Fingers pointing in Aaron Maybin holdout
by Brian Galliford on Aug 11, 2009 9:00 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintEighteen days ago today, the Buffalo Bills opened 2009 training camp at St. John Fisher College in Pittsford, New York. The team began formal preparations for the 2009 season without first-round draft pick DE Aaron Maybin (as well as four other rookies). Nearly three full weeks after training camp commenced, Maybin remains unsigned. He has missed 17 practices, dozens of meetings and walk-throughs, and the Bills' first of five pre-season games on the season. The Penn State alum is one of just five NFL rookies awaiting rookie deals, and no rookie has missed as much time as Maybin.
Anxiety was running high in this fan base when camp opened without Maybin; to say things have gotten worse in three weeks is a severe understatement. Right now, things are quite vitriolic between Maybin and the fan base - so much so, in fact, that Maybin has commenced a Twitter hiatus.
Fingers are pointing in several directions here: at San Francisco holdout WR Michael Crabtree and his agent, Eugene Parker; at Maybin's agents, Joel Segal and Chafie Fields; even at Maybin himself. The fact of the matter, however, is that playing the blame game is a fruitless endeavor, because not one single party is completely at fault for this unfortunate situation.
LaVar Arrington: Publicist
Maybin, a Penn State alum, has a public and well-known friendship with fellow PSU alum and NFL linebacker LaVar Arrington. On Tuesday, we found out for the first time that not only are the two friends, but Arrington is also Maybin's publicist - and he called the Associated Press to do a little damage control for his friend-slash-client:
"This Crabtree kid is putting people in this predicament," Arrington said. "I just think people’s hands are tied until this guy gets around to doing what he’s going to do."
Arrington refers, of course, to the borderline hostility between Crabtree - selected immediately before Maybin in this past April's draft - and the San Francisco 49ers. The two sides are firmly entrenched in what has the feel of a lengthy holdout, and like it or not, the progress (or lack thereof) in these negotiations are having a profound effect on Maybin's negotiations in Buffalo - not to mention with three other unsigned rookies as well (Bengals OT Andre Smith, Jaguars OT Eugene Monroe and Packers NT B.J. Raji).
Like any good publicist, Arrington went out of his way to publicly put the onus for his friend-slash-client's lengthy holdout on the other, more hostile holdout. That's fine - he's a publicist-slash-friend. The idea that Crabtree's holdout is solely to blame for Maybin's holdout, however, is preposterous - even if there is a very large degree of truth in the sentiment. "Hands tied" is a poor term, but there is most certainly an impact on negotiations.
Joel Segal: Busy Elsewhere
Much has been made of the fact that one of Maybin's agents, Joel Segal, is known throughout NFL circles as an agent with unique, overly patient business practices. If you didn't believe it before, a three-weeks-and-counting holdout should really hammer the point home. Segal only represents one other first-round pick, Vikings WR Percy Harvin, and therefore understandably is trying to wheedle every cent out of the Bills. All in the name of his client, of course.
Negotiations with Buffalo are at a standstill; while Maybin twiddles his thumbs (or, as circumstances have it, gets emotional watching his team play without him), however, Segal is busy trying to get another high-profile client a deal. Meanwhile, Segal's business partner, Chafie Fields, is remaining publicly mum. Good for him. These guys are good agents for a reason - they get their clients more-than-fair deals.
Aaron Maybin: In a Catch-22
There is a strong chance that Maybin could be the very last rookie to sign his contract. Maybin is feeling pretty misunderstood at the moment - hence his Twitter hiatus. He clearly wants to be on the field (we were serious about his crying during the Hall of Fame Game, in case you hadn't heard it elsewhere), but he can't exactly settle for a contract he and his agent don't view as fair. You never know in this game - this might be the only NFL contract Maybin signs, and most of it won't be guaranteed. He has a right to his money, even if he exasperates fans (and himself) along the way.
The Buffalo Bills: Going about their business
Rarely do you hear much complaining from the fan base towards the franchise in this type of situation. It's much easier for fans to claim greed on the player's or the agent's part, or other mitigating circumstances. Why is the possibility that the Bills are low-balling Maybin mentioned so infrequently? All's fair in the blame game, people.
That said, it takes two to tango, as they say, and the Bills are very likely finding it difficult to negotiate with an agent that, at least from what we can glean, isn't anywhere near in a rush to get a deal done. That's all the Bills can control, too - half of the negotiation. Maybin isn't under contract. They can't fine, suspend, or do anything but try to chip away at this thing while Dick Jauron and his coaching staff prepares the rest of the team for the season opener.
Bills fans: Understandably Impatient
We as Bills fans have only one objective: unflinchingly wish to see anything that helps the team end its decade-long playoff skid. That's what fans do. It's therefore understandable that we tend to get extremely antsy - oh, screw it, we get ragingly pissed off - when something happens to threaten the team's potential success. Maybin's holdout clearly fits that criteria.
But the blame game is a fruitless endeavor, folks. There can't be one side to blame here, nor is any one side completely blameless. Sometimes, these things work themselves out quickly; other times, a perfect storm brews and the situation drags in irritating fashion. Unfortunately, Maybin's on the boat with George Clooney and Mark Wahlberg. Each side of this situation has a rooting interest.
It's Maybin's fault! If he wants to play, then just sign! Can't happen. First of all, just because a player holds out doesn't mean he doesn't want to play. Nothing about Aaron Maybin as a person suggests that he's some diva just looking for a pay day. He works out like a maniac. Cynicism and skepticism reign, clearly, but Maybin wants to be out there, folks. But he's doing himself a disservice by taking any old deal just to placate his fans and get onto the field. That doesn't make him greedy; it merely makes him cautious. He knows his popularity has taken a hit in the public eye; it's not about that. It's about doing himself right by the parameters of the situation.
Maybin should just fire Segal! That's a bad idea, too. Not only would he have to wait a week to hire a new agent (per NFL rules), but what little progress that has been made in the negotiations would be completely eradicated - and why wouldn't a new agent wait to see what Crabtree gets, too? That's a bigger risk than the holdout itself.
Agents are greedy! Segal's a jerk! Agents have families to feed, too, folks - and, more importantly to them, future clients to rope in. People don't like lawyers, either, but that doesn't mean that they're not doing their jobs well when they're irritating defendants. Segal's job is to get as much as he can for his client. He has to trust that as soon as Maybin sees the field, he'll start making plays - because if that doesn't happen, well, he got him that great initial deal, didn't he? You couldn't pay me enough to be an agent. It would suck to be paid to be hated.
This was a wasted draft pick! Maybin's a bust! Well, you know how I feel about that one. Players aren't drafted based on who their agents are. Let the kid play before making that judgment.
Vitriol is understandable, but a failure to grasp the reality of this situation isn't, folks. Don't blame one side. All sides share the blame, and for very different reasons. More importantly, don't judge any side of the holdout - all sides have rooting interests, and as painful as it is to admit for a fan, they're doing their jobs the right way. These things happen. It's time for us to understand that.
My advice to you: fret that Maybin isn't on the field. Worry about how the holdout might impact his play. Gnash your teeth over the prospect of a Bills pass rush similar to last year's. Wash, rinse, repeat. It is pointless to point fingers, because the blame game has no true winner or loser. It is what it is. It's not exactly in the job description of a fan - particularly Bills fans, who have exhibited enough of the trait I'm about to mention to last several eternities - but patience is a requirement.
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I think I have a good answer.
I believe the reason we side with the Team and not the player, is we are the payee. Ultimately the fans pay for the players to earn their money, so quite naturally we side with the Team. As minute as my contribution is, I am a small part of coming up with the money to subsidize Maybin’s contract. I want him in camp. I am giving him my hard earned money and I want him to be satisfied with taking a portion of my salary along with all of yours, and I don’t want to hear any other excuse.
My family has to budget so I can enjoy football and these young men are crying. Sorry, what about me?
I side with the team because I think it stinks that all first rounders near the top get paid befor doing anything. Its natural to subconsciosly not blame the team even if its wrong
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
by poz on Aug 11, 2009 10:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The possibility exists that the Bills are low balling Maybin. However, they don’t have a history of lowballing draft picks so I think the chance of that is slim. Plus, it’s pretty well known that Segal is wait-and-see agent.
By what I’m hearing, and reading, it’s not a question of how much money they are willing to give Maybin; there would be a lot more animosity if that was the case. The question here seems to be how much garanteed money they are willing to give him.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 12, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
As Brian noted, this may be Maybin’s only contract, so the garanteed money in important.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 12, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Having trouble feeling sorry for Maybin
So he only gets a paltry couple million in signing money as a golden parachute in case he gets injured and has to get a regular job like the rest of us. Poor baby.
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
awwww – must be difficult to have millions of dollars. damn – glad i don’t have to worry about that….
now would those statements be considered hating?
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Aug 12, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yours or mine????? Either way, the answer is No :-)
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Oh I’m not trying to defend Maybin here, I’m just trying to understand his mentality.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 12, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just trying to understand his mentality
Imagine yourself when you were in college. Now, imagine you were about to become a multi-millionaire, but grown men were going to try to drive you to the turf. He wants to play, but he wants to be able to live in the lap of luxury for the rest of his life if he gets injured. It is really that simple.
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Well when you put it that way….
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 12, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
some blame may be in order
I completely understand the “slotting” that takes place with rookies… it is what it is. Pointing a finger at Crabtree (and Gene Gene “the holdout Machine” Parker) has some merit…. Crabtree is, from my understanding, looking to skew the slotting by holding out for a contract far greater than his “slot” warrants. That certainly places him in some legitimate blame cross-hairs. As for Maybin (through his agent), I truly believe that they are aware that if SF signs Crabtreefor an inflated number it will increase their contract basis…. this is especially true now that SF has lost one of their starting WR’s to injury….. smart business I suppose. But let’s be realistic somewhat, Moreno (#12) signed a fair deal and I believe that #8 is in….certainly an average can be worked out and I think the Bills would be willing to pay fairly…. Just my opinion
I would infer from Arrington's comment that it's not the Bills that are holding this up.
He’s blaming it on Crabtree and his agent’s position. The Bills certainly don’t want to sit around and see what Crabtree gets, especially if he gets an inflated number. I would guess they have a fair number on the table based on the #12 pick deal and historical differentials between picks in that neighborhood. The longer the thing drags out, the less valuable the deal is for the Bills. Maybin will get 5 years of pay if he gets a 5 year contract, but the Bills will get maybe 4.5 years of value if he misses the entire training camp.
by Gino Parilli on Aug 11, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's too bad
really want to see what this kid can do
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
wasted pick
no way this guy makes any impact this year and most likely his career… he is a huge gamble anyway HUGE this guy had a fitfy -fifty chance of making it any way now this… this is the exact thing not to do when u get into the league as a third year sophmore and severelty undersized while ur trying to learn new pass rush moves and the whole thing of being a pro … i wish we just traded down and picked up max unger or alex mack… what a love hate relatrionship i have with the draft
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
what a love hate relatrionship i have with the draft
It probably has something to do with the severe case of over-reaction-itis you have there.
I will grant you that Maybin was far from a sure thing, (but then there aren’t many who are), but to say: “no way this guy makes any impact this year and most likely his career” just because he has missed some practice time and one preseason game, is way out there in left field. Let’s not forget the Bills have an extra preseason game this year….
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
i was never sold on maybin
thats my assement overall this just makes me certain
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
by BRIANMULHALL on Aug 12, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
and severelty undersized
Is he really that undersized for a 4-3 RDE @ 6’4" 250lbs?
Aaron Maybe?
by MonStarr_716 on Aug 11, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
he is a huge gamble anyway HUGE this guy had a fitfy -fifty chance of making it any way
Ha ha. How is this different than any other draft pick?
If the glove don’t fit, it couldn’t be Whit...
Exactly. I’d argue that the Lions drafting Stafford is a bigger gamble then the Bills drafting Maybin. I mean in the last 20 years, how many top 3 QB’s have actually lived up to expectations? I can only think of Payton Manning.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 12, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Sticking in the top 3, you’ve got Matt Ryan as a very likely success, Carson Palmer and Donovan McNabb have been taken since Manning was drafted and Phil Rivers has been great as the 4th overall pick.
Eli Manning and Mike Vick are kinda in the middle.
Alex Smith, Vince Young, probably JaMarcus Russel, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch abd Akili Smith are busts.
But Mcnabb (as good as he has been) hasn’t lived up to the hype (and he wont until he gets a championship). Palmer has lived up to it when he’s healthy, Rivers also, again when he’s healthy.
Eli manning is one of the top second tier QB’s in the league. Vick could never do anything with his arm, and yeah the rest are busts.
In my eyes there are way more busts then wins here.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 12, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
he plays for the bills
thats what makes it different who cares about the other picks were talking about maybin and hes a huge gamble to be a success at the position he was drafted for if u dont agree then fine i couldnt care less this is what i think … and dont give me that he hasnt played a down yet so how can u say anything for certain of course i cant no one can so if u dsagree with me then good for u ur opinion is based on nothing more than mine is so if ur RIGHT then congratulations
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
by BRIANMULHALL on Aug 12, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
and dont give me that he hasnt played a down yet so how can u say anything for certain of course i cant no one can so if u dsagree with me then good for u ur opinion is based on nothing more than mine is so if ur RIGHT then congratulations
It isn’t that anybody is saying he will be a world beater, just that we will give him a chance to at the very least get onto the field before we call him a bust. Patience brother patience, let the guy play a year or two before busting him.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else
If he becomes a champion – no one will remember this
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Aug 12, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
If Crabtree is holding up the process and is willing to sit out the season,
how long before the rest of these guys, including Maybin and/or his agent say screw it and get a deal done? Or, will Maybin et al. hold out the year or reenter the draft too? What happens if say the 25th pick thinks he should have gone in the top 10? Does he get to hold the rest of the players above him hostage?
This Crabtree issue can’t be used as an excuse forever, so why not ignore Crabtree and get the deal done now? Yeah, I know……money. God forbid Maybin has to wait a year to trick out his new Escalade…..or Segal can only afford to by this wife a 10 carrot diamond ring instead of a 12 carrot ring. Forgive me if I have a hard time shedding a tear.
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Your right Joe, Moreno wanted to make an impact and got the deal done
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
by poz on Aug 11, 2009 10:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can’t get over how anyone picked after Maybin has signed a contract. Don’t they know they have to go in order from 1 to Mr Irrelevant or else they might be signing unfair contracts?
Maybin can wait for Crabtree all he wants, but I don’t think that contract (in the event it got done before Maybin’s contract) would have that much of an impact. Crabtree has a few arguments that he deserves an above average contract at #10: 1. He was injured and that was a reason he fell in the draft. Without that he probably was a top 5 and maybe top 3 pick. 2. The overall consensus, even with the injury, was that Crabtree was the #1 receiver in the draft, and I suspect that 31 out of 32 team felt that way. The 32nd team just happened to draft a different WR ahead of him. And that team is generally seen as one of the worst run organizations, if not the worst. So Crabtree arguing that he deserves more money than a typical #10 has some merit.
Hypothetically, let’s say the 49ers give Crabtree a contract in excess of what your typical 10th overall pick would get. If you’re the Bills is that going to make you give out an above average contract for the 11th pick? I’d be surprised. First, Crabtree is a WR who generally get a little more of a premium than DL. Second, Maybin wasn’t viewed as anything other than a normal mid-first round draft pick. Looking at mock drafts the highest anyone had him going was 11th, and generally he was in the 11-19 range. So even if Crabtree is successful I don’t think it translate to Maybin all that well.
From the sounds of it, my guess is that Crabtree isn’t signing until Labor Day at the earliest. If Maybin’s hitching his wagon to Crabtree it’s going to be at least that long for him too.
The good part is that Maybin probably needs the least amount of time to be ready to be on the field. He was going to mostly be a situational player this season, and that’s not going to change now. Put him on the field in a passing situation and point him to the QB. It kind of reminds me of the Bills getting Bennett and him playing right away without knowing really knowing schemes, etc. And he made an impact from Day 1 too. So Maybin not being in camp isn’t the biggest deal to me. If it was someone on the OL there’d be much bigger concerns on my part.
Yeah
Hypothetically, let’s say the 49ers give Crabtree a contract in excess of what your typical 10th overall pick would get. If you’re the Bills is that going to make you give out an above average contract for the 11th pick?
That is basically what they are saying. If Crabtree gets…..lets say #5 money, than Maybin will want a little better than #5 money.
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Personally, I don't think Crabtree's arguments really have any merit.
1. He was injured and that was a reason he fell in the draft. Without that he probably was a top 5 and maybe top 3 pick.
That may be true that he might have been ranked that high, however, even if he wasn’t injured it doesn’t mean that one of the top 5 teams would have picked him. Lots of the teams had needs at WR and could have taken him, or any other receiver, but they didn’t. Now it could have been that the injury thing made them re-think it, or it could be that they didn’t see WR as their biggest need.
2. The overall consensus, even with the injury, was that Crabtree was the #1 receiver in the draft, and I suspect that 31 out of 32 team felt that way. The 32nd team just happened to draft a different WR ahead of him. And that team is generally seen as one of the worst run organizations, if not the worst. So Crabtree arguing that he deserves more money than a typical #10 has some merit.
The Raiders are definitely not known as a well run organization, but they do at the very least have a reason behind their decisions, however strange it might be. Al Davis seems to think that speed is the ultimate talent that any football player can have, which was one of the main reasons that led him to pick DHB over Crabtree. He didn’t feel that Crabtree’s skills were better than DHB’s for what he was looking for in a player. At least that is my opinion on why the choice was made, I don’t know for sure what goes on in Davis’ deranged mind, nor do I want to. I value my sanity.
The biggest problem that I have with Crabtree’s argument, is that he wants to get paid top 5 money because he was ranked in the top 5 on most of the mock drafts. He’s basing his argument on something that wasn’t even real, and on top of that, is just simply a guess, not fact. Nobody knew for sure what every team had as their draft board, so nobody knew where exactly each team had him listed. He may have been their #1 WR prospect, but that doesn’t mean that they had him at the top.
My point is, I think that Crabtree is just being selfish and angry that he wasn’t picked as high as he thought he should be. I think it is telling that no teams picked him until the 10th spot as they felt they had bigger needs than WR. If a team really wanted him that bad, they would have traded up to get him like the Jets did with Sanchez. As it stands, no teams felt like giving anything more than a 10th overall pick for him, so he just needs to deal with that and accept a 10th pick contract.
All that being said, I really hope for you guys that Maybin does get this figured out and gets signed soon. I think he will be a big help for you guys.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
9 "Phinsider Feud" Points
Whaaaat?
Not only would he have to wait a week to hire a new agent (per NFL rules), but what little progress that has been made in the negotiations would be completely eradicated
Exactly what progress is that? Do you call sitting on your ass and waiting for Crabtree to sign progress? If Maybin hired a reasonable agent, hell hire Aarington, and they got the deal done 8 days later, it would still be an improvement over the road we seem to be on now.
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
This mess is why I am gaining more and more appreciation and interest in the college game every year. College football isn’t a nasty business. The football quality is a bit less, sure. But the intensity is there. I’ll admit that I have a hatred for business in general, but even then, if I wasn’t raised such a strong Bills fan I’d probably have abandoned pro football by now.
College football is a nasty business as well, you just don’t see it. Recruitment and retention of players is everybit as cutthroat as the draft/free agency madness.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Aug 11, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
We are told that this is just typical contract talks – business as usual.
But next year could be anything BUT business as usual: there is a good chance a new collective bargaining agreement will not be in place and we’ll be witnessing an uncapped year or worse.
Personally I’d love to a see a rookie pay scale in place to avoid just this kind of hold-out crap: good for the owners not future rookies and their agents. Maybe this is related to the Maybin situation. Maybe not.
I did a quick search and found a Bleacher Report article from July 29 talking about this: 2009 NFL Draft Class Is Taking Its Time Graduating to Training Camps by Lloyd Vance:
I don’t know if it is the threat of an uncapped year in 2010, impending CBA talks including a possible rookie wage scale, rookies and their agents showing their greedy ways, the "domino" effect where rookies are waiting for the guy in front of them to sign, or first-year guys having jitters about singing their college fight song in the players cafeteria.
But for the first time since rookie holdout heydays in the early ’90s, there are more stuck on the sidelines than ever.
Of course, team management and players’ agents will say the current rookie holdout trend that we are experiencing has everything to do with the current adherence to the rookie "slotting" system.
I agree with most everything you said Brian except for the fact that bills fans aren’t patient. I and I’m sure most of us have watched every game through ten years of nothingness and I still shell out for games every chance I get. We are very patient. The problem here is we are on the cusp and its this coaching staffs last stand and after o line, a pas rush is the biggest thing in our way. Heck we have TO on a one year deal its all hands on deck! Except for maybin
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
by poz on Aug 11, 2009 10:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Wait, The Perfect Storm? I thought Maybin was searching for gold, not fish…. Once he signs a contract, then he can go hunting the Fish (Oct 4).
Ok, I see what you did there. =)
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
9 "Phinsider Feud" Points
clarification on the crabtree theory
That is basically what they are saying. If Crabtree gets…..lets say #5 money, than Maybin will want a little better than #5 money.
My point was that if Crabtree signs for say, #5 money…. Maybin’s agent would certainly be in a position to ask for better than #11 money….definitely not #5 figures, but probably what the #9 player would get…. it’s just smart business
So Buffalo could make an offer that basically pretends Maybin was taken #10, which would be about $29 million instead of $26 million. Make it a “take it now or see it lowered” offer.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Aug 11, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
What is wrong with #11 money?
As Ron pointed out, this mess could easily be ironed out if both sides were willing to be reasonable.
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
This whole thing is making Maybin and his representation look incredibly greedy. The fact that they are basing everything on what Crabtree gets pretty much seals that. They are hoping he gets #5 or #7 money so they can line their pockets even more. As ridiculous as Crabtree and Parker seem to be, Maybin and his guys are nearly as ridiculous. This is assuming the Bills are offering a nice bump over what Moreno got at #12, Orakpo got at #13 and what the #11 pick last year got (Leo), and there is no reason to believe otherwise. The Bills don’t lowball draft picks and always give them fair contracts.
I can’t believe Arrington is blaming Crabtree for this. Other draft picks had no problem getting signed while others ahead of them were unsigned.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
1. Overall, whether this happens or not does not really affect my life. I will live on. Also, I have never yet spent one red cent on an NFL franchise (tix, apparel, etc.), so it’s not my money the teams and players are bickering about.
2. I also agree that some fans go significantly overboard. “Bust,” “wasted pick,” none of these are even remotely reasonable statements.
HOWEVER, there are several points in this article on which I have to call BS:
3.
He has a right to his money
He has a right to nothing, just as the team doesn’t have any “right” to him. Whatever deal they work out or don’t work out, none of it is based on any quantifiable “right.”
4.
what little progress that has been made in the negotiations would be completely eradicated
Um, there has been no useful progress to this point, so this reasoning seems completely bunk. Joe P. mentioned the lack of progress above, and I agree with him.
5.
Agents have families to feed, too, folks
LMFAO!! Who are we now, Latrell Sprewell?? He who turned down a 3-year, $21 million contract because he had a “family to feed” (his own words). Get serious. Remember Sprewell’s fate: he never played another minute in the NBA, and now he has had to auction off his yacht, his home went into foreclosure, and he’s behind on his taxes.
You’re right, agents do have clients to represent and to pursue. But they are supposed to be acting in their clients’ best interests, not their own (that’s what agency in any capacity is all about). But whether an agent’s actions are truly in a client’s best interests is often highly questionable.
6.
but Maybin wants to be out there, folks
The simple fact is that Maybin wants more money more than he wants to be playing. If playing were the most important thing, he would be out there with a deal signed. Is that right or wrong? Who’s to say? Frankly, I don’t care one way or the other. But his actions indicate clearly that he wants more money more than he wants to be playing. I will not shed any tears over his tears about not being out there or over his hurt feelings.
Ultimately, I will not lose out, whatever happens. But let’s call a spade a spade.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Aug 12, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
well said and rec’d
his actions indicate clearly that he wants more money more than he wants to be playing. I will not shed any tears over his tears about not being out there or over his hurt feelings.
But let’s call a spade a spade.
And this doesn’t mean that we are turning on Maybin. I still like the kid, I just don’t agree that he is as helpless in this situation as others do.
I would love the Bills to win games, but I will be happy if they are competitive without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Yup, my sentiments exactly
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
And this doesn’t mean that we are turning on Maybin. I still like the kid, I just don’t agree that he is as helpless in this situation as others do.
Exactly. It sounds like his agent is pretty stubborn / patient, and Maybin is following his advice a little too blindly. If every player had to wait until the pick before them signed we’d be looking at over 200 holdouts right now. So the whole “that darn Crabtree kid is holding us up” statement is really silly.
what little progress that has been made in the negotiations would be completely eradicated
-——— Um, there has been no useful progress to this point, so this reasoning seems completely bunk. Joe P. mentioned the lack of progress above, and I agree with him.
Exactly. And the ’it’d take a week to get a new agent in place’ argument has been in place for almost three weeks now.
Completely second everything you said.
….but i would be awfully suprised if you’ve never spent a cent on the NFL. Have you ever used a product sponsored by the Bills or that airs commercials during games? (Labbatt, Bud, GM, Ford, Johnsonville, Reebok, Pepsi, etc etc etc) purchased NFL Sunday Ticket or gone to a bar that has NFL Sunday Ticket and purchased food or drink? The money trail is more complex than you or I could ever decipher.
GoBills.
I appreciate your point, and you’re correct that the money trail is far more complex (although I still think you’d be surprised at just how little money it is from me).
But anyway in regards to money and fans, I think fans don’t take seriously just how complicit they are in this type of scenario Where does the money come from for all this? The fans. What power do fans hold over their team when they are displeased? WIthholding their spending. Will fans ever allow their impact to be felt, by hitting the owners and players where it will hurt them the most (the bank account)? Unfortunately, I doubt it.
The craziest thing to me is that the fans have the least at stake and the least to gain in this whole scenario, yet it is the fans who will continue to pony up more, and more, and more, and more (ad infinitum) money to allow this monstrous system to perpetuate.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Aug 12, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't wait...
Until the NFL fixes the rookie pay system. That should solve all of this. Maybe it won’t happen, ever, but a man can dream, and I know Roger Goodell has it on his agenda.
What are the chances we see this as part of the next deal?
As far as I’m concerned he can hold out as long as he wants, because the more he holds out, the more realistic is it that he’ll have a rookie season like Vernon Gholston, i.e. having ZERO impact on anything and being inactive a lot of games.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Aug 12, 2009 2:57 AM EDT reply actions
really tired
of hearing excuses for this holdout. number 12 is signed. Maybin at 11 using Crabtree as an excuse is just that, an excuse. Just because the Raiders made a stupid pick, and contract, with DHB doesn’t make Maybin worth more than #11 money. He went were he was projected to go. Maybe Crabtree has an argument(although I don’t agree) but Maybin has none with regard to Crabtree’s situation.
What’s this kid worth next season, if we go to a 3-4 defense?
played one season in college
has proven nothing in OTA’s
it just doesn’t add up to a justification for holding out.
It seems to me
he does a good job talking like he wants to be there and gets all riled up, but when it comes down to it, he is still a no show.
He is young and has a hard time looking past the possibilities of all those zer000000000s. He will be a good pick and will contribute but not as fast as we would like. This has just put a sour taste in my mouth for the time being.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
Holdout
As we know a holdout test the intestinal fortitude of all involved—the player, front office, coaching staff and of course all of us fans. It is a unpleasant aspect of sports that is hard to grasp because of all the money involved. There is always the gray area were being sensible about demands turn into just plain being greedy with unrealistic demands.
As Bills fans we are on the edge knowing what Maybin could bring to the defense and the fact that we watched the Bills go down in flames last year partially due to the Jason Peters fiasco.
Maybin’s holdout is starting to parallel Jason Peter’s by the silence of what the Bills are offering and what his agents are demanding. The fact that there is no disussion or talks going on is what is the most discouraging news of all.
We all know after Peters returned last year he was not the pro bowl player from the previous season. When Maybin finally signs (he will eventually) after he has missed all the practices an meetings, the Bills will be lucky if he can make a contribution by mid-season. I don’t know if it’s me but it seems that when players holdout they get injured more often or end up with nagging muscle pulls they keep them from playing at 100%.
Bills will regret this pick!!!!!11
He started one season, is under-sized, and I believe he will not make a contribution to this team for several years. And he came out after his sophomore year.
In the meantime, Mr. Brian Orakpo looks very impressive with the Skins, played 4 years in a superior conference………..Bills Management – Are you smarter than a 5th grader!
careful breathe – we have no idea how he’s going to be in the NFL. let time show us how he’s going to play – we haven’t even seen him in a uni. how can you say we can regret it? i don’t get it……..
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Aug 12, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
if it starts this way, how can you not at least wonder if he’s not another Peter’s type in the making? If his holdout is truly based solely on Crabtree’s situation(as claimed by his “publicist”) then he’s proving that he is prone to being irrational, not a good sign.
i’m talking about being a player – not as far as greed is concerned.
Concerning your point – if he as the only one then i’d agree with you – but this happens every year. even Whitner held out for a while didn’t he?
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Aug 12, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah he played 4 years at Texas where they coddled him and he was the greatest thing ever.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 13, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a situational player at best this year
So what’s the hurry? A deal will get done when it gets done.
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
that’s kind of how i’m thinking. he’s basically going to be rushing the passer…..
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Aug 12, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
well you have to consider that this is just this year he’s going to be a situational pass rusher. Hopefully he’ll sign for 5 or 6 years – so over time he will hopefully become an every down player. In that regard he wants his cash to lineup with premier DE’s in the game that he and his agent and OBD beleive he can become.
It just takes the urgency off of this year because of how we plan to use him. Make no mistake – he needs the playing time – but it’s not like he’s a QB.
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Aug 12, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
the pathetic Bill’s pass rush is what warrants this. Arguably our biggest weakness, and everyone insists that Maybin should have an impact there. Admittedly, if Wood held out the impact would be greater, but he didn’t.
I certainly get that the way the system is set up as is, all parties are doing what they “should” and its what others have done and this situation is what it is. But that doesn’t make it right- the system or the tactics being employed now. Despite all the details, the bottom line is this is happening because they want more money. There is no getting around it. And to be cliche, with the economy and western NY especially in the state it’s in…I just can’t accept Maybin’s position.
GoBills.
by The Biscuit on Aug 12, 2009 9:37 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Preseason
Maybin’s holdout really isn’t that far into preseason we just started really early so it has compounded the frustration. 30 of the 32 teams haven’t played a preseason game. Be patient. If he is not in by the 2nd preseason game then there is reason to worry, but the harsh comments are ridiculous considering a deal could get done bf this weekend and he will have the chance to play in 3 preseason games.
I am fairly certain LT didn’t sign his rookie deal until 6 days bf the start of the season and he turned out quite alright.
He had one season of productivity. Every meeting, every practice, and every mistake at the NFL level are necessary lessons he’s missing out on learning.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 12, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
First Round Draft Picks are overpaid to start with
The greed of the lawyers bargaining is gruesome..These Reps have several clients and when it’s all said and done,are making millions a years themselves,without taking a single physical hit themselves..I’m old I know that,but when I played ball back in the Army in Europe our team had several 1st,2nd,and3rd round picks on it..Yeah their agents screamed when they played,but You what..We Loved The Damn Game,so we played it.You don’t see a whole lot of that today,so I’m outdated in my opinions..I still don’t see it though..How many of these kids actually have to play out an entire contract?.If they’re really good,they play out the first couple of years and get another huge payday,so I don’t see why holding them out in a situation like this really makes a lot of sense to anyone but of course..The Agents..
by FanFromThe80s on Aug 12, 2009 11:14 AM EDT reply actions
First Round Draft Picks are overpaid to start with
Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
Take a guy chosen in the early to mid part of the first round. His contract is going to look something like $4 million to $5 million per year for 5 years. If that player, a DE for example, becomes one of the better DEs in the league in, say, his second or third year then he is being underpaid for the remaining years on his contract. The upward spiraling of contract values makes this hypothetical player’s contract seem less and less adequate.
On the other side of the ledger, of course, are the outright busts. Mike Williams wasn’t worth the minimum amount permitted by the NFL. Naturally, teams try to avoid the Ryan Leaf’s of the world; the good teams do and everyone else gets hosed.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Aug 12, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
My biggest issue with this whole situation:
It would appear on the surface as though Segal is doing nothing to help Maybin’s career. He’s so concerned with his cut, that I wonder if Maybin knows this could affect his long-term value. He’s far from polished and far from a guarantee as a DE at the NFL level.
While this is a “no duh” type comment, it’s disturbing to me how these agents are allowed to continually aid in sabotaging the long term success of these guys. Maybin will be lucky to see the field much this season, especially if he misses all of camp.
Again, I feel no remorse for a player that looks at this as potentially their “only” opportunity. There’s millions waiting to be had by him, and the few dollars more he’ll sign for won’t impact his social status.
I stand by the fact that these guys should be forced to finish 4 years of college and attain a meaningful degree. Come out early and pass on the degree – that’s not anyone’s fault but theirs. Anyone can do it. Anyone can get a 4-year degree now.
I was so happy to see Randall McDaniel say he’s now an elementary ed teacher. The NFL needs more guys like him.
The crying thing has me wondering if this is all Segal vs. the Bills’ front office. Not Maybin wanting more money than what’s been offered.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 12, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
baby more than the rest brings the least to the table. crab apple for all his TO like ego , if he is healthy has a lot of upside. maybin has little. it is a shame for him to destroy a possible great career over some other persons ego.
Wait… Maybin’s career is destroyed?
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by Brian Galliford on Aug 16, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
this leaves just smith , crabtree and maybin out there. smith is a fruit cake and will probable never play even after he signs(or if) this kid maybin has wasted almost any good will he has with the bills fans. he was a wild cat choice in the draft, no experience , no national ranking and reason to feel so important, no excuse to destroy a career. crabapple on the other hand is doing what he has to. he has not worked out with anyone since he tore up his foot and has shown no reason to believe he will ever be able to play. that explains(till he shows better) why he has to get so much guaranteed money, it will be the only money he ever gets. i believe he and the paragon of virtue agent are scamming the 49ers big time. the 9rs can call his bluff or lose millions seems this is not going on line forgive if there are multiple listings
Maybin is definitely not the brightest bulb out there nor is his agent, but again it is what it is (the business side of football that being) and as Bills-fans all we can do is to have a healthy amount of patience and faith that the process will get done sooner rather than later. We need him to contribute this year, but the more time he misses the more realistic it seems that he won’t be much of a factor at all on defense and that’s very bad news for our horrific pass-rush.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Aug 16, 2009 8:53 AM EDT reply actions
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