A closer examination of Buffalo's 3-4 defensive wrinkle
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 1:15 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintArguably the most important question surrounding the Buffalo Bills right now is whether or not the team can improve its historically awful pass rush. We have discussed at great length how the Bills have tried to fix the issue - i.e. drafting Penn State DE Aaron Maybin in the first round of this past April's NFL Draft. Getting a (hopefully) healthy Aaron Schobel back for (hopefully) a full season will help too. Over the past couple of days, however, another development has taken over Bills conversation: the use of the 3-4 defense.
NFL.com's Pat Kirwan briefly mentioned the development over the weekend. A few of you discussed the idea here during the same time frame. In order to clarify a few things about the likely predominance of the scheme and why it's being implemented (which, I should mention, Kurupt did a nice job of doing in the linked post above), here's how we see the 3-4 playing out in Buffalo next season.
The goals
The first thing that should be noted is that, for those of you who secretly (or not-so-secretly) wish that the Bills played a 3-4, personnel be damned, your wish won't be granted. You're going to see a zone-based 4-3 look on ninety percent of defensive plays this year. Keep that fact firmly entrenched in your mind as you go forward.
There are two predominant reasons to install a 3-4 wrinkle, and they rather go hand-in-hand: to diversify the scheme and to create a better pass rush. Generally, one of those leads to the other and vice versa. Buffalo is probably going to have only one new starter defensively - second year CB Leodis McKelvin - and that experience in the scheme is going to help immensely.
As mentioned at the top, the pass rush is the life blood of any NFL defense (that's especially true of the Tampa 2), and the Bills haven't had one in quite some time. It's a bit obvious to say, but the critical points at which Buffalo hasn't been able to generate a pass rush - i.e. passing situations as the Bills are trying to protect leads, or while trying to force a turnover or two while playing from behind - are when we'll see the 3-4 this year. We won't see it every time the Bills find themselves in those scenarios. It's something for the arsenal, and it's there purely to generate pressure on opposing quarterbacks. It will help one player in particular...
Potential personnel
... and that player is Maybin. Buffalo is asking an awful lot from their top draft pick. He has already revealed that he'll be taking reps at linebacker during training camp; this 3-4 wrinkle is why. The biggest concern surrounding Maybin is his college experience and whether he's polished enough as a player to consistently separate from blockers in his first NFL season. Concerned about the potential downfall of leaving him in the trenches, this wrinkle lets Maybin stand up, move around, and utilize his one tangible asset more freely - his outstanding first-step quickness.
From there, the personnel groupings are fairly easy to figure out. Some players' roles are clearly defined; Marcus Stroud would line up exclusively over center (the "nose guard"), and Paul Posluszny isn't leaving the inside linebacker post. Pass-rushing options from the standing position include Schobel and linebacker Kawika Mitchell, who was by far Perry Fewell's blitzer of choice in 2008. Schobel can also play down on the line; meanwhile, Mitchell could also shift inside next to Posluszny. Fellow defensive tackles Kyle Williams and Spencer Johnson could play defensive end, though if it's pass rush that's desired, we figure Ryan Denney and possibly Chris Kelsay have a better shot at seeing playing time.
And there, folks, lies perhaps the important point - there are a lot of options, even after lining the players up. Where does the rush come from? How are protections altered to deal with the look? This 3-4 wrinkle is nothing more or less than a means to playing to the strengths of their not-undertalented personnel. Keeping it in perspective is important - as mentioned, this is nothing but an extra look. But the idea has so much promise that it's exciting. Perhaps most exciting, however, is the idea that, like the offense installing the no-huddle, Buffalo's defensive coaches are looking at ways to get the most out of their players.
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Would Maybin ever line up as a rush LB in a 4-3 scheme on passing downs? He and Kawika would make a pretty nice pass rush from both sides of the ball.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
depends on the opponent and circumstance
since it would mean that only 4 DBs and one LB in coverage (if you rushed both Mitchell and Maybin) the Bills would have to be in a lead and perhaps playing against a weaker receiving corps.
The Bills CAN win any game
I like the idea of just saying it even if they have no intention of implementing it just to give the Pats something more to gameplan against in week one.
by NolaBillsFan on Jul 20, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Had a dream Maybin sacks Brady this year...
but it was in home uniforms and at night. So unless the Pats wear white in the opener, which they might, then that means our last game with them will be a flex game at home…who knows
The Bills CAN win any game
by killascript on Jul 21, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Or a playoff home game!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
A playoof home game against the Pats? Now that would be driving the 9 hours down to Buffolo for. I would love to see that game!
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions
i love this
complacency in the coaching and playcalling has killed us the last couple of seasons so its great to see that on both sides of the ball our traditionally conservative coach is willing to experiment and let his coordinators try some new things out.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
Agreed to a point
The complacency was for the most part on offense. I do have to hand it to Perry, in that when our team played well the first third of the season, he was using the stand-up defensive line approach. I like using Trent’s best asset; his brain (no huddle) and our defenses best asset; versatility. People have criticized Buffalo’s FO for drafting and moving guys around, but I think it only allows you to play that hybrid defense that makes the Patriots so successful. I hate the Patriots, but having guys that can play multiple positions, can allow us to play 3-4, 4-3, stand up d-line, three safeties with Scott in the box, etc.
by hilliarddavid on Jul 20, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Having only added Maybin to improve the talent at DE, the team has to be creative to find ways to get to the passer. It’s obvious that the Denney, Kelsay and Schobel trio hasn’t been working the past few years, so finding new ways to get the most of these guys is absolutely what needs to be done. I commend the coaches for trying to do this and working on it now.
I just hope it works. Maybin really is the key. If he isn’t ready to contribute early, this whole thing probably won’t happen. We need him to provide some sort of impact, even if it’s just the occasional pressure. That’s more than we usually get anyways.
Question….if we do go with 4 “linebackers” here with Maybin standing up and rushing, Mitchell playing the middle or blitzing, and Poz manning the middle, who else will line up as a “LB”? Schobel? If it’s Mitchell, then it’s not really a 3-4 is it? With certain passing situations, won’t we be seeing 5 or 6 DB’s anyhow? Will this 3-4 be more of a 3-3 (or a 3-2) with a NT, 2 DE’s and Maybin (and maybe Mitchell) rushing from the LB position? I can’t imagine we’ll have a front 7 in there when it’s 3rd and 10, instead of 5+ DB’s….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
If it’s Mitchell, then it’s not really a 3-4 is it?
What? :)
If Schobel plays LB, it’s Maybin-Poz-Mitchell-Schobel.
If Schobel plays DE, it’s Maybin-Poz-Ellison-Mitchell.
It’s a 3-4 either way…
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, why would Ellison be in there? I thought we were trying to get after the QB!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Why do all of the players need to be pass rushers for that to happen? You’ve got to have someone in short coverage…
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought that’s why Poz would be on the field? If it was a 5th DB or Ellison in passing situations, I’d take the DB 800% of the time.
After thinking about it, this 3-4 seems kind of odd if it means we’re not putting 5 DB’s on the field in certain passing situations….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
After thinking about it, this 3-4 seems kind of odd if it means we’re not putting 5 DB’s on the field in certain passing situations….
I guess that means we may see this defense against teams that are more pass oriented, like the Pats or Saints, for example.
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.
After thinking about it, this 3-4 seems kind of odd if it means we’re not putting 5 DB’s on the field in certain passing situations…
Well, I mean, if it’s 3rd and 5 and they’ve got 3 wideouts…
And hey – Bryan Scott could line up inside next to Poz, too, and it wouldn’t be close to the end of the world. You could even conceivably slide Whitner down there.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does all this discussion
remind me of the saying, “If you think you have two starting QBs, you don’t have one starting QB”? A some point, versatility becomes a nice way of saying not very good at your position. People seem quick to praise the coaching staff for being creative with personnel, but hasn’t this staff had going on 4 years to actually get players that should excel at the position they were hired to play? Some DEs can play LB….. I get that, but good Lord….every position in the front seven is not interchangeable.
"I BET YOU IF WE PUT A 12 DOZEN GLAZE DONUTS AT THE OTHER END ON KICK RETURN JAIME DUKES WILL BE OUR NUM # 1 RETURNER …… HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES DUKE APPLE PIE PUNKEN EATER DWINKE SMASHER DING DONG FLABER" - abayarde
but hasn’t this staff had going on 4 years to actually get players that should excel at the position they were hired to play?
Yes, but what can we do now? The staff and front office hasn’t done a good of getting top talent for years now. If we had better players, and better pass rushers, they wouldn’t be doing this. Unfortunately, we have to give them credit for trying whatever they can to get better production. That’s all we’ve got at this point!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I get trying Maybin at LB in our 4-3 or as an extra LB in a "3-4",
but Stroud is not a 3-4 NT, Whitner is not a LB, etc. What can we do now? Come up with a good game plan, call a good game defensively, mix up the blitzes, disguise coverages, etc.
I don’t blame the coaches for trying everything…they are fighting for their jobs, but I hope they don’t forget to play to the strength of our defense (whatever they think that is) rather than trying to force the defense to play in a scheme they were not meant to play for the sake of getting a rookie DE on the field because they think he is the only playmaker in the front seven. If the rest of those guys are really that bad and the coaching staff knows it, they should all be fired right now for not fixing it much sooner.
"I BET YOU IF WE PUT A 12 DOZEN GLAZE DONUTS AT THE OTHER END ON KICK RETURN JAIME DUKES WILL BE OUR NUM # 1 RETURNER …… HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES DUKE APPLE PIE PUNKEN EATER DWINKE SMASHER DING DONG FLABER" - abayarde
Stroud is not a 3-4 NT, Whitner is not a LB
Re: Stroud. NO NT plays in these situations. Vince Wilfork is not in on third-and-long.
Re: Whitner. No one’s saying he is. He lines up in the middle of the field and drops back into coverage. Is he really a LB if he does that?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 21, 2009 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Re: Stroud. NO NT plays in these situations. Vince Wilfork is not in on third-and-long.
It would be nickel or dime on third and long, not 3-4. I think Joe is trying to say we don’t have the right players to play a classic 3-4 and I’ll agree with him. You have some good ideas but they seem to be “nickel and dime stuff”. : )
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.
Well, If Whitner or Scott are lined up like a LB, then aren’t we in nickel?
And this isn’t something you are going to see with any regularity. Nobody is going to be able to predict, 3rd and 10, time for the 3-4. So maybe Fewell is finally going to rush more than 5 on occasion. Or maybe this isn’t a third and long, scenario, but it’s still an obvious pass down like 2nd and 10+ or 3rd and 5 or 6. You don’t always have to be in the nickel when you think the offense is going to pass.
Well, If Whitner or Scott are lined up like a LB, then aren’t we in nickel?
Isn’t that what I said?
You don’t always have to be in the nickel when you think the offense is going to pass.
No but ,usually, you should be.
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.
LOL, well, they’re not my ideas, are they?
Basically they’ll be using a 3-man front in passing situations. Obviously we don’t have the personnel to run a classic 3-4, but that’s never been the point – we’re NOT running a classic 3-4.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 21, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Any chance Ellis fits in there sometime? Not that I take Chris Brown on his word but apparently Ellis has been working hard – maybe this would be a situation where he could get on the field.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
I commend the coaches for trying to do this and working on it now.
Just one word – wow.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, they’re doing something for once instead of remaining complacent and letting others dictate what happens….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Exactly.
Let’s hope it changes the wins and losses for the better.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
How is this all that much better than the ‘milling around’ defense we’ve seen off and on for the past couple of years?
That defense has worked on occasion, and we’re likely to see it again. Not sure how it applies to this though. As mentioned… just another option.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Jul 20, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll believe it when I see it
It seems like there is always some new change or wrinkle talked about by this coaching staff in the offseason that will be sprinkled in during the season. These “wrinkles” have always been given stated purposes like “maximizing talent” or “confusing the opponent” but it seems to me that when the real bullets start flying, Jauron & Co. back off of these statements and return to their conservative roots giving canned excuses whenever asked about their previous intentions.
Examples I can point to in recent seasons:
-No Huddle/Hurry-up offense (outside of 2 minute situations). This was a story line last year also!
-Throwing more deep balls
-Involving the TE more in the offense
-Throwing more passes to the RB’s
-Getting the ball in Roscoe Parrish’s hands more
-Being less predictable and scoring more in the red zone
Now I realize that there is a myriad of reasons why these things either never materialized or were tried but ended up being non-factors. (The notable exception to this was throwing to the RB’s last season but if you remember this was supposed to be a big part of Lynch’s game coming into his rookie season yet he only caught 18 passes that year). The point remains that all of this talk means diddly-squat. Give the coaching staff credit for at least thinking creatively in the offseason but I remain skeptical until things materialize when it counts.
Please feel free to add to my list of what I will call “Offseason Pipe Dreams”.
I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?
by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Jul 20, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions
I’m with you OJIMB. Throughout the last year, many people have been pining for a 3-4. Frankly the system doesn’t matter nearly as much as two other things: 1. caliber of players, and 2. How the coaches use the players and the system to attack each offense.
I don’t think the Bills have either the caliber of players or the caliber of coaches to make a difference which system is run.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jul 20, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well last year they did have more receptions by the RBs and Robert Royal had a bunch of catches (and fumbles). The other two specific things you cite, last year’s no huddle talk and the deep balls, were reportedly scrapped when Peters didn’t show up on time (no huddle) and when teams dropped 8 into coverage. Plus you can’t go deep and get the ball to RBs more and use the TE more. There are only so many throws to go around.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly....
don’t know what took our defensive coaches so long to diversify their portfolio. I’m very pleased the Bills are adding a new look. The Bills have a lot of potential in a 3-4 alignment. I think the best group in the front seven would be Maybin, Johnson, Stroud, Denney, Schobel, then Poz and Mitchell manning the middle together. Or put DiGi in the middle and kick Mitchell outside. That would be a pretty tough group to slow down… each player has pass-rushing ability. It’s a good group, but as stated above it would not/could not be a mainstay on the D. There are way too many liabilities in coverage for that.
But the 3-4 + the “Creep” look (no down lineman) mixed in with the base 4-3 should be challenging for opposing OLs.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
How many times did they use the “Creep” last year? Why am I drawing a blank on that toward the end of the season?
Injuries
When Schobel went down they stopped using it for a while, it was used sparingly after that, but with less success.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 20, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Fewell
did kind of give up on it, which irritated me. You have to be creative on defense, especially when our DEs aren’t going to beat anyone with just athleticism… at least until now maybe.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
by ForeignArrow on Jul 20, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Great idea...
This 3-4 idea has alot of promise… I like the way that the coordinators are getting creative… With teams like the Patriots to play twice a year, it’s great to see that opposing QB’s just might have to start expecting the unexpected…
BILLS RULE !
by chaosthepitbull on Jul 20, 2009 5:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i must be missing something. why not have kawika stay outside and put digi inside? he’s not amazing, but he’d do a good job inside as long as he wasn’t there forever. is it because kawika’s better against the run than the pass?
DiGi isn’t good against the pass. It’s conceivable he could play well inside, though.
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill.
I totally forgot about Digi. Yeah he would be a great option to put on the inside with Puz.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
during his time playing, i’ve thought he had a decent head on his shoulders and was stout against the run. he’s as good of a backup LB as you’ll find in the league, when he’s healthy.
by the_prophet on Jul 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rush him, though.
Just blitz the guy with Mitchell and Maybin on a sell out.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
One of K’s comments above (on taking an extra CB in the secondary of having Ellisson on the feild) made me think that maybe Maybin could also be used well in a 3-3-5 package too. We could have Schobel, Stroud and Denney on the line, Mitchell, Puz and Maybin at LB and have 5 in our secondary. I’d say that might actually be a more favorable package then using a 3-4, especially with the debth that we have at CB.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 3:27 AM EDT reply actions
That’s what I think they’ll be doing. Why would we throw a 4th LB (Ellison) on the field instead of a DB in passing situations? That wouldn’t make sense to me….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
especially considering that our fifth DB – be it corner, florence, or youboty – is almost definitely a better overall athlete than ellison. not to knock ellison, but those guys are just more talented.
by the_prophet on Jul 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
My point exactly. I mean with the enviable depth that we have at DB, why wouldn’t we be using 5 of them. Here’s the way I see it:
DL: Schobel – Stroud – Kelsey/Denney
LB: Mitchell – Puz – Maybin
DB: McGee – Youboty – Byrd – Whitner – McKelvin
Looks like a great pass stopping package to me. But it would also be inviting the delayed run plays up the middle too.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
There are lots of different passing situations. Don’t teams pass most of the time on 3rd and 4? Why not leave Ellison out there to handle a short zone, but provide solid run support (insert comments about Scott being better at that here) in case a team does run.
We shouldn’t get caught up in which specific players are going to be out there, because Buffalo isn’t going to have a set situation to use a formation like this in. What they should do is have 5 or 6 different lineups ready to go for a couple dozen different game situations.
I think people – more concretely Bills-fans of course – are getting a little too rilled up about DJ stating to Pat Kirwan that we’re going to run a bit 3-4 in the upcoming season. Coaches and players say a ton of things – realistic and preposterous – during the off season, but what matters is how much of it translates over to the season. I know it’s very tempting for fans to pay attention to every word that comes out of a HC’s mouth or the players’ for that matter. What it essentially comes down to is whether the HC actually sticks to his ‘promises’ or if it was just another far-fetched way to get the fans excited about the season.
All of this being said, I do consider it possible with the personnel we currently have to run some, albeit limited, version of the 3-4 defense.
The problem would not be the players on the field. The real issue would be for the players to understand their new assignment in a totally different scheme, which it incontrovertibly is compared to the 4-3 scheme.
Suddenly, a guy like Schobel and Maybin would have to drop back in coverage, and furthermore a player like Kyle Williams and/or Spencer Johnson would have to get acquianted to being a pure, run-stuffing DE.
In theory, it could work, but as does communism, but we all know there’s quite a jump from theory to reality.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jul 21, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions
Well Pat Kirwan or not...
the coaches have been implementing it. Maybin said as much.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
And Schobel or Maybin would be rushing… not dropping into coverage. They are being moved to get to the passer. That also goes for Johnson/Williams – they would be rushing the QB on 3rd and long.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Jul 21, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
They are being moved to get to the passer.
Ok, I’ll throw out the question. I don’t understand Xs and Os enough to figure out why calling a DE a LB is going to help him get to the passer better. Can someone explain?
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Jul 22, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, it doesn't
but if you line up that LB ( Maybin) next to Schobel or alongside Mitchell on a blitz for example, it makes it more difficult to block those guys. It might also be easier for guys to rush the passer from an upright position, though they do lose a lot of leverage that way.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
In all probability
the Bills will use the nickel DB out of a 4-3 scheme (4-2-5). Not a bad change of pace to blitz both Mitchell and Maybin from the LB spots at times, although just blitzing one would add to the unpredictability of the defense.
Yeah, we may see a sprinkling of 3-4 looks through the season, but like some others here, I’m not going to get too excited about that until I start seeing it in September. I think the coaching staff is comfortable with the nickel packages and will use them more often than the 3-4.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Shouldn’t we (instead) just expect more pass-rushing prowess from K’s poster child?
Get the Bills back to the big game!
3-4 in Buffalo again
I would like to see the 3-4 D in Buffalo again. I think we have all the tools we need there.
GO BUFFALO
Really? How can you possibly think that? I mean maybe for the LBs (with Maybin here) But none of ours guys on the DL would be good fits for 3-4 D’s (except maybe Stroud). the Permanant 3-4 isn’t happening.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 22, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Bills have the pieces in place to successfully shift over to the 3-4 …… over the course of a full offseason. It would be a disaster if Buffalo shifted now, but I think a new coaching staff could turn things over pretty well in a single offseason. I think that Both Stroud and Williams are decent fits as DEs, and Stroud could backup the NT. But that doesn’t leave us with that nose tackle, which happens to be the single most important position in a 3-4. Buffalo would have a solid trio of rush LBs in Maybin, Schobel and Mitchell. But if you play Mitchell outside, then you don’t have nearly enough size inside and if you move Mitchell inside then you don’t have enough depth or sure things outside.
by kaisertown on Jul 22, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there’s a few nice big DT prospects coming for the 3-4 in the coming draft, and we DO have the LB core to succeed at current, IMO. they’re not top-flight performers, but between poz, mitchell, possibly schobel as the other outside LB and maybin at the elephant position, we’d have a really nice front seven. not the best, but it’d get the job done imo. this is assuming, of course, that we could pick up one more pass-rushing DE that’s a big dude to replace schobel soon. and assuming that schobel’s leg doesn’t fall off or something.
Oh I’m not saying that a transition to it wouldn’t be possible, but it wouldn’t happen.
But if we wait a year, draft properly, draft a big NT in ther first and a large DE in the 2nd or 3rd, and add a few depth LB threw FA and it could work. But I’m not sure if I like the idea of having both Schobel and Maybin at OLB because then we’re rally bad at outside pass coverage.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jul 22, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
We have one potential pass rushing LB, we need more than that. Mitchell and Poz would be good ILB’s in a 3-4, that’s for sure. I can’t envision Schobel playing OLB in a 3-4. He isn’t a guy who should be dropping into coverage ever, which he’d probably do occasionally out of a 3-4…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
he’d be a package LB at best, i can agree there.
by the_prophet on Jul 23, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
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