This is why I am not a fan of Trent Edwards
by csc06258 on Aug 24, 2009 2:08 PM EDT
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PrintSo if you have been watching the preseason, which most of you have, you have seen the ups and downs. In particular from Trent Edwards. However, what do you call the ups? Was it his 10-10 performance against the Bears that resulted in no points? I was shocked when everyone was like "WOW, did you see trent go 10-10." Are you people (reporters) kidding? 8-10 passes were dump offs the Lynch for a 1 yard gain. He made one nice throw to Evans and thats all he has shown. If you look at Edwards numbers you are utterly amazed by his good completion percentage but you fail to look at the other aspects. His completion percentage stems from the fact he checks down to Lynch or Freddie an awful lot. Take for example the Cleveland game. After his ridiculous start, he checked down to Lynch every play and Marshawn almost single handedly won us that game, the guy is a monster and I love him. Trent doesn't make the big throws. If you watch the good QBs, the Mannings and Brady's, the Brees's etc... they all make big plays in every game. By big play I don't even mean a 50 yard TD. I am talking about a pass more than 15 yards (this is what dick means by not being timid). I would love to see the breakdown from Edwards on his completion percentage at various yardages. Where does he pick up his stats in regards to completion percentage? could it be his great ability to check down? I'm sorry but a decent high school QB can check down like Edwards (thats not saying a lot for Losman). Trent never makes big plays and hasn't even led the first team to any points. He doesn't take shots, he doesnt put points on the board and most of all he is boring to watch. He only put in 11 TD's I think last year, thats not great at all. I'll give him this year but I can bet this team drafts a Q.B if they are sitting at Pick 10 or higher (which they will be) and especially if they have a new coaching staff. It seems to be the trend to start a new franchise with a new franchise Q.B. I know this is a little early to be calling Trent a failure and that he won't do anything this year, but I just don't see him succeeding. Don't blame the O-line either, I am actually impressed by them, and thought that they would be worse. Those sacks Trent took were his fault in the last game, especially the one where he ran right into the defender and fumbled. QUIT DRAFTING THESE QBS FROM CALIFORNIA!!!!!
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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a few things
I respect your opinion because Trent hasn’t show much yet but you have to remember last year was his first time as a full time starter. Most young inexperienced QBs make mistakes as opposed to learning by using their tight ends and running backs. JaMarcus Russel comes to mind as does Matt Leinart. Trent is in his third year and I think you will see a big step forward especially with TO in the lineup.
You say all he does is checkdown and thats probably because his receivers arent getting open. The one preseason game with TO Edwards hit him twice in one drive for gains over ten yards. Expect to see a lot of that in the regular season. That same drive he also attempted a (failed) shot deep to Evans. Everyone keeps trying to downplay the significance of TO to this offense. There is a reason Trent asked for him and why the front office got him. Every changes for our young QB with him in the game. Another thing you fail to mention in your analysis of what the Brees’ and Brady’s and Manning’s accomplish is that they have all world receivers. TO is our all world receiver. Expect Trent’s game to evolve accordingly.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
and Brees hasnt won any and Manning has one
Brady in his prime has had Moss. No one ever said all world receivers are necessary for winning a championship. He was pointing out that Edwards doesn’t throw deep and that he isn’t matching the numbers of those guys. Brady didn’t have the numbers then that he has now.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
Do you read what you write?
“Another thing you fail to mention in your analysis of what the Brees’ and Brady’s and Manning’s accomplish is that they have all world receivers.”
I would say 3 Super Bowl rings without any “all world receivers” is a pretty big accomplishment
The only way for Edwards to succeed is by having a pair of excellent WR’s, since that seems to be your argument, poz???
I wouldn’t say Brees has had all world receivers, and Brady never had anybody worth a crap other than a solid Troy Brown when they won 3 SB’s.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
again read above
you guys are confusing superb QB play with winning championships. You are also confusing my point that Edwards is young and needs help. Did you really expect a first year starter to light it up down field to Josh friggin Reed?
If you watch the good QBs, the Mannings and Brady’s, the Brees’s etc… they all make big plays in every game.
That statement had nothing to do with Super Bowls or Brees wouldnt be in the discussion so why are you guys pointing out Bradys titles. You can be a great QB without winning a championship, come on.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
Brady had Deion Branch’s MVP performance as well…
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Aug 24, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny thing about perceptions...
They are not always accurate.
From ESPN’s Insider splits (2008 regular season)
BY PASS ATTEMPTS CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK %
Pass Att. 1-10 85 133 836 63.9 6.29 49 2 4 0.0 35
Pass Att. 11-20 84 130 839 64.6 6.45 51 1 3 0.0 35
Pass Att. 21-30 61 90 837 67.8 9.30 65 7 2 0.0 24
Pass Att. 31+ 15 21 187 71.4 8.91 22 1 1 0.0 6
By my count 65% of his attempts last season were over 11yards, which doesn’t seem to warrant such harsh criticisms. I’ll admit that I’d like the 21+ yardage attempts to be a tad bit higher but not at the expense of too many interceptions. Clearly, these stats actually show that he’d be better off taking more pokes in the 21-30 range as his YPA are at their highest and that’s were he seems to get the best TD/INT ratio.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Those stats aren’t by yardage. You are looking at the number of throws made each game. Pass Att. 1-10 refers to his first 10 attempts of the game, Pass Att. 31+ refers to any throws he made after attempting 30 passes in a game already, and so on.
You were looking for these stats, I believe:
BY PASS PLAY CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
Pass Thrown: Behind line 52 67 288 77.6 4.30 42 0 0 0.0 84.6 0 0 0.0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 134 202 1177 66.3 5.83 33 4 4 0.0 80.0 0 0 0.0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 46 77 769 59.7 9.99 34 5 3 0.0 98.9 0 0 0.0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 9 19 285 47.4 15.00 65 1 2 0.0 71.6 0 0 0.0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 3 8 129 37.5 16.13 49 1 1 0.0 85.4 0 0 0.0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 41+ yds. 1 1 51 100.0 51.00 51 0 0 0.0 118.8 0 0 0.0 0 0
Basically, of the 374 passes he attempted last year, a whopping 269 of them were thrown less than 10 yards downfield. That’s 72% of his passes!!!
When he did go downfield, it wasn’t all that bad. He threw 105 passes over 11 yards or more downfield, completing 59 of them. The completion percentage is lower, as the passes are riskier and tougher to complete, but he average a sparkling 11.8 yards per attempt. That seems pretty solid to me and proves he needs to take the chances downfield a lot more.
I can’t believe those short passes he threw….72% of the time!! YIKES. That seems like a ridiculously high amount….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
For the sake of comparison (and I’m sticking with the weaker armed QBs, adding guys like Cutler and Rodgers would get pretty ugly):
Rivers – 293 attempts of fewer then 10 yards (61.3%). 185 longer than 10 and 55 longer than 20 (11.5%)
Pennington – 310 > 10 (65%), 166 > 10 and 34 > 20 (7.1%)
Cassel – 362 > 10 (65.3%), 154 > 10 and 38 > 20 (6.9%)
Orton – 322 > 10 (69.2%), 143 > 10 and 57 > 20 (12.3%)
Hill – 194 > 10 (67.4%), 94 > 10 and 28 > 20 (9.7%)
Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick – 266 > 10 (71.5%), 106 > 10 and 28 > 20 (7.5%)
Edwards – 269 < 10 (71.9%), 105 > 10 and 28 > 20 (7.5%)
Funny that some of these guys don’t exactly have bigtime receiving weapons either.
Pennington had Ginn (is he actually considered a weapon) and Bess/Camarillo for most of last year, and a TE duo of Fasano/Martin that is extremely solid but not nightmare inducing.
Orton had Devin Hester, Rashied Davis, Brandon Lloyd and a good set of TE’s in Olsen and Clark.
Hill had old as dirt Isaac Bruce, Panda, Josh Morgan, Jason Hill, Arnez Battle and el busto Vernon Davis.
Even Rivers had middle of the line receiving talent overall. Vincent Jackson is underrated and an absolute monster target, and Antonio Gates is Antonio Gates. With them, he had Chris Chambers and Malcolm Floyd. Meh.
Fitzpatrick had the ever solid Houshmandzadeh, although he isn’t much of a downfield threat, and what looked to be a washed up Ochenta y Cinco.
Anyone blaming the receiving talent for Trent’s inability to get it downfield should look at some of the receivers these guys had to throw to…..
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Thanks you are right, I took the wrong section.
Funny thing, I checked other QBs like Peyton (68%), Brady (in 2007) was at 67% even Drew Brees last year had 68% of his pass attempts that were either behind the line or under 10yards.
The huge difference is in the amount of attempts Manning (555), Brady (578), Brees (635)
So how come Trent only attempts to throw 34% less than everyone else?
I suspect that one reason could be because we don’t get the ball back fast enough on defense. Our bend but don’t break approach to defense might prevent points but it also takes valuable time off the clock when opponents dink & dunk & run the ball on us. We do not create turnovers often on Defense, so our offense gets less reps. I also think that our run blocking is one of the worse in the league which severely renders us one dimensional, resulting in loss of possessions. Another important factor is the Turn Over ratio, we are ranked 27th (-8). We were 21st in first downs per game and 25th in qty of plays, which sort of corroborates my hypothesis.
So I ask you, is Jauron’s job in Trent’s hands or Trent’s job in Jauron’s hands ? Play-calling, vanilla defense, lack of run blocking – all coaching issues Protecting the football is partially Trent’s fault but the -8 ratio is also because of guys like Royal last year that couldn’t hold on the the ball
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Well he did miss 2 full games and at least a full half in another 2 games.
Another reason for far fewer attempts is the inability to sustain drives and keep the chains moving.
The lack of turnovers from the D and them not able to get off the field in a timely matter was also a cause for that.
Trent and Jauron go hand in hand. If Trent fails, Jauron is gone, and so is Trent. If Jauron doesn’t put Trent in position to succeed more than he has, same result.
To be fair to Royal, he only had 2 fumbles last year. It’s not like he was putting it on the turf after every other catch.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yeah, two fumbles with only 33 catches – that’s 1 every 16
What pissed me off even more about him were the drops, which are not shown in the stats line. He was a horrible receiver, normally when we needed to move the sticks and went to the TE option we needed him to come through for us and make the play. It just seemed like a lot of plays ended on an incomplete to Royal or a fumble. I am not a fan and I am glad he’s gone. Royal was my Kelsay!
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
as i recall
royal made two or three clutch receptions right up the seam on the monday nighter with 2 minutes left to get the bills into field goal range. shanks lindell cost us the game.(on topic edwards 4 or 5 picks didn’t help, must have been the cold weather ;) ) if we would have won that game we were still in the wild card race. robert royal wasn’t spectacular by any means, nor consistent. but he was not the worst part of that team. not by a long shot.
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Aug 25, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He made one catch in the seam. A bullet by Edwards BTW.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the lookup
good work man. I told you he always just throws dump passes. Thats why his completion percentage is so good. I am obviously not sold on Trents abilities BUT i’ll give him the respect by saying, maybe just maybe its the coaches fault and playcalling-i bet its more like 75% the coaches fault. Its just crazy. It makes watching so horrible when you know you probably won’t see the ball thrown more than 10 yards on sundays…from the bills.
Yeah. It’s easy to completely disregard the 10+ yard throws he made in the HOF game to T.O. and Lee in his one series of work. The proff is in the pudding and we will see in the regular season.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 29, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
You lost me at the California thing. What does that have to do with anything?
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"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 24, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions
trent, rob johnson and losman all are not very good. we didnt draft johnson but we gave up fred taylor for him
… so? That still doesn’t mean anything. Tom Freaking Brady grew up in California.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 24, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
well they are 1 for 1, we are 0 for 3. I’ll take my chances drafting somewhere other than california any day. I dont like a QB they says " it was really raining hard and I couldn’t throw the ball.". Give me a break Bills FO this is Buffalo NY not san gatos california.
Aaron Rodgers played college ball in California and hes playing in Green Bay pretty well.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
Plus, Tim Tebow is a Floridian.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Aug 25, 2009 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s just a ludicrous argument to make. Sorry, but it is. Birth place? Where he grew up? These are not tangible or relevant in any sense.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 24, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree, I grew up in Buffalo, but now live in Tucson, AZ. Which during the summertime is 110. But that doesn’t mean the heat doesn’t bother me anymore then anyone else…
I would actually prefer they take people used to playing in the cold. and i would also prefer they practice “outside in the elements” when they are going to play in the “elements” How could you say it doesn’t matter? If a guy played his college career playing for Penn state in the cold, don’t you think he would be a little more prepared to face the cold when faced it. I also think thats a reason they took Maybin over Orakpo, and the whole Mike Williams incidient probably had an effect.
Guys used to playing in the cold? They can find players used to living in the cold. They can find players who are used to brushing snow off their car and shivering for the first couple miles until the car warms up. Maybe they can find some guys who played pick up games as kids in the snow and cold.
But colleges aren’t outside playing football in December. College seasons end in the pretty mild November. Penn St. typically plays a couple home games in mid-November. The average temperature of State College, PA in November is 40 degrees. There temp rarely approaches freezing and is regularly in the high 40s. Does playing a handful of games in 40 degree weather really leave players better prepared to play in Buffalo? I’d guess that most college players, regardless of school play either zero or one game in the snow their entire college career.
by kaisertown on Aug 24, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wanna go to a big 10 game at camp randall stadium in madison, wi in november?
by LeClaireBill on Aug 24, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Even Wisconsin plays about 1.5 games per year at home in November and the average temperature in Madison for the month is 35.5 degrees. Pretty cold, but you’ve gotta figure that for ever day that it’s 30 degrees, there’s a day that it’s 40. And most days that it’s near freezing, it’s still not snowing. So I’m still guessing that they play a couple of games in freezing or near freezing weather and a handful more in 40 degree weather and maybe a game in the snow. Does that really make anybody more likely to succeed in the NFL?
find a quarterback
from penn state, or MSU worth a damn the bills have a chance to pick and you may be onto something. its just the circumstance in which the best player is picked, even if they were born in durka durkastan
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Aug 25, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Kelly grew up in Pennsylvania but played college ball in Florida and was good for us.
Brett Favre is a Mississippi kid who played all right in Green Bay for a while.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with everything csc said. I am tired of hearing that he is young and he is going to mature…..R’berger, Eli and Brady were all pretty young when they won Super Bowls. Yes they had the D but they could also score points, something Trent can’t do. This team is doomed with trent as their QB and Dick as their coach.
My opinion……they go 3-13 get the first pick take a QB and hire Cowher
3-13? That’s the reality of it all? Because of a couple preseason games?
You guys have to be kidding. Where are the Punk’d cameras?
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
no because they have sucked for the past 10 years and nothings changed. you think adding T.O is taking us to the superbowl??? I think they win 5 games.
That argument is so ludicrous I’m not even sure where to begin. So much has changed over 10 years it isn’t even worth recounting. Beyond that the possibilities between 3-13 and superbowl are so plentiful there’s no reason for you to jump to the assumption that I think we’re going to the superbowl.
For the record, I don’t think we’re getting anywhere near the superbowl this year – I also don’t think we’re getting anywhere near 3-13. Probably closer to 8-8, not that it matters because WE’VE ONLY PLAYED A COUPLE PRESEASON GAMES.
3-13 or 5-11 IS NOT the “reality of it all”, and I’ll be saying the same type of stuff next time we have a great preseason game and the posts turn from ones like this back to ‘ways the Bills are similar to the SB winning Giants team’.
I’ve said it before and I’ll, apparently, have to say it again: the highs and lows of some Bills fans are way too extreme. It’s the preseason folks; it is actually one of the worst regular season success predictors out there.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
Highs and Lows
I have never come onto this site saying how extremely excited I am about this year. Am I looking forward to football and the Bills, absolutley. Am I excited….absolutely not. We were 7-9 lasy year, and what did we do this off season, besides adding TO, nothing. We drafted a player that may or may not be good in 3-5 years, we drafted some good Olineman that have potential. All I hear is “they will be good a few years from now”, “wait till Trent matures”. Come on!!! It has been almost a decade since we have been in the playoffs and the last time we actually won a playoff game……..1995.
It is hard to get excited about a team you love when they have done nothing to warrent it.
What could they have done to warrant your excitement between last season and this one if going out and getting a superstar WR, a relatively good draft class, and completely changing the offense into a more up-pace no-huddle designed to put points on the board?
I realize it hasn’t worked great YET, but at least wait until the games count to say it’s been a failure – and I don’t see how they could have done much more in the offseason, they’re certainly trying, you can’t argue otherwise.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
we havent played only a couple of preseason games. this is virtually the same team as the last three years with the same pathetic coaching staff.
Look, you’re entitled to your opinion – but if you hate the team so much and have no hope for them, I’m not sure why you’re even a fan. I could point out all the things that are different, but I clearly am not going to get through to you with anything so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
what the addition of T.O ok but the addition of a backup center and relying a great deal on a rookie draft class? They should have addressed the O-line and linebacker position. your put all your cards in the draft? the draft is usually a joke. I do think our later picks look good tho, so we may have lucked out. But my point is free agency year in and year out doesn’t improve our team and its expressed in our records.
I ask again, what would you have liked them to do? You say they didn’t improve the team in FA – all they did was sign one of the best WRs in the league, got an excellent 3rd running back, and then addressed one of the biggest issues © on the OL from last year. The Bills only have so much money and ability to sign players (last I heard the Bills were spending nearly as much as the Patriots) – they can’t just go out and sign every pro-bowler.
Not to mention that you seem to continue to overlook the fact that we changed our entire offensive philosophy to play to the strengths of our personnel. If you’re going to blame everything on the coaches and front office you should at least be willing to give credit where it’s due. I don’t see how you can honestly say they’ve done nothing to make the team better since last year. They’re trying a ton of new stuff, and maybe it won’t work, but you can’t really ask for much more.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
tell that to the ravens or steelers, who consistently refuel there team with what? their draft picks, and scrubs off the street who everyone else casts as “bills material”
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Aug 25, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That comes from a solid orginization and coaching
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
When the Gmen won the superbowl they had a #7 D and #4 running game, overall only an average #16 Offense. Steelers had the #4 Defense and the # 5 running game, not to mention both of these teams had stellar lines to work with, you cant compare these men to Edwards as they were brought into totally different situations. Now yes those men all won Superbowls while young but about guys like Rivers, Cutler, Palmer, Romo, McNabb should they be replace because they have yet to win the big one?
Lets not mention the fact that Trent has only had one season as a starter with no real options in the passing game, this season he does have the options and I’m excited to see what he does with them.
3-13? What kind of fan are? I’m one of the most pessimistic but i believe we can/should beat TB, Browns,Jets(2), Jags,Chiefs, and perhaps Texans and Miami (at least once). Never know maybe Indy and the Falcons could have the division/berth locked up so they may play backups =)
by TearsofaClown on Aug 24, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you tearsofaclown
Lets not mention the fact that Trent has only had one season as a starter with no real options in the passing game, this season he does have the options and I’m excited to see what he does with them.
How can you someone write witha straight face that Eli is an example of what Edward should be shooting for? He was mistake prone his first three years and the fans were making the same talk some are doing now. I respect the opinion but some of the comparisons to Brady and Eli are simply wrong.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
reactionary
Everyone was ready to drive Eli out of town the year he won the Super Bowl. That season going into week 1 was talk of firing Coughlin and dumping Eli.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
The year the Giants won the Super Bowl, Eli had his worst season statistically as a full-time starter….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
But he won the big game so nobody cared…
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
This is babble.
When did Drew Brees become All-World? His 4th season (really his third since he only played one game in his rookie season). Up to his third season, Brees was 10-17 as a starter, with 28 TD’s and 31 INT’s, with about a 6.1 average per pass and about 72 QB rating.
Similar for Brett Favre. He struggled mightily until his 4th season. Same story for Troy Aikman. Joe Montana wasn’t real good until his third season. Warren Moon’s first decent season was his 5th. Dan Fouts’ stats are brutal until his 6th season. Terry Bradshaw got carried by his defense and running game through 5 seasons where he wasn’t really that good. Go to Pro Football Reference online and check it out.
I’m not saying that Edwards will be a Pro Bowler or Hall of Famer. Maybe you’re right and Edwards does turn out to be a lemon. But at least hold your judgment until November, at least.
by Der Jaeger on Aug 24, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
All I said was that he makes plays and Edwards doesn’t. I didnt call him all world so dont put words in my mouth. Anyways I’d rather had Drew Brees on this team and we should have took him when he was a FA and i think most Bills fans on this sight who want to win would agree. If one of you say NOOO UHH I rather have trent you guys are just plain stupid and you helping this 10 year streak of no playoffs.
Seriously, what are you talking about?
Brees’ first four years were terrible. That’s why they drafted Rivers. The 2004 season, after they drafted Rivers, was Brees’ first good season.
Brees had four years to develop and is an All-Pro now. How can you compare him to someone who hasn’t had that same opportunity?
Terrible argument.
Im just saying he is a better QB at this point of time and when he was a FA. I don’t care how long a Q.B takes to develop. Edwards basically has 2 full years in. He started after week 2 when losman went down and practically played the whole season and then last year. and Big Ben, Rivers, Matt Ryan were all studs their first years and their are plenty more that come in a play. The guy is always hurt, complains about the weather, and doesn’t even throw the ball more than 15 yards ( ok maybe twice a game). Whens the last time you saw a long strike? or even attempt. you know its basically a 80-20 chance if T.O is one-on-one he is coming down with the ball, so he better throw it deep and high and let them man doe what he does. And back to Drew Brees, he almost broke Dan Marinos f’ing passing record!! I know they didn’t make the playoffs, but its because their D isn’t that good. You want Trent over Drew Brees than good you got him, but ill take Brees any day and so would my 15 other friends that are Bills fans.
Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat its failures
You don’t care how long a QB takes to develop? So, you would have given up on: Aikman, Favre, Bradshaw, Montana, Fouts, Moon, and Brees. All because they weren’t instantly awesome?
Here’s a reality check: Marino, Roethlisberger, Flacco, and Ryan are exceptions to the time required to develop and NFL quarterback. All the great quarterbacks listed above became great over time.
You’re giving Edwards no chance to develop, and then comparing a developing QB in his third year to an established Pro Bowler going into his ninth season. That’s comparing apples to oranges.
Of course I would take Brees over Edwards, right now. But who here would have wanted Brees in 2003? He was garbage then. No one believed that he’d be good, much less break any passing records. That’s why San Diego drafted Rivers.
Please tell me your not trying to compare Edwards to Losman.
by TearsofaClown on Aug 24, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Please go back and re-read everything...
… because your posts indicate you haven’t comprehended my argument.
You’re argument: Trent sucks. I don’t agree.
Secondary argument: Brees is better than Edwards. No one on this board would disagree.
My argument: history says give Edwards time. It’s too early to pass judgment.
So, it’s your opinion verses history. Interesting. Should be a poll.
Losman had 3 years. Trent’s had a year and a half. RELAX. Like so many people have said, that’s why they play the games. You don’t know that they won’t win. Der Jaeger’s Brees argument is valid. Run Edwards out of town and what if he goes to Denver and becomes an All-Pro? I thought that San Diego were stuck with the choice they made after drafting Rivers. Brees stepped up his game. Everything is set up for Edwards to have a great season and for the Bills to win some football games. He just needs to step up. I believe he can.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Aug 25, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
losman
was a leif, just 20 picks lower. losman had to go. plain and simple.
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Aug 25, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, you and your 15 friends would take an established veteran over an unknown?
Well, not to be outdone – I’d take Tom Brady over Edwards, Jeff Saturday over Hangman, and Antonio Gates over Schouman/Fine. They were all undrafted or late round picks, so clearly if the Bills wanted to win they would have simply drafted those players – just like if they wanted to win they would have picked Brees up before anyone thought he’d be any good.
If you disagree then you are just plain stupid and are helping this 10 year streak of no playoffs (though I’m not sure how since your opinion has no effect on what the Bills actually do).
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
OK. The stupids and the name callings are at an end, folks. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 24, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I was just quoting his line, shouldn’t have though.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
Was speaking to all parties involved. No need to apologize. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 24, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
thats just stupid brian
;)
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Aug 25, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Not the point.
He sucked prior to 2004. Four season of suck for Brees. By your logic, you’d have given up on Brees in 2002.
Miami chose Culpepper and his shredded knee over Brees if I remember correctly.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
you guys are just plain stupid and you helping this 10 year streak of no playoffs.
is that really necessary, just having a discussion here.
Of course having Drew Brees would be a major upgrade to having Trent Edwards but thats besides the point. Its similar to saying you’d rather have Albert Haynesworth than Kyle Williams. Obviously but what good does that do? They aren’t on the team and theres no way we’ll get them. The debate is whether or no Trent has what it takes to take the next step this season. Some of us think he does and some you don’t, its completely debatable and we’ll find out this year. Both sides can make compelling arguments until the season starts.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
Potential…. that’s all it is at this point. He could be the guy – the next Drew Brees. He worked out with Brees this offseason.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Trents stats are not very good in the preseason, who cares!
These preseason games only have one purpose as far as Trent is concerned, to get the rust out of his arm.
As far as QB play goes the preseason is even more meaningless than it is for other first teamers.
Now look at his career stats , he has improved in every area except the number of times he has been sacked, he has won more games than he has lost. His only real problem area is TD’s which is why the team has brought in TO and Nelson.
Trent deserves this season to prove himself and i am confident he can do it.
Football. Bloody Hell!!
by gregeng on Aug 24, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
this is very telling of what seems to be a picture perfect case of unrealistic expectations, and angst:
3 tds a game on a weekly basis is 48………….hmm…..all time record zip code.
2 tds a game on a weekly basis is 32………….hmm…..thats a damn fine season.
can we give edwards time to become a “good” qb before we expect him to shatter league records?
by LeClaireBill on Aug 24, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
completely agree
Philip Rivers only eclipsed 22 TDs last season with 34, his fifth in the league
Ben Roethlisberger eclipsed 18 TDs only once in his career in 2007 with 32, his fourth in the league
Drew Brees cracked into the 30s with 34 last season his 8th in the league
Eli Manning has still never thrown for more than 24 TDs in his career
Tom Brady was throwing in the mid 20s until he broke the record two years ago.
Asking for 2 TDs on a weekly basis is a lot for a guy playing one full season.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
im am just saying 11 TD’s is nothing, thats averaging less than 1 TD a game. The guy doesn’t make plays. I really dont see what you people see in this guy. He flashes no big plays that say wow this guy could be good. I am sure when it took these QBs “time” to develop they showed at least they have a good arm. This guy just looks good dropping back in the pocket, thats all.
he also had a new playbook, and a rookie offensive co-ordinator who was quite mundane, predictable and conservative. its like staring down the fairway of a 290 yard PAR 4, and pulling out the 7 iron. I didn’t come here to lay up, and I’m not going to a dance unless I’m going to grab some tit. Same goes for T.E, ( IN A ROUNDABOUT WAY) T.O was brought in so he doesn’t have to check down SO much, but in all honesty thats what good quarterbacks do. When LEE has the safety over top and the corner taking away the quick slant he had noone else to go to. Now he does. Now lets be patient. In the words of Will Ferrell “Let’s keep our composure!”
Trent is going to be fine, T.O. is a better #2 receiver than Josh Reed is. The bills will be o.k. and can make the playoffs.
3-13? NOPE……. *(crossed fingers)
Superbowl? LOL *(crossed fingers)
But then again, what do you think the Cards message boards looked like at this time last year? It’s any given sunday for a reason.
Later Losman!
by rockybillboa on Aug 25, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL......
funny post.
Oh well cant win em all.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Aug 24, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
BAH!
you have seen one crappy preseason performance and you want to dump TE? last year in the beginning of the season he did rather well, i even picked him up for a spot start on my fantasy league. brees and manning are crazy good athletes. thats 2 out of 32 teams. brady didnt even put up numbers like that until moss came in. we have TO and evans now, TE should be fine. if he doesnt pull some good numbers this year (altho last years werent HORRIBLE) i can see your point, but not until then.
your cali thing doesnt make sense either, kelly played ball in warm sunny miami and was the best qb to play for this team….
so your saying that the birthplace is whats important, not where he played college ball?
how does that make sense?
by silverstreak3k on Aug 24, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m from NY. So is my wife. She gets cold when it’s below freezing. So do I when I am sitting at a game.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t all human being that weigh under 350 lbs?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Exactly my point. I don’t care where a person grew up they are going to be cold if it’s cold outside. It’s why man built houses and made coats. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
and whiskey.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
AMEN.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Aug 28, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
so jason peters never gets cold....
im not saying, im just saying…
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The play that moves the chains is the right play. Trent doesn’t have to be chucking bombs like it’s Tecmo Bowl for him to be a good QB. If he there’s 6 DBs on the field and he checks down to Lynch for 6 yards, I have no problem with that. Lynch against a DB will always be a mismatch.
Efficient play will always trump the so-caleld “big play”. Look at the weapons on our offense. Lee gets a step on a guy and he’s gone. Owens owns crossing routes. Marshawn can’t be tackled by one guy. Fred Jackson has great burst. Even Nelson has looked like he can just be destructive when he’s on the field. Trent doesn’t need to go 15 yards downfield to make the right play. The right play is getting the ball in the hands of the weapons. They will do the scoring. The more opporunities they have to break a play, the greater the liklelyhood that they will do so.
If a dumpoff to Lynch gets a first down, do you care whether it was for 5 yards or 15 or 50? I don’t.
Come on, dude
How many three and out’s has the team had so far in the preseason? Three. Three. Four if you want to blame Jackson’s fumble on Edwards. And both of Trent’s interceptions have come on the plays you want – one downfield shot and one beyond ten yards.
Thank you.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
I realize not every play is trents fault, but hes got to throw the ball away or at least throw it up to a reciever thats one on one and give him a chance. Brady does it to moss all the time. I just hope edwards instead of taking a sack decides to throw the ball up to owens if hes one on one and not take the sack. The guy takes blame for the sacks too and says they are on him, so why don’t you agree with him. they are his fault!
A couple things to consider about the checkdowns:
They have to happen less often if Trent wants to be good. I don’t think there’s any denying that Trent’s style of play has to grow or the results won’t.
Blaming his lack of overall success on his recieving options doesn’t work. But if we’re looking at specific problems, ie: the checkdowns, the weapons have to be considered. Does Trent struggle to get the ball down the field because he simply struggles to get the ball down the field, or do his best options fail to get open on intermediate routes. Josh Reed rarely runs routes down the field. A couple of Trent’s best options have been the RBs and you’re not running them down the field. It’s been Evans and ….. Robert Royal? Roscoe Parrish? as your threats over the middle of the field and deep. Losman couldn’t get those guys (other than Evans, he was really good at getting it to Evans) the ball on 15 yard routes either. With TO in town, we will get the answer to this question, but for now, everything is speculation.
Well said as usual, Kaiser.
I don’t think any of us want to see Trent throw more short passes than he has to, but I would rather see him choose the option that doesn’t cause the turnover.
That said, the next step for Trent is to unleash the dragon. He’s got the players now, it’s time to trust them in 1-on-1 match ups. I think we saw this when Owens was in during the HOF game. As soon the defense shifted towards Owens, Edwards chucked it downfield for Evans. The team will need more of that to succeed.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 25, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the checkdowns are fine. There is nothing wrong with checking down. Trent just needs to make some throws down the field a little more often and increase scoring without increasing (might even need to decrease) turnovers. That’s no easy task, but it’s not like Trent has to completely overhaul the type of player he is either.
Taking shots downfield
is the best way of opening up running lanes, even if most of them are incomplete. The threat alone will help keep defenses honest.
Keep in mind that Trent’s numbers (% breakdown) are very similar to Peyton Manning’s so I think people are over-reacting a tad bit.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
While running possibility of sounding like a Jets fan...
CRAM IT!
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 27, 2009 8:19 AM EDT reply actions
trent edwards
i watch a lot of football , and one thing that is prevalent among successful starters is that they have a presence about them that shows you that this man can win. he may not but you never dough he can. Mr Edwards does not have that. He has the skills, sure is he a winner for a better term (no). buffalo has not had a player like that since blew dredso. only thing with him, his belief was more than his remaining talent. Edwards is a valuable player, but as a relief player not a starter. the very thing that will doom Kansas city , Cassel is that you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
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