Leslie Frazier is said to be the leader in the clubhouse for the Bills job. Blew away Buddy Nix in interview.
Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated
over 2 years ago
MattRichWarren
258 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Gregg Williams all over again?
Blown away in the interview portion? Don’t bother to look at other candidates?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Ugh is my reaction. Frazier is probably my least-favorite candidate.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
That makes 4 of us. (Least favorite candidate.)
I don’t think Frazier qualifies with me as a “big splash” that we were promised.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 9, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1. not too thrilled but its better than dicky j
"Be a wuss at home! Be a man on Rumblings!" - Kurupt
by bflo on Jan 9, 2010 12:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Y, Defenive monster, defence makes offensive
You guys might not know this, but I consider myself a bit of a loner. I tend to think of myself as a one-man wolf pack. But when my sister brought Doug home, I knew he was one of my own. And my wolf pack... it grew by one. So there... there were two of us in the wolf pack... I was alone first in the pack, and then Doug joined in later. And six months ago, when Doug introduced me to you guys, I thought, "Wait a second, could it be?" And now I know for sure, I just added two more guys to my wolf pack. Four of us wolves, running around the desert together, in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine. So tonight, I make a toast! - The Hangover
Actually i take that back, his front 4 is rediculous
You guys might not know this, but I consider myself a bit of a loner. I tend to think of myself as a one-man wolf pack. But when my sister brought Doug home, I knew he was one of my own. And my wolf pack... it grew by one. So there... there were two of us in the wolf pack... I was alone first in the pack, and then Doug joined in later. And six months ago, when Doug introduced me to you guys, I thought, "Wait a second, could it be?" And now I know for sure, I just added two more guys to my wolf pack. Four of us wolves, running around the desert together, in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine. So tonight, I make a toast! - The Hangover
I'll be sick if this happens
Yup, as stated above it would be Gregg Williams all over again and nothing will have changed in this organization. I’m still hopeful Nix will hire a better candidate.
by ccthemovieman on Jan 9, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
It would be disappointing
I have nothing against him as a coordinator although it’s a lot easier to build an effective defense with the best front 4 in the league – but we need to get away from these personality-challenged nice-guy head coaches. It isn’t just that the Bills are bad. What we are is worse than being bad – we’re irrelevant. We need someone to bring an identity to this team and I don’t see Leslie Frazier doing that.
That being said it’s not like this has happened yet, so there’s still hope. No reason to get upset – yet.
by Let's Talk About Tex Baby on Jan 9, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
personality challenged? Would anybody, ever, in a million years, call Tony Dungy personality challenged? Because if there’s one person that Frazier gets compared to, it’s Dungy. Some people think that the best personality trait that a person can have is the ability to treat other people correctly and that is supposedly one thing that Frazier does well.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Did you guys do a profile on him as a candidate? If so I totally missed it.
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
It was after the Jets game so I don’t blame you for missing it.
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/12/5/1166460/rumblings-coaching-candidate
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe we'll have continutity after all!
First time I’m reading that scouting report. My initial thoughts: A defensive-minded coach w/ Dungy like personality who is schooled in the cover-2 and loved by his players. Who does that sound like?!
John I.
Sounds like more losing to me!
I hope not though
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It's not the same defense
His Vikings do NOT play the same style defense that we have used under Jauron and Fewell. There are two major differences — his front seven are MUCH bigger than ours. No small and fast LB’s like Keith Ellison to “fly to the ball.” Instead they are heavy and strong, which has made them very effective against the run. Second, his DB’s play more man coverage than zone. None of this business of playing off the receiver to keep him “in front of you.” Instead, they are much more aggressive in going after pass break-ups. In short, Frazier’s version of the Cover Two remedies what many of us have seen as our two biggest complaints about the Bills’ D the past four years.
I would rather have Cowher, or Marty if he is willing to come, but after that Frazier would be very high on my list.
Plus the talent level he works with is better than what the Bills have been putting out.
by Hassanali181 on Jan 9, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
look
the big strong and more talented defense he has is a big reason he looks better., not to mention a very good offense to help make it so other teams play catch up most of the time. Hell, our defense isn’t that bad either, and we had a lot of takeaways which is exactly what our style of D is supposed to do… what we don’t have is an offense… Now, give some guys who can develop QBs and can evaluate offensive talent… as well as motivate…
Whatever, we’ll see what happens
Can't we get a winner.... Go Bills 2010 !!!!
love the avatar
7 6 2 millimeter full metal jacket! best movie ever
Rookies are like teabags...you don't know what you're gonna get until you put them in hot water. -Harry Neale
I'm not a fan of him either
and I hate hearing that he blew them away in the interview to become the leader. This makes me sick because it already appears they don’t have plans to interview many, or any, other candidates.
I’m still wondering how he is such a great candidate. It’s not like Minnesota has had this amazing defense under his tutelage. They’ve had a great run defense, fueled by maybe the best front 4 in football. Their LB’s have been good fits too.
The pass D on the other hand routinely underwhelms.
2009: 19th in yards, 23rd in TD’s allowed, only 11 INT’s
2008: 18th in yards, 5th in TD’s allowed, only 12 INT’s
2007: 32nd in yards, 15th in TD’s allowed, 15 INT’s
His Cincy defenses were in the bottom half of the league in his two season there.
I still don’t understand how this guy has become the hot name out there? Can someone shed some light?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
problem is
players and coaches can get hyped up by people around the league and the Bills unfortunately seem to take the bait and hire or acquire these guys, who then tend to dissapoint
Can't we get a winner.... Go Bills 2010 !!!!
and I hate hearing that he blew them away in the interview to become the leader. This makes me sick because it already appears they don’t have plans to interview many, or any, other candidates.
I don’t get that from the quote at all though. Maybe it’s because I’m a bit of a golfer and am reading into the quote too much, but “leader in the clubhouse” to me simply means that he’s done. His score has been tallied and it’s pretty good. Good enough to win will depend on the how the other guys finish up, but this guy has a final score and it’s a good one. This quote doesn’t scare me at all, but maybe that’s because I’m one of the few who actually likes Leslie Frazier.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Same here
Obviously Marty or Bill but if we must go elsewhere
Then lets take a long look at Russ Grimm, he has earned a shot at a HC position and believe me, he’d whip those boys up front into shape!
I looked at what Frazier has done and I am not overly impressed and I certainly do not feel that he has done anything to deserve a shot as a HC, at least Rivera knows both schemes and more importantly Lovie got rid of him which indicates to me that he got rid of the competition.
Lastly, I am not very high on Brian.Schot but I must admit that the Jets impressed me tonight and I look at the style of power running football that he runs in NY and I think I’d be OK with him as HC over Frazier.
Nothing left to say...
What is with you guys? Would you rather have a big splash or a guy that rights the ship? Please remember its Buddy Nix interviewing Lezlie Frazier, not Russ Brandon interviewing Dick Jauron.
Nix is a football guy and as such knows who will be best in this job. PLEASE have some god damn faith in the man.
by NJBillsfan on Jan 9, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We all have hope
It’s just we seem to be starting to go down a road we’ve already been down before…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Well, Ralf does like to go with what he knows
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
what he knows
or what he remembers? and i am beginning to wonder how much falls in either category… Hopefully Buddy can use his football knowledge to steer this football organization because i don’t know if anyone else at OBD has any idea anymore.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
But what makes this guy the next Jauron and not the next Dungy? Have we really been down this road before? Frazier hasn’t failed as a head coach. Frazier isn’t a complete and total stiff on the sidelines and is more of an inspirational guy. Frazier doesn’t have plans to go out and sign Larry Triplett and bring in a bunch of 220 pound LBs (I hope). Maybe he’s the next Dick Jauron, but I don’t think he’s got any more in common with DJ than an offensive coach would with Mularky, or an aggressive defensive coach would with Gregg Williams. I’m tired of everybody getting compared to somebody who has failed here. We’re always going to be able to draw those lines.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
My thoughts exactly. He resembles Jauron in a few superficial ways (i.e., they both come from the defensive side of the ball and were both great DB’s in their day), but he’s a different person and coach. It’s very unfair to make the comparison. Frazier may have defects in his own right, and that’s a fair enough thing to talk about, but to tar him immediately as a clone of Jauron is ridiculous.
I wasn't talking about his demeanor at all
I was speaking of the situation like Gregg Williams blowing the front office away with his interview and the Bills going from there. If the Bills end up hiring Frazier without bringing in more candidates due to his interview, then I see it like the Williams hire.
For the record, I would prefer a more animated coach than we’ve had. If that’s Frazier, fine, but I don’t want him hired right away based on an interview. And I’m not all that sure he’s some great defensive mind, either.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Jan 9, 2010 5:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Would rather keep PF, if it were the only other option.
Why do today, when it can wait til tomorrow; the games on!
Seriously, what does this guy have that Perry Fuel didn't?
Besides the fact that he is unfamiliar to us?
by StroudFanClub on Jan 9, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
older and overhyped
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
Are you serious? Overhyped? How can you even say something like that?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
After watching the Vikes play for quite some time now.
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
Wait, so are the Vikings overhyped, or is Frazier, or both?
If it’s Frazier, I disagree. The guy’s a legit candidate. I’ve said it a million times – stats only tell part of the story. If the guy can teach, motivate, is on the same page with Nix philosophically and can bring in high-quality assistants, that’s a hell of a start.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
My fears of hiring a coordinator as HC
What kind of Coordinators can we really attract? Guys that have been an LB coach for DC and a QB coach for OC?
I want experienced OC and DC more than I really care about the inexperienced HC.
Let the offseason begin
There’s been a rumor flying around that Frazier would turn to Chris Palmer to be his offensive coordinator. Palmer has been a head coach, a coordinator, and a quarterbacks coach. He’s very experienced. That doesn’t mean everyone would be all happy-go-lucky if he ran the show here, but it wouldn’t be like going to get a Mike Sheppard, Steve Fairchild or Turk Schonert.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
That is likely to be what anybody brings in, though. Team aren’t required to let their assistants leave to take other jobs. With the number of coaches not changing teams, what former OCs and DCs are out there? Fassell is the only one I can think of and he would come with Billick. Cowher has not former coordinators available right now.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Leader in the clubhouse.....
So the Bills are done talking to candidates and are just letting the Seattle and any other situations settle first? That’s definitely the Buffalo way….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
there’s the right way, the wrong way, the army way, and the Buffalo Bills way…three out of four miss the mark every time.
Best quote I’ve heard for quite a while.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
If Trotter is using a golf analogy...
….it could be that he’s just the leading candidate of those who have interviewed, and others may still be on the course.
However, I’m hoping it doesn’t mean they would prefer Frazier over Cowher. It may mean, though, that Cowher is out of the picture (assuming Trotter knows what he’s talking about.)
a couple of things on leslie frazier: 1, he is said to be the leader in the clubhouse for the bills job. blew away buddy nix in interview
ways to look at this.
1) WHO says he is the leader in the clubhouse? Who is Trotter “citing”
2) maybe Nix was genuinely impressed because he didn’t have high expectations?
I for one, am not going to get my hopes up or down based on what other people will speculate. I’m just going to sit tight until the new HC is announced. For all we know Cowher and the Bills could have a verbal agreement, which they will announce after the Super Bowl so Cowher can continue to fulfill his work as a broadcaster.
Well, as much as a dislike purple, I might have to route for them. I don’t hate Frazier, and to bash him now is beyond premature. He has been highly lauded by many in the business. I just wish they’d realize that this is a passing league and they should be concerned about the offense.
My worry is who would Frazier get to coach the offense? Who does he know and where do his circles run?
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 9, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Philadelphia in addition to his stint in Minnesota. All those were with the current head coaches so you can go from there. :-)
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
maybe they leaked this info
to get Cowher’s butt in gear. If Cowher is stalling and trying to play us for fools by buying time to see if more “desirable” head coaching positions open, this could be a great retaliation by the Bills to tighten the screws on the chin to make a decision.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
" You give me too much credit, Tom. I’m not that smart" – Sollozzo
While I’d like to believe we’re using leverage, I don’t think they have it in ’em. Case in point – blown away by Leslie Frazier = Pretty low “blown away” quotient.
Plus, I maintain, if Cowher is on board, he’s already on board (stealthily). He’s playing out the CBS gig
Godfather quote
Isn’t it something like….“You think too much of me, kid. I am not that clever. All I want is a truce.” When Sollozzo was responding to Michael asking him to guarantee no hits on his pops…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I heard that Russ Brandon was at the Interview.
And when Frazier said he’d take the job for a million a year Brandon was blown away. Obviously I’m employing sarcasm here.
No you’re not. Our owner is senile and cheap and that’s a very bad combo, especially when he’s said – according to the Chris Mortenson, who reported this yesterday on his daily radio show in Atlanta – that he’s in reality still the one calling the shots.
He’ll come up with some cheap, crappy, conservative Dick Jauron-clon of an HC and Leslie Frazier fits the bill.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
So the guy who is willing to spend $10 million a year on a coach is cheap?
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
Yeah I don’t buy the cheap argument.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Either way, I’m fed up with our crappy owner that loves mediocrity. He needs to fire himself, that old senile bum
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Your a class act Denmark
Is it really average talent or just poor coaching, how important is depth and experience.
What do you expect from me? Be happy that our owner is committed to losing?!
I’m not going to pretend I like a move, when I don’t, and I’m not going to try to be positive about a move that I don’t think is a good move, such as if the Bills hired Leslie Frazier. The guy is very much alike Dick Jauron and if he, too, runs easy camps, you might as well call him Dick Jauron Jr., because then they might as well have resigned Jauron for another three years.
I’m sick and tired of all this same mumbo jumbo from our front office. We need to clean house and get an entirely new and different mentality in here, and Leslie Frazier is not going to be that guy. As far as I’m concerned, he’ll be hired because he’s just some cheap candidate that will obey Ralph’s or Buddy’s orders and say they’re great (unlike everybody else in this league that are laughing at the Bills and at how Ralph has turned from being one of the most innovative men of this sport to being arguably the second-worst owner in the NFL after Al Davis).
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 10, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not going to pretend I like a move, when I don’t, and I’m not going to try to be positive about a move that I don’t think is a good move, such as if the Bills hired Leslie Frazier.
That’s all fine and dandy, but rationalizing it down to a personal level with the “senile” and “crappy” and “bum” – that’s where the “class act” comments come into play.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 10, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Why would I have to, when I don’t think Ralph is in his right mind to think that this franchise is going to be successful with yet another inexperienced guy and a 70-year-old GM that has never been a GM before.
This would be a crappy move, and Bills-fans have every right to be frustrated with the way this franchise is being run; there are just people, who will accept anything and say: “Well, Ralph brought the Bills to Buffalo…”
I don’t care. That man has no clue how to run a successful football team, and this team will only be successful, when he’s longer involved in the decisionmaking, which I still believe he is.
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 11, 2010 6:20 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying “don’t be frustrated.” I’m saying don’t berate the man’s person. You don’t know him. Berate his decisions, not his senility.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 11, 2010 6:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, well then I’ll leave it at this: Ralph Wilson has no idea how to build or run a successful franchise and until he’s no longer involved, we’ll likely be one of the worst teams in the NFL.
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 11, 2010 6:54 AM EST up reply actions
He has to do it first
Or the going cheap on another coach thing would have some legitimacy….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Jan 9, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t know. They obviously wanted Shanahan. He gave a huge deal to Tom Donahoe to get him to head up the FO. Even John Butler was offered a deal that would have made him one of the highest GMs in the league. Every hire isn’t going to be the big money guy and I think that Wilson has proven he is willing to spend when he thinks it’s the right guy.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
So the guy who is willing to spend $10 million a year on a coach is cheap?
got any evidence to support the $10 million dollar claim? Rhetorical question, indeed. Saying it and doing it are worlds apart
most of my posts get deleted :(
I think the fact that they courted Shanahan like they did and are interested in Cowher is proof that they are willing to spend big on a HC. 10 mil was always a bit of a ridiculous number, but I doubt they would have spent money to fly Shanahan into NY, take him golfing and probably buy him dinner if they were too cheap to give him a contract he’d realistically sign. And I doubt they would fly to Carolina for a stealth meeting with Cowher if they weren’t serious about signing him.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Shanahan signing with Washington for 7.5 mil per year is certainly not proof that the Bills were prepared to offer $10 mil. Flying these guys around and having meetings is just the first step towards truly finding out what the probable investment level would be. It in no way suggests that they are actually willing to pay the asking price. It would be ignorant for them to assume the price without ever asking. A round of golf and dinner does not equate to a commitment to spend the big dollars.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Don’t you think they know what the probable investment level is going to be before they fly out? Mike Shanahan was making 7M for sitting on his keister. They must have known they would have to spend at least that.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly what I was thinking. I don’t think 10 mil was ever a realistic number, but Buffalo had to have known that it would take top dollars to sign Cowher or Shanahan. One thing that a truly cheap owner would never do is spend good money going after a coach who they would never be willing to pay for.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Lot’s of assumptions that don’t prove a thing. do we know that Ralph wasn’t offering ownership interest to get a reduced pay rate? It wouldn’t take a very big chunk of a billion dollar franchise to make up for a few million dollars of contract expense. Bottom line is until Ralph writes a check or signs a contract, talk about what he might be willing to pay is meaningless. Making a certain amount at your previous job doesn’t prevent someone from offering you less after you’re unemployed. I never said Ralph was cheap, but I’m not convinced he would ever pay the huge sums that have been mentioned.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Making a certain amount at your previous job doesn’t prevent someone from offering you less after you’re unemployed.
So did Ralph expect Shanahan to work for the 2.5M?? I don’t get why you’re fighting this rational thought so much.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
For starters, because Shanahan is a primary basis for your arguement and he went to work for Washington for $7 mil after dismissing Buffalo almost immediately. I don’t see how interviewing Shanahan proves that Buffalo was prepared to pay what Washington did. As far as Cowher’s concerned, he hasn’t even taken a formal interview with the Bills. I’m just not willing to make the same assumptions that you guys are, that’s all.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Is it really a bad assumption to think that the Bills are smart enough to know that guys like Shanahan or Cowher would demand that much money? Couldn’t a really stupid person come to the conclusion that Mike Shanahan wasn’t taking a job in Buffalo for less than that 7 mil? Does it even take someone with average intelligence to know that it would take just as much to get Cowher? Obviously, Buffalo knows how much money it would take to sign them and yet, they are still pursuing them. How is that not proof?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Yes, but to play the devil’s advocate, couldn’t they have gone in knowing he wouldn’t come and that they wouldn’t have to worry about paying him 7 mil? Until it happens, I have no way of knowing if Ralph’s willing to pay for a top notch coach. We’ve been promised a big splash too…let’s see if that happens.
Also, I think you can excuse those of us that are highly skeptical. Patience and benefit of the doubt have run out. The Williams and Malarky hire, the Losman, McCargo, and Whitner draftings, the Jauron hire. Each time they said, I know you disagree and many wanted more, but trust us and give us time…..You’ve run out of time! Fix it! I don’t trust you!
That’s what’s going on in my head.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Are the Bills brass now in the business of wasting time and money flying to Denver to wine and dine Shanahan?
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
No, but they spent 6 mil. appeasing the fanbase w/ Owens, so…..
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 10, 2010 7:47 AM EST up reply actions
No. They spent 6.5M to try and make their team better by bringing in a great WR.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 10, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see how interviewing Shanahan proves that Buffalo was prepared to pay what Washington did.
It doesn’t. But Shanahan was making 7M from the Broncos for not coaching. If he was going to actually do some work the Bills musth ave known it would be around 7M to entice him off his coach.
As far as Cowher’s concerned, he hasn’t even taken a formal interview with the Bills.
He had a meeting last week. That’s all we know.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Our owner is senile and cheap
He’ll come up with some cheap, crappy, conservative Dick Jauron-clon of an HC and Leslie Frazier fits the bill
Sigh. He’s not cheap. I could really list all the ways he isn’t cheap if you want me too.
Was Gregg Williams a conservative coach? Is Mike Mularky a conservative playcaller? But since Jauron was conservative, obviously, every coach that Ralph Wilson would hire is conservative and every coach who learned in the Tampa 2 is conservative. Of course anybody with anything in common with Dick Jauron is just like him in every way.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
If he was really cheap, he wouldn't have fired jauron.
As it stands now, he’ll be paying two head coaches for the next couple years.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Jan 9, 2010 5:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
One angle to consider about Frazier
Obviously this is pure speculation, but it’s worth noting that Frazier is very close to Tony Dungy, who is the official mentor for Michael Vick’s rehabilitation. Dungy has said in the past that he would not be unhappy seeing Vick land on a more permanent basis in Buffalo. That of course was at a time when Jauron was HC, but I would guess that having Frazier here might make Dungy even more likely to push for Vick to join the Bills. I’m not sure whether that would be a good or bad thing. Vick is very talented, but my greatest concern with him to date is that he has been primarily a running QB. I have the impression he has been counseled by both Dungy and McNabb that he needs to improve his passing game if he is going to succeed in his next NFL gig and not rely so much on his legs. If that is true and if Vick takes it seriously, he might just be the answer to our QB dilemma. But in any case I would think having Frazier as HC does increase the chances of also eventually having Vick — for better or worse.
Now I really think I am going to be sick.....which rhymes with Vick....
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
i should clarify though
i agree still. i don’t want him either unless it means we run more. we should do that. i hear it is an effective way to win. wonder if there is any truth to it. ; )
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
I don’t know how I feel about Frazier. However, if the Bills are going to hire him I kind of hope they make him sign on the dotted line before he gets on that plane to Seattle. Take that, Rooney Rule!
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
I could care less about the rooney rule. He’s a mediocre coach, who Vikings-fans that I know (and I know quite a few) aren’t at all impressed with. He has a lot of absolute studs on his defense and yet they’re incredibly inconsistent.
No more soft Dick Jauron-clons.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
The vikings weakness is in the secondary though right?
At least coming here he’d already have a good one waiting for him. Minus Reggie Corner of course.
I don’t know nor care anymore. I just want to see a proven guy in here and Brian Billick is exactly that.
For Ralph Wilson’s sake and the Buffalo Bills, I hope they don’t decide to hire Frazier, because he would shoot this team back to the stoneage as a coach. (I mean think about it: How the hell are we going to be able to compete with the Pats, Dolphins and Jets, when we’re consistently making awful decisions?!) I’m just fed up and done with all these crappy coaches that our senile owner and his “GM” comes up with.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
The Jets head coach was a defensive coordinator last year. The Dolphins coach was a position coach, not even a coordinator, two years ago.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Y'all are in a panic...
over a rumor… Settle down, take a pill, have a shot (liquor), and things will work out….
We’ve seen all sorts of rumors this past week… I’ll save my own flipping out till the day someone is named, thank you…
Where did I put my aspirin?
The Lord knows I need a drink or more…
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
You know what if Frazier is the guy the Bills hire I'll give him his 3 years.
I just really really feel like he’s another interview warrior and we won’t sniff the playoff’s for another decade.
As poor as the defense played the run
defense is not the area this team needs a MAJOR overhaul. I would really hope they’re considering someone with a knack for offense.
Bill Cowher may really be !@#$ing himself over if he wants to pass on Buffalo. Part of me hopes that if he goes that route, that he really messes up upon his return somewhere else.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 9, 2010 1:23 PM EST reply actions
Yeah, if he does go that route and the Bills were serious in their courtship, I hope he gets a real nice welcome in his first visit to the Ralph as the head coach of his new team.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Coaching Moves
With Pete Carroll going to Seattle, rumor has Jeff Fisher in line or least mentioned for the U.S.C. job per profootballtalk.com. Just the opening Bill Cowher is waiting for.
Have they even interviewed Frazier before reaching an agreement with Carroll? I hope they get fined big time!
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 9, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Frazier
Frazier is interviewing today and they may bring in Ron Rivera for a interview . Just a formality to abibe by the Rooney rule. Carroll is a done deal.
What I don’t get is if it’s public knowledge that Carroll is going there, how does any interview at this point get taken seriously? I think it’s a disgrace if allowed.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 9, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
YOUR CRAZY IF U THINK FRAZIER ISNT A GREAT CANDIDATE
Whats not to like about this guy? his defense is incredible and he’s been pursued by multiple franchises in the past. He just hasnt had his shot to be head coach yet. Look at how his defense ranks the past 3 years….and buffalo fans need to chill with the gregg williams comparison…U never know til you try. Every great head coach wasnt a head coach to start with right? sooooo look at this logically people. Honestly its sad to see Bills fans thriving on RUMORS of a big name coach…thats desperation…and while I understand its desperate times lets be alittle less pathetic…If Frazier was our new head coach…If Perry Fewell was our new head coach Iwopuldnt be dissapointed….
Gabezababe
Frazier
Look at how his defense ranks the past 3 years
I did above. The rushing stats are obviously great, but any team/coach with that front 4 would have success. The pass defenses have been mediocre to bad under Frazier.
Also, if he keeps getting all these looks from multiple franchises, why hasn’t he been hired? Must be something…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Jan 9, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
my sentiments exactly
as i was commenting below, Vikings D has been good, but with their line, our defense would be better. i mean, what has this guy really done other than field a suspect pass defense. now, that is a non issue here, we all know we ranked second for interceptions, so he gets an upgrade. but why won’t anyone take this guy if he is so coveted? and besides, our offense has been nothing but offensive in recent years, steadily ranking worst. i want to know what the plan is there… as in, who are the assitants going to be? or why not look at offensive minded Coachs? Harbaugh. there it is. i mean i do feel this way, and this is still half kidding, but i mean…. come on. our defense has a chance continue to improve and yet our offense has “talent” and “ability” at “skill positions” (see Lee Evans, Fred Jackson, Marshawn(?), surprising potential in a line that had no chance this year….) and NO ONE TO LEAD THESE INDIVIDUALS TO SUCCESS. no one on the field, or on the sideline(or in the booth for that matter; who knows where the next OC will actually stand….)
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
The “any coach could do well with that front 4” thing doesn’t fly with me, because it’s used as a knock against him. Why the hell should we dock Frazier points because he had good players to work with? Wouldn’t he want to replicate that type of talent in Buffalo?
That argument makes less than zero sense to me.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
what i am saying
is that with guys like that in the trenches there should have been more production from the secondary.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
OK, but we already have a productive secondary. Not seeing the problem here.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
How about that there's little to no chance
of the Bills having Willy & Willy and Allen on their line in the next 3 years? That’s not a problem?
Sure, but that problem exists if Bill Cowher is the head coach, too.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
just because he gets the gift
of improvement in one area doesn’t mean that he would just instantly have more success here. as i commented earlier i am aware we ranked 2nd in interceptions in the league behind GB. and without the "amazing " line of the vikes. but the moral of the story is he is not necessarily getting the most from his players whom are above average. we don’t need a defensive slump from a lack of respect from our players or the changes he may implement. we need an offensive surge far more
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Again, I agree about the offense. And this idea that players wouldn’t respect him because of the Vikings’ statistical rankings is absurd. Players will look at Minnesota, see 12-4, then look at Frazier’s hand and see two Super Bowl rings. They’ll play for the guy.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Or they can just watch the Super Bowl Shuffle. :-)
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
they played for DJ too
and got a 7-9 best. i need to know that they know how to stay injury free and that they get some continuity. they play similar brand of D so i am not saying that they won’t be able to correlate most of the info but i am wondering if he will see same results here if our offense never lets the defense off the field again this year. need offense… need offense… need offense… broken record… tired of saying it… fix the friggin offense… haha
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Know how to stay injury free?
Not sure how you “know” how to do that?
Stop playing football? I’m pretty sure they tried. Some teams are lucky. Some have good strength and conditioning coaches. Some have a lot of freak things (Poz’s arm, Butlers injury, Woods injury) happen to them in one season.
If only Wood had learned how to not break his leg……
Btw…I’m being very sarcastic and tongue in cheek, so don’t take this wrong. That having been said, I’m not sure how any coach would avoid the injuries the Bills had this year. There are many things a coach can fix around here, but the injuries probably aren’t one of them.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Well yes he would
But how much input do you think Frazier had in acquiring that talent? I’m going with less than zero. Thus making it kind of hard to replicate that talent in Buffalo.
are you kidding me?
The last GOOD coach we had was Marv himself. Wade was medicore….Williams was garbage….Mularkey as garbage…..Jauron was the entire garbage dump! We are the EXPERTS in spotting a sh*tty coach 1000 miles away by now, and Frazier is NO different than any of these guys! Certain Coordinators are meant to STAY coordinators, and this is another one! And before you talk about his Defense, look at how inconsistant they are for how much talent they have! its SCARY how many red flags are flying at full speed that the Bills just ignore yet again! Greg Williams was arguably the best D-Coord in the league w/ Tennessee but fell on his face here!…..went back to Washington, then N.O. and is back being a great COORDINATOR! PLEASE RALPH….PLEASE BUDDY…..DONT DO THIS TO US AGAIN!!!!
Frazier is a proven DC Rivera is NOT
Rivera isnt proven anyting he took the job midyear. Fraziers D has been great for a couple years.
Gabezababe
Rivera
Rivera was the DC all season this year. He was the Chicago DC for 3 years, as well, and had pretty good success there.
The Bears had the 2nd ranked defense in 2005 and the 5th ranked in 2006. That’s not bad, I’d say.
Minnesota has been 6th overall the past two years, fueled by a dominant run defense.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
and last i checked the Chargers seem to be doing some things well, thanks to Nix, and the people he chose to surround himself in that organization. I trust him, but a single interview is just not enough information to me to make this decision. I trust that they will make the correct decision, and if they don’t we can’t control it anyway. either way we upgrade because DJ was mediocre at best and most of these candidates have upside to be mediocre at worst.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
defense?
for a team that has only improved on defense year after year, we sure do seem to struggle on offense a bit. i agree that it would seem that the people our new HC surrounds himself with is more of a concern to me. Vikings D has been good, but with their line, our defense would be better.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Rivera
I just do not understand why they have not interviewed him this week. What scares me is they really did not do their due diligence for the GM job, althought I think Nix could be good, I just hope they do their homework for the head coaching job.
they can't right?
i don’t believe they can interview with him until the Chargers are eliminated ie after their superbowl win.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
No,
Same as Frazier, they could this week with permission from SD.
but would they?
is that really in their best interest now is to create a distraction? another concern i have is that childress is allowing teams to entertain him which would mean he has to replace him. if he is not concerned, why is Frazier so desired? wouldn’t you want to get the absolute most out of your staff at this time of your season? unless you aren’t as pivotal, or because Childress really really respects him. So i guess either but most teams do not give permission if focused on playoffs. most.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Why would he block a guy’s chance on something like this? At the end of the year he’s half to let him interview if I’m not mistaken.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
IF this is true – and it’s the first I’ve heard it, and it’s an easy proclamation to make because the Bills have interviewed TWO GUYS – I’m OK with it.
The Jauron comparisons borderline disgust me. Don’t condemn Frazier, folks. He’s a different person.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
as is each and every
person in the league. so what’s the real relevance here?
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
meaning that comparisons will be made
they have to in order to correlate the information.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Correlate information, yes. Correlate results? Hell no. Jauron and Dungy are nearly identical in temperament, but one was obviously much more productive than the other, eh?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
one had another
peyton manning than the other. haha. but yeah i don’t disagree with that. however, neither individual screams Offensive Overhaul either. and i believe that is what the fans want and need for us to have success. It may be a passing league but many teams success in the pass game stems from strong run ability and that is more beneficial to us in inclement weather as Fred Jackson helped to demonstrate in the Colts game. set up the best passer rating for Fitzy for the season as well i believe, though i might be wrong.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
I’m with you on the offensive thing. If Frazier indeed gets the job, it is absolutely critical that he find himself an excellent offensive coordinator. That’s been Jauron’s biggest issue his entire career, and I’d hate to see it happen to Frazier, too.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
exaclty.
which i why i prefer offensive mind for coach because you will double the knowledge and focus of the offense at LEAST. a HC an OC and a new QB would be the best steps towards future success. Look at the teams that have done that recently. I am even ok with a veteran QB if he has a more consistent line in front of him the sky is the limit
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
I don’t necessarily disagree with that. Given the choice between Perfect Offensive Coordinator and Perfect Defensive Coordinator, I’d take POC for this job, too. But if Buffalo went PDC, you can’t condemn the guy because you’re disappointed.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
i wouldn't be disappointed
more like aggravated. Look at the real issues and address them. OC and offense is bigger concern. start with Line or QB and then go from there once staff in place. Defense should not even see a pick in first two rounds unless we trade Marshawn or have a great value DT. Another pick like Maybin will send us spiraling out further
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Would you be aggravated if Frazier and Nix addressed the offense first, and in the ways you just described?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
well i mean
if they went ahead and put in a Philip Rivers with a similar line and ran more and called some play action and controlled clock…. then Bozo the Clown can be the HC. HOMIE THE CLOWN can be the HC i don’t care at all who is on the sideline if we have SOME kind of offensive success. i am tired of the pathetic stats Lee has mustered. That poor guy should be destroying Andre’s records.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
1. Reed was way more versatile than Evans so I hope you aren’t serious with that thought. Reed word turn a short pass into a long one like it was nobody’s business. I don’t really remember Lee doing that. Could that be a product of the QB…yes. But, until I see differently, they don’t even belong in the same sentence.
2. If Bozo the clown could be the head coach, then why freak about Frazier. Isn’t it then more about philosophy and personnel?
3. I agree totally about playcalling, but that won’t be Frazier’s job, it will be the new OC.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
so reed was the slot you are saying?
but i think that is my point. i would take a mismatch from lee in slot on same side with TO. Put steve johnson out there as the other wideout where josh reed has proven incapable… we don’t maximize with the talent we have, thus making them irrelevant, thus un- talented
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Ummmmm….I was responding to your comment about breaking Andre’s records….Andre’s last name was Reed.
As far as Josh Reed goes….I could take it or leave it.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Possibly overlooked here is
That he also needs to hire an excellent offensive line coach as well. Theres a lot of potential along our trenches but we need to get a guy who can turn potential to production.
The fact that you are so on board with this scares the hell out of me!!!!!
Makes me think the speculation is true and the decision has been made. Got to tow the line….
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
I’m not “on board” with it. I’d like to see them conduct more interviews; I’d be very disappointed if they didn’t. But I wouldn’t turn that disappointment into “Frazier sucks,” because that’s just not the case. Not yet, anyway.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Frazier sucks. But I don't think he has the potential to be great either
The Bears game is a perfect example of why I worry about Frazier. The Vikes were without Pat Williams and needed that game to try to catch the Saints for home field adv. They gave up 36 pts to the freaking Bears.
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
You’re talking about one game in which a star player was missing. Is Dick LeBeau a bad coordinator because the Steelers’ defense was god-awful this year without Polamalu?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
he was
if you think it a little ill advised to design a specific scheme around a player who is injury prone due to his style of play. unless you have more than one of them. which you don’t.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Maybe that’s a bad example since his Bengals teams were terrible. :-P
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Comparing LeBeau and Frazier is like comparing Bill Cowher with Dick Jauron
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well, no, it isn’t, but I’m done beating my head against brick walls.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
which is why I didn't bother answering the Polamalu question....you know better than that
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
I know better than what? I believe my question was legitimate, because I wasn’t comparing men, I was comparing situations.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
players get hurt
but i believe if i had bob sanders or troy polamalu i would want another solid SS to run my scheme. and thus i would accept that the defense may have limitations when the superstars arent in there. it seems like they just dont plan on not having these guys even though their history would dictate otherwise.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
That’s an entirely different issue than “knowing how to not get hurt” like you stated above…I agree about having a “backup” plan. That having been said, If your starters are as weak as the Bills in some positions, your backups are probably even worse.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Do you really think the Steelers problems on defense were all due to Polamalu's injury?
I am not saying it didn’t hurt, but come on. Where was the pressure on the QB? All that can’t be put on Polamalu.
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
thats like asking
whether or not LT being hurt last year hurt the Chargers. really? i mean when you design a defense around a dude, and then he isn’t there, it won’t be as successful.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
I agree in some ways, but the Colts have designed their offense around Manning. Does that make the organization foolish?
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Their defensive stats were a lot better in the games Polamalu played.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
The Bears also lost an LB called Brian Urlacher....remember him?????? I was pretty good too.
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
RIGHT, BUT...........
…..The players that DID play are still better than what is on the Buffalo roster, so if that defense is giving up 36 in a MUST win game w/ SOME talent, what will they do with even LESS talent?!
I disagree. Leslie Frazier is a soft, conservative guy, who isn’t what we need (which is a fiery offensive mind). I think we would be making a big mistake signing him, but again with Ralph as the owner, you can only expect crappy hires.
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you believe that he is “soft” and “conservative”? Because he’s compared to Tony Dungy? It’s a comparison. They’re two different guys.
I have no idea what Frazier would accomplish in Buffalo, but I know condemning him as a bad hire out of the gate because of who he’s compared to is, to be polite, ill-advised.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I see where you’re going, but it remains a fact that he’s very much a-like Dick Jauron, and everybody who doesn’t think he is are fooling themselves. I have quite a few friends and family members that are Vikings-fans, and they have told me that he’s a soft, conservative coach, who isn’t very impressive, when you consider just how many terrific players he has on his defense and how inconsistent production he has gotten from them.
I understand that you’re trying to be optimistic and believe that there’s actually somebody at OBD that still have some brains left, but I know this: As long as senile Ralph runs the show, we’ll get some unknown coordinator, who he hopes to be the next Marv Levy; something we all know is not going to happen.
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I’m not trying to be optimistic. Why am I always cast as the optimist? Should I use fewer smiley faces? :)
All I’m saying is that “Frazier is another Jauron” is erroneous, because he’s not. Temperament doesn’t mean crap. All that matters is results. If Frazier gets the job and goes 24-33, then sure, go ahead and call him another Jauron.
I’m sick of the “senile Ralph” stuff too. He’s not senile, he’s just very set in his ways – and for the record, he hasn’t made a decision yet, either.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
never said senile myself
starting to wonder how much input he really has himself about operations though. i mean, not every owner is Jerry Jones.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
Ralph Wilson has to sign off on every football decision here. It’s always been that way, and it’ll be that way until he passes.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
i sign off on things all day
some matter some don’t. can he still distiquish is my question. if he cares so much about the team, why is it that he won’t ensure its viability by letting people who love and care about the franchise purchase it. leave it to a family member who would at least sell it. i can’t trust in the fact he isn’t just milking us for what we are worth
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
The guy is senile. I mean the guy still apparently lives in the fantasy world of an illusion that he knows how to find GM’s and HC’s, when the fact remains he doesn’t. I would be somewhat OK with it, if I thought for a second that this was Buddy Nix’s call, but I don’t believe it is. I believe this is Ralph’s call, and therefore I’m going to be very pessimistic regardless of who we hire (not named Billick or Cowher).
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
- I, of course, mean successful GM’s and HC’s.
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nix is going to narrow down the field to one or two candidates. Just because a candidate usually meets with a Superintendent in a lot of school districts doesn’t mean the hiring committee send forth three candidates. A lot of the time we send one candidate to meet with the ultimate decision maker as a formality. If something goes horribly wrong it might get thrown back but normally the hire is approved.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not Ralph’s call. It’s Nix/Brandon’s call, and Ralph has to OK it. Do you really think if Nix/Brandon got Cowher to agree to coach here that Ralph would drop the old veto? I sincerely doubt it.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, plus if reports are to be believed, he wanted Sherman and Marv wanted Jauron. He let his trusted friend and “football guy” make the ultimate decision. My problem is sometimes he does that, sometimes he doesn’t. I think that has to worry a guy like Cowher who will have his pick of jobs.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
As Paul Hamilton usually says: I can never predict Ralph Wilson.
That man is an unpredictable as they come. Btw. why the hell is Brandon involved in this? The guy is a business man. He shouldn’t be involved in any football decision, because he’s simply not a football guy.
I still firmly believe this is Ralph’s call and when we go 20-33 or something over the next three years, we’ll know that it was his call, because everything Ralph does seems to backfire on him.
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Brandon knows the Bills and Ralph’s mentality a little better and I think he trusts Brandon. As such, I think Ralph will be very “dialed” in to this hire b/c it will be his last. If Brandon likes him, Ralph will probably like him. That doesn’t necessarily mean he will be hired, though.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
which is my main concern
what does Brandon know about football operations? with all his marketing experience. oh and a year in a postion he wasn’t qualified for the begin with.
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
What position? He was a GM in figurehead only. He didn’t make any personnel decisions and he won’t now except head coach. And the only input he will have is whether he can work with the guy or not. Why do people bother bashing Russ when they know he has no football background?
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
The employer isn't the only one sizing up the potential relationship
Frazier could have questions that Nix couldn’t answer, but Brandon could.
Plus, he “blew them away” when comparing interviews with Fewell. They can’t be done yet. I think they’re lining up their ducks.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 9, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone know...
Who Leslie Frazier could bring in for assistants? More or less who he might have ties to or does have ties to?
good question
that is probably the most significant point in the discussion and hasn’t really been addressed. and no, i don’t know. haha
FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie
That's what I was thinking
To me it seems he could be the best motivator and teacher, but isn’t any HC only going to bring the team as far as his staff can help him bring the team? I would love to know who he could bring in to run the offense for example. I know he’s been a few places so he must have ties to some coordinators or position coaches around the league. But if he can’t bring in a guy to run the offense that knows what he’s doing, then aren’t we kind of in the same boat we’ve been in for a while now?
Chris Palmer is the one name I’ve heard floated in reports.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Here you go. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Giants QB coach. Former OC and HC of a couple teams. Would be a quality hire for a first-time HC.
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=23
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn’t he a rather unsuccessful, but highly touted QB for the Falcons?
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: Yeasayer - Ambling Alp
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 9, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll try to cobble together a list of names later.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
If Frazier is so great, why isn't he the head coach of Minnesota?
It’s not like Brad Childress is such a genius head coach that he would be preventing Frazier from getting the job if Minnesota liked him enough?
if that is your sentiment
why was Tomlin never the HC at Minnesota either?
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 9, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Well, he’d have to have interviewed for that position, to start with. And as Brad Childress hired him… well, there you go.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
No, your right. My comment was kinda dumb. I just want someone with NFL HC experience.
I’m sick of hiring unknown quantities. Ralph got me excited talking about the money he was willing to spend and saying they would make a “big splash”. (were those the exact words? I forget)
I though with the firing of Jauron it was gonna signal the end to doing things half-assed. I thought at least if we were gonna fail and be miserable, it would be with a head coach who was a proven winner and at least brought some initial excitement back to the team, but who maybe just failed with us.
by StroudFanClub on Jan 9, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
PFT says Frazier has had 5 hour interview with Seatle, any thoughts?
"Next time I get the opportunity I am going to hold on and make a better decision." ~ Leodis McKelvin. (Can't ask for anythitng more than that)
Well, if Carroll falls through, then he’ll have a shot, but that seems a “done deal” from what I’ve read.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Carroll: 5 year, 35 million
“reportedly” all but signed
by ccthemovieman on Jan 9, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, they had a 30 min interview followed by a 4.5 hour nap
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
must have been an intense 30 minutes.
"Next time I get the opportunity I am going to hold on and make a better decision." ~ Leodis McKelvin. (Can't ask for anythitng more than that)
haha, or a 30 minute interview followed by the steak and lobster surf and turf, dessert and couple bottles of wine that they promised Frazier to get him to show up for the interview.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
As long as they interview more canidates, I’d be fine w/ Frazier.
Just please interview more! Hopefully Philly loses tonight, so we can get Sean McDermott in for a interview or Russ Grimm next week if Ari loses
"It took twenty five years to get there, and they did it in championship style" - Van Miller 1/20/91.
Not Us, Not now
I would propose that Frazier may be a great head coach in the right situation. I just don’t think it is here right now. We need a teacher and an emotional person. We had a reserved person and I believe we need a different attitude, much the same way the Yankees went from Torre to Girardi.
Wanting a different attitude a personality in no way should be projected as negativity towards Frazier as a person or as a coach. Instead it should imply right for someone but maybe not us right now.
by audthoughts on Jan 9, 2010 4:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
My biggest problem with this
is that in his 70 years on this planet, as a G.M. Buddy Nix has conducted a grand total of 2 NFL head coach interviews. Being “blown away” by Frazier’s interview is based on using the Perry Fewell interview as the sole source for comparison. They don’t even yet have a reasonable perspective of the HC interviewing process. If this team chooses Frazier prior to conducting several more HC interviews, then they are a truly hopeless bunch of fools.
most of my posts get deleted :(
We have no idea if he say in on interviews anywhere else, though. Plus he’s interviewed coaches before when he was a head coach hiring assistants.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
He wasn’t. He was a head coach at Tennessee Chattanooga. He’s hired coaches before to be on his staff.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
"leader in the clubhouse"
Peter King on the pre-game show just confirmed the golf analogy, stating that “unfortunately for Leslie Frazier, most of the golfers are still out on the course.”
Good one, Pete. Yesterday King said the exact same thing on his twitter account. Something like “If I had to guess it would be Frazier.” Wow, way to pick one of the two guys who wasn’t here before.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
That was a response to my tweet to him last night.
I really really really hope they interview more people. Please. Pretty please.
"It took twenty five years to get there, and they did it in championship style" - Van Miller 1/20/91.
by Michael_Necci on Jan 9, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I would think they would…of course, I thought they would interview more than two people for GM.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
Fischer not interested in USC because of the Chaos there per Peter King tweet
That says something that he didn’t say “because I’m happy with Tennesse”……
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
Whoops, per NFL Draft tweet, my bad, prob where they got it.
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
Sorry to use rational thought amongst the mindless knee-jerk reactions, but...
First of all, anyone making personal cheap shots by calling Ralph Wilson senile loses instant credibility. He is 91. Of course his mind is not what it used to be. I think if any of us had a choice we would not want a 91-year old man as captain of the ship. It’s hard just to live day to day when you are 91, much less be in charge of an NFL franchise. But is it the right thing to do to berate him as senile and incompetent just because he is getting old? My grandfather is 86 and can’t live and operate the same way he used to. If someone berated him just because he was getting old, I would punch him in the face and spit on him when he fell to the ground. Ralph Wilson has his faults, but there is no need to be so nasty. Lay off the old and senile crap and make rational discussion points. You’re wasting everyone’s time and making yourself look bad.
Second, people are judging Leslie Frazier with almost zero knowledge about him. Well, other than of course the family and friends who are Vikings fans. We all know mobs of fans know the right thing to do – like Philly should have drafted Ricky Williams over Donovan McNabb and Houston should have drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young over Mario Williams.
Third, when we hired Buddy Nix, Dick Jauron, Marv Levy, promoted Russ Brandon, drafted McGahee, Losman, Whitner – all of those moves were met with mixed reviews by NFL analysts and people in the NFL. I have not read or heard one analyst, reporter, or NFL source contend that Leslie Frazier would be anything less than an excellent head coach. Not one. Does that guarantee he will be successful? Absolutely not. I have no idea and neither do you. But to compare hiring Frazier to any of the recent questionable moves just because he’s not Cowher or Billick is ridiculous.
We all want Cowher. The Bills want Cowher. Everyone else will have some flaws or holes. There is no other perfect candidate. It might not happen so get ready for it. It’s possible for someone other than Bill Cowher to win in the NFL. Would there be big waves if we hire the equivalent of John Harbaugh or Mike Smith? No, but fan excitement is not necessarily a precursor for success.
by Nick315 on Jan 9, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
We all want Cowher. The Bills want Cowher
Excellent post.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Fantastic Post
While fans are intelligent, we sometimes get the “mob” mentality. Great point bringing up McNabb and Mario Williams.
Sometimes the fans are right. Sometimes the team is right. Bottom line is that no comparison can accurately predict is Frazier will be a good head coach. ESPN’s 50 wins in five years as a coordinator under a great head coach is a strong indicator of future success for coordinators. Unfortunately, only one guy meets that criteria right now: Marty Morningweg.
But Frazier and Rivera have done pretty well using that metric.
Frazier has coached for three seasons under Brad Childress, and has been a part of 30 wins. Not saying that Childress is a great coach, but Frazier’s on the right track of meeting the metric.
If you count Frazier coaching DB’s at Indy under Dungy in 2005-2006, that’s 26 more wins under a successful head coach. It doesn’t meet the metric in terms of HC-coordinator relationship, but it does point out that Frazier has been a part of a lot of winning.
Frazier has spent a great deal of time over the past five years as part of winning organizations, and in the case of Tony Dungy, a Super Bowl winning head coach.
Ron Rivera was a DC for the Bears from 2004-2006, and the Bears won 29 times. With San Diego from 2008-2009, he was part of another 21 wins. It doesn’t exactly meet the metric in terms of one highly successful Super Bowl winning HC, but that’s still a lot of winning as a DC.
Very well said. rec’d.
Good point on Frazier. Every NFL insider worth listening too (King, Mort, Scheft, Glazer etc..) says Leslie is a legit canidate.
I think everyone is afraid that the Bills will just hire this guy w/o talking to anyone else, in which case I’d be upset as well.
"It took twenty five years to get there, and they did it in championship style" - Van Miller 1/20/91.
I’m more afraid that this already very soft football team under Dick Jauron becomes even softer with a soft-spoken coach like Frazier, who in my opinion is another Dick Jauron waiting to happen
There's the right way, the wrong way, the army way and the Buffalo Bills way
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 9, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Possible Frazier coordinators
Offense:
Kevin Rodgers – QB Coach, Vikings; former OC Syracuse, ND, Virginia Tech
Defensive:
Diron Reynolds – Asst. DL coach, Vikings; former Def. Quality Control Coach for Colts while Frazier worked for the team; former Wake Forest LB
Fred Pagac – Linebackers coach, Vikings; former Ohio State DC, LB coach in KC, Oak
John Teerlinck – DL coach, Colts; worked with Fraizer when both def. assts. in Indy
Alan Williams – DB coach, Colts; worked with Frazier when both def. assts. in Indy
This list is only hypothetical and is just guys who coached with Frazier at other spots.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
yipee
none of those are gonna motivate me to flip on the TV next year, or go to a game. After a DECADE (think about that….10 years) of failure, we as Bills fans have EARNED the right to be satisfied with our coaching staff! This all just looks like more of the same, and iut appears we are headed for “Decade of Fail 2”
And who could the Bills hire as an offensive coordinator that will make you flip on the TV? Just because you’ve never heard of them doesn’t make them bad coaches. As a Syracuse fan, I can tell you that Rogers did great things with McNabb and co. back in the 90s. He’s got 14 years of experience calling plays at big time college programs.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
maybe this is great timing as McNabb might be playing his last year in Philly...
. As a Syracuse fan, I can tell you that Rogers did great things with McNabb and co. back in the 90s.
by NordicBillsfan on Jan 9, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think it has to do with the big splash we were promised
People need to forget about the Bills making a big splash….better to think of it like watching Lake Erie freeze over.
For those of us who wish Cowher would accept the Bills HC job, I recently heard some good advice....."You can crap in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first..." - Burgess Merideth
by Joe P. on Jan 9, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
to qualifiy that.....
I was speaking about the HC, not so much the OC/DC. Should’ve made that more clear. My bad.
Dude, he could always hire someone else. These are guys I know worked with Frazier at some point. That’s it.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Trestman would ever leave the CFL to become an OC in the NFL.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 9, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
I actually really like the idea. It’s probably the only way he gets a shot at an NFL head coaching job.
Follow me on Twitter
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 9, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Unless the Raiders make him their head coach.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Jan 9, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
At this point, I’m expecting Al Davis to cut the Raiders organization and relocate the entirety of the Montreal Alouettes franchise to Oakland.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Jan 12, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
If he’s willing to do it, awesome…
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 10, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure some has posted this
But haven’t we done this dance? New GM blown away in interview by Defensive Coordinator?
wow, this is happening all over again.
Didnt we want a proven NFL coach? Wasn’t that the plan? Bilick and Cowher should be the top ones here. Marty being my third. Any “one” of those three would be good. Unfortunately this is why Buffalo sucks, they will not learn from their mistakes and take another Dick Jauron. I mean the guy could be good, but everyone in Buffalo wants a proven guy to come in here that “has” won in this league. This is really too bad. well lets hope they interview more than 2 guys. I dont understand why they haven’t contacted Brian Bilick yet. why not just interview him? it couldn’t hurt, and maybe he will “blow” you away.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Buffalo Rumblings
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
