I have never seen a larger over reaction to a pre season in my life
by poz on Sep 1, 2009 8:15 PM EDT
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PrintSome of you may have noticed I haven't posted here in a while. Truth be told, the Philly fan like attitude of a majority of the posters around here sort of turned me away for a bit. It has really gotten out of control. The worst of it has to be in regards to Trent Edwards from people rehashing JP Losman arguments, to calls for starting Fitzpatrick (did you watch a Bengals game last year?), raising questions for AJ Feeley (they were so confident in him they got Mike Vick), to talk of garbage QBs Tyler Thigpen and Tarvaris Jackson who between the two of them saw their teams upgrade from them three different times. Whatever happened to the reasonable and rationale commentary I've come to expect from everyone on this blog? It is the pre-season, which no matter how much you want to get excited about it because you can't wait for football still means absolutely nothing at the end of the day - if it did the league wouldn't be seriously looking into cutting it down to two games. The way some of you have been behaving has led me to gather that you've never actually followed the preseason until this year, if you have- you should know better. A few things to keep in mind before you go throwing this whole season in the garbage:
1.) In last season's preseason we saw records of:
New England 0-4 preseason
Baltimore Ravens 1-3 preseason
Indy Colts 1-4 preseason
Giants and Eagles 2-2 preseason
Seahawks 3-1preseason
2.) Last year Detroit was undefeated in the pre-season.
3.) I know Ron from NM does a great o-line study (and I really appreciate it Ron, its great stuff) but you can't let individual lineman performances cloud your judgement on the fact that as a unit they are all still rookies or at a new position. The fact that Marshawn, Freddie, and Rhodes can't run and Edwards can't pass does not mean that they are JP Losman or that we should go sign TJ Duckett and AJ Feeley. Again, its the pre-season, the o-line is supposed to learn and try things out.
4.) Terrell Owens played in one drive and we looked pretty darn good moving the ball.
5.) We are employing a new system with a coordinator looking to improve his unpredictability. Do you want to bet the offense is using these meaningless games to try out plays and calls that aren't what you'll see on game day? You are not seeing our product on the field. Thats reserved for practice.
6.) The starters aren't even going full strength nor should they as Mario Williams showed last night by pulling up on Favre when he could have ended his career in his own end zone. I play better at sports when I try 100% then I do playing 85%, MUCH better. On meaningful Sundays with TO on the field you can bet the playbook will be different and the effort will be greater.
6.) Stick to watching backups and analyzing position and roster battles, the starters aren't going to tell you a thing about how they will perform in season, every year its the same story. Some fan base gets all worked up about nothing and then when their team starts off pretty good they all pat themselves on the back and cheer for a guy they were ripping apart a few weeks earlier and vica versa in the case of teams like the Lions and Bengals - preseason darlings.
Relax and stop calling for Trent to be replaced. You just might get your wish and find AJ Feeley throwing 4 picks a game in week 6. For now, while all you jump off the bandwagon, I'll still be sitting there with my giant tub of popcorn ready for Monday Night Football.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Wait until the regular season? Preposterous. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Outstanding!
I couldn’t agree more. REC’d
Why do today, when it can wait til tomorrow; the games on!
i’ve posted similar posts about five times, but they keep being deleted because i’m so inflammatory in how i say it.
thank you, poz, for saying what needed to be said!
Side note: I really, really hope you weren’t one of the folks who got after me for my creepy Ben Linus avatar.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That was creepy, though. So is killascript’s, though.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 5, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a theory on why many are reacting the way they are...
Jauron was retained. Many thought he should, hoped he would be let go. In that he wasn’t, the microscope is zoomed in even tighter on things. Everything that goes wrong this season will be taken to heart more by many because they think a change should have been made and that this change would have prevented these problems (might have, but oh boy would there be different ones).
Long of the short – peoples’ patience seems to be non-existent because the mediocrity seems endless. I understand the strife on both sides, though I side with the thoughts posted here.
I’m pulling for Jauron to make this all work. There’s so much invested in the team now and failure would really set the franchise reeling.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Sep 1, 2009 9:01 PM EDT reply actions
That’s not theory, that’s fact. The redundant piling on is ridiculous. I completely understand the frustration, though.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 1, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right Afghan, Patience is currently at -2. I wanted Jauron gone so bad I could taste it. I was extremely disappointed that they did not make a change because frankly I doubt that he will change enough to make a difference. I love this team and I think Trent can be a good QB in this league, many know that I am a big supporter of his. Frankly, I should have tuned in for the second half of games instead because our backups are really good and were fun to watch. All I was hoping for was a bit of hope that Trent will take a step forward and start taking a bit more pokes downfield and I was hoping to see the Staff give some of the rookies a chance and they didn’t – Pre-season or not, it looked like the worse part of last year, only worse.
POZ, Good Post. It was like a cold towel in the face, you’re right I am getting worked up for meaningless games. I sincerely hope that you’re right and that the effort & playcalling will be different come the regular seaosn because two weeks of this and I might jump off a bridge somewhere!
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
In large part, I think what you’re seeing is a natural by-product of the blogosphere. The great thing about blogs is that they allow us to stay incredibly informed. The worst thing is that everyone has a 24/7/365 soapbox / venting platform.
"I wish we could convince our opponents to play their 2nd and 3rd stringers against ours for the whole game – when it counts." - TEMSON
Yay
This is my favorite post yet. Thank you!!!
Wearing my Bills jersey to the Eagles-Bills game in Philly probably wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. But then again, that's why they call me die-hard.
For now, while all you jump off the bandwagon, I’ll still be sitting there with my giant tub of popcorn ready for Monday Night Football.
I’ll be right next to ya buddy. I’ll even leave my pants on….for now.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
rec'd!
the biggest point i make to everyone in showing how irrelevant the preseason is detroit’s undefeated preseason last year followed by going 0-16 in the regular season.
on that note, cannot wait until the regular season starts!!!
LET'S GO BUFFALO!!!!!!
I realize that Pre-season doesn’t count, I couldn’t care less about the loss itself.
What concerns me is to see our starters look so bad, so out of sync, after all those practices and work… Why do the other QB’s look decent and ours looks so bad? he missed a few guys by over 5-10yards and they were only 12yards away, that’s more than a little inaccurate!
Let’s face it, our starters on offense either were throwing the game because it doesn’t count and were trying not to get hurt (I highly doubt this) or they really looked bad and out of sync, which doesn’t make that much sense since they’ve been practicing. If the coaches send them in with new plays or un-practiced plays, maybe but then again, what’s the purpose? Might as well sit your starters entirely and just play the rookies to get a look at them. Still, when you would look at big ben and then Trent, it was hard not to be envious. The same occured against the Packers, Rogers looked really good. Trent looked like a deer in headlights compared to them, regardless that the game counted or not.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
he missed a few guys by over 5-10yards and they were only 12yards away, that’s more than a little inaccurate!
And when has he ever done that in a regular season game? Never. SO nothing to get worried about.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 2, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. I think there is something to worry about, but I don’t think any of us really know how much to worry. The one thing we can’t do, however, is disregard the pre-season altogether, because these plays and mistakes aren’t coming from nowhere. There is a good chance that some of the same errors will show up again in the regular season.
Well poz, glad you are back, but
1 & 2. You assume the score of a preseason has anything to do with how well the starters played. It does not. I don’t care what the score was. I do care if the starters played well and if the offense scored. How many TDs have they scored so far? Is there any other team in the NFL that can claim the same?
3. I really don’t get your point. Like it or not, individual performances are important to the O-line. see the Peters wiff in the Jets game. They are running out of time to come together. We have to be able to run the ball. We have to have a balanced attack or the no huddle will not work and we are screwed.
4. It takes more than one drive to impress me. And, as much as I like moving the ball up and down the field, we need to score TDs. If T.O. gets injured do we just pack it in?
5. The Bills are not the only team trying out a new system. The Packers D looked pretty good. Sanchez has looked pretty good recently. Why can’t the Bills look pretty good?
6. If that is true for the Bills, it should be true for the other teams and should even out. Again, the Bills should not look so much worse than the team they are playing against.
6 redux – Again, not sure what you mean. If you are talking about the score, I have covered that. If you are talking about performances of individual players, I disagree. I have seen enough preseason football to know who looks like they are up to speed and who is not. That is not to say that players can’t get it together by the start of the season, but not everyone does. And, yes….sometimes we do overreact…like the INT caused by Reed. Watching that in a 4 inch window on my laptop with no way to see the replay, it look really bad. I was wrong on that one. But, It is a legitimate concern when players like Edwards are not performing well in the preseason. If you have read my posts, you know I have not given up on Edwards, but I am concerned. He is the key to how successful the Bills will be this season. His play will likely determine if we will be blowing this thing up AGAIN.
Enjoy your popcorn and I will enjoy mine too, but you will have to forgive me if I mention that one of the wheels on the bandwagon seems to be loose :-)
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
by Joe P. on Sep 1, 2009 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
im going to try and cram a response to you and K in here
and thanks Joe, its good to be back (though truth be told I never really intended on leaving…i mean come on, once a rumbler always a rumbler, its like crack for Bills fans).
While I can’t compare statistics of starters and bench players as the minutes played vary so greatly, overall we are ranked 23rd in points scored per game from touchdowns (had to use the average as we’ve played one game more than most teams) ahead of Miami, Carolina, Minnesota, Denver, Indianapolis, Washington, Houston, Cincinnati and Kansas City. Its not like those are terrible teams, should Indy, Miami, Minnesota and Carolina pack it in? Sure we only have two passing touchdowns but Pittsburgh doesn’t have any. Does that mean they are doomed? In terms of receiving yards averaged per game we are in the middle of the pack at 18th, so we can’t be ready for the horrendous season some seem to think if preseason is used as a measurement. And considering how bad our offense appears to be based on all of the commentary, our defense is still ranked 6th in avg yards allowed per game this preseason. Again, I think preseason means nothing but if you want to go by performance and not wins, there still isn’t as much panic needed as we have seen.
In regards to the individual oline point, that was meant to be in defense of Trent Edwards. I think that while sure on an individual basis we may be looking pretty good, as a unit we are obviously a more porous o-line than last year. The blame for most of the rushing and passing issues should fall on the o-line. I also don’t think that implies it will magically turn on but rather that Trent’s struggles are happening as he learns his timing and read progressions as he figures out the amount of protection he can expect from our unit. Obviously its not much and I’d rather he be looking like a fool flinging passes errantly and darting em off quickly (which some are using to say he is damaged and skittish) now than in the season. Hes just figuring out what he can get away with with this new o-line. Hopefully he gets it but this is what the preseason is for. I’m sure once he gets to the big games he will be waiting for plays to unfold or calling different and faster developing plays. Some times that may result in a pick or fumble, sometimes it will result in a shot deep for 6 but we all knew what we were getting into when we blew up the o-line in the first place.
As for the others looking good, I don’t know what your looking at but I’m staring at a Packer defense thats given up the 29th most yards this pre-season and from what I’ve seen Sanchez looks plain bad. His first two throws against the Ravens should have been pick 6, one was, and his decision making has looked poor. He’s had moments sure but nothing I’d call pretty good.
When people aren’t going all out you can’t measure talent. If my buddy and I are messing around playing one on one a bystander might think he’s better than me, he drains a couple of threes from lax d and i give away a few possession trying some crossovers I normally wouldn’t or attacking him down low even though he is taller than me to see what I can get away with. If we play one on one though he might not score a bucket when I go to using the moves I’m comfortable with and are my go-to and playing within myself as opposed to trying things out. It is impossible to know who is playing better and who is trying what when people aren’t going 100%, hence why pre season means so little. And K, I wouldn’t say they are lollygagging, but their minds subconsciously and consciously know the difference between real and exhibition and their bodies naturally act accordingly even if they think they are giving it their all: will power, awareness and mental tenacity all don’t factor in here. I promise no matter how much Ray Lewis gives 100% in preseason its not the same as his 100% in week 1.
I’m not saying you guys are nuts for questioning what your seeing, I’m just saying its crazy to hit the panic button pre-season. It simply doesn’t mean that much. Many great preseason performances have amounted to nothing and many bad ones have been no cause for alarm, lets wait till after Monday night when we can measure ourselves against the best team in the league to pass such harsh judgment on the season.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 2, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Come on poz, most of those passing statistics are from the backups. You can’t look at our passing numbers, compare them to the Colts, Bengals, Texans, whoever and say they aren’t that bad. Our starters have been putrid out there and the only reason we aren’t at the bottom in the statistics is because the backups put up some numbers, and those don’t mean a thing. You should be looking at the stats from the starting units.
Take a look at the article by Nick Mendola that MRW posted. Edwards has thrown for the third least yards of any starter, with only Eli Manning and Shaun Hill behind him, both of whom have played in just 3 games, not 4. Trent’s throwing for 47 ypg. and is one of five starters without a TD. His numbers and the passing unit’s numbers have been horrid. Luckily the only place to go is up.
I’d take Sanchez’s bad at this point. At least he’s gotten his team into the endzone. He’s a rookie QB, you can’t expect his decision making to be top notch. It’s been no worse than Trent’s has been, and that’s being kind to Trent. And again, you can’t look at a team’s entire stats and make conclusions about the preseason. You mention the Packers, who gave up 563 yards to the Cardinals this past week. 360 of it came from Leinart in the 2nd half. They were up 38-10 at the half behind their starters. That’s what matters. Even the Bills got 249 yards out of Fitz/Hamdan once the starters departed against the Pack. You can’t use those to determine how prepared a team is for the season.
You mention you don’t know who is going 100% and who isn’t. Again, how do you know how many players and which aren’t going 100%?? I think it’s crazy if a player doesn’t go 100% out there in the preseason, simply because others around him very likely are going 100%. Sure, everyone is going to protect themselves, maybe step out of bound a yard early or avoid knocking a guy out, but those types of things aren’t why this team has looked so bad this preseason. It’s execution, not effort.
Personally, I think it’s crazy to dismiss what we’ve seen. Obviously, nothing counts and the team could very well surprise when the season begins, but what we’ve seen should worry all of us. The team has not looked ready or prepared to handle the Pats when the season begins. There’s no doubt about that. However, they very well could find their groove when the game comes. We don’t know, but signs point to us not being ready.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do passing yards a game really matter when he played a drive in the first game? He does rank 90-something in YPA at 5.0.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 2, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
a few things
1.) The fact that our backups have played well should be an indication that our schemes on both sides of the ball are working or can work. Thats a plus. Our starters have played very little together and its encouraging that our scheme puts players in a position to win.
2.) We have played some of the best defenses this pre-season, Trent was playing the Steelers! Without our best offensive player and probably our best player in general.
3.) On this best player note, I think we are really underestimating how important TO is to our offense. For the last two off-seasons we have been rating a great WR at the top of our teams needs list for a reason. TO is the most important key to our offense. He changes everything, Trent looked great when he was in and bad when he was out. One player can make a big difference. Take Calvin Johnson off the Lions offense, take Larry Fitzgerald off the Cardinals, look at how putrid the Giants offense got at the end of last year without Plaxico. Why can’t we be realistic the other way around and point out the facts in a positive regard: This pre-season we played some of the best defenses in the league, without our best and most important offensive cog. The Giants will tell you how important it was to lose Plax.
Either way, again, it is pre-season…..it means very, very little…
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 2, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
TO is on the team, and when he was on the field Trent threw 3 passes for 34 yards (16, 11, 7) before attempting another long pass that eventually got picked. I will admit it’s scary to think about what the team would be like without TO for the whole season but I can’t imagine the Patriots would be too thrilled about losing Moss either. Maybe we have less to accommodate for losing a HOFer so we wouldn’t pull off 11 wins without him like the Pats did without Brady – but that doesn’t change the fact that we do have him and as of now he will be playing in the games that count. THEREFORE, it isn’t unreasonable to be optimistic in my opinion. Maybe with TO back we’ll see more shots downfield like we heard about so much in practice. Maybe not. We won’t know until the 14th.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
We see things the same way Joe
We could go 0-4 in the pre-season and I wouldn’t care, just show me that you’ve grown since last season. Especially since we supposedly do not game plan and only run vanilla stuff, then the execution should be that much more crisp.
To sit and watch our starters was painful to say the least. I remain convinced that they deliberately were trying to look sloppy to throw teams off, it’s the only logical explanation cause if they weren’t and they were actually doing their best, then may god help us all!
POZ, it’s not about the Stats or the Wins, it’s about coming out and looking sharp. Actually come to think of it, if you look at the series or two that TO was in, Trent looked decisive and very sharp. Then the next games, it was like a completely different guy. I am certain that they were doing it on purpose and frankly I don’t agree with that.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
You really believe that Buffalo intentionally played bad? Do you believe that like the way parents believe their kid would never try drugs or alcohol or like the way people believe facts, like the sky being blue?
I don’t understand the logic of playing poorly on purpose? What does Buffalo gain from that? How are other teams thrown off? It’s the first game of the season and it’s against the Patriots, does anyone really believe that Belichick’s boys won’t be 100% ready to go because Buffalo’s bad preseason has them too relaxed? And if Buffalo really wanted to throw off the Pats, wouldn’t they do it scheme wise? If Trent spent the whole preseason in the shotgun with four wide, or with three tight ends on the field, pounding the ball up the middle and using play action on every pass play as a conspiracy type theory to throw off the opponent, but playing bad? How does that hurt anybody, but Buffalo?
Kaiser, please reread my paragraph. I remain convinced only because if that was not the case I would loose all hope. I really cannot even begin to imagine that Trent would have regressed to that point. You need to understand that I drive down from Montreal for 3-4 regular season games per year and I drop 400-500$ for my weekends each time. Last year two of those games resulted in a total of 3pts scored (49ers & NE). Brian gets a little upset when I bitch about the crappy coaching staff but I have good reason to do so, I invest a lot of money & effort in supporting this team and believe me that when I see the absolute putrid that has been displayed by our offensive starters this pre-season, I feel like giving up my season tickets.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Joe P.....
were on the same page. Anyone who thinks are offense is playing possum is just kidding themselves. Our D is creating alot of turnovers, but I find it hard to believe that our D is going to win us many games, if any. We need to score 24+ per game to have a shot at the playoffs. I do not care what our record is in preseason, but you have to call a spade a spade. Our off put up 3 POINTS and barley got the ball over mid field.
People get ridiculed for being realists on this site. The only thing the Bills organization has accomplished thus far is filling Ralphs pockets. Unfortunately, we do not get a cut. Instead we continue to support this organization for putting out a mediocre product for the past 10 years.
I don’t know of a single instance where anyone has ever ridiculed someone for “being a realist”. If anything, it seems like the people holding out hope for the season are simply constantly defending their position by saying “it’s only preseason” – but that certainly isn’t ridicule.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
1/2) Nobody cares about who wins these games. I don’t think I’ve seen too many, if any, fans angry we’ve lost some games.
3) The OL is also supposed to look like 5 NFL players. They’ve struggled mightily to this point. To expect them to all of a sudden be a cohesive unit come Sept. 14th is a little preposterous right now. We all want them to be great, but right now the unit should be worrisome to us all.
4) He caught a few passes and we didn’t score. I don’t really see the point in this comment. With or without TO, we need to put points on the board. So far without him, we weren’t even close. We’d all like to believe TO is the missing piece, but it’s going to take more than him to get it done. Again, we just have to hope it works out.
5) Are we really running a new system? We’re just not huddling, it’s the same playbook. We’ve seen the same crappy plays that don’t work being called over and over. I’m extremely worried that our gameplans will be the same as last season where we won’t have enough to punch the ball into the endzone. Trent looks afraid to throw it downfield, which we were supposed to do more of this year. And as Joe said above me, other teams are implementing new systems and aren’t having nearly as much trouble. The O really needs to get it together if we want to have any success against the Pats.
6) Do you know that all the starters aren’t going 100%? And if they aren’t going 100%, they are just asking for injuries. There are definitely opponents going 100%, if we have guys lollygagging it out there, then they are opening themselves up to injury. I don’t buy this at all. These guys have looked frustrated out there and it’s because they are doing everything they can, with no success.
The reason so many are upset is because the problems we’ve seen this preseason are the exact same problems and concerns we’ve had for the past however many years. It’d be wonderful to just ignore what we’ve seen this preseason and start fresh in a few weeks, but it’s not that simple. We should be extremely concerned about what we’ve seen. Unfortunately, there’s nothing we can do but hope they can miraculously and unexpectedly turn everything around.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
What fun is it to be a fan if you focus solely on negativity?
Sure it would have been nice if Trent looked like Brady so far. He hasn’t and probably isn’t going to. Our best player hasn’t been on the field. That will probably change things quite a bit. I love this site for all of its up to date Bills news and in depth articles but this “let kill ourselves” “we are the worst team ever” mentality on the fan posts is getting old.
Founding member of the Dick Jauron Fan Club.
you say negativity – I say realism. realistically they’ve looked bad – you cannot say they have looked other wise.
It is what it is – you can say that the fans are the ones being negative – but they’ve given us plenty to be negative about. If it looks like a pile of crap and smells like a pile of crap then it’s probably a pile of crap
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Sep 2, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
First, I appreciate you really focusing in on my posts every time you post the same comment. Thanks!
Second, you’re a bit misguided when you add those ridiculous fake quotes. Nobody is saying anything remotely close to those. We talk about where improvements need to be made on areas that have stunk. I apologize if you don’t want to read that.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
AGREE
I have to agree with k the same crappola play book the no huddling is yust lets see who can get to the line faster maybe if we get there faster we can GET THEM OF SIDE SO WE CAN GAIN 5 FREAKING YARDS NO EXCUSES EVEN IF IT IS THE FIRST OR SECON UNIT SAME OLD SONG CAN HANDLE THE PRESSURE UP FRONT
Excuses, excuses
we look bad and there is no way around it. You can think all you want that the bills will magically turn it around or turn it up a notch, but it has been sloppy play worse than mediocre and preseason or not, you can see quite plainly who the winners and losers are in this league. Right now we look like losers…I can ONLY hope they turn it around, otherwise, it will be a very long year, and an uncomfortably short Monday night on the 14th
The Bills CAN win any game
Well said, sir...
THANK YOU POZ!
I’ve had about enough with the pre-season over reactions myself…I’m really surprised no one has suggested that we go get Chan Gailey yet with al this over reaction…
I love me some DB's...I might just be Dick Jauron's long lost twin!
Humbly, I agree...
Thanx for the wake up call Pos. I realized a couple days after the Steelers game how ridiculous it was for me and a couple others to get so wound up over a couple PS games. Let’s wait until game 3 or 4 and see where they are. And then if they STILL look this bad….It is a little frustrating & worrisome to see them look this bad in what should be a rehearsal for the regular season, but for now I will reserve my judgement.
If Lee Evans is concerned....
then I am concerned. Even Lee said he was concerned and went to the coaches on Monday to find out what was going on with the offense. So why SHOULDN’T we be concerned if Lee is concerned? I don’t think we are overreacting at all. Our #1 offense has put up 3 points in 4 games. And our offense has historically been a problem. So there is a HUGE cause for concern and I don’t believe it is overreaction at all.
The reason I never bothered with a post along these lines is because of the comments so far. Did you really think that you were going to argue people into realizing that pre-season games are atrocious real-season predictors. I mean I applaud the effort but no amount of logic is going to change some people’s opinions. Which is fine. They’re entitled to think that the way the offense is playing now is the way they will play later. I’m entitled to think that so much can change week to week that it isn’t even worth considering preseason. I agree with a lot of the stuff you’ve said here, I’m just not surprised that the people who have traditionally been (pessimistic or realistic – depends on what side you’re on) are sticking to their guns. If a simple post reiterating points that have already been made elsewhere were enough to change their opinions they probably wouldn’t have such strong opinions to begin with.
That being said, I completely understand your frustration. Sometimes I’m afraid to read the comments because I see things like “no hope”, “the FACT is the Bills are bad”, and “inevitable train wreck” (and no K, those aren’t fake quotes but they aren’t from you either) – I mean maybe I’m just arguing semantics but nothing is inevitable, there are no facts in value judgements, and if there really is no hope why even watch the games? It sucks reading that kind of stuff – I want to go to the MNF game (just got tickets) excited – not thinking ‘I hope this game goes quickly, we have no chance of winning.’
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
Like usual, the answer is somewhere in the middle. We should make Billskk’s fanpost title the theme of our preseason. Here’s some thoughts that havn’t really been touched on yet:
Sure, Buffalo’s first team offense only has three points in four games, but they’ve really only played about a games worth, maybe a little less, of time. So, we could say that Buffalo has had one awful game’s worth of bad offense and it’s not like a team can’t have one bad game on O or D and still have a good unit over the rest of the season. Maybe the best way to make this argument isn’t to point out how bad the Bills were at times last year, but the D had some great games and had some stinkers against AZ and the one Miami game. Trent looked miserable at times last year too.
Half of the first team’s preseason has been played against the best defense in the league. Ron seems to think that the OL’s performance was encouraging and Pittsburgh has one the couple best front 7s in the league. Last year, Pittsburgh had 5 halves where they shut out an opponent and had a remarkable 12 halves of play where they allowed 3 points or less. It’s a ridiculously good defense that allowed under 14 points per game and a sobering 5.4 yards per pass attempt last year. It didn’t bother me that Trent struggled, anybody who thought that Trent was suddenly going to become a great QB, especially without TO in the lineup was fooling themself. I’m looking for progress from Trent in the form of a couple less checkdowns per game, a few more TDs than last year and to avoid some of the really costly turnovers. I still think that is very realistic.
Chicago has a pretty good defense too and Trent looked OK. Thier 6.6 yards per pass attempt allowed last year was 8th best, one tenth of a yard behind Carolina and go figure, the Green Bay Packers.
I know it isn’t the best list, but Jason Campbell, Jake Delhomme, Matt Cassel and Carson Palmer all had bad preseasons last year. Remember how bad Cassel was? Matt Ryan threw a couple TDs, but only averaged 5 yards per attempt and Joe Flacco only threw for 4.2 yards per pass attempt. Again, this isn’t the most encouraging stuff out there, but Shaun Hill threw 4 picks and averaged 5.4 yards per attempt in the 2007 preseason and in 2006, Matt Hasselbeck struggled and even Drew Brees only averaged 6.4 yards per attempt, threw two picks and didn’t throw a TD and that was in 62 pass attempts.
There is definitely a correlation between playing poorly in preseason and playing poorly in the regular season, but remember that this is a really small sample size and as an indicator is far from a sure thing.
Well, that’s my attempt at optimism, altough I know it isn’t the most optimistic thing out there. The memory of the Packers game is still too fresh in my memory to be anything other than worried about MNF, but things aren’t quite as bad as they seem. And I know that “it’s just preseason” isn’t a good argument for a variety of reasons, but it really is only preseason.
Nice post kaisertown
A couple of things your probably already thought of:
Yes, everyone can have a bad night, but I don’t think you can use that argument by combining all of the 1st team’s time into one game. That is not having one bad game on one night. It is have a total of one bad game, but over the course of 3 weeks. That is more troubling, IMO.
Cassel had never played a down as a starter. Ryan and Flacco were rookies. Edwards should look better than them.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
Another thing to consider was Edwards’ ability to be his best in the 4th quarter last year. Although the 1st team offense has had approximately a games worth of playing time, it has been spread out over multiple weeks, as you say. If last year taught us anything about Trent, it was that he was usually a poor starter during games – and sometimes horrible – but he also usually finished strong (if not strong enough). His preseason play would seem to lend much credence to last year’s play and we have to assume that when the pressure is on in the 4th quarter that (at least sometimes) he will produce.
Yeah, some of the arguments are a little shaky. Your right that you can’t lump one bad performance together with a string of bad games. I was trying to point out that the sample size has been small, so it’s very possible that it’s a bit of an anomally. And Trent was alright against Tennessee and Chicago, so we’re really only looking at the other two games. He had 24 pass attempts in those two games, so the sample could be heavily skewed by one big play, say to TO for example.
Granted, a lot of the problem with Trent is the way he has looked and the numbers are more of a reflection of how bad he has been than anything else. Roethlisberger and Rodgers looking terrific sure doesn’t help Bills fans, but even Big Ben went through a three game stretch last year where he threw 87 passes, one of which was a TD and 8 were INTs and he averaged under 6 yards per attempt.
Your right about Ryan and Flacco too. I remembered them being good early in the season, so I thought they might have flipped the switch once the season started, but they both struggled for a few games early in the year. And I get why Cassel is different, but I still think it’s worth noting that his preseason performance last year against 2nd and 3rd stringers was awful. Patriot fans wanted him cut and he had a terrific season. Very different situation, but I think Trent can have a somewhat similiar turnaround.
It's going to be a long 12 days.
I definately am taking the 14th off from work. This site is the greatest thing since Jim Kelly left the Generals. If we didn’t have the difference of opinion in matters such as these then how would we best resolve the conflict. Especially when we have no control over the conflict. Here is a little TITWISI for you. “This is the way I see it”. We still have alot of schemes up our sleeve. The cat has not been let out of the bag. This creates much hope. We have not looked good in many of the areas of concern going into the preseason. We are not the only ones that agree with this. The fact that there is a little hope for this team is what being a Bills Fan is all about. There is no right or wrong here, but there is still hope. I love it, thats why I return here everyday. Once again, starting out 4-4 and finishing 6-2 would be a very good thing. It’s going to be a long 12 days and a very interesting season.
The best part of this poor preseason is that its coming to a close and the only place to go is up. Our O can’t possibly be this bad right? They’ve got their work cut out but the talent is there.
I think Jackson will have a very nice opener. If the OL continues improving, he should be able to run it on the Pats front 7. They are very susceptible there IMO. It could open up the play action we’ve been longing for.
Maybe something good will come out of these terrible performances. Edwards, Jauron, Schonert and others might finally feel the pressure and step up to the plate. They say the desperate man is a dangerous man. Right now, these guys should be desperate to succeed and pulling out all the stops. With jobs on the line, we might actually be surprised at how they respond.
/optimism!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 1:39 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Dude, you don’t have to /optimism. Redact it!
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 2, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
If felt necessary so no one would think it was sarcasm. Although now it looks like sarcasm with that!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 3:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is it really that easy to figure out someone’s password? Brian, you should look into the security on this site – someone has clearly hijacked K’s account.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
Yeah, who did that? :)
I felt like Will Ferrell after his debate scene in Old School. Ha
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 3:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hah, did you black out and everything?
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
Yes indeed
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 3:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Poz's sweet note turned sour...
by K & Joe’s unwavering commitment to making sure that all Bills fans remain realistic and suicidal…thanks guys!
By remaining realistic,
we are trying to prepare you so you are not taken by surprise and become overly distraught. WE ARE TRYING TO SAVE LIVES :-)
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
If someone is suicidal after reading my words, then I blame Joe
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 2, 2009 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In the spirit of passing the buck,
I blame Brian! After all, it is his fault for giving lunatics like me a forum :-)
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
1.) Agreed, pre-season record means squat.
2.) Same as number 1.
3.) We should be concerned over our OL play. The OL is the most important unit on the team. If they aren’t playing well, then concern is justified.
4.) Agreed, but again, it’s pre-season.
5.) I disagree. The system is exactly the same we used last year, with one exception- we aren’t huddling.
6.) Not going 100%? This can’t be used as part of any argument because it can’t be proved.
The second 6.) Agreed on Edwards. I reserve my judgment for after the season. There’s no one available (except by trade) that’s better than Edwards.
Not really sure where you were going with the advice on who to watch. We can certainly glean some of the capabilities of the new OL from pre-season play.
my favorite response on the whole thread!
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
preseason counts for something
the reason people are so turned off is because edwards looked like this at the end of last season and it seemed like he picked up right where we left off.
blame the o-line all you want. of course they have played a big part in the bills struggles thus far, but edwards has had good enough protection to get the ball out.
once again it’s seemed like no one is open…
T.O. should help with that, and seemed to help a lot against the Titans, but as someone else stated, what happens when he isn’t on the field?
there’s reason for concern. because this is nothing new to any of us.
Really, Poz?
Then you haven’t been a Bills fan as long as many of us.
Given the fact we have the same coaching staff in place, the preseason is cause for alarm. Very few signs that anything has changed.
If we are competitive vs. New England (I didn’t say we have to win), I will apologize to you.
The Dick Jauron version of the K-Gun...the Squirt Gun.
Then you haven’t been a Bills fan as long as many of us.
Interesting way to start your response Chipshot, guess you caught me….
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 4, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
you are fooling yourself POZ
This team has had trouble scoring TD’s sense Kelly left. Other than a 5 game stint with Bledsoe, the offense has been pathetic. We go through a preseason showing the same weakness again. I have been a Bills fan for 31 years. We will be a sub 500 team again this year. We dont get it. You either have an O-Line or you stink. We will stink. Going back to 1978, we were good when we blocked (80-81) and the late 80’s and 90’s. We have ignored the o-line. Just because one player busts (Williams) does not mean 7th round players and FA cast offs will allow you to win. I am dissappoiinted in Ralph for letting this happen.
this i will accept
You either have an O-Line or you stink
but is that really Edwards fault? I tend to try and remain optimistic, but if there is any point to be made its that our o-line is in trouble. If that’s the case, I don’t see how we can sit here in judgment of Trent.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 4, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
We dont get it. You either have an O-Line or you stink.
The problem is not the O-Line IMO
Our new center is doing extremely well as are both our new rookies. I think Bell will take over at LT by week 2 and will quickly settle in as a competent starter. The problem is the system/coaching
I am disappointed in Ralph for letting this happen.
I could not agree with you more on this one. Jauron/Fewel & Schonert should have gotten the axe last year. Now the outlook for 2009 seem gloomy at best. Trent Edwards has looked horrible and I personally think that it’s the system, the type of routes, the situational choice of plays, etc. Simply put – our coaching staff really have no clue. I believe that Trent showed some flashes last year but unfortunately under Schonert he is getting scrapped!
Brian posted some of the answers given by Chris brown on a few key questions that says it all… (a) Both Schouman & Reed are unseat able starters because they have developed a chemistry with Trent – A chemistry for what? scoring a field goal per game? Message to Jauron, you are the boss my friend and you will be judged for the ultimate results of the team. If you continue to do the same crap over and over and continue to expect a different result, then maybe you should check yourself in to an asylum, because that’s the definition of insanity.
Last night was another example that it’s the coaching/system that is crappy because our backups on offense should have been able to score some points on Detroits 2nd & third stringers! And for those who prefer to blame it on our two backup QBs, I’ll admit that they are not that sharp but who’s fault is that? Many experienced backups were available in the off season and we’re stuck with Fitz & Hamdan, who’s fault is that?
Ralph, you should have fired that sorry ass coaching staff last year, we could have salvaged this season. Now we must rely on unjustified, unrealistic optimism from fans like POZ (I really do appreciate the positive spin you are trying to give on this otherwise bleak looking season ahead of us!)
Summary note to Ralph: You have the best fan base in Football, we’ve supported you & your team through thick & thin but now we’re stretched to the absolute limit and we’re about to break. For god sake, if this season turns out as bad as it looks right now, please do not hesitate to pull the plug on this coaching staff/back-office. There is a brilliant football mind available that I am certain you can convince to come in and fix this mess. Bill Cower is the man for the job. Ask the Rooneys, he is a dedicated, hard working guy that understands football. He can turn this thing around & give us hope.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Last night was another example that it’s the coaching/system that is crappy because our backups on offense should have been able to score some points on Detroits 2nd & third stringers!
They didn’t gameplan for the Lions. When the guys don’t score it’s on them just as much as the coaches if not more.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 4, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Who is calling the plays?
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
The coaches… but they aren’t dropping passes and fumbling the ball.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 4, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
With all the talented veteran QBs that were available in the off season, who decided to bring in Fitz? Why is our third guy Hamdan? Why are we so affraid to put pressure on Trent? Are these player issues?
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Why are we so affraid to put pressure on Trent?
You’re not seriously saying there’s no pressure on Trent, are you?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you seriously implying that Fitz or Hamdan are REAL competition? Do you think that either of those two are pressuring Trent for the starting job? My point is that we had a chance to bring in a real veteran QB that would have put pressure on Trent and yes, if Trent would struggle there would be calls to get the veteran in. At least we’d have options now we are stuck with Larry, his brother Daryl and his other brother Daryl !!
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
And please don’t mis-interpret my comments because I’ve been a Trent Edwards supporter for a while now. I just feel that we should have brought in some real veteran backup leadership, someone that could actually win us games if Trent goes down or fails miserably. A veteran that can actually give Trent advice because he’s been there and done it. And I don’t feel we have that with Fitz or Hamdan.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
My bad. I just misinterpreted the word “pressure” – you were referring to pressure for his starting role. I get that point, though I don’t necessarily agree with it.
I thought you just meant that there was no pressure on Edwards to perform. So, now that you know how I interpreted it, you might understand why I asked the question the way I did. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
They brought in Fitz because he’s smart and generally makes the right decisions. There really wasn’t a glut of free agent talent. Joey Harrington, Byron Leftwich, Brett Favre… who would be such a significant upgrade over Fitz?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 4, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
and generally makes the right decisions.
Uhhh, I guess you didn’t see much of Fitzy last year!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Nope. I’ve seen him a lot in camp and the preseason and I generally think he makes the right decisions.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 5, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree with you keysh. This coaching staff has proven clueless and incapable of consistent success during their time here and it’s hard to imagine them changing that anytime soon. No matter how much talent we may have, I just can’t see it coming together behind a lame duck staff. Hopefully we can win in spite of the coaching staff….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I feel a bit smarter now..
I hated Schonert and I blamed his play calling and stoburness for a lot of our woes. I wanted him & Jauron gone last season. Now 1 week before pre-season, we have another no name guy calling the plays – great! I always liked Van pelt and I sincerely wish him well but I won’t be very surprised if we don’t well this season.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
why is the oline getting off the hook keysh?
Have Marshawn, Fred, Rhodes and Edwards suddenly all regressed at the same time and it coincidentally has nothing to do with a rookie and mish mashed (i dont know what that means) o-line?
I think the o-line deserves a lot of the blame.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
Every NFL team struggles to run the ball in the pre-season. It’s science.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Poz, the breakdown from Ron in the Steelers game revealed what I thought I saw on the field, which is an ever improving middle (Wood, Hang & Levitre). I trust that Butler will find a way to get it done as well, he’s a smart aggressive guy. I am a little concerned with Walker but I believe that Bell will be the starter by week 2-3 and I am willing to live with the ups & downs of his learning curve. I don’t blame the line as much as I blame the brilliant coaching staff that decided to overhaul the whole thing in one season. Honestly they’ve progressed enough for me to think that 1/4 into the season we’ll have a decent line.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
I don’t blame the line as much as I blame the brilliant coaching staff that decided to overhaul the whole thing in one season
I’ll buy into that. Not only just in one season but in one make or break season no less.
Maybe with Schonert gone we’ll run on 2 and goal from the 1 or run the ball with the lead instead of putting it in the hands of JP Losman on a roll out….
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 4, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't buy all of it. If we could have gotten a decent LT, I would feel much better
Granted it took them way to long to “get it right”. But they do deserve credit for bringing in Wood, Levitre, and maybe Hang. Also, Bell is looking to be another great project. Their big mistake was moving Walker to LT…..bad move…but given the accelerated development of Bell, maybe they hoped it would be a short term solution all along.
"When troops flee, are insubordinate, collapse, or are routed in battle, it is the fault of the general." – Sun Tzu. Yes Jauron, I am talking to you.
What about McIntosh?
Just released by the Chiefs. An 11 year vet with 111 starts, surely he’s an upgrade over Walker. Keep McIntosh in until Bell is ready for prime time.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
I don't know much about him, but I would be for anyone who is an upgrade at LT
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
Damion McIntosh
6’4" 320lbs
ESPN Insider Comment: McIntosh anchors the right side of the Chiefs’ line and gives the team a powerful drive blocker who excels in short-yardage situations. He is more of a finesse blocker who walls opponents off and simply gets in the way. He reacts quickly to stunts and twists. He is a solid technician who understands angles and how to position himself.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Here's what Arrowhead Pride is saying...
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/9/4/1016083/chiefs-release-eight-players#20723446
Addition by subtraction. They wanted him gone. Gave up too many sacks.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 5, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not sure keysh67
Sounds like another RT who isn’t good enough to be a LT. Still, I can’t blame you for trying. I am sure this is a bad idea, but
is there any way Levitre is quick enough to play LT? Probably not….we just don’t have a good LT option. Bell seems
to be our best hope.
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
Tech problem
Is anyone else having a problem with the comments box? I have to hit return or my comments disappear on the right side of the box. They do appear after I hit post, but I can see the last 3 – 4 words I type until then.
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
Yes. It’s not just you. You can type as far right as you like, and even if you can’t see it, it definitely shows up. For example, I could not see “for example” when I was typing this comment, but there it is.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 5, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Levitre’s arms are too short (32 1/2") to be able to play the Tackle position effectively
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
You would think that fans of the team who embraced Flutie the way Bills fans did would be the last ones to say a guy couldn’t do something based on his size. I’m not saying that you are wrong, just that I would rather see him do it before we said that he couldn’t just based on the length of his arms.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Of all the Rumblers I would have figured You & Ron would support me on this one.
A tackle with long arms has an automatic obvious advantage over the defender with shorter arms.
Not saying that he couldn’t pull it off but over time he can be way more productive at the guard position IMO
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Oh I agree with you, just saying that given Buffalo’s love for Flutie and his short comings, I would think that most Bills fans would look past things like that.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I see it both ways
On one hand, YES people are overreacting. When I hear some people wanting Tavaris Jackson , AJ Feely or Tyler Thigpen over Edwards, it blows my mind.
But I also think people are just frustrated and want to vent. There is nothing wrong with saying terrible performances were terrible. The problem is saying the Bills season is over after the preseason and suggesting ludicrous changes that would send the franchise back into the stone age.
I totally understand what those people are saying though, because there is pain and desperation in alot of these posts and I sort of feel it too. In the back of everyone’s is worried about the future of the franchise. We want to be proud again. We want to see an explosive offense and we want revenge on the Patriots and we want to see the postseason. But what people have forgotten is THAT CAN STILL HAPPEN. And it can still happen IF we lose to New England monday night.
When I hear some people wanting Tavaris Jackson , AJ Feely or Tyler Thigpen over Edwards, it blows my mind.
Have people said that? I thought people wanted some of those guys over Fitz, which makes sense….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
you dont think I made those up K do you?
those calls have been all over the boards
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
There is nothing wrong with saying terrible performances were terrible. The problem is saying the Bills season is over after the preseason and suggesting ludicrous changes that would send the franchise back into the stone age.
That was the whole point of writing this post. I have no problem with people being upset, but calling for Edwards to be replaced by garbage and saying the season is over is too much.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
As far as I can tell Fitz only had one really bad game – against the best defense in the league. Against the Lions (who went 4-0 last year due in part to their backups) and the HOF game where Fitz was still learning the playbook, he didn’t look great but still completed a few passes and got us into good positions. And in GB he kind of dominated. I don’t think he’s looked all that bad overall. He has a few touchdowns, has sustained some longer drives, and gives us the option of continuing to use our new offensive strategy (the no-huddle) even without Trent in there. I don’t see why people are so up in arms about Fitz.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
i know
this is my first time here since the news…it certainly changes everything. You think Turk believes its just preseason haha
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 4, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The "there's something seriously wrong here" vs "it's just preseason" argument
has never been so definitively settled before, I’d imagine!
by StroudFanClub on Sep 4, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
or at least we know where Ralph Wilson stands in the debate!
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 4, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the most incredible thing i’ve read in weeks on this site. I was starting to think I was the only person who still believed that the preseason was meaningless, and pointless. I’ve been telling every Bills fan friend I know that I refuse to get excited or dejected from anything that happens in the preseason ever since I saw JP Losman look like a pro-bowler in the preseason a couple years ago. THE PRESEASON MEANS NOTHING!! Even if you look at how the starters play against the other teams starters, it means nothing. Example: the 08 Bills outplayed the Super Bowl Champion Steelers to a score of 21-7 last preseason. Clearly not a look a proper indication of how each team would perform in the regular season…
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
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