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Projecting the Buffalo Bills' final roster, V6.0

In case you're new to Buffalo Rumblings, here's the scoop: because I'm obsessive-compulsive, because I'm a nerd, and because this is what the pre-season is really all about, we have already pored over four Buffalo Bills 53-man roster projections to date.  We looked at one before camp, and one after the first week of camp practices.  We've done the exercise after each pre-season game as well.  This posting is the post-Pittsburgh posting.

I've got some minor changes to the projection.  If you're interested in previous iterations, check our archives.  All you need to know for this iteration is after the jump - and if you yearn to know more, just ask in the comments section.

Star-divide

We start at 80, and quickly move to 78
The Bills currently have 80 players on the active roster (or close to it, in the case of James Hardy).  As usual, RB Marshawn Lynch is an exemption, as he'll start the season on the Reserve/Suspended list as he serves a three-game suspension.  Hardy is currently on the PUP List.  Having heard nothing to suggest that he is close to returning to the practice field, we'll keep him on PUP to start the regular season.

First roster cut-down: to 75
As Lynch still counts against the active roster, we need to cut four players to get to the first cut-down limit of 75 players (which will need to officially happen on September 1 - these cuts could happen literally at any moment).  This shouldn't be a big deal.  The four players cut here: TE Travis McCall, OT Nick Hennessey, LB Ryan Manalac, CB Lydell Sargeant.

Second roster cut-down: to 53
The second cut-down will take place, at the latest, on September 5 - two days after this Thursday's pre-season finale.  The Bills will only need to cut 21 players in this round of cuts, however, as it will be in this time frame that Lynch is added to the Reserve/Suspended list.  The list of cuts in this round - obviously the most critical round - are below in the ultra-important blue box.

QB Matt Baker, RB Bruce Hall, FB Corey McIntyre, WR Felton Huggins, WR C.J. Hawthorne, WR Shaine Smith, TE Jonathan Stupar, OT Jonathan Scott, OT Chris Denman, C Christian Gaddis, DE Copeland Bryan, DE Ataefiok Etukeren, DT Derrick Jones, DT Marcus Smith, DT Corey Mace, LB Pat Thomas, LB Alvin Bowen, LB Ashlee Palmer, LB Solomon Elimimian, CB Cary Harris, FS Ko Simpson

I'm sure there are a few choices that you disagree with in there.  You can get after me about those in the comments section, as I won't be taking the time to explain many of the same cuts that I've made in the past.  First, here's the final roster (minus Lynch and Hardy, who are obviously still with the team) in depth chart form:

POS. Starter Backup Reserve
WR2 83 - Lee Evans 13 - Steve Johnson
17 - Justin Jenkins
TE2 86 - Derek Fine
89 - Shawn Nelson
LT 68 - Langston Walker 77 - Demetrius Bell
LG 67 - Andy Levitre 73 - Kirk Chambers
C 63 - Geoff Hangartner 66 - Seth McKinney
RG 70 - Eric Wood 62 - Brandon Rodd
RT 60 - Brad Butler
TE1 80 - Derek Schouman

WR1 81 - Terrell Owens 82 - Josh Reed
11 - Roscoe Parrish
QB 5 - Trent Edwards 14 - Ryan Fitzpatrick 10 - Gibran Hamdan
RB 22 - Fred Jackson 33 - Dominic Rhodes 44 - Xavier Omon
LE 90 - Chris Kelsay 92 - Ryan Denney
93 - Chris Ellis
D1 99 - Marcus Stroud 97 - John McCargo
D3 95 - Kyle Williams 91 - Spencer Johnson
RE 94 - Aaron Schobel 58 - Aaron Maybin
SLB 56 - Keith Ellison 54 - Nic Harris
MLB 51 - Paul Posluszny 53 - Marcus Buggs
WLB 55 - Kawika Mitchell 57 - Jon Corto
CB2 28 - Leodis McKelvin 27 - Reggie Corner 26 - Ashton Youboty
SS 43 - Bryan Scott 37 - George Wilson 21 - John Wendling
FS 20 - Donte Whitner 31 - Jairus Byrd
CB1 24 - Terrence McGee 29 - Drayton Florence 46 - Ellis Lankster
K 9 - Rian Lindell
P 8 - Brian Moorman
LS 69 - Garrison Sanborn

And, quickly, here are the eight guys previously released that I'm working to bring back for the practice squad:

WR C.J. Hawthorne
TE Jonathan Stupar
OT Chris Denman
DT Derrick Jones
LB Alvin Bowen
LB Ashlee Palmer
CB Lydell Sargeant
CB Cary Harris

Again - you've heard many of my explanations already.  If you have questions, ask them.  If you see things differently, tell us about it.  Have at it.

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I’m keeping Bryan over Omon. What exactly would Omon bring to this team?

I’m also perusing the wire over keeping Rodd if we keep 9 OL.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Aug 31, 2009 12:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I’d chance it, but I can’t see the Bills carrying just 2 RBs the first three games.

And there should be some pretty heavy combing over the LB waiver wire.

by Pistol on Aug 31, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Omon’s an insurance policy at RB for three weeks. Once Lynch comes back, we’d be cutting Bryan anyways.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, an injury to someone is an almost certainly in the first three weeks.

You cut Bryan before the season and there’s a (good?) chance he’s not there in three weeks.

by Pistol on Aug 31, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying I like cutting Bryan, believe me. But if the choice is between a 3rd RB and a 6th DE for the final roster spot, it’s crystal clear where they’re going with it.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s even more clear is that if we need to rely on either Omon or Bryan this season, we are probably in big trouble. They’re both last resort players if injuries occur, IMO.

I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill

by jj24 on Aug 31, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t see the Bills keeping 9 linemen this year. And as a result I don’t see Rodd on the team. Unless you see Rodd as being a decent back up for the future and after this year Walker being released? But still I think the depth at the o-line is pretty solid (in compared to previous years) so they don’t need as many players.
I am also not completely sold on Wendling this year. And when i have gone through who could be active on game days I just don’t see it happening, since he really doesn’t offer anything on defense.
Also, I haven’t heard much about Fine’s injury to the hamstring – but these injuries can be touchy, if he isn’t a go for game 1, do you think they stick with 2 TE or keep Stupar?

by Ghetts on Aug 31, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree about Rodd. Last year they kept nine linemen with Bell not playing a single snap (with that seeming to be the intention all along). With Bell, McKinney and Chambers as backups who can play multiple positions, it seems that other players are potentially more useful to the team than Rodd. The main contenders in my mind would be Stupar or Bryan.

by karovda on Aug 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t like keeping Rodd. I’m having a hard time thinking they’ll only keep eight linemen for some reason. I know it’s completely reasonable to think so. I just can’t.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

They will keep 9 linemen. THEY NEED TO KEEP 9 Linemen…but it won’t be RODD.

by Jaynice on Sep 1, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then who?

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Sep 1, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do THEY NEED TO KEEP 9?

They kept 9 last year, but two were projects (Bell and Matt Murphy).
They kept 8 to start 2007.

We have 8 guys that could play, and no real projects. What’s the point in keeping a 9th OL then?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 1, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, Mckinney is on his last leg for one. He needs to be benched, but they are going to keep him just because he is a vet. They have run into some minor injuries that could turn into major ones. Scott is the more logical choice. He can play on the right and left…Rodd will be on Practice Squad.

by Jaynice on Sep 1, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

They don’t really need a 5th OT though. Scott is pretty redundant for this roster, plus he’s not really that good.

I totally agree on McKinney being pretty bad, but unless we feel Rodd can handle the backup C duties (I don’t) then McKinney makes it. With that, Rodd should go to the PS as you mention.

If there is a C or G available out there to help, then 9 OL could very well happen. I just can’t see how we’ll keep 9 of the guys we currently have…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 1, 2009 6:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Will they need a fourth OT, however, if Bell can’t make it to the regular season healthy?

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Sep 1, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do they expect him not to be healthy? There hasn’t been any indications that he won’t be healthy enough by then. What do you know….?!?!?!?!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL relax. I can tell you’re fired up when you use a million punctuation marks.

I haven’t heard a thing.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Sep 2, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not fired up, just curious!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did the PK who was brought in undrafted make a push for RL’s job at any time. Did anyone see him kick in camp?

Sweet home Orchard Park.

by Undee on Aug 31, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Urrego was cut weeks ago.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks. Didn’t catch it.

Sweet home Orchard Park.

by Undee on Aug 31, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I saw him kick.

He did a fine job but wasn’t as good as Moorman or Lindell.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Aug 31, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bringing him in seems like a whisper to Lindell that he needs to stay focused.

Sweet home Orchard Park.

by Undee on Aug 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every team brings in a second kicker as a camp leg. The fact that he was cut so long ago means he wasn’t a challenger in any way.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only one change..

cut Rodd for Bryan and I think you have it.

I just hope Stupar makes it to the practice squad and doesn’t get picked up elsewhere. Did Stupar even play on Saturday? I think they might have been ‘hiding him’ a little so he has a better chance of making our practice squad.

by CBATL32 on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Stupar

Agree with Der Jaeger on this one. Keep Stupar!

Why not Bobby April?

by nickdaniels on Aug 31, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kirk Chambers

Shed some light on Kirk for me. I have seen a handful of ugly plays on the second team offense this offseason and it seemed like Kirk was in the middle of all of them. The same can be said for McKinney also. We have been so concerned with the starting five, but shouldn’t we be concerned with their back ups as well. I am sure the same can be said for the back up OL as for the starting OL, there was good and bad. Drafting Wood, LeVetri and bring in Hangartner was suppose to make our depth solid. I have concerns there.

by VanScottM on Aug 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Kirk Chambers is playing out of position. I want him back at tackle, and think that’s where the team prefers him as well.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still not sold

on them keeping Corto. Palmer and Bowen represent a investment they can’t afford to give up on or risk losing to someone else.

Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep Simpson and drop Wendling.

I also won’t be surprised if they cut Pat Thomas in the first round so that he can hook up with a team, since he should generate some interest.

I could see Stupar for Jenkins.

by Ono on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Palmer is not an investment. He’s a UDFA. Bowen was a fifth-round pick, so he was an investment.

I think they’re keeping 6 LBs. Harris is a lock, and I think Buggs is approaching that territory as well. Corto gets the edge right now because, as of Saturday night, he was one of our starting punt gunners, and didn’t do a bad job of it.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denney

why is he making this team? what has he done for the Bills? it really is time to move on. Bryan has been playing too good to keep him around. Also, would rather have stupar over Rudd. I know 4 te’s is a lot, but id rather have talent over a body.

by jwest529 on Aug 31, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL. Join the ever-expanding list of folks who don’t like that I kept Rodd. Already had two angry e-mails about it. I am not the decision-maker, folks, I’m just guessing. :P

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

People send you angry e-mails over your roster projections?

Wow!

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, I just make my own roster projection and do it that way – I don’t envy you Brian

by Ghetts on Aug 31, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea

thats kinda weird. seeing as though we have this handy comment section in order to complain….

by silverstreak3k on Aug 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people don’t feel comfortable with the anonymity of blogs and prefer the anonymity and ability to say whatever you want privately in an email.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Aug 31, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

im not mad at you, im mad at the bills. year after year they keep guys because they are “football” players. they can do what you ask of them, but none ever turn out to be stars. why not keep some guys that show some talent.. jim leonard, justin bannan, two guys that were on the roster, let go and now starting.

by jwest529 on Aug 31, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh no, I know you’re not mad. The angry e-mailers are mad. :)

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Aug 31, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree Stupar is a practice squad player. I agree Jones is a practice squad player. I actually think they keep Ko Simpson, Bryant, and cut Rodd and Wendling.

Rationale for cutting Wendling: Ko, Wilson, Jenkins & Corto can play Wendlings spot on S. Teams and he is clearly the worst of the 6 safetys. I saw Ko Simpson out there with the number 1 D on sat.

by Berg79 on Aug 31, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I’d keep Wendling. Bobby April is great, but we can’t keep gutting his units and expect them to stay great.

Jenkins is a neat project player that’s done good and lots of people like him. Simpson has more talent but less desire than he should. But neither is as good on ST as Wendling.

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well it all depends on whether or not Byrd is ready. If they have confidence that Byrd could replace Whitner in case of an injury then I would agree that Ko Simpson should be cut. However, I don’t believe that is the case, I believe Byrd is far behind and that the team would clearly put in Ko if Whitner got banged up. Therefore, Wendling would be the odd safety out.

by Berg79 on Aug 31, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ko Simpson with the 1st unit?

Sounds like somebody was being showcased.

by Boogie on Aug 31, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what? “Our underachievers that you wouldn’t want?”

Sounds like it was his last shot at the title.

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rodd isn’t making the roster, as that accomplishment goes to Stupar or a seventh LB is (likely Pat Thomas or Alvin Bowen). I don’t at all like our LB-depth, as it consists of three guys with literally zero experience playing in the NFL (Don’t tell me Corto could be a LB at this level, as he’s more a SS with LB-speed, i.e. not good combination).
I’d really like to keep Copeland Bryan on the roster as the sixth DE, but it just seems a bit far-fetched keeping six DE’s at this point, at least from coaches stand point.
Pat Thomas would be my backup MLB, but Buggs seems to be a growing favorite with the coaching staff, in spite of having pathetic size (5-10, 223 pounds) for a LB.

by BillsfanfromDenmark on Aug 31, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

It may be far fetched to keep 6 DE’s but it is not that far fetched to keep 10 DL. Teams (not too often) keep 5 DE’s & 5 DTs.

However, I am still of the opinion that Denney should be cut. I feel a combo of Spencer Johnson (run situations) & Bryant or Ellis (pass situations) provide a better DE for almost every situation.

by Berg79 on Aug 31, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn how long will this mediocrity last....

you still want to keep Kelsay and Denney…keep this in mind they have done nothing in the pre-season why on earth will it change once we get to the Regular season….i cannot believe this crap stop keeping “DEAD WEIGHT ON THE ROSTER”..w/out Kelsay or Denney we do not loose a thing at all….its time for a new Regime at the DE spot and that’s Maybin Ellis and Bryan. all of these guys are young and are showing promise as DE’s and you want to keep denney and Schobel who have done absolutely ridiculous….

ps… its like keeping Alex Smith on the 49ers when you know he is clearly not going to win you games ala J.P losman… Stop keeping these players around, if it were any other player we would have gotten rid of them by now…why are kelsay n’ denney any different… and Kelsay had 1 tackle that was assisted against pittsburg but none of them i mean none of them got to the qb (kelsay or denney)!!!! Give me a break n’ change that roster because you and i both know those guys need not make the roster… and by the way hell Ko Simpson hasn’t been any worst than Donte Whitner in my honest opinion…

by kbills05 on Aug 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

So you want to keep Schobel, Maybin, Ellis, and Bryan?

Take Schobel out, and how many combined snaps do these three have? So if your idea fails, what’s the fall back?

Why not just let Ellis and Maybin rotate as the starting LDE but keep Denney and Kelsay? Denney’s gone at the end of the season anyway, and if Ellis/Maybin play well, then you have the option of Kelsay going as well.

Good idea; no back-up plan.

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t see a reason for keeping Jenkins. Even with Hardy out, Jenkins is inactive on gamedays. His special teams ability isn’t getting him onto the field with Parrish, Johnson and Reed ahead of him. And it’s not like Buffalo will be in bad shape if a WR goes down, they can work with four, especially with Nelson, Jackson and even Schouman capable of lining up in the slot from time to time.

I love John Wendling, but I kinda feel the same way with him as I do Jenkins. It feels like a waste to keep a special teamer on the roster when he needs an injury to be active.

I know most people don’t agree with me on this, but I’d rather have Denney than Bryan. I think Denney is a different type of player compared to Ellis and Maybin. I just don’t see what Bryan adds to the team. He’s an undersized speed rusher on a team who drafted an undersized speed rusher in the first round, has an undersized player starting at RDE and still has high hopes for Chris Ellis as a pass rusher. Bryan was on the field a good amount last year, as a 25 year old third year player and was mostly a ghost. He’s only impressed against terrible players and I think he’s maxed out his potential. He wouldn’t be a bad player on a team who needed someone with his specific skill set, but we’ve already got that Maybin guy.

by kaisertown on Aug 31, 2009 1:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I like the way it is in the story, with the exception of Stupar making the team ahead of Rodd.

Jenkins is a place holder for Hardy. Not a Hardy fan at all, but it’s too soon to give up.

Agreed on Denney.

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes i'd rather have ellis, mabin, n' bryan (there young)

people are on here so adamant about keeping Kelsay and Denney and they will not get the job done at all n’ thats what i’m saying….if they don’t pan out then so be it at least we can draft a couple in next years draft….but we cannot keep on playin w/ kelsay, denney but i do agree to keep Schobel on the right side w/ maybin backing up n’ ellis n’ bryan on the other side….they are younger w/ quicker and fast, fresh legs… stop trying to keep these aging vets when they are not producing at all

by kbills05 on Aug 31, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey man...

it makes it easier to follow your comments if you hit “reply” on the bottom of the comment you are replying to. It helps the guy you are replying to find it, too.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Aug 31, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen to that. I have the same feelings about Denney and Reed. It’s time to give the young guns time on the field to produce or not.

Are we drafting Dino's now?
"6'6" monster receiver with a Terradactyl wingspan "....... Keysh67

by Billsfanstuckinthesouth on Aug 31, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that Maybin and Ellis should split time at LDE based off their showing this pre-season, as I’ve said in my posts.

But there’s the key: pre-season. What if they suck during the regular season? What’s the back-up plan if Ellis and Maybin can’t get it done in the regular season?

Keep Denney and Kelsay as back-ups. They have special teams value. If Maybin and Ellis do fine, they don’t see the field often. If Maybin and Ellis still need to develop and can’t handle the starting role, you always can put Kelsay or Denney back in.

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kelsay and Denney have very little special teams value.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Aug 31, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree. Both could cover punts as inside blockers. Both could be interior linemen on the punt block/return team. Same for the FG block team. They both could be inside blockers on the kick return. The only stretch would be kick coverage, and if we keep that many DB’s, it’s not an issue.

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t keep a guy with a $24M contract to cover kicks. Either he plays D or you cut him outright.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Aug 31, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

K, I don’t really like Kelsay or Denney. I’ve shown that with my posts. But you’re missing the point.

I want Maybin and Ellis to split time at LDE. What if their pre-season awesomeness turns into regular season fluff? Who do we turn to? Copeland Bryan, in all his glory?

What if Schobel has indeed lost a step, and we have to sub for him often? Again, we turn to Bryan? That’s no plan at all.

In one year, when we can draft another DE, and bring in another UFA DE, then I’m all in. Cut Kelsay and Denney loose. Until then, let Ellis and Maybin run with it, knowing you have two marginal and very temporary starters backing them up just in case.

by Der Jaeger on Aug 31, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Kelsay is on the team, he’s a starter. I feel dirty saying it, but that’s how they’re going to roll, unfortunately….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 1, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you there.

by Jaynice on Sep 1, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why keep both Kelsay AND Denney?

Like you said, we’ve reached the max of potential of these two guys, why not cut one and keep Bryan? (I have more of an affinity toward Denney as of late)?

There’s upside to Bryan and Ellis— we already know what we can expect from Kelsay and Denney— below average pass rush and decent run blocking. It’s time to stop making mediocre NFL players our firm starters.

by nateinrochester on Aug 31, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Injuries, plain and simple, plus Denney DID lead us in sacks last season and bats down a lot of balls

So he is at least useful, but it comes back to one thing, our top rusher is Schobel who may or may not play all 16, and Maybin who is young, so we need some vets in front to help take the load off

(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T

-textsfromlastnight.com

by WABillsfan on Aug 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Picks on the Starting Roster

But i think Higgins can make the team i seen him do very well this preseason and i think he can be a good 5WR right now because good speed and ok Hands Also he can block very well what i have seen from him.

GO BUFFALO

by kooldude on Aug 31, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Huggins has been fine but what WR do you cut to get him to 5th? Owens, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Johnson are all ahead of him at the minimum…

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Aug 31, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take Jenkins off for him

GO BUFFALO

by kooldude on Aug 31, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Jenkins is clearly better on special teams.

It’s a moot point… I don’t think either will be on the roster past week 6.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Aug 31, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still can’t see them cutting Copeland. With the no-huddle they are going to need extra rotational players in case of injury and Copeland is too useful to let go. I would also not be surprised to see Shaine Smith on the PS instead of Hawthorne or even Cary Harris.

by Macktruck on Aug 31, 2009 3:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Why do you keep CJ Hawthorne on the PS? He has no upside, while a guy like Shaine Smith looks like he might be able to be a fringe roster player with some time. Plus, Smith has a nice size advantage.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Aug 31, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

More importantly, do we need a WR on the practice squad, at all?

I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill

by jj24 on Sep 1, 2009 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Probably not….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 1, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Omon

Any chance that the Bills cut Omon, and pick up a free-agent (BenJarvis Green-Ellis from New England comes to mind, assuming he is cut)? Are there any other positions that the Bills might look to upgrade on the waiver wire?

by a.j. on Aug 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

the more i watch bryan scott

the more i like him. i think byrd has a good chance of taking over FS from whitner if he can show that he can make plays on the ball. i still like stupar to make the team. preferably over schouman, but my money is on fine. i dont really have an opinion no the DE’s. i dont think any of them have shown that brilliance that would cause me think that we HAVE to keep so and so. whether you keep denney, kelsay, or bryan, i think they will all probably produce at the same rate. we will have to wait till next draft or FA to pick up another good DE. keeping rodd does make sense, because you always need o linemen it seems. injuries can really kill a line.

by silverstreak3k on Aug 31, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

McCargo

Has big John done enough to warrant a roster spot or will the Bills be looking for a waiver wire pick-up and let John go?

by Goose22 on Aug 31, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Big John is a virtual lock to make the roster. He has played well.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.

by MattRichWarren on Aug 31, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brian, I finally understand why you like Marcus Buggs over Alvin Bowen. I saw him play against the Steelers this week. Buggs was one of our toughest defensive depth players out there. He played with an aggressive attitude and made at least two great tackles for loss in that game. He really can do more than just play special teams.

I can’t help but think about two former roster-fringe Bills when I think of Jonathan Stupar. After this great preseason, will his future be more like that of Fred Jackson, or that of Drew Haddad?

by Dyl on Aug 31, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions  

What is it that the coaches & Edwards like about Schouman?

What the hell does this guy do so well that he’d be TE1? Every time I single him out I realize how hot & cold his blocking is and his ability to get open is average at best. I’ll admit that he has decent hands.

I find that Fine with less than half the experience is definitely equal or maybe even better in both areas. I think Nelson will have a huge year, his blocking looks much better than I thought it would and his route running is exceptional, Trent has to learn to use him. Stupar was definitely a huge surprise and IMO has played his way onto the team. Mind you, I haven’t really seen any footage on his blocking ability, is he any good? So I could understand if Schouman was an incredible blocking TE or Pass catching TE but he is neither, he is a lightweight TE that is average at best, so why this infatuation? Does he buff DJ’s car on weekends or do Trent’s laundry?

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Aug 31, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Schouman is also slow.

"I wish we could convince our opponents to play their 2nd and 3rd stringers against ours for the whole game – when it counts." - TEMSON

by thefourwinds on Sep 1, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the reasons for keeping him just keep piling up don’t they? What the hell is it with him? Brian can you shed some light?

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Sep 2, 2009 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

The coaches like him. That’s all the light that needs to be shed, isn’t it? It’s not like he’s the ONLY tight end that will play. They drafted Shawn Nelson for a reason, so they obviously can’t like Schouman that much. Y’all will get fired up about pretty much anything these days. :)

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Sep 2, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never liked the guy and I simply have a very difficult time understanding this coaching regime and what makes them take decisions like this. Fine is a better blocker, bigger and is certainly the same or better in the receiving game.

Brian, when you see me go off the deep end concerning the coaching staff, its stuff like this that gets my blood boiling. I was really hoping that things would change this year when it comes to crap like this. All I know is that I doubt we need 4 TEs on the final roster and Fine/Nelson should get the nod over Schouman and Stupar has shown enough to warrant keeping him so in my books that leaves Schouman the odd man out. Letting go of Fine or Stupar would be an error.

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Sep 2, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK, but this is such an incredibly freaking minor thing – a third tight end?! – that is it really worth “going off the deep end” for?

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Sep 2, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

First, we are talking our the number 1 TE not third. If they had schouman as TE3 I’d be OK with it.

You are actually on to a point here, it is actually somewhat of a minor thing it’s just that they keep piling up into a huge heap.

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Sep 3, 2009 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Legibility for PS

I don’t understand how that part of the system works. How does one qualify to be on the practice squad and how come some players are not. Any explanation will do. Thanks.

by blowfishee on Aug 31, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Scroll to page 170

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Aug 31, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The relevant paragraphs, in case the PDF isn't working:

(a) The practice squad shall consist of the following players, provided that they have not served more than two previous seasons on a Practice Squad:
(i) players who do not have an Accrued Season of NFL experience; and
(ii) free agent players who were on the Active List for fewer than nine regular season games during their only Accrued Season(s). An otherwise eligible player may be a practice squad player for a third season only if the Club by which he is employed that season has at least fifty-three players on its Active/Inactive List during the entire period of his employment.

(b) A player shall be deemed to have served on a Practice Squad in a season if he has passed the club’s physical and been a member of the club’s Practice Squad for at least three regular season or postseason games during his first two Practice Squad seasons, and for at least one regular season or postseason game during his third Practice Squad season. (A bye week counts as a game provided that the player is not terminated until after the regular season or postseason weekend in question.)

by Krenn on Sep 1, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

thanks!!

i got it now. hmmm, why not make a few of those questionable guys on the PS for a year or two? and let the vets play it out this year?

by blowfishee on Sep 1, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I noticed that the depth chart went from 3 WR and 1 TE to 2 WR and 2 TE spots. Does this mean that they will be using that type of formation on game day? If so, might it make sense to keep only 5 WR to play 2 spots, and 4 TE to rotate in both slots?

by caboose on Sep 1, 2009 12:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, it doesn’t really mean anything. Just wanted to shake it up a bit.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Sep 1, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pat thomas

I don’t c them cutting Thomas I know he’s been hurt but I still think he’s better then buggs

by billsfan55 on Sep 1, 2009 1:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Cuts

Very safe projection. I believe that Kelsay-Corto and Fine will be cut/traded whatever. In their place will be Bryant-Palmer and Stupar.

by Bob on Sep 1, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Why Fine? What does Schouman have over Fine?

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Sep 1, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edwards man crush…

by Ghetts on Sep 1, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that is so, that they keep players because their QB is friends with them or something stupid like that they the coaching staff is certainly not doing their collective jobs. C’mon, that’s not even remotely possible, is it?

Performance & value to the team unit should be the only factor being considered.

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Sep 1, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you that I have no idea why Schouman is not only solidly on the roster, but the unquestioned starter. He’s proven to be a very mediocre blocker in his career and an average receiver. Fine has been an above average blocker and his receiving skills are currently as good or better than Schouman’s. He has an inch or two and 20 lbs on Schouman as well. Plus, the staff drafted Fine partially due to his proven special teams ability at Kansas. I still struggle to figure out what gives here. I guess the staff is so comfortable with Schouman’s mediocrity that it doesn’t really matter what anyone else has done or will do anytime soon!!!!

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 1, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

His mediocrity blends well with everyone elses

You certainly don’t want an over achiever in there do you?

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!

by keysh67 on Sep 1, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pictures of…..

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Sep 1, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

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