Van Pelt's charge: run plays Bills excel at
by Brian Galliford on Sep 6, 2009 12:00 PM EDT
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintUpon his firing Friday from his post as the offensive coordinator of the Buffalo Bills, Turk Schonert cited philosophical differences between he and head coach Dick Jauron as the chief reason for the decision. He also pointedly referred to the offense that Jauron envisions as a "Pop Warner offense," with fewer formations and plays. Said Schonert to WIVB's John Murphy: "[Jauron] limited me in formations, limited me in plays... he's been on my back all off-season."
Alex Van Pelt, a former Bills quarterback, most recently the team's quarterbacks coach, and only in the nascent stage of his NFL coaching career, has been tasked with operating Jauron's Pop Warner offense. The idea is to simplify, to perfect plays you're good at, and to run them repeatedly until opponents prove that they can stop them. You know who else plays with the same philosophy? Some guy named Peyton Manning.
Manning on offensive philosophy in SI.com
In his Just My Type interview for Sports Illustrated (in this case, the September 7 edition, page 36), Dan Patrick spoke with Manning about offensive philosophy. Manning's reply to a question about Chargers QB Philip Rivers perfectly exemplifies Jauron's plan moving forward:
Patrick: Last week Philip Rivers told me that he didn't like the idea of calling his own plays. What's he missing out on?
Manning: San Diego is a diverse offense - they have multiple formations and personnel groups, and they'll shift [a lot]. When it comes down to it, [the Colts are] trying to be good at a certain number of plays, and we're not afraid to run the same play over and over and over again. You've got to be careful trying to run 60 different plays in a game and being pretty good at most of them, as opposed to being great at this core group of plays. I certainly don't call all the plays - I just have the flexibility to change them.
Folks, this is exactly the philosophy that Jauron envisioned when he installed the no-huddle offense. He wants his offense to be up-tempo, and he wants to find the plays that the Bills excel at running and use them until opponents can stop them. Schonert is more like Norv Turner in that he likes a slightly larger call sheet on game days and being able to execute those plays.
Both philosophies have been proven to work. But you simply can't have a discrepancy between head coach and offensive coordinator. Clearly, Schonert's philosophy was not working for this offense. More importantly, QB Trent Edwards' apparent regression this pre-season can at least be partly blamed on the fact that, quite literally, he was hearing different things from his head coach and his offensive coordinator. There had to have been some hesitancy and frustration on Edwards' part. Schonert's firing was done out of necessity - the need to have a unified philosophy, and the need to keep your starting quarterback comfortable.
The clock is ticking on Jauron and Van Pelt
Jauron's Pop Warner philosophy is sound enough on its own merit, but it makes more sense for the Bills' current offensive personnel than does Schonert's philosophy. Edwards is a young quarterback, and he doesn't really excel at one thing. What he can do is process information quickly - when he knows what to expect, that is - and make quick decisions. That will be easier for him with a slimmed-down playbook full of more effective plays. Theoretically, this philosophy gets the ball into the hands of your playmakers more often, as it's less demanding on every player running the scheme. It also makes things easier on your young offensive linemen, as well.
Unfortunately, philosophy isn't enough in this league. No matter how smart it was to make this move, the timing stinks, because Van Pelt now has eight days to put his offense through the paces and find the right plays for that slimmed-down playbook. The timing, really, is the only immediate issue. The longer-term issue is building that playbook quickly enough so that the timing, and a probable slow start to the regular season, doesn't render the philosophy moot.
The clock is ticking. Philosophically, firing Schonert makes all the sense in the world. It won't matter if Jauron and Van Pelt can't turn that philosophy into production.
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Given the realities of this team...
….simpler is probably better. If you have the horses and they’ve been together for awhile, you have the flexibility to make it simple or complex. Since the OL is what is at this stage, simple and quick is probably most practical.
Good points
Brian and good job at laying out the argument for both sides of this. I think here’s what needs to happen from Van Pelt. It’s just simply shrinking the playbook. This offense needs to go lesser plays, so then through repetition Trent can be super comfortable going through his reads, and knowing EXACTLY where to go with the football. If he runs play A that he has run 80 times (via practice/games) OR runs play “B” which he has run 7 times, obviously the success rate for Play A goes up significantly. Bottom line is hard work and perseverance are great things, but only if you are practicing the RIGHT THINGS that will lead to success.
The best advice I can give AVP is this: Script out the first 30 plays. Seriously. Work on those plays all week. Some may even be duplicates. But get Trent comfortable knowing his plays, so he knows when to throw it away, when to take a shot, when read 2 will be open, etc. And then just run the same 30 plays from different formations as the season goes on to disguise it better. My prediction is this offense will be terrible for the first 3-7 games. But the 2nd half should see success. The timing of this thing is just brutal (should have been done in March/April at the latest).
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
The best part about running simple plays is that different reads could be open each time. It’s about being able to fly through your progressions. The same play could be run but the SE could be the first read instead of the FL this time or the TE instead of Slo. It all depends on what the D gives you. I think this will be very successful in the long run.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 6, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
This offense needs to go lesser plays, so then through repetition Trent can be super comfortable going through his reads, and knowing EXACTLY where to go with the football.
Totally agree. The best example of this is the Giants 3 years ago (when they expiremented with a no-huddle of their own late in the season). They only had about 15 plays out of the no huddle, but those 15 plays worked and it won them games late in the season. NOw I’m not saying that we should cut down to that few plays, but the simplistic phylosophy is the same, and should work with a QB as smart as Trent.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 7, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice article. I’m pretty stoked about Van Pelt being the new OC. It just feels better to say it. Jauron will have his input, as well as some from Studesville, but I hope Alex gets to call a good chunk of plays on gamedays. Hopefully he can get Trent more comfortable with the no huddle calls, too.
Brian, do you have an idea on how playcalling is ideally going to be handled. By that I mean, how many plays will Alex call?….Edwards?….Jauron? Studesville? Hamdan? Vernon Turner?
I want to see movies of my dreams. - Built to Spill
K.I.S.S. principle
Hard to argue with a guy that’s been as successful as Manning. He knows when to run what play generally. I believe that Trent can do this too.
The K-Gun was fairly simple in its philosphy as well, letting Jim Kelly be more of a gunslinger on the field.
Vince Lombardi was known for keeping his playbook fairly slim, adjusting what plays to use on a week-to-week basis. He ran the same play in practice over and over and over until he was satisfied it was perfect. The plays became so second nature to his players that they could spend more mental energy on just executing it instead of having to think through their assignments on the fly.
I imagine Alex and Eric Studesville and Tyke and the rest of the offensive staff have some ideas on which plays to include in the playbook at this point. Confidence is what this offense needs most right now, especially Edwards. This is where AVP’s personality will pay big dividends for the Bills.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Hard to argue with a guy that’s been as successful as Manning.
Yeah, I wonder if Schonert would have the audacity to say to Manning’s face that he runs a “Pop Warner” offense.
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
Probably not, but thats basicly what they run. A “pop warner” offense isn’t a bad thing if you can use it with sucess.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 7, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
K-gun
didnt Marv and Ted keep the K-Gun simple they ran the counter with thurman …threw across the middle with Reed …and deep for Lofton or Beebe.
have a few plays for lynch..throw across the middle for Owens or Nelson..and deep for Evans..seems simple.
Definitely a good read, It makes sense, whats the point of making things so complex when you can execute
by Hassanali181 on Sep 6, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
I agree...
That a simpler offensive philosophy may be the best for our personnel. However what I can’t get my head around is how it took Jauron this long to figure out what appears to have been a clear philosophical difference between him and Schonert. I mean there must have been plenty of discussion over the off-season as well as throughout last season. What was the breaking point that made Jauron realize that Schonert and him couldn’t agree? This reflects poor leadership and communication by the bills brass IMO.
With that being said, I’m glad Schonert is gone and I hope AVP sticks to the philosophy of doing a few things well rather than a bunch of things pretty poorly.
However what I can’t get my head around is how it took Jauron this long to figure out what appears to have been a clear philosophical difference between him and Schonert.
I agree, and I think this may have been what Jim Fassel was saying the other day. It took Jauron this long to figure out Turk was the wrong guy? Not that I’m any big fan of Fassel’s, but I think this is what he meant.
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
totally concur
makes me wonder what’s going on in his head. He should have been fired in January. His playcalling was terrible last year.
Hypothetical...
Jauron goes to Turk at the beginning of the offseason and says “Turk, the O wasn’t clicking last year. We need to streamline the playbook with fewer formations and plays.” Turk – “OK skip.”
Jauron goes to Turk at the beginning of the training camp and says “Turk, the offense still isn’t clicking. We need to streamline the playbook with fewer formations and plays.” Turk – “OK skip.”
Jauron goes to Turk at the beginning of the preseason and says “Turk, the offense still isn’t clicking. We need to streamline the playbook with fewer formations and plays.” Turk – “OK skip.”
By the midpreseason, Turk has done nothing Jauron asked and gets fired for it. That’s on Turk, not the Bills brass, not Jauron. Giving a guys a chance to change in the offseason is not a bad move to make. When he stoutly refused to make those changes, Jauron canned him.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 7, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Or....maybe Jauron fired Turk for repeatedly calling him "skip" :-)
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
Turk: “This offense is entirely too simplistic, altogether.”
Dick, AVP, TE [in unison]: “This offense is entirely too simplistic.”
=====
Dick: “Mr. Wilson, we need to hire a new offensive coordinator.”
RW: “A new offensive coordinator?? What is it?”
Dick: “It’s a new guy calling the plays. But that’s not important right now.”
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
Pop Warner???
I personally, don’t care if it is the NFL, the old line, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” still applies…. How many times in the last few years, have we seen the same play run on us repeatedly by an opponent until we finally figure out how to stop it???
Likewise, I see in remarks, and agree, it will help TE…. But folks, it would also help the hell outa our young line as well…
I’m no dolts fan, but it seems to me their line is in a constant state of change the last few years. Yet the offense still flies pretty high…
Sounds good, but...
Exactly which we plays do we run well?
The Dick Jauron version of the K-Gun...the Squirt Gun.
That’s the point. They still haven’t found them, which is why the firing happened. It’ll take time to find those plays, which means that we’ll probably continue to suck for the foreseeable future.
Unless, of course, New England’s defense is as bad as advertised.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 6, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of the Pat’s D, does anyone think Seymour leaving and heading to the Raiders will have a huge impact on their D? I can only hope….the man was a beast…
Riding T.O.'s toe all the way to the playoffs....
by CrazyFootballAddictChick on Sep 6, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s doubtful. The Pats make a point of using first rounders on their defensive line and clearly have a keen eye for talent at DE/DT. Trading Seymour brings some talent that has been languishing on the bench out onto the field. Plus, with an extra 2011 first rounder the Patriots are in prime position to restock the cupboard after the dust settles following what, in theory, could be an uncapped year.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
They will more likely go to a base 4-3 look this year anyhow
Wilfork can be either a NT or a 1 Tech guy, they have Ron Brace who is a solid 3 Tech guy and they also have Derrick Burgess a pure 4-3 DE. They lost Bruschi, so they are down to Mayo as the only truly skilled MLB on the roster, I think we see them play a TON of 4-3 this year, resign Wilfork to some good moola, and then in the next two seasons restock their LBing and DT corps so they go back to the 3-4 full time. I think its going to be majority 4-3 with some 3-4 mixed in, like when they play us.
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
which means that we’ll probably continue to suck for the foreseeable future.
Well, I guess that’s better than sucking for the unforeseeable future /sarcasm
by bluecollarbuffalo on Sep 7, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure I like that whole /sarcasm thing Brian…perhaps I don’ t get the concept, but it looks wierd……
by bluecollarbuffalo on Sep 7, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a play on HTML code, in which tags begin with [command] and end with [/command].
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
by thefourwinds on Sep 7, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Unless, of course, New England’s defense is as bad as advertised.
I’m thinking (hoping) that it is. Them trading away Seymore sure helps us. Their current penchant of the 4-3 also works in our favor IMO. This will be a much different Pat’s deffense that we’ll be facing. Here’s hoping that AVP actually plans for it.
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 7, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
This no-huddle pop warner style offense reminds me of
playing old school Tecmo SuperBowl on the original Nintendo. You have four run plays, four pass plays and the defense has a one in eight shot of absolutely shutting you down.
KISS System
Keep it simple stupid seems like a good way to run an offense. I think if the Bills expect to run an efficient no huddle offense this is the right move. Give Trent a formation to work with, with a handful of plays that he can call at the line depending on what the defense is showing in the 15 seconds that they will have to get set!
considering our offense
is mainly built for success on Trent Edwards, something Brian has been pointing out nonstop this offseason, does anyone think their is a remote chance that getting AVP in as the OC only days before the Monday nighter against New England might give us a better chance against Bellichick than Turk would have with his months of preparation? Obviously what Turk was doing wasn’t registering right with Trent, as evidenced by his regression. If AVP has been doing his job he probably knows what plays have been frustrating Trent, what hes been comfortable with, what hes been wanting to try and whats been throwing him off. With Bellichick having to throw away his binder on our offense after Turk’s firing, does anyone think there is a chance AVP could get more out of Edwards on Monday than Turk would have?
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
Definitely. It’s just that the Pats typically are so much better, it just may not matter much. But, as always, I remain hopeful.
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
it just may not matter much.
Someone told me today that Jauron’s average margin of points against the Pats while with the Bills is -21 or around there. Wouldn’t it be nice to put up a fight?
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 6, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I’m with you there. The games are always much more fun to watch when they’re not blowouts.
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
Thank you Captain Obvious
I kid, I kid……but seriously, I don’t even care if they are not blowouts, as long as they are games where the Bills are taking shots to win instead of trying to keep down the margin of defeat….punting when down 21 kills me….kicking field goals when down 21 drives me nuts! Checking down to the RB on third on long…not acceptable against the #1 team in the division!
by bluecollarbuffalo on Sep 7, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
the key is still the o-line
Pop Warner or Advanced Ph.D., an offense won’t work if there is no real run-blocking, along with inconsistent pass protection. Solve those problems and Trent would probably be fine with any system. There is also a concern with “Pop Warner”: what happens when opponents ARE able to stop the small number of plays the Bills supposedly will be able to run well? What do you do then? And are there any plays that the current offense truly excels at? I’m not aware of any (which goes back to my initial point about the o-line).
Plays the Bills offense runs well :-)
1. The off tackle run for a loss
2. The curl, one yard short of the first down
3. The blindside QB sack
4. The pick 6
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
play number 2
on first down seems like a good option… surely we can pound out one more yard in two plays.
I suppose you weren’t thinking of running that on first down though huh?
LOL!!! Yeah, I thought they only called that play on third down :-)
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
ha ha ha. Funny, but unfortunately true. You might want to add the QB sack with a fumble… :)
Riding T.O.'s toe all the way to the playoffs....
by CrazyFootballAddictChick on Sep 6, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a great list but you left out my favorite — the stuffed run up the middle in short yardage situations. The offense never fails to execute that one perfectly, usually with no gain.
by Macktruck on Sep 6, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We won't be running that play anymore. It was to complicated :-)
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
Mack, you said what I was thinking! The dive up the middle for no gain.
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
by thefourwinds on Sep 6, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
What an epiphany
I don’t really have a problem with either philosophy, but in the “Pop Warner” offense, it’s much easier on a QB because it’s easier to go through your progressions. It allows the QB to focus more on the defense and allows second and third reads to be more natural based on coverages. It makes sense in my head because my flag football team just went through this debacle. It’s just much easier to look at the coverage and know where the ball goes and knowing exactly where your receiver is going to be as opposed to reading coverage, then recalling the play, then finding your receiver, then trying to make an accurate throw…. it leads to bad throws or HESITANCY because you’re asking your brain to do 5 things in less than 3 seconds.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
Here's an idea AVP.....
please dont suck.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 6, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions
2 coaches should have met the "Turk" not just Turk.
Simple may prove to be better(Can’t be worse) but, what have they BEEN running? What I’ve seen (off tackle runs, dump passes, panic) does not seem “complicated” or the work of a mad genius. Plus, to say simple works for Manning, it worked for Lombardi and for Kelly and mention Jauron, Van Pelt, Schonert, and Edwards in the same breath is ludicrous. There is a slight gap when comparing the talent of both groups. Lombardi could outcoach Jauron from where he is now and look more alive doing it!
The fact that the split comes after the entire off season and training camp – highlights the ineptitude, indecision and lack of leadership of Jauron. To say there have been philosophical differences all this time and having done nothing is admitting that the leader is weak, the team rudderless. Personally, I think Jauron’s actions (or lack thereof) are an insult to Bills fans everywhere.
Personally, I think Jauron’s actions (or lack thereof) are an insult to Bills fans everywhere.
… ?
I, for one, am in no way insulted by the firing of Turk Schonert.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 6, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I am in agreement with this.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 6, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Add me to that!
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 7, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Nor am I, I am in fact encouraged by this, we may even see him display emotion on the side line this year!
(443): My mom came into my room and told me to flip off the tv. I gave it the middle finger. Note to self: STOP SMOKING THIS S#!T
-textsfromlastnight.com
The fact that the split comes after the entire off season and training camp – highlights the ineptitude, indecision and lack of leadership of Jauron.
Actually it highlights his decisiveness and leadership to me. It took cajones to fire his OC a week and a half before the season. It’s a wake up call to everyone.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 7, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I certainly cannot argue with this post Brian
I’ve been drawing comparisons to the Colts no-huddle for a few weeks now. I agree with simplifying it, give Trent the ability to be decisive with deeper plays, let him get a groove and then add to it.
Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Hey, I think I can predict the final roster now. Is the competition still open?
It’s all for the best that the Bills are going to simplify the offense. Why try to Tango when you can’t even walk without stumbling?
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
If you step back
and look at the big picture, not analyzing every what-if and might-be scenario, you can see an organization that is not on top of things. The results are an ever-changing coaching staff with very little stability, and players not exactly sure what to do.
But who is not sure what to do? It’s not like he is changing the offense. He is streamlining it. He is taking stuff out. They have a better chance of knowing what to do because less information is needed.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 7, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
How can anyone feel insulted by Turk's firing?
I for one will also not be insulted when Jauron is canned by the Bills’ bye week either.
Yeah, that’s how bad we’re gonna be.
The Dick Jauron version of the K-Gun...the Squirt Gun.
Love the article and totally agree with the philosophy.
ManI leave for a week an the entire teams turns on it’s head! I love this move by Jauron BTW. Turk was not the right guy to run this no-huddle offence, I don’t know if Van Pelt is, but only time will tell.
This move makes all kind on sense for me. If our offense struggle with a large veriaty of plays but can do 40 or 50 plays very well, why not just cut the play book down to those play? Who cares if you end up running the same play 2 or 3 times in a game? The Colts have done it for years and it seems to work great for them!
Simplicity will be key for this offence and I for one love the KISS methode that DJ is enforcing. Keep It Simple Stupid!
Captain of the "Promote Bob Sanders to Deffensive Coordinator" band wagon.
by CanadianBillsFan on Sep 7, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions
I like the KISS idea
but prefer the seven P’s
Proper
Planning and
Preparation
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance
This has been an area where Turk, and the rest of the staff, consistantly failed.
Here’s to AVP, Co ordinator aof the year 2010
"When Manchester United are at their best I am close to orgasm!" Gianluca Vialli
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was, you know, important - like a league game or something." Dick Butkus
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