Bills OT Bell a key figure along revamped O-Line
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 6:00 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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Most Buffalo Bills fans are keenly aware of the fact that the play of the offensive line is perhaps the second-most critical factor to a potent offensive attack. (It ranks behind quarterback play, of course - but one could argue even that.) New wide receiver Terrell Owens - the man most will credit success to if, in fact, the Bills are able to field a potent offense this coming season - is keenly aware that line play is critical, too. Langston Walker, Andy Levitre, Geoff Hangartner, Eric Wood and Brad Butler - the eyes of Bills Nation are watching very closely. (But only while you're on the field. Don't freak out.)
In overhauling a line that was all sorts of disappointing in 2008, the Bills focused predominantly on acquiring three qualities in their new players: toughness, intelligence and versatility. However, in trading away two-time Pro Bowl left tackle Jason Peters - and, more importantly, fixing the line with the best players and not focusing on replacing Peters - the Bills left themselves with the same depth chart at tackle, with the rather large exception of our now-former No. 71.
Let's imagine for a second that the current proposed line doesn't work. (This is where you pause for a moment, wonder painfully why I'd even bring that up, and reluctantly push on.) What happens then - particularly at tackle, where depth is largely unproven? That, Bills fans, is precisely why I consider second-year tackle Demetrius Bell a key element to the Bills' ability to field any solid offensive line this year.
Right now, Bell is best known for being the estranged son of former NBA star Karl Malone. That's a bit unfair, but until Bell gets the opportunity to make a name for himself, that's how he'll be recognized. What we do know about Bell deals in hypotheticals: he's got a world of talent, and the work ethic to help him capitalize on it.
Bell spent his rookie season hitting the weights and busting his butt on the practice field. One of the better athletes at his position in last year's draft, Bell lasted until the seventh round because at that point, he'd been playing football for only a handful of seasons. His raw ability and lack of polish made him a worthwhile project - yet a project nonetheless - for a Bills team that has had success turning late-round and free agent gems into solid linemen. (See: Peters, Jason.)
When Peters was traded in April, many experts expected the Bills to quickly replace the departed left tackle with a shiny new one via the draft. When that didn't happen, most expected the team to target a veteran such as former Bengals LT Levi Jones (who still doesn't have a team). That has not yet happened, either (and we don't think it will). A quick glance at Buffalo's depth chart reveals the only new offensive tackle on the team to be Nick Hennessey, an undrafted rookie free agent out of Colgate.
That tells you a lot about this coaching staff's confidence in Walker and Butler. It also speaks a great deal to their happiness with Bell's progress. Right now, veteran Kirk Chambers is considered the backup "swing" tackle; that is a role Bell has a chance to secure sometime during the season, particularly if Chambers is forced into action at one of the guard positions. Bell has the best pure talent level of any tackle on Buffalo's roster. There's a bit of a logjam in front of him on the depth chart, but don't be shocked if he ascends it anyways.
Chambers is the known commodity, and the Bills like him in the role he currently holds - a combination tackle/guard reserve. Bell is still an unknown, at least in terms of whether he can acquit himself well in live NFL action. If things don't go well with the Bills' line, and the team is forced to do a little re-shuffling, don't be shocked if Bell emerges as a starting candidate - particularly if Brad Butler is shifting away from his new home at right tackle.
Clearly, we don't want that to happen. We want the line to hit the ground running and turn into a competent unit. But the situation Bell is in right now is enviable - he has reportedly improved by leaps and bounds in the classroom and technique aspects of the game. He's a smart player, and you can bet that the coaches will take a long look at him this pre-season. (They'd better, at least, with five pre-season games on the schedule.) There is very little pressure on Bell right now - but if things run amiss with Plan A, Bell will very likely be a key figure in Plan B. That is invaluable to the coaches as they enter their most crucial season yet.
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No, that’s his weight when he first arrived at One Bills Drive and it hasn’t been updated. Chris Brown reported that he has gained 20 lbs. thanks to all his work in the weight room last year, which would make him around 327.
No, nothing has been confirmed that he is 327. He weighed in at 297 on his pro day, and either gained 10lbs during the year or came in at the 307. But to say “no he weighs 327” is inaccurate.
by Buffalonian on Jul 20, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I remember Chris Brown writing that he had gotten stronger, but I don’t remember him giving a specific number.
And even if he did throw 20 pounds out there, that doesn’t necessarily mean that he gained 20 pounds. A lot of the time teams say that their young players gained X pounds of muscle and part of that is lowered body fat. On an offensive lineman, especially one who’s been eating free college cafeteria food on scholarship, there is probably plenty of weight to lose/convert to muscle. Just to throw some convenient numbers out there, if you weighed 300 pounds and have 10% body fat, then you’ve got 30 pounds of fat. You could cut that in half while gaining 5 pounds and that’s a 20 pound muscle gain.
It’s anyone’s guess what he weighs, but he’s NFL sized. I don’t know if he has NFL calibre upper or lower body strength, but he’s definitely big enough. He’s a touch taller than 6’5’’ too, so he isn’t one of those guys listed taller to make him look better.
I think you hit on some very important points Brian. If your plan A is unproven, unpredictable, and unreliable – then your plan B becomes as important as your plan A. When you couple that with the possibility of injury, Bell goes from a fun developmental project to watch – to a possible savior to plan A.
The reason I use the word savior is because if he does well he will be depicted as a hero. If he doesn’t come through it will be because he wasn’t quite ready. Hence no pressure on Bell, just go get better big fella.
Bell will play even if the line does well
Brad Butler, a player I really like due to his mean streak, has yet to make it through an entire season. It’s a pretty good bet that he will go down at some point in the year and that, if Chambers is the (reserve) swing guard, Bell will substitute in for Butler. Bell might even be plugged into the line even if Chambers is available to be the swing tackle again.
If Bell does a good job and Wood and Levitre are developing nicely, Buffalo will have an interesting quandry to resolve; a talented lineman who can’t get (back) on the field. Wouldn’t that be a nice change of pace from previous years?
Where have ya been, Ron? Just waiting on an OL piece?!?!?!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
No, just got finished working 90 hours/week running a pair of summer camps. I’ve barely been able to glance at headlines, let alone make any comments. Happily, I’ve got the next couple of weeks (allegedly) off from work.
by Ron From NM on Jul 20, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Glad you're back.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't see McKinney as the reserve guard?
I do.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m surprised the Bills list him at 307. I met him last year, and the dude was not that “big” for an alleged 300 pounder. I wonder how much weight he actually put on.
Ron – did you get a chance to grade him at all last year?
No, he didn’t see any appreciable time against starters. He looked okay in the preseason games but then that was against 2nd and 3rd tier DEs.
by Ron From NM on Jul 20, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s interesting that in some ways, the swing tackle competition will be decided by special teams. The Bills will only keep 7 offensive lineman active on gamedays. Buffalo could keep both Chambers and Bell active and use Wood as the backup center, but I don’t think that’s something Jauron and co. would consider ideal. I’d be that McKinney and whoever is the better blocker on kick coverage will be part of the active 45. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of Bell or Chambers come in for an injured Butler and then see the other one as the starter the next week.
Either way, this is one competition that could really go either way and should be intersting to watch play out.
It HAS to be Chambers, at least initially. With a pair of rookie guards, I’d think the staff would rather keep two guys active that can play guard in a pinch, which is Bell and McKinney. Then again, didn’t we hear about Bell getting G reps?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I think I remember Bell getting reps at G last year, but I doubt it happens this year. My guess is that he’ll focus only on the T spot.
Do you really think the rookies could get benched mid game due to poor play? I guess we’ll find out if that’s a possibility during the preseason. I’m not sure it will be a factor. Chambers’ experience and versatility should give him an advantage, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Bell’s athleticism shine on special teams.
This is one of those rare moments where I don’t really have an opinion. This could be a pure training camp competition where the best performance, regardless of by how much, wins.
Do you really think the rookies could get benched mid game due to poor play?
Well if they are downright awful, then yeah. I don’t think they’d be anywhere near that bad, but ya never know.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Demetrius Bell is one of the young aspirants to keep a close eye on now when training camp embarks, and personally I have high expectations for him. To the Bills-fan, who doesn’t really know all that much about this unwritten leaf, I suggest they watch a little of this video about him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps02jh7IbZQ
As they correctly mention in the short and superficial clip, Bell didn’t begin playing football before 2005, and the fact that he’s already as good as he is now, really magnifies how good he can become with time and patience.
He possess terrific feet and has very solid size for a LT. He’s very bright, the way I heard it, and he’s also a hard-worker, who never takes anything for granted.
I believe we’ve found a diamond in the rough in Demetrius Bell, but only will tell if I’m right…
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jul 20, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah...
it’s a good video. Brian linked to it in the article.
What we do know about Bell deals in hypotheticals: he’s got a world of talent, and the work ethic to help him capitalize on it.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Bell does really well this preseason
I hope he does so well that he wins the starting job. I hope he does so well that he wins the starting LT spot so we can move Walker and Butler back to their old spots were they belong. I hope people are not counting on Bell to be the next Jason Peters, at least this season.
“Hope is a waking dream.” – Aristotle
"I BET YOU IF WE PUT A 12 DOZEN GLAZE DONUTS AT THE OTHER END ON KICK RETURN JAIME DUKES WILL BE OUR NUM # 1 RETURNER …… HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES DUKE APPLE PIE PUNKEN EATER DWINKE SMASHER DING DONG FLABER" - abayarde
I have no expectations for Bell…..How can we? He’s never taken an NFL snap, he came into the league raw and in need of more strength and coaching, and is probably the 4th OT right how.
I can’t see Chambers not being the swing Tackle right now, with McKinney as the backup G/C. We’ll go with 7 active on gamedays, most likely, as kaiser mentions, as we always have. Bell will likely continue being inactive until someone ahead of him misses time. If the season goes as Jauron seasons go, I’d have no problem getting Bell a ton of playing time in the second half of the season. I think that’s where we’ll see him this year, barring an injury or two. I just think Chambers and McKinney will see the field before Bell. I would believe that if we see two interior linemen injured, those two will come in, and if we see a tackle injury Chambers will come in. If we see an injury to an interior player and a tackle, we’ll see them too. The only way I see Bell coming in earlier in the season if a pair of tackle injuries.
Let’s imagine for a second that the current proposed line doesn’t work. (This is where you pause for a moment, wonder painfully why I’d even bring that up, and reluctantly push on.)
Will it matter then? If the current proposed OL fail, won’t the season more than likely already be screwed? I don’t think the 4th OT is going to come in and save the season.
What happens then – particularly at tackle, where depth is largely unproven? That, Bills fans, is precisely why I consider second-year tackle Demetrius Bell a key element to the Bills’ ability to field any solid offensive line this year.
I don’t think he’s really a key element at all. He’s probably the 8th OL right now, at least until he can prove himself during the preseason. Kirk Chambers seems to be the more important guy for this season. Bell would be more important for the future.
There is very little pressure on Bell right now – but if things run amiss with Plan A, Bell will very likely be a key figure in Plan B.
I think Bell is Plan C, with Chambers as Plan B. Again, at least until the 2nd half of the season at the earliest.
That is invaluable to the coaches as they enter their most crucial season yet.
I don’t think the coaches would want to hitch their future to Bell unless they absolutely have to….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I don’t think he’s really a key element at all. He’s probably the 8th OL right now, at least until he can prove himself during the preseason. Kirk Chambers seems to be the more important guy for this season. Bell would be more important for the future.
In terms of pure tackles, Bell and Walker are really the only ones on the roster. Maybe you want to include Chambers and/or Butler there because it’s their “natural” position. But the fact that Bell is so talented and has made such quick strides is going to play a role.
Really, it would hypothetically come down to who causes the line to fail. But the fact that he’s pretty unique kind of trumps the “he’s the eighth OL” dismissal card. If there is ANY sort of shuffle, he WILL factor in at tackle – and I think he does so BEFORE Chambers.
I don’t think the coaches would want to hitch their future to Bell unless they absolutely have to….
Clearly – if it were otherwise, the projected line would look different. But I think you’re underselling their confidence in Bell. They really, really like him.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
But the fact that Bell is so talented and has made such quick strides is going to play a role.
….in practice. The guy hasn’t played an NFL down, so we’ll have to hope he can turn those quick strides into actual competent play.
You really think a guy who’s never played and was extremely raw last year would be the next tackle in line? How come?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You really think a guy who’s never played and was extremely raw last year would be the next tackle in line? How come?
I only said that with the caveat that there is a re-shuffle. If, for example, Butler goes down for a game or two AND Chambers hasn’t had to fill in elsewhere, Bell would get the call. I’m only saying he’s next in line at OT IF their Plan A line is shot to sunshine.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It's going to depend on how he does in the preseason.
I like all of Brian’s analysis, but to sum things up I would say that everything depends on what kind of preseason Bell has. My guess is that the coaches are trying to be very careful about putting too much pressure on him. They want to give him another year to get ready if he needs it. But if he demonstrates during the preseason contests that he is ready now, they will either make him the #3 OT or possibly even move him in as a starter. The thing to remember is that, when fully developed, he is likely going to be a much, much better OT than either Walker or Butler. If he’s there now, why not use him and let Butler go back to RG, which allows Kugler to avoid playing a rookie (Levitre)? If he’s close, make him your top reserve OT. If he still has some distance to go, then let him play in spot situations to give him some real NFL experience this year but otherwise give him time to grow. I’ll bet that’s their thinking on him.
The preseason is big for Bell, no doubt about it. He can prove he is competent and worthy of getting real snaps if needed. Unfortunately, he’ll probably be facing 2nd and 3rd stringers all preseason, so that might not help us all that much. Hopefully, Bell will get the chance to go up against some starting DE’s this preseason, obviously with Trent on the sidelines.
You are very right in Bell’s ceiling being SO MUCH higher than any other tackle’s on the roster. His potential is probably as great as any young OT in the league, actually. With his size and athleticism, he could really develop into a very good player. It’s the mental aspect along with the technique and repetitions that he needs to get down.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Wait, if Chambers hasn’t filled in when Butler goes down, why wouldn’t he get the call? I think I’d rather have the experienced guy in there, at least if a good season is still in reach. Am I misreading this situation? Probably…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
That’s what I said. If Chambers isn’t playing guard, he’d play OT for Butler. If Chambers is playing guard, Bell would play.
And again, the only way that changes is if the Plan A line doesn’t work and they re-work the whole thing.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If, for example, Butler goes down for a game or two AND Chambers hasn’t had to fill in elsewhere, Bell would get the call.
I guess I was misunderstanding this one!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Ah, that would be because I’m dumb. Should say “AND Chambers HAS had to fill in elsewhere”. My bad.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhhh, there we go! Makes more sense
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You really think a guy who’s never played and was extremely raw last year would be the next tackle in line?
Well Levitre and Wood never played an NFL down. However, they might be more NFL ready.
But I see no reason why he couldn’t come in and play as the swing if the coaches feel he’s ready. He knows the system, seems to work hard – I agree that we’d like to see him play before we make our decisions – but we can also make some sort of educated guess based off of various reports on his continued development as to progress. Clearly it seems he has progressed well enough to the point that we have heard good things. I’m also sure they’ve factored him into the Peters equation when they got rid of him.
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
I don’t think Wood and Levitre are anywhere near as raw as Bell was/is. In fact, if Wood/Levitre are raw at all, I’d be surprised.
I hope Bell is a player and I hope these reports of his improvement aren’t just limited to shorts and t-shirts. I hope he gets there fast too, because we really need to develop a LT and it’d be excellent if the former 7th rounder turned out to be that guy. I just don’t know if I can believe he’ll be ready to perform at a relatively high level this year after getting no snaps last year and having a lot of work to be done. We’ll see, but I’ll remain cautiously hopeful he can help this year.
I’m also sure they’ve factored him into the Peters equation when they got rid of him.
I’m guessing that Bell didn’t play much into that decision. He’s not exactly starting after all. Peters forced his way out, that’s the crux of it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I’m guessing that Bell didn’t play much into that decision
whoops – your right – I meant the draft equation – not peters equation.
I think Wood is ready – not sure on Levitre because I haven’t heard much…..
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Agreed on your second statement there. Wood seems ready to be a solid starter from the get go. Levitre had many more questions surrounding him, and still does.
I just hope both can start right away, and perform ably. The last thing we need is a pair of rookie interior linemen who struggle mightily inhibiting our run game and pass protection…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
To my mind there are as many (or more) questions about Levitre than there are about Bell. A lot of the scouts were saying that he needs a full year in an NFL conditioning program before he will be ready to start (his upper-body strength is lacking and he can get pushed around in the running game). Also, there was concern about how quick and athletic he really is and how well he will be able to pull and trap.
That’s why I think Bell may be more of a factor than folks realize. If Levitre doesn’t look that good during preseason games for the reasons I just mentioned, and if Bell really shines in those games, Kugler may be tempted to put Butler back at RG and start Bell at RT. Either way (Levitre or Bell) you are starting someone with no NFL playing time to date.
My point is NOT that it is likely that Bell will start. As Brian says, going with Levitre and Butler is still Plan A. My point is that Plan A could easily turn out to be shaky. And if Bell excels during the preseason (which is possible), that could change everyone’s calculations. It’s going to be interesting watching this develop.
There’s absolutely no concern about how quick or athletic Levitre is. That’s his greatest asset.
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.
you watch him? any other info?
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Jul 20, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVwc8OR0NCk
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.
That’s not what I read about him prior to the draft. He was said to have a great hand punch, do a good job of anchoring, and play with that proverbial “mean streak” — all desirable traits in a Guard. But he doesn’t move that well in space. Not that he is a straight-ahead bulldozer type, but he has trouble getting to the second level on a pulling assignment, etc. (one of Brad Butler’s strongest abilities as a Guard).
Let me be clear: I am NOT saying that he can’t be a very good o-lineman in the NFL. However, it may be that he will need a year of conditioning and coaching before he is really ready to start.
The thing I heard from a kid who played with Levitre is just how athletic he was for being so big. Granted, this came from a DB, so his version of big may be relative. Arm length was also an “issue.” In any event, he’s “supposed” to have some quality movement.
Scott Wright's take
Here is what Scott Wright has to say about Levitre’s movement skills on www.nfldraftcountdown.com: “Not a great athlete” — “Isn’t very quick” — “struggles in space.” He says that Levitre has “Decent mobility and range.” That’s not the same as “Good mobility and range” or “Very Good” (which is where I would peg Brad Butler). As we have observed several times on this blogsite, Scott Wright is an unusually trustworthy judge of talent.
I repeat: I am not at all saying that Levitre was a draft mistake on the part of the Bills. Rather, I’m calling attention to the apparent fact that he has some limitations and may not be ready to start right away as a rookie. I’m also suggesting that he may be as much of a risk as a starter this coming year as Demetrius Bell would be (by comparison, I don’t see Eric Wood as a significant risk at all). How risky the two of them are is something we (and the coaches) will only know after they have had the chance to practice in pads and play in some preseason games.
the video is meaningless
What exactly does the video mean? It doesn’t compare Levitre with other o-linemen coming out of college last year (which is what Wright was doing). Sure he is a good athelete if he has managed to get to this point in his sport, but the question is how does he stack up against other guys who play Guard at the NFL level. That’s what Wright was talking about in his remark “Not a Great Athlete.”
If Levitre/McKinney/Chambers falter at RG...the starting O-Line by Week 17?
Bell, Wood, Hangman, Butler, Walker….I said it first (I have no qualms about being the first idiot to say something stupid) : )
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 20, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
Actually, it’d be those three failing at left guard. Wood is the right guard.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Future for Bell
As down as I am on Walker playing LT, I beleive Bell is our future.
Quote me on this though, “Bell will not start at LT this season”. Let’s hold off any aspirations of Walker being the answer this year. The reason the coaching staff has stuck Walker in at LT is that it is (next to Center) the most complicated position on the line. Typically you are playing in space and having to deal with stunts, etc. of the DL. Furthermore, there is no room for error. I kind of wish that they left Butler inside and let Bell attempt to win the spot at RT. Butler played very well inside, and I think we might be making a mistake moving him to the outside. Of course this might still happen if one of the rookies can’t nail their respective spots at G.
"It's that time of the year where all teams are involved in making some, to a degree, painful decisions." - Marv Levy
by Jason from OH-IO on Jul 20, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions
I, as I’m sure all of you, would love it if Bell turned out to be a serviceable NFL OT. If I’m being really optimistic I imagine him being dominant one day. Unfortunately, as it stands right now I can’t believe that he’s really going to factor into our plans for this year because he’s never even taken a snap. I’d love to be wrong but it looks like everyone is just basing their opinions on what some coaches have said. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying these coaches are lying or anything, but what would you really expect a coach to say? “Bell is at least 2 seasons away from being NFL ready”? What coach is ever saying that about one of his players?
Again, I’d love to be wrong, but I’m not going to be convinced until I SEE Bell making huge improvements, being told about these improvements just seems a little flaky at best. As it stands, Bells potential readiness for NFL play this year is hearsay, show us some real evidence.
- TEMS
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
Some people really think if Bell has a strong preseason he will be the opening day LT and the whole line will be reworked prior to the season? No way. Barring injury the line will stay the same until the bye. If the bye week comes and Buffalo’s O Line has been as bad as some feared you could see a complete revamp and Bell getting his shot – I just don’t see him going to LT to begin with.
Barring injury the starting O Line is set except the McKinney vs. Levitre vs. Chambers debate at LG. There will be no grand switcheroo if Bell is amazing during the preseason.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Matt, no one thinks Bell is going to open at LT. The question is RT, and that in turn depends on what happens at LG. There are significant question marks about all three contenders at that position — McKinney (who is really a veteran back-up player, not a full-season starter), Levitre (who may need a year of preparation before he is ready to start in the NFL) and Chambers (who has been an OT for most of his football career). If Sean Kugler is not happy with what is happening at LG and if Bell does have a strong preseason, then, as Brian put it, we could see a switch to Plan B, which would mean Bell at RT and Butler at LG (or Butler going back to RG and Wood moving to LG). It’s not the most likely scenario, but it is nonetheless a live possibility.
I actually think that I prefer Plan B to Plan A in this scenario. As long as Bell has a good camp and pre-season anyways.
It basicly comes down to two possible lines:
Plan A: Walker – Levitre – Hangartner – Wood – Butler —very good, but Levitre is a weak spot and I’m overly confident about Levitre or McKinney at LG and I would honestly prefer to keep Chambers as the swing OT, he’s a terrific backup and I want to keep him for a replacement for the inevitable injuries.
Plan B: Walker – Butler – Hangartner – Wood – Bell — I think that this will be our line by the end of the season and if Bell performs to the level that we all hope he can, it will also be our best possible line for this seaon, IMO. It would have a VERY strong left side and if the right side starts to show weakness we can always switch Wood and Butler.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t like the Plan B for several reasons.
- It’s hard moving from the right side to the left. It’s one thing moving Walker; it’s quite another moving Walker AND Butler, particularly after Butler spent months learning pass sets for the right side of the line.
- Wood will be at his best right where he is. Until he’s moved back to center at some point down the line, that is.
- For the 2009 season, Levitre has a much better chance to play consistent ball than Bell. That fact alone makes the Plan A a more desirable option. That’s why it’s Plan A.
I like Bell as much as the next guy, but he doesn’t belong on the field yet.
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by Brian Galliford on Jul 21, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think we know yet about #3 since neither Bell nor Levitre has ever taken an NFL regular season snap. Yes, there are some reasons for thinking that Levitre will be more consistent, but there are also some significant reasons for thinking that of Bell. Bell has, after all, had the benefit of a full year on a regular NFL roster. He knows the offense much better than Levitre does at this point. Most important, Bell has been in the Bills conditioning program for a full year — something Levitre should ideally do before he becomes a starter. On the other hand, OT is a much more important position in terms of pass protection than OG and you don’t want to take risks there.
I’m also not convinced that Wood can’t do perfectly well at LG. I see him as extremely talented, which should make him pretty adaptable. It would be better not to switch him, but it doesn’t seem like a huge obstacle to me, and as you point out it would be better to put Butler at RG if Bell starts at RT.
I’m not necessarily advocating Plan B. I’m just saying that I hope the team will look carefully at how these various o-line guys perform in the first half of TC and make whatever changes are necessary to ensure that the best five are on the field on opening day.
How about plan C
Walker – Wood – Hangartner – Butler – Bell
In a perfect world, I would like to see plan D
Bell – Wood – Hangartner – Butler – Walker ….. because I really would like Walker and Butler to stay together based how they performanced last year.
"I BET YOU IF WE PUT A 12 DOZEN GLAZE DONUTS AT THE OTHER END ON KICK RETURN JAIME DUKES WILL BE OUR NUM # 1 RETURNER …… HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES DUKE APPLE PIE PUNKEN EATER DWINKE SMASHER DING DONG FLABER" - abayarde
I really like plan D as well, but I think were at least a full season off from seeing it. and at that point, if Bell fully mature the way that Peters did, and Levitre shows that he belongs, Walker might become entirely obsolete on our line.
lets call it Plan E (for 2010): Bell – Levitre – Hangartner – Wood – Butler
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a hard time seeing Walker become obsolete on this line for the forseeable future…
As others have written, he’s the only other pure tackle on this roster besides Bell.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Not to mention, arguably the best OL we have on the team. It’s between him and Butler (obviously) until someone else shows something.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’ll entirely agree about that RIGHT NOW. and he probably still will be in 2010. But beyond that, I have trouble seeing him in a Bills uniform.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
He’s hitting 30 before this year’s season opener, so the Bills may not want to re-up past 2010. Depends on who else they can bring in before then.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
I disagree. I think it only depends on how Bell develops. If he turns into the second coming of Jason Peters (minus the 11.5 sacks) then Walker is gone after his contract is over. If Bell flops, Walker stay for a much longer period of time.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Even starting him at RT still involves reworking the entire line and I think Matt’s right that there’s no way that’s happening. If levitre isn’t ready, then Chambers or McKinney will start there. I really doubt that Buffalo shifts multiple players around unless they determine that Levitre isn’t ready a full few weeks before the season starts.
No one is talking about giving up on him forever. The question is whether he is ready to start right away as a rookie. Levitre is going to be a valuable member of the Bills’ o-line for years to come. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that he will be the right choice for starting LG in 2009. Whether he is or isn’t should be a lot more clear by the middle of August.
So you think it’s realistic that Buffalo could be confident enough that Levitre isn’t ready, to shift Brad Butler back to guard in mid/late August?
I know I don't think it is
If anything, they’d leave him in longer than they should if he struggles hoping he improves and gets more comfortable….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
They won't move Butler in August.
If they do all the offseason was wasted. If someone other than Levitre is at LG it will be McKinney or Chambers unless Bell has been getting work at LG.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
They will leave him there to start the season.
You don’t spend six months getting a guy ready to play a spot and give up after a few preseason games.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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