Bills practice recap, 8/4: defensive backs shine
by Brian Galliford on Aug 4, 2009 10:02 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintThe Buffalo Bills hit the practice field on Tuesday night for their third night practice of 2009 training camp, and they did so with good fervor. Perhaps it was because Hall of Fame QB Jim Kelly was on hand to take in practice at St. John Fisher College, but the Bills practiced fast and delivered plenty of good hits on the evening.
Our de facto camp reporter, MattRichWarren, was live on the scene once again. Here's a recap of what was noteworthy from tonight's practice session.
Keeping track of the O-Line
Much of the future work we planned to put into this little daily segment of ours was rendered moot when Bills head coach Dick Jauron confirmed to BuffaloBills.com earlier today that the team's starting offensive line is set. Langston Walker, Andy Levitre, Geoff Hangartner, Eric Wood and Brad Butler will officially make up the starting five. Still, it doesn't hurt to track their progress, right?
Butler missed practice tonight as he continues to deal with a back injury he sustained in Monday's practice. Filling in for Butler on the right side was second-year pro Demetrius Bell, who had a strong outing. He performed quite well in one-on-one drills and had a nice blitz pickup; he was, however, pulled from the lineup late in practice in favor of Kirk Chambers. It appeared that line coach Sean Kugler didn't like something that he saw from the still-developing Bell.
On the whole, the line's pass protection was solid most of the night, though they did spring some leaks late. Kyle Williams knifed past Andy Levitre for a would-be sack. The line (and the backs) failed to pick up a blitzing Bryan Scott, who reached Trent Edwards unscathed for another faux sack. John McCargo got good pressure working around Chambers early in the session (Chambers was at left tackle at the time). In case you needed us to state the obvious, this is still a work in progress - but each lineman has had his moments, and there seems to be improvement in some area on a nightly basis.
Good night for the DBs
Beyond the fact that Terrence McGee and Leodis McKelvin will be Buffalo's starting cornerbacks, there's a lot that is in flux right now at the position. Once again, Buffalo's coaches threw a bit of a surprise our way in the fact that it was Ashton Youboty taking first-team reps in place of McKelvin, who was limited on the evening as he continues to deal with a quad strain.
Youboty had a great evening, intercepting two Ryan Fitzpatrick passes in the red zone. Drayton Florence got some first-team reps in place of Youboty later on in the session, but that doesn't erase the big plays. Reggie Corner saw the bulk of first-team corner reps. This trio seems to do something a little bit different every day.
McGee had great coverage on a deep throw to Evans. We've mentioned Scott's sack; he was really the only safety to get in on the act. Even undrafted free agent Lydell Sargeant contributed, returning a Bruce Hall fumble for a score.
Tight ends continue to impress
It is (apparently; I'll confirm myself Thursday and Friday) fun watching rookie TE Shawn Nelson practice. Nelson continued his heavy workload in the red zone tonight, as he is routinely lining up in the slot in the red area. Early in the practice, he was working on fade routes with Trent Edwards. He later caught a touchdown pass out of a bunch formation. This kid's future is blindingly bright.
Nelson isn't the only tight end impressing, however. Derek Schouman (especially) and Derek Fine continue to make plays in the passing game as well, and both have flashed dominance as blockers. We don't want to jump the gun, folks, but the tight end position may finally be ready to contribute to a Bills offense. There are certainly very capable players here.
Injury Update
James Hardy and Jairus Byrd remain on the PUP list. Leodis McKelvin dressed, but was limited and did not participate in team work. Butler was not on the field at all; we heard a rumor that he was being iced down in the training room, but cannot confirm that. Steve Johnson, Copeland Bryan, Marcus Smith and David Lindquist did not practice.
The Bills have an early afternoon practice on Wednesday. Matt will be there again. The dude is a machine. Thursday and Friday will really be sweet, however, as yours truly will be at camp both days. Matt and I will be double-teaming this thing on those two days. (I know - TWSS.)
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Patting myself on the back....kind of
I looked back at one of my first draft predictions
3rd (75) – TE, Shawn Nelson – Is the vertical threat TE we should be looking to add. Has good speed, gets good separation, and has great hands. Might not last until round 3.
I later replaced him with Beckum because I never thought he would really last past the 2nd round.
"I BET YOU IF WE PUT A 12 DOZEN GLAZE DONUTS AT THE OTHER END ON KICK RETURN JAIME DUKES WILL BE OUR NUM # 1 RETURNER …… HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES DUKE APPLE PIE PUNKEN EATER DWINKE SMASHER DING DONG FLABER" - abayarde
great call
I am glad with his progress. I likened him to the Cowboys’ Bennett, the rookie last year, but it seems Nelson is progressing faster. I’d say it is due to the lack of recent talent, and the urgency attributed to making the TE position work; where as Dallas has Witten, and can develop a player more slowly. I like the strategy in theory that the Bills are using, but we’ll see if it pays dividends.
Another thought is that Nelson may be the player that supplants Hardy’s desired roll in the Bills offense. And when Hardy returns, probably not to op form until Oct-Nov, we might have such an array of weapons that teams won’t be able to handle us.
I see the Bills stat line as being varied, but high in total numbers where a lot of players have 20 plus catches…many of the players are certainly capable, that is why Edwards needs to assert himself as the leader, and make the type of decisions that get us into the endzone.
The Bills CAN win any game
I think everyone had Nelson in there at one time or another. Of course, we all thought he was a 2nd rounder, so win-win for everyone!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
If I remember right, I had Nic Harris in the 5th in my trade free mock.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
Hey both Nelson and Harris were steals where we got them. This might be our best draft in a long, LONG time.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 5, 2009 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s see them play a game before calling them steals and part of one of our best drafts in a long time !
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2009 3:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Giggity..................
Matt and I will be double-teaming this thing on those two days. (I know – TWSS.)
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Aug 4, 2009 11:27 PM EDT reply actions
That’s what she said.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"Our style is simple but not that easy. Roll up your sleeves and play good, solid football." -- Marv Levy
by Brian Galliford on Aug 5, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I mentioned it before, but if healthy, does anybody else think Youboty is our 2nd best CB? He’s probably the best playmaker we have there, by a considerable margin, is a great tackler, and has good, but not great, coverage skills. I think he’s a better CB than Leo at this point. In fact, I might even consider Leo the 4th best CB on the team, maybe even 5th, as ridiculous as that sounds. He’s the most talented and has by far the biggest upside, but currently he’s still raw and improving. The other guys all seem to be more finished products right now. This doesn’t mean I don’t think Leo should be starting, because he should be out there opposite McGee. I think he’s going to grow by leaps and bounds as the season progresses, but at this point, he’s not one of our top 2 CB’s IMO.
How raw does Bell look? I know he’s been playing well, but it’s probably pretty obvious he isn’t ready to be a starter. I’m wondering if he can contribute early this season if necessary. I still think he belongs as the 4th OT to start the season, with Chambers as the swing, but as he continues growing he should move into the swing role by year’s end. I’m anxious to see if his practice improvement translate during the preseason games.
We caught a glimpse of Nelson’s blocking in an earlier practice, but how has he fared lately? If he is a competent enough blocker, he will see the field a lot. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with the TE rotation if that’s the case. I also like this group and LOVE Nelson’s future.
I hope you guys are on opposite ends of the field for those practices. We don’t need any funny business going on in the stands….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2009 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
contradiction?
Kurupt, there’s a contradiction here. If McKelvin is “raw and improving” but is “likely to grow by leaps and bounds as the season progresses” and so should be starting, shouldn’t the same hold true for Bell (who appears to have performed very well tonight as the RT with the one’s)? If someone has that much potential, why wouldn’t you want to get him as much game experience as possible, at least in the preseason? I know that RT involves the resonsibility to protect the QB, but it seems clear that Bell is already very good at that. As fr his run-blocking, I thought he was doing fine the time I watched him, but let’s say for the sake of argument that he needs improvement in that area. Perhaps putting him in would blow up some running plays, but is that any worse than having Leo allow opposing teams to get into the endzone when he whiffs on pass coverage? If the idea is to grin and bear it with one young player who you think has a huge upside, why not do the same with the other?
No because I think Bell is much further behind. McKelvin has actual game experience and performed ok. Bell has never seen a snap. There is a pretty big difference between the two situations.
I know that RT involves the resonsibility to protect the QB, but it seems clear that Bell is already very good at that.
How so? Since he’s never actually played before, how can that be said?
I don’t know if I’d consider it grinning and bearing it with McKelvin. He is going to have his problems at times this year, but we saw him flash potential last year. Bell needs to get experience before we’d even consider something similar, IMO.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
My reply would be: How do you know Bell is that far behind? He sure doesn’t seem that far behind in practice. The big question is how he would fare in an actual game situation and the way to answer is to use the preseason games to evaluate him. Some players in the recent past (one thinks of Fred Jackson and Jabari Greer once he had blossomed) were ready to play much earlier than everyone assumed and it turned out to be an error on the part of the coaching staff to hold them back. It’s true McKelvin does have NFL game experience under his belt and Bell doesn’t, but McKelvin continues to make major mistakes that could cost the Bills big-time during the regular season, and yet you still want him to start (and I agree).
I’m not arguing for naming Bell the starting RT at this point. Rather, if Butler can’t go this coming Sunday I think the only smart move would be to start Bell with the one’s or at least get him a significant amount of playing time in the first quarter against first-string opposition. We all know what Kirk Chambers can do at OT for better or worse, so there is no compelling reason to start him. Then everyone (including the coaches) can see where things stand.
Well I guess you would be partially right that I don’t know if Bell can do it, but remember he was a raw 7th rounder that still has not played a single NFL down. I’d have to believe that he needs more than a handful of solid practices to prove he’s capable. How do we know he won’t be mistake prone?
I do kind of agree to go with Bell a lot this weekend in place of Butler. Get him as much experience as possible. I still think until further notice the staff would be more comfortable inserting Chambers in a real game in a pinch.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2009 3:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually, I suspect we are pretty much in agreement, though I would suggest it’s time to stop thinking about Bell as “a raw second rounder.” He was surely that a year ago, but he has just as surely made enormous progress since then — far more than anyone would have predicted. It’s not just me saying that, but also Matt, as well as Mark Gaughn and Chris Brown. I have always believed that people with extraordinary ability are capable of reaching their potential at extraordinary speed if given the opportunity. That MAY be what we are seeing with Bell. What he does during preseason games will be a much better test than what happens in practice. Let’s see how he fares over the next few weeks (with an assist from Ron, I hope) and then start debating with much better evidence whether he should be the starting RT, the 3rd (swing) OT, or the 4th behind Chambers.
“Raw seventh rounder” first of all.
Yes he has looked good in practice where they are going 90% speed and not trying to go after each other hard. I still reserve judegment until the preseason.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 7, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
“I might even consider Leo the 4th best CB on the team, maybe even 5th, as ridiculous as that sounds”
Hey K, just out of curiosity, would you rank the top 5 DB’s for me…Here’s mine…Looking to see who you have at 3 & 4…
McGee (obvious)
Youboty (When/if 100%)
McKelvin
Florence (Nickel only)
Corner
I love me some DB's...I might just be Dick Jauron's long lost twin!
Something similar…I’d go back and forth between McKelvin and Florence. By week 4, I’d definitely agree with your list!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Here's my thoughts on Bell.
He looks physically dominant. I have seen him overpower Mitchell and Kelsay on back to back plays. I don’t know why Kugler pulled him to the side but he was talking with him for a while. It wasn’t like he got pulled at stood there. Kugler wasn’t yelling but talking. I was with you on the Bell skepticism earlier when Butler went down and Chambers went in. After seeing him I don’t think he’s as far away as you or I thought. He could make a significant contribution this year.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
From what I have heard and seen.
Bell is just a twich slow to get his hands into the defender. He also hasn’t been leaning into his opponent enough while backpedling. In turn this doesn’t allow him to “push off” his opponent as well as he can. His strength allows these errors to be hidden, but without the correct form he will get beat.
He has the speed and the strength…Kulger is putting on the polish.
Since that practice I have only seen him block in TE drills.
Not in live game. They have him split out so much when he is with the first team. He is the inside guy in the bunch formation a lot. The two WRs run slant and fly and he does a short out underneath and gets the ball. He has been running a lot of patterns to the flat.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you K on Youboty.
If they don’t want him to start opposite of McGee then that’s fine – but he should at least be our starting Nickel. He’s a sure tackler and seems to be in good position. Sorry Florence/Corner/Lankster – but Youboty should win the job.
rec’d
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Aug 5, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Shouman
didn’t he have a great camp last year, but not nearly as much as we though during the season?
He has looked good this camp.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
the problem
with Shouman is that he is 220 pounds. I think TE’s often look good in practice when they are light and move better, but during game time, you need a bigger body TE. By the way, great reporting, MRW. Really appreciate it from here in SoCal. My concern is LB — I feel like we have a shortage of talent and depth there.
he was 220
I have to believe that with his added strength has come added weight
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2009 3:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, it was said that he’s been hitting the gym hard durring the offseason and has been working hard at improving his overall game. This leads me to believe that he’s probably closer to 230 then 220 right now. And even if his performance in camp has been a pleasant surprise, I’m afrai that labil might be right about the size/practise factor. I’m hoping that he’s not though.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2009 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions
You know who we haven’t heard making any plays since the first practice…..Donte Whitner….surprise, surprise!!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I haven't seen him near the ball since then...
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I really like hearing how Shawn Nelson is prospering. The kid has so much talent and it certainly doesn’t hurt that he runs a 4,5 40-yard-dash, which makes it inevitably difficult for LB’s, safeties and even quite a few CB’s to catch him. He’s going to be a player for us one day – if not this year, next year.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Aug 5, 2009 3:00 AM EDT reply actions
I am still trying to figure this one out. ie Nelson
When we traded our third round pick on Saturday I couldn’t wait for the fourth round. I went and played golf instead of watching the draft. Yes painful, missing the draft and my game of golf. Anyway, We all were talking about tagging a TE in the draft and with no third round pick I figured we missed out on a great opportunity to get what we were looking for. Two things here. When I made the turn from the nineth hole to the tenth, I stopped in the club house and watched the draft ticker at the bottom of the screen. I seen we got Shawn Nelson in the fourth round. It blew my mind. We targeted him behind Pettigrew in most cases. Then when the draft was over, possibly even the next day I looked back over the picks and it seemed like there was a half dozen TE’s taken before Nelson fell to us in the fourth round. So I have been trying to fiqure this one out. The kid drops to the fourth round and a handfull of other TE’s get picked before him. I love the kid he does play awesome but something is goofy here.
It looks like at 6’5" and 240, he was one of the taller, but one of the lighter TE prospects in the draft. Just a guess here, but maybe teams felt he couldn’t hold up to the pounding of the NFL? No clue because I never saw that Richard Quinn guy that the Broncos took on any of the top prospect boards, and they grabbed him in the second. So, to recap, thank you Broncos.
R. Quinn
can block anybody…he is a better blocker than Pettigrew, but didnt come from a top tier school. The dude was as strong as any college TE I have ever seen.
by NorCal BillsFan on Aug 6, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I am really happy youboty got first team reps and produced. I hope this helps give him a boost for the job at nickel over Florence. Youboty is ready to play, finally, in fact he was last year let’s let him. Bell is turning into great insurance for butler. I’m glad I’d rather not have chambers filling in. Nelson is everything we all hoped for this far, let’s hope it carries into reg season difference making. Mrw makes it seem like he was MVP on offense, that’s awesome. What if nelson is the one primed for a big year playing with Owens and Evans and not Reed? Nice to dream!
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
by poz on Aug 5, 2009 6:06 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It could be that they focused in on him yesterday...
but he had a bunch of balls thrown his way and made the catch on everyone that hit his hands. They have tried covering him with LBs and it hasn’t worked. Then they tried a CB and he outjumped them. It’s a little early to be singing his praises so darn much but the guy could really be special.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 5, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
The idea of having a top 5 te in terms of athleticism has been so foreign for this team that the prospect is just invigorating the fanbase itself
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
by poz on Aug 5, 2009 9:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ain’t that the truth poz
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2009 10:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I see we are both rumbling on our mobiles…right on k, can’t stop won’t stop rumbling
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
by poz on Aug 5, 2009 10:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah just joined the Blackberry world finally, its damn addicting
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2009 3:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
haha! thats why they call them crackberries!
Im a newbie as well
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
And to think that no company wanted to back the Blackberry design just because the idea came from an unknow 25 year old kid from Toronto. He had to start his own company in order to launch them. And now he’s one of the richest men in North America. Crackberries in deed.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2009 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions
And to think that we got this top 5 TE in the 4th round. i don’t know how he fell that far, but I sure am happy that we have him.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2009 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I am spending inordinate amounts of time on Rumblings
Now that training camp has started. I logged on yesterday morning and purused this site at the office during the day. After supper I got back on, and I went to bed around 2am making sure I’d checked training camp updates and discussion boards about the upcoming season. This morning at 8 Buffalo Rumblings was one of the first things I checked after breakfast. I am officially jacked and ready for some Bills football.
yup
From August till the end of the season rumblings evolves from a bad habit to a full blown addiction.
Guards Brad Butler and Brandon Rodd are decent. - Pete Prisco
Brandon Rodd!! Our best player.
by poz on Aug 5, 2009 10:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
- office time waster after Youtube!…. actually I think I’m now on here more then I ever was on Youtube.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2009 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to weird any body out but
don’t Trent’s legs look extremely skinny in this photo? I hope and pray he can take the NFL pounding this year.
haha, they are looking a little scrawny. But than again TRX, the workout program he used extensively in the off-season, is more about strengthening smaller muscles and tendons that are more commonly susceptible to injury, rather than building mass. Let’s hope this strategy works. Brees uses it, and he’s a little dude who can make it through the season. Edwards has yet to prove he can do the same, but I’m hopeful too.
Whitner
I have heard almost zero about him through camp updates so far (maybe one int I think, maybe, and I think it was on a tip or errant pass). In part, I assume that this is because he isn’t making plays (surprise, surprise). Has he been lining up at free safety? If so, why haven’t we heard about any plays being made on the ball? Didn’t he say that was gonna change this year with him at FS after crying about people criticizing him for not performing in the big play dept? Yes, I’m being facetious. I know its too early to criticize, but even Ko had a good camp last year at FS. Is there any reason that we should be expecting more from Donte this year?
I’m definitely not going to expect any more out of him. He played a lot of FS last year and didn’t do anything. Why should we expect it to change?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2009 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed, the faster Byrd can establish himself at FS the better.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2009 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
He has had one interception in team work and it was gorgeous. With Edwards penchant to dump it off underneath Whitner, who is lining up about 17 yards off the ball, just can’t make plays. It’s the position he is being put into as much as it’s him playing it.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Aug 7, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
glad to hear some units are doing well in practice. i feel great about our cb’s, and our rb’s. if only i could say the same about our offensive tackles… =(
The way I look a it, if our tackles can give Trent 3 seconds, then we’re fine. 3 seconds is all Trent needs to make the play IMO.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Aug 6, 2009 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions
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