Seven Bills in need of strong pre-season finishes
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 3:00 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintThe Buffalo Bills will take on the Pittsburgh Steelers Saturday evening in their fourth pre-season game of the year. That contest will be the last time that the Bills' current 80-man roster plays together in a live setting; next week, NFL teams are required to begin trimming their rosters down to the 53-man limit. Rosters must be trimmed to 75 on Tuesday of next week, and all the way down to 53 next Saturday.
Needless to say, several players have a lot to prove over the next week or so - even those who aren't necessarily on the roster bubble. We've got seven such names for y'all to ponder.
DE Aaron Maybin. Yeah, we know - he's obviously not going anywhere. But Maybin will be making his pre-season debut on Saturday - yes, it's official, barring a practice injury over the next couple of days - and how he looks will factor into final roster decisions. If he looks like a first-round pick should - talented and ready to make an impact - the Bills might be willing to shed a veteran at his position. If Maybin looks ill-prepared to make an impact as a rookie, the mindset changes in finalizing the roster.
(On a side note, I shudder to think what this blog, other Bills discussion locales, and my e-mail inbox would look like if Maybin struggles on Saturday. Please don't suck, kid.)
DE Copeland Bryan. His fate is tied in part to Maybin's, as outlined above, but Bryan has done his fair share of proving to this point in the pre-season. In each of the past two games, he has recorded a sack and a forced fumble. If he keeps up his impressive play, he'll make Buffalo's decisions at defensive end much more difficult, regardless of how Maybin performs. Then again, despite his impressive play, Bryan is still decidedly sixth on the depth chart, even if he's taking practice reps ahead of 2008 third-round pick Chris Ellis.
CB Ashton Youboty. After sitting out the Hall of Fame Game with a groin injury, Youboty has turned in solid (if unspectacular) performances over the past two weeks. The performances have not been enough to quell speculation that Youboty might be on his way out of Buffalo, however. With nickel corner Drayton Florence still shelved with a knee sprain, Youboty's roster spot seems assured if Florence's health is still iffy in the days leading up to the final cut-down. That injury, however, does not guarantee him playing time.
TE Derek Fine. Let's face it - all the skepticism in the world in regards to the quality of second- and third-team opposition doesn't take away from the fact that TE Jonathan Stupar is the team's leading receiver this pre-season (15 receptions, 155 yards, TD). Fine, meanwhile, has been merely passable, flashing his occasionally excellent run blocking and his abilities as a short-area receiver. If Buffalo's coaches decide to take the best players, an argument could be made that Stupar edges out Fine.
Fine will likely miss the Steelers game with a hamstring injury - so the door is now wide open for Stupar, as the third tight end this weekend, to steal a roster spot. A lackluster pre-season finale could end Fine's Bills career before it really gets started. We're not saying it's likely. We're just saying it's possible.
LB Pat Thomas. The veteran linebacker returned to practice this week after missing two-plus weeks of games and practices with an ankle injury. Buffalo's depth at linebacker is highly unsettled, and nobody outside of rookie Nic Harris is a lock to make the roster. Thomas has an advantage because of his NFL experience, but his roster spot will need to be earned as the pre-season wraps up.
SS John Wendling. How many defensive backs can the Bills keep? 6 corners and 4 safeties? How about 5 corners and 5 safeties? 6 corners and 5 safeties seems like a stretch, but it might be the only way a guy like Wendling can crack the roster, despite his being in Bobby April's good graces as a core special teams player. A few big hits and/or plays defensively could help Wendling's case.
WR Justin Jenkins. No single player is in a more unique position on the team. Will the team find a trade partner and adequate compensation for Roscoe Parrish? How soon will James Hardy be able to take the field? Exactly how concerned should we be about Terrell Owens' toe injury? If any one of these players isn't available, Jenkins probably makes the roster. Then again, if all three of them can take the field, Jenkins is a goner. His fate is tied almost totally to what happens with other players, despite the fact that he's a dependable special teams player and a reliable pre-season receiver. If he makes some plays in the final two pre-season games, the Bills might pick up the pace with some players (Parrish) and decide to wait on others (Hardy) - Jenkins has some cards left in his hand to play.
Any other players you'd add to the list, Rumblers?
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Ashlee Palmer
He came back this week as well. I think if this dude plays like he did in the first pre-season game he might just make it over Thomas.
Nice write-up Brian.
Palmer wouldn’t leap-frog Thomas, because Palmer plays outside while Thomas plays inside.
Marcus Buggs vs Pat Thomas
Ashlee Palmer vs Jon Corto vs Alvin Bowen
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
He might have way back in OTAs. The vast majority of his training camp reps have been on the weak side.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Palmer could make it over Thomas if Buffalo keeps 7 LBs though. How unlikely is 7 LBs at this point? 7 LBs is as or more common then 6 for 4-3 teams due to special teams. But with Buffalo’s general lack of talent and wealth of good PS eligible prospects, is 6 close to a lock? Buffalo only kept 6 last year and that included Crowell.
Yeah, I think you said it all with that last sentence. 7 isn’t out of the question, but all of the players are redundant skill-wise, and a lot of them have practice squad eligibility. I’m almost certain they’ll go with six.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see them keeping 7 either.
I was hoping to see:
Poz
Mitchell
Ellison
Harris
Corto
Palmer
But, if he Ash hasn’t seen anything other than weakside since OTA’s (I could have sworn I saw him in the middle during the second week of camp) I don’t see that happening. Buggs is gone, Thomas stays. They like Corto too much to let go too.
We need a backup MLB not two rookies OLB’s and a ST’er. Thomas and/or Buggs has to make it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 27, 2009 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Marcus Buggs and Pat Thomas split all the second and third team reps at camp. I never saw anything different.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
At MLB I should say.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If the nickel CB is going to be on the field 65% of the time as Chris Brown said in the recent Bills Digest, then a 7th LB isn’t nearly as important since the 3rd LB won’t be on the field all that much.
I’d keep 2 on the PS although I wish we had more experienced depth too.
I think 6 CB’s is much more important than 7 LB’s.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 27, 2009 5:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bryan is still decidedly sixth on the depth chart, even if he’s taking practice reps ahead of 2008 third-round pick Chris Ellis.
Do you know this on insider info? Otherwise, I don’t know it is decidedly so. Bryan was taking reps in Ellis’ second team spot the other day. Maybe it is because they know Ellis will make the roster and are giving Bryan a chance (though I would think they are each still on the bubble) or it could be because Bryan surpassed him on the depth chart.I’m pulling for Bryan.
No insider info, but it’s not exactly a magnificent logical leap to make: Bryan was a street free agent they picked up in 2007. Ellis was a third-round pick in 2008. They’ve got a much more significant investment in one player, and the level of play has been about equal this pre-season.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
My untrained eye thinks that Copeland has been significantly better than Ellis in the preseason.
I’d keep them both over Denney.
I totally disagree, when you argue that Jonathan Stupar is a better TE than Derek Fine. Fine is a much better blocker with more physical potential than Stupar (his hands are as good in my opinion), so to me there’s no way he doesn’t make the roster (barring, of course, a 10-catch 150 yard performance by Stupar in the game against Pittsburgh, but chances are that’s not going to happen).
However, I agree with our backfield-depth, and that it’ll tough pressed to keep 11 DB’s on the final roster. Right now, it looks as if we’ll keep 6 CB’s and 4 safeties (though I would like to see Wendling make the roster, because he’s simply a fantastic ST’er, who always makes a ton of plays on ST), which I have little trouble with.
In terms of the WR’s, it’s really going to be a big puzzle to finalize, as we need to know exactly how healthy (or the opposite) James Hardy is, when the roster needs to be done. It goes without saying that if he’s healthy, he’ll make the final roster, but if he isn’t fully healthy, it’ll get rather intriguing, since Justin Jenkins has been very good during all of camp and is a proven ST’er.
When all is said and done, I think Hardy starts the season on PUP (and is thereby out for the first six games of the regular season), though after that Jenkins gets the sack and Hardy takes his place on the roster.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Aug 27, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions
I totally disagree, when you argue that Jonathan Stupar is a better TE than Derek Fine.
… I never said that. I said the argument could be made. I, personally, would not make that argument.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think anyone has argued that Stupar is better (yet), but as a big Stupar fan it will be good to see how he does with this opportunity. Because the fact of the matter is, if he doesn’t have a good on the field raport with Edwards (he has it with Fitz) then all his stats don’t matter.
But I don’t know if I agree with Fine being the much better blocker. I would put them on a very even scale – IMHO
IF you put them on the same scale blocking
then why not go for stupar over fine? ive made the argument, and will continue to. and stupar has the good rapport with hamdan not fitzy.
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i would
what has fine really shown? hes a good blocker? schouman can be kept if they need a blocker, and stupar blocks adequately. so far stupar has out done fine in my opinion and deserves the nod over fine.
barring, of course, a 10-catch 150 yard performance by Stupar
jeez! in order to make the team you want him to have a tony gonzalez type day? even gonzo doesnt put up those numbers on a regular basis. im not sure what everyone wants from their tight end! stupar is a capable blocker that has shown a knack to get open and posesses good hands. the biggest argument is that he is playing against the scrubs, but that will change against pitts where hell be going against the 2’s. the pitt game should tell us some things, and if he keeps pace and fine keeps his pace, i dont see how they keep fine over stupar….well i can but it would be a mistake in my opinion.
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, I think you’re getting ahead of yourself. Stupar has proven a certain amount, but now he gets an opportunity to produce against better competition. Let’s see if he can do that before we start saying we’d cut him over Fine.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Like I brought up in my roster projection, as of right now Stupar has shown he SHOULD make the team. But being ahead of Stupar, he needs to show something with the first team offense. And though I never like to see anyone get hurt, I am glad Stupar gets the opportunity. My biggest question is, is it Trent who is not using the TE properly or are the TE’s just not getting open?
yea
well i mean maybe its pre mature to think stupar is ahead of fine right now. but i would at least say they are even. the pitt game will help decide it tho. im hoping that stupar can keep it up because if he can, he can become a very good TE. him and nelson could turn into a very good duo or trade bait!
on a side note. i had a dream last night that JAX released henderson, and the bills picked him up. the two towers back together….ah what a good dream….
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Hasn’t Stupar played significantly more than Fine this preseason because of all the snaps the 2nd and 3rd teams have gotten?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
i thought schouman was getting almost all 1st team reps
which would mean playing time between fine and stupar would be a lil more balanced. i really dont have the numbers though, so i cant say either way.
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems Nelson and Stupar have been getting all the 2nd half reps. At least that I can remember….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
i think they all have about a quarter of playing time each.
at least that would make sense…. which brings into doubt whether the coaching staff is actually doing that. maybe they are giving stupar more playing time so he can show what he can do. with nelson and schouman automatically making it, they want to see if stupar has the goods? who knows…
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to look at the Play by Play to see any trends….
2 of Fine’s 3 catches have come from Edwards. He also has another target from him. His other catch came from Fitzpatrick in the first half of the GB. He is not mentioned in the play by play in any of the second halves of the preseason games.
Stupar was in the entire 2nd half against GB, catching passes from both Fitz and Hamdan. He came in with Fitz midway through the 2nd Q against Chicago and was catching passes from Hamdan late in the 3rd Q before they stopped passing. I’m assuming he was the TE for the 4th Q when they were running the ball.
Fine didn’t play much against Tenn, but was in early catching a pass from Trent. Stupar was in early in the 3rd Q catching a pass from Hamdan and late in the game with Baker. I’m guessing he played some late in the 2nd Q.
Fine has probably played about 3 quarters of football in the preseason (a guess), while Stupar has played about 8 quarters of football.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
i know nelson was in there in the fourth quarter for some of those games
and if you hypothesis is stupar has better number because he played more, then i agree to a point. fine has 3 catches for 18 yards….in roughly half the playing time. less than 1/5 of the production stupar has put out…..
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Stupar and Nelson aren’t mutually exclusive. They could both be in or switch in and out.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I said the argument could be made. I, personally, would not make that argument
Brian with these symantics you are starting to sound English! :-)
"When Manchester United are at their best I am close to orgasm!" Gianluca Vialli
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was, you know, important - like a league game or something." Dick Butkus
(though I would like to see Wendling make the roster, because he’s simply a fantastic ST’er, who always makes a ton of plays on ST)
I honestly can’t think of a single play Wendling has made on ST’s. Can you refresh my memory? He seems to always be the guy we expect to be making plays, but does he actually make them?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I haven't heard diddly from him this preseason...
And I distinctly remember him missing an open field tackle on ST as well this preseason…
I think his athleticism makes people think he’s better than he is….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
The only play I specifically remember of him was in the Jax game wk 2 of last year. When Jax did the onside kick, Wendling was the only Bill to recognize it and almost recovered it. Unfortunately, he didn’t actually recover it.
"I wish we could convince our opponents to play their 2nd and 3rd stringers against ours for the whole game – when it counts." - TEMSON
by thefourwinds on Aug 28, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think this Steelers game will really showcase who on the bubble gets to make the team or not. Especially the LB situation.
Question: I havne’t done a lot of comparison, besides just stats, but is Denney better then Kelsay? Or vice versa?
good question
stats say Denney and I’m more inclined to think he does provide more value for the dollar. he’s slid down and played tackle at times and bats balls down from time to time.
with that being said I don’t believe either one bring a whole hell of a lot to the table.
Neither
has pass rushing skills to speak of. Denney is better at backing of the line and covering, and as stated can bat a ball down from time to time. Kelsay is better at sealing, and is stronger against the run.
Maybin
Obviously excited to see 58 out there, and I hope I am impressed
This will be the barometer for this team in my opinion. Ben will back against our D, and we have one of the Top 3 24 defenses in the league coming for us, and I hope they bring all they got, because I just don’t want a veil of success. I want real poitivity or just the knowledge that we’re not that good
The Bills CAN win any game
2008 Draftees
Four of last years picks are on the bubble; Fine, Ellis, Bowen and Omon, with Fine and Ellis seeming to be the safest. I hope at least some make it, or it speaks poorly on last year’s draft decisions. Should have drafted more DB’s!
i think omon is the safest.
with lynch suspended and jackson a lil dinged up, he makes the team for the first 3 weeks i would think, almost without a doubt. if stupar plays like he has been fine is a on a pretty big bubble and not likely to make it. but maybe thats just wishful thinking on my part.
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I would actually say Ellis is the safest. Omon is safe only through three games, and no matter what (unless theres an injury to Rhodes/Freddy) he is gonna be gone.
but he still makes the team.....
better than most players….. im not saying omon becomes a staple, at least i hope not (unless he becomes ungodly good). but out of that list omon makes the team, if even for 3 games. ellis and bryan to me are in a dead heat, which makes it a 50-50 chance either makes it, bowen probably wont.
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The only reason Omon even made the team last year was Dwayne Wright’s fumblitis.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 27, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You know who needs a strong finish…? Trent Edwards. Kid has to show us he can handle the offense and actually guide us into the endzone this year. His mediocre/poor preseason performance does not lead us to believe he’s going to be any better than last year. He needs a strong finish to build some confidence and instill some into the fanbase….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 27, 2009 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Fair enough. Rec’d.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I know this sounds like an excuse
and maybe that’s all it is, but I think he is a victim of below average coaching.
Why??? I mean other than the fact we would like him to
Unless I missed the point of the article, Edwards is certainly not in any danger of not making the roster or losing his starting job to Fitz or Hammy, no matter how badly he plays. I get your point, just not someone who fits the “theme”.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
Maybe it wasn't Brian's intent or the point of the article
but I saw this:
Needless to say, several players have a lot to prove over the next week or so – even those who aren’t necessarily on the roster bubble.
I think Trent has a lot to prove still, and really needs a strong finish. Is that so wrong?!?!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Is that so wrong?
Ha….no. I took that as more of a teaser for articles to come. I probably would not have thought much about it if Brian hadn’t rec’d your comment. I agree that Trent has a lot to prove, just not in a “to make the roster” kind of way.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
I still struggle to understand why it’s Fine who’s in danger of losing his job to Stupar, and not Schouman. What has Schouman proven in his career? Fine is a better blocker and showed that throughout last season. Fine is a good receiver too, though him and Schouman are about the same there. Fine also has a good size advantage on him, in addition. I hate that offseason workouts and preseason practices have put Schouman ahead of everyone. Fine has looked better to me during the games thus far, as well. What gives?
If it comes down to Youboty or Wendling for DB spot #11, I’m rolling with Youboty eight days a week. He’ll help us defensively, and he’s not a bad ST player himself. Wendling gives us what exactly? He jumps over the snapper on FG’s and gets a few tackles on teams here and there…Nothing irreplaceable. With Youboty, you have a talented CB that has proven he can make plays when he’s on the field. I also feel better having him on the field than I do Corner and definitely moreso than Lankster.
Even if Hardy starts the year on the PUP list, I wouldn’t keep Jenkins. Is he really a guy we need?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
always with the corner bashing.....
agree with wendling though, id rather keep youboty than wendling although i do admire his athleticism
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Liking Youboty better than Corner is bashing him? I think Youboty is a better player right now.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
i think youboty is only as good as his health dictates
and thats not a good track record. i like youboty and also think he is in a better position with better talent than corner right now. i dont think we lose too much between the two tho…. and as far as keeping one over the other, ill take a player that can competently play all 16 games (or most of them) then play 5 or 6 really really well and then be injured the rest of the way….
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
don't worry, Youbody will probably get injured in the Steelers game, making the decision much easier.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
i forgot to add
that i agree on the schouman and fine thing. i think i would keep nelson, fine, and stupar and cut schouman. i havent seen him do much of anything when on the field, where the other three do….maybe i have selective memory though. i just dont think th coaching staff is gonna cut schouman…. unfortunately.
by silverstreak3k on Aug 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
….which is crazy because Schouman seems to do very little on the field, yet somehow he’s the starter and the one they are most comfortable with. This is probably the coaching staff misjudging their talent at a position again….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I think they would have a lot easier time judging talent if they would give players a fair chance to perform with and against starters. Stupar, if nothing else, has shown that he deserves a look with the first team offense, at least in the practice setting. To my knowledge he has not been given this opportunity at all. Why should Schouman get all the first team reps when, as you mention, he has done very little with those reps?
Same argument applies to Kelsay vs. Bryan IMO.
It would seem only a matter of basic competence in coaching to evaluate players by giving those who have performed and made plays the opportunity to do so (at least in practice) against the first team defense.
by thejimbo on Aug 27, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed.....rec'd
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
Nice thoughts
I rec’d too
I wish this staff would have more competition. There should have been a ton of battles for starting jobs, not just at nickel back. It’s a joke so many guys were handed starting jobs without having to earn them, including the rookie guards.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
… maybe that’s another forthcoming article…
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 27, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Gee Wiz.....I was hoping for another "Players on the Bubble" piece :-)
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
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