Projecting the Buffalo Bills' final roster, V5.0
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 12:15 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintIn case you're new to Buffalo Rumblings, here's the scoop: because I'm obsessive-compulsive, because I'm a nerd, and because this is what the pre-season is really all about, we have already pored over four Buffalo Bills 53-man roster projections to date. We looked at one before camp, and one after the first week of camp practices. We've done the exercise after each pre-season game as well. This posting is the post-Green Bay posting.
I've got some minor changes to the projection. If you're interested in previous iterations, check our archives. All you need to know for this iteration is after the jump - and if you yearn to know more, just ask in the comments section.
We start at 80, and quickly move to 78
The Bills currently have 80 players on the active roster or close to it. As usual, RB Marshawn Lynch is an exemption, as he'll start the season on the Reserve/Suspended list as he serves a three-game suspension. WR James Hardy is currently on the PUP List. Having heard nothing to suggest that he is close to returning to the practice field, we'll keep him on PUP to start the regular season.
First roster cut-down: to 75
As Lynch still counts against the active roster, we need to cut four players to get to the first cut-down limit of 75 players (which will need to officially happen on September 1 - it's coming up pretty quickly). This shouldn't be a big deal. The four players cut here: WR Shaine Smith, DT Marcus Smith, LB Ryan Manalac, and CB Cary Harris (yes, our 2009 sixth-round pick).
Second roster cut-down: to 53
The second cut-down will take place on September 5, or one full week from this weekend's pre-season game in Pittsburgh. Again - it's coming up pretty quick. The Bills will only need to cut 21 players in this round of cuts, however, as it will be in this time frame that Lynch is added to the Reserve/Suspended list. The list of cuts in this round - obviously the most critical round - are below in the ultra-important blue box.
QB Matt Baker, RB Bruce Hall, FB Corey McIntyre, WR Felton Huggins, WR C.J. Hawthorne, TE Jonathan Stupar, TE Travis McCall, OT Chris Denman, OT Nick Hennessey, C Brandon Rodd, C Christian Gaddis, DE Ryan Denney, DE Ataefiok Etukeren, DT Derrick Jones, DT Corey Mace, LB Pat Thomas, LB Alvin Bowen, LB Ashlee Palmer, LB Solomon Elimimian, CB Lydell Sargeant, FS Ko Simpson
I'm sure there are a few choices that you disagree with in there. You can get after me about those in the comments section, but I'll explain a couple of them below. First, here's the final roster (minus Lynch and Hardy, who are obviously still with the team) in depth chart form:
| POS. | Starter | Backup | Reserve |
| WR2 | 83 - Lee Evans | 11 - Roscoe Parrish | |
| WR3 | 82 - Josh Reed | 17 - Justin Jenkins | |
| LT | 68 - Langston Walker | 77 - Demetrius Bell | |
| LG | 67 - Andy Levitre | 73 - Kirk Chambers | |
| C | 63 - Geoff Hangartner | 66 - Seth McKinney | |
| RG | 70 - Eric Wood | ||
| RT | 60 - Brad Butler | 79 - Jonathan Scott | |
| TE | 80 - Derek Schouman | 86 - Derek Fine | 89 - Shawn Nelson |
| WR1 | 81 - Terrell Owens | 13 - Steve Johnson | |
| QB | 5 - Trent Edwards | 14 - Ryan Fitzpatrick | 10 - Gibran Hamdan |
| RB | 22 - Fred Jackson | 33 - Dominic Rhodes | 44 - Xavier Omon |
| LE | 90 - Chris Kelsay | 93 - Chris Ellis | |
| D1 | 99 - Marcus Stroud | 97 - John McCargo | |
| D3 | 95 - Kyle Williams | 91 - Spencer Johnson | |
| RE | 94 - Aaron Schobel | 58 - Aaron Maybin | 96 - Copeland Bryan |
| SLB | 56 - Keith Ellison | 54 - Nic Harris | |
| MLB | 51 - Paul Posluszny | 53 - Marcus Buggs | |
| WLB | 55 - Kawika Mitchell | 57 - Jon Corto | |
| CB2 | 28 - Leodis McKelvin | 27 - Reggie Corner | 26 - Ashton Youboty |
| SS | 43 - Bryan Scott | 37 - George Wilson | 21 - John Wendling |
| FS | 20 - Donte Whitner | 31 - Jairus Byrd | |
| CB1 | 24 - Terrence McGee | 29 - Drayton Florence | 46 - Ellis Lankster |
| K | 9 - Rian Lindell | ||
| P | 8 - Brian Moorman | ||
| LS | 69 - Garrison Sanborn |
And, quickly, here are the eight guys previously released that I'm working to bring back for the practice squad:
| WR C.J. Hawthorne |
| TE Jonathan Stupar |
| C Brandon Rodd |
| DT Derrick Jones |
| LB Alvin Bowen |
| LB Ashlee Palmer |
| CB Lydell Sargeant |
| CB Cary Harris |
Quickly explaining a few key cuts
FB Corey McIntyre: The Bills are giving McIntyre a chance to nail down the third RB role by giving him some touches. He's looked pretty solid on special teams. He's got a chance to make the roster thanks to the opportunity afforded him, but Xavier Omon has been much more impressive. Just don't count McIntyre out.
TE Jonathan Stupar: I have been trying to find a way to keep four tight ends. Right now, I don't think they can get away with it, simply because they need special teams bodies. Stupar has been so impressive, however, that I very nearly cut Derek Fine in favor of him. That still seems a touch unrealistic, but don't be shocked if Stupar steals a few reps from Fine just so the coaches can see what he does with higher units.
C Brandon Rodd: I kept nine offensive linemen. Given the incredible inconsistency and inexperience, it's hard for me to imagine the team being comfortable with just eight linemen on the roster. I think they'll keep a ninth lineman, even if said lineman isn't active very often. I almost made it Rodd. Given the fact that the Bills have one reserve OT (Bell), one reserve OG (McKinney) and one guy that can play both spots (Chambers), I just took the best player between Rodd and Jonathan Scott. Right now, it's Scott.
DE Ryan Denney: I had to talk myself into this one a little bit, and generally on an exercise like this one, that leads to me being wrong. Here's something I can tell you: Dick Jauron and this coaching staff are going to keep the best players on the team. Aaron Schobel, Chris Kelsay and Aaron Maybin aren't going anywhere, obviously. Chris Ellis and Copeland Bryan have been among the team's best performers at any position this pre-season. They're going to have a really hard time finding room for six ends on the final roster, no matter how appealing that may sound to some of us. I would still term a release of Denney unlikely, but it's far more possible now than when camp started. If any vet goes, it's Denney.
LB Pat Thomas: The ankle injury that Thomas sustained a couple of weeks ago has now kept him out of two weeks of practices and pre-season games. I've heard nothing to suggest he's ready to return. Meanwhile, Buffalo's depth at linebacker is so consistent and run-of-the-mill that the Bills will likely focus on keeping the three most dependable players they can find to back up the three starters (and six linebackers seems extremely likely at this point). Nic Harris stays. Jon Corto, at least in my mind, is a lock because of his special teams abilities. I chose to keep Marcus Buggs over Thomas because, even considering Thomas' "experience" (which isn't overly substantial), Buggs is essentially the same player.
As mentioned at the top, I'm perfectly willing to explain my rationale for each and every "made decision" in this projection. If you've got a question, fire away.
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Surprise cut:
Fine in favor of Stupar……I said it here first!
by silverstreak3k on Aug 25, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions
I said it in this article, I just didn’t do it. :)
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"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
why Fine and not Schouman?
I didn’t see any reason to believe that fine would go before Schouman, none at all. And when you look at the body of work with the amount of starts in both their carreers, Fine is doing much better. Fine is quite a bit bigger as a blocker, almost 25lbs bigger.
I would like to see them cut Schouman in favor for Stupar.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I’m trying to blend what (admittedly not very much) I know with a few predictions of my own. Right now, knowing what I know about Schouman, I believe he is a lock for the roster.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Why do you think Schouman is a lock for the roster?
What is it that you know about him?
Ha – nothing earth-shattering, I assure you. They’re comfortable with him. They’re not overly comfortable with anyone else.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that is all too true, and in my opinion it supplies further specific evidence that this coaching staff is incompetent (at least on the offense side).
Yeah, well, any person can use anything they don’t agree with as evidence that the coaching staff is incompetent, can’t they? I prefer to go by wins and losses.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely right — although in the case of the offensive coaching staff you could also use points scored as an indicator, and on that basis they look pretty incompetent!
Ha – no argument here. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer to look at the production on the field by specific players. Schouman doesn’t produce out there. Fine is clearly the better blocker, and he definitely shows up on special teams.
Stupar shows up on the field, and makes plays to back it up. Yes, he faces 2nd and 3rd team defenses. But he’s got hands and he gets separation.
Schouman should be the cut. But it won’t happen because Dick “likes him”.
by bruuuuce_02 on Aug 25, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
So does Trent, for the record.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Schouman and Hamdan should pay Trent royalties for keeping them employed!!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
i think most would be lying if they didnt say they werent impressed by hamdan this year
by silverstreak3k on Aug 25, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
If I look at the play of our 3 QB’s so far in the pre-season , my depth chart would be Edwards – Hamdan – Fitzy.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
Add Dick to the list
remember last year when rumors were flying about Trent’s man-crush on his coach?
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
you said you NEARLY did
im saying it WILL happen. I dont think they will cut schouman because hes a better all around tight end. whereas nelson and stupar have the hands but not so much the blocking, schouman is a more all around talent. whether thats warranted or not, i dont know. but i just dont see schouman leaving.
by silverstreak3k on Aug 25, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m almost entirely in agreement with Brian’s roster and would not be that surprised if Denney is let go. Two other cuts would not shock me: Seth McKinney and Roscoe Parrish. Roscoe could still be traded, but if not the Bills may decide his $3 million/year contract just isn’t worth it. They have other options for punt returners. McKinney is an experienced vet with a number of years as a starter, but when I have watched him he hasn’t looked that impressive.
Stupar of course is possible for the regular roster (there is no way they will cut Fine) and if that happens Shaine Smith could show up on the PC. He looks like he has a ton of talent and desire, but is still raw.
I doubt that McKinney or Parrish get cut.
MicKinney because he’s our most expirienced and versitile backup on the interior line. He’s our backup at centre, even if it’s Rodd that’s been the C for the second team and Mac on the third.
As for Parrish, yes his price tag is hig, but his return ability is worth it, especially after looking at the other pathetic attemps brought on by the likes of Rhodes and Hall. Parrish is essential in the punt return game, even if he’s useless for everything else. And as for his price tag, it drops conciderably next year, so I don’t think that the FA will mind giving him a bit extra this year. Say 1M per TD return?
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah what CBF said.
Rec’d.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone else believe that punt returners have a shelf life?
Also that Roscoe’s shelf life is probably expired? It seems to me that the average (and above average) punt returner starts to value his health and well-being and after a few years declines as a punt returner. No one else thinks Roscoe might start declining at his one good skill?
by syrbillsfan on Aug 25, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that your falsly linking the fact that players only return punts for 2 or 3 years (usually because their roles increase in other areas of their team) with the ability to return. Parrish is still a fantastic return man and as long as he’s returning 2 or 3 punts for TD’s per year, theres no one that can say differently.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dante Hall. His role never increased but he dropped off.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 26, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking of him. But he is getting up there in age, while Roscoe is still young. Don’t get me wrong, I do think that ware and tear does slow down a returner’s game, I just don’t think that Roscoe is anywhere near that point yet.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 27, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He is now… but when he was 27 his PR avg. was 6.6 two years after it was 16.3. There is a reason the Chiefs traded him.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, his abilities had dimineshed. But it’s for the opposite reason that Parrish is sticking around, his abilities have in the return game have shown absolutly no signs of being dimineshed.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 27, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
On McKinney, see Kurupt’s comment below, which is my reading as well. McKinney is experienced and versatile, but what use is that if the quality of his play is poor? Parrish may stay on the roster thanks to his returning skills, but there are other alternatives such as Jackson and Rhodes (whose one muffed punt was uncharacteristic for him) and he is clearly not a happy camper this year. Remember he specifically asked to be traded. Do the Bills really want to keep someone that disgruntled on their squad at such a high price?
Again I’m not predicting that either McKinney or Parrish will go. I’m just saying that I wouldn’t be shocked if it happened.
To be fair, that was the first time I specifically watched him. But he was quite terrible and looked downright awful against backups.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yeah but again, to be fair, the entire line has been downright awful.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a Lost fan, kry. Iteration is a part of my daily vocabulary.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I have abandoned these roster predictions in favor of...
Ghetts rosters predictions 4.0! Moo ya.
Founding member of the Dick Jauron Fan Club.
Why are we keeping a guy like Johnathan Scott, who wouldn’t get picked up by anyone else?
I really find it hard to believe they would cut Denney. He’s a more productive and cheaper Kelsay. You know where I’m going with that one. Anyhow, he’s been the 3rd DE and now all of a sudden he’s going to be cut? I find that hard to believe.
Why is Corto a lock because of his ST ability? Is he that much better than anyone else there? He has no defensive value because he’s a 215 lb LB. I don’t remember him making too many plays on ST’s last year, and so far this preseason, I haven’t noticed him either. Thomas, Bowen and Palmer all have more defensive value than Corto and are good enough ST’s players themselves.
That’s some pretty horrid LB depth. I’d like to have SOME experience behind the starters.
Why are we keeping Justin Jenkins? He’s a slightly above average ST’s player and has blown some of his opportunities on O this preseason. I saw they had Stevie at gunner last game, so it’s not like Jenkins is really needed for that role. With Johnson, Corner, Wendling, Youboty, Lankster and Byrd all on the roster, what exactly is his role? Let’s keep the 6th DE or another LB.
Not that it really means anything, but why do you have CJ Hawthorne ahead of Shaine Smith? Smith has looked decent enough in the preseason, while Hawthorne is small and slow.
I’m starting to think Rodd has a chance. I was watching McKinney a lot against GB, and he’s pretty terrible. He’s slow, unathletic and got pushed around a lot. That block he blew on a screen pass was also pretty brutal. I’ll have to watch Rodd and McKinney against Pittsburgh to see if there’s any difference in the two.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 25, 2009 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Regarding Jenkins:
Keep in mind that two players are going to have to go when Hardy and Lynch come back. Essentially, that will be Jenkins and Omon, as per Brian’s projections.
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill
There will likely be injuries by the time Hardy returns if he is on the PUP list. He could probably replace someone lost for the year. My point was, why do we have to keep Jenkins there when he has very little value? Keeping a player elsewhere seems like a smarter move to me.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
And I don’t wanna start a great big argument here, but I’ve been watching the D-Line for the last 2 games, and Denney has not looked as good as Kelsay. I know it’s hard to believe, but Kelsay has shown at least a little bit of passion. Granted, it’s only the preseason, Denney may just be trying to make it through unscathed. It seems like he has been in for more snaps than Kelsay, so he may not be as fresh. #92 hasn’t been playing like he has something to prove. Whether you want to judge who to cut on the strength of that limited sample size, I don’t know.
I’m not basing my opinion on two preseason games. Denney was a much more effective player last year.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Not true. Denney is actually older than both Schobel and Kelsay.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see OBD cutting Denney. they won’t completely stray from their conservative ways and taking an unproven player (Bryan) over a known commodity isn’t their m.o. I agree with K in that Denney has been more productive in the time he has been on the field (tackles, sacks, etc.) then Kelsey has. I wouldn’t hesitate to cut Kelsey over Denney at this point. Kelsey plays hurt and he’s a veteran, blah, blah, blah. we have held onto mediocrity far too long.
I don’t think 6 lb’s is sufficient. I would keep 7. Palmer was impressive but is hurt, Bowen hasn’t shown much but he’s coming off an ACL repair and Thomas is hurt as well so I would say that Bowen by default would be the 7th.
I don’t see Stupar making it to the PS. He’s been mentioned nationally and I am sure that some team would pick him up quickly.
why did Wendling make it when we have so many holdover special teams players (Corto, Wilson, Jenkings, Bryan, etc)?
I almost feel like the team will need to keep more lb’s, te’s because of the new rules regarding the wedge on kickoffs. agility and quickness are more in need for the players that used to form the wedge and the players that used to bust the wedge.
Having the LBs on the practice squad is enough. They won’t be active on gamedays as the 7th LB anyways. If someone gets hurt they just move up.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t share that opinion with the new wedge rules. I think lb’s and te’s are more important within the realm of special teams now.
by gatornation on Aug 25, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
As you have said. And I agree with you. But with the being said I think they won’t have more than 3 backup LBs active on game day anyways.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
they won’t completely stray from their conservative ways and taking an unproven player (Bryan) over a known commodity isn’t their m.o.
I was going to write almost exactly that but since you put it so well now I don’t have to.
I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?
by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Aug 25, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
I like John….he has nice hands..just needs to work on his balance. He locks his legs a little to much too. Definately a good filler for the occasional down. Especially with Bell hurt at this point.
Denney is gone…or they find a way to keep them all and trade Denney during the season. They want a faster line. Denney is out one way or another It’ll just take some time.
Corto had 10 tackles and 1 FF last year. In an interview I heard driving into work, he stated he was at 227lbs, figuring to be around 220ish when the season started. He’s an orchard park native, and has been playing well in the preseason. I have heard his sideline to sideline speed is among the best on the team. I think they keep him.
I agree with you on Justin….I don’t see him making the team unless they get rid of Parish (which I don’t see as likely). He’s fast….but thats where I’m leaving it. I think you could see them moving Nelson to WR spot until Hardy gets back, allowing 4 TE’s, and allowing more time to decide who to keep. It may also provide a potential trade for a draft pick next year from one of the dereks or Stupar. Just a thought.
I’m left feeling the same way about mckinney, but we need him for the other roles he plays. Line back-ups are def important. Rodd might have a shot. Waiting to pass judgement.
I love this
I was watching McKinney a lot against GB, and he’s pretty terrible.
K, gotta tell you I love this line. I have to ask though, is pretty terrible better or worse than just plain terrible?
The Dick Jauron version of the K-Gun...the Squirt Gun.
If McKinney is “slow, unathletic and got pushed around a lot”, doesn’t that make him the perfect fit for Buffalo? I don’t see the Bills keeping 9 offensive linemen on their active roster. They typically only dress 7 on game day. These guys aren’t about to get snatched up by other teams, they can always be resigned in case of emergency.
As far as cutting Denney goes, Denney was more productive than Kelsay in 2008 and Kelsay is more espensive… I’d cut Kelsay.
2008 Defensive Stats for Kelsay and Denney
NAME TOT SOLO AST SACK TLOSS FF BK PD INT YDS AVG LNG TD
Ryan Denney 58 40 18 4.0 5 1 0 7 0 0 0.0 0 0
Chris Kelsay 47 33 14 2.0 7 1 0 5 0 0 0.0 0 0
by Polish Lover on Aug 25, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I was watching McKinney a lot against GB, and he’s pretty terrible.
Agreed, I think I was the first to list McKinney as a surprise cut and I will stick with it. As you said, I will be watching him in the Pitt game. One more bad performance and the cut McKinney bandwagon will start to fill up.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
Unfortunately, we don’t have anything else…..
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
But at least he is a backup
We may have to put up with that as an excuse for our starters, but do we have to do the same with our backups? If he gets better, then fine, keep him. But, if he can’t even cut it as a backup, let the young guys have the spot. If we actually end up needing McKinney later in the season, he will likely still be available.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
Probably true.
Let’s see how he performs against Pittsburgh.
Maybe we could bring in a veteran OG still, although it’s doubtful we’d find anyone that could be any better. Guys like Pete Kendall, Terrence Metcalf, and Chris Naeole are FA’s right now, I believe. However, we would need a backup C, so those signings are pointless.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Who?
Brandon Rodd????
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 26, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you are right about cutting Denney in favor of young potential.
I also hope you are right about them giving Stupar some first team reps to see if he can maintain his prdoduction, and at least have a chance to prove he is better than Fine.
However, I highly doubt either of these things happen.
I am in full agreement (Galliford for Head Coach!), except maybe Corto who has been invisible to me on defense (has he even played?)
Corto isn’t a deffensive player though, he’s a STer. He’s only listed as an LB because they have to give him a position. As for cutting him because he’s only an STer; I think that your greatly underestimating how much Pull Bobby April has and how much he and DJ appriciate quality STers.
And as for the lack of OLB depth that keeping Corto would give us, then I’ll direct you to the player that I think will be the first off the bench for both OLB’s: Nic Harris. Ok I can hear it now: “You don’t only keep a Rookie as your soul depth at OLB.” I’ll disagree with that. While it is not a favorable position to be in, I think that Harris has played impressively enough this pre-season to be given that chance. This kid has all the tools to impress and develop into a great player in this league, and I for one would be very happy to see the coaching staff give him the oppertunity to show us what he could do.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand Bobby April needs good guys to pull off his magic, but aren’t we already keeping a guy solely for ST in Wendling anyways? And if we were to keep another for ST’s prowess alone, I would have liked to seen Costanzo stick around; Corto did not show up on ST’s nearly as much as that guy did. At least Pat Thomas is a good special teamer and can actually provide some fresh legs and quickness at LB too.
I dont think Youboty will be with the team come September
It does not matter how talented a guy is, if he spends more time injured than playing he wont help the team, So i would drop him and probably keep Thomas and make it 7 LB’s.
And i think Stupar on the practice squad is probably the right thing to do, there is no point having 4 TE’s on the roster.
"When Manchester United are at their best I am close to orgasm!" Gianluca Vialli
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was, you know, important - like a league game or something." Dick Butkus
You think Lankster is ready to play early in the season if need be? I sure don’t. He’s still pretty raw out there and needs to time develop. Youboty has played well for us when healthy, and would be able to contribute. I just don’t think Lankster can yet.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Agreed K, I think they keep Youbuty, and when he gets hurt about the 5th or 6th game this season we'll need his spot anyhow
For someone like Hardy or another body to fill a hole, but anyhow, at the point Lankster will be in a better place to contribute as the Quarter DB (5 CBs on the field D, used mostly in prevent situations) back since I think we see the Mc’s as starters with Florence our Nickel and corner the Dime.
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
plus
I don’t see us cutting him, I see us trading him, getting something in return. Youboty can definitely get some interest on the trade blocks
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
I can’t get behind cutting Denney or carrying nine OL with the flexibility we have in Chambers and McKinney.
I’d rather see Scott go to the practice squad in favor or a WR(Hawthorne or Smith) since we will have six WR’s, anyway.
Sending Scott to the PS will open up the roster spot for Denney.
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill
Jonathan Scott isn’t eligible for the PS.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
In that case, cut Scott and pick up a T off the waiver wire who is eligible for the PS.
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill
Why pick up one thats eligible for the PS? After Langston’s rather horrible performance last Saturday and Bell’s current injury I say that we cut Scott and go sign Levi Jones if for no other reason then to give good veteran depth at the position.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 6:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I too have a majoritively negetive opinion of Jones; he’s not the player that he used to be. That being said, we need help on the line, especially vs 3-4 deffences. I think our line will do fine against 4-3’s, but the 3-4 kills them. So why not sign Jones to be a backup and rotate him in to get about half the snaps on games where we face 3-4 D’s?
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Whats the word on Bell's injury? I think that can have a HUGE impact on who the teams keeps depending on that
If he will be out a long time, we will see 9 OLineman carried, if he is back say next week, we probably only see 8, and we snag a body from another team to stash on the PS and groom, hopefully another C/G combo player.
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
I'm liking the call on Denney
I like the guy and I really like what he brings to our team, but I think that at this point, with how both Ellis and Bryan have been performing, that Denney is expendable.
It’s either Denney or Bryan, and my money is on Bryan being cut. But I wouldn’t be unhappy if it was Denney. Lets go with the young guys on this one.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 6:09 AM EDT reply actions
Don't be so sure...
It’s either Denney or Bryan,
Ellis is the one that got bumped down to third team when Maybin arrived.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
with how both Ellis and Bryan have been performing, that Denney is expendable.
Not quite. Don’t we want to see how those two do against starters? We know Denney is a serviceable option for us, but what we don’t know is if Ellis/Bryan can provide run support like Denney can yet.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yes. K’s got the right read on this situation, folks. Ellis and Bryan still have a LOT to prove, and with Schobel out, hopefully we’ll see Ellis/Bryan (or, perhaps more importantly, Maybin) sneak in some first team reps in Pittsburgh.
As you’ll see in my post scheduled for this afternoon, I do NOT believe right now that Denney will be cut. I “cut” him here simply to convey that it is a real, if somewhat unlikely, possibility. Just wanted to get y’all talking. Think it worked. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
With Schobel being out
Does that increase the chance that they keep 6. Are you convinced that he will be ready for week 1.
Yeah the Schobel injury doesn’t change anything. He’ll definitely be ready for Week 1.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
How are Ellis and Bryan against the run?
I think that’s what the Bills coaching is probably thinking about. Denney is nothing else if not good on run downs. I don’t think Jauron would want to compromise that. However, Jauron has been acting out of character lately and maybe they will dump Denney in favor of youth and potential.
by syrbillsfan on Aug 25, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Denney will make the 53 man roster, while his preseason hasn't be awe inspiring
He is a solid player against the run, doesn’t get sucked up by misdirrection plays as often as Kelsay, and he did lead us in sacks ago. Also, I bet if you looked at the number of balls batted down by our D Line, Denney probably led us in that stat by a HUGE margin last year, dude has a huge wing span…
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
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Going with only 2 QBs
Why not go with only 2 QB’s ?
The Bills did it a few years back.
That would gives us a little more flexibility with other positions….
"Thinking is the hardest thing there is, that's why so few people engage in it!"
They did it a few years back for a couple of weeks. Then Losman went down and they re-signed Nall, then waived Nall for Hamdan. It’s been 3 QBs ever since.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
IIt's far from a given though
it seems like quite a few teams are only carrying 2 QBs these days. Really an experienced 3rd stringer is a luxury and with the numbers crunch at some other positions, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Fitz or Hamdan gets the axe and they sign a young guy to the practice squad.
by tm on Aug 25, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
But the extra QB can be “active” on game days without taking up a spot on the 45 man roster because of the emergency QB Exemption. The point is to find the guys who can be active on Sundays. The third QB can.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 26, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
3 QB
why keep 3 if Edwards goes down, or fitzpatrick the season is over, we could call up JP and be no worse.
Wow….
Jenkins on the roster – good
Denney not on roster – surprising
Marcus Buggs for Pat Thomas – not really surprising
Certainly will be interesting to watch. I have no idea how they can cut Denney but it’d be an electrifying development.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Where's the logic Brian?
I know you’ve said on multiple occasions that Jauron likes Kelsay but keeping him over Denney makes absolutely no sense at all. Kelsay is costing 5.6M against the cap whereas Denney is well under the million mark. Denney does as good a job or better than Kelsay.
The way I see it, cut Kelsay – save some cap room. Keep Denney in the final year of his contract, because we know he’s motivated to play well (for his next contract) and meanwhile we are grooming Maybin, Ellis & Bryan as replacements. Assuming one of those three emerges as a starter for 2010, we let Denney walk and draft another DE next year in the middle rounds.
Jauron is not the GM and I would lie to think there is some influence from Brandon/Modrak giving this some thought long term.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Ryan Denney’s salary is $2.4M this year.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Reference...
Kelsay’s salary is $3M and the cap hit if we released him would be $4M.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
what is the cap hit if we release Kelsay?
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
4M – the remaining cost of his signing bonus. So we would lose 1M to the cap but save 3M in actual dollars this year and 3.7 in actual dollars next year by cutting Kelsay.
No cap hit for releasing Denney, at least none that I can find.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Well we don’t have tons of cap room. We’re not close to the cap, I think it’s under 5M in cap space though.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re right I just checked but my argument is still valid, why pay 3.2M more for less?
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
No question your argument is valid.
Just giving the numbers. When I saw the Denney number I had to look it up.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, where exactly do you look it up?
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Rotoworld
Type in a player’s last name in the search box and it gives you contract details if it has them.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
You can use this too. It hasn’t been updated since February, but it is very helpful still.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Do we need Wendling?
Do we really need to keep Wendling at Safety. I would rather take my chances with the four we have and if worst comes to worst we could bring up Sargeant. I would rather keep 4 rotating TEs than 5 safetys
"The day you take complete responsibility for yourself, the day you stop making any excuses, that's the day you start to the top."-OJ Simpson
Wendling has a chance to be active on Sundays...
the 4th TE won’t.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
For a guy that is known for his ST plays, I haven’t been impressed. Someone enlighten me on why we keep players that don’t seem that good?
He can’t be any worse than Ko Simpson. (IMO Ko belongs in the UFL or CFL). But perhaps the front office sees Ko as a better value because he let everyone know that he is “worth millions”.
I'll donate $1 to help Mary Wilson pay the estate tax...who's with me?!?
by O.J. Is My Bodyguard on Aug 25, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re keeping him for the same reason as we’d keep Corto, he’s a Bobby April favorite and a stud on secial teams.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
But is he really a ST stud? Corto had made some plays out there, I don’t remember Wendling doing a whole lot.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
And I totally agree, I was just saying that thats how the coaching staff sees him and therefore why he’ll be retained.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Practice Squad
I know that if we put Ellis on waivers he will probably be picked up, but in the slim chance he sneaks through waivers does he have practice squad eligibility?
He does, but it’s not really even worth thinking about. I consider him a near-lock right now.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He also took first team reps in place of Schobel.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoops, I’ve got Denney on the brain. DENNEY took first-team reps. Ellis did not.
Yeah. Ellis is still a near-lock, IMO. I think they’re giving Bryan reps with the twos because he and Denney will ultimately decide the 5th DE spot. Just my opinion.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I think
what Bryan and Ellis have done is just overinflated. It’s been against 2nd team offense. I would like to see Bryan versus first team offense this weekend. Max Starks sucks for Pitt, so if Bryan could go in there and make a play or two, that would show something against a NFL starting LT.
I think it’s exciting with this group of DE’s. I think if Maybin can bring the energy and work ethic, that will help this group overall. I’m really excited to see Maybin suit up, and see his quickness can counter the sheer power of NFL Starting RT’s
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
I agree about Bryan and denney fighting for the spot only because if they were to even keep Denney this year, he won’t be here next. Also Ellis IMO has more upside then Ellis.
I know this is DJ make or break yr, but if we make it to the playoffs then have nothing but broken old men and star players that leave on FA, DJ would be gone next year instead of this…
But hasn’t Denney been getting reps as the 3rd DE after Schobel/Kelsay all summer?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yes. Just like Ko Simpson has been getting reps after Donte Whitner. It’s not completely relevant.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 25, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t Ko Simpson the only other FS backup available until Byrd was back?
I think Denney being the 3rd DE in the rotation means something.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I thought George Wilson played FS. Am I wrong?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 26, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he was the 2nd team SS behind Scott.
Has he been getting any FS reps at all.
And yes, I know, Wilson has played mostly FS for his career.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Man, I think Simpson and Wilson have been on the field together so what you’re saying makes sense.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
consider this: if we kept stupar, we wouldn’t need any other offensive weapons.
just saying.
doesn't buy posluzny.
If we keep Stupar, other teams will simply forfeit. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 25, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
waivers
we have to keep him, someone WILL pick him up if we waive him and pray we can put him on the Practice squad.
id much rather have him at this point then roscoe, jenkins, hamdan (we can always pick up JP ;), youbout
just my 2 cents
We can also always just pick up Hamdan again since he won’t be picked up either….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
All we need to do is when we cut Hamdan is have Trent offer to let him crash on his couch and hire him as part of his entourage
Then when Trent goes down, all DJ needs to do is call Trent’s house and wake Hamdan up from his twinkie induced sugar coma on the couch and get him down to OBD.
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
I want to be able to use the nickname “Drunken Stupar” so we should keep him if for no other reason than that.
Kidding obviously, but it’s hard to look past the impressive showings of Stupar and especially Bryan. I haven’t seen a Bills defensive end consistently selling out to get to the QB like Bryan since a certain HOF DE wearing #78. Not comparing the two at this point, but I’m certainly reminded of Bruce seeing Bryan sliding, diving, and nearly horizontal and still having the presence to swat at the QB’s arm or at least make contact with the QB. I want to see that pressure and that aggressive style of trying to get some turnovers from the DE’s. I want to see him get some first teams reps and see what he’s got! I want to see our third and long defense featuring Bryan replacing kelsay and maybe Maybin blitzing from a LB spot? That could work…
by BuffaloRepresent on Aug 25, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I would get rid of Wendling
For as much as Brian likes him, is as much as I want to see him go (not that he’s bad, just think it’s time to move on).
Yeah, probably the best scenario available. We can only keep so many ST specialists on the roster at one time without hurting depth at other positions.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Agreed, and no offense to Brian, but I think a couple of our rookies can easily fill the roles of previous special team players, but actually give us some depth – Nic Harris for one, the kid just always seems to be around the ball.
Nic Harris...
will cut his teeth on Special Teams, but he is more of a defensive player than pure special teamer. Corto / Wendling / Jenkins are pure special teamers, with Harris, Buggs, Wilson, Lankster, Corner, Youboty, and Johnson & Johnson (Scuba & Spencer) serving as back-ups, playing special teams, but can contribute at their positions as well.
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not cut Hamdan
I see no benefit in keeping him on the team. I highly doubt he would get picked up and if one of our qb’s go down call him at home and he can be in Monday morning.
Why keep Hamdan? To be totally honest, because he`s been playing better then Fitzy so far this pre-season.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 25, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
just a couple Q's
First, no one has really talked about the inside of the defensive line. How are they doing? Any injuries?
Next, although they were short plays, i believe Bruce Hall is leading the team in TDs. does that mean anything? ( this doesnt mean im a fan of him, just saying…)
Also, it seems to me like, although its preseason, Lynch has done nothing so far. Was the extra weight he put on harmful?
Interior DL is healthy.
Bruce Hall leading in TDs means nothing.
In regards to Lynch – maybe, I don’t think so as of this point. Jackson hasn’t done well either. It’s the blocking more than the back.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 26, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
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