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Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

Thoughts, Mostly on the Draft

No thank you on 3-4 DE first overall

Buffalo can only consider a DE as plan C or D.  I'm talking specifically about drafting a player to be a five technique in this defense and not about taking a player who played DE in college.  For this 3-4 defense, the position simply isn't impactful enough to draft first overall.  Drafting a five technique isn't a way to jump start this pass rush.  Richard Seymour is arguably the best 3-4 DE over the last decade who fits the mold that teams are looking for.  In New England, he averaged a big 5.5 sacks per 16 games.  The biggest impact pass rushers who currently play the position are guys like Justin Smith and Shaun Ellis.  Is that really the pass rusher that is worth taking over a QB?  There are currently 26 defensive lineman who have 3 or more sacks this year.  Three of them play in a 3-4 (Ngata, Ellis and Cullen Jenkins).  The Bills need to find lineman who can control blockers and don't need big time playmakers at those positions.

Star-divide

I know the argument that people will make is that players who can collapse the pocket will help the pass rush.  My first counter point is, do you really want to draft somebody with the first overall pick to collapse the pocket so that our LBs can get to the QB?  Is that who we should make the highest paid player on the team?  I also don't buy the pocket collapsing argument as something that makes a major impact.  If defensive lineman and their ability to move blockers backwards were such a factor in the pass rush, then why are the Ravens always in Bills territory with sack numbers?  Last year the Ravens had 32 sacks, same as the Bills.  They had 33 the year before and 32 the year before that.  With Ngata and Kelly Gregg, how can that team not rack up sack numbers if pocket collapsing lineman were anything other than a modest factor in a team's pass rush success?  I'm not claiming that players who can collapse the pocket isn't a factor, but will a 285 pound player like Clayborn or even a 300+ pounder like Dareus really make enough of an impact collapsing the pocket and adding 5-6 sacks per season to be the highest paid player on the defense and the key player for Buffalo to rebuild the defense around?

The run defense is terrible.  I understand that, but Buffalo doesn't have the choice to draft an entire new defense with the first overall pick.  The choice isn't one QB vs. 11 new defenders.  The argument for a DE largely revolves around it improving this run defense, but is Marcel Dareus an improvement over Marcus Stroud in run defense to the point that it's worth him taking with the first overall pick and making him the highest paid player on the team?  How much statistical impact would Dareus really have on the amount of yards per carry that Buffalo gives up?  A tenth of a yard per carry?  An entire quarter of a yard per carry?  Even that is like 6-7 fewer rushing yards given up per game.

Gotta take a QB

I think anybody trying to argue that the Bills' defense is their biggest flaw and therefore, the biggest need is making a mistake.  It doesn't matter whether this current roster most needs help rushing the passer, at OT, at QB or with the run D.  This is a really bad football team and they're rebuilding.  Trying to figure out what one player or one position most helps this team is a lost cause because there is no one thing that turns the Bills into a good football team. The Bills are destined to fail next year.  Let's just accept that and ignore what's best for next year.  Let's decide that going 3-13 next year is pretty much the same thing as going 7-9.  The Bills need to start thinking three years ahead with their needs.  It's not what the Bills need most to win next sunday.  It's what the Bills need most to start competing for Super Bowls in a few years.  Obviously, that's a QB.  No position makes the impact that a QB does.  The significance of a QB blows other positions out of the water.  There is no logical reason to draft a position other than a QB except there simply not being one good enough to take with the first overall pick (or if winning next year is somehow more important than the long term future of the franchise).

Quarterbacks need development time. 3-4 DEs don't choke in the playoffs and lose games on their own.  QBs do.  Roethlisberger and Brady may have walked into the league and started winning Super Bowls.  For most players, going from terrible rookie to solid 2nd-3rd year player to playoff caliber QB to guy who can actually win playoff games is a process.  Let's start that process ASATAQWCT (As Soon As There's a Quarterback Worth Committing To).  Doesn't it make sense to put a QB at the center of the rebuild?  Doesn't picturing the other 52 guys on the roster changing one offseason at a time and growing into a great team at the same rate and time that a young QB grows into one of the best in the game just feel right?  That's how I want to rebuild.  Let's shoot for the stars by drafting a QB and building around him, trying to get every part of this team humming at the exact same time and actually winning that Super Bowl that Buffalo deserves.

Kyle Williams' fit and Ryan Fitzpatrick is the number 4 QB?

Kyle Williams gets mentioned as somebody who could transition to DE as Troup gets more PT, but I don't think it will ever happen.  He's at his best fit in this defense right now and he's not even a good fit at NT.  He's just not a player who you can line up across from a blocker and ask him to control that player and cover two gaps.  He'll always be a NT with an adjusted role in this defense.  Hopefully the Williams/Troup timeshare is a long and productive one.  I think it's what is best for this defense.

I also feel the need to make a statistical argument that Fitz's QB rating is a bit of an aberration.  It's all about sample size.  It's no coincidence that 4 of the top 7 rated passers have attempted 105 passes or less (Fitz, Vince Young, Kolb, Vick).  To understand why Fitz's QB rating is unsustainably  high, you need to understand where that number comes from.  It's four equal parts completion %, TDs, INTs and yards per pass attempt.  Fitz's comp % is a solid 61.2%, but that rates him 17th in the NFL amongst qualified passers.  That's not what is making him a top 5 QB.  And considering that he's attempted 85 passes, that number could be pretty different with just a few bad throws.  If just one of his completions had missed the mark, it'd drop him down to 60% even (and he's a career 58% passer).  The next value is yards per pass attempt.  Fitz's ypa is 7.0, a respectable total, but it's 20th in the league and a hair behind Bruce Gradkowski.  Third value is INT rate.  Fitz has only thrown two picks in 85 attempts, barely missing the top 10 in the NFL.  That's a really good stat, but again, it's not why he's in the top 5.  Fitz has thrown a TD per 12 pass attempts this year.  In your typical 500 pass season, it'd be 41 passing TDs.  Obviously, Fitz isn't going to throw 40 TDs this season.  Even if he could 25 in a full 16 games (which would put him one below what Warner, Romo and Big Ben did last year and considerably ahead of guys like McNabb, Ryan, Palmer, Orton and Flacco), then Fitz's QB rating would drop about 15 points.  Hence, the unsustainable QB rating.  I know it's been awhile Bills fans, but bad QBs can throw 7 TDs in over three games.  Alex Smith and Jason Campbell both did it last year and Tyler Thigpen id it with Gailey back in 08.  It's not that I'm trying to call Fitz a bad QB or anything, I just don't buy that we should look at his QB rating and think that another position should be addressed with the first overall pick.

BPA

As adamant as I am about this team drafting a QB first overall, I don't really care what direction they go after that pick.  That's using the same logic as drafting a QB first overall.  Forget what today's needs are and worry about what this team needs in the future.  And that's everything.  They don't need to draft a tackle in the 2nd round or an OLB in the 2nd round because those are our weakest positions.  They need to draft the best players they can that fill a long term hole.  If that's a sliding cornerback and Florence left in FA, then I'm fine with that.  If that's Kyle Rudolph, the TE, in the 2nd round, then let's go that direction.  I'm far more worried about what players this team selects than the positions they select.  They can get by with crap stop gap players.  They're going to be bad regardless of who they draft.  Gotta think long term.

Sorry, but I've got to address CJ Spiller in here.  I can't go and say that Buffalo should draft BPA in the 2nd round, but then be on record as hating the Spiller pick.  I don't think that Spiller was BPA.  So, it's hard for me to sit back and accept that the Bills drafted the best player available when I thought Derrick Morgan was better.  And when I thought the OTs were comparable.  People make it seem like Nix's decision was to draft some consensus, no-brainer BPA or make some terrible reach for a need position. That's a twisting of what actually happened in order to rationalize the pick.  The example I keep using is what a poll of this site would have said about who the BPA was heading into the draft vs. what a poll would have said after the Bills had taken Spiller.  Does anybody really believe that if there had been a poll on this site a few days before the draft asking who the best player was out of Spiller, Morgan, Davis and Bulaga that Spiller would have easily won?  And yet, if we had done that same poll the day after Buffalo selected Spiller, wouldn't the results be a run away victory for Spiller as BPA?  If in some alternate universe the Bills had selected Derrick Morgan and done the same poll the day after the draft, wouldn't Morgan have won in similar run away fashion with the fan base saying that he was the BPA?

Chris Johnson, Felix Jones, Jahvid Best, DeAngelo Williams, all late first round prospects and similar runners.  Was Spiller really such a better prospect than them?  There hasn't been any type of dropoff in Clemson's ground game going from Spiller to a likely late first round or 2nd round prospect in Andre Ellington.  I think it's clear that Buddy Nix's hands weren't tied when they took Spiller.  This is the guy they wanted to draft.  They had options, they chose Spiller.

Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.

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Alright I'm gonna disagree with you on the whole 3-4 DE thing.

You say well as of draft day would a guy like Dareus be that big of an upgrade over Stroud. And I’ll agree absolutely not. However thats kind of short sighted IMO. Maybe he’s not a huge upgrade day 1. But what about a season down the road , or 2 seasons? If you draft a Dareus first, you’ve built a young D line that has the chance to be dominant. With Edwards,Troup,Dareus,and Carrington. Look you can find OLB’s in FA, heck you can find every position in FA, except for dominant 3-4 D lineman. Those you have to trade for 99 percent of the time. So when you have the chance IMO you have to hop on them.

Disclaimer: AJ Green is my dream first round pick.

The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun

by mob16151 on Oct 24, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

heck you can find every position in FA, except for dominant 3-4 D lineman

You can make an argument that the 2nd best 3-4 DE in the NFL is Justin Smith, former FA. Chris Canty and Igor Olshansky are a couple other guys who have recently changed teams. Maybe you can’t find dominant 3-4 DEs in FA because there really aren’t any in the entire league because it’s simply not that impactful of a position. If there’s really a position where you can’t find an FA, it’s quarterback.

My point on comparing Dareus to Stroud isn’t specifically about those players. Say we’re talking about drafting the early 2000s version of Richard Seymour. And let’s take Stroud’s name out of it and I’ll ask is Richard Seymour so much of an upgrade over [insert name of averge 3-4 DE] that he’s worth making him one of the highest paid players in the league and worth drafting over a different position, like QB? Wouldn’t you rather go out and get a Dwan Edwards type at DE and swing for the fences hoping to get an elite QB than vice versa with some David Garrard type QB and an elite 3-4 DE? I honestly think that drafting a 3-4 DE with the first overall pick is like drafting a guard in the top 7-8 picks because he could be a part of a dominant unit. There just isn’t enough value there for me to consider a 3-4 DE an option and I hope the Bills feel the same way.

When I say that DE should be plan C or D, it’s because AJ Green is plan B. I think he’s the pick if Buffalo doesn’t like the QBs.

SFC: Were you excited about Clausen dropping to the Bills pick? Or did you have a feeling that the Bills wouldn’t pick him anyway?
Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.

by kaisertown on Oct 24, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drafting a 3-4 DE isn't just about sacks.

The run contain is huge, especially when your LBs cant manage to do it. Judging a 3-4 DE solely base on sacks is a mistaken philosophy.

IMO, the run support provided by a top tier DE would justify going for one early.

by NordicBillsfan on Oct 25, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

When I say that DE should be plan C or D, it’s because AJ Green is plan B. I think he’s the pick if Buffalo doesn’t like the QBs.

Not one of the CB’s, Peterson or Amukamara?

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Oct 25, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

AJ Green is so far off my map at this point. Aren’t our receivers proving this year that where you get drafted means nothing? Drafting a receiver high is useless IMO unless said receiver is the last piece of your puzzle. We have so many other needs that drafting a receiver (unless of course the other choices are just plain awful) seems ridiculous to me. I’m all for picking BPA, but in my mind, WR and RB are the last positions to draft high. You can get useful, and even impact RBs and WRs in the late rounds and even un-drafted.

Fear the Grier!!!!

by willgarr15 on Oct 25, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

GREAT read. One of the best I’ve read in a while.

Im over pop corn..... But i still like me a little Spiller Thriller!!!!!!!!!!

by OC-BILLS-FAN on Oct 24, 2010 11:39 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

If Locker or Luck aren't available when we pick, I think a 5 technique guy would be just fine

As long as he’s the BPA, I’m all for him. It really is tough to tell what sort of strategy we should follow, as without a CBA this draft pool will likely look considerably different than with one (and we also don’t know where we’ll pick yet…1st and 5th will likely have lots of different scenarios)

by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 24, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I take value into consideration when considering BPA. IE: A kicker will never be the best player in the draft. Even if a kicker was going to walk into the league and be the best kicker in history, he wouldn’t be BPA until the 3rdish round. With that same logic, I don’t think a 3-4 DE could be BPA unless the draft completely lacked elite options at other positions. Marcel Dareus could be the best 3-4 DE in the league in 5 years and not be as impactful of a player as AJ Green as the 8th best WR or Jake Locker as the 10th best QB. That’s my argument in terms of the Richard Seymour sack impact is that a 3-4 DE prospect would have to be once in a generation (or maybe better) for him to actually be the BPA in the draft.

SFC: Were you excited about Clausen dropping to the Bills pick? Or did you have a feeling that the Bills wouldn’t pick him anyway?
Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.

by kaisertown on Oct 24, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

3-4 DE's can certainly be top 5 pick type players, it just depends on the system being run and the player.

The NFL’s all time sack leader spent the vast majority of his career as a 3-4 DE. Reggie White also spent his Philedelphia years playing primarily the 3-4. John Abraham was fairly succesful with the position in the time he spent in a 3-4 with the Jets (they eventually switched to 4-3 while he was there). There is certainly room for a 3-4 to play both a rush end and a run stopping end, espescially if we can find a pass rushing compliment at OLB like Bennett or Paup were for the Bills in the Bruce days as well as a pair of middle linebackers that can actually take on a blocker if they need to.

I think 3-4 ends are unfairly stereotypes today because of a lack of production in the past decade, but for the majority of the last two decades the 4-3 was run by the majority of the league as their primary defense. The 3-4 has only recently started to come back into fashion after the success of the Steelers, Ravens, and Pats, meaning the majority of the guys that could be dominant 3-4 ends were playing in a 4-3 for the majority of their career. For a good portion of the 90’s, the only teams to run the 3-4 were the Bills, Jets, and Steelers. The modern 3-4 regained prominence when smart GM’s realized that they had a scheme that employed guys who couldn’t succeed in the 4-3, and therefore were going to fall in the draft.

Regardless of the evolution of the system though, the 3-4 DE plays just as vital a role as the 3-4 DT. If the player is good enough to draw 2 blockers on nearly every play, he provides a mismatch in favor of the defense every snap he’s out there. If a team combines that with a DT that does the same, the defense becomes nearly unbeatable against the run. Those guys are just as rare as a good 4-3 DE, As they make the 3-4 OLB’s look like better players than they actually are. They just generally do it without the gaudy sack numbers. If Marcel Dareus can become a player that draws either a double team nearly every down or forces the tight end or fullback to help on him, he’s far more valuable to me than an elite WR. Top WR’s are available as free agents every year, and 2 or 3 more are likely available via trade at any given time. Guys that can occupy 2 OL just aren’t.

by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 24, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

This team first and foremost needs an identity..........

I dont care what position they play………This team needs a leader.

"Oh man, moral victories and pulling confidence from losses, that's crap" -Marcus Stroud

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 24, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree, I just don’t think a 3-4 DE can come in and give this team an identity. Like I said with Richard Seymour being arguably the best five technique over the last decade. If the Bills defense were to add him, is that really a leader and identity that this defense lacks?

SFC: Were you excited about Clausen dropping to the Bills pick? Or did you have a feeling that the Bills wouldn’t pick him anyway?
Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.

by kaisertown on Oct 24, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain. WE want to winn every year -- abayarde

by VanScottM on Oct 24, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

This team first and foremost needs an identity.......... I dont care what position they play………This team needs a leader.

Well put. Im hoping Luck doesn’t wanna wait a year and have to be in the same draft class as guys like Matt Berkely and Cam Newton. I wouldn’t hate having AJ Green tho

by ATF on Oct 24, 2010 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Excellent Post

This post is simply drenched in wisdom and it should be read carefully. I completely agree that getting a franchise QB is the #1 priority IF one is available. The only amendment I would make is that, if Nix and Co. decide after all their scouting that the best QB for the Bills is going can be taken in the second round or later they should be perfectly free to take a pass-rushing OLB (our second greatest need) in round one (perhaps by trading down and getting an extra pick). There is no reason for them to jump on the bandwagon of all the draft gurus and choose a QB just because the likes of Mel Kiper thinks he is great. They should reach their decision on their own (as I’m sure they will do).

by Macktruck on Oct 24, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I completely agree that getting a franchise QB is the #1 priority IF one is available.

thanks Mack. And I hope it came across that I was trying to hammer that “if” home as well. I’m OK with people not wanting Locker or whoever, but not wanting a QB because they think a different position is a bigger need is where I’ll endlessly debate the point.

SFC: Were you excited about Clausen dropping to the Bills pick? Or did you have a feeling that the Bills wouldn’t pick him anyway?
Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.

by kaisertown on Oct 24, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post kaiser

I agree with most of it.

The 1st pick of the draft absolutely has to be a QB unless Luck doesn’t come out and they don’t like Locker at all. It’s the biggest need on a team full of big time needs. For this team to be competing for playoff spots and maybe Super Bowls in the next 5 years, a top QB is what will help take them there.

I don’t know if I totally agree with you on the 3-4 DE, because a stud at that position will absolutely help this defense in all phases. I wouldn’t take one in the top 3 or top 5, but I can see the draw if that player is an unquestioned future stud. I don’t know enough about the 3-4 DE’s yet to make any kind of comparison or determine if I feel they’re top 5 prospects, but I would be looking elsewhere at this point. I’d take a stud WR before a stud 3-4 DE. As of right now, I think we have a few options if we end up with the top pick. Luck, Locker and AJ Green. I don’t see any OT worthy of that pick, unfortunately. There’s no OLB worth drafting #1. There’s only a few positions that should be the top pick each year…QB and LT, and perhaps WR, 4-3 DE and that might be it.

I agree that I don’t think Spiller was the BPA. I think Best was the better available all-around RB anyhow. I thought Anthony Davis was a better prospect, as were a few other guys. I guess I understand why he was picked, I just don’t agree with it.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 24, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t know if I totally agree with you on the 3-4 DE, because a stud at that position will absolutely help this defense in all phases. I wouldn’t take one in the top 3 or top 5

That’s actually my point. I’m talking specifically about the Bills ended up with the first or 2nd pick. If we’re picking 5th, then it’s a totally different story and I’d consider a 3-4 DE then. I just can’t imagine giving that paycheck and that investment to a DE as the first overall pick this year. Even as early as the 3rd pick, I’d view a guy like Marcel Dareus as a legit option.

SFC: Were you excited about Clausen dropping to the Bills pick? Or did you have a feeling that the Bills wouldn’t pick him anyway?
Galliford: Both, like when that hot chick waves at someone she knows standing behind you.

by kaisertown on Oct 24, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The first half of todays game sort-of ruins your Fitzpatrick piece

by Winnie33 on Oct 24, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

No it doesn't

He’s not any kind of long term solution

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 24, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, could he start a season maybe two while a new guy learns the ropes? Absolutely. Then we have some trade bait if he is still playing well and we have a young guy. Good teams don’t run out of options at QB. We should start developing the next guy now.

by greysquirrel on Oct 24, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

He’s a solid backup on a good team, or a starter on a bad one.

by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 24, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well done...rec'd
Does anybody really believe that if there had been a poll on this site a few days before the draft asking who the best player was out of Spiller, Morgan, Davis and Bulaga that Spiller would have easily won?

Spiller MAY have been the BPA, but need has to play some part in the draft process. Nobody actually drafts 100% BPA. If anyone short of Adrian Peterson was the BPA in the coming draft, I would hope the Bills would pass on him for a QB, LT, or OLB.

"The Bills keep Dutch Ovening me and I can’t get out from under the covers" – Kurupt

The NIx plan - "We've got to dig our way out"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VjPNKc0VsU

by Joe P. on Oct 25, 2010 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

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