Is Aaron Schobel Buffalo's most indispensable player?
by Brian Galliford on Aug 20, 2009 1:00 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
Email
PrintOver the past few years, each individual Buffalo Bills season has passed by with the Bills failing to adequately answer two questions: can the team find a long-term answer at quarterback, and will they be able to field a potent pass rush?
While the team believes it may be on track to answering the first of those questions with QB Trent Edwards - an experiment about to enter its second full season - the Bills are still struggling to answer the pass rushing question. The team drafted DE Aaron Maybin in the first round this season, but he is now on Day 26 of his rookie holdout. Veterans Chris Kelsay and Ryan Denney have spent long years in Buffalo without developing into top sack artists (though each player, it should be noted, has his uses). While the team keeps waiting for Maybin, and hopes that a young player such as Chris Ellis can fill the void, the big question in regards to the pass rush is as follows:
How much, if anything, does Aaron Schobel have left in the tank?
Schobel is entering the third year of a seven-year, $50 million extension he signed just prior to the 2007 season. He was, and remains, Buffalo's highest-paid defender (with only WR Lee Evans signing a comparable contract). Yet Schobel only has 7.5 sacks and a serious foot injury on his resume from the past two seasons. Naturally, when SI.com named Schobel the Bills' most indispensable player, a few eyebrows might have shot skyward.
Let's take a look at SI.com blurb on Schobel - penned by John P. Lopez - to break down the reasoning behind Schobel's indispensable label.
Forget Terrell Owens or Trent Edwards or any other headline-grabber for a moment. When Schobel has his health and his game, he lifts the Bills defense to higher places.
Well, he did up until the 2007 season, at least. Schobel played a healthy, full 16-game schedule that season, yet only registered 6.5 sacks as the team itself registered a mere 23. That latter figure was eclipsed by the 2008 Bills, who played nearly 12 full games without their most feared pass rusher.
Last year, he had neither, missing all but five games. And whether it was because of injury or age catching up to Schobel, he had just 7.5-sacks since 2006, after accumulating 26 sacks the previous two years.
Now's a good time to also mention that, despite the disturbingly widespread public notion that Schobel was productive on mediocre pass-rushing defense, the Bills combined for 74 sacks in 2005 and 2006. That number has since dwindled to 47 over the past two seasons. 74 seemed like an issue at the time, but I doubt you'd find a Bills fan out there who wouldn't agree to 37 sacks this season. It's a start. Schobel should get some credit for productive seasons on semi-productive defenses; this is one fact that I'm glad Lopez mentioned.
This year, Schobel appears healthier and spry.
He certainly does. I've read, seen and heard people freaking out at two pre-season games this season as Schobel has "rushed the passer," but watching him in a camp setting, he moves like he's in his prime. He's very quick. As long as he stays healthy, we'll see the same old Aaron Schobel, at least to start the season.
The younger players on the defensive side, specifically linebacker Paul Posluszny and Aaron Maybin, can learn a lot from him, if he can stay healthy all year long.
Well, Posluszny has played with him for about a year and a half now. I'm not sure how much a middle linebacker can learn from a defensive end to begin with, and I'll take Posluszny's work ethic over Schobel's any day of the week - and that's not a knock on Schobel in the slightest. As for Maybin, well... I'm sure you know where I'm going with this.
If not, well, you're probably looking at a second consecutive season of finishing in the bottom-five in sacks in the NFL.
That's probably true, and it's solid rationale for naming Schobel as the team's most indispensable player. Perhaps there are masses of Bills fans out there who happen to agree with Mr. Lopez; that's why we've got a poll going here. If you're asking me, however, Schobel isn't a Top 3 contender. In order of indispensability, I'd take QB Trent Edwards, WR Terrell Owens (both of these guys were randomly and irrationally tossed aside by Lopez, and I can't figure out why), and DT Marcus Stroud.
So I'm voting "no" in the poll. I'd love to hear more commentary from the Rumblings community on this particular subject, however. Have at it.
104 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Well I think you skew the voting by ending it with giving your opinion :P
I voted no though, only because this Bills defense is comprised of a group of good defenders, but there aren’t really any outstanding great defenders. Poz is pretty good, so is Stroud, and McGee of course… But do we have any great DB, great D-linemen, great LB? And, I don’t use great loosely, just something to think about
Hey, the day I can’t give my opinion, that’s the day I’m done blogging.
And people are allowed to disagree with me. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 20, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lee Evans
Schobel could be cut this year and it would probably help the clarity at DE in the years to come.
TO gets thrown out because we’ve only got him for one year, and we haven’t seen enough of him in a Bills uni.
Lee is the only real receiving threat we have; without him Trent is reduced to short throws to the backs and Reed.
i guess im the only guy who voted yes
I voted yes because IF Schobel returns to health he will indeed be our most indispensable player. Our biggest problem is generating a pass rush, period. If Schobel doesn’t return to form we have nothing in that department, absolutely nothing. If Schobel can must 12 sacks we are in business and likely in the playoffs as it means our defense is putting teams in third down situations, our secondary is probably getting turnovers from pressure, and our offense is more able to control the clock while our defense rests. Schobel is HUGE this year to our success.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
I just don't see
Schobel getting 12 sacks… and yes I am prepared to eat those words if he does. But I see him getting more like 5-10 sacks.
I do however see other defensive players getting more sacks with Schobel in the game at full health. Just like Stroud not only is a good player but helps Williams and the rest of the D with the run defense.
People won’t be double teaming Schobel as much as they used to until he proves that he still needs that
well my point was that
Schobel returning to form is what makes him so indispensable. The author said that IF Schobel has his game he is the most indispensable Bill, and his game is 12 sacks. So I believe that yes, a 12 sack Schobel would be the most indispensable part of this team.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
Says who?
He was healthy in 2007….and unproductive rushing the passer. Why does his health mean he’ll return to double digit sack territory?
I’ll be surprised if Schobel gets back to 7 sacks again.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
again
the author says
When Schobel has his health and his game, he lifts the Bills defense to higher places.
And hes right, a 12 sack Schobel that we once knew would be the most indispensable part of our team. Obviously its no guarantee but thats why the author says “when” thus leaving it open if he will.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
I would vote for Edwards, then Stroud. Though I do agree that Schobel’s absence last season hurt a lot.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Aug 20, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions
Schobel wouldn’t be in my top 5.
This guy is basing Schobel’s indispensability on him returning to 2006 form, it seems. Well, his pass rushing productivity saw a sharp drop in 2007, when healthy, so why should we expect him to return to double digit sack numbers? He has to take into account Schobel’s decline.
Maybe with fewer snaps, which probably won’t happen anyhow, Schobel might be able to be more productive rushing the passer again. That’d be nice, and needed.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
If I was doing a top 5 minus Schobel it would be;
1 – Trent
2 – Stroud
3 – Poz (The LB cops isn’t good enough to survive long stretches without him IMHO)
4 – T.O.
5 – Lee
I think that Lee and T.O. are going to feed off of each other, and the offense will struggle if one of them isn’t in there. I’m not sure I would put Schobel ahead of any of these guys.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
1. Trent
2. TO (the no-huddle is pretty much predicated on him being out there and productive, aka the missing piece)
3. Stroud
4. McGee
5. Toss up for this spot. I guess Poz for the reason Eric mentioned. He’s also one of the leaders of our D, and from all indications, much more of a vocal leader this year.
5a. Kelsay
6. Evans
7. Kyle Williams
8. Hangartner. But only depending on how good he is. If the difference between him and McKinney is slim, then he doesn’t belong here. If it’s a wide gap and Hang proves to be a solidifying force in the middle of the OL, then this is where he belongs.
9. Leo (gets the bump for being one of the best return men in the league)
10. I guess I’d put Schobel here. Mostly because I think his run stopping abilities are the best from the DE position. Unless he becomes a double digit sack guy again, there isn’t a HUGE dropoff to Denney and hopefully Maybin, and even Ellis and Bryan. Yes, I said it. If he really is ready to be a quicker presence off the edge and give us a better pass rusher than he had when he was healthy, then he could move up.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
5a. Kelsay
Who are you and what have you done with Kurupt?
What can we do for you Mabin? You want us to say it with you… "Show me the money!!!!!!......WE LOVE THE BLACK MAN!!!!!......SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!" Now, will you please get a new agent and sign the contract!
Did the sarcasm really fly that far over you guys’ heads?!?!?!
I wouldn’t put Kelsay in the top 25
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I suppose so!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Why did the Bills give Schobel the money?
As i recall, Schobel was handed this 7 year deal when he was 30 years old. He still had a remaining 3 or 4 years on his contract when the Bills made him the highest paid defender they had. Again….STUPID!!!!!!! The guy is already on your team for the next 3 years, why extend him longer. O.K maybe if he was 25 years old, not when he is 30. After 30 many players are on their downslope. This was a complete waste of money. If you wanted to give him a bonus, O.K do that, but don’t give him a crazy contract extention. This Front Office is stupid. They give Schobel crazy money at the wrong time and almost didn’t give lee Evans his money. If the Bills didn’t extend Lee then they would have been even more of a laughing stock to this league. O yea and they gave crazy money to Kelsay to when he was 29 years old or so, another dumb move.
i was ok with giving Schobel the money
there is more to the business side then just being smart with how you dole out cash. You entice players who’s contracts are expiring to work a deal out to stay with the team when players see that the front office is willing to take care of those that have made major contributions to the team. Also, defensive ends have been productive later into their careers like Leonard Little and yes Jason Taylor. It wasn’t a waste of money either, they couldn’t have predicted his injury, he was coming off 12 and 14 sack seasons, we had not a single other pass rusher on the team, and he still had a semi productive 6.5 sacks. He was a pretty vital part of our defense considering he was our only sack artist.
How do you know the team almost didn’t give Lee Evans the money? They were just working out a deal and those things take time, they were probably being smart and not giving Evans more than they already did, which was a lot.
I completely agree with you on Kelsay though, that made no sense to me, at least how much he got. That I concede, was not a move I would have made.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
I remember Lee saying it was a tough process and he thought it may never get done. I am just saying, if Schobel had 3 years left on his deal, wasn’t complaining about money issues ( at least I never heard of him complaining) then why give him huge money. Its a similar case with Jason Peters. Peters was complaining about getting more money. I never read anything about Schobel wanting more. And the Bills should of just gave him a raise, not a whole new contract. And there are a few DE who play into their 30’s just like Terrell Owens is a freak, most players (probably 80%-90%) drop off after 30.
I would bet we didnt hear about Schobel because hes an honorable guy and kept his complaints in house, unlike Jason freakin Peters, who had to go and force his way publicly. A raise may have been a good idea but who knows, maybe Schobel wanted job security and was demanding a new deal behind closed doors. After a guy just posted 14 sacks following 12 (those are the numbers Mario Williams put up to give you a reference the last two years) could you really say no?
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
your probably right, and he did keep his mouth shut. O well, I would have just gave him a bonus, if we let him play out that old contract I think it would be up this year or so and then you could probably retain him for a couple more years at a cheeper price. Bottom line, I think they gave too much money to schobel and wayyyyy to much for kelsay.
Yes, Schobel was a couple weeks shy of his 30th birthday. Kelsay, however, was only 27 when he got his extension.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 20, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree about the Schobel thing. Absolutely hated it at the time. I disagree on the Evans thing because you have no idea if they almost didn’t give him a new deal. From all indications, the only way he wouldn’t have gotten his money was if he didn’t want to stay in Buffalo. They did extend Evans, so that shouldn’t even be an issue, anyhow….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
The Bills had the 13th best defense in the NFL last year in the bottomline category of Points Allowed (they were 14th in overall defense) without Schobel. If the offense had played better in 2008, allowing the D to play with a lead more often and also being able to stay on the field and give the defense a rest now and then, I suspect we would have had a defense in the top ten. So while Schobel’s absence did hurt, and while improving the pass rush is a major priority, if you are talking about who is “indispensable” you have to look at guys on the offensive side of the ball who can help us score enough points to win games. That’s where the key to a playoff season lies right now.
by Macktruck on Aug 20, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You said exactly what I was thinking. Rec’d.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Aug 20, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
this is a joke, right?
Bills had the same record in 2 consecutive seasons, one with him and one without. Sure, he has the ability to have a serious impact, but not nearly the most indispensable by a long shot IMO. At this point, number 7 would get that tag.
"it was an almost completely fabricated rumor"-Brian Galliford
No. 7?
You mean getting rid of Losman was indispensable? : ) I agree.
What defines an indispensable player?
To me, it is the person who if you saw go down for the year in week 1, you would probably think the team’s chance of playoffs were done. Like a certain familiar face we saw go down in week 1 last year.
That is not Schobel given his production in recent years. I doubt anyone would think “oh shucks, no chance of playoffs this year” were Schobel to tear his ACL in week 1. If Schobel was always produced when healthy, people might think differently.
It is unquestionably Edwards in my mind. If Edwards went down for good in week 1, everyone would (rightfully) have no hopes of playoffs on the shoulders of Fitzpatrick.
Next I would put in Owens, because without him, teams would go back to doubling Evans and take away our passing attack, focusing on stopping our deep and talented backfield running behind a questionable line.
Then I’d say Stroud because a mediocre DT would have to take his place.
i would say
our playoff hopes take a serious if not fatal shot if Schobel goes down. Who else is going to get pressure on the QB. I hope Chris Ellis, but certainly not Kelsay and certainly not Denney or Maybin at this point. I think Schobel is more important than people are giving him credit for. We lost a lot of close games, the two Jets games come to mind, that a sack or two in a few of them may have made a difference.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
I would say Ellis has a better chance of being Schobel than Fitz does of being Edwards.
What can we do for you Mabin? You want us to say it with you… "Show me the money!!!!!!......WE LOVE THE BLACK MAN!!!!!......SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!" Now, will you please get a new agent and sign the contract!
oh I agree
I just keep Edwards out of the discussion because I think on 90% of teams if the QB goes down its the most fatal blow so I don’t include QB in the indispensable discussion when being team specific.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
Got ya.....then I would have to go with Poz at MLB
What can we do for you Mabin? You want us to say it with you… "Show me the money!!!!!!......WE LOVE THE BLACK MAN!!!!!......SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!" Now, will you please get a new agent and sign the contract!
yea Poz is a good one
I sort of forgot that Digi going down left us pretty vulnerable
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
i think the most indispensable player is someone that nobody is mentioning, terrence mcgee. everyone always says how deep we are at cb but that is only bc we match up mcgee against every teams #1 and he does a great job. he is one of the most underrated players in all the nfl, maybe bc he is undersized or plays in a small market, but buffalo better cough up some cash for this guy and not let him run off like clements and winfield.
with Digi down, Poz has to stay healthy!
I didn’t even think about that! Scary prospect!
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
I was going to suggest mcgee
But the problem with putting a db down here is that we run a Tampa two. So really the db’s can only be as effective as the pass rush, which would put a dl above them in my opinion. I agree with most that TE is the most indispensible. The problem is that if your not a BB fan you don’t think TE is worth anything. It’s a shame because TE is about middle of the pack as far as qb’s in the league but no one even gives him that credit. Either way, this is a qb league and save Baltimore no team has had that much success without a good qb.
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
by silverstreak3k on Aug 20, 2009 5:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Given the Bills history, I think McGee has a new address next season.
The Bills simply don’t value defensive backs. That’s one reason why they’ve drafted so many and brought so many free agents in during Jauron’s tenure.
The evidence with Winfield and Clements is all you really need, but how many have we drafted in the last three years? Winfield and Clements maximized their value by playing out of their minds in their contract years, then went to the highest bidder. Buffalo never really even made an effort to compete with what the market was willing to bear.
The better question is, when McGee leaves, who will have been groomed to play in his spot opposite McKelvin?
by Defensewinsgames on Aug 21, 2009 5:15 AM EDT up reply actions
They will offer McGee a reasonable contract but they should not overpay for an aging CB like CSC was complaining they did with Schobel. That doesn’t make sense.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 21, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Most indispensible player – the same guy who has been the team MVP for at least three of the last five years. Maybe the best all-around athlete on the whole team. Yes….it is Brian Moorman.
Honestly – I would say Langston Walker is the most indispensible player. How does our O-line sound with Bell & Butler at tackles (with Chambers as the only backup)? Every other position I have comfort with some type of depth – but if Walker goes down, so do my playoff hopes.
im actually more comfortable
with Bell backing up Walker than I am with our depth behind Schobel considering Maybin’s decision that he doesn’t want to be a part of this team just yet, the lack of anyone behind Poz as LIBi pointed out, or what happens if TO gets hurt.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
Not indispensable, but really important
On most teams the QB is going to be the most “indispensable” player, since the offense runs through them. So I’d put Edwards first. Also a lot depends on him being able to effectively manage the hurry-up. I also agree that Stroud is key. I wouldn’t put Owens in the top 5 though. I think we could have a good year without him.
Schobel is important though. Whether or not he’s back in form is going to matter a lot more than what Maybin does this year. I emphasize “this year” just because I think Maybin might take a while to develop and is more important long-term. If Schobel’s days as an elite pass-rusher are over though, I don’t see us as having any better a pass rush this year than we did last year. Which is going to be bad news for us.
My Indespensable Ranks
1. Stroud
2. Poz
3. Edwards
4. Schobel
My ranks are based on who would replace the player if they went down. Spencer Johnson v. Pat THomas v. Fitz v. Ellis.
5: Kyle Williams
What???
How come nobody mentioned Brian Moorman as our most indispensable player? :P
I think Schobel brings a lot of hustle and grit, and he’s proved his worth as a pass rusher. Yes, he’s getting to that age where he gets nicked up a little easier, but I would still put him in the top 10 indispensable players on the team.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Moorman gets a ton of respect, and in my opinion, is due more than he currently sees.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 20, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The way the
Titans were running at Schobel, I can’t call him indispensable. I can’t say this enough. Schobel has never been the same since he lost the 20lbs. When Jauron came in and wanted a smaller faster defense for the Tampa 2 and asked all the players to shed the weight, that was the end of Schobel being an effective player.
Not only do I think he is a below average DE now, but even at his best he was slightly above average as a complete DE. Schobel isn’t even in my top 8 of indispensable players, and I could make a case for him being outside the top 10. In addition to him not being an impact player, he is a recluse and doesn’t posses on the field leadership, and I doubt he is one of those guys that the young players go to.
For what it’s worth here is my list in order of indispensability: Edwards, Stroud, T.O., Walker, Poz, McGee, McKelvin, Hangartner. Possibilities of being more indispensable: Wood, Whitner, and Lynch.
That’s bunk. Schobel had 14 sacks in a Jauron defense. Schobel’s declining production is because he is a declining player.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yes
and the following year Jauron wanted everyone to loose the weight. Go back and look. His weight is a major issue and directly related to his decline Kurupt. It’s hardly nonsense. If you don’t see the relation between Schobel’s weight loss and a decline in production, your not looking.
by Buffalonian on Aug 20, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I read you statement as when Jauron came in, it was the end of Schobel as a productive player.
Maybe you can blame his weight loss for his decline, but don’t you think Schobel and the team would have figured that out? I never said it was nonsense, so I’m not sure where you’re pulling that from. It’s not exactly something you can prove either. To me, from watching him play, it looked like he just wasn’t the same player, lacking some of his quickness and not being able to beat his man.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
don’t you think Schobel and the team would have figured that out?
Seriously, K? Are you giving the coaching staff that much credit?
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Aug 20, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. I apologize. I can’t believe I let that slip!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Right. Just don’t let it happen again.
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Aug 20, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
A key part of the Tampa 2 has the DL exploding into gaps faster than they can be blocked, which disrupts run blocking schemes and pressures the QB. Reading / reacting is pre-snap, then once the DL is through his gap.
That’s why you see the Bills run defense looking great, then getting beat by a long run (Monday night vs. Cleveland is a great example).
The DE, particularly the RDE, lines up wide and his first 2-3 steps are in pass rush mode. That’s why Schobel had 14 sacks in his first year in the system.
That said, I think Schobel is way better this year, but it may not show in the stats. Playing Jake Long, an improving Ferguson, and Matt Light for 6 games isn’t easy. His technique is solid enough to remain a good player.
Changed from Evans to Edwards
1. Edwards
2. Evans
3. TO
4. Stroud
5. Poz
We really do need the offensive players this year. RB is a bit of an anomaly; health at every other offensive position is crucial.
I voted NO...based on my useless opinion
1. Edwards
2. Poz
3. McGee
4. Evans (because TO is TO and is hurt and it too unreliable to be indispenable, then we have Reed, Parrish, a hurt Hardy and a sore Johnson)
5. Stroud
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 20, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
a hurt Hardy and a sore Johnson
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! I hate it when you have to deal with a sore Johnson! Though a sore Johnson is preferable to a hurt Hardy! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
edwards is not that good. you are missing Lynch, he is the heart and soul of the Bills. He fights for everything.
To me, “indispensable” doesn’t deal with how good a player is so much as how screwed we are without him.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 20, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on this, it's a tie between Edwards and Stroud.
Edwards replaced by Fitzpatrick. Fitapatrick has started, and is showing signs of life. Cincy finished 3-12-1 with Fitzpatrick at the helm for 13 games.
Pozluszny replaced by Pat Thomas. If Thomas isn’t decent, Mitchell can shift to MLB. And the LB’s don’t predicate a Cover 2. If Posluszny goes down, maybe it effects the record… maybe not.
McGee replaced by Corner. Corner is solid. And Cover 2 corners get safety help by the design of the defense. Does this effect the record? I don’t see it.
Evans/Owens replaced by Johnson or Parrish. Johnson or Parrish opposite Evans/Owens (whichever is hurt) isn’t ideal but not a year killer, but it would suck. We go 7-9 again.
Stroud replaced by McCargo or Johnson. McCargo has improved, but is still unproven. Johnson gives up a great deal of size. Stroud anchors the entire defense. If he goes down, we can’t stop anyone’s ground game, and that’s all she wrote.
We really can’t stop NE or Indy anyway. 0-3. Miami, Atlanta, Carolina, Houston, Jacksonville, Tennessee and Cleveland (with a healthy J. Lewis) run through the middle like crap through a goose. 0-8 vs. them, 0-11 overall. We’ve got a shot against TB, NO, the Jets, KC ; my guess is we split. 3-2 to be optimistic. 3-13 overall.
Or, about the same a Fitzpatrick-led Cincinnati.
Look what happened to the Bears defense without Tommie Harris. Look how bad the Colts defense has been without a good DT. If Stroud goes down, we better score a lot. A real lot.
How is TO unreliable?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It’s hard to make a case for a one-year player being indispensible in the Bills’ plans. So depending on how you see this, it could be because he’s only here for one year.
He said he was unreliable though. Nothing to do with his one-year deal. I don’t see how TO is unreliable at all.
And aren’t we only talking about this year?! The coaches probably don’t have another year anyhow.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I think you have to use a multi-year process to decide. If a player’s only going to be around for one year, then he can’t be indispensable. After all, if we’re using the word “possible” rather than “necessary” to describe a TO extension, how vital does that acutually mean TO is to our team? If Edwards, Stroud, Evans, Poz, etc. contracts were up this year, they’d be extended in a heartbeat. Reason? We need them.
The title of “most indispensable player” easily goes to Edwards. It’s not even close. This team cannot make the playoffs without Edwards. Not only do they have zero chance at playing a 17th game without Edwards, they’re probably picking in the top 5 with Fitz (who I do think is solid backup) starting 16 games.
Take Edwards out of the debate and it becomes a pretty intersting one. On one hand, nobody other than Trent is truly indispensable. And at the same time, Buffalo needs a lot of things to go right if they’re going to be a playoff team and they really need their important players to do well.
I think you can definitely make a case that the difference between a 10 sack Schobel who looks a lot like his old self is more important to the defense than anybody else, but I’m not sure that player still exists. I thought Schobel looked good against Chicago and if he stays healthy for a full year will be a good player. But I don’t think Schobel is any more indispensable than Stroud or even Poz, Wiliams or McGee. Evans and TO are probably more indispensable for the offense too. So while Schobel needs to be an important piece for Buffalo to improve, he doesn’t stand out as more important than a bunch of other players.
by kaisertown on Aug 20, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I think it would be crazy to say it is not Trent
If he were to go down for the season, all hope would be lost.
It would be so nice to have a stud pass rusher on this team, someone who just caused havoc on the QB. This would create so many played for our DB’s.
Dear Mr. Maybin,
Please take the deal that is on the table. I know you were hoping to put a hela pad on the yacht you are looking at, but that time will come. O and that 8th set of diamond earrings can be bought after you make your first sack.
Best wishes,
Concerned fan
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
Concerned Fan,
Don’t you realize I am just looking out for my future? Doesn’t everyone know that you need at least 25million dollars over a life time to survive?
Aaron Maybin
PS
My agent says I don’t have to listen to people like you!
PPS
It is KILLING me not to be practicing!
So instead I play Madden with Jason Peters
Aaron,
I realize this, I’m concerned for your future as well, I unlike yourself take other peoples welfair into consideration. Money does not equate to happiness and hold outs equate to upset fans who at one point where rooting for you.
P.S
Tell Jason an entire city hates him and ask him what it’s like to have a legacy of greed.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
Concerned Fan,
If you were as concerned about my future as I, then you would be knocking down the Bills door saying give this man some money, he is dying out there! And I am concerned about others, such as Aaron Benjamins. And don’t you understand I am the Bills savior, you all need me, I don’t need you.
Jason asks how you already found out Philly hates him, did they already find out he is not going to next years training camp?
Aaron “the Benjamins” Maybin
Aaron,
Thank you.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Aug 21, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha I just finished beating the Skins 59-0 in Madden 09
JP threw for 5 TDs and Scubba Steve had over 100 yds. Evans was close to 100, but they took him out of the game with an injury :-(
What can we do for you Mabin? You want us to say it with you… "Show me the money!!!!!!......WE LOVE THE BLACK MAN!!!!!......SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!" Now, will you please get a new agent and sign the contract!
Jason Peters was at QB? (j/k)
"I know I'm a true receiver..." Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills - May 2009
"In my heart, I know I'm funny." Lt Steven Hauk, Good Morning Vietnam - 1987
by thefourwinds on Aug 20, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but for some reason I have better luck running to the right???
What can we do for you Mabin? You want us to say it with you… "Show me the money!!!!!!......WE LOVE THE BLACK MAN!!!!!......SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!" Now, will you please get a new agent and sign the contract!
Just out of curiosity
Why does everyone say stroud? I personally love the guy ever since he played at UGA, so I know that I am obviously partial. But I’d like to
hear other peoples opinions on why.
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
by silverstreak3k on Aug 20, 2009 5:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
He is the one and only run clogger in the middle. The Bills would have a hard time stopping the run without him IMHO.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
They have a hard time stopping it with him. He’s just so much better than Spencer Johnson and McCargo that having them as starters would give us no shot….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Per Football Outsiders Almanac:
Marcus Stroud lead the Bills in “defeats” with 20, or plays which stop the offense from gaining first down yardage on third or fourth down, stop the offense behind the line of scrimmage, or result in a fumble or interception. Next closest Bill: Bryan Scott with 17.
Stroud also tied for 3rd best on team in sacks, although only had 2.5. Also tied for third in hurries with 8. I would say these are pretty important statistics. Add the aforementioned fact that there is a huge drop off from the backups, and I would say Stroud is 2nd most indespensible, next to only Trent Edwards.
For what it’s worth on Schobel, from Football Outsiders: "Aaron Schobel gave new meaning to the term “most valuable player” last year. While he only recorded one sack on the season, the Bills as a team rang up ten sacks in the five games Schobel started. Once he went down, the defense only managed another 14 sacks the rest of the year."
by StroudFanClub on Aug 20, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting stat on schobel
i guess just having him in there freaks out other o-lines.
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
by silverstreak3k on Aug 20, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Take a look at who we played though….
2 sacks per game vs 1.6 sacks per game isn’t all that different anyhow.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yes it is
2 sacks per game would have ranked us tied for 13th last year
1.6 sacks per game would have ranked us 27th (nor sure where this figure comes from)
1.3 sacks per game we averaged without Schobel would have ranked us 29th with just 20 sacks
Football. Bloody Hell!!
I screwed up the math. Oops.
I don’t think Schobel had much to do with the difference though. The competition did, along with having some successful blitzes.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Beast mode
Marshawn is integral and should get some thought. Perhaps Freddy could hold his place for a few games but a season without a Top 10 tailback in an inept offense (as we’ve seen in the past few years) would be catastrophic. My vote is for Marshawn.
Later Losman!
I agree with you on Lynch. I think his attitude ignites the team…sometimes so much that it gets to fisticuffs!
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 20, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That was on Rohdes a lot too.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 21, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone who thinks Schobel is only a slightly above average complete DE
obviously has a different opinion to me.
In the seven seasons that he played 16 games, he never had fewer than 6.5 sacks and had three double digets years, only once did he have fewer than 50 tackles, he had 42 in his rookie year and he has forced 18 fumbles. In the same time frame, 7 seasons, although 11 fewer games, Julius Peppers has had 2.5 more sacks. Schobel has more sacks than any other DE in his draft class.
However this does not mean that he is still playing to that level. In my optimistic opinion, i feel that a years rest will have done wonders for him and he will go to the pro bowl this year.
With the exception of Trent, Poz is without a doubt the most indespensible player on the roster because there is little depth behind him.
Football. Bloody Hell!!
I’m not sure that I buy the argument that Schobel is still a really good player, but you could certainly make a good case. It’s only been a season and a half of games since Schobel had 14 sacks in 2006 and the last healthy he had (2007) he forced 5 fumbles despite only registering 6.5 sacks. He’s not getting any younger (turns 32 in a couple weeks), but Darren Howard had 10 sacks in Philly last year as a 32 year old and people had completely written him off. Joey Porter is actually 6 months older than Schobel and a lof of Bills fans will be surprised to hear that John Abraham and James Harrison are only eight months younger.
The first point i wanted to make is that Schobel was a first rate DE who deserved to go to the pro bowl. His stats are very similar to Peppers, and few people would question his, Peppers, quality.
The second is that he comes into this year as something of an unknown quantity due to the injury last year.
The third was i cannot help but be foolishly over optimistic.
Football. Bloody Hell!!
I would go Trent, then Hangartner. If Walker goes down we have Bell or Chambers who could hold down the fort. If Hang goes down we have…. Seth McKinney? Not so much.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
