball 31 times last year, yet he took it to the house TWICE. One of which was an 80 yard reception. Look at his 2008 numbers:

Attempts Yards Avg Y/A

Rushing 12 88 7.3

Receiving 19 275 14.5

On top of showing up nearly every time he touched the ball, Patrick Cobbs is a great blocker. He is an all around back who is overshadowed by Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams. Mark my words, you will see a lot more of Patrick Cobbs in the future.

Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.

by joel311 on Jul 20, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions

The Bills signed 2 undrafted free agents. I’m sure the phinsider discussed them at length. Something tells me that Louis Ellis isn’t going to shift anyone’s opinions on how good Miami’s NTs are.

by kaisertown on Jul 18, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Notice that I only said it deserves mention,

not because every UDFA needs to be included in these, but because the author stated in absolutes that Miami “missed the boat” to secure a future NT. He even included free agency in the sentence before that. You can’t be 100% sure The Dolphins didn’t address their FUTURE need at NT, especially considering Parcells is the king at finding a diamond in the rough—Davone Bess and Dan Carpenter are both UDFAs.

Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.

by joel311 on Jul 20, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions

My take on the rankings

Phinsider: NE-BUF-MIA-NYJ
— Surprising to see BUF so high, esepcially when its from a Phin Head.

Pats Pulpit: NYJ-NE-BUF-MIA
— I disagree with MaPatsFan and actually would put NE back into the top spot, Jenkins is good, but not as durable as Wilfork.

Gang Green Nation: NYJ-NE-MIA-BUF
— See above for thoughts on Jets ranking, but I am surprised that he feels Miami’s DTs are better than Buffalos. I know its a different scheme and all that, but they have no depth past Ferguson, at least McCargo with a new DL coach can try and bounce back.

(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T

-textsfromlastnight.com

by WABillsfan on Jul 17, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions

i dont see how miami is not the consensus last place in this category

but ive been surprised often

Bills make me wanna SHOUT!

by silverstreak3k on Jul 17, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Matty just hates the Jets

as all of us Fin fans do.

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

by Patssuck456 on Jul 19, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with Brian …. again. I don’t think I’ve disagreed with a single one of his rankings yet.

Kris Jenkins might be a better player than Wilfork, but Vince is so much more consistent that I’d have to rank him in front of Jenkins. I don’t want to call Ferguson overrated, but he turns 35 this season and is undersized for the nose. Eventually that age/size combo is going to catch up to him and that decline is likely to be steep.

by kaisertown on Jul 18, 2009 1:07 AM EDT reply actions