Bills taking the (massively) youthful route up front
by Brian Galliford on Sep 8, 2009 9:00 PM EDT
in News
132 comments
To say that the Buffalo Bills have forced a transformation along their offensive line over the past several months is, perhaps, one of the largest understatements a fan can make about the current team. Gone from 2008 are four veteran starters, the latest, obviously, being OT Langston Walker, who was released on Tuesday. Replacing the veterans are two rookies, another player who is essentially a rookie, and a veteran free agent center that has never been a full-time starter.
The transformation is not only broad, it leaves the Bills vastly inexperienced in an area that used to be one of the team's most veteran units. Some quick perspective: Brad Butler, making the transition from right guard to right tackle, was the Bills' least experienced starting lineman in 2008. One year later, he's this line's senior member.
2008 starting offensive line
LT: Jason Peters (42 starts)
LG: Derrick Dockery (77 starts)
C: Melvin Fowler (55 starts)
RG: Brad Butler (16 starts)
RT: Langston Walker (49 starters)
Total: 239 starts (48 per lineman)
2009 starting offensive line
LT: Demetrius Bell (0 starts)
LG: Andy Levitre (0 starts)
C: Geoff Hangartner (27 starts)
RG: Eric Wood (0 starts)
RT: Brad Butler (29 starts)
Total: 56 starts (11 per lineman)
The difference is vast. Clearly, the line is far less experienced this season, but the most disconcerting change is, obviously, starting three players that are essentially rookies.
That's not to say that Buffalo's new-look offensive line isn't talented. Wood and Levitre were highly-touted prospects entering April's NFL Draft. Bell has been touted as a potential diamond in the rough for over a year since entering the league as a seventh-round project out of Northwestern State. Hangartner, though never a full-time starter, proved effective in fill-in duty for four seasons in Carolina. Butler is moving back to the position he played in colege after playing out of position at guard for most of his three seasons in Buffalo. All of these players, with the possible exception of the unknown commodity (Bell), play the game with a nasty disposition, they finish blocks, and they have the ability to get better (which, obviously, Bell does as well).
Someday, perhaps sooner than most think, this line could be quite good. The idea that they'll magically gel over the next six days to keep Trent Edwards upright for four quarters in New England is absurd. Like everything else with this team at the moment, this line is now vastly inexperienced and very much a work in progress. Just like they're doing at offensive coordinator, they're now relying on vastly inexperienced personnel at arguably the offense's most important group. It's a gamble. With every gamble the team makes, the chances of success dwindle.
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Well I hope they develop the kind of chemistry we have yet to see from an OLINE in the Richard era.......
otherwise…..
Well…….
just yeah.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 8, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unreal
I’ve been following this team my whole life, and this is the first time I can remember being so down about an upcoming season. They haven’t even kicked off yet and it feels like there 0-6.
I know we have to believe and all, but my gosh it’s gonna be a long year.
by Michael_Necci on Sep 8, 2009 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Um this sounds an awful like what I read
by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 8, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute
that article says the team is practicing outdoors! YES!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is not below freezing yet.
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But those mosquitoes can be a nuisance!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, they had to get rid of the bug zappers....too distracting for the players. Marshawn kept daring players to pee on them.
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man..... I wanna puke...........
………. I had such high hopes. I’m coming up from TN to see two games (Tampa and Cleveland) and already have my tickets for the Titans game down here in Nashville.
I just don’t get it sometimes………what they are thinking at OBD?
Positive! Think Positive!
MAYBE……. just maybe, if the moons allign, and we get a great year out of our offense and defense, we might get a wildcard. It could happen.
Next year, after these young linemen have another year under their belt and get beefier, with our young team, a healthy Hardy, we might have a shot.
I just get tired of saying “next year”.
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Sep 8, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those might be the two most winnable home games….you’ve got that going for ya!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was gonna say – if those are the three games you’re seeing, there’s a strong chance you’ll see the Bills go 2-1 in person. Chin up.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 9, 2009 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In ten years doing things the "right" way never seemed to work
Maybe doing everything the “wrong” way will work.
I am more unsure than “down” about all of this. At this point, if all this comes together, yippee, otherwise, whatever, just more of the same. Let’s see what the guys do, and if they don’t get it done, we’ll have more to talk about.
by syrbillsfan on Sep 9, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sucks to be named Trent Edwards
And after he’s carried off the field by halftime (maybe being the NFL’s first fatality as Carson Palmer assured the world would someday happen during a game) it sucks to be named Ryan Fitzpatrick. I guess we’ll finally get to see Gibran Hamdan get some game time. Anyone want to shoot for the Vegas over/under on how many series Hamdan gets before he, too, is mangled?
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 8, 2009 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Man I hope that means the return of Brian's favorite QB
Matt Bowen!!!!!!
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 8, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dare I say it? If we have that many injuries, we might try to steal back JP from the UFL.
Penn Staters belong at Penn State. The problem with a lot of kids is they just don’t know they are Penn Staters yet. -jesse. @ BSD
by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Sep 8, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian is currently higher on the depth chart than J.P.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Sep 8, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to hear that, Brian. We’ll miss you after you’re killed during the the week 2 game.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 8, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steal is too positive of a word in that context
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
You seem to be pretty upset about the Walker release….do you really think Trent would have stayed upright with him at LT, Ron????
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At LT, no, but I think it’s insane to jettison a quality RT just because he can’t play LT. Buffalo isn’t going to cut Kyle Williams for being incapable of playing DE.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 8, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Walker was a quality RT and got totally screwed because our rather inept staff thought he could be a LT. I just don’t see how his release is going to cause Trent to get killed. Is it that you have no faith in Butler at RT?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isnt it fair to conclude that they see Brad Butler as the superior RT?
If not, they wouldve left him at RG.
If Langston can’t play LT, then he becomes a very expensive backup RT, in which he deserves to be cut.
I don’t think its hard to make a case that this was a good move. I think it’s hard to make a case that this was a good move to make right now.
Stupar 2012!
by JPH on Sep 9, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what happens when Butler has his annual in-season injury? I like Chambers but I’d rather have Walker at RT than Chambers.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 9, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ding, Ding, Ding.
"I call him Scuba Steve. I also call him Stevie Wonder. Pretty soon, I shall call him Scuba Wonder." - B.G.
by jj24 on Sep 9, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tight ends might see a lot of playing time on MNF
by Gino Parilli on Sep 8, 2009 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hah, a 3-TE set might almost prevent edwards from being destroyed six or eight times.
by the_prophet on Sep 9, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the positive side
There is at least potential on the O-Line…
by NolaBillsFan on Sep 8, 2009 9:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Potential....
…..to ensure the Bills don’t have to worry about reworking Edwards’ deal at the end of the season because he’s still in a coma?
…..to earn the #1 draft pick?
…..to lead the league in sack yards allowed?
…..to make Jon Gruden’s habit of keeping 4-5 QBs on the roster seem recklessly optimistic?
Help me out here.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 8, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could surprise
I like the idea of some kids playing with something to prove to average players with no upside.
by NolaBillsFan on Sep 8, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…..to ensure the Bills don’t have to worry about reworking Edwards’ deal at the end of the season because he’s still in a coma?
lol, only these comments to make me laugh about it.
by hightower_mc on Sep 8, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All this over the loss of Walker, Ron???
You didn’t seem this pessimistic about the OL last week….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this isn’t making any sense to me either. Walker to Bell seems like a pretty lateral move.
by kaisertown on Sep 8, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can try to make that case: Bell to start, Walker to, say, RT where he had a pretty solid 2008.
I think it’s probably the drip-drip-drip of news that has me kind of edgy but there’s no logic to dumping a player just because he can’t fill a role that he’s not capable of filling.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 8, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea i third that
This morning we were all fine with avp and talking about how long or short it would be before walker was displaced by bell. Now the season is over because of walker?
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 8, 2009 11:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Right now it is not a lateral move because Walker had game experience.
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This, folks, is why you should avoid blogging when you’re in a bad place mentally. Ron, you do all of the O-Line reviews, and just over a week ago, you were talking up Hangartner, Wood, Butler, and even Levitre. They still play for us.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 9, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize part of this is me just being pissed that Buffalo is dumping a guy (RT) for not being what he never was (LT). Hopefully I was smart enough when talking up Butler to throw in the injury caveat.
Pair this with the link this morning about Buffalo being 25th out of the 32 teams in terms of player contracts and the move makes even less sense. What’s the hurry to dump Walker’s salary?
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 9, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is still a trade coming for a player on the defense.
by Buffalo Mo on Sep 9, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have an inside track for this type of info?
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 9, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello Demetrius, but did we have to lose Walker?
I believe I have been the member of this website who has been most enthusiastic about Demetrius Bell starting last March, when I predicted to considerable ridicule at the time that he would be the replacement for Jason Peters sooner or later. Based on that, everyone might expect that I am elated today that my longstanding prediction has come true, and to some extent I am. I think he will do well at LT much quicker than most Bills fans expect. But I am also very unhappy about the decision to cast off Langston Walker, who has impressed me over the past two years as one of the steadiest and most dependable guys we have had on the o-line.
I recall reading a couple of national sportswriters at the end of last season who argued that Walker was one of the two or three best RT’s in the league and said he would surely go to the Pro Bowl if there was a separate category for RT’s. I’m not certain I would go that far, but he was very good, especially combined with Butler at RG. It was the one part of the o-line that was working well. It’s true that Walker hasn’t looked impressive this year, but then he was being forced to leave the position where he is comfortable for one where his skill set doesn’t work nearly as well. Mark Gaughn commented during the summer that Walker seemed genuinely unhappy, and I observed that that was probably because he knew he would be let go as soon as Bell was ready. Not exactly the right way to treat a guy who has been very loyal to the team.
The alternative was to put him back at RT, return Butler to RG, and have an o-line during this critical year that would have been far more experienced than the one we are going to have. I realize that releasing him saves money that can be used elsewhere, but given the desperate prospects of this team, which Brian notes so well in his piece above, it strikes me as worth $3 million to keep as much of a veteran presence on the o-line as we can at least through 2009. Not doing so is a major blunder, in my view.
On the other hand, I’m delighted to see Kirk Chambers come back so soon. As Brian has told us repeatedly, he is an exceptionally valuable player to have around given all his versatility and the fact that he is battle-tested. But if that’s true, why on earth did they release him and take the chance of losing him when they could as easily have cut Jonathan Scott for the four days with a far lower likelihood of anyone signing him off waivers? The way this team goes about conducting its business at the moment does not exactly inspire confidence.
by Macktruck on Sep 8, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Well said.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 8, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...rec'd
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
might the bills pick up another free agent tackle besides chambers?
by chaucer on Sep 9, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope… they are rolling with this.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 9, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im sorry I liked most of what you said.....
but we signed the guy to like a 49 million dollar contact over 7 years…..(overpaid really) the Bills dont need to show any other loyalty than that.
Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009
by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 8, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it was $25 million over five years. The last two years at RT he was worth his pay (in 2008 he did not allow even one sack on his side).
by Macktruck on Sep 8, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that was Dockery
I think Walker was 5 year 25 Mil.
Why do today, when it can wait til tomorrow; the games on!
by UtahBillsFan on Sep 8, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recall reading a couple of national sportswriters at the end of last season who argued that Walker was one of the two or three best RT’s in the league and said he would surely go to the Pro Bowl if there was a separate category for RT’s.
Really? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything even remotely close to that. Walker was a pretty average player. He might have been a pretty solid pass blocker on the right side, but Casey Joiner has always graded him as a below average run blocker. Even Ron graded him as the 2nd worst run blocker on our OL in 2007.
by kaisertown on Sep 8, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ron is suggesting now, as I am, that he was an above average RT. Not the best in the NFL, but very good and dependable. The fact that he allowed no sacks whatsoever in 2008 provides proof that he was more than “pretty average.”
by Macktruck on Sep 9, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you do not mention is that the Bills obviously believe Butler is the team’s best RT. He’s flown under the radar in the pre-season; he played well. It’s his natural position. They obviously were NOT going to bench Butler, nor were they going to move him – he’s where the coaching staff should have had him all along.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 9, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s played well when not being driven into Edwards’ throwing arm causing an overthrow and thereby killing a drive.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 9, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. You’re talking about one play.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 9, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even in 2008, Walker had some similar problems resulting in holds and the like when speed rushers were involved. I think, Ron, you’re confusing Walker being the 2008 Bills best offensive linemen with being 2008 NFL best offensive linemen. He is good and dependable, but I’m sure Butler is those things at right tackle, and Chambers can fill in just fine if Butler goes down. There isn’t really a spot on the roster for the potential sulking that may have commenced from the demotion.
by syrbillsfan on Sep 9, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that’s what the coaching staff may think, but remember that I don’t have much confidence in the coaching staff (and given their track record on the o-line I would argue that my vote of no confidence is justified). For this season (2009) Walker clearly has the advantage over Butler in terms of sheer bulk and experience. Walker is also surprisingly athletic given his size and may have the advantage over Butler at RT for the next several years. Remember that he started all 16 games last season (something Butler has never managed to do) and did not allow one sack. I’ll bet you right now that Butler gives up at least five sacks this year.
by Macktruck on Sep 9, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll stick with my original post on this one. Chambers has a ton of NFL experience and can be plugged in as a back-up starter at LT, LG, RT, or RG without any hesitation. That makes him very valuable. Scott can only play RT so far as I know and has almost no real playing time as a pro. In 2009, with so much riding on the season, it seems to me that Chambers was the one the team could least afford to lose. Or if they believed Scott would be claimed rapidly they could have cut Wendling for the four days. That would have been very low risk.
by Macktruck on Sep 9, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mack...
well said, but honestly…Scott os a more valuable prospect than Chambers, who will never be more than what he already is. Scott has some upside to him and bing 4 years younger, may have been snapped up much faster.
by NorCal BillsFan on Sep 9, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really doubt that. Scott was let go by the Lions because he wasn’t good enough. Isn’t that telling enough??
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 10, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Sep 8, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this is hard
It is no mystery that this team will see a lot more downs that ups this year, but i hope they really understand that themselves, but are looking to grow. If they are drinking some of our very own Kool-aid and think that this year may somehow be straight out of a movie and they are going to make a tear jerking run for the play-offs we are all truly doomed.
It’s obvious we are not in Win now mode any longer. It will be 2-3 years until this O-line (which will be the building block of the team) is a complete unit.
There is also a young and athletic secondary developing with a possible LB unit in the process as well.
We will see a new HC with a new QB.
If they can stay together….
I know it has been a while, but its gunna be a little longer, enjoy the ride Rumblers. I know i will.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone"
-Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Sep 8, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good attitude to have...rec'd
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I'm wrong
I really, really don’t like our chances this season, perhaps in the future. This could be win-win, if we win great and if not the DJ fiasco hopefully ends.
Why do today, when it can wait til tomorrow; the games on!
by UtahBillsFan on Sep 8, 2009 10:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This doesn’t seem like a coach who is fighting for his life.
by NolaBillsFan on Sep 8, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to the contrary
When has jauron ever acted erratically before? This is as cagey as it gets the last few days. He dumped a LT he knew he couldn’t win with for a LT who at least has the tiniest potential to be great. I think dj is going out swinging for the fences.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 8, 2009 11:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
very true
this is extremely odd behavior for a guy like Jauron; though I’d much rather see him go out trying then idle in mediocrity. The problem is when guys that aren’t used to hitting home runs swing for the fences, they usually whiff. I’m wondering if these moves will help or hurt the rebuilding job for next Bills head coach. Neutron Jauron: he eradicates the players and staff, but leaves the buildings standing.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Sep 9, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is when guys that aren’t used to hitting home runs swing for the fences, they usually whiff.
Very true, but then again, if Jauron was good at hitting home runs he wouldnt be in this situation.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 9, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This could
be the reason why they kept Mcntyre (sp), which seemed inexplicable at the time.
My feeling is that DJ and crew believe that if the no huddle is run at a quick enough pace that would negate the inexperience.
by Ono on Sep 8, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They kept McIntyre...
for at least one reason, maybe two:
(1) he can pass block
(2) Turk was already gone in DJs mind, I am sure that DJ asked AVP for his input regarding keeping a FB
by NorCal BillsFan on Sep 9, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit
this does seem odd. As I thought of Langston Walker as a class act. A smart player, a massive giant at 6’8" 360+. And I think I don’t know for sure but he just struck me as a guy who would be a great teammate, a leader, and a good worker at his craft through his great work-ethic. And to see the Bills drag him along all pre-season and then release him is somewhat brutal for him, but you know what…this is a business. The Patriots, Eagles, and Steelers for example make these kind of moves every pre-season of cutting long time veterans. It’s just an unfortunate part of the business side of things. Fact of the matter is, if Jason Peters was the LT, Langston Walker, or Bell, this move to dump Walker is the LEAST of my concerns regarding this team and I think will have virtually on effect as far as wins/losses go. That is to say, I think D Bell will be just fine at LT, but it’s tough to be worst than Peters was last year
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Sep 8, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Walker was all that stuff you mentioned above until they tagged him to play left tackle. It was almost as if he was afraid to try, he had a “if that’s what they want me to do…..” kind of attitude. I think he knew he was set up for failure, but thinking that way leads to mistakes, which ultimately causes you to fail.
by syrbillsfan on Sep 9, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why so down?
If D.Bell were a first round Offensive Tackle, no one would be complaining about him beating out Langston Walker. As has been mentioned numerous times across an assortment of media outlets, Bell is athletically superior to many of the LT currently in the game. His skills have caught up enough that he is the starter. I am more comfortable with him then Langston at LT.
The guards we are plugging into the line yes are rookies, again though, Wood is a first rounder and has been very good so far and Levitre has progressed well since that bull rush play against the Titans. Hangartner has been better then Fowler ever was and Brad Butler has been solid since the day he joined the team.
I do not believe that it will take 2-3 years for this line to gell together. Much like a few years ago, by the bye week the team should be running at 95%.
I am pleased with this move short term and ecstatic long term. Now if only the Bills would decide to go younger on defense and start Aaron Maybin at DE. I will take the potential to be great over the known to be average every time.
by Bill from LI on Sep 8, 2009 10:33 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
also rec'd
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 9, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right.
Gelling is important – but it doesn’t take years. These guys are all talented and the chemistry is good. They won’t be our biggest liability by any means. We have reason to fear what these changes bring, but really, at worst will the result be any different than the past few years? I doubt it, and even if it is, so what, at least they’ll be different. The potential reward though is a running game that can’t be stopped. Wouldn’t that be great, to see Lynch working up to potential, Lynch with space? Runs where the guys get up field and Lynch goes UNTOUCHED to the end zone?
I hope this works!!
by syrbillsfan on Sep 9, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go not softly into the night
If your gonna’ do it, go balls out and do it. Gotta’ respect that at least.
by Pietro Sirianni on Sep 8, 2009 10:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s just about the only straw i can grasp at this morning…
now, maybe the president can take a play out of DJ’s desperation playbook tonight…
by oompaloompa on Sep 9, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never go to posting the results, but
I did put a stop watch on Edwards to see how long the O-line was giving him. Edwards was consistently getting the ball out of his hands in about 2 – 3 seconds. Add to this:
1. A young O-line who will have trouble block over 3 sec
2. Jauron’s strong feeling that the plays/reads need to be simple
3. T.O. out of the lineup
and the fact that Edwards has not gone deep much starts to make more sense. Edwards has been confused and at the same time required to decide where he is going with the ball in about 1.5 seconds before he has to start delivering the ball. That doesn’t leave much time to see if the deep route is developing does it. May we can use our TEs to chip the DEs on the line and release into a short pattern that allows for some YAC. Also, add in some screen plays to take advantage of the pass rush. If AVP can make it work, we could surprise some folks.
Yes, I am trying to look on the bright side. Time for another glass of Tropical Punch :-)
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least there is no recent game tape of Bell to over-analyze...
Just have to wait til Monday night to see the big fella in real action. For now I can live with the delusion for a few more days that maybe the o-line isnt going to be absolutely awful to start the season… just well below average. Silver lining..
by Squirmin' Thurman on Sep 8, 2009 11:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think what I’ll miss most is 68 seconds with Langston Walker : (
by thejimbo on Sep 8, 2009 11:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
Now we can look forward to 77 Seconds with Demetrius Bell. What an upgrade!! 9 more seconds!!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Dockery do that before Walker????
Conspiracy……Conspiracy……Conspiracy……Conspiracy……
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could always do 5 seconds with Trent Edwards…..
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Sep 8, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what she said
ohhhhhhhhhhhh
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Sep 8, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
better than 2.5"
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks...the under/over on how long I can keep it is 8.5 games
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 seconds in heaven are better than 2.5 seconds in heaven
with Trent, you only need 5 seconds cuz hes so intense.
(FOTC fans, anyone?)
Stupar 2012!
by JPH on Sep 9, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edwards is going to be too busy do his own new show
“Foods you can suck through a straw”.
Teflon Jauron…..Nothing sticks to Dick
by Joe P. on Sep 8, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boiled chicken in a food processor…….mmmmm.
"I call him Scuba Steve. I also call him Stevie Wonder. Pretty soon, I shall call him Scuba Wonder." - B.G.
by jj24 on Sep 9, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least we have marcus' mailbag
hopefully we’ll be thanking the mailman for delivering us Bell.
by thejimbo on Sep 8, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless Buffalo cuts him for not being able to play DB.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Sep 8, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re oversimplifying Ron. Sure, he is a talent, but I don’t think he’s really any better than Butler / Chambers if Butler goes down. You think he’ll be happy on the Bench?
Look at it this way, they should have done this kind of purge years ago. Instead of signing the middling talent, high price tag free agents (A la KC Royals, Pittsburgh Pirates) they purged them and put in their inexperienced but undoubtedly talented players (a la Tampa Bay Rays, Florida Marlins). Keeps the payroll manageable with the side affect of putting the best talent on the field where they can develop. (The only place in the NFL players can get better these days, on the field). If you’re going to change things, change things. The Bills now have 4 o-linemen sculpted only by themselves who have some loyalty to the team and probably remember to just have fun. Walker soured a lot when tapped to play LT, and maybe that bitterness or fear or whatever took a lot away from his play. Once we learned he wouldn’t cut it at LT, they only place for him to go was out the door, maybe he’ll catch on somewhere else. He wasn’t going to help us this year at any other position.
by syrbillsfan on Sep 9, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this sickens me!!
I feel sorry for the season-ticket holders. They’ve been duped, along with the rest of the Bills fans. I’m literally nauseated to the point of throwing up, with each horrible personal decision, the organization has made.
Now, I didn’t have grandiose expectations for this team two months ago like most people who post on here or the official Bills websites. I was thinking 6-10, based on strength of schedule, the draft and what the other teams in our division did. Every other team in the division got better. The schedule is much more difficult, and we failed to get sufficient value for a Jason peters.
You can’t lose a Pro bowl left tackle, hope to replace him with the aging, lumbering right tackle and expect your third-year quarterback to stay upright for an entire season. Obviously they came to that conclusion themselves….6 months too late. Whoever’s idea it was to completely ignore the tackle position during the draft should be fired.
Unfortunately, I think Ralph Wilson has joined the ranks of Al Davis. Once great owners of proud franchises, now more likely to soil their adult diapers then to return to the Super Bowl in their lifetimes.
by freeride707 on Sep 8, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea where you get the idea that most people on here had grandiose expectations. I’m fairly confident people like me who did and still do believe this is a competitive football team have clearly been marked as the minority for some time.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 9, 2009 12:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
i say this with all the kindness in my heart: what the hell are you talking about? OBD isn’t anywhere near al davis and his 2025 first round draft picks and his heyward-beys. quit complaining until a few games into the season. for all we know, this team could – and it definitely has the potential to do this – do extremely well this year. we’ve got playmakers on defense and offense in positions we’ve never had them before, we’ve got vast amounts of talent in the younger players, and we’ve got a grand total of three players (schobel, stroud, and TO) who are old enough to consider this possibly their last chance at a strong season as a pro, barring injury. we’ll be FINE! read poz’s post, man, and then drink some wine. a lot of it.
by the_prophet on Sep 9, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m literally nauseated to the point of throwing up, with each horrible personal decision, the organization has made.
That’s pathetic. It’s just football.
"I call him Scuba Steve. I also call him Stevie Wonder. Pretty soon, I shall call him Scuba Wonder." - B.G.
by jj24 on Sep 9, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we failed to get sufficient value for a Jason peters.
really? I think we got excellent value. turned an undrafted TE into a 1st round pick and turned a 7th rounder into a starting LT. We don’t know how Bell will pan out – but to me – sounds like we’re doing o.k.
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
by J2 on Sep 9, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like what brian says in this post. but damn, i think i lost what little hope i had left in the 2009 buffalo bills. with an inexperienced line and an inexperienced play-caller, it looks as though it’s going to be a long and terrible season. =(
by chaucer on Sep 9, 2009 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
fandom!
do you guys listen to Sirius NFL radio? Moving the chains? Well, if you do, you know you’re stuck in fandom. “Fandom” is when you have unrealistic expectations for your football team, yet you cling bitterly/blindly to the notion that we’re a better football team than what all the experts believe.
I’ll be the first to tell you, I’m a huge fan, and I’ll be watching every game on the ticket (live in California), albeit with a much more skepticalopinion of the state of our franchise. Particularly the front office.
If we we win more than seven games, I’ll never post on here again. Believe me, I pray that’s not the casebecause I hate uttering the words “I told you so”.
by freeride707 on Sep 9, 2009 1:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you actually read what any of us have to say? I would say that 80-85% of commenters, and 90-95% of readers, have not believed at any point this off-season that this was a playoff team. Stop lecturing to the minority.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 9, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well said.
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 9, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe me, I pray that’s not the casebecause I hate uttering the words "I told you so".
I don’t know you, but everyone basks in the glory of saying “I told you so.” Have fun watching the games and knowing everything that will happen this year.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 9, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
baseball prospectus looks at a lot of Free Agent signings with this question “Is this guy going to be helping the next relevant Royals/Reds/____ team?” In a lot of cases, the answer is no, which is why you shake your head at smaller market teams in baseball signing aging, C- free agents. Different sport, but the same question should be asked of Walker. Would he have been on the next relevant Bills team?
I think the answer is no. Clearly he’s not a LT. Even if he’s a better one than Bell at the moment, I bet he won’t be next year, (or two years from now, or three). That leaves RT, and the team clearly thinks Butler is superior to Walker as a RT, seeing as they moved Walker to make room for him. (Again, even if he isn’t just yet, Butler will develop, Walker is not getting any better.)
So if he can’t play LT or RT the next time it matters for the Bills, why keep him on the roster at all? He’s too expensive to be a reserve, so why not cut your ties now?
Two weeks ago if you had asked me who the tackles would be for the next contending Bills team, I would’ve said Bell and Butler. Today, that answer is the same. What’s the big deal?
Stupar 2012!
by JPH on Sep 9, 2009 1:42 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well, I think the big deal is that people think it’s a sign that 2009 is a rebuilding year.
But regardless of Walker everything would need to break right for the team to make the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game. So I’m fine with going with Bell now if it makes the team better down the road, although I’d probably have a little more comfort if he actually practiced over the last few weeks.
by Pistol on Sep 9, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JPH,
This is definitely a well-thought-out post. The only question in my mind (and I’m sure this is a dominant question in the minds of many) is, “Why couldn’t some of these moves have been made months ago?”
Especially if you consider they were trying to trade Walker. Surely they could have gotten something for him, as they could have gotten something for Dockery as well.
Also, it all points to the fact that Schonert should have been fired earlier.
The only answer I can think of is that they were hedging their bets against Bell not really progressing or getting injured in the offseason.
Oh yes…great sig!
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
by thefourwinds on Sep 9, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Why couldn’t some of these moves have been made months ago?"
answer
I can think of is that they were hedging their bets against Bell not really progressing or getting injured in the offseason.
I think that Walker said yes, and they had to see if Bell really could perform. Bell did. Walker didn’t. They were taking the safe route.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 9, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. They could not have made this move months ago as some have clamored for.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 9, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody Panic!!!
Who here really thought that the Bills were winners with Langston at LT? This fan reaction has as much, probably more, to do with the shared hatred for the Patriots as it does with a genuine concern for the entire season. I do not want to lose to the Patriots. But we’re probably gonna. IMO, that doesn’t change whether we have Langston in there or Bell. Not next Monday, in any case. Edwards would be rocked either way.
If this release is truly the impetus for all this subsequent chatter, then nobody was paying attention to the offseason. I know its more, such as, for some the retention of Jauron, Jauron’s retention of Turk, Jauron’s subsequent firing of the Turk, the lack of an attempt to find another LT in April, etc.—but those are played out in that we’ve already discussed them ad infinitum.
Come on ya’ll, the season is 16 games long. If Bell gives the Bills a greater chance of winning more of those 16 games than Walker would (and I think he does), then why this reaction? I am not saying the Bills are a playoff team, but this collective freakout is based on the expected product on Monday night, not what we’ll see the weeks after.
by DCRumbler on Sep 9, 2009 8:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha – trust me when I say that pleas for perspective are futile. Right now, folks – particularly WNY media, for whatever reason – are using any development they can to pile on and get more depressed. It’s kind of sad.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Sep 9, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think people are reacting to the miserable performance of the offense during the preseason, which is more meaningful than it would usually be because it matches the miserable performance of the offense all last year. They are also reacting to a series of questionable decisions by the coaching staff that leaves folks wondering if these guys know what they are doing. I would say it’s a case of reacting to objective indicators, not piling on and getting depressed just for the sake of it. The only way the Bills can stop this is by providing objective evidence on the playing field that they are in fact improving.
by Macktruck on Sep 9, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now, folks – particularly WNY media, for whatever reason – are using any development they can to pile on and get more depressed. It’s kind of sad.
I think that’s an awesome move on their parts. This way they’re all prepared to be cheered up by even the smallest nugget of good the Bills might perform on game day. No let downs, only pick-me-ups once the season starts :)
by syrbillsfan on Sep 9, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there ya go!
Totally agree
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 9, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why did it take so long?
- What I don’t understand, is that it took 5 pre-season games to decide to change the offensive coordinator and the offensive line. I could never understand starting Walker at left tackle, since he is not mobile and weighs close to 360lbs.
- You would think they watch enough tape to realize that they should have started Chambers or Bell there, since Chambers did look better than most last season. Which isn’t saying much.
- So they pretty much just waisted the whole pre-season with the wrong offensive line.
- I don’t have a clue what Jauron is thinking anymore.
by BuffaloWhiner on Sep 9, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So they pretty much just waisted the whole pre-season with the wrong offensive line.
One player gets switched and we had the wrong O-line? Bell got reps with the first team. I think we have an O-line that will go through a couple bumps and be strong for 3-4 years now. I would have said that with Walker.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 9, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bell got reps with the first team and was injured for two weeks. Don’t know how he could take first team reps from the bench.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 9, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confused. Are we in agreement?
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 9, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was more in response to BW. Bell would have had more reps than he did if he hadn’t got hurt.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Sep 10, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re in agreement then.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 10, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, you get a little tied up with work and family for a day and look what you miss….
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
by thefourwinds on Sep 9, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unacceptable
A man has to know his priorities;
1) Rumblings
2) Family
3) Work
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Sep 9, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
edit
1.) Rumblings
2.) Family
3.) Drinking
4.) Work
When a guy who works in the same room as me at work heard about Walker being cut he asked me from across the room “are you rumbling right now? I bet you are!” He’s from the south and not a Bills fan, I guess its just become common knowledge what tab I always have open at work…
Jonathan Stupar played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
by poz on Sep 9, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A man has to know his priorities;
1) Rumblings
2) Family
3) Work
Hey, if Rumblings wants to put me on the payroll, I’m all ears!
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
by thefourwinds on Sep 9, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The scary thing is how close I am to that order of priority already….
Wouldn't it be ironic if this team imploded and it had nothing to do with TO?
by thefourwinds on Sep 9, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahah
I can do all things through he whom gives me strength. Philippians 4:13
by NCbillsfan12 on Sep 9, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOWHERE BUT UP!
I’m not to the point of looking forward to next season, yet. At this point, I’m looking 5 games in at which time we’ll have a good idea about this O-Line in action, whether they’re making progress that’ll make good on THIS year. I’m bummed and apprehensive, not necessarily because of what we’ve tossed off the last few days, but because we tossed them off at this particular juncture, and I’m gonna guess that’s what’s got everyone else worked up for the most part, too. If we can manage a couple wins midway through October and the line looks like its jelling, this year might not be a lost cause after all…
by oompaloompa on Sep 9, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
I understand the upset because Walker was a serviceable RT who got switched to LT, but this is a business and Walker agreed to the switch. Walker won’t be unemployed long.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Sep 9, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the last time I go camping for a few days without internet! Only several hundred comments to read through between this and the previous thread…
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
by Ghetts on Sep 9, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The thing that really worries me about the O-line
is penalties. Has anyone thought about that? False starts can kill the no huddle before it even gets a chance to get started.
I can see why people are having a hard time understanding the Walker move and the timing. I agree that he got a bit of a raw deal, but hey you can’t pay a guy big bucks to be a back up. I just wonder if a pay cut was ever offered?
Either way, I could care less if it is Walker, Bell or my grandma playing LT, as long as they produce.
by billskk69 on Sep 9, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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