Bills need to turn to Plan C list
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 9:00 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
Email
PrintWe have reached Day 12 of the Buffalo Bills' coaching search. I'm throwing the team a bone, because in reality, they've been on the prowl for a head coach since November 17. We'll go with 12 days to keep psyche as high as possible, and no, I will not hear your rational arguments to the contrary. 12 days, folks.
As it stands right now, Buffalo's got one relevant interview in the bag, having sat down last week with Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier. Yes, they interviewed Perry Fewell, but as he's the shiny new defensive coordinator for the Giants, it's unlikely he'll be Buffalo's next head coach. The team has one more potential interview scheduled likely for next week, when they'll sit down with Arizona assistant head coach Russ Grimm, whose reported interest in the job can best be described as "lukewarm."
Buffalo had a Plan A - they wooed Mike Shanahan and Bill Cowher. Neither man was overly interested in the job, and one has a brand new employer in our nation's capital. The team also had a Plan B - they reached out to Frazier, Grimm and Jets coordinator Brian Schottenheimer. That group has netted just one interview, however, and possibly a second - again, if that happens, it'll probably be next week.
No matter which way you cut it, the Bills need to save a little face. Plan A blew up. Plan B didn't work out exactly as expected, either, and the end result could be just one man with serious interest in the job. That one man can't be the final stop in the search process - it doesn't look good for the team, and ultimately, it's not in the team's best interests, either.
No one's really sure just how long Frazier and/or Grimm might have to wait to accept any offer either gets from the Bills, because they can't be hired until their teams are eliminated from the playoffs (or, obviously, if they win it all). That means that Buffalo could be waiting as long as this coming Monday to make an offer, or as far away as February 8. Heck, the final season of Lost will have started at that point.
While the Bills play the waiting game, they need to be on the horn with currently available candidates, even if they're not overly interested in making offers. There are qualified men out there. Brian Billick is one. There are young, well-respected coordinators that likely wouldn't refuse even the opportunity to interview, such as Miami's Todd Bowles or Philadelphia's Sean McDermott. Sitting idly by waiting for your Plan B options to become available serves no purpose. Expanding your search process even by a name or two helps you make a better decision. It certainly can't hurt.
My top six
Since Dick Jauron's firing, I've gotten tens of emails from readers asking me which coaching candidate I preferred to see the Bills hire. Naturally, those types of emails have picked up a little steam over the last two weeks. I held off on answering the question in a public fashion for a while because of all the news breaking and the nature of the search; I'll finally go on record this morning.
Yeah, I fully expect to get some ribbing for this list. But I can only tell you what I believe, and this has been my list all along. One note: I never put any of the big names on my list (such as Shanahan, Cowher and Marty Schottenheimer) because, well, I'm not delusional. I never eliminated them, because we've seen crazier things happen, but I never entertained the notion that they were more than fantasy candidates. My list is, at least in my mind, much more realistic - and given the way things have played out, I feel pretty good about it.
1 - Leslie Frazier. Yes, seriously, Frazier has been at the top of my list since mid-November. I obviously didn't expect him to vault to the top of Buffalo's list in the fashion that he did, and if I lived in some Madden-like fantasy world, he obviously wouldn't have had the '1' next to his name. I consider him the best coordinator candidate available, for three big reasons: he's very well-respected around the league, he's worked for a large number of excellent coaches, and he knows what it means to build a football team from the ground up. The respect will help him build a quality coaching staff. The experience imbued elements of Tony Dungy, Marvin Lewis and Andy Reid into his coaching philosophies. He built the program at Trinity College up from scratch, winning two championships in the process. Temperament? His is good, but it's not overly important. Scheme? Results? He's done well in both, but again, not overly important. I'm a proponent of a coach as an overseer; a guy who lets his assistants coach and focuses on managing the situation. Frazier is that type of guy.
2 - Ron Rivera. Rivera has worked his way through the coaching ranks quicker than Frazier has, which necessarily gives him less experience. Unlike Frazier, he's never been top dog with any entity as a coach. But there are similarities - philosophically and in the way they handle players and earn their respect. Rivera's been successful everywhere he's gone, something that Frazier can't claim himself. As you might be able to tell, I prefer defensive head coaches, which is why Rivera ranked so highly on my initial list. As of this point, it doesn't appear that he'll get an interview in Buffalo, though that could change once San Diego completes its playoff run.
3 - Russ Grimm. Obviously, Grimm has a great reputation around the league as well, as a former player (and Hall of Fame candidate) and as one of the league's better offensive line coaches. It's telling that Grimm's coaching career has been marked by lengthy stints - first, he spent eight years in Washington, and then he spent a further seven in Pittsburgh under Bill Cowher. Now he's got three under his belt in Arizona. He's ready to be a head guy, though he's never done it before at any level. Yes, he's worked on offense his entire football career, but the guy isn't some offensive guru - I don't think he's ever even called plays. I view that as an advantage for him, because he won't be the Todd Haley or Josh McDaniels type in which he has to control every little detail from the get-go and ends up overwhelming himself. Grimm can delegate and motivate, and I think he'd be an excellent choice. Hopefully, his interest in Buffalo grows once Arizona's done playing.
4 - Todd Bowles. Bowles is quite easily the most inexperienced coach on this list NFL-wise, having been at this level since just 2005. He's a former player that, again, is well-respected around the league, and he's got an up-and-comer vibe about him, much like Perry Fewell does. Bowles has worked under one coaching tree his entire professional coaching career, working with Bill Parcells in Dallas before migrating to Miami under Tony Sparano (who, of course, was hired by Parcells and GM Jeff Ireland). Right now, he's Miami's assistant head coach and secondary coach, and one only needs to look at the rookie production of Sean Smith and Vontae Davis to understand how great of a teacher this guy is. I'm not sure he's ready to run the show anywhere; he certainly doesn't have the clout to really challenge decisions made from Buffalo's hierarchy. But he's an up-and-comer, and I think any up-and-comer is at least worth a long look in an interview.
5 - Brian Schottenheimer. Yes, I liked Schottenheimer, even though his reputation in New Jersey is less than stellar. I wrote about him last week and outlined the big reasons why he was on my list - his extensive work with outstanding quarterbacks, his creativity, and his youth, energy and potential. I think Schottenheimer has more potential than anyone on this list as a head guy. But I'm not sure that he's the type to delegate play-calling responsibilities, and as I mentioned referencing Haley and McDaniels, I'm not a fan of coaches that can't relinquish control of details to their assistants. Schottenheimer was a "prove it" guy for me - definitely worth an interview, but not necessarily the best choice. Obviously, this is now irrelevant, as Schottenheimer has decided to stay with the Jets.
6 - Winston Moss. He's number six on my list for a reason - I'm not completely enamored of the guy, obviously - but I thought he'd merit an interview in Buffalo. He played for 11 years with Tampa Bay, Oakland Los Angeles and Seattle, and he's been a coach in the league for 10 years, the last four as Green Bay's assistant head coach and inside linebackers coach. Players respect him, the league respects him, and he comes off as a delegator. But he's also the least proven of any of these coaches, and in no way am I disappointed that Buffalo's hasn't even sniffed in his direction.
266 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I wonder what would happen if Frazier declined the job? oh vey
Buffalo’s not looking too good right now if he does……..
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
stop
This is the sort of negative talk that is all over the place with all the talking heads on tv/radio. Frazier is not going to decline if offered the job. Schottenheimer gave his reasons for declining in his press time yesterday, and I think he declined for a number of reasons that had nothing to do with thinking this is a crap job (Ralph doesn’t want Marty; Brian is HAPPY with his situation which hasn’t been the case for 3 years; he’s young and feels he is in a great situation and isn’t ready to commit yet to a HC gig). People love making the lists with the names crossed off, but the reality is Shanny and Cowher are the only 2 who belong there. Billick has not been considered; Rivera, Grimm and whoever else is still in the playoffs want to focus on the PLAYOFFS, you know, the reason they coach in the first place. They know they will have an opporunity to interview when their team is done. Besides, neither guy has come out and said I’m not interviewing for the Bills job. We love reacting negatively to every littloe report that comes out. We’re like mini Schopp and Bulldogs. Let it play out and you’ll see this coaching search was thorough, patient, and the right way to go.
by jmkney on Jan 15, 2010 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol – I was just being hypothetical. not negative.
it is definately possible that he says no – if he does – how do our candidates look?
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Isn't that a legit question?
How do you know Frazier wouldn’t end up saying no?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Because he interviewed for the job immediately?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but you don’t put in so much effort into blowing the front office away just to say no.
Jesus, if that mouthy little f***er didn’t manage to get open so often I think I would have punched him in the face years ago. - Tom Brady on Wes Welker
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 15, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
but the question is....did we blow Frazier away?
Maybe he left impressed….maybe he left thinking, “No freaking way!” As we know from him declining to comment about the Rooney rule, he is not going to say publicly that the Bills are a mess.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
It couldn't happen?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yeah, maybe Frazier was as turned off by Nix, Brandon, Wilson and they were impressed with him. I doubt it would be the first time somebody ever interviewed for a job that they thought they wanted, until they met their new boss. Unlikely, but possible.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
It couldn’t happen in the same way that Cowher to Buffalo could happen.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Looks like Frazier is our guy. Lets just hope that he doesn’t turn down the job.
Jesus, if that mouthy little f***er didn’t manage to get open so often I think I would have punched him in the face years ago. - Tom Brady on Wes Welker
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 15, 2010 9:12 AM EST reply actions
Frazier
I am very comfortable with Frazier, particularly so after reading the information posted earlier this week re: Frazier and Singletary. From that, he sounds perfect for the Bills. I don’t have as good a feel for Grimm, but he is also very capable based on experience. Add a quality OC to spice up that side of the ball and it could be something special for the Bills. A couple of worthy possibilities for OC are Mark Trestman and Norm Chow. Both are excellent working with QBs and both have extensive OC experience.
Brian, I take it your not a fan of Jason Garrett or Jim Harbaugh?
Or do even these two guys qualify as “big names” that you would leave off of your list?
Just curious, was Charie Weis left off of your original list because he was a “big name” or you just didn’t like him as head coach for Buffalo?
Thanks in advance for your responses.
I think with Jim he would categorize it as fantasy, Jim just seems heck bent on winning a PAC-10 crown with Stanford before moving up
Then again, he could end up at a top 10 school at the country if Stanford wins a conference championship.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
Not fantasy, just not realistic. Like I said – I don’t think he’ll leave Stanford for the immediate future.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
I never really considered Harbaugh from the outset, because I never envisioned him leaving Stanford. I still don’t think he will.
I mentioned in the post that I’m not a fan of coaches that cling to details on game days; I can totally view Garrett as the type of coach who insists that he call plays, and not his coordinator. That drives me nuts. Weis was that guy at Notre Dame.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What if Buffalo could get Harbaugh, would he be on the list? Near the top? Just curious as I don’t think he’d leave Stanford either.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I’d still put him behind the first three guys on the list. I really like Frazier, Rivera and Grimm.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
RE: Jim Harbaugh not leaving Stanford
Not sure if your aware of this or not Brian, but you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take…..I think a famous paper company manager is credited with that one.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not taking a shot, though. I’m making a list for a blog. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Pete Carroll
I would have said the same thing about him, but he jumped to the NFL.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
Mariucci and Ferentz
I’m surprised we haven’t heard anything about these two.
Mariucci was a good coach in a bad spot, nobody would have been successful with that situation in Detroit.
Ferentz was on everyone’s list a year or two ago. He isn’t your average college coach, he has about 5 years experience coaching in the NFL.
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on.
Mariucci has been out of the league for four full years now. That’s even longer than Cowher, and without Cowher’s success. Blech.
Ferentz is a quality coach, but he’s turned down the NFL so frequently that no one really considers him anymore, and neither did I.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Mooch might end up with da Raiders anyhow
Unless Fassel gets it, he could reunite with JP! But still, blech to that whole group.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
excellent reasoning
on 1-3. B. Scott gave his reasons. 4,6 could be hired now, so, the more time that passes, the more unlikely it’s either of them.
Garrett is another possible “listee” (for me). However, the negative influence Phillips might have on that pick could kill it. I don’t think Wade left with a smile on his face.
I maintain our choice is “busy” at the moment and, as the road sign on the overseas highway to the Keys says, “Patience Pays”
"If you're happy, stay happy" - Mike Riley
I’d be happy with one of the following three: Grimm, Harbaugh, M. Schottenheimer. I lean towards Marty because I think the most important job of a head coach is hiring a staff…. and I think Marty will do the best job of that.
But look at Grimm, that guy looks very Buffalo.
and Sahlen’s hot dogs are so good, you want to eat them twice!:)
"If you're happy, stay happy" - Mike Riley
Grimm
The more I think about Grimm – the more I like the idea. I think he’d bring a physical, smash mouth identity along with him.
Can’t say I’m opposed to Frazier, but less sure what he exactly brings to the table.
I think Frazier is already the guy...
Which is O.K. with me but…let’s take our time and try them all, not just the first guy that interviews…no Saints fan EVER thought that Mike Mcarthy would make a good coach, but just look at Green Bay. Good article Brian, brought some new ones to my attention.
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Jan 15, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Why not Billick?
He won a Super Bowl, had an 80-64 record with the Ravens, 4 seasons with 10 wins or more, one at 8-8, but finished 1st or 2nd in 5 years in the Division.
Assistant coaches under Brian Billick that became NFL head coaches:
Jack Del Rio, Jacksonville Jaguars (2003–present)
Marvin Lewis, Cincinnati Bengals (2003–present)
Mike Nolan, San Francisco 49ers (2005–2008)
Rex Ryan, New York Jets (2009–present)
Mike Singletary, San Francisco 49ers (2008–present)
Mike Smith, Atlanta Falcons (2008–present)
One can only speculate that there is something major that OBD doesn’t like about him.
"If you're happy, stay happy" - Mike Riley
I think you’re right and let’s hope it’s not that the guy is head strong, confident, and willing to stand up for what he thinks is right. If that’s their problem then it’s BAU @ OBD—-Let’s get a yes man that won’t question Ralph. Hopefully their dislike involves something else.
by radan on Jan 15, 2010 11:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
On Wednesday morning Brian Billick was a guest on WFAN NY and I was lucky enough to be in the car during the interview. When asked “When will you be hired as the HC for the Buffalo Bills?” He simply put it that the team wants to go in the direction of a hot coordinator. The way he spoke of it made me think that he was a little disappointed that he wasn’t offered an interview.
I think he is worth an interview and I would be happy if they hired him. Personally, I am a huge fan of Harbaugh in Stanford. When there is a coaching pedigree it seems that the sons are always top notch and never disappointing. I think he is a perfect guy to take over a crumbled team. His expectations would be low and that helps his cause. If a guy like Cowher takes the job, it is my belief that most fans would be expecting playoffs within 2 years. This isn’t the case and a guy like Harbaugh can come in rebuild and form a structure with a good culture.
by BillsfanDan on Jan 15, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Which is ironic because early on in the process, didn’t we hear rumblings of getting a coach with “head coaching experience”?
I don’t know. Did Nix ever say “head coaching experience” or did he just say “experience”. Cause guys like Grimm and Frazier have lots of experience coaching. I never like to read into comments like that because you never what the guy really meant to say.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
you would have to think he meant “head coaching experience.” I mean you wouldn’t want to hire a coach with no “experience.” If that’s the case, shoot, I’ll throw my hat in there for an interview.
Coaches can have experience without having NFL head coaching experience. Leslie Frazier was the HC at Trinity College for 8 years and has been coaching for over 20 years. That’s pretty different from somebody like Brian Schottenheimer who has 10 years of coaching experience. One guy has worked for two NFL head coaches, one of which was his father while Frazier has worked for 4 different guys, two of which have been to a Super Bowl.
That wasn’t really my point though, my issue with reading into comments like that is the assumption that there is any meaning to them whatsoever. It amazes me to see the conclusions that people jump to based off one line from a 20 minute press conference where a guy like Nix isn’t exactly taking his time to delicately word his answers. He got asked a whole lot of questions and while talking about what is important in a head coach, he said “experience”. So what? Why did everybody then assume that Nix would hire a proven head coach? I think comments like that are said to be thrown away. It’s an obvious and largely thoughtless answer. Same with the QB with the strong arm comment. Really, our GM thinks that a QB with a strong arm would do better than a QB with a weak arm while playing in Buffalo? Groundbreaking. Without knowing what Nix considers to be a strong arm, that comment is completely meaningless. Sorry for the rant and I don’t mean to direct a tangent like this at you or anybody, it’s just something that’s been on my mind since the Nix press conference. I think that common sense could tell us that Buffalo would prefer a coach with some experience or that Buffalo would rather have a QB with a strong arm. But we just don’t know what they think experience is and what they think a strong arm is, how much they meant those comments, whether or not they worded them in the exact way they meant them or whether they put any thought into the answer whatsoever. It all seems like a pretty big leap to me.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I am in agreement with you
My comment was half what it looks like and half facetious.
I agree with you that what is said is often taken to great lengths. And who is to say the guy can just not do what he says he’s going to do. If he interviews two guys and likes one of them it doesn’t matter what he said initially in a press conference. Same with the QB.
I can see what he said coming into question if he was adamant about a coach that has been a head coach before. But I don’t even remember what he said to be honest.
by BillsfanDan on Jan 17, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
+1
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 15, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
My #1 is Rivera – I just like the way he goes about his business and the way he coaches. The other 2 (Frazier and Grimm) I wouldnt been opposed to if we end up getting them but I would at least like OBD to interview Rivera.
"Be a wuss at home! Be a man on Rumblings!" - Kurupt
I like Billick too. Any thoughts?
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Jan 15, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
see above post
was writing it while you posted
by BillsfanDan on Jan 15, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
I am a fan Grimm/Frazier from what I know about them, I also think they would really bring an aggressive attitude to both lines that I think everyone from Buffalo would like to see.
I really don’t know much about Rivera, so I can’t weigh in on him
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
Thanks
Maybe Billick knows something we don’t…like Frazier is already hired…
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Jan 15, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
ill be fine with fraizer
but do think hell be able to get good coordinators and assistant coaches?
Maybe Billick knows something we don’t, like Frazier is already hired…
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Jan 15, 2010 10:35 AM EST reply actions
oops, still slow posting, should see me drive a stick…
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Jan 15, 2010 10:39 AM EST reply actions
My top 3
Grimm, Riveria then Frazier, I would not be upset by any one of them. I do agree the Bills should be interviewing candidates right now, just to cover themselves and do some due diligence. But this is the team that hired Nix without talking to anyone outside their doors, although I think Nix is a good hire.
To bad there was no way keep April happy, but I guess an overhaul is an overhaul.
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Jan 15, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Has Harbough Said No?
He’s my first choice. I know he’s a college coach (who’s been successful in two places), but he’s played in the league and he was manly. He’s well respected, well connected, and could build a good staff. He’s a fighter and a winner. I could see him, Kelly, Thurman and company really doing a recruiting job to get good coaches.
My second choice is Marty.
yeah the guy who won a coin toss in OT and chose to kick? So he could take the wind.......
No thanks.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
what stats prove that?
What about the stat that says the team that wins the coin toss and takes the ball wins 60% of its games?
The competition committee has a great grasp of the situation. It knows that the numbers say something needs to be changed. There has been a rise in the percentage of teams that win the coin toss winning games. That percentage went from 55.9 during 1994-97 to 64.6 for the next four seasons. And after it dropped to 60 percent for 2002-05, it went up to 63.6 last season.
I got that info from here
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don't have the data
This is what the magazine article said. I got it here, but you might need to be an “Insider” to read it.
The same strategic mastermind who once won an overtime coin toss and elected to kick off. (Sounds ridiculous, but reams of convincing data prove otherwise.)
And also this:
After winning the overtime coin toss, Mornhinweg elected to kick off, thinking he wanted the stiff, 17 mph wind at his kicker’s back. Gridiron math geeks have since backed Mornhinweg’s decision, but the Lions lost the game.
The simple coin toss metric doesn’t work, because the winds are a confounding factor.
and the 60% success rate of team winning when they have the ball first isnt a confounding factor?
Shouldnt that be the number 1 factor?
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
No
A success rate is not a confounding factor. It’s not a factor at all. It’s the result obtained when calculating the expected outcomes based on the factors.
The 60% success rate is all attempts. Obviously the team that has the ball first loses 40% of the time. When you factor in variables such as wind speed and direction, home/away, teams’ offensive/defensive strength, etc., you will know the probably of your success based on the existing factors at the time. The 60% figures is actually pretty useless when you think about it, because if you don’t account for all factors, you’re making a bad or at least uninformed choice.
Think about it. You win the toss, you keep the ball, they get the wind. Wind-aided kickoff puts you back to your goal line (or if youre lucky, you get a touchback). Your passes into the wind are futile. You run the ball but you can’t get close enough for a field goal into the wind. All of a sudden you’re kicking into the wind (possibly from your own territory), and because of the wind, your punt goes what, 10, maybe 20 yards? They get the ball and a wind-aided kick through the goalposts.
All I’m saying is the 60% number doesn’t tell the whole story. Number crunchers crunched the numbers and concluded that, as a matter of statistics, Morninwheg made the right decision.
Morninwheg made the right decision.
And yet the guy was chastized and fired…….mainly because of that decision…..and hasnt gotten another shot since then…..
You think he would make that same decision again?
I dont.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
??
Yeah, just like everybody was all over Bellicheck for 4th and 2. Lots of people have mouths, doesn’t mean they know what they’re talking about.
Do I think he would do it again? I honestly don’t have any idea. My only point was that the decision shouldn’t cost him a HC job now, 8 years later.
But since you asked, if I was interviewing and I asked him if he would do it again, and he said “Yes, because it was the right decision,” I would hire him. If he said “No, because of all the heat I got.” I’d thank him and send him on his way. Cuz that’s balls, and that’s what we need. And it also shows that he considers all the info, not just so meaningless trope like “always take the ball in OT!”
its not meaningless.....
but whatever.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I whole heartedly disagree
with the categorizing of those of us who believed – and still do – that Bill Cowher is a potential candidate as “delusional” or “fantasy” as you put it. Just because we disagree with you doesn’t make us delusional or “unrealistic”.
Quite frankly, the only candidate I like on your list is Russ Grimm, and if the Bills give up on Plan A to go with Plan C as you put it then we deserve to be losers. You never give up on Plan A until the process is over. I hope the Bills aren’t as “realistic” as you and keep fighting to convince Cowher to come. The majority of the options you list are less than appealing.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
by poz on Jan 15, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
that also came off harsher than I meant.
I’m not attacking Brian’s list as much as I am attacking the Bills if they have in fact given up on Plan A AND Plan B
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I have to agree with this.
I just can’t lower my original expectations, even if some people classify that as being unrealistic.
It apparantly wasn’t unrealistic for Seattle to inquire of Pete Carroll, even though NFL teams have been interested in him for years and he would never be interested.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
if this team gives up on Plan A
after 12 days then we deserve to be in the cellar of the AFC East for another decade.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
And when I see comments on here that start with phrases such as:
- The more I think about (insert Plan B candidate here) the more I like the idea….
- (Insert Plan B candidate here) is really starting to grow on me….
- I must admit I wasn’t too high on hiring (insert Plan B candidate here) at first, but I’m starting to come around…
and my favorite:
- Right now, I just want this search to end with (insert Plan B candidate here) as our HC, so we can move forward.
I just can’t help but think that we are just lowering our expectations due to the situation. I’m a big believer in the thinking “go with your gut” or “don’t ever change your 1st answer on a test” because your first instinct is usually right. I can’t speak for everyone, but this HC search is very much going against my first insticts.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you!
I just can’t help but think that we are just lowering our expectations due to the situation.
My god, I’m glad someone else said it! It is unbearable for me to watch everyone around here do what they always do, grudgingly convince themselves that the Bills made the "right" move so that they can avoid the emotional anguish of failed expectations.
It happened when we hired Gregg Williams and again when we hired Mike Mularkey. I’ve seen it happen when we hired Dick Jauron. More recently, I’ve seen it happen when we “promoted” Turk Schonert as offensive coordinator (while not even interviewing an outside candidate) or traded away our all pro left tackle (instead of playing hard ball with a guy that had two years left on his contract). And it’s happening again. Buffalo fans always find a way to convince themselves that it was the "right" move and that the team will be better for it.
I think it stems from a lack of confidence as a franchise and a city. In an inferiority complex. Yes, Buffalo isn’t on the top 100 (or maybe top 1000) places people want to visit, but it’s a good place and us fans need to stop discounting our expectations because we don’t think we can get (or deserve) anything better.
Until we change our mentality, nothing else will change. The team will continue to hire second-rate head coaches and make excuses whey they can’t go after top talent in free agency.
Until we change our mentality, the Bills will remain punch-line in the NFL.
Buffalo has one of 32 franchises in the premiere sports league in the world. As fans, we must stop acting like we don’t belong. We must hold our team (and owner) to the same expectations as fans of the other 31 clubs. Until that happens, nothing will change.
John I.
by jri111 on Jan 15, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Recommended reading, gentlemen.
I guess it’s me, Poz and jri111 against the world in trying to uphold some sort of minimum expectations, as the paying customers of a product.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
yea I'm rec'ing this too
it really is a very good read.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I just kicked that rec buttons ass
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
hahaha
that line is a potential new sig candidate. I need to think it through before commiting though. Great line!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Until we change our mentality, the Bills will remain punch-line in the NFL.
Actually, that has less than zero to do with it. The only way the Bills will avoid being the punch line of the NFL is if they start winning. We, and our mentality, have absolutely nothing to do with that.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
well i think
being able to win stems from a mentality of being a winner, something we clearly dont have.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I absolutely agree, but again, the “mentality of being a winner” has nothing to do with the fan base. That comes from Buddy Nix and whoever the next head coach is, permeates to the players, and then seeps into the fan base when the team starts producing.
Seriously – it seems like you guys are arguing that crossing our fingers and praying for Bill Cowher, and then being pissy when he doesn’t want to work here, is the best way to turn around the franchise.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
what?
it seems like you guys are arguing that crossing our fingers and praying for Bill Cowher, and then being pissy when he doesn’t want to work here, is the best way to turn around the franchise.
Our whole arguement is for not just crossing your fingers but actively and aggresively continuing to woo him. And we arent being pissy if he says no, we will be pissy if he says no and then we immediately go to Plan C. As after 12 days of job searching, you seemed to imply by saying the Bills need to turn to Plan C
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Exactly. Get creative, do whatever needs to be done, but get the guy you ultimately want.
Offer a piece of the franchise?
I could be in the minority, but when I heard the rumor that Ralph was going to offer a piece of the franchise to Shanahan, I was pumped. Ralph seemingly had identified the guy he wanted and was willing to do anything to get it done.
Make a trade for a coach?
Tampa did and they won a Super Bowl with Gruden. They did this because Bill Parcells turned them down and they didn’t like the available candidates. per wikipedia. (I will leave off the part about their record in years after that.)
Make a “godfather” offer. (an offer they can’t refuse). Blow him away with a huge contract.
If I knew Ralph had identified a guy or two that they needed to have, and seemingly did everything in their control to make it happen and it still didn’t work, well, then my focus is put on how did we get to this place where we are so undesirable. But I just don’t think I can believe One Bills Drive has done everything they can to get the guys they really want. My opinion.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
you seemed to imply by saying the Bills need to turn to Plan C
LOL, well, I’ve told you what my implications were, yet the debate rages on. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
the joys of internet journalism, no? hahahaha
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Also – I don’t consider my omitting names from my list “lowering expectations.” That’s not it at all. I look at it as a firm grasp of the reality that right now, the Buffalo Bills are not a desirable organization. No amount of happy feeling is going to change that.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You are dead on today Brian....rec'd again
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Agreed, Brian nailed it here
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
Rainbows and gumdrops
That’s all the Bills need to get the coach of our dreams
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It does when you unconditionally support a team
Bills fans are loyal to a fault. We sell out every game. We always rally to the team’s defense. We accept whatever the organization puts out there as a product – no matter how crappy it is.
I honestly do believe that this off-season the Bills made every effort possible to land a big-time head coach and I don’t fault them for that. That’s what they should always try to do. The problem is, for too long (at least the last decade), this team has settled for less than desirable talent (whether it’s coaching or players) and the fans went along with it. That’s how the “desirability” of this organization went into the basement.
For too long we let the team get by on the cheap. We gave coaches like Dick Jauron second and third chances they didn’t deserve. For too long we supported the moves made by this franchise by opening our wallets and sitting our butts in bleachers.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like a decade of settling can be undone in one off-season, but this can be a start. Just because this team struck out with the Cowher’s and Shotty’s this time around, doesn’t mean they should become gun shy when looking for talent in the future – whether it be coaches or players.
The point I was trying to make, and I don’t want to lose site of it, is that we are already seeing signs of a fan base that will again make themselves content with the new Bills coach – no matter how undesirable they truly find him. Fans will get excited about the 2010, season tickets will continue to sell and we will ultimately find ourselves back here 3-4 years later.
Two take away points:
1. Regardless of the effect it has on the organization, we fans should not be regulated to settling for anything less than the best. That’s a loser’s mentality and I see it far too often in Bills fans.
2. The mentality of the fans does matter to the organization, because in the end, we are the ones who hold them accountable with our pocketbooks. If we continue to support a sub-standard product, then we implicitly approve the moves made by Ralph and Co.
John I.
I’ll address your take away points.
Regardless of the effect it has on the organization, we fans should not be regulated to settling for anything less than the best. That’s a loser’s mentality and I see it far too often in Bills fans.
Think of it, then, as me not making a list based on “holy crap, how cool would it be if we got this guy?” but rather "these are the guys that I think can, should, and will be contenders for the job – and there’s nothing wrong with that.
The mentality of the fans does matter to the organization, because in the end, we are the ones who hold them accountable with our pocketbooks. If we continue to support a sub-standard product, then we implicitly approve the moves made by Ralph and Co.
I think the whole “we fill the seats, we foot the bill, we can always pull our support” gag gets overplayed, though it certainly doesn’t lack merit. And sorry, but if we go to a game and boo the crap out of the team, I think the organization would get it. Ralph Wilson did cancel a ring ceremony this year, if you recall.
And honestly, I don’t see how having a backup plan or trying to inject a little realism of the situation – not a mentality – is even applicable to this post.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Brian, looking back, what would you consider the great series of articles
you guys did on the up and coming GM candidates like Eric DeCosta before the Bills didn’t interview anyone and hired Buddy Nix?
Would you now consider that list a “holy crap, how cool would it be if we got this guy” list? Or a “these are the guys that I think can, should, and will be contenders for the job”?
And if you considered those guys as real contenders for the position, than were you discouraged that the Bills seemingly did not interview any of them?
By the way, you do a great job here and thanks for the thoughtful responses. You always make me think, even if I don’t necessarily change my opinion.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you can compare the GM and HC thing, because the only time I can recall a hire-from-within becoming head coach in Buffalo is when Wade took over for Marv when Marv retired. They’ve always looked around for coaches; that’s nowhere near the truth in the front office. The team has longevity in exhibiting different behaviors in each realm.
And if you considered those guys as real contenders for the position, than were you discouraged that the Bills seemingly did not interview any of them?
Yes and no. Yes, because my ego would have loved the stroke job of seeing them run down my own list, and no, because I planned on eventually writing a Buddy Nix article for that series.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't make a comparison between HC and GM thing
I just wanted to know, if looking back, what you would consider GM candidates like Eric DeCosta. I thought they were legitimate candidates, and would not fault you for saying they were realistic possibilities.
But the fact that you mentioned they usually never hire GM candidates from outside…does that mean you now don’t think it was realistic to hope for Eric DeCosta to get an interview?
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
They have talked to people outside the organization before. I fully expected them to pick a name or two from outside again. I would not have put DeCosta on that list, but then again, I didn’t write that article – Matt did. ;)
My thought process was that they’d look at three guys – Nix, Modrak and Marc Ross (NYG). All have ties with the organization, Ralph knows them all, and then I expected them to go with one of those guys.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Man that bus really hurt…..
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Ahhh pansy, its just a couple of tire treads up your back
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
yes this.......
rec’d
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Well said....glad I read before posting.....my response wasn't as diplomatic :-) Rec'd
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
I disagree
Jri- this isn’t the SNL “Jeter, you suck!” response. But I don’t agree with what you wrote.
I happen to agree with Brian…. and Peter King…. and Buddy Nix… that we aren’t a lost cause and that good can and will come out of this.
I agree that we’ve made a string of bad decisions. I also happen to believe the placement of a knowledgable personnel guy (Nix) into a position of responsibility was the right move. Nix’s track record with the Chargers indicates that he will make more good decisions than bad. I also happen to believe that taking time with this process is more advisable than going fast and getting the wrong guy.
I think it stems from a lack of confidence as a franchise and a city. In an inferiority complex. Yes, Buffalo isn’t on the top 100 (or maybe top 1000) places people want to visit, but it’s a good place and us fans need to stop discounting our expectations because we don’t think we can get (or deserve) anything better.
Until we change our mentality, nothing else will change. The team will continue to hire second-rate head coaches and make excuses whey they can’t go after top talent in free agency.
My opinions do not stem from any of this. I haven’t lived in Buffalo for over a decade. I’ve spent less than six months visiting the city in that time. So my opinions suffer from the inferiority complex that Buffalo inhabitants have?
My job is a bit unlike most of the other posters. I’m an Army officer; a combat Soldier (reconnaissance). Not to sound like the guy from Transformers, but I don’t lose. We can’t, ever. And to do so, our standards are unbelieveable high. Google what reconnaissance Soldiers do in the Army and you’ll understand.
So I’m to believe that my “lack of confidence,” or “mentality of accepting failure” results in my opinion? BS. My opinions come from observing, analyzing, and forming opinions based on common sense (I hope!).
And, last I checked, winning had nothing to do with the mentality of the fans. Jets fans have a terrible attitude and expect failure. How are they in the playoffs? Eagles fans are negatively critical of almost every decision the team makes. They’ve been one of the more successful franchises the past decade.
Jri: I hope you don’t take this as a personal attack. But I can’t agree with your thoughts here for a nanosecond.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 15, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
first
thanks for your service.
Second, I disagree with your response. His point wasnt that we individually have loser mentality’s, I promise you that I do not. But as a collective fanbase we do. And if you don’t want to accept that its fine because I won’t accept it either. At least until we sign Todd Bowles to be our next coach. Then I will be forced to.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Apples and Oranges
First, thanks. Much appreciated.
I think the comment is apples and oranges. Does the collective fanbase suffer from some sort of inferiority complex? I have no idea.
But you can’t use that to smack down someone’s thoughts that what’s going on right now is OK. I think what’s going on now is OK and people need to relax and take the long-view approach. That can’t be countered with the “inferiority” argument.
i hope i wasnt coming across
as smacking down anybodys thoughts. I’m just disagreeing and making that known. It was never my intention to come across as smacking down any opinion thats different than mine. I just strongly believe moving to Plan C at this stage would be very, very wrong
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
No worries
Bad word choice. But here’s the jist:
Person A: I think the Rivera, Frazier, and Grimm are good HC choices. They compare favorably with the ESPN 50/5 criteria. Grimm is a great personality and culture chaing type choice. Frazier would be a Dungy type. Both are good choice.
Person B: Why are you lowering your standards?
Doesn’t make sense.
sure it does
this article states we need to move plan C, is that not lowering standards a tad too quick? I see it more as
Person A: we need to move third tier candidates
Person B: no, we need to maintain our focus on first tier candidates.
Doesn’t that make sense? You stated above that your job requires you to never lose. Isn’t that what the Bills should be thinking here instead of moving to Plan C?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
LOL. But I already told you that I didn’t say we should abandon Plan B.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
true true true
but moving to Plan C will divert resources and time and ultimately, focus, from nailing a top tier guy. If they open that door the temptation to save money may be too great for Russ or Ralph to ignore.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
moving to planC while not abanding plan B that is.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
abandoning. yeesh, im off today.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
that sounds like a Raph is cheap comment?
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
maybe not so much cheap – but…
a) plays things a little close to the vest
b) might – just maybe – have lost his football touch
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Joe are you trying to get me killed??!
hahahahah, im already taking enough heat right now!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Whhhaaaaaaa......I didn't type it :-)
Take the heat like a man……don’t be a Shotty ;-)
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Take the heat like a man
life will have it’s way….with your pride son. – take it like a man.
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
GOLD STAR JOE!!!!!
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
not a bad album huh? definately different than Tool – but i dig it for sure.
if you like progressive music – definately check out peeping tom.
Patton’s got 2 beat boxs, a violinest, keyboardist, 2/3 guitarists. he’s nasty
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I won't pretend to be a big fan :-)
I just happen to hear that song come up in conversation recently.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
How?
Divert resources? Moss and Bowles are hanging out at home, while Grimm and Rivera are coaching. While they are waiting for the playoffs, how can it possibly hurt to interview other guys?
Or even make a call to gauge their interest in the job?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
if they are throwing phone calls around to less than stellar candidates those guys who are on the Plan C list will obviously want to become a hotter name and move up the B list, therefore they just slip a little note to Adam Schefter that the Bills contacted him and voila! The Bills reputation continues to plummet as our rumors have descended from Bill Cowher meetings to phone calls to C-rate candidates.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
It's not about lower standards
My not losing analogy wasn’t a direct comparison to how I view the Bills. Teams lose, it’s football. My point was the part right after, in which I stated that I have high standards. I wrote a fan post about how I didn’t think Jauron met the standards of the head coaching job.
I’ve said that I wanted an experienced head coach that has a winning track record. If we consider coordinators, I want someone woh compares favorably with 50/5, has a winning track record, and can change the culture.
Being OK with Rivera, Grimm, and Frazier is pretty consistent with that, and does not represent a lowering of standards.
Brian is simply trying to say that we’ve exhausted the A list (head coaches with winning track records), we’re still considering the B-listers (coordinators). Let’s not limit ourselves- start looking at the C-list.
It doesn’t represent a lowering of standards. We’ve still got the B-list wide open, we’re just waiting on playoff games to be decided.
Lower standards = not getting your A list and moving on to the next best thing.
No? Isn’t that the very definition of lowering standards? The “standard” is the A list. And we are hiring from a level below that. Thus, we are going below our standard?
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Washington's A list was Shanahan. Seattle's A list was Carroll.
They went after guy and got him. They did not have to go to a lower level list.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
BINGO!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Standards
Gents, you’re understanding of standards is way off.
Websters: something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality.
Synonymn: criteria.
It is not a list!!!! It is a set of criteria applied, in this case, to the list of candidates.
my friend
there are 17 definitions for the word standard. Two of which are:
“a rule or principle that is used as a basis for judgment” and “an average or normal requirement, quality, quantity, level, grade, etc.”
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Which doesn't fit the current debate
We are also not talking about flags from the Middle Ages.
We are talking about criteria for who we want to be the new head coach.
Again, our "lower standard" argument may not apply to Der Jaeger
or anyone else who originally thought they would rather hire Frazier, Rivera, etc over guys like Shanahan or Cowher.
But lower standards does apply to the Bills, since they made substantial attempts to hire Shanahan and Cowher, and have been denied, thus forcing them to pick from a “lesser” pool.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't want the three coordinators over Shanahan or Cowher
Shanahan and Cowher met criteria but declined.
Exactly, why is it bad to have backup plans?
If your a business man, would you not want to have something else up your sleeve if lets say one supplier refuses to play ball with you? Wouldn’t you have his rival on the OTHER speed dial button to drive a dagger into his opponents heart when you call him?
I don’t see the issue here.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
That is not a standard
Here’s how it goes:
We have two options:
Option A, which is a former head coach. Our standard for that option is someone who has a winning track record and can change the culture.
This does things like count out folks like Jauron, who hasn’t won, and Martz, who will create a bad culture.
Option B: A hot coordinator. The standard is the 50/5 comparison, and someone who will change the culture favorably.
According to that standard, we took shots at Gruden, Cowher, and Shanahan. They declined. We still have other options, but they have to meet our standards.
Your "standard: is like saying that the Colts are lwoering their standards because they aren’t picking the best players every year.
Your "standard: is like saying that the Colts are lwoering their standards because they aren’t picking the best players every year.
Not at all a comparison.
He is stating, factually, that the Redskins and Seahawks had job openings after ours and they have already been filled by the A standard guys they wanted. We on the other hand, fired Jauron mid-season and are now talking of looking at Plan C guys. What does that have to do with Colts and players. Its a fact and its true.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
How is this different from drafting
We start with a list of 300 guys. We apply a a standard that ranks them 1-300.
We then apply a second standard for scheme fits, character, and injury. We re-order and now have 1-175.
The same with the coaches. Here’s the December list:
Shanahan
Gruden
Cowher
Frazier
B. Schottenheimer
Rivera
Garrett
Grimm
Billick
Martz
Fewell
Haslett
We apply our standard (successful HC, 50/5 coordinator, both meeting culture change criteria).
We cross of Martz for culture, Fewell for 50/5, Haslett for success as a HC (Fewell and Haslett take jobs elsewhere anyway).
Now our list is:
Shanahan
Gruden
Cowher
Frazier
B.Schottenheimer
Rivera
Garrett
Grimm
Billick
We start to work down the list:
Gruden, Cowher, B.Schottenheimer decline. Frazier interviews. Shanahan interviews but declines. Grimm and Rivera defer to after the playoffs.
Now our list is:
Frazier
Rivera
Garrett
Grimm
Billick
While waiting for the playoffs, we add to our list to keep options open. All additions need to continue to meet the standards set originally.
That’s all Brian is saying. How do we know that this isn’t what the Bills are doing? Wouldn’t you? What history shows that Nix isn’t doing this? Nix hasn’t been a part of the past decade’s train wreck, so you can’t say we did it in the past.
Maybe everyone is susceptable to WGR, Florio and Clayton. : )
by Der Jaeger on Jan 15, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe everyone is susceptable to WGR, Florio and Clayton. : )
haha, come on!
Still doesn’t change the fact that we are not convincing the guys who declined to come. Either Buffalo stinks as a destination this badly or we do something very wrong in our negotiations that Seattle, Washington and 31 other teams don’t do.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Convincing guys to come
Is far different than lowering standards.
I know it’s word play, but it matters.
BTW, no offense to JRI, but for me to think that the bulk of Bills fans (including all of you) really can be influenced that Buffalo is inferior is hard to believe. We’re far better than that.
I am betting on option A.....and it is a combo of the owner and the city....mostly the owner
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Not sure the draft is the best example
In the draft not everyone has the ability to get the top guys. You aren’t lowering your standards because you pick 2nd and your guy is taken 1st. You have no control over that.
Our head coaching position, in theory, is equal to the other 31 team’s head coaching positions. There are no limits on what you can offer a coach, either. The playing field is level. We have identified the guys we think would best fit our opening, and we still cannot get them. In fact, Washington comes in and offers less money and steals one away. Thus, we need to move to a lower tier of prospects.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Draft example in terms or ordering a board
Like I said above, there is a huge difference between coaches not taking the offer, and lowering standards.
Tony Sparano wasn’t a real popular name, but he met Parcells’ standards and was hired.
So long as we have a set standard, and hire someone who meets that standard, the “who” doesn’t matter.
Sometimes you have to look in the mirror and be honest
The Bills went after the “hot chicks” and got shut down. Now, they will have to go after someone in there league. Doesn’t mean you won’t be better off in the long run.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
So we won't get the "10" at the bar, then again she may be bad in bed after we get her home
If we get the 7 or 8 and the sex is amazing, then who gives a crap?
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
can you two refrain
from referring to our future head coach as a woman we are tying to take home from the bar. Its kind of…..well, its just another scary detour into the mind of Joe P.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Sorry, but your gonna have to live with that pal, we need some sort of "release"
Ok, that was creepy even for me or Joe P.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
This is not on me....I was using the analogy and did not bring up the "s" word
The fact that you guys are afraid you might have feelings for our next HC, who apparently is also a cross-dresser is all on you guys :-)
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
I can deal with that then.
If you thought this whole time, that Rivera, Frazier and Grimm were the best candidates for the job, well then you are not lowering your expectations at all. Your getting what you wanted.
But then I disagree with you about who is the best candidate for the position.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't think that
My personal criteria has been an experienced HC or a coordinator who fared well with the 50/5 comparison. I also wanted a culture changing type of coach. Someone who has won.
Under my personal criteria, I have no issues with Frazier, Grimm, or Rivera. They are all good fits.
Agreed
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
I just strongly believe moving to Plan C at this stage would be very, very wrong
I concur
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
thanks bro!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
dude – I see this hiring as going to be worse than both the DJ hiring and extension. I have absolutely zero faith in anyone in the front office to not, somehow, screw the pooch on this one.
we’ll end up with the 2nd DB coach of the lions some how (yes hyperbole)
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Good idea
screw the pooch on this one.
Maybe Mike Vick will take the HC job :-)
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
I guess better to screw the pooch than….. ahh i’ll leave that one alone
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHAHA brilliant comedy gentlemen!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
oh no!
now that you said it we’re all going to think it You may be right. You may unfortunately be right that we accept a worse candidate than DJ was.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
at what point do the Bills consider Billick?
I mean – if everyone and their mother shoots them down – would they go after a guy they really didn’t want?
he’d be better than a lot of guys for one
but then again – would he want the job by default if it were offered to him?
I honestly can’t beleive they haven’t even contacted him to see if he’s interested – maybe they did though…….
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
When the Bill's ball boy says he doesn't want the job either :-)
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
didn’t they fire everyone though? who knows if the ball boy is even on the team anymore!
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Jan 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Not having a Plan C and pursuing it at the same time as plan A and B would be wrong
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
My opinions do not stem from any of this. I haven’t lived in Buffalo for over a decade. I’ve spent less than six months visiting the city in that time. So my opinions suffer from the inferiority complex that Buffalo inhabitants have?
I have never lived in Buffalo. Born and raised in Rochester and got out of there as soon as I had the chance. The inferiority complex is not just regulated to residents of Buffalo, but to team. It spreads to fans all over the world. Maybe it’s because they lost four Super Bowls in a row, maybe it’s because ESPN and every other sports outlets tells us that the Bills are less desirable than other organizations, whatever the reason is, it’s there.
As StroudFanClub stated, how many times have you seen a sentence start like this over the last couple of days: “(Insert Plan B candidate here) is really starting to grow on me….”. That’s what we’re talking about here. For a second, let’s just say fan mentality doesn’t have anything to do w/ actions taken by a team (which I disagree with – see my other response above). The deeper point is, we as Bills fans convince ourselves, time and time again that this team did right thing.
A little over a year ago Brain and others were on here saying that the Bills did the right thing by keeping Dick Jauron. The pathetic rationale that time: continuity.
A few months later Brian and others were on here saying that the Bills did the right thing by promoting Schonert instead of looking for outside talent. The rationale this time: You betcha, continuity… this time for Trent Edwards.
After that it was Peters. The rationale there: He would have been a distraction.
The point is, every single time this franchise makes a move that is not what we originally wanted we find a way to convince ourselves that it was a good move. Well it’s not. Those moves weren’t good for the organization and neither will be hiring “Plan C” type coach.
There is nothing wrong with coming up with a Plan C. There is everything wrong with lying to ourselves that we would be happy and content with a Plan C coach.
John I.
by jri111 on Jan 15, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d like to think I’ve earned a little more credit for my opinions than I just wallow all the time in Bills depression state, anxiously awaiting the next failure that I can pawn off as a good move.
I still believe that keeping Dick Jauron in December ’08 was the right move, by the way.
I still believe that continuity for Edwards (i.e. Schonert) was a great idea at the time, mostly because I mistakenly believed that Edwards had what it takes to succeed in this league.
I still believe that trading Peters was a good move – because if you can’t sign the guy, it’s better to get value than let him be a lame duck.
There is nothing wrong with coming up with a Plan C. There is everything wrong with lying to ourselves that we would be happy and content with a Plan C coach.
Did I subconsciously try to sway everyone’s opinion that any of the six guys above would make everyone happy or something?
I really, really can’t understand where this argument came from. I guess next time I make a coaching list I’ll start with every phenomenal name I can think of. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really, really can’t understand where this argument came from. I guess next time I make a coaching list I’ll start with every phenomenal name I can think of. :)
I don’t think you should do anything differently. I think this is the most interesting conversation I’ve seen on this board in awhile.
I think your list would be compiled exactly the same as the majority of Bills fans at this point….are a few of us are trying to argue against the logic, that’s all.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you should do anything differently. I think this is the most interesting conversation I’ve seen on this board in awhile.
Yup, this is why Brian is the only blogger I follow. And I do so religiously. Great thread we have going here.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Yup, this is why Brian is the only blogger I follow. And I do so religiously. Great thread we have going here.
I’ll second that. In fact, I can’t stop myself from posting right now even if I tried. Great website.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Did I subconsciously try to sway everyone’s opinion that any of the six guys above would make everyone happy or something?
I really, really can’t understand where this argument came from. I guess next time I make a coaching list I’ll start with every phenomenal name I can think of. :)
I don’t think it came entirely from your list as it just spawned out of conversation. Those “I’m starting to really like candidate X” comments that got me annoyed. StroudFan mentioning them gave me all the motivation I needed.
Again, it’s not the creating of the list that is a problem, it’s the overall feel of the comment section that ‘yeah, I think coach x from this list will be the diamond in the rough we are looking for." I just don’t buy it.
John I.
by jri111 on Jan 15, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You knew your list was going to ruffle some feathers though right?
Or you wouldn’t have added, “Yeah, I fully expect to get some ribbing for this list.”
I don’t think I’m even being that harsh about it either. When I first read that list I was going to make some wisecracks like:
Well Brian, that’s a really ambitious list you have there….what is your goal for today, keep breathing?
But I thought better of posting such nonsense….opps…..haha
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I figured the names, or lack thereof, of some of the other coordinator candidates (like Garrett) would ruffle feathers.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Besides, did anyone see Peters have one of his 6 down games against the Cowboys
Gosh that was fun to see him just get abused by Ware, glad Philly spent that money….
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
Disagree again
If the national media talking poorly about the Bills makes people think they have an inferiority complex, then they need to go get checked out. I work in an environment with fans from everywhere and every team. My boss is a Steelers fan, and I jaw with him all the time, never backing down. And that’s with listening to ESPN Radio every morning.
So this spreading inferiority comlpex hasn’t effected me, and they don’t cloud my opinions.
Yes, I said that Frazier was growing on me. First, I said a couple times that he was qualified, using the ESPN 50/5 comparison as the basis. I also said that Rivera compared well. I haven’t checked, but knowing who Grimm has coached for, he probably fairs as well or better.
Frazier grew on me because he spoke like a leader in his published interview. Not because I feel this hopeless sense of inferiority, and that we can’t get a big name coach. I’ve heard that on ESPN radio and it’s a load of crap.
I don’t rationale anything. I was calling for Jauron to go for not being a leader. I wrote a fanpost about it after the first NE game.
Your rationale does not apply to me. Therefore, my opinions are free of the “inferiority” complex that’s infected everyone. I think the current candidates (Frazier, Grimm, Rivera) are about the right guys to look at. We should also interview Garrett. We tried with Shanahan, Cowher, Gruden, and Schottenheimer. It’s not like we didn’t try, but it was also borderline unrealistic for a rebuilding team.
We should also start looking at others. The process works best with more choices. Nix taking his time isn’t bad, it’s good. Don’t rush to failure. Ask Redskins fans about that.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 15, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Its so much easier to have low or no expectations
Did we really expect something big to happen here?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Jan 15, 2010 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Come on Kurupt, I know it's been a tough few years, but you really don't feel that way, right?
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
PS, I love the fact that Kurupt's post came right after Der Jaeger said he has no idea if the fan base has an inferiority complex!
Just made me laugh.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHA
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Everything he said is the truth.........
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm I don't think its the right move to lowering the expectations
Its more I just accept the fact that it will be that way as long as Ralph is running the team.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
Pretty much sums up my thoughts
As I told Brian on twitter (more or less given the 140 character limit!). Those guys like Marty and Cowher are on my list because the team will never go anywhere if they don’t shoot for the stars.
.
John I.
bingo
the team will never go anywhere if they don’t shoot for the stars.
thats exactly right.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
But we are shooting for the stars with a BB gun....the RaRa stuff is great, but it just isn't going to happen
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
by Joe P. on Jan 15, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay, now is this comment pessimistic or realistic?
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHA
ive never heard that one before hahahaha its a great line. Shooting for the stars with a BB gun!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Hmm, whats that whole quote again? Oh yeah........
Shoot for the Stars and if you MISS you still end up in the clouds
So if we get Rivera, Grimm or Frazier, all of whom have been considered HC candidates, and good ones for a few years now, thats bad? We shot at the stars, missed, and are now making our way through the clouds.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Ralph, get the Front Office in order, THEN worry about who your HC is....
That saying has been updated
Shoot for the Stars and if you miss you better not hit an aircraft, because the FAA and Dept. of Home Land Security will find your a$$ and have you arrested as a terrorist.
Come to think of it….we are in the clouds……which in my flying experience, I would describe as difficult to see what is happening, very disorientating with no frame of reference to tell what is up and what is down, and very turbulent. Vertigo and nausea are frequent bi-products.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Your first point – I wasn’t calling anyone delusional. People look at things differently. Y’all are free to believe or endlessly wish for whatever you want.
Your second point – in NO WAY am I advocating that the team give up on Plan B. I’m not even sure how you interpreted it as such, because the idea was that while they wait on Frazier and Grimm, they should be conducting more interviews. Just as they were interviewing Frazier while waiting on Cowher. That’s the point I’m trying to make – they need to start working on the backup plan.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
fair enought but..
in NO WAY am I advocating that the team give up on Plan B. I’m not even sure how you interpreted it as such
Well, you did title an opinion piece “Bills NEED to turn to plan C”.
I can see now that perhaps you are suggesting that they turn to plan C while continuing to work on plan B. That is fine. I just refuse to give up and I hope the Bills are the same way. This whole process has been rather painful and if we fail at this – considering the perfect storm to nail our number one candidate as we are the only team with a vacany – then I’m not sure I can look at this team the same way. I’ll just finally know that we are the Clippers of the NFL, the Islanders of the NFL, or the Japan of the World Cup (ok, weird last example but you get my point). That will be a tough realization and because I don’t – and will never think we are – one of those teams I refuse to even consider Plan C in this ripe environment for Plan A, let alone Plan B.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
by poz on Jan 15, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Somehow Poz says what I am thinking AND even makes it clearer to understand
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
hahah glad to help!
its good to know that someone agrees with me! If it wasn’t for you and jri111 I’d think I was going insane!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Haha, I just wrote that earlier! Us against the world.
Man I wish I ran a company and my customers would just talk themselves into buying anything I produced, no matter the quality. I would be a rich man.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I hope the Bills are the same way.
You and literally every single other person in this vast, awesome fan base.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
hahah nice response!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Not sure if Plan C is such a good idea
Perhaps I listen to Mark Gaughn more than I should, but he commented this morning that the Bills have to be careful about trying to interview more candidates. The risk is that other prospects might turn them down, in which case Frazier might have second thoughts about taking a job no one else seems to want. Also, it might send a signal to him that they are less than excited about him and looking for someone better. Interviewing Grimm and Rivera if they are interested would be fine since the Bills have already approached them. Gaughn also mentioned Mike Heimdinger (sp), the OC of the Titans, as someone they might want to talk to, and that makes sense to me. But to head into a full-fledged Plan C at this point could be counterproductive. Gaughn argues — and I completely agree — that they should move to wrap things up with Frazier as soon as that becomes possible and not worry if he is the only candidate. If he is the guy they really want, so what?
In any event, I agree emphatically with Brian’s list and with his enthusiasm about Frazier. The only change I might make is to switch Grimm and Rivera, with Grimm becoming the second choice. The more I read about the former Hog, the more impressed I get. He seems to have that broader vision that you look for in a HC, along with a deeper knowledge of the game than I initially realized, and he is also apparently an excellent motivator. However I would still put Frazier in first place for all the reasons Brian supplies.
I dont even care if Chuckles the Clown is picked as this teams next HC....
lets just do this thing.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:02 AM EST reply actions
Whenever I see Chuckles the Clown, I think of former FSU LB Coach, NC State head coach Chuck Amato, who often dressed like a clown in red shoes … and frankly talked like a clown …
hhahahhahah
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Clowns
If the Bills hir a clown forget about Chuckles—-it should be Crusty the Clown, at least he has an edge to him and Side Show Bob could be the new Special teams coach!!!
"If you don't have good habits you have bad habits there are no in between habits"
No coach can be picked until he answers the most important question.
“What lies in the shadow of the statue?”
by XtrmeCarnage82 on Jan 15, 2010 11:21 AM EST reply actions
Maybe we should look into trading for a coach?
Wasn’t Jon Gruden traded to Tampa?
I mean, if nobody wants to willingly come here, let’s force them here! (sarcasm….ok, maybe I’m kinda serious)
Take it a step further
I’ll even go against the “I want someone who wants to be here” crowd and be the first on record to join the “I want someone who doesn’t want to be here” bandwagon!
Because when you think about it, if we hire someone who wants to coach here, how good can they really be? : )
by StroudFanClub on Jan 15, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Just a Theory
Is it possible that (1) Nix already decided on Frazier (and Frazier already indicated he’ll take it), and (2) Schottenheimer and some others already knew this so doesn’t want to do a meaningless (but harmful to them) “interview.” Since Frazier can’t take the job until the Vikings are out, he may be already informally/unoffically getting his coaching group together, and it is unwise (how embarrassing would it be for, say, Cohwer to interview and lose out to the already decided Frazier; possibly even worse for Schottenheimer to be seen as so connected with Nix and yet lose out to another coordinator). Perhaps I am, as usual, giving too much credit to One Bills Drive, but I just cling to anything that may put them in a better light (although, even in this theory, Frazier is probably being chosen over some of the other candidates because he is cheaper).
Where are they?
The coaches that want a challenge, that want to show they have what it takes to turn a team around. Dungy did it in Tampa, Levy in Buffalo, Vermil in St. Louis, Vermil in Philly, Parcells with the Jets, Noll in Pitt, Payton in NO etc etc.
Where are the leaders that want to leave their mark instead of playing it safe??? Is the money so good that don’t need or want to get out of their comfort levels—-Wussies!!!
Frazier is the man…….
"If you don't have good habits you have bad habits there are no in between habits"
It’s all because of that damned Willis McGahee talking smack about the city of Buffalo.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
All in with you bro......
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Jan 15, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Curious
W;ho decided that the Bills coaching search would be diveded into groups A B C??
Why does everyone think Cowher-Shanahan etc would make a better coach than the one the Bills pick from the so-called C list??
Bob
these questions have self evident answers.
Why does everyone think Cowher-Shanahan etc would make a better coach than the one the Bills pick from the so-called C list??
I think Super Bowls are just one of the reasons.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I've had little to know time to read much of the conversations here this week.
But is there a reason Jason Garrett isn’t in consideration? Is it his Jauron-esque salary as an OC?
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2010 12:28 PM EST reply actions
There have been comments. Most notably, that his personality isn’t all that great. Also, he may be reluctant to relinquish play calling similar to other coaches who have tried to “do it all” and are struggling (or are gone).
The salary issue wasn’t mentioned but I think that would resolve itself. The Bills will most likely have to pay more than his current salary for any candidate given present HC salary levels.
I made a comment that his connection to Wade might be a detrriment. Wade left on less than the best terms and might influence Garrett to avoid us if we come calling.
"If you're happy, stay happy" - Mike Riley
Wade got the shaft. That’s where things started to go downhill. That’s all i’ll say
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Trestman
Why not interview Trestman. He’s a HC (yes I know in Canada-and though I’m NOT comparing him to Marv let’s not forget that Levy coached north of the border) and an offensive mind. The offensive mind thing isn’t too terribly important, but it couldn’t hurt. I do like Frazier a lot though! Go Bills!!!
WOW
the potential exists for this debate to rage on another 3 weeks! I just hope OBD has the same level of passion. This could will go another 3 weeks.
"If you're happy, stay happy" - Mike Riley
Depends on if the Vikes win or lose on Sunday
If the Vikes lose, there is talk of Chilly being fired, which might work in our favor or against us depending on if the Vikes ask Frazier to be the next HC.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Yep, but that was before their little skid and the apparent rift between Chilly and Farve
Could be nothing but rumor….we shall see.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
replied to wrong comment....
meant that as response to “does OBD have the same level of passion”. If they did, they would not have waited a decade to decide that “maybe its time to change the way we do things”
My list of HC
Like most, I like Cowher, Frazier, and Grimm (in that order). But not a lot of people mentioned Mike Heimerdinger (OC of the Titans). He really turned the Titans offense around in the 2nd half, and featured the best running game in the NFL. The Bills need smash-mouth offense, and I think Heimerdinger will be a good choice. Not to mention he also comes from the hot-bed of offensive coaches — Eastern Illinois, where they also produced Sean Payton, Brad Childress, and Mike Shanahan.
However, when considering a HC for the Bills, I think one of the point which got lost in this discussion is whether the new HC has the ability to assemble quality coordinators quickly. In which case, I’d consider Brian Billick. To be honest, I don’t think he is a good at running offense, and I don’t think he is even a good OC, but I do think he knows how to surround himself with very good coordinators to make his team successful.
Bills fan half way around the world
I think one of the point which got lost in this discussion is whether the new HC has the ability to assemble quality coordinators quickly.
I have been screaming that from the rooftops! :-) It may have been lost in the discussion but when I posted my candidate report about Billick I said his biggest strength was finding great assistants.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Worried about? Any coach can bring in quality assistants.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Just ask Dick Jauron…
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 16, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
To me, if Cowher and MARTY Schottenheimer aren't available
then Billick is the best choice. I don’t like any of those six besides Grimm. Especially not Frazier.
What about a guy like Marty Morningweh as a HC canidate
Yea he bombed the first time through but he seems to be doing a good job in philly.
Lets go after Herm Edwards......he plays to win the game......
or how bout Mike Gundy……he’s a man…..he’s 40……
Atleast then when the team loses we can have entertaining press conferences.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 5:54 PM EST reply actions
lol.........
haha
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
I CAN SEE IT HAPPENING ALREADY......
a WEEK ago, so many were ready to hang themselves at the thought of Frazier, and a week later, now that options continue to fly off the board, many are rationalizing him as potentially a great coach.
I personally don’t know. I know that I would PREFER many of the other names out there, but picking a HC is like drafting a QB. You just have no way to know how it will pan out.
But if people that were against it last week are going to pull a 180 and approve Frazier as the choice , they should do so because they have read up on it enough and discovered enough about the guy that they honestly feel good about him being our coach…..not out of a feeling like “well, at least he wants us, and no one else does, so lets give him a shot”
That reaks of desperation, and I think we’ve had enough of it around this team for long enough!
We are the BUFFALO BILLS! In my lifetime, we OWNED the AFC for years! Let’s not forget that! We are NOT second class! Let’s take back our pride, people!
we OWNED the AFC for years! Let’s not forget that! We are NOT second class! Let’s take back our pride, people!
Amen, brother.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Aaaaaa the good ole days.....but don't foget the bad ole ancient days
We have been door mats for many more years than we have been contenders. I love my Bills, but let’s be honest. And, I am all for taking back the AFC :-)
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
true….but I was born in 79’, started watching football around 86’, became a Bills fan shortly thereafter, and cut my teeth watching the glory years from the humble beginnings in 88’ through the 2nd SB loss to Dallas in 94’. That level of football is what I’ve been painfully waiting for to return, only to find empty dreams. I know the stories of the terrible Bills of old, but thankfully I got to start my memories with good football, so thats what I have to compare it to, and that’s what I want to see again! I’m not asking for another 4 SB runs…..just some GOOD football! It’s been SO long!
I think
It was wishful thinking that we’d be able to attract a big name HC.We gotta do it with a green untested HC. And I feel it’s for 3 reasons… 1.Buffalo the city’s bad rep. 2.Uncertain future of the franchise staying in Buffalo. 3.The owners health and what happens when he passes. It’s kinda sad, but we could find the next Tom landry in a unknown asst. maybe! What really upsets me is I don’t feel that the franchise will stay in Buffalo and I just don’t see me staying a fan if they move.
Sometimes I just wish.....
…..that the people who ran our team read all this stuff and could understand the passion we have for our Bills! But, it’s a business to them, and that is all it is.
It’s why I have all the respect in the world for sports owners like Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones, George Steinbrenner, etc Some have severe personal flaws….some meddle way too much…..some dont have a clue….and some are just compleltely wreckless……but there ARE owners that put the priority on WINNING first! No matter how much you may hate their methods, you gotta respect an owner that wants to win above anything else!
Anyone that owns a team has already proven uber successful and rich beyond their wildest dreams, all the way down to the 5th and 6th generations and beyond, so WHY, and for the life of me I cant understand this, would WINNING not be the top priority? ESPECIALLY when they HAD to be competitive beyond measure at some juncture in their life to get where they got (assuming they didn’t inherit their fortunes, but rather earned them)
It’s frustrating that Ralph may be NOW ready to spend for a coach, after our franchise has been put in a hole that’s pretty damn tough to dig out of. The Bills are worth, what?…$800 million?
To me, the phrase “too little, too late” has never held truer than with the Bills right now.
I hope Nix can turn some of the decision making around and get us going the right way, but had Ralph done the right thing for the Buffalo Bills financially and with personnel in the late 90’s, early 00’s and since- we would not be like the black plague to so many coaches.
Ok. Time to do some ledge-talking-off. I understand that we haven’t been to the playoffs in 10 years and that can wear anyone down. I understand that running around like the proverbial golden goose with its head cut off, laying 24k eggs with each step, has some appeal because at least there is the appearance of trying to do something about the problems that have cropped up. The problem is that the goose is dead after that. We need it alive.
We don’t have the money that a Cuban, or a Jones, or a Steinbrenner has. We have less income base so we have to be more calculated in our moves for that reason. When we mis-step, it hits us harder and longer because we can’t spend wildly to cover our mistake. It happens in any big business vs. small business environment frequently.
Despite the disadvantage, we’ve had numerous periods of success: the ’60’s with Saban, the early 80’s with Knox, and of course the ’90’s with Levy. When the salary cap hit in the ‘90s, we blew it big time, but we tried to do the right thing. Ralph made two mistakes. He hired the wrong guy for the right reasons (Donahoe), then he hired the wrong guy for the wrong reasons (Levy). This is frustrating, but it’s still only 2 mistakes, large though they may be. We’re trying to remedy those now. Others have done far worse.
Now for a healthy dose of schadenfreude-
The Raiders have an owner who is nearer to death’s door than ours. He hires puppets, drafts lazy and underqualified combine phenoms, and creeps everybody out. His coaches are awful, soul-less incompetents.
The Browns have never been to the Super Bowl. Eric Mangini is their coach. They’re not gonna get there for a while.
And finally, The Detroit Lions haven’t been to the playoffs since ‘99, just like us, except they’ve never been to the Super Bowl and have only won a single playoff game since 1957, more than 50 years ago. They stayed with Millen for 9 years. The greatest RB in the game, Barry Sanders, couldn’t get them over the hump.
We may be a bad football team, but we’re not these teams. It will take a little while, but the pendulum will swing back our way. Just be patient and maintain. We’ll get there.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
BOTTOM LINE.
Here are the 8 coaches left in the playoffs:
1. Wade (hahahahaha)
2. Childress (really?)
3. Whisenhunt (came to Arizona as a respected coordinator)
4. Rex (another respected coordinator)
5. Caldwell (could be a statue – Peyton runs that operation)
6. Payton (went to N.O. as a respected coordinator… getting familiart yet?)
7. Norv (he’s really inspiring)
8. Harbaugh (I’m sure we would have welcomed this former ST coach as our head man last year)
Get the point? The players are what matters. Coaches are important, but the above list does not lie. Whoever we hire, let’s just keep this in mind.
Well, the Bills have players (on defense anyway), they just cant stay healthy.
One reason is we clearly have the worst training and conditioning staff in the league. (the Bills have led the league in IR players in back to back years)
The other reason is the COACHES using undersized players at positions they should not be at.
You can find flaws in any coach, but all 8 of the coaches have traits noone in Buffalo has had since Phillips (BEFORE deciding to sit Flutie for Rob): common sense.
They understand who they have on their team and puts them in a position to suceed. Now granted, this ultimately goes back to the front office making good decisions, who in Buffalo has failed on more draft picks then have succeeded, and brought in all the wrong players via FA to build a team with. It’s the same tired conversation thats been had every way possible on this site: Owner sucks, Front Office sucks, so the coach sucks, and the players, in turn: suck
But speaking specifically to the coaching element: every coach we have had this decade has looked absolutely lost, and out of his element. Not one coach has inspired this team, or gotten the best out of them. For God’s sake, we lost to the Steelers THIRD string with our starters in 2004 with the playoffs on the line…..AT HOME!
StroudFanClub has the best point
Washington got their first option. Seattle got their first option. What number are we on? I heard talk from Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher, Billick, Frazier, Grimm, all the way down (and my new favorite person to hate) B. Schottenhiemer. Didn’t Washington interview two people? Didn’t Snyder sew that thing up before a Dallas playoff loss and Jerry Jones got him? Mora had a contract in Seattle for how many more years? And yes, he got the axe as soon as Holmgren wasn’t there to protect him. They got a new guy who they wanted. So yes, as a Bills fan for life, I do feel that the game has passed Ralph by. It’s like he’s got a BB gun in a .44 caliber world.
I remember Gruden doing the Bills Monday night game and talking up how “MeKelvin, that’s my guy!” And I thought, wouldn’t it be nice to have a guy like that? Someone who can take an offense and make it into something special. That’s when I started to dream. “Ralph, make it happen.” And here we are. I don’t have an inferiority complex as a Bills fan. We know our team has more heart then about 30 other teams in this league. We see it in the way Kelsey and Ellison give 110%. (Guys who’d be second string on another team but we can’t seem to let them go.) But it turns out that heart doesn’t win football games. If it did, we’d have a much better record against the Cheatriots.
I’m calling out Ralph. Can any of you honestly believe that Gruden wants to be on the sidelines? Why is it that other teams get their number one choice and we don’t? Make it happen Ralph. Make it happen. Call his agent, assure him that you will live to be 160 years old (which we all know you will) and not move the football team to Toronto (because no one wants to pay those taxes) and make it happen. You got Nix. He’ll provide some stellar draft classes I’m sure. Now, it’s time for step two. (Make the call. Make the call.) We’ve hung in there for you. Now it’s time for you to step it up for us. I’m 109% sure that Gruden’s contract has an out for a coaching position. (Read the fine print.) Gruden was hot for us once. I’m telling you he liked out talent, even if it was as an announcer. (Make the call.) Let’s end this. Let’s pick up the phone and end this together.
Don’t tell me that you WANT Frazier? You are settling for him. And while I agree he’s got some positives, he’s not your number one. And watch out with what happens to the Vikings. Do you think that their isn’t a chance Frazier doesn’t become the Viking’s next Head Coach? (Make the call.) I give it a less than 20% chance, but it’s there. And you know he will turn us down if he’s given a playoff ready team instead. (Make the call.)
Remind them. Remind them all that you are a HALL OF FAME OWNER and you can still get the guy you really want!! (Make the call.) It’s gonna cost you. It’s gonna cost you plenty. Let that be a point a pride! Besides everyone knows you can’t take the money with you in the next life. Make the call. Make it happen. The other owners can do it. So can you.
Gruden Backer
Moose—-being in the Tampa area I felt Gruden was an excellent coach, he got the shaft because the Glazer’s haven’t spent any money on FA since they purchased Manchester United. The Bucs were roughly $30 million under the cap. Gruden coached his ass off to have the team competitive. Look what happened this year they went from 9-7 to 3-13.
Unfortunately Gruden isn’t going to budge, the Glazers owe him 2 more years at $5 million each, if he goes back into coaching he loses that. That salary plus his TV salary add up to a large chunk of change.
How relieved was Pat Bowlen when the Skins signed Shanahan, it got off the hook for $14 million….I say he was thrilled!
"If you don't have good habits you have bad habits there are no in between habits"
PLAYERS!
are the biggest factor! We have not had the players in here to win in a decade. Ourt coaches have sucked yea but I remember we were all about Mularkey when they went on that streak but fell short thanks to fast willy parker and our players choking under the pressure of win and in. The coaches in the playoffs post was not meant to infer that coaching hasn’t been our problem because coaching certainly has been a problem. My point is that the biggest reason we have had a miserable decade is because of the front office not finding the best players. Our drafts have ranged from decent to disasterous, but never a home run. Name one big impact player we have drafted in the past decade…..I can’t either. We can talk and talk and talk about who we want as our coach, but the bottom line is we don’t know who the best coach for us is, we just want a guy we have heard of and who will get us respect around the league when we hire him. This is how we will get respect: FIND GOOD PLAYERS TO GO ALONG WITH SOME GREAT PLAYERS AND WIN! Then whoever our coach is will look like a great hire. END OF STORY NO MORE POSTS NECESSARY.
Don’t tell me that you WANT Frazier?
Not as much as a Cowher or Shanahan, but on October 5th I wrote:
I think Leslie Frazier would be an excellent HC hire
And then on December 5th I posted this:
I’m a huge fan of Leslie Frazier as a head coaching candidate
What’s so crazy about wanting Leslie Frazier to be the next coach? He’s Dungy-esque in the way he treats his players, demanding effory and accountability. He’s considered to be a good teacher and motivator and is is supposedly very organized and can be a big picture type of guy. I won’t be at all dissapointed with Frazier and would prefer him to every remaining realistic candidate.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
It has all been said
So many well thought out and intelligent comments, I have nothing to add except this:
- If Nix manages to land a coach that we’re all happy with, then process to get there—with all the rejection—simply fades away.
- If the coach Nix hires is perceived to be inferior or third-rate, then turns out to be a great coach; then the issues getting there also go away
- If Nix ultimately brings aboard another mediocre former coach or a coordinator who should have stayed a coordinator; then …well, then Brandon should be fired along with Nix, Dean Wormer, and that Neidermeyer guy. As for Bills fans, my advice would be to start drinking heavily.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Another name to throw out there that I have neot heard or seen
What about Jim Mora Jr.? Like I said, just throwing it out there. I don’t know much about the guy other than he seemed to be one of these so called “up & coming” coordinators, did pretty decent in Atlanta from what I remember, & then was one & done in Seattle. Nothing against Carroll, but I think the Seahawks made a mistake. No matter who it is, expecting someone to turn a team around in one year when dealing with another coach’s leftovers is a bit unrealistic to me. I know he should be looking for work unless I missed something and he already signed somewhere. Thoughts?
Not sure if there is anything new since this
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/1/10/1243654/is-jim-mora-jr-worth-a-look
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Thanks Joe
Honestly, I missed that post completely. But I see we seem to have similar opinions on the subject. I also see from the voting results, bringing him in for an interview wasn’t very popular. If someone else gets the job (Frazier most likely IMO), I think he might be worth a look as a coordinator?
DAMN IT SUCKS TO BE A BILL FAN. BUT WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?
That’s all I have left to say on the topic of players, coaches, GM’s, and owners. It’s ALL been said. There TRULY is NOTHING left to say that has not been said over the past few weeks.
Hey Goose
That’s what I’m saying. It will hurt Ralph a lot financially to get Gruden, especially at this stage in the game. I expect it to be in the 12 to 15 mil per year range with a minimum of 4 years guaranteed. It will take making him the highest paid coach in Football history. But we won’t be letting him go, He’ll finish out that contract. And Ralph will make most of it back. If signing an aging WR last year made us buy more season tix, starting the era of ChuckyBall will definitely get us to buy more tix.
I’m not against Jim Mora, Jr, or Frazier; although I do question the motivation of OBD to not even interview Billick, he’s the one guy who wants the job. But my point is why can’t we be like one of those other teams. Why can’t we get our first choice too? And yes, I really think Gruden can be had for the right price. He built the Raiders into winners (back when they were winners.). I doubt he’s afraid of a rebuilding job.
I still think that we might not get Frazier
12-15 a year???? That’s double the current highest-paid coach! It’s not worth it.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 16, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Some great stuff in here...
I’m more of a lurker, but I’ve enjoyed the comments so far.
FWIW, my #1 choice is Russ Grimm. Unlike Brian ( who I respect very much by the way ), I would really prefer our next HC to have experience and success with the offense. The biggest appeal for me is Grimm is a HOF talent in the trenches, and that will go a long way in helping the Bills in the W-L column. I think that Buffalo would rally around him in a way that hasn’t happened with a new HC in a long time. Blue collar man in a blue collar city.
We’ve had some very nice pieces in our defense for a long time. The trend was watching them all leave for bigger paydays ( Nate Clements and Antoine Winfield come to mind ). But if we can get the offense working again, that in itself will put our defense in a better position to win. Our secondary is pretty good, and I still have a lot of faith in Poz. If we can add some depth to our front seven on defense ( who don’t bust ), we’ll at least be a wildcard contender with a little productivity on offense.
Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!
by Run Thurmal Run! on Jan 16, 2010 3:17 PM EST reply actions
stop lurking and start posting more often!
Good comment. I agree with a lot of it. Obviously, my number one choice is Bill Cowher, but my number one coordiantor choice is Russ Grimm. Well said
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Look out for lurkers! =P
Thanks poz. I’ve posted a few times, but the blogging world can be a tough crowd sometimes. LOL
I’m with Brian on the reality of the situation. I’ve never considered Cowher, Gruden or Marty as our next HC. Marty has repeatedly said he’s not interested in coaching anywhere. And since the big name coaches are avoiding Buffalo, I couldn’t imagine we’d be able to get him to change his mind.
The fact that we have an old stadium along with a very good chance of being relocated are contributing factors to explain why the #1 prospect wouldn’t want to come here. We have to keep that in mind. Small market team without deep pockets owned by an old owner are other reasons. Our front office isn’t exactly the blueprint for championships.
And that’s another reason why I’ve had Russ Grimm at the top of my list ever since the rumor started about him. He’s been successful everywhere he’s been, and yet I don’t picture him to be a coach with an ego that is too big for Buffalo or to be in Buffalo. In my opinion, Grimm should be our #1 choice right now. And as soon as we can start talking to him, we should be going after him as aggressively as we would if it was Cowher or Shanahan.
Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!
by Run Thurmal Run! on Jan 16, 2010 3:37 PM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Buffalo Rumblings
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
