Tebow should be on Bills fans' radar
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 2:45 PM EST
in 2010 NFL Draft
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PrintWhen it comes to NFL Draft prospects, Florida quarterback Tim Tebow isn't just the most highly-debated prospect of the year - he might be the most controversial prospect of the last decade. Half the country is convinced that the southpaw, coming from a spread offense at Florida, will never be able to master the techniques and defense-reading abilities required to be an NFL star. The other half is convinced that the wildly productive Heisman winner has the work ethic, intelligence and intangibles to overcome his well-documented shortcomings.
So, in response to your potential bewilderment over the headline of this article - yes, we're aware that Tebow is probably already on your radar. We're talking from a different angle here. Tebow should be on your radar because from initial appearances, the Buffalo Bills might end up really liking Tebow as a prospect - and, more importantly, as a quarterback.
GM Buddy Nix has only been on the job for four weeks in Buffalo, but it only took him a weekend to throw a few compliments Tebow's way. Chan Gailey, an offensive mind known for turning average quarterbacks into the leaders of playoff teams, brings a philosophy centered around adapting an offensive scheme to his players' talents. You don't need me to tell you that Buffalo is starved for a franchise quarterback. I'm not saying Tebow will get first-round consideration from Buffalo - or consideration at all, for that matter - but that headline rings true. He needs to be considered a serious candidate to become a Buffalo Bill.
Earlier this month, Nix did a radio interview with 97 Rock (WGRF; the official radio station of the Buffalo Bills) in which he was asked about Tebow as a prospect. Nix didn't exactly hold back his opinion:
"I love the guy, like everybody else. He's almost too good to be true."
"I've seen some stars fall before, but I don't think he will."
"He's gonna make any team he goes to better. He's gonna make the people around him better. He demands that, and you're embarrassed to let him down."
Nix didn't talk much about Tebow's quarterback skills, which are, of course, the most critical element to any evaluation of Tebow as a football player. We're not likely to ever know too much about the Bills' evaluation there - and keep in mind that Tom Modrak's opinions will carry at least some weight on that matter, even if he's fired right after the draft.
But it's clear that Nix respects Tebow the person, respects his work ethic and intelligence, and thinks a lot of his leadership abilities. Those facts alone should pique the interest of Bills fans; maybe there's more to it than a new GM simply throwing a few compliments a player's way.
Nix is well-known for preferring long-term production at the position as well. In fact, in an article from The Buffalo News this very morning, Nix spoke to Mark Gaughan about what made Philip Rivers such an attractive prospect to him while in San Diego:
"He had 51 starts, and he played in a bowl game every year, and he was the most valuable player in every bowl game he ever played in."
In short, it was Rivers' experience and production in big games that was a big selling point for Nix. Tebow is overqualified in this area - he appeared in four bowl games (three as a starter) and, in the three in which he started, he won MVP twice. He accumulated a lot of starts and a lot of wins, and no matter what evaluation Tebow gets on his raw skills, those wins and awards have historically been important to Nix, and thus shouldn't be disregarded.
Nix is all about production and character in football players. Again, from the above News article:
"It's based on a body of work. If you get a guy who's always done it, I think he'll continue to do it. These one-year wonders who you think nobody else has found? They're probably going to get you in trouble."
[snip]
"Football character is a guy who knows how to be a pro. He knows how to work, he's dependable. Every Sunday you go out there you're going to get the same thing. There is a big difference between the two (football character and off-the-field character)."
Those signs all point to Nix being impressed, even if only on a general level, by Tebow as a prospect. Add in Gailey's willingness to work with rough-around-the-edges quarterbacks, and speculation is sure to increase.
None of this is to say that the Bills even view Tebow as an NFL-caliber quarterback. They might not; for all we know, they might look at him as the next great halfback. But three facts are undeniable:
- Nix's history indicates that he will probably like a lot of what he sees from Tebow, on tape and behind the scenes
- Buffalo needs a franchise signal-caller that has proven he can win, no matter how it's accomplished
- After an uninspiring start to the off-season, Tebow would at least raise some eyebrows in Western New York
So be warned, whether or not you like Tebow as a quarterback prospect or not. The groundwork exists for the Bills to become enamored with Tebow, whatever his role might be. If he's not on your radar already as a potential Bills draft pick, you'd be wise to change that immediately. A lot of this looks legitimate, though we'd also caution that it's very early in the pre-draft process.
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wildly productive Heisman winner
this is actually the biggest issue – Heisman winners flop in the NFL. it’s not a rule – but boy does it happen a lot
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
carson palmer seems to be doing well
and reggie bush is finally finding his niche
and whats up to no shout out to my fanpost? messed up… haha
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by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
Some Heisman winners flop because they put up big statistics in a system designed for college players to walk all over the field. However when they get to the NFL they find it is an entirely different game and they cannot adjust.
And that sounds exactly like Tebow to me.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
did you watch palmer at all this year? so far, most people who judge him as an elite qb do it based on one season of work.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
i didnt say elite
i said he was doing well
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
and whats up to no shout out to my fanpost? messed up… haha
Haha, you and the hundreds that have preceded/will follow you. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
for real.
i hear ya. no worries
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Experience is huge in my book
I love the experience factor that Tim Tebow brings to the table. The fact that he has been the starter for a solid three years is a huge positive. Two years ago Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco came out, both had a lot of starting experience and they did very well.
Now I am not saying that Tebow will make the same transition as they did but his experience will help him to make it faster.
They also had experience in with pro style reads and were credited with having great field vision. Nobody is going to be saying that kind of stuff about Tebow. He could play another couple years in that Florida offense and he’d hardly be any more prepared than he is right now for the next level.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I hear what your saying, but what about these mid major guys that aren’t privy to the coaching of major college programs? The same argument can kind of be made. The argument for the mid major guys is their surrounding casts don’t make it easy for them and they seem to have an edge on making things happen with their pure talent vs a great system. So to me a guy like Tebow could possibly flourish despite not being seen in an NFL style offense.
by Buffalonian on Jan 28, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not about major vs. lower level. Take Joe Flacco at Delaware. Sure, he spent a lot of time in the shotgun, but that’s really not the difference between a spread offense and a pro style offense. Flacco was asked to read the whole field. He had to read the type of coverage the defense was throwing his way and then he went through hs progressions. One of his strengths coming out of college was his field vision. So, the lower level of competition wasn’t that big of a factor for him because all he had to adjust to was the speed of the game and the lack of space that NFL defenses give up.
Tebow is asked to read half the field. And when a QB only has to do that, his reads on the defense are different too. It doesn’t matter if it’s man, cover 1,cover 2 or whatever else. Tebow can just stare down one LB or one S and know who to throw the ball to. But that isn’t what he’ll be asked to do in the NFL. The learning curve for a QB like Tebow is steeper than a D1AA guy who played in a pro style offense. I think it’s a terrible idea for any spread QB to be asked to play as a rookie. A guy like Tebow becomes even more of a project when you add in the fundamentals in terms of footwork and mechanics he needs to work on too. He’s going to have a ton on his plate as a rookie.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Jan 28, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That is absolutely not true
to say a DII pro-style QB has less of a learning curve than an SEC spread QB based on the level of competition alone… think about it. How many DII QB’s are starting in the NFL right now?… Have you ever heard Tebow in press conferences talking about coverages? He knows what defenses are throwing at him.
As some more food for thought… what’s so bad about running a spread. New England runs one pretty well. The Cardinals spread it out (wouldn’t call it a true spread, though). Imagine if Tom Brady could run like Tebow, how much more difficult it would be to defend the spread against him. You’d have to significantly alter your pass rush and probably set up a spy, taking a man out of coverage.
What say you?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
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by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
How many DII QB’s are starting in the NFL right now?
That’s not the point. Put a super talented guy like Tim Tebow on a DII team that runs a pro style offense for four years and he’s more prepared for the NFL than he is right now. At least that’s my opinion. As for DII guys, you’ve got Warner, Flacco and Romo which is about the same number and considerably more success than you’ve got with gimmicky spread QBs like what Florida runs.
Shotgun isn’t spread. It’s about defensive reads and progressions. Brady reads the defense and goes through progressions. Tebow stares down a LB and decides whether to throw or run. It’s completely different.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Put a super talented guy like Tim Tebow on a DII team that runs a pro style offense for four years and he’s more prepared for the NFL than he is right now.
I don’t agree with this kaiser. I think the level of athleticism and the speed of the game Tebow or a QB like him faces in the SEC is far more valuable than playing a pro style offense. The NFL is a fast game filled with super athletes, at least the SEC can get closer to mimicking that game than DII.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
It’s my opinion, and it’s just an opinion, that adjusting to the speed of the NFL takes a lot less than time than learning how to read the whole field does.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
of course its an opinion
but your opinion has proven to be valuable here.
Nonetheless, I do feel sitting on the bench could help Tebow overcome any learning he hasn’t yet received. Hes a smart and hard working guy who is a great athlete. Sitting behind a guy like Vick could do wonders for him in this regard. I think his exposure to top flight talent is most definitely a plus. And, if anyone can develop an unconventional offense for Tebow, its certainly Gailey.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Well see thats the problem, I don’t think that this team has the patience to leave Tebow on the bench for 2 years. I think that once the year starts going bad (game 6 or 7) they would throw him in to see what he can do and totally ruin his confidence in the process. I don’t think that the Bills would give Tebow the time that he needs to develop.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
I hate to disagree with a fellow Canuck but.......
I really hate this notion that QBs in general are mentally fragile and will completely implode when they initially fail. Starters in the NFL need to be tough and driven and be able to move past their own mistakes. It should be the number one “intangible” that the NFL team drafting a QB should look for.
My Lions failed in that with Joey Harrington, but got it right [IMO] with Matt Stafford.
Everything I have read and heard of Tebow, even from gurus and people that think very little of him, is that he is very competitive and relentless. He sounds like he has the mindset to take a challenge head on and will not get deterred by initial failure.
Whether he succeeds to become a top notch NFL starter is another matter entirely. I just don’t think the mental aspect is something people need to worry about. Him getting killed when he goes head to head with an NFL LB…….that I would worry about.
Him getting killed when he goes head to head with an NFL LB…….that I would worry about.
Ah but thats something else that I’ve been preaching here. And Yet I’ve been told that I’m wrong on that too.
BTW, the Lions deffinatly did make the right pick in Satfford. If there was any doubt before it was totally erased when he threw a game winning touchdown with a seperated shoulder. One of the most aw inspiring moment I have ever seen, truly.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
I think you underestimate Tebow
I think he’s a special case. Imagine Drew Bledsoe with quick feet and Kurt Warner’s resolve and devotion to the game. I am not saying he won’t struggle at first but unlike Edwards I bet Tebow rises above those struggles and finds success.
Or not, but I think defense is the name of the game in the SEC and even though Tebow played the spread at Florida, he played against some of the best defenses in the country. The spread is not some magic elixir for making every QB successful. That Tebow started 3 full seasons and had to adjust along the way to the ever changing defenses from year to year makes up for the gimmicky kind of numbers. Even halved, Tebow’s production is still quite impressive.
If you believe in the Heisman jinx, maybe it doesn’t count because Tebow didn’t win it this year :)
I have to agree with Kaiser here
Reading defenses is the single most important QB skill in the NFL today. Opposing DCs will throw different looks and blitzing schemes to try to confuse the QB. If you can’t get the right read, you’ll call a play that puts the offense in a disadvantage, or you throw a pick, or you get sacked before you knew what happened.
I actually consider the “It” factor being equal to “reading defenses”. Because if a QB’s got “it”, then he’s got what it takes to win, and what it takes is reading defenses accurately.
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Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
Except nobody is going to confuse Tebow for Brady. Tebow’s accuracy and mechanics are inconsistent, his arm strength is average, and his footwork is questionable. He’s a way more mobile than Brady, but so is Roethlisberger, and he gets sacked CONSTANTLY. I actually kind of like the prospect of Tebow, but I’ve gotta agree with kaiser on the fact that he’s got a lot of learning to do.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 29, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
I Would Not Bet Against Tebow
… but that doesn’t mean I would place such a huge bet ON him. I would prefer they take a left tackle, but if they took Tebow I wouldn’t complain. He WILL go in first round.
The guy is simply not a franchise QB. He has awful footwork, bad mechanics, lacks experience in a Pro-Style offense (in other words, he’s not overly accustomed to reading defenses, like it’s expected of you in the NFL), has average arm strength and is going to take a LOT of time to develop; something Nix and Gailey don’t have (the fans aren’t going to give them the benefit of the doubt and the pressure will immediately be on them to put a winner on the field and with good reason).
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 28, 2010 3:06 PM EST reply actions
I disagree
All the things you mentioned are fixable things with a person that wants to learn them. Tebow is the kind of person that is willing to learn.
I think find good football talent is not that hard, all you have to do is ask is one simple question. Can they play football? After that I would look at how long they played at a high level and possibly their competition. All the other science behind it is over thinking the issue.
Tebow answers those questions perfectly. He can play football, he’s played at a high level for a long time and his competition is some of the best.
Now will he be instant impact, no because of some of the little things he has to fix but the main components are there. In short he is a football player.
actually, if you talk to the scouts, these ARE NOT fixable things. He’s never had to read a defense before, or take a snap under center, or go through more than a 2 route progression. People who actually know about these things have been writing that it will be nearly impossible for him to change his awful throwing motion, and that his motion has actually gotten worse over the past few years instead of better, despite people working on it with him. Just look at notes from the senior bowl.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
OMG
seriously, i can change my throwing motion in one day if i needed to. I don’t get it. Why is it so damn hard for people to change a delivery? I used to throw side-arm… then i found it’s more accurate to throw over the top. I used to shoot a basketball with a flying elbow, then I straightened it. It’s not hard to do these things… WTF??!!!! Change your swing in baseball whatever, you name it. I’m an amateur athlete and I can do these things, why the hell can’t professionals? Why didn’t somebody grab little Timmy in high school and say, “Now listen son, throw it like this.”
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
because he was throwing it so freaking awesome
the way he was doing it. Critics keep complaining and he keeps winning. I’d rather let Tebow prove he can’t fix it than assume it.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Right. Everyone has to put their 2 cents in about how Tebow “should” be playing his position. Well, has he given them any reason to think he needs to change? Has he not succeeded in all arenas?
People who point to his less-than-stellar (i.e. typical) throwing motion are the ones I ask if they’ve watched Drew Brees.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 28, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
because the way he does it will not work in the nfl. Theyve already said at senior bowl practices that balls are getting batted down, picked off, or not even past the defensive line because his wind up takes so long that guys are all over it. What do you think will happen in the league when guys are even faster?
Tebow was able to make completions in college because he ran a system with superior athletes that got guys WIDE open so all he had to do was hit an area.
Its not actually the throwing motion itself. Its the wind up.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
hahahahahahahahaha come on QU!
You can not be serious that you actually believe Tim Tebow’s achievements in college football are because his receivers were wide open or because his o-line was perfect and all he had to do was hit an AREA?
I understand if you don’t think Tebow will be a good NFL prospect, I have my own doubts. But to say that he was able to make completions in college without relying on his own skill is simply not correct. To even suggest his team was winning despite him is even worse. Remove Tebow from those teams and I’m sure they are still great. But they are not the legends they are without him.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I have
seen every snap of Tebow’s career and you just don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
That’s not necessary.
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
You probably saw him fail against defenses that were run by NFL defensive minds too, didn’t you… (Think Monte Kiffin and Nick Saban and Tebow’s 1TD and 2INTS in 2 games and 121ypg average in those two games)
Actually...
He faired pretty well against Oklahoma, Alabama, Tennessee…. The games he struggled in were few and far between…
I honestly don’t know what people from the northern part of the country hear about the SEC and Tim Tebow…. but it sounds like there aren’t many people here who have actually watched him play very much. I have a very good feel for this guy… and there was never a situation where we needed Tim Tebow to drive down the field and win a game and he failed…. except once…. and we all know what happened after that. Even after getting beat by Bama, look what he did to Cincy. It’s scouts jobs to break him down, but you can’t break the kid down… you cannot quantify his will to succeed.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Actually...
I keep seeing people mentioning the Cincinnati game, but I dont get it. Pitt put up 44 points against cincinnati’s defense. There is practically no position on the pitt offense, except running back of course.. Dion for Heisman, that has the same talent level of the Gators. Cincinnati was used to playing big east teams and anyone who thought they were gonna compete in that game, let alone win it, is deluding themselves. Not to mention Brian Kelly had just abandoned them a few weeks earlier.
by uPitt_BillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 3:08 AM EST up reply actions
Drew Brees throws fine
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Understood
But why pay for something that’s less than “perfect” in both his passing mechanics & experience with pro style offense, he gets low marks. Rather invest in someone that does’nt need alot of “work”. Tough enough (I could only imagine) to adjust to the pro game without Tebow’s perported weaknesses.
by buffalobacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Dead on!
I’m not saying that Tebow will never be a good NFL QB. But the Bills have so many things to worry about that we don’t need a project at QB.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
Nix drafted Phillip Rivers who was thought to throw too side-arm. That’s worked out ok, The media and draft-heads always make a huge deal out of throwing motion issues, but some of the best QB’s had those very same issues. I know at least Steve Young was said to have issues coming out, look how that worked out.
In Buffalo’s case, Tebow with bad footwork throws just about as well as Trent Edwards. I think Tebow is exactly the kind of guy Gailey would love to have and get the most out of. I personally have had enough of whiny thin-skinned QBs rolling through here. Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, JP Losman, Trent Edwards. All have one thing in common – a lack of steel resolve. Tebow seems to have that (I guess I would call it Kurt Warner Holy Spirit Armor 2.0) and it would be a shame to pass it up (if the opportunity presents itself in the draft) because of mechanical issues.
Even if you hate Tebow or the idea of Tebow, you have to admit that there IS something special there that none of the other QB’s in the draft possess. To me, Clausen and Bradford seem like your typical vanilla maybe good, maybe bad prospects. Clausen even has a touch of primadonna in him, even if he’s shelved it a bit over the last couple of years. That would not be a good fit here in B-lo.
He’s not a franchise QB. The guy lacks some very, very integral tools or at least those tools of his are underdeveloped. The fact is very, very, very few QB’s from the spread turn out solid in the pro’s.
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 28, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Everything but “he’s not a franchise QB” is true there. You just can’t prove that little statement yet.
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
The evidence of those who have came before would support it though.
Other than Kosar,and Rivers I can’t think of any other QB’s that had such a funky throwingaction succeeding in the NFL. I may be wrong though.
BG
He is not the normal “Franchise QB”, so everyone knows what BFFD meant….People said Vick was a “Franchise QB” and he was, and so is Tebow…if you want your Franchise QB to be over-hyped, inaccurate RB, who lines up behind the C. Just my opinion, but Tebow is a wasted draft pick. He will be working Tim Couch in 4 years selling insurance or cars.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Another QB with a major concussion problem
You gotta be kidding.
they need to use 2 things:
1) double sided mouth pieces
2) the new age helmets that reduce concussions
and if they are really prone they should follow Mark Kelso and put the shell on
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by J2 on Jan 28, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
By the way, folks – keep this comments section strictly related to Tim Tebow the football player. I have no patience for opinions on Tim Tebow the person.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 3:15 PM EST reply actions
What is wrong with discussing Tebow the ‘feels it necessary to insert himself right into the middle of the most hot button issue in American politics on the largest possible stage’? It’s not which side he’s taking, but I can’t think of anything more distracting than becoming the face of that issue.
I meant in the sense of arguing the merits of either side of that discussion. This is not a political forum. Yes, those topics might be relevant from a distraction standpoint; let’s leave it at that and call it a night.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry, I’m not trying to get into this debate, but he hasn’t done it his whole career. He, nor any other athlete, has ever starred in a super bowl commercial to voice a personal opinion on a wedge issue. Never been done. This isn’t a closed case by a long shot. You don’t believe me, wait until Feb. 8th to see if how it plays in the media.
Again, I’m not taking a side on this issue. I’m just saying that while what he’s doing is very brave and honest, it also suggests that he feels that it’s his duty to make his personal beliefs part of his public image. And that is a problem for me.
he has..
spoken out about his beliefs throughout his time at Florida. Unless you have never watched ESPN you would have to know that because it’s simply true. Why do you have a problem with him making his beliefs part of his public image? It makes no sense to do so when it has nothing to do with how he plays. He is about as remarkable an athlete and person can be, and for you or anyone to be concerned with his ‘public image’ is beyond ridiculous.
by jmkney on Jan 28, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well
he’s the only one with the stones to do it. guess some things are more important to him than others.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
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by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
would you stop
i cant believe people complain about this commercial. He is stating his opinion about an issue which is far less annoying than all those celebrities singing songs and posting commercials all over TV over their preference for President during an election.
Get over it. Who cares.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
by poz on Jan 28, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I think the funny thing about that commercial is that it’s probably going to be an incredibly tame message. It’ll be all hype and then it’ll be the 7th most controversial commercial of the night.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
He wouldn’t be alive if his mother followed her doctor’s advice. I’d say that qualifies as something a bit more substantial than “personal beliefs”. Whether or not people agree with his position, he at least deserves the right to express that he’s thankful to be alive.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Yeah, I worded that wrong. Obviously, the message is significat. What I meant that is that it’s not going to be an “in your face” type of commercial. I don’t think it’s going to be controversial once people see it. If it was over the top, CBS wouldn’t air it.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Tebow over Clausen
I think Jimmy C. has as many question marks as Tebow. He somehow benefits from playing under Charlie Weis while Tebow is hurt by playing at Florida (from a pro perspective). If Tebow was at ND for four years they would have won a hell of lot more games than they did with Clausen.
Well,
Clausen – Plays in a pro-style offense, has the best footwork in the draft, throws a tight spiral, has a quick release, and has proved that he can be good on a terrible team.
Tebow – Plays in an offense that doesn’t translate to the NFL, has the worst footwork in the draft, throws wobbling ducks, has the longest delivery since Byron Leftwhich, and hasn’t proven anything except that he can lead a group of very talented players to achieve what is expected.
Some of those might be reasons for all of the question marks.
by Boogie on Jan 28, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
rec’d him? darn near killed him!
not to mention, clausen has already proven that he can flourish when he has an awful offensive line protecting him, and i don’t think you can escape how valuable that is.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm anxious to see Clausen's Real Height and Weight
I think he’s smaller than advertised. But you make good points about what he’s done. I honestly don’t see him doing it in the pro’s.
Oh, maybe not. I’m not saying that Clausen is a sure thing, and he’s definitely not 6’3", but at least he’s a quarterback for sure. I can’t see investing that much into a guy (Tebow) that people aren’t even sure IS a quarterback.
tim tebow is only 6’2, i don’t see anyone complaining about that.
There’s just so many notre dame haters.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
yeah people are waaaaay more objective about Tebow than they are about Notre Dame players
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
He's actually 6'2 and 3/4"
who the hell cares?…. he’s not 5’11"
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
right, my point is, both guys are around 6’2, and both are listed at 6’3…yet there’s a huge double standard. people just want to pick clausen apart because they hate on notre dame so much.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
I’m anxious to see Clausen’s Real Height and Weight
I’d guess about 6’1.75’’ and about 217-220. Smaller than advertised and a little small in general, but still in the acceptable range for a prospect.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Clausen
just looks soft. I like what I see from him, but there’s something missing from his game.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
And also....
Nobody is walking up to Tim Tebow after a loss and trying to punch him out lol
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
something missing? sure
but I wouldnt call him soft. his entire first year as a starter he was constantly getting rocked behind one of the worst offensive lines in the nation and kept getting back up for more
Clausen is a lot of things
But soft isn’t one of them. His entire Junior season he played with torn ligaments in his right big toe. The only game he sat out was during the Purdue game and that was more of a coaching decision than his. Then when his team needed him for a game-winning drive, he went in, in pain and cold, and lead his team down the field for the winning score. (which brings up how I don’t think he has leadership issues as McShay claims he has, but that’s another argument for a different time).
Also, if you watched him in his first two years, especially his first year, he got ROCKED every game and kept picking himself up off of the ground.
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
Rec'd
McShay is trying to make a living on confusing people that he is Mayock.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
ha
i mean like his presence and command is soft. he’s not an assertive leader. he’s not an imposing personality in interviews. he’s meek
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Mayock just said
Clausen is better than Brohm but not as good as Henne.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
i would say even smaller....
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
extremely well said!
Actually everything that Nix said about Tebow applies to Claussen. He improved every year as a starter and won a crap load of games on a team that had a very bad defense. Claussen has all the tools to succeed in his rookie year whereas Tebow is a 1-3 year project. Claussen had tremendous expectations on him and he surpassed them, he definitely is a ver strong prospect for the pros.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
I think there is a difference in the Clausen’s career vs Tebow’s. Clausen spent part of his schedule beating up (or not in the case of Navy) service academies and other second-tier teams. I’m not saying Clausen is a bad QB by any means, I think he looks good, but I can see how in his case what shines like gold might be Iron Pyrite. Tebow played against and beat the best the SEC had to offer most of the time. Clausen did his part as well has he could have though, if only Notre Dame had something resembling a defense.
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
And you just mentioned all the reasons why I DON’T want the Bills to draft Tebow. His personal character and increadible leadership aside, I just don’t see him translating to a good NFL player.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
It’s about as strong an argument as most of the ones people use against Tebow. Almost all college QBs have “bad” mechanics by NFL standards, the ones that do have good mechanics (Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan) usually end up being average at best QBs because they’ve pretty much maximized their potential.
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
really? calling someone a tool bag is as good a reason not to draft them as bad mechanics?
yeah, forgot his leadership abilities, his toughness, his knowledge of a pro offense, his ability to read the defense under center and make full progression reads, his strong arm, etc etc, BUT WE DEFINITELY SHOULD DRAFT HIM CAUSE SOME GUY SAYS HES A TOOL BAG.
great, great argument.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Marshawn Lynch
turned out to be a toolbag…. just sayin… it should be a factor
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
if you’re going to compare clausen to lynch then i don’t think you know a single thing about him.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Again… not necessary.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
deep breaths
yup, that’s exactly what i said… Jimmy Clausen is just like Marshawn Lynch… verbatim.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
He did fine at ND, I’m just saying that I think Tebow brings more to the table long term and in Buffalo, especially late in the season, your mental toughness and feet might be more important than your passing mechanics. I can agree with you that Clausen HAS matured in his time at Notre Dame but unless we’re trading up Clausen and Bradford are not going to be available.
Clausen and Bradford would be good on a team proficient at keeping a quarterback upright. I believe Tebow can make the line look better than it is because he can move around better. His legs will help him a lot until his passing mechanics get worked out. Sort of a Ben Rothlisberger progression.
It's About the Offense
Clausen benefits from playing under Weis because he’s played in a pro style offense where he took snaps under center and made pro style reads. Tebow’s offense had him in the shotgun and the reads he made were spread-style reads that aren’t similar to the ones made in the NFL.
Tebow not only needs to completely overhaul his mechanics, but he needs to spend time learning how to play in the type of offense Clausen played in throughout college. Tebow has significant advantages over Clausen in the intangibles department, but Clausen has an advantage in NFL readiness in pretty much everything else.
agreed – i’m pretty tired of people making picks based on intangibles. I like the tangibles…you know, where someone has actually PROVEN they can do something instead of everyone saying that he could possibly do it.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
How has Tebow not proven anything where Clausen has? “Pro-style” or no you really don’t know what reads Weis required Clausen to make. He very well could have had Clausen look no.1, look RB then go…. You just don’t know.
What surprises me about Tebow is how many times he did pass even though he was such a good runner. If you take away Tebow’s running numbers, his stats are still very impressive.
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
actually, you do know, if you watch the games or watch the tape, or know anything about the offenses.
the fact that its a pro-style offense means that the quarterback has the whole field to cover, and has to read and manipulate the defense and go through his progressions. The spread offense that florida runs is DESIGNED to have a single player wide open and then a backup outlet – making it roughly a 1 1/2 to 2 receiver read.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
really?
can you give me some of the “tape” you’re referring to? i lost my connex that were getting me coach’s tape
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
or you could watch a game replay. nbc has them all.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
So that’s Tebow’s fault that Urban Meyer ran a scheme that ALWAYS had a wide open receiver and a safety valve? Wow. Shame on him. If only Buffalo had an offense like that…. Passing should be secondary to running in Buffalo anyways. Our problem for years now was not getting the running game straightened out. Like the Jets this past year, if you can run the ball it keeps your QB from screwing things up.
no, its not his fault, but when you know that the number one option in your play call is going to be wide open, it certainly takes reading the defense and being super accurate out of the equation. there aren’t going to be guys wide open like that in the nfl.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
With all respect, that's impossible Brian
How can you possibly separate the man from the player when the player has his non-football beliefs written on his face?
by bflobob8 on Jan 28, 2010 3:21 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Do you problems with Marshawn Lynch too?
… or all the other guys with a variety of tattoo statements all over the body. I don’t have a problem with ink. I do have a problem with hit and runs. I don’t think you’ll have hit and runs with Tebow.
Other QBs
That’s all true, but there’s no reason to believe guys like Clausen, Bradford, McCoy, Pike, Snead, etc. would have off the field issues either.
Do A Little Research
Clausen’s in a gang at South Bend
Bradford’s a sex addict
McCoy has been caught with guns in the locker room
Snead is in Al Queda
All this stuff will come out before the draft. Tebow will be the only one standing.
by MrFurious1 on Jan 28, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
that’s hilarious
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
that's true about snead.
that’s why i hate him so much.
that and that he stinks.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
So let me get this straight
As long as Tim Tebow fixes everything he’ll be a good football player? Cuz that’s what it sounds more and more like.
by mob16151 on Jan 28, 2010 3:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think people are missing the point on Tebow. Gailey will tailor an offense to cater to his best available talent. If he has Tebow, maybe he’ll actually say “screw it” to what’s normal in the NFL and make a gameplan to get say 150-200yds passing and 30-50 yards rushing out of Tebow and 80-100 yds out of Lynch/Jackson. You minimize the risk while getting the most out of your players. Vick had what was probably his best year in Atlanta when they installed an option-type offense for about half to three-quarters of a season before losing their minds and turning back to making vick a “pocket” passer.
That’s the problem with the NFL – No one really ever sticks with real new ideas. Even in the Atlanta example above, where the plan was working, the coaches scrapped the plan to be more “normal”. Everyone is so wrapped up in history that they fail to see a different path to the future. Maybe in Buffalo’s case, with the weather and everything late in the season, the advantage would be a non-traditional offense. The Jets made it work for the most part – rush, rush, rush some more and hope to hit on a bomb or two. I think Tebow is more dynamic than Sanchez and we could execute that offense quite well.
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Tebow
Id have zero problems trying a Tim Tebow era in Buffalo. With Gailey’s creativity and Tebow’s mental makeup I’d take my chances. At least it would be exciting again.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
I have zero problems trying a Tim Tebow era in Buffalo cuz they’ve tried everything else and failed miserably.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
by thatguy34 on Jan 28, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
I’m with you. Also, I said it above somewhere -
To those of you who want to bring in Michael Vick -
What about Tebow?
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I would actually look on bringing Vick in as a prerequisite to bringing in Tebow. If you’re going to have a running QB, you’re probably going to need more than one because they’re probably going to get dinged up pretty bad during the season. It might not hurt to keep a 3rd one on the shelf too, just in case.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 29, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is this
that would be an inverse relationship…. Tebow would be mentoring Vick, and probably teaching him the game at the same time.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
I have no problem with drafting Tebow....
in the second round. If we grabbed one of the top 3 OTs in the 1st round and then Colt McCoy, Tony Pike or Tebow in the second round I would be pretty excited.
Did you watch Tony Pike in the Bowl Game?
He didn’t belong on the same field as Tebow. Different supporting casts, but Tebow was a man among boys and Pike was barely a boy among boys.
Not the full thing
I only watched part of it. But I’m just saying I would be excited to take a 2nd round QB even if there are questions about that person. Tebow and Colt might be gone by then and I’d be ok with Pike.
by bills_niners on Jan 28, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
You didn’t see the real Cincinnati in that game. They had just been screwed over by their weasel head coach and then by the assistant coach.
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Tebow
Definitely has the leadership capabilities and confidence you look for. He is tough, fiery, competitive and reminds me of Kelly’s toughness. I would take a chance on Tebow, only because he will run for at least 3 yards any time he carries the ball. I believe he can learn a new system.
I can see this scenario more and more...
Tebow backing up Vick in 2010, in Buffalo.
The Dick Jauron version of the K-Gun...the Squirt Gun.
i would be for that
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Me 2
Let’s set the franchise back another 5 years
by mob16151 on Jan 28, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
ok. well i dont see how a veteran like vick would set the franchise back 5 years. or how having tebow back him up would either…
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not talking bout Vick
Im talking about Tebow. You figure he backs up Vick for 2 years,then plays for 3 seasons before we all realize what a horrible mistake we made drafting him. Thats a 5 year setback lol
eh
thats assuming in 2 years tebow cant learn or correct anything. which is a valid opinion i guess, but just as valid is the thought that he can….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Heard
Yeah heard coaches have tried to (fix) Tebow, might not be a good learner?
by buffalobacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
heard from where?
everything thats been said about tebow is he a smart qb with the drive to fix his mistakes. urban didnt do anything for that kid to transition to the nfl.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Read It
Sorry can’t remember were. But if he could fix his mechanic’s why hasn’t he? He must know his weaknesses right? Just saying…
by buffalobacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
because he has never had the need to until now
it worked in college behind one of the better lines in CFB. in the nfl he wont have that luxury or time back in the pocket.
honestly i think urban really screwed him. he didnt wanna mess with him mechanics because he didnt want tebow to re-learn everything and possibly bring his season in doubt (which i doubt it would). if you have been doing something for 23 years (ok maybe not that long but hes probably been playing since pretty young) and its always worked, would you change it?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
yes! as a good coach, YES!
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
I agree Silver
Why would Urban try to “fix him” when he was winning college titles. Lets be honest – Urban was paid to win titles in College, not to prepare players for the pros. Yeah some of that occurs of course – but first things first – the program comes first !
Woot, we agree on something :)
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Understood
Thank-you silverstreak3k..
by buffalobacker on Jan 29, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
vick is garbage
please don’t be open-minded to him… it’s sad
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It would be bold
I’d love it if we obtained Vick and drafted Tebow in the 2nd round. #1 it would make it pretty clear the type of offense we’d be running now and into the future, and Tebow could ease into whatever role Gailey makes for him and eventually take the reigns. It’s a very bold direction to go and sort of an “all in” move, but what the HELL do we have to lose?!?!?
Think about Vick. Think about Tebow. What could Vick do that Tebow can’t?
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Vick cheap? No way. He thinks he’s the best ever and using any draft picks to get him from the Eagles would be too much value. NFL resume, yes, but how does that really help in our situation?
I would help start the riot tha destroys the Ralph if that happened. I absolutly HATE that idea. Vick is overated and nowhere near the athelete that he used to be and Tebow will only make a good NFL QB if he changes everything that made him good in college. It’s not happening!
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
If you could combine them into one QB!!
by buffalobacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
If Vick peaks your interest, might as well draft Tebow and put him out there. He’d be better than Vick, experience or no. Vick isn’t worth the $$$ and the draft picks it would take to get him.
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
what makes you think vick will cost big $$ and draft picks? philly will NOT exercise their 2nd year option and he’ll be on the street.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Yeah, signing Vick wouldn’t be cheap, but that’s only because any QB signed to even compete for the starting job is expensive. Vick wouldn’t cost more than most other FAs that Buffalo could sign. Even though he was signed to be nothing more than a backup, Fitz costs Buffalo 3 mil a year. Unless Philly trades Kolb or McNabb, Vick isn’t going to cost the Bills any draft picks.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
im more than ok with Tebow
in the second round…McClain i will be crushed
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
if OBD passes on McClain to get Tebow, they should be shot on the spot.
But I can see Ralph and Russ counting the tickets they think they’ll be stealing from Jacksonville.
most of my posts get deleted :(
by dzil on Jan 28, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
McClain and several others… I would even go so far as to say that there are definitely more than 8 players who would be much better selections than Tebow, so there is no issue about the guy we wanted being snapped up ahead of us.
He is NOT a first round quarterback prospect and the fact that Jacksonville is resorting to gimmicks to get people into the stadium should not be forcing the Bills to take late second round players at 9. This does nothing but dilute the sparse talent level here already.
by uPitt_BillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 3:14 AM EST up reply actions
Please Buffalo we have to take Tim at #9. Otherwise Bill Belicik will take him and I will hate N.E. even more (is that possible).
This kid can turn our franchise around.
Tim is what we need!!!!!!!!
I’ve heard of QBs that have have trouble with various things like throwing the long out or can’t read a D but “has trouble with the snap” could be a problem I would think.
i think you are over-simplyfying
and the snap thing is probably the easiest thing he will learn
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
and he's already learned it
he had trouble with it for one day.
he then played really well the next day in practice, before having to go to the hospital he was so sick…
it seems like that’s a weird thing to criticize him for.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Please people. Please look up Danny Weurffle. Please look up what they said about him when he was in college, what they said about him as a pro prospect, and what he did in the NFL. I understand that Tebow is a different guy, but Tim Tebow is a long term project at quarterback if any team actually wants to do that.
I would rather have ten QBs from this draft than Tim Tebow, and I’d rather not draft any of ’em except Sam Bradford.
We don’t need a developmental project. We need a guy who can start and lead this team in year one or two at the latest. Tim Tebow is not that guy.
Please look up Danny Weurffle…. I understand that Tebow is a different guy
So why even bring it up if they’re different?
Wuerffle had no arm strength. That’s not really Tebow’s issue.
I don’t really have a strong opinion one way or the other, but I definitely think there’s a lot there (leadership, track record) that the Bills will certainly give consideration to (particularly since leadership was a weakness of Edwards).
I brought it up for exactly this point.
Weurffle was a leader. He was a winner. He was charismatic and his team bled for him.
No, arm strength isn’t Tebow’s problem. But footwork, accuracy, release time, and playing under center weren’t Weurffle’s problem. His problem was that, while being a leader, a winner, and at the time one of the greatest college quarterbacks ever, he simply wasn’t an NFL quarterback.
My point is that when the scouts say that, you should listen.
i know
that i rewatch Brady running his 40 over and over to admire his awkward movement as well as his bad hair. he still isn’t that great. throws an awful lot of 2yd passes in that system that just happened to feature the “best talent money could buy”. starts at the line. and quick decision making. luckily they knew exactly what defense people were calling play to play so they could give him his hot reads in the helmet as he lined up. Cheats. Couldn’t you have picked ANYONE else? haha
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
which only proves the point that it starts at the line.
like i said… in a system with short passes and run heavy, 2 or 3 yard passes are sufficient and effective when you regularly deal with the elements (weather) of the northeastern U.S.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
whoops...
that was supposed to be in response to the rest of this “debate”
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Brady had the complete opposite concerns that Tebow does. He was an accurte passer with good footwork and mechanics. His concerns were being a terrible athlete and having very average arm strength. He was rail thin in college too. In the pros, he bulked up which helped his arm strength a little (he still has an average arm). Brady is great because of his ability to see the field, make quick decisions and then accurate, well timed throws.
Kurt Warner was a one year starter for Northern Iowa. He went undrafted for a reason.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
You are insane
if you think Tom Brady has and average arm
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I mean arm strength. As in how long the ball is in the air from the time it leaves his hand to the time it gets to the WR. And by average, I mean of all the starting QBs, Brady is right in the middle. And it’s true, if Brady threw a ball like Drew Bledsoe did, he wouldn’t have gone in the 6th round. Drew Brees has one of the weakest arms in the league. Doesn’t stop them from being great because they compensate for it in so many ways. Decision making, accuracy, field vision, etc…
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Drew Brees has one of the weakest arms in the league.
I understand what you’re saying, but that’s a serious overstatement.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
I mean amongst starters, not every QB in the league. Brees has the weakest arm of the 20 or so best QBs in the league. I think the only starters with worse arm strength are fringy guys like Kyle Orton. And you can see it in Brees’ throws too. It’s not like they float in there like Pennington sometimes does, but Brees really has to put everything into his throws. When he goes downfield, he tends to put his entire body into throws and he has a bit of a windup to put as much mustard on the ball as he can. Brees more than compensates for the arm strength with tremendous reads and decisions, but take him out of that dome and he throws picks like he’s Jay Cutler.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
take him out of that dome and he throws picks like he’s Jay Cutler.
interesting comparison, seeing as cutler has a rocket on his right shoulder.
Brees has thrown 19 picks in his last 16 road games. Seems like you’re probably right.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
rocket arm
isn’t necessarily the key to success given the names listed above. and ask jp how it did for him. how about jamarcus russell? perhaps it matters more whether or not you have an opportunity to complete a pass before you get crushed
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Ummm, Not really!
That in fact was the #1 hit and reason he was let go by SD after a Pro Bowl year. Maybe not correctly, but…
Noodle arm brother.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
SD actually offered him a large contract, but a lot of the money was incentive based. They were unsure whether or not his shoulder would recover after undergoing surgery, it clearly has… his arm strength wasn’t much of a concern
by billsfan4life on Jan 29, 2010 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
Certain intagibles can't be argued.
and that should be our hope and expectation until that isn’t the case. when we settle, know that our crutch should and will hopefully be the run game. Run some clock, stifle some opponents with turnovers, and win. by a point, a safety, a field goal; i don’t care how we win, so long as we win.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
they
said that about kurt warner too…. and tom brady… they also said ryan leaf was good…
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Kurt Warner couldn’t win the starting job at Northern Iowa University until he was a 5th year senior. He’s also the complete opposite style of player that Tebow is. I’m not sure how a QB could be less relevant to a discussion about Tebow.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Warner also took that 1-AA NIU team that went 11-2 and then 12-2 in the two previous seasons to an awesome 8-4 record.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
it's relevant
because we’re talking about scouts opinions and how they don’t always matter, try to keep up
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, scouts sometimes miss, but when they ALL agree on something, I find it hard to believe that they would all be wrong.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
They all agreed that Flutie was too short and that Warner would never make an NFL quarterback,
Scouts – even collectively – are wrong all the time, just in most cases where they mostly agree it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. When a guy isn’t given a chance right away, except in rare cases, they disappear.
There is no way to quantify how much scouts as a whole miss on. If a guy doesn’t fit a profile, they don’t get a chance.
To make it personal (in a Bills sense) – scouts missed on Fred Jackson.
by syrbillsfan on Jan 29, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
The thing with Flutie and Warner is that they would have been huge busts had they been an early round NFL pick. I think that Flutie needed that time in the CFL. He wasn’t a scouting mistake. He was a late bloomer who needed to grow his ability in order to compensate for his lack of size and arm strength.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Agreed. And I see Tebow needing close to the same amount of time that both Warner and Flutie needed (Flutie 8 years, Warner 5 years). Tebow will realisticly need 3 full seasons on the bench (more in my honest opinion, but 3 still seems like a fair number) beforehe’s a suitable NFL QB. I have no faith in the Bills ability to give him that time, which is why I think that he would be a bust for us and why I don’t want us t pick him.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
No
he needed to prove he could do it…. then he needed an opportunity. No one gave him a shot.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Flutie spent four years in the NFL before heading over to the CFL. He didn’t even do well in his first CFL season. Flutie wouldn’t have been a good starter in the NFL early in his career.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Eaxctly, it took him an entire season in an inferior league to actually perfect his style of play in the pros. But then he won 6 MVP’s in the next 7 seasons. I’m not saying that it will take that long for Tebow to come around, but maybe he could use a year or two in a “minor league” too ;-)
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, getting frustrated
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Still not sure where Warner fits. Nobody thought Kurt Warner would be an NFL QB. It took him like 5 years after college to work his way back into the league. He wasn’t a misevaluation by scouts. He was a guy who wasn’t good enough to be an NFL QB when he was in his early 20s and then grew into a great player later on. Just to point out how long it took for Warner to figure things out, he was draft eligible in 1992 where guy like Troy Vincent and Desmond Howard were first round picks. The Bills took John Fina. That’s how long it took for Warner to develop and find his way back to the NFL.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
The point is....
Everyone was wrong not give the kid a chance, time after time…. when Kurt Warner spoke about it he never said he didn’t deserve a shot in his early years… he just didn’t get one until later on… even still it took an injury to prove that scouts don’t get everything right… and that’s my point… that’s how kurt warner fits in here.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
Of course a guy that took 5 years to get to the NFl to quickly become MVP will say that he never got a shot. Warner doesn’t fit here.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
But Green Bay did give him a chance and he couldn’t cut it. I think Warner is an exception to stuff like this. He’s a unique story that doesn’t really apply to stuff like Tebow. Then again, I’m also a guy who thinks that Flutie would have been a complete and total bust had he not had all that time in the CFL to grow into a player who could compensate for all his weaknesses. A lot of people would disagree with that, but to each, their own.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Jan 29, 2010 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahahaa
he couldn’t cut it when they already had established back-ups and Brett Favre on the roster!! Just stop it already. They brought Warner into to camp to have a look-see. He wasn’t overly impressive physically, so what more could they tell when you’re taking a few reps to maybe land on a practice squad?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
But if he were at all decent, wouldn’t a 2nd team have given him a looksie? Did Northern Iowa not scout him correctly when he sat on their bench for four years? Did Northern Iowa not know how to get the best out of him when they had their worst season in five years? If Kurt Warner were any good, why was he playing for Northern Iowa, why wasn’t he starting there and why did it take him a couple years in the Arena league to even get a tryout with an NFL team? He wasn’t good enough for the NFL.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Danny Weurffel
was drafted in the 4th round for a reason…. the only similarities between Tebow and him are they are both good people and played QB for the Florida Gators (and they won titles).
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 28, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
and heismans
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Agree 100%
If we’re going to spend an early pick on a QB I want it to be on someone that can start IMMIDIETLY, not a project that might make it someday. Let someone else develop him, I don’t want him.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
If we’re going to spend an early pick on a QB I want it to be on someone that can start IMMIDIETLY
I’m not sure that guy exists in this year’s draft.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Exactly why I don’t want us to draft a QB in this draft. I think that we should concentrate on the O-Line and the LB corps in the first 3 rounds and then go to BPA.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow? What about the Bills
Enough about Tebow being a Bill. Can the Bills handle Tebow? The past decade+, Buffalo hasn’t been able to develop a franchise level QB. What makes anyone think they can mold this very raw player into the QB that this team desperately needs? I know there is a new coaching staff in place/coming, but QB development hasn’t been this teams strong point.
I know there is a new coaching staff
What other factors are there in developing a QB? It’s all about picking the right guy and then coaching him up. The failures of past QBs are completely irrelevant.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
well, if you want comparisons of tebow, look no further than Vince Young. Everybody criticized him coming out. Spread formation this, running qb that, cant read a defense, his mechanics are screwed up, his delivery is awkward. The biggest difference between the two of them is the definate leadership qualities. However, funny what a strong running game will do to help you out. Anyhow, Young just seems to win even if it was in between a mental meltdown.
i don’t know if its a great comparison, young is much bigger and much more athletic than tebow is. that makes a huge difference. While tebow is a bruiser, and it looked good in college, hes not going to be running away from or over nfl linebackers.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow's a pretty darn good athlete
and Tebow’s body is built to withstand a lot more hits than Vince’s.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
How so? Is it because he’s bigger than Young? our “squarer” in the shoulders? Fact is he’s still going to take a ton of hits in the NFL and he will not have any success trying to go head to head with NFL LB’s like he’s been doing in college. if you depend on Tebow’s “I’ll run over you” mentality then you will be greatly disapointed.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he will.
he will not have any success trying to go head to head with NFL LB’s like he’s been doing in college
How many coaches will design a gameplan where Tebow is running at LB’s all day? none.
As for how is Tebow’s body built to withstand more hits than Young’s? he’s 2 inches shorter and is still 15 pounds heavier. He’s built to take more hits the way that Marshawn Lynch is built to withstand more hits than Calvin Johnson. He’s thicker and heavier through the torso and trunk. He’s harder to snap like a twig.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
How many coaches will design a gameplan where Tebow is running at LB’s all day? none.
You just proved my point. Hes ability to run down/go head to head with LBs in college is his biggest asset. As soon as you take it out all you haveleft an inaccurate QB and a slow release and poor reading skills, but good feet. To me that sounds more like the next Ryan Fitzpatrick then the next Steve Young (or any other QB with good feet that you can mention).
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
As soon as you take it out all you haveleft an inaccurate QB and a slow release and poor reading skills, but good feet.
actually all you have left is one of the best athletes in the draft with a slow release, untested reading skills, a good arm, good feet, great mobility and great intangibles. He’s still worth a shot as an NFL QB.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Colour me unimpressed. A lot of QB’s came with those descriptions; JP Losman and Kerry Collins come to mind.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
those guys are hardly good comps though
losman doesn’t have tebow’s size and was pretty darn dumb, whereas collins was an alcoholic and doesn’t have near Tebow’s athleticism.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Ok I’l concede that those are very bad comparisons, but you get my point.
Listen I’m not going to say that Tebow will never fix his horrible mechanics, or will never be a good NFL QB, but that doesn’t mean that he’ll be a good QB for us. I think his chances of becoming a good NFL QB on any team are low; and I think that he has no chance of becoming a good QB if his on the Bills. I just have no faith in the Bills ability to turn him into a quality starter.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry that we didn’t get lazy and decided to start dropping letters. ;-)
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
all you haveleft an inaccurate QB
seriously? does no one keep up with his accuracy stats? did you see the fanshot i posted just this day saying his deep ball was probably best in the group at the senior bowl? hes having problems with his short game right now cuz he is trying to change his throwing motion. please i beg of you, reconsider the “inaccurate” argument….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
all people have to do is watch him play
and they will see he is accurate
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
I saw the highlight reals that you put up. All I saw were very loosly thrown balls to increadibly open receivers. 80% of those would have been in coverage in the NFL, 60% of which would not have been caught because of that coverage and 40% of those would have just been flat out intercepted because of how loose the spiral was and how slow the ball was to get to the receiver. I have never seen a “top prospect” throw so many floaters in my life! To me that is far from being accurate.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
lol
what are you, Rainman? The ball was where it needed to be when it needed to be there… and also, I don’t count watching a highlight reel I put up for people to have a look at his throwing motion as “watching him play.”
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
i love how you get recs for throwing out subjective criticism
80% this, 60% that….with no real documentation. i dont know how you havent seen the scouts (including todd mcdousche) say that he has probably the best down field accuracy of any of the qbs in the senior bowl….i dont know how/why you can explain away his completion % and int numbers by throwing out meaningless statistics….but ok. i see that convincing you that even though tebow has some flaw (some would argue many) accuracy (especially down field) is not one of them…
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
i didn’t see your fan shot, but i did see mcshay, kiper, and nfl scouts saying that his deep balls fluttered a ton and were unreliable. so ill take their word.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
VY is another QB I would want Buffalo to stay away from if he were in the draft...
I hate these QBs whose biggest weakness is THROWING THE FREAKIN’ BALL. Seriouslty, if we get down by 21, what are we gonna do, option left, option right up and down the field. Come on people, you fell in love with the guy as a college football player, and for some reason you cant separate your feelings for him when it comes to him being an NFL prospect.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
he is 18-11 as a pro.
it’s not pretty, but i’ve watched him beat the bills enough (twice in my memory) to respect him.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
ultimately
though, Tim Tebow is not Philip Rivers. That is the moral of the story here. i understand track record may be somewhat applicable; Brian has clearly pointed out that Buddy sees similarities to a NFL level QB in work ethic, leadership, and starts and wins. But that is probably about as much of a comparison as can be made. Conversely, I don’t know that spread is such a hindrance as it once was viewed to be, as ultimately many of the championship level teams play in a shotgun base formation for both running and passing (see AFC Champ Colts, NFC Champ Saints, Patriots (ugh, i know), Cardinals, etc etc… and Tebow’s ability to run the Ball means that it is basically and options system. or better yet, we could end up implementing an NFL-effective Option package that Gailey designed and no one even knows about…. or run from Wildcat with a viable recieving threat, because honestly, we may just be thinking QB to WR like so many others have. Smith with Jets or Randle El and how many others… So much speculation, so little ti.. oh wait. We have FOREVER (in football world) to speculate since the Draft is MONTHS away…. haha!
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
no no no
I agree with most annalists on Tebow. 3rd round prospect. I honestly don’t want to see him as our QB. Proven fact is that spread option QBs do not translate to the NFL.
Keepin' the faith!
Notice that this article said absolutely nothing about where the Bills might draft him. If we get him in the third round, what the heck is the problem?!
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Does it matter? The point isn’t to figure out where he might go, just to make sure everyone understands that this is a legitimate possibility, no matter where it occurs.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Do you honestly think there is anyone that doesn’t understand that this is a possibility? :-)
a.k.a. Undee
I think there are plenty of people who are trying to convince themselves that it isn’t.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and I know that it is a deffinate possibility. I just HATE the fact that it is.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
I think we all understand it’s a possibility. Likely around 10 teams will draft a QB at some stage and he’ll be one of the ones drafted – so I guess it’s about a 1 in 10 chance hey ?
I’m now worried Brian, you say this isn’t to debate where he will go – and thats true – I just hope this doesn’t mean another thread later to debate where he will go :(
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
by that I mean what Round he will go
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
at this point
is there anything that isn’t a possibility? ; )
i mean, really… we could see ANY move. Anything. I would say the only safe job lies on the newly hired coaching staff for at least 3 games. i wouldn’t stake much on anything else personally.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
There will be MUCH better players available.
no matter what round Tebow is still on the board, we have enough RBs.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
To T-Bow or not To T-Bow
One thing is for sure if he does end up in Buffalo the Bills will be on ESPN on a regular basis. He has as many weaknesses has he has strengths but his competitive fire is second to none, that alone will raise the level of play around him. Will he ever be a Peyton—no but he could be a bigger better Bernie Kosar who also had strange mechanics.
Do not compare T-Bow to Wuerffel the SEC was such a different conference back then, it was more like the old Big 10—-2 yards and a cloud of dust. Spurrier revolutionized the SEC with his wide open offense. The Gators forced the SEC to adapt and become the best conference in college football.
Nix had an interested comment “beware of the 1 year wonders” could that have been directed at Maybin?
As Wyatt Earp once said "You tell 'em I'm coming! And Hell's coming with me you hear! Hell's coming with me! ~
HA
That was the first one I thought of Goose. Maybin. Now, in all fairness, we still have to give Maybin a shot but I have not been a supporter of Maybins since day 1. He still has to prove me wrong that he was a bad pick.
"If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?"
~Vince Lombardi~
He Was
If you expected immed. impact, he was. But don’t blame the player, blame Dick& Co.
by buffalobacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Im good either way
Tebow comes to Buffalo… he sells tickets, he is a polarizing figure on and off the field, in a different, but in some ways similar to Mike Vick… I say this because Buffalo has been a battlefield for the abortion debate and Tebow in Buffalo would ruffle some feathers on both sides, good and bad.
All that aside, it would make for a very interesting and at times paiful first year for chan gailey if Tebow came in as the QB, either starting right away or sitting behind (who exactly ?) a vet QB.
Go Bills, tebow or not, but Tebow at least does what T.O. did as far as marketing, but at least has upside and is yougn as opposed to T.O. problem si it could yield the same results… none
Still waiting for the playoffs.... Go Bills 2010 !!!!
I still think
that considering Chan Gailey likes to build around QBs and their playing strengths trading for Vick and then drafting Tebow at 9 is very much in the cards.
We lack a lot of offensive personnel at all positions but running back. Developing a system for a mobile quarterback would make a lot of sense.
Also, people are so vehemently against Tebow but I actually think he has a lot less bust potential than most 1st round quarterbacks. Best case scenario? You have an amazing franchise signal caller with high character and leadership qualities. Worst case scenario? You have the best special teams player in the league. Don’t tell me if a coach told Tim Tebow he needed him to fly down the field and hit the returner as hard as he could that Tebow wouldn’t work his butt of to be the best special teamer in the league. In between there are a lot of options. Maybe you play him at safety? Maybe at fullback? Maybe hes just a good quarterback? Either way, a team will find a way to use Tebow.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
One thing I wish someone would address
is Tebow’s running style. His success in college had a lot to do with QB draws, sneaks, and keeper options. He usually tried to run over tacklers. That was a huge part of his identity as a QB.
Would you want your franchise QB running head first into defenders multiple times a game? If not, can Tebow be as effective at the next level one you remove an important dimension to his presence?
a.k.a. Undee
by Undee on Jan 28, 2010 5:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
Is anyone who is posting about TT’s intangibles overcoming his mechanics willing to think about this? Those intangibles people are getting off on are mainly his drive and toughness. Is he going to be even one half the threat if the team needs him to stay healthy, and asks him to run less, or slide?
He was a super threat in school because of this two-dimensional game. I am having a super hard time reading all this, when this (to me) glaring problem is overlooked and ignored. No NFL team is going to let Tim play the same way he did at Florida; he will have to rely more on passing.
Seriously. Please take this into account when you start having the weTebow dreams.
a.k.a. Undee
tebow has played with broken bones before
i dont think staying healthy will be a big concern. of course he wont run that much/well in college. his “game” was not predicated on the fact that he can run inasmuch as it was predicated that the team was more of a run first type approach (especially last year). add that to the fact that if the pocket broke down or he didnt make a read in time, he could run you over. thus the discussion on whether he would be able to effectively learn to read a defense so his 3rd option was another WR/RB/TE rather than running. tebows success in the nfl will not be predicated on his ability to run. his success in college was not predicated on his ability to run. there were many rushers in that backfield. tebow was mainly used as short yardage type player. no one game-planned for tebow to be running all up and down the field.
ive documented very well his throwing ability in my fanpost, maybe you should read that before spouting off that no one is looking at just his throwing ability. your argument (in my opinion) is moot.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
I read your fanpost, though your ‘style’ made it difficult.
his success in college was not predicated on his ability to run.
HAhaHAhahah!!! Let’s ask the stats….
Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2006 FLA 22 33 66.7 358 10.8 5 55 1 201.73
2007 FLA 234 350 66.9 3286 9.4 32 66 6 172.47
2008 FLA 192 298 64.4 2746 9.2 30 70 4 172.37
2009 FLA 213 314 67.8 2895 9.2 21
Rushing Stats
YEAR TEAM ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2006 FLA 89 469 5.3 29 8 0 0 0
2007 FLA 210 4.3 25 23 0 0 0
2008 FLA 176 673 3.8 26 12 0 0 0
2009 FLA 217 910 4.2 55 14 0 0 0
Would you like me to do the pass/run comparison for you? Take off the goggles, silver.
a.k.a. Undee
by Undee on Jan 28, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i dont have googles on
please people come up with different insults.
throw out all the rushing stats you want. it still doesnt mean i was wrong. they ran him almost EVERY 3rd and short and goal line situation. that will lead up to alot of runs. he wasnt out there micheal vicking it.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
please people come up with different insults.
Please learn to use punctuation and the ‘shift’ key. Happy?
a.k.a. Undee
someone is bitter
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
i dont know if this is sarcastic or not
but please know i never try to be belligerent. i do respect your opinion, i just think its wrong.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Not sarcastic
I would like to remain on good terms with everyone here, disagreements or not.
a.k.a. Undee
When will y’all learn that this crap pisses me off? :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree...
no one game-planned for tebow to be running all up and down the field.
they ran him almost EVERY 3rd and short and goal line situation. that will lead up to alot of runs. he wasnt out there micheal vicking it.
These are contradictory points, you said that he wasn’t running up and down the field, they simply ran him on EVERY 3rd down. Like the other teams didn’t know he was gonna run it, they didn’t gameplan against it? No one was afraid of Tebow throwing the ball, that is the only reason he was even able to complete any passes.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
No one was afraid of Tebow throwing the ball, that is the only reason he was even able to complete any passes.
I actually just saw the same sentence under the entry “hyperbole” in the dictionary.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
he is one of the best short yardage runners in college football
sometimes you can gameplan for 3rd and shot but not stop them…..tebow was basically used for this instance. that was my point. i dont see how a short yardage back means they dont expect him to throw…..he threw for almost 10000 yards in three seasons….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
pretty easy thing to do when you have to face the vaunted charleston southern defense. and troy. and fiu.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
and alabama (twice)
and lsu, and uga, and fsu, and tennessee…….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
yeah saying he didn’t play good enough defenses is a losing argument.
if there’s anyplace in college where the defenses even approach NFL defenses, it’s the southeastern conference.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Rec'd a 1000X over
I was writing a reply to SS3K, but it wouldn’t post for some reason. I was making the same basic point, he ran more than he threw. He is an option/running QB, not an NFL QB.
Another part of my reply was a question to everyone:
Why do you all think that Tebow will be a leadre in the Pros? Remember, these aren’t kids who have always looked up to Tebow (talking about UF players), these are PRO athletes that have put in the time and effort into their profession. They will not see Tebow as some savior or leader, they will see him as an over-hyped, preachy RB who talks too much about non-football related topics.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
tebow came in as a freshman
and demanded respect from seniors….
of course we wont know exactly what happens when he hits the pros, but i think thats at least some evidence of his ability to lead
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
How do you know he demanded respect from Seniors?
Bcuz they didn’t go out in the media and blast the guy that had 4 rushing TDs in the game they just one? You will never know, but I bet the UF WRs would have respected Clausen/Bradford/McCoy more than Tebow. Since they would have benefited more from a better, or should I say true QB.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
yeah i bet florida receivers are pissed at their two national championships. they must hate tim tebow.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
That is true, but if I were a UF WR...
Yes I would be estactic to win the national championship, not once, but twice. But I would have a hard time living the rest of my life wondering what would have happened had I gone to a team with a true QB, maybe I could have been in the NFL.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
these guys are ending up in the NFL.
harvin is the NFL. Guys like Cooper will be drafted this year. Maybe they’ll wonder what could have been, but these guys aren’t going unnoticed. they play at florida.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
You make a valid point...
My point doesn’t actually go against your though, I was referring to the older players on the team. Much like he would be facing on his new NFL team.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough, we've strayed far from your original point.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
dont forget nelson
who is out playing heyward bey on the raiders.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
im an idiot
i meant luis murphy. i always think that kids name is nelson for some reason….
and mark my words riley cooper will be a great 2nd wr in this league
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
hmm…i don’t know about that. he was one of my least favorite florida receivers…isnt he under contract with a mlb baseball team?
he chose nfl over mlb
giving back his signing bonus. and cooper has had a great senior bowl practice.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, you're a Gators Fan!!!
Nothing you have to say on the topic counts. You’re prejudiced by your heart and your want to see Tebow succeed.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
In silver's defense.
You want to see tebow succeed.
accurate.
Dude, you’re a Gators fan!!! nothing you have to say on the topic counts.
inaccurate. Is that the same reason why nothing you have to say about the bills should count?
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
by JPH on Jan 29, 2010 3:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wouldnt me being a gators fan
make me more knowledgeable? ive seen almost all of his games and heard every bit of criticism. i know im not neutral, but thats ok i think. everything i say is backed up and usually documented.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
your right
im not in the huddle. i just know what i saw on tv. he was the qb in critical points in a lot of games as a freshman. im sure you cant do that without respect. but alas, no one really knows….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
That is a coaches decision
not the players…
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
have you ever stepped into a huddle?
been a qb? even at high school level? honestly asking… cuz i have, and if those guys dont respect you, youll never be put in.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
heh.
I was making the same basic point, he ran more than he threw
heh. no he didn’t. Did he run more than your average QB? Yeah. but he threw more than he ran.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Sorry, I quickly counted the Completions rather than the Attempts sicne they didn't line up...
my bad, but he still ran way more than he will be exptected to in the NFL, the point remains.
TEBOW SUCKS at throwing the football accurately, or on time, or to the correct read, or in a tight spiral, or on the right foot-fall.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
my bad, but he still ran way more than he will be exptected to in the NFL, the point remains.
absolutely true.
TEBOW SUCKS at throwing the football accurately, or on time, or to the correct read, or in a tight spiral, or on the right foot-fall.
1. The complaint isn’t that he makes bad reads, it’s that he’s never been forced to make many reads
2. Everything I’ve read about his accuracy and arm strength so far at the senior bowl has been very positive.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
I never mentioned his arm strength, that is not a problem for him, but his accuracy is the biggest concern I have.
We might be reading different reports, while they have said that he is did better today than his first two days, his accuracy has not improved, nor has his footwork.
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
his short game accuracy has not improved
his down field accuracy is pretty much dead on
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
nobody is saying Tebow is a sure thing
but I wouldn’t mind if we drafted him at all. The potential is there. I think when all is said and done Sam Bradford will be the guy who everyone wants. But I wouldn’t be upset with Tebow at all. In fact, I’d be happy, he brings a lot to the table and is versatile.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
And I am not saying he doesn't have potential
all I want to point out is most people who are huge supporters are only using the ‘toughness and leadership and intangibles’ argument to counter his throwing concerns. I highly doubt he would sustain that against NFL defenses.
a.k.a. Undee
you dont think "toughness"
and “leadership” and “intangibles” will be sustained in the pros? what?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
how does leadership go away
cuz of an injury? or concussion? was kelly not as good of a leader after the many concussions he had?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
When ?
Poz, you hit it on the head. I’d love Bradford firstly – but assuming he is gone at 9 we miss out. My Q is when do you think Tebow is worth picking – if we did ? Please don’t say “9”
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Why
Why is Tebow dismissed because he played in a spread offense but Bradford isn’t?
I think Tebow needs more time to adjust than Bradford, but that Bradford isn’t going to get too much better than what you saw at Oklahoma. Also Oklahoma plays one of the weakest schedules in all of Division 1.
They were asked to do very different things. Bradford played out of the shotgun, but his players ran pro routes, even option routes and Bradford was asked to read both sides of the field.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
whats a pro route?
compared to what the uf wrs ran? the same wr that was offensive rookie of the year this year, and another rookie that is out performing the round one pick in oakland. and the same kind of route-running that will make riley cooper a good prospect. which oklahoma wrs are making a name for themselves in the nfl? maybe their “pro” routes arent really that different… just sayin
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow
I didn’t really like him in college that much. I’ve always felt that he’s overrated because I mean he played in one of the highest rated school for draft classes. Also, I really wasn’t a fan of the offensive style he played in. However, the more I think about Tebow in Buffalo the more I think I might like the idea. Think about it, a guy with a work ethic unlike anyone on our roster. A guy committed to doing whatever he can to win without any excuses. A guy who will not accept losing. A guy who will work on his game until he’s a winner. A guy who will adapt to the game he’s playing in to win. And lastly, a guy who will leave every single thing he has on the field. I think that’s the kind of guy I want to be the leader of my team. Granted there is no one in the league like Tebow. I think he could become one of the toughest QBs in the league instantly. I’d take a shot at him. Maybe not at 9 but maybe trade up for him? Lynch and a 3 round pick to get near the top of the second?
by billsfan26 on Jan 28, 2010 5:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
you do know both oklahoma and ND had very high draft classes too right?
this argument that he has all the talent no one else has is so bogus….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
recruiting classes, but yeah
and he had the pleasure of playing against the best defenses in the country every week, which Clausen and Bradford absolutely did not.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
troy, charleston southern, kentucky…
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
yeah this argument doesn’t fly.
look at any other qb’s schedule and compare em.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
really? a division i-aa team has one of the best defenses in the country? all i ask is a little objectivity here. no, nevada isn’t great, but at least it plays in the same division.
by quantumuprising on Jan 28, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
this comment would hold water if Tebow only played division i-aa teams.
but tebow also played florida state, alabama, georgia, miss. state, lsu, south carolina…
the fact that tebow plays in the SEC means he plays against the best defenses in college football, bar none. the fact that he played a couple warmup games against some bad teams is meaningless, especially since his team hardly struggled with those guys.
a division i-aa team has one of the best defenses in the country?
who the heck said that?
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
the guy above said
he had the pleasure of playing against the best defenses in the country every week.
just making the point that in fact, he did not.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 8:11 AM EST up reply actions
his conference schedule.
sorry he didn’t specify that the warmups at the beginning weren’t as tough. But the guy has played 30+ conference games in the SEC. To suggest that ANYONE has played more difficult competition is asinine.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
hah. ok. a different sec quarterback does count.
but yeah, the guy was comparing notre dame’s schedule to florida’s. that is asinine.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
or that tony pike played a hard schedule
or dan lefeavour.
quantum…..who has won the bcs the last 4 years? who has had two out of the last 3 heismans?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
im not denying that the sec is full of great defenses. however, the guy said every week tebow is playing top defenses. i illustrated that isn’t true, that there are some cupcakes in there. i didn’t say that notre dame had as tough a schedule as florida; but using nevada as an example like saying they are the hardest team notre dame faced while not including charleston southern and troy on florida’s schedule is dishonest.
also, using the heisman trophy as a trump card isn’t really in your favor, considering the success of most heisman winners in general.
in terms of the bcs, look at the winning quarterbacks from some of those teams – flynn, leinart, young, leak – not making an overwhelming splash in the nfl for guys that had all sorts of talent and experience in college. saying that just cause a guy came from the sec and played in big games isn’t a defacto statement of future potential. the coach and the system play a huge part in it.
chances are, if a guy like clausen had also had an sec defense behind him, his record would have been much different.
by quantumuprising on Jan 29, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
gotcha
yea no one plays the hardest defenses week in and week out. just pointing out that he had very tough games throughout his entire career.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
There isn’t a single team in the SEC whose defense isn’t in the top 50 in the country… I think Vandy and Miss St are the only 2 that fall outside of that
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
and, as a vanderbilt student, I would like to defend their D
which was actually very good, except that our offense was dead last in all of division 1 in time of possession. As bills fans, you all know what that does to a defense.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Nevada
Nevada has been for the last several years been one of the WORST pass defenses in the country.
so when talking about a QB’s opponents this is Huge, its like playing a D2 school
The SEC is without question the best conference in college football with the best defenses (Tennessee, Alabama, LSU, Florida, etc..).
by uPitt_BillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 4:01 AM EST up reply actions
Second best comment on this thread today… : )
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow is already on my list.....
I myself understand that Tebow isnt your so-called prototypical QB. He has what most call flaws in his mechanics, some say he looks to run too much, some seem to think its easier to play in the spread (rightfully so). Let me ask you this. Pro style or spread offense a QB still has to be able to throw the ball to his receivers, correct? They still have to make plays? The answer to both as we all know, is “yes”. Is he the most accurate? Probably not. But will he come in here and bring those intangible that are missing from a lifeless Bills team?
The one major intangible I see with Tebow is “Passion”. To be honest, he reminds me of my favorite Bills QB, #12, Jim Kelly when it comes to passion and heart. He will do anything it takes to help the team win. He has done that throughout his career at Florida. To me, I am willing to accept the fact that he has flaws in his mechanics according to the “experts”. The experts have said that with just about every QB prospect coming out. But when you have that passion, that fire and that heart, that usually nullifies flaws in your mechanics. This passion also resonates throughout a team as a whole. They take on the leaders attitude and fire. Bottom line, if there is a chance we could land Tebow in the late 1st round or early 2nd, then I think it would be an excellent move by the Bills.
"If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?"
~Vince Lombardi~
Who’s the last left handed quarterback to play for the Bills? – I don’t know. We haven’t had many in the 30 years I’ve been alive.
I don’t know that they’ve ever had one. I’m a lefty and would love to see it ( that style) happen for the Bills.
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"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Pearl Jam - Unthought Known
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 28, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
michael vick is left-handed
that’s another reason to be worried about the likelihood of a vick-tebow 1-2 tandem. ugh.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Lets hope that Chan has something against lefties. ;-)
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah definitely righty.
YES WE CHAN!
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by MattRichWarren on Jan 30, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
man-crush's
For those who think Tebow is lasting till the late 1st or early 2nd are living in a dream world. He’s not. His stock will only go up. think about it. His stock is already high and all the mechanic, footwork, one dimensional, etc etc, problems are known….. GM’s and coaches are going to meet him, watch film and have man crush’s on him from now till the draft. any good coach will think they can find ways to get him on the field and validate a high draft pick. He will show improvement in workouts, and his stock is only going up. Get used to Tebow talk now cause it’s only getting worse, and my guess is all the talking heads are only going to fuel the Buffalo hype. Me, I’m not sold on him, but i know the Bills could do a lot worse than drafting Tebow. high character guy with tremendous upside (yea, thats right, i said it) ….comes to Buffalo and at the very least gives the team some visibility. If nothing else, it will mean a team like N.E, NYJ, Miami, etc don’t get him and to me thats equally as important.
south-paw takes emphasis off LT to a degree
not sure if anyone has mentioned this in their comments, i only had time to read Brians article.
i hate watching southpaws throw a football… but that aside, they take the emphasis on the LT and switch it to the RT (their blind side). now before you say…. duh. it’s not exactly the same to edge rush on the right side as it is the left. most guys are just a hair slower on one side than they are on another.
it can have it’s benefits.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
by kgun201 on Jan 28, 2010 6:08 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
good point kgun
i didnt really think about that at all.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Rec’d simply for the objectivity.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
My room mate and I discuss this point on a consistent basis. I am not an o-line guru, but my room mate is of the belief that while it takes the emphasis off of the LT, it puts more of an emphasis on the RT, usually a different type of player, namely a mauler who isn’t the greatest pass blocker. He also thinks it might change up some of the line calls and shifts, and linemen who have played for a right handed QB their entire careers might get tripped up a little because it is against their instincts. So while it might slow down the pass rushers who change positions from RE to LE, it might also slow down the o-line. Also with receivers who may not be used to catching the ball from a lefty. Different spiral, different point of reference. These are all things to consider with a lefty.
Another good point.
But I would guess the disadvantages you mention for the offense would be reduced over time, by getting used to the nuance. Opposing teams’ defenses would still mostly play right-handed QBs, and would not have the same adjustment period.
a.k.a. Undee
Do you know any Pro Football GM that is going to play his hand before the draft? This talk by Nix IMO is just to get our focus off of what Buffalo is actually looking for. If he is available in the 2nd or 3rd round I could see them taking Tebow otherwise I would be very suprised if they took him at #9.
Having said that I think the Bills are going to go the way of a play maker / game changer type like Dez Bryant with there first pick, unless of course Clausen and (not likely) Bradford is still available.
I agree that quotes from Nix about Tebow are pretty meaningless. Every GM in the league is going to be asked about Tim Tebow and does anybody think that a GM would ever say bad things about him? Say that he isn’t worth an early pick, won’t be able to play QB in the pros, has serious flaws or anything like that? Obviously, when Nix is asked a question about Tebow, he’s going to say positive things. Doesn’t mean a thing.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I’m not sure they’re meaningless. They don’t say a lot, but they don’t say nothing, either.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
That’s true. I should say, in general, they’re meaningless. Like, if I said, Nix said “positive things” about Tebow. That would be a meaningless comment. If Nix said that Tebow throws a great deep ball, or that he loves the kind of leader he is. Those comments do offer some insight. But it’s definitely important to understand that there are probably 31 other GMs out there saying good things to the local media about to Tim Tebow.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Spot On
Re the fact they usually talk about guys they wont take and usually say nothing about the guys they will draft. All this smokescreen stuff.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Seriosly WR????
Dude that´ about the 4th or 5th position we should be thinking about.
In the 1st round is either LT or QB and nothing else “McClain fans”.
For everyme that´s saying we should get Tim in the secound round, you´re nuts, He´s not gonna be there trust me the guy is only gonna get better and better and by the time the draft comes, his stock is only gonna go higher and higher.
When it comes to evaluating quarterbacks, there are no rules.
Jeff Tedford QB’s stink. Except for Aaron Rodgers.
Spread QB’s can’t win in the NFL. Except Vince Young.
Guys need good mechanics to get it done. Except Philip Rivers.
A good track record in college is essential to being a good pro: Except Matt Cassel and Kurt Warner.
Notre Dame QB’s stink. Except Joe Montana.
QB’s can’t be short. Except Drew Brees.
Guys, we just don’t know.
Tebow will be a good pro or he won’t be. Either way, one side will feel vindicated, but the reality is, we have no way of knowing, and no insight that anyone is bringing to the table is PROOF that he’s going to be good or he’s going to be bad. So before we all accuse each other of “living in a dream world” or ignoring this or that, let’s take a breath. Nobody has any idea whether or not he’ll become a good pro quarterback. Each guy is different, and it is impossible to predict.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
by JPH on Jan 28, 2010 6:55 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
We can try to "play the odds", but yeah......ultimately, there is no sure thing. Rec'd
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
WTF!
I just spent my last 10 mins at work writing a post describing how bad of a QB that Tebow is and the post doesn’t get posted…thanks : )
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:21 PM EST reply actions
i’ve been waiting a year or so for an article on tebow here on this blog. i am so pleased it has arrived. and that the buffalo bills might at least consider taking him. i wish he is. a guy that passionate about football, and a town so passionate about football can produce good results. he is unlike any other qb i’ve seen play at the college level. i cannot wait to see him play in the nfl, regardless of where he lands. i hope it’s in buffalo. i can only pray.
Thoughts
Brian stated a lot of facts that point to Nix considering Tebow. It’s does seems to point toward Buffalo targeting Tebow at some point in the draft. Nix was part of the team that drafted Philip Rivers, who was in a similar situation during the early part of the draf tprocess.
Here’s my thoughts from this week at the Senior Bowl, Tebow’s draft status, and pro potential:
Tebow’s Senior Bowl Week
Tebow has looked no better or worse overall than any other QB at the Senior Bowl. His mechanics, and specifically his arm dip, are still there. But his footwork has improved, he’s displayed a really strong arm and has made all the pro throws, and has thrown accurately most of the week.
The center-QB exchange is so overblown. He has problems on the first day, and then it went away. If anything, it showed that he could screw something up royally, and then comeback the next day with the issue fixed.
Mentally, Tebow is all there. Because he played in a spread option doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand the pro forms of offense. Tebow has Peyton Manning like work habits. He will pick up a playbook and concept immediately. His ability to read defenses will take longer, but that will come as well.
As a leader, Kiper put it best: 1st overall pick intangibles. Every GM/HC wants this type of guy to build a team around.
Draft Status
If the draft process is a football game, we’re past halftime and into the third quarter. We still have the Senior Bowl game, the Combine, and Pro Day’s. A lot changes. Philip Rivers was a second round prospect with a questionable hold point for the ball and a quasi sidearm throwing motion. He went 4th overall. What everyone outside of GM’s think, including me, doesn’t really mean much right now. Lots more process has to happen.
My gut tells me that he’s got a range of 9th overall to 22nd overall. That’s based on Rivers history, and the number of teams that could/would pick him (Buffalo, Jacksonville, San Francisco, New England).
One guy that I would listen to very closely concerning Tebow is Marc Trestman. He’s been working with Tebow, and said Tebow’s Day 1 at the Senior Bowl wasn’t his best. Trestman wasn’t able to help Andre Woodson’s draft status much, but the talent difference between Woodson and Tebow is pronounced.
Pro Potential
Good models to follow are San Francisco’s handling of Steve Young and Philadelphia’s handling of Donovan McNabb. Tebow has potential to progress along a similar fashion is handled correctly.
Tebow is going to need 2-3 years to develop. He may be able to help immediately in goalline and short yardage, but running a pro offense shouldn’t be expected soon. What Tebow needs is for those 2-3 years to be with the same offensive coordinator with the same system. He’s got enought to work on to have to think about changing terminology and offensive concepts.
Buffalo is a good landing spot for him. Gailey is the offensive coordinator. Unless the Bills fire him after 1-2 seasons, Tebow would benefit from running/learning the same offense.
Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Carson Palmer, and Steve Young all sat the bench for a significant amount of time. It benefitted them. That’s the type of plan Tebow needs.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 28, 2010 7:32 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Excellent read, rec'd. Although I disagree with Tebow's abilities and potential to fix them...
If this is the plan that Tebow needs…
Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Carson Palmer, and Steve Young all sat the bench for a significant amount of time. It benefitted them. That’s the type of plan Tebow needs.
Do we need Tebow?
by NorCal BillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Counter-Question/choice
Which would you take:
Clausen, and watch him take a beating behind the line, throwing to average overall talent, and working with a team in development?
Tebow, sitting him on the bench for 2-3 years while the offensive line, receivers, and defense adds more talent, while an interim starting QB takes the beating?
I’ll take Vick or even Derek Anderson (through trade) for a couple years if the 2012 version of the Bills is a more complete team with a ready for primetime Tebow.
by Der Jaeger on Jan 28, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why do we have to draft a QB this year!?!
Frankly, this class of QBs sucks! Not much talent and a whole lot of question marks. I would rather we use our picks to build the weak spots on the line and D front 7 and draft a QB when a polished, rifle-armed QB is available. None of these guys have the gunslinger mentality and cannon arm we need. Is there any question why the last great QB we had was Jim Kelly. He could throw the ball a mile… even in the wind. He was cross between Tebow’s mentality, Favre’s ability at reading Ds, and Jeff George’s ungodly arm strength. That, my friends, is what we need! (With a few less INTs mind you…)
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
Thats what I`ve been saying all along. Screw drafting a QB this year, lets sign a guy like Pennington and build the rest of the team around him and draft our QB next year.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
Why do we have to draft a QB this year!?!
I’m OK with Buffalo mostly ignoring QB for an offseason. But it’s by far the most important position and if their plan is to groom a young player, it’s going to take time. They need to start developing a QB this offseason, or they need to have one hell of a good plan. It’s got to be one or the other.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
right
and there is no guarantee we get a shot at a top QB next year. We are in the top 10 this year. Its a big risk to assume we’ll have a shot at a top guy again.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
No Offense.
I feel we won’t be a whole lot better next year. I think we will have opportunities to draft high for the next 2 years. provided we get our guy, it’ll be a long time after that.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
i fear
that if we pick up Pennington, we end up with a 9-7, 8-8 record and pick 12-17 for two years. Thats not high enough to get a great QB.
And no offense taken. If you weren’t a Bills fan I’d be arguing fiercely, but we’re all rooting for the same bad team here! ha
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I dont want us to pick up Pennington. I want us to use Fitzy and Trent until they’re done. It’s too late for them anyway. Let’s get a decent QB when we draft our franchise guy and then he can groom him. My timeline is just a little farther off than everyone else’s because I want longterm success, not just a playoff berth.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
in essence
your willing to tank the season, correct? Not a bad strategy for long term success at all. But do you think Gailey, a guy getting his last shot to be a head coach, and Nix, a guy getting his first shot to be a GM, aren’t feeling the urgency to try and win from day one? Thats why I’m fearful of passing on a QB this year for a vet. I would love to pick up a vet AND draft a QB
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
and also
they’re running a damn football team, and it’s their responsibility to put their best product on the field day in and day out. Tanking is bad for the game. Tanking for an entire season could cost Buffalo a franchise.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
I have a lot of faith in Nix
I think his judge of talent is of the best in the league. Unfortuantely, we’ve lost for 10 years.
I feel all that goes away now, we have a good GM (for the first time in at least 10 years) and we need to let him build the team from the ground up in his image. It took Polian like 3 years to set the foundation when he was here. I say we give Nix the same.
Then we start winning… BIG TIME!
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
Not intentional tanking!!
Franchises go through rebuilding phases all the time. No one expects Detroit to go to the playoffs next year, am I right? No, their expected to draft players that they need to fill vital roles on their team for long term success. You field the best team you can each year without deterring from your long-term goal. We’ve wanted and then failed to win in Buffalo for so long that we’ve forgotten what it takes to cultivate a winning franchise in lieu of a winning season.
I guess what I’m saying is get rid of the old unproductive high-priced talent and start over. We’ve got a lot of good young potential talent, we just need to add more within the framework of a cohesive building strategy. Give Buddy and Chan 5 years to do as they will. Resign ourselves to Rebuilding. We haven’t tried that strategy in oh say, 14-16 years. How about we give it a shot.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
I'm ok with that.
But it just isn’t fair to the fans id they don’t address the qb position going into next year in some way.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
exactly though!
We’ve got a lot of good young potential talent,
So lets give them a QB to lead them and give them direction and purpose! We can not wait any longer for a franchise signal caller. The situation is no longer dreadful its critical. The Buffalo Bills have tried rebuilding with young talent and they’ve come close (a lot of average seasons in the last decade with a lot of seasons coming down to the last game, or econd to last game before we were eliminated from the playoffs) but the only thing that has kept us from going over the hump into greatness has been failure to grab a franchise QB. JP Losman was the only real effot as he was taken in the first round. Other than that, Trent Edwards was a pleasant surprise who was never intended to make a shot at being THE guy so soon in his career. It looked like JP was about to become THE guy himself at the time.
We have young talent, we need to stop wasting it on bad QBs. Lee Evans entire career he has played with a QB who either never was or failed to turn into our franchise guy. We can’t address the position anymore without grabbing a top prospect. A vet to let him learn is ok, but the young talent we have needs to be able to point to a guy and say, there. That is this teams future and direction. Having no direction, like the Bills do now, is something which I think demotivates a young team like the Bills.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Joe Flacco was picked up by the Ravens midway in the first. Thats where Tebow is expected to go this year. I honestly think that there will be a better QB available to us midway threw the first round of next year’s draft then there will be available to us at number 9 this year. I’m much rather we pick up our franchise LT this year and then bring in a QB behind a good line then ruin a young QB due to this franchise’s impatience and horrible line. Lets wait a year, please, lets wait a year.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Ricky Stanzi!!!!
fix the lines this year, grab a decent vet, or even take a shot on an unproven guy who’s been in the league like troy smith, then draft stanzi next year.
I like the potential of smith, hes bein practicing and playing with the Ravens so nothing he sees defense-wise should surprise him, AND He Has Practiced Against a Rex Ryan Defense Extensively.
but if he doesnt work out then theres Ricky Stanzi!!
by uPitt_BillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
why do we have to draft a QB this year!?!
I agree. that’s why I’d take Hiller in Round 7 or as a UDFA. I don’t see ANY QB in this years draft that isn’t a 2-3 year project. Gailey’s run-first mentality may make it a bit easier for a raw prospect, but it would be a painful way to begin an NFL career.
most of my posts get deleted :(
rec'd as well.....also I heard this little gem
32 teams don’t have to love Tebow..just one has to.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
I am not so sure
If the Bills do draft him at #9, I don’t think he would be a bigger bust than Whitner. Given my lack of excitement with the top 2 guys, if we do go QB with the first pick I hope it is Tebow.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
by Joe P. on Jan 28, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just hope that we don’t draft a QB at all this year. No one impresses me from this class. Give me a rookie LT, a rookie MLB and Chad Pennington please.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
im ok with that idea.
If we ended up with Davis and Spikes, i’d be pretty content.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Stop reading my mind man, not cool. ;-)
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Just heard that Davis has weight issues....Bulaga has moved ahead of him in my book
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Bulaga is very much raising in stock in my mind. But I want to see what happens at the combine before I make up my mind.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
we should trade down
pick up bulaga, tebow, and spikes. haha. problem solved!
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bulaga and Spikes I’m on board for. Your still have a lot of convincing to do before I’m on board with Tebow. But if you can manage to get all 3, then I might quiet down a bit. I just don’t see it happening.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
i dont either
but im not sure. if trading from 9 to say 20-ish region (first round)…..would that be enough to pick up a middle-late 2nd round?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
It would be, but then we have no chance of landing Bulaga, Spikes and Tebow. In fact if we move back to about 20, then have the 9 pick and the 20 pick in the second the only one of the three tha I see us having a shot of picking up is Tebow. Bulaga will be gone by pick 20 and Spikes might not even make it to pick 9 in the second. So not really a good plan.
In order to land all 3 we’d have to trade back up into the 1st and keep our second rounder.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
How screwed up are we!
If the Bills do draft him at #9, I don’t think he would be a bigger bust than Whitner.
We’re already seeing bust! Hehehehe…
DJ as usual
like your post on SBnation, you are fun to listen to discuss Tebow. Probably the best and most informative analysis you’ll hear on Tebow anywhere comes from this guy right here Rumblers, so take advantage of it. Speaking of which…..
A few questions to gauge your opinion here:
- What do you think of obtaining Vick and letting Tebow sit for a few years before inheriting a system designed for a scrambling QB? Do you think Tebow will transition into the NFL as a player similar to the guy we saw in college? Or will he have to adjust to a more traditional pocket role? In essence, can his college style work in the pros? Or at least something similar?
- If you had to name one reason NOT to draft Tebow, what would it be?
- Finally, what are his prospects for changing positions if QB doesn’t pan out? Can he be successful as say, a safety?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Gailey and Nix don’t have three years to just have crappy results, because by the time he’s ready to play, they’ll both be fired. I’ve stated this before: This fanbase has had enough of crappy results and OBD knows it very well. They need to find a QB that can come in and fairly quickly be ‘the guy’. Tebow is obviously not that guy. He has way too many flaws to his game to be considered anything more than a project; every scout will tell you that, if they’ve done their homework (just ask Mike Mayock, Gil Brandt, Daniel Jeremiah or Todd McShay).
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 29, 2010 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Palmer
I’m not sure all these guys sat on the bench 2-3 years. Palmer had 432 passes in his 2nd year and 941 after his 3rd year. Thats a big difference to a guy who might need to sit 2 – 3 full years.
I do agree with you re Gailey – maybe he finds a way to use him before then – but if we stink again and Gailey goes – than what ?
We all need a crystal ball to see 2 – 3 years into the future – dammit Brian, why won’t you spring for a crystal ball for us ?
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Am I the only one here that sees that all of Chan's praises for Tebow are on a personality and moral standpoints?
Could it be possible that Chan (an extremely religious man) admires Tebow for his beliefs and likes that part of him? After all Chan has not said anything about Tebow’s playing ability otherwise from his track record. And I mean that he hasn’t said anything at all. Nothing.
So could it simply be that Chan Gailey admires the man, but not the player? I’m hoping thats the case because I honestly think that drafting Tebow to be our franchise QB will set this team ferther back then when we traded for Rob Johnson.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We are already there....at this point, Rob Johnson would be an upgrade
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
He probably would be, but I’m not interested in drafting a player that might be as ood for us as Johnson was. I repeat, if we are going to draft QB in the early rounds, lets make it one that is NOT a project.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Why? It is the perfect year to draft a project QB. If Nix believes Tebow is the next Steve Young, then go get him
Let Fitz or Brohm get the hell beat out of him for a few years while our line gels. If Tebow can grow into a great QB, I am willing to wait.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
I'd rather see Vick get the hell beat out of him, literally.
most of my posts get deleted :(
by dzil on Jan 29, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
vick probably wouldnt get beat up too much
fast enough to get out of there…..but yea i got your point. i think vick would be alright. we could do worse…….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
I gotta rec this
I’d rather see Vick get the hell beat out of him, literally.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Quote me, one day you will be very happy that we didn`t.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
im the one who started the rolando mcclain praise a while ago on this site. I love him too and want him at 9. I am just hoping we somehow get tebow in the second but he wont fall that far. I am just saying when its all said and done, we will look back and go, damn we should of took Tebow at 9. Kind of like how we are all like damn, we shouldn’t have taken Mike Williams.
I don't mind drafting Tebow
with a 3rd round pick or later…
I want an OT and MLB with the earlier picks, to address obvious needs with players who can impact the team immediately.
I might be the only one, but I think Trent Edwards with a better offensive line could be a good QB. I’d like to see Trent get another shot starting next season and hopefully the new coaching staff will be able to develop Trent.
That being said I like Tebow as a long term, high risk/reward project at QB, but earlier than the 3rd round is too early for the risk.
by billsfan4life on Jan 28, 2010 8:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I might be the only one, but I think Trent Edwards with a better offensive line could be a good QB.
at this point, you might in fact be the only one.
That being said I like Tebow as a long term, high risk/reward project at QB, but earlier than the 3rd round is too early for the risk.
This is a good point and an important distinction: The Bills have gotten into trouble by falling in love with players and chasing them above their slot. Whether the Bills like the risk that Tebow represents is totally about where they would have to take him. It’s not a binary decision.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Low probability of him being there in round 2 - forget round 3
If the Bills pass on him in the first round… I wouldn’t blink. If they pass on him in the second round? I would throw up. He’s just got too much upside to put him that low on your board – especially for a team looking for a franchise QB.
He’s not a third round talent on anyone’s scale. I don’t care what the talking heads are saying, Tebow is definitely gone looong before round 3 begins.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
Tebow is definitely high on the board
Drafting Tebow is risky but NOT drafting Tebow is also risky.
Drafting Tebow puts Gailey’s stamp firmly on this offense and immediately changes it’s complexion, for better or worse (could it get worse?).
If I had to bet, and I AM a betting man… Gailey looks like the kind of guy who is going to do it his way and establish a culture. Drafting Tebow accomplishes that and then some. With his emphasis on running the football and getting someone who has had success in the past (I took that to mean, he’s won!), Tebow is front and center in that perspective.
The more I think about it, the more I feel it is very likely. For better or for worse, it’s bold.
I would get excited, even though the analytical part of my brain can’t foresee it working very wel. Perhaps that’s the side of my brain that has been damaged by all of the losing we’ve done over the last decade. Gun shy?
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
JP had leadership/maturity issues....Tebow has mechanical issues
Since JP has already proven to be a bust, I would have to say he is the bigger reach.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
please dont bring him back into my mind
I try my best to forget all about him jpheff!!
And for the record, JP Losman was a bigger reach. Ugh, need more wine now. Stupid JP…..
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
woudn't consider Tebow a reach
if you believe you can win with Tim Tebow, you draft Tim Tebow. Where he is drafted doesn’t matter then, even #9.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
unless you're sure he's going before you draft at 41, 9 would be a reach in my mind.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
risky thought process there
to be practical, assuming Tebow will be there at 41 is “the reach.”
he’s won a lot of football games. he’s a leader. he’s got good size and his numbers all look great. how much of that you attribute to the spread is your own opinion, nobody knows that.
if you are Chan Gailey… and you feel you can win with Tim Tebow as your QB, you strike. You let the media and the fans decide if it was a “reach.” You get ready to go win some football games.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
fair enough, i just disagree
if Tebow gets a 3rd round grade from the rest of the league, but I think he’s my franchise QB, i’m not taking him at #9.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
your suggestion is the optimal result
it’s the optimal result, assuming you know with certainty that 31 other teams are just that turned off.
at some point you look at any team on draft day who has even a remote need at qb and you say, Tim Tebow is still on the board? Frankly, not every team is as desperate not to make a mistake as this one will need to be.
You can’t envision New England taking him off the board just to prevent Buffalo from getting him? He could sit behind Brady for a couple of seasons and become the biggest BOMB ever dropped by a professional football franchise.
There is risk, either way.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
definitely.
I just think that, more than most prospects, we’re going to know where every team stands on Tebow come draft day.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Correction: LOSE some football games!
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
You'r obvious very sure he will fail
I am not nearly as confident that he will succeed. That means, you’re right?
If Chan Gailey thinks Tebow is capable of doing the things he needs done to win football games, then I’m on board. If they pass, I trust their judgment to an extent. If they keep passing, after round 2… which the scenario we’re discussing here… i will no longer trust their judgment because he has – at least – that much upside. i would see that as a mistake.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
Compare and Contrast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INxqYDAFSQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT53fdI913Q
So, here’s a couple of highlight films side-by-side of Tebow and Big Ben. Big Ben’s release is ultimately a little quicker because he drops the ball about 15-20 degrees less than Tebow. It’s important to look at many throws from each player because deliveries are variable. But, for as low as Tebow drops on some throws it still doesn’t take Byron Leftwich-time for the ball to come out. And there’s some good clips of Tebow making some NFL caliber throws into coverages against Alabama. It seems Tebow is aware of how quickly he needs to get the ball to a spot on any given throw and will alter the angle and speed of his delivery accordingly.
So everybody can stop listening to scouts, and take a gander for yourself. I think Tebow will adapt his delivery one way or another to get the job done. That’s what he’s always done… It’s been great going to UF the past 4 years thanks to him, and it would be great to be a Bills fan for the next decade if the Bills decide to draft him.
PS – I compared him to Big Ben because they’re both scrambling type QB’s and Ben’s delivery is very inconsistent. Sometimes he is pure overhead, sometimes 3/4, and sometimes completely sidearmed. So, it was the best comparison I could conjure.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
I look at that sprial, at that lob he has in his throw and at that slow release and I’m thinking he’ll be a INT machine. I also look at him run and think that yes he is an increadible athelete. But most of those runs are made because of poor tackling. The LBs don’t wrap him up or just try to bump him and hope that he doesn’t fall. That is going to get him KILLED in the NFL. Yes he has amazing feet, but its still not enough to change my mind.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 28, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
You CAN'T wrap Tim Tebow up
Watch him run over everybody’s boy McClain in that highlight reel.
But nevermind, I’m not trying to convince the likes of you… you’ve made your mind up, there’s too much intellectual chauvinism going on here for people to change their minds once they’ve made them up.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
2 way street brother.
Look in the mirror.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
I think his point is
its taking quite a blind leap to go right ahead and say Tim Tebow will fail in the NFL. In my opinion hes earned the benefit of the doubt for it to be more likely he’ll succeed. How much of a success, and whether he should be taken at pick 9, are the real questions here.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Fair enough.
For my money, no earlier than the fifth
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
wow
the fifth?
Heres what I see happening. The Colts will be smart, know they have a Super Bowl caliber team, and draft Tebow first round. Then they groom him for five years. Let the “perfect” QB except for mechanics learn mechanics from the most mechanically precise QB ever and then keep their dynasty going after Manning retires. Tebow learning from Peyton for half a decade? Thats a scary thought….
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Dude...
They have that luxury. We have serious needs and talent level of each draft has to be taken into account. Tackle was real deep last year. We’ll truly see what this year has to offer after the combine. I just don’t see enough payoff for the gamble,… For US! Hell I could sit under Peyton for 5 years and be a damn good OC if not a QB. Come on brother.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
well, yea
They have that luxury
Thats why I said that I saw this scenario happening. I’m well aware we do not have that luxury. Just pointing out that I think a fifth round grade is very low for him.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
ah
I thought you were saying you graded him out as a fifth.
Even for us, five is low. Are you telling me if Tebow is there in round 3 and we nabbed a LB and LT you wouldnt grab him?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I’m saying that there are better prospects at their positions that are positions of need for us. One OT does not an O-line make.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
true, true
but I’m of the opinion our o-line isnt that far off. One free agent and one draft pick and we’re ready to roll.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
That's where we differ.
I feel as if we should draft strong young line talent. Wood may or may not come back. Butler is inconsisten and oft-injured. Bell?? Hang?? As I see it we have 2 sure things on the O-line: Levitre and whoever we draft this year. Wood makes it 3 if he comes back strong. Butler is good for a year or two but I don’t see him as a long term solution, especially not at tackle. Look at NE’s SB years. The best O-line in football built pretty much from the ground up. That’s what I’m envisioning.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
if thats what your envisioning
I bet your looking back at pick 11 and Michael Oher, huh?
And for the record, thats not an anti-Maybin comment.
Out of curiosity, which LT do you prefer of the many candidates at pick 9?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I did want Oher, from the get go!
Not a hindsight is 20/20 thing.
I like Davis. They say he has a weight problem but he is preparing a press release to explain it. And the so-called weight problem lasted 2 games, 2 years ago. He was High School Prep all america and a four year starter at Rutgers. What’s that Buddy said about if you’ve always done it…
Other than that, I like Bulaga as a RT. I just don’t see him being athletic enough for the left side.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
but we dont need to draft an entire o-line
and adding a LT, with the development of levitre and the return of wood and butler and Cogs/Hangartner, would make a huge difference.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Sorry guys, I just want to see us build a ine that we can run and pass behind for like 10 years… you know, kinda like we had in the 90’s. And the 49ers had in the 80’s and 90’s. And the Pats had in the 2000’s. And the Steelers had int he 70’s. Do I need to keep going?
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
i totally agree
but at some point you also have to notice that all those teams had special QBs playing as well. We need one very bad. If Bradford is there isn’t he the pick?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Deffinatly. But if he’s not there then we should go LT and build that line for the special QB down the line. It never hurts to draft a good QB and put him behind a line that can actually protect him.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
Look at the 'Skins connection
If they don’t want him, should we?
If his arm is good, no damage, they’ll take him anyway. moot point.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
Like the Cowboys had in the 90's
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
right i get that you want a great O-line, i'm with you on that
i was just saying we don’t need to start from scratch.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
We should never draft based on what others may overpay for...
They may have the luxury. I don’t jalopies and build street rods because I can only afford to shop for need. Indy can afford to build hot rods in thier garage.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
I know
I was just sharing my opinion of whats going to happen to Tebow. Not using it to argue we should take him at 9
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
5 years Poz ?
And then after that 5 year span his rookie contract is up and he jumps to another team for $$$’s The colts get nothing for their 1st rounder and $20 million spent.
Here’s another scary thought – we take him at 9. His Salary is 40 – 50 mill over 5 or 6 years. He “learns” from Ryan freakin Fitzpatrick – hmmmm not exactly the same scenario.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
not the same at all
but a lot of guys learn for 4-5 years. Didn’t Aaron Rodgers sit for four years?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
He sat for 3 and started in his forth. Seemed to have worked though.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Three I think
Rodgers sat for 3 and pennington for 2 and a bit. Thats the most I remember any QB’s sitting for in the last 20 years – guys who were drafted early and expected to play anyway (There are of course guys like Jim Sorgi who will sit until the day S a t a n ice skates to work !)
I think with the money and pick invested pretty much no team can afford to wait more than 2 years. Even the colts, but I agree with you they could afford to wait longer than most. Even they could use that 1st rounder better by getting a guy who will start in at least 4 of those 5 years at a position they need.
In Buffalos case (which is really the one that matters the most) We just cannot afford to wait more than a season or 2 max for a QB to develop – if we do he’ll be learning a new system before he ever hits the field since all of our current coaches would be in the old folks home.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Oh I`m not saying that he will fail in the NFL, I`m just saying that he`s not the guy for us. I don`t think that we have the coachs that are needed to fix his mechanincs. I also don`t think that we have a fan base/front office that is patient enough to let him sit 2-3 years before he starts. If we draft Tebow he will be our starter in 2011 at the lastest, maybe even halfway threw his rookie year. And putting him that early would be desasterous for Tebow. It would ruin his confidence and stop him from developping into the QB we need.
Basicly I`m not saying that Tebow is a horrible NFL prospect (although I do think that he is a bad one that has the ability to turn it around down the round), I think that he is a horrible prospect for the Bills. I have ZERO confidence in this franchise`s ability to show him the patience that he will need in order to develop into the player that ppl think he will be.
Mark my words, if the Bills draft Tebow, they will ruin him.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but dont we also run just as high a risk
as ruining Bradford or Claussen? I know they are more “pro ready” supposedly, but can we expect any QB to succeed behind that line? Unless we make free agent upgrades, any QB is going to have to learn behind Trent or Fitz or Vick/Pennington for a few years. Why not make it Tebow if Bradford and Claussen are gone?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I honestly think that we have less of a chance of ruining Claussen or Bradford because of their sounder mechanincs. With them we’d just need to worry about bringing them up to the NFL’s tempo, we don’t need to worry about fixing mechanincs and teaching them how to do reads at the same time.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
lol
It would ruin his confidence /blockquote>
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
I concede good points when people make them…. how is that intellectual chauvinism? I understand the question marks about Tebow and I don’t discount them. But I think people don’t understand that underneath all of the “Tebow is great” media hype, that in Florida, there has always been the criticism and question marks about him. And he he has flat out risen to every single challenge and proven every single doubter worng, every single time. I’ve learned not to bet against Tim Tebow. You all may have to learn the hard way like I did. That is the opposite of intellectual chauvinism, sir.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I saw 2 throws from Tebow into any kind of coverage. Everything else was to wide open recievers on the verge of being called blown coverages. That’s my problem with him. Half of his passes were to recievers planted in space, not in motion actually running a route. Big Ben beats good coverage constantly. I can hit a wideout with 5 yards of seperation between the defender and the reciever, and I could probably do it while leading the reciever to maximize YAC. Most of the recievers in the video were standing pat as if fielding punts. It’s ridiculous. He’ll never find regular in the pros that’s that bad and if his throws are late, off location, or the defense has any semblance of good coverage, it’s gonna be a pic!! Please Buddy, DON’T DO IT!!!!!!!
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
Ugh
it’s a friggin highlight reel… this is why it’s hard talking about Tebow with people so far from the Mason Dixon line, no one has actually watched his games. If you had watched him this season you’d know that his receivers THIS year stunk at getting separation (with the exception of Aaron Hernandez) and he made tight throw after tight throw… especially to Riley Cooper. He hit Cooper and Hernandez in stride aplenty this season with guys draped all over them. He throws especially well into tight deep coverage. I can’t recall any of Tebow’s deep balls being picked now that I think about it… I’ll have to look into that.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
WRONG!
VA-Carolina border brother! I saw plenty of Tebow’s games, more than I ever wanted to. Definitely not impressed. And right or wrong, I believe there is better QB talent coming down the pipe, we need our picks now for need right now. Almost every other team in the league can spend their picks like $1 bills. Not us, every one is $100 bill! And it better pay off!
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
Wow.
Who says that Tim Tebow is a controversial prospect. Why, there are only three hundred posts on a suggestion that we consider the possibility that our GM might like him. Nope, no controversy there.
i would care to guess
that any qb will be hotly debated. tebow moreso. but if brian were to put up a post about bradford or clausen, youd have a lot of bickering.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 28, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think he is more like Vinnie Testeverde in skill level, Trent Dilfer in toughness and Jim Kelly in Passion. He’ll probably be like Vince Young in developmental speed, Matt Hasselback in intelligence and have the same kind of success that David Carr had.
What a crapshoot picking a quarterback is.
by Bill Frank on Jan 29, 2010 12:17 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Go Tim
Hes a winner…something us western new yorkers havent seen in buffalo in a long long long time.
by gatorempire127 on Jan 29, 2010 12:55 AM EST reply actions
My opinion...
If the cards fall just right… and I mean just right, he could be an amazing QB. Not a Manning, but more like a McNabb or a Culpepper, at the VERY best. However, odds are, and I mean like 999,999 out of 1,000,000, he will be invested in heavily by whatever team drafts him, sit for four years and soak up knowledge, and when he gets a chance to play the game will have changed into something totally different than what he was trying to learn. He’s too far behind. He is a man-child yes, but an untrained, unskilled man-child. I would take him no higher than the 6th or 7th round, where long-shot projects and gambles belong (Demetrius Bell). And don’t give stats, stats can be eschewed to show whatever you want to be told. silverstreak3k, I recommend a strict diet of objectivity from now until draft day, then look at strictly passing play footage and tell me that Tebow has any tools other than throw it deep on the run and the bubble screen. And as for YPA, how many of his yards are due to YAC from his thoroughbred recievers? Come on man, F the stats, the footage doesn’t lie, he is unable to consistently make the typical 5-20 yd throws in tight coverage.
Accuracy has nothing to with Comp%. It has to do with ball location and placement. Watch the AFC Champ Game for Manning’s tutorial on accuracy. The ball is always placed where defenders can’t get to it and the reciever can make the catch, coverage or no coverage. That my friend is a QB, and that cannot be taught. Ask McNabb. How long has he been in the NFL and he still over/underthrows consistently, and he was a schooled QB in college. Look at the tape and tell me where Tebow consistently made: timing throws, precision throws in coverage where the DB (with good coverage) was left defenseless and leading throws. Furthermore, show me where he located the throw CONSISTENTLY where the WR did not have to make physical adjustments to make a catch. Add to that the lack of defensive reads, adjustments at the line and/or after the snap, he’s not worth it…, TO US, THE BILLS! Not everyone else, THE BUFFALO BILLS!
As for QBs in this draft, there are none. Bradford is made of glass, I’m just glad we saw it this year before we drafted him. The Redskins Team Doctor is most familiar with him and his specific surgery, if they don’t want him, we better stay away from him like the plague. If he’s fine, the ‘Skins take him at 5 and it’s a moot point.
Clausen, He’d work out great for the Pats’ or any West Coast offense because of his familiarity with short and intermediate passing routes and defensive reads. Don’t be mistaken, he is the most NFL ready, but his arm isn’t strong enough to overcome his poor decision making and lack of self-doubt. He WILL make a lot of mistakes in the NFL. He will also be a very solid NFL QB if drafted by the right team. Not the Bills however.
IMO, we need to draft in this order:
Rd1 – LT!!!! what good is a QB if we’ll just make him into Trent the sequel?
Rd2 – LB Our complete lack of good talent and depth here is disgusting.
Rd3 and beyond – OL, LB, DL, WR in that order of importance on a BPA basis. Those 4 areas are about to get extremely thin for us this season and suffer from a severe lack of proven young talent.
We must build a STRONG offensive line first and foremost. I feel, if we do this correctly, we should be drafting our fanchise QB in 2012. By then, we should be able to field one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. Additionally, using 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks from now till then on big LBs and DLs, and our defense shoud rival any in the league. Combine that with a couple physical specimen WRs and our franchise QB should be able to grow with our offense into a Super Bowl contender within 5-6 years (patience is a virtue). I have a long term plan in my head, I just hope that Buddy and Chan agree because from what I read, I’m the only one here with this point of view.
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
by superchops on Jan 29, 2010 1:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I Want Tim Tebow
Somehow I hope we get him. He single handedly would turn this team around just by his leadership and his personality and unbelievable work ethic. He would transform the Buffalo Bills and get us back on the map for sure. He would be a great role-model and i believe would push everyone around him to be better.
I think Tebow fits the Bills
Think about what Chan Gailey did with Kordell Stewart in Pittsburgh.
Tebow > Stewart
Can we please think long term people. PLEASE!!
Franchise not gimmick! remember, Kordell sat behind Neil O’Donnell and Mike Tomczak. Is that what you want to wast a 1st Rd pick on? Seriously? Seriously?!!!
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger."
Long term, Nix and Chan will be fired before Tebow fully develops into an NFL ready QB. He makes NO sense for the Bills.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
he is already way better than anything we have so i bed to differ. and his ability to run makes him all the better cuz our O-line sucks. This guy is not a sally like Trent. He will be a hall of famer and youll be sorry we passed him up for another donte whitner. Serioulsy, we blow the 1st round every year, y not try to grab someone who dominated high school football and college football. Chances are he will dominate in the Pros.
That's a good point
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Jan 29, 2010 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
i cant stop looking at this site. i am enamored with the idea of tebow becoming a fan. he will bring much publicity to the bills as well, a bunch of new fans, and this site will have a lot more traffic than it already does. above all, he will make us into winners again.
Just a thought...
What about Tebow running some sort of Pistol hybrid here?
I believe Gailey tried something similar in KC and since Tebow has run a similar offence through college what are the chances that Gailey is considering such a move?
Im not saying that I think it would definitely work or that its even being considered, but Im just thinking that this deals with some of the issues he has, like with his footwork and snap issues, while not totally ruining the running game.
Thoughts?
I think the pistol is a short term 'make thigpen presentable solution.
I’m not crazy About basing your franchise around a gimmicky offense longterm. That being said, I know next to nothing about thr pistol besides what it looks like and that I saw mizzou run it a little.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Intangibles
I think Tebow could potentially be much better than thigpen.
His Intangibles are unbelievable for a QB prospect and considering Gailey’s history and I think with Tebow’s talent level he could definitely get something worthwhile out of him.
and I was thinking more of an “ease the transition” implementation rather than a “completely retrofit the playbook and throw pro offense out the window” thing
and i remember thigpen having a few good games two years ago, i cant remember if that involved the pistol. but if it did, that took a bad nfl qb and gave him the opportunity to succeed, and Tebow only needs to get a few years in to become much better. The pistol could be used at first as a way of getting something out of him during that time. Of course with emphasis being placed on him absolutely needing to get comfortable with an under-center style for the future
by uPitt_BillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 3:54 AM EST up reply actions
Unhappy would I be.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Pearl Jam - Unthought Known
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 29, 2010 7:02 AM EST up reply actions
T-Bow---with the glory comes the dissection.
T-Bow—-with the glory comes the dissection. That’s what happens with being the most recognize player in college and maybe college football history.
He is being diced and sliced at the senior bowl practices, if a receiver drops a ball it is his fault, his mechanics are bad, he has the looping delivery, he ran the spread, he was in the shotgun his whole career, his footwork is bad etc etc.
We all know the chances for him or any college player going pro and being successful is statistically low. My biggest worry for T-Bow is the expectations are so high that he will never be able to live up to them. He doesn’t have the proto-type physical tools that the scouts look for and the Kipers and McShay’s drool over. These are the same people that rated players like Jeff George, Aikle Smith, Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Kelly Stouffer, Andre Ware, Tim Couch etc etc can’t miss future pro-bowlers while missing on Romo, Warner, Montana, Brady and even Jeff Garcia.
T-Bow deserves and will get a shot and with him you know he will give everything he has to be a success, he is like Peyton Manning in that he will study study study and practice practice practice. If he fails it won’t be from lack of effort like some of QB’s I mentioned that had the physical tools but failed mentally…. He is a winner, a leader and a student of the game!!!!
As Wyatt Earp once said "You tell 'em I'm coming! And Hell's coming with me you hear! Hell's coming with me! ~
Tebow fits the Dolphins scheme best of any
wildcat might be the only way he becomes a viable NFL QB. I would love to see Miami give us another 3rd round pick in order to move up the board for Tebow.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Sorry I'm not reading through all this...
but I’ve been on the record for 1 1/2 years now, as not being a big Tebow fan for the same reasons scouts are saying at the Senior Bowl practices…..
That said, I might consider a flier on him if he drops to the 3rd, and is willing to make a position switch to TE if he can’t get it together after a couple years of Pro training camps….
sorry i missed this discussion........
but yeah……im pro Tebow
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 29, 2010 12:34 PM EST reply actions
lol............
i make exceptions occasionally.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 29, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
dont worry
we held it down for ya. this has got to be approaching some sort of record for most comments on a non game thread….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
i cant believe it
I keep coming back here because every few hours there are 50 more comments.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
My 2 cents
From what I’ve heard, there are two knocks against him:
— Can’t play under center. Okay, this is, in my opinion, idiotic. In a league where the Wildcat exists, and where Tom Brady takes three out of four snaps from shotgun, I think taking snaps from under center is the least of a team’s worries about a QB.
- Has problems with his throwing style. I’m not educated enough about what it is, but … the solution is obvious - get a solid retired QB as the QB coach. Problem solved. (Think Kurt Warner’ll go for it?… hmmm, maybe in pre-season, anyway.)
That being said, I still think they should go for Clausen if they can get him, and if not, get a solid LT prospect with the 9 spot, and see if Tim is available second round. (Being a Notre Dame fan, I’m leaning toward drafting Clausen and Tate one-two, making Tate second or third receiver, starting Fitz and sending Jimmy into the second half of games that are blown out from either end. But that’s just me.)
Note, JUST saw the style guide. I wasn’t intending to strike that out up there. Disregard it. grimaces
I like the idea of trying to keep Claussen and Tate together. I highly doubt that we could make it happen, but I think that any team that tries to do that would be doing themselves a great favor.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
golden tate is like the carbon copy of lee evans
why would we need two sub 6’ tall speedsters on this team? id rather a tall physical wr to compliment evans.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
The only way that I would even consider drating Tate is if we had Claussen. Their expirience together would be an asset on any team. But there is no point in drafting Tate on his own, we have much larger fish to fry then getting another WR.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 29, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
even with clausen
i wouldnt want tate. but yea, we def have bigger needs
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
on tim tebow
Perhaps the boldest statement came from ESPN analyst Todd McShay.
“He can’t play quarterback in the NFL, I’m convinced of it,” McShay said. “From his delivery to his footwork to his accuracy, you have to absolutely strip him down and build him back up. And it’s too late.”
todd mcdoucshe also said our worst pick of the 2009 draft was wood
and our best was maybin. im not a maybin basher, but if wood wasnt hurt, hed be miles ahead of maybin
link
so yea…
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Jan 29, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed....McShay is a flatulating butt hole
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
Ha!
Joe p—-now that was funny!!!
McShay & Kiper—also had high praise for J. Russell and Cade McNown as can’t miss QB’s. The easiest thing is to measure a player by charts, stats, 40 times, bench presses etc but nobody can measure the intangibles the will to win, the will to succeed and leadership ability. That is why the draft is such a crap shoot no matter how high a player is rated he can be a total failure or a player like future HOFer Kurt Warner is over looked and not drafted.
As Wyatt Earp once said "You tell 'em I'm coming! And Hell's coming with me you hear! Hell's coming with me! ~
Agreed.....McShay and Kiper can't seem to pick a QB to save their lives
Did you see Troy Aikeman’s comments on Tebow?
http://sec.floridatoday.com/article/0cOM6jCgPJaVC?q=Tim+Tebow
The list of quality QBs and Coaches who think Tebow can play is growing.
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
I’m still not convinced of Tebow’s abilities. And I’m VERY weary of our ability to develop him. But with Cortez now on board as our QB coach, I’m lightly , just slightly, more open to the possibility.
by CanadianBillsFan on Jan 30, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Not comvinced
Honestly don’t be convinced of any players coming out of college until they put on the pads and go against the Pro’s. So many college stars come into the pro’s and just fade away.
DT Suh is everyone’s favorite this year 2 years ago it was DT Glenn Dorsey who has been average at best.
With Cortez hired has me thinking that the Bills will go for Clausen if he is there at no# 9. Seems like Clausen would be right up Cortez’s alley from his stint at Cal and the CFL.
As Wyatt Earp once said "You tell 'em I'm coming! And Hell's coming with me you hear! Hell's coming with me! ~
Could be, but I wouldn't count on Clausen being available despite what Kiper thinks
If we do get Clausen, I have already got my avatar picked out :-)
"Do you even hear how totally bat sh!t insane you sound?" - Archer
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