QB Talk...
by bunner on Oct 14, 2010 9:31 AM EDT
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Hi all, I'm new to the site and love it, great work everyone! I'm a life long Bills fan that lives in Toronto have family in Buffalo and have always followed the Bills through good and bad.
One thing I've noticed is a lot of talk about needing to draft a franchise QB but to me it seems a little like putting the cart before the horse. I think using their #1 pick on a 'franchise' QB is a bit of a mistake in 2011. To me one of the biggest needs on this team is to shore up the o-line first as if you put a top QB prospect in and get him crushed and kill his confidence he may never develop.
Personally, I'd like to see the Bills potentially trade down in the draft in 2011 to be in a spot to still draft one of the best OT and get something else of use (other draft picks or a player). Then use their top pick in 2012 on the franchise QB and hope that Luck stays in college one more year and they have a shot at him. I'd like to see them build from the line back, shoring up the line will protect the QB and give Spiller a chance to excel also.
Go Bills!
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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“You don’t pass on a possible franchise QB if you don’t have one.”
Of course, we did pass on Clausen and McCoy in the 2nd round. Should be interesting to see how they pan out. McCoy starts this Sunday.
Nothing like throwing him in a fire right off the bat.
“Hey Colt, youre starting this week, at Pittsburgh, with Big Ben coming back.”
Are you ready? lol
Buffal Bills. We have no 'O'
In a perfect world… we would have the O-line set before we get our franchise QB…
Problem is that this years class is rather weak when it comes to cornerstone O-lineman. Where the potential big 3 or 4 QB’s are greater. This year… I think its gotta be QB first.
Buffal Bills. We have no 'O'
But if Luck does stay in school for another year, I think that your “O-line first” mentality is stronger. Hes the QB I want… whether it be in ’11 or ’12. Who knows… maybe if its ’12 we get a shot at landing Harbaugh too…
Buffal Bills. We have no 'O'
In reality.
This may be the first year in a long time an OL may not be taken in the first 24 picks.
If Luck isn’t there, Locker is fine, probably even a better fit for the talent we have in my opinion.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 15, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Sam Bradford
Bradford seems to be doing just fine behind a ‘shaky’ O-line and a terrible team, because he has the talent you want in a number1 overall pick. If there is a guy available that can turn around the disparity of the franchise then you have to take him and fill in the holes around him with the rest of the draft and free agency. Talented first round QB’s do not come around that often. You have to choose what offers the most value to the team at that moment for the long haul and in this league you never know what will happen in the next yr and the yr after and so on…. If that means drafting a Locker or Luck and sitting him the first year for Fitzy or Brohm while the O-line is worked out then so be it… but you CANNOT pass on first round QB talent and waste it on a positional player that will prob suck anyways once they get in a Bills uni ( IE whitner, maybin, mckelvin…need i continue)
not sure how their OT draft pick is doing... Smith?
But yeah… if there is a franchise QB and you dont have one… gotta grab’em
Wah, wah, wah-wah.....
Go Bills?
by killascript on Oct 14, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Smith is seriously stuggling with his pass blocking but he is a solid run blocker. However, he’s playing right tackle while Roger Saffold plays on the left, so I have to say that he definitely is not playing up to his draft status.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
Smith is seriously stuggling with his pass blocking but he is a solid run blocker. However, he’s playing right tackle while Roger Saffold plays on the left, so I have to say that he definitely is not playing up to his draft status.
They are still a huge upgrade on our OTs
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 15, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
seems to me...
that every year there are a few ‘franchise’ QBs in the draft but I do understand the points about taking the best player, especially if there are no cornerstone OL men available
Maybe
An idea might be to try and find some O-line help through FA. Any average to above average tackle is going to be significantly better than what we are playing with now. With a draft class that is probably going to be fairly deep with potential starting QBs and lean on the O-line prospects, spend the high draft picks on a QB and DE/OLB help and let FA help fill in the blanks on the line. Lineman with experience tend to adjust to new teams/schemes quicker than rookies as well. Just my thoughts.
That’s what I’ve been ruminating. Maybe we make some moves in free agency. Heck, if we can get a franchise QB through free agency a la the Saints with Brees, that works for me, too.
Or was Brees acquired by trade? I can’t remember and I’m too lazy to click in the google search box.
FA
Only Miami and NO were serious in their interest for Brees.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 15, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
nope - you take the QB
If you have a chance at what your team considers a franchise QB then you take him – zero questions asked.
If they take a different position, win more games next year then draft at a higher position int he draft then they aren’t in a position to grab the top QBs.
out of drafting position and necessity do you take the QB because there are no guarantees your going to like someone more or, and more importantly, you might not be in a position to take the guy next year that you want.
which is why QBs always go first and they should – then fill the other spots throughout the draft. teams find great linemen and other positions in later rounds.
Listen! You smell something?
LB first
LB is our weakest position…inside/outside doesn’t matter. If we can find a talented LB in the mid first round, trade down to add picks and pick up the guy (who will probably cost $millions less than a top 5 picked QB). This team cannot afford to hand a $70 million contract to a rookie who may / may not perform.
If we can find a bonafide star, I would be OK with picking an LB with the early pick, but it would have to be a clear ProBowl caliber player to merit using that pick. Otherwise, I’d rather we fill in holes the New England way, by trading down and adding more good value picks. We need 3 LB’s, 2 OT’s, 1 DE, 1 TE, 1 WR more than we need a QB at this point. Fitz is finding his stride…with a decent team around him he may actually be as good as his 7th ranked QB stat suggests.
by NoiseIsTheBestRevenge on Oct 14, 2010 12:05 PM EDT reply actions
it’s sooooo difficult to trade down from the first or 2nd pick because of cost. teams aren’t trading up because ofthe cost associated with it.
Get us a franchise QB and be done with it – no one can convince me otherwise. If Nix and Co. like one of these guys then we have to take him. This franchise has been pathetic because of a lack of a QB and you guys want to pass up a golden opportunity to take one and hope we get one in draft after that? I don’t get it – it’s a QBs league – we haven’t had a QB since Kelly and our record shows that.
Listen! You smell something?
by J2 on Oct 14, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still not convinced QB is #1 position of need
Fitz may not be the consensus favourite as a franchise QB, but he’s getting the job done like one – even despite the lack of talent we’ve surrounded him with. 6th in the league in QB rating isn’t too shabby…there’s not one Bills player that can boast similar effectiveness at their position. Just imagine what he could do with a decent line to protect him? He’s no Jim Kelly, but I wouldn’t expect that from any draft pick for a few years, no matter how much we pay him.
As far as history goes, it’s when Cornelius Bennett was signed that our fortunes really started to take off. It’s that kind of a player that the Bills lack, and their biggest weakness right now…the defense.
by NoiseIsTheBestRevenge on Oct 14, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Three games from Fitz is hardly enough to judge him. The only reason his QB rating is so high is the TDs and do you really buy that he’s going to be throwing 2.5 per game, long term? For QBs who have attempted more passes than Fitz, he’s ranked 15th (tied with Bruce Gradkowski) in yards per pass attempt.
The three game sample size is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Is Michael Vick suddenly a franchise QB again? Alex Smith had a three game stretch last year that had a QB rating in the nineties. Jason Campbell had three different three game stretches last year like that. David Garrard has been streaky for years now and actually finished the 2007 season with a QB rating over 100. For Bills fans, most importantly, who can forget the stretch that Edwards had to open that season 5-1?
As far as history goes, it’s when Cornelius Bennett was signed that our fortunes really started to take off.
Do you honestly think that Bennett was more important to that team’s success than Kelly? And the Bills were below .500 in Biscuit’s first season. They were on an upward trend with or without him.
There’s also not a LB with Bennett’s abilities in this draft. Maybe Akeem Ayers will be that kind of player, but Bennett was chosen 2nd overall by the Colts and is one of the better LBs to come out of college in the history of the draft. If there was that kind of LT, Derrick Thomas, Biscuit, Junior Seau or Willie McGinnist caliber of prospect this year, it could be a real debate, but there’s not. The Bills’ options are a QB, WR, CB or DL who would play the 5 technique at DE in this defense.
SFC: Were you excited about Clausen dropping to the Bills pick? Or did you have a feeling that the Bills wouldn’t pick him anyway?
Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.
nobody knows
everyone keeps saying there is no one of bruce smith’s caliber… no one of bennett’s caliber…
when these players came out, nobody knew even then what they were going to become… everyone saw potential but i am sure a whole bunch of people were skeptical…
if we had taken clay mathews at no.11, everyone would have screamed reach… but in hindsight, that pick would look good…
everyone’s points again and again just proves you need qb not for team’s need but for your mental satisfaction that you picked a top qb… doesnt matter if he is any good or not… coz or that, you are willing to pass on any and every talent
by statcruncher on Oct 15, 2010 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not talking about an NFL player of Smith or Bennett’s caliber. I’m talking about those guys as college prospects. Smith was an obvious first overall pick for the Bills. Biscuit was the 2nd overall pick in the draft, everybody knew he was going to be a stud. There isn’t a guy in this draft like that. There are no top 5 overall type of prospects at LB to merit the Bills’ consideration. That’s my point.
Quarterbacks are 10 times more impactful than any other position in the league. They easily have the most longevity. QBs go first overall almost every single year and NFL teams don’t take them for their mental satisfaction. If there’s a QB prospect worth drafting that high, it’s a no brainer.
SFC: Were you excited about Clausen dropping to the Bills pick? Or did you have a feeling that the Bills wouldn’t pick him anyway?
Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.
As a Seahawk fan (Aaron Curry, 4th overall, 2nd year player)...
I disagree.
Take the best QB, OL or DL available if you have an early pick. Those are your foundation positions.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 14, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
keep in perspective, a good chunk of Fitz’s stats are coming in garbage time against soft prevent defenses. he’s not putting up those numbers when it counts.
the Jets game
the O faced blitz packages right up to the end. The Pats game we were in until the final INT was thrown with 4 min. left. The only true “garbage time” TD was the late TD against the Jags. Nearly every QB has had opportunities against “soft” prevent defenses when trying to mount a comeback or put together a quick score in the last minutes of a half, so I don’t think it’s entirely fair to subtract those stats only from his results.
by NoiseIsTheBestRevenge on Oct 14, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Jets were being d++ks and playing with us. I was surprised that they kept rushing with such a big lead, but I also wondered if that was our line just having given up. You will have a hard time convincing that the jets were playing tight d with a 31 point lead going into the 4th. Fitz showed some spunk, trying a hurry up, but it looked like a show. Go down blazing for the sake of leadership next week and the weeks ahead.
The Pats game, we were down 15 going into the 4th, then pick. That was it, game over. Fitz had a 71 yard scoring drive, but that was against the pats just playing to win.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Fitz for what he is. He is not the future. And we better hope the front office does not think that.
by oompaloompa on Oct 14, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
totally hijacking the post
but since it is qb related…i want to throw this out just to show i said it… :)
i still think Clausen is going to turn into one heck of a player… believe me, he is going to be great
I’d love to hear why you think that. I played against him in HS where he padded his stats against Division 9 schools with 700 students while he was 2 years older than most kids in his grade (yes I’m obviously biased), and i watched him through college. His brothers weren’t franchise qbs, and IMO, he’s not a franchise qb. All he has going for him are excellent mechanics and improved stats during his jr. year. Most draft analysts described him as “NFL ready” and “polished”, which I take to suggest that he won’t improve much; that he’s topped out, and if this is his potential, he’s obviously not going to be a great player.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
No
ya gotta take one of these guys, If you can get Luck or Locker, you gotta take it.
Our best bet for a tackle this year in in FA.
Show me the Baby!
agreed, and if neither is available when we pick, I think we have to go front 7 with a preference for an OLB.
Enjoying my annual three months of optimism.
Go the Falcons route:
Top QB in the 1st round
Best OT in the 2nd round
and in a draft that you say is weak in tackles, the best tackles in the draft should still be on the board at the top of the 2nd.
yeah
certainly makes sense. not sure why the 2 positions are mutually exclusive. like you can only choose one or the other and then it’s a lost cause outside of round 1.
You’re unlikely to find a Guy more inclined to take linemen early and often than me. However, if the QB of the future—who we haven’t seen since Kelly hung up his cleats—is available the the Bills need to take him. I don’t advocate taking Luck, Locker, Ponder or any other specific Guy….just finally getting Buffalo a starting quality QB to lead the franchise for the next decade. Of course that does mean putting our faith in CHIX’s personnel evaluation skills…..
It can always get worse. Let me tell you how.
by Ron From NM on Oct 14, 2010 7:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
well said...rec'd
The Chan Plan – I believe in cutting and trading my starters. This is a tough game when you don’t have any idea what to do with your players. We have not been where we needed to be in the last few years, and I only know one way to get worse….cut, trade, or release your players for little to no compensation….and if they really suck, sign them to an extension.
The NIx plan - "We've got to dig our way out"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VjPNKc0VsU
One thing to consider...
It’s not like the best OL go that much farther down than the QB’s. So we wouldn’t be able to trade down into the teens or twenties and still get a top OL. Also, teams these days don’t really want to trade up into the first 5 picks – too much money.
"When you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty. The pig likes it."
I think all this talk is dumb.
We need pass rushers. Like right now. But if no pass rusher is worth the 1st overall, take AJ Green.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
and based on spiller pick
this FO might even do this
by statcruncher on Oct 14, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I could see it.
Fitz will have a hard time floating it over his head :)
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 15, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
How could it not be a quarterback? If you watch fitz or any of the other qbs that have trotted out to throw weak or have a minute long release since forever seemingly. You have to think it can get better than that. Just take a peek at fitzs mechanics break down, and watch the ball sail four feet over roscoes head when he was wide open against the patriots. Then watch him do that again about five minutes later. Or better yet watch just about any other team play. Its unquestionably a passing leauge nowadays. Withought a quarterback consistenly winning is not happening. This is going to take a long time to rebuild. Trading down for lesser impact players might help in other years but not for the long term. If every position on your team needs an upgrade. Then you might as well start at the most important one.
Not saying we dont need a QB, because we do...
…but Fitzy hasn’t exactly been the issue with our team this year. He’s been playing decent.
by NordicBillsfan on Oct 17, 2010 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions
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