Buffalo's quarterback acquisition options
by Ron From NM on Feb 12, 2010 8:30 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
197 comments
This post started out as my guess as to how the Buffalo Bills' offense would be addressed this off-season. Then I realized that the only semi-interesting part was the section on quarterbacks. Buffalo has several options as to how to deal with the QB position this off-season.
Buffalo can choose to stick it out with Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brian Brohm. Good old status quo. They can acquire a QB off waivers. They can also try to acquire a QB via a trade. The NFL Draft always provides tantalizing options. Free agency is always a tempting method. They could even address the position with a combination of those methods. Each option has upsides and downsides, which brings us, of course, to the crux of this post.
Option 1: Status Quo
Buffalo could roll with the three players on the roster. This has the obvious positive of refraining from burning draft picks that could be used on the other areas of pressing need. The Bills currently have the psychologically traumatized Edwards, certified second stringer Fitzgerald and a sphinx in the once highly touted Brohm. None of them have inspired much in the way of confidence, but new head coach Chan Gailey has a history of turning below-average quarterbacks into guys who don't kill their teams. Gailey and Buddy Nix - henceforth referred to as 'Chix' - might well decide that Edwards can be salvaged, that Fitzpatrick can hold the fort, or that Brohm can step up.
Working against that thought, of course, is that the QB position is where new regimes make their most visible stamp. Perhaps more to the point, none of the three have proven to be franchise players. Additionally, Chan's comments at Thursday's press conference (as reported by ESPN's AFC East Blog) couldn't have warmed the hearts of the three guys already on the roster:
"You have to have a quality player there. It does not have to be a big-name player. You just have to have quality production. That's the decision you're trying to make."
If Chan felt he had 'quality production' at the QB position, my guess is that he probably would have named the guy.
Option 2: Waiver Wire
Buffalo could acquire a QB off of the waiver wires, though I can't imagine who would be both waived and an upgrade for the Bills. This seems like the least likely of the available options.
Option 3: Trade Block
Buffalo could acquire a QB via trade. The only way that the Bills can swing a trade would be to include draft picks in the deal. I just can't see Chix parting with draft picks when the team is in full-on rebuilding mode - particularly on the defensive side of the ball. The Bills don't really have any players to offer in exchange for a QB in lieu of picks. Marshawn Lynch (one stupid move away from a long suspension), Roscoe Parrish (certain to be cut) and Chris Kelsay just aren't going to draw significant interest. This option doesn't seem any more likely than the waiver wire option. I, by the way, might be reading a bit too much into this quote from the same AFC East Blog posting:
Gailey also acknowledged rumors the Bills are interested in trading for a veteran quarterback.
Acknowledging that rumors exist about Buffalo being interested in a veteran quarterback isn't the same thing as Gailey confirming that, yes, Buffalo wants to add a veteran QB. The smart money, of course, is on Chix adding a veteran QB, but that doesn't mean that the Bills will part with much-needed draft picks to get one.
Option 4: NFL Draft
Buffalo could acquire a QB in the draft. This would allow Chix to have 'their guy' at QB, which has an obvious appeal. It does, however, hamstring Buffalo's ability to address the other huge needs in the early rounds.
Option 5: Free Agency
The weak free agent class won't inspire much confidence. Chad Pennington is easily the most appealing option, but I don't see Chix going for an average-armed QB coming off of his umpteenth shoulder injury. I think we'll leave it at that.
Breaking down the options
It's only a hunch, but I don't think that Chix will hitch their wagon to any QB on the roster. I can't see Chix giving up draft picks to get a QB in trade. The Bills could draft a QB in the first or second round with the intention of giving him the keys to the car right out of the gate, but with the offensive line still in flux, I just don't see Chix using a high draft pick on a guy who will be given the Carr Treatment. The only remaining option is to swing a trade for a QB... but by using draft position instead of outright draft picks. There are several possible veteran quarterbacks on the radar, and here is the breakdown of the picks those teams have in the first four rounds in no particular order. (Those numbers aren't set in stone, as compensatory selections have yet to be handed out.)
Philadelphia (Michael Vick and, much less likely, Donovan McNabb): 24, 56, 71, 120, 125
Miami (Tyler Thigpen): 12, 43, 74, 108
Washington (Jason Campbell): 4, 37, 101
Jacksonville (David Garrard): 11, 76, 107
Buffalo could swap 41 for 56 with Philly for Vick. It's the equivalent of a late third-round pick. While I don't want Vick, I can see the appeal for Philly in that their one-year experiment with Vick gets them, basically, a third-round pick. McNabb - again, highly unlikely he gets dealt - would obviously cost more. If Buffalo swapped 9 for 24, Philly would effectively net a late first-rounder. Swapping 9 and 41 for 24 and 71 would get the Eagles the equivalent of a late first and early third. I wouldn't do it if I were Andy Reid, but if Philly's set to start Kevin Kolb, it's at least not an outlandish idea. If McNabb were traded, it would have to happen well before the draft to get the deal (trade and contract) finalized. A Vick trade would also likely happen before the draft to smooth over McNabb's ego as well as to give Buffalo fans time to get used to the idea.
Buffalo could swap 9 for 12 for Thigpen. It's the equivalent of a late third-round pick. Chan has experience with Thigpen, so I could see the draw for Buffalo. However, I see Miami wanting a bit more than a third for Thigpen. If the Thigpen trade happened, I suspect it would be a draft day decision - and entirely due to Miami coveting a guy they thought Buffalo, Denver or Jacksonville would take ahead of them
The perpetually draft-pick-depleted Redskins would likely send Campbell packing for a draft pick or two. I don't see Buffalo doing that, so the best offer on tap would be a swap of 73 for 101. It's the equivalent of a late third-round pick, and that might be enough to get Shanahan to start wheeling and dealing - but only if he has Sam Bradford (or another QB) pegged as his guy at No. 4 overall.
Jack Del Rio has got to be salivating over Rolando McClain. There's a good chance that McClain doesn't make it to Jacksonville but that he is available when the Bills are on the board. The problem is that swapping 9 for 11 is only effectively a late third-rounder. However, the Jags have no second rounder. Buffalo could add a swap of 41 for 76 to the pot, and suddenly the value jumps to a mid second-rounder. I can see the Jags considering it (mainly because Del Rio has been willing to overpay to move up); not so sure about Chix giving up that much position for Garrard.
My guess is that Chan, of these options, would choose to swing a trade for Thigpen (wouldn't happen until draft day), with a pre-draft trade for Campbell being a distant second possibility. As a McNabb fan, my initial reaction to the Philly deal (9 and 41 for 24 and 71) would be sheer delight, but I just don't see it happening - and I'd have to basically not watch the draft considering how crippled the Bills would be. The Vick option is more likely than McNabb, but why would the Bills reportedly call Philly about McNabb and then settle for Vick? That would be like going to the Chevy place looking for a 2SS Camaro and driving off the lot in an Aveo. The price for Garrard would be too high for what Buffalo would get in return. If any of the trades come to fruition, either Edwards or Fitzpatrick get cut (maybe after camp) and the team keeps Brohm as a developmental guy.
To recap, Buffalo (through four rounds of the draft) could end up with:
- Vick + picks 9, 56, 73, 105
- McNabb + picks 24, 71, 73, 105
- Thigpen + picks 12, 41, 73, 105
- Campbell + picks 9, 41, 101, 105
- Garrard + picks 11, 73, 76, 105
Any deal except McNabb would allow Buffalo to take the third or fourth OT off the board in the first round, or trade down and add an early-round pick or two. The McNabb and Garrard deals replace Buffalo's second round pick with an early third-rounder, which would limit Buffalo's options when it comes to finding a quality NT. From a value standpoint, I'd love to see the Thigpen trade happen; the Bills would still get one of the highest rated players on their board at 12 and retain draft position.
3 recs |
197 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
AWESOME article !
and awesome analysis… Rumblings is by far the best site on SB Nation ! GREAT work guys…
BILLS RULE !
by chaosthepitbull on Feb 12, 2010 8:39 AM EST reply actions
I’m not sure that I can wrap my mind around some of the methodology of this piece (which was well-reasoned, as always, Ron).
To me, other needs – which you mentioned most of all in your trade and NFL draft options – should not be given much consideration in acquiring a quarterback. It’s fairly simple: we need the best player we can get at QB. Obviously, you go about doing that without crippling your entire off-season strategy if you can, but that doesn’t dilute the fact that if you’re given the option of solving just one positional issue over the next 3 months, you choose to fix the problem at QB. It is crystal clear that it’s our most pressing need.
The trade ideas are solid, though I wouldn’t marry yourself to any of them, because a) I’m not sure Gailey would be interested in any of those guys other than McNabb, and b) ‘Chix,’ as you so lovingly dubbed them, might not think a trade is the best way to address the position.
I would not be so quick to write off Chad Pennington, either.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 8:44 AM EST reply actions
QB
The position that remains to be highest priority is, without a doubt, QB. Being the highest profile postion on a team, it is obvious the Bills need an upgrade.
But, what good will that upgrade do if the “new” QB is on his back or running for his life all game long?
The Bills must devote most of their offseason attention to building the O-line. Quality guys to start and quality guys to come in when the eventual injuries happen. With a competent O-line, an average QB will be sufficient.
Thats why, IMO, we already have that QB on the roster. Trent Edwards was an average QB at best and with some protection and time to do what he can do, he will be sufficient. After seeing what Trent can do when he is upright and not hurried 75% of the game, I am not ready to give up on him. I hope Gailey can bring out the guy Bill Walsh thought to be a special QB.
It has been stated before that great QB’s struggled before their O-lines were fortified. Troy Aikman and the Manning brothers come to mind. When they were able to stand up and stay in the pocket, Superbowl victories eventually followed.
The QB is the most important position on the field, hands down, but the O-line is key in getting the QB to that level.
by JTM1023 on Feb 12, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Edwards is not the answer
He cant stay healthy and pretty much got outplayed by his backup last year. Buffalo deserves better than all 3 QBs we have right now.
Anti Edwards
I was pumped up and pro- Edwards at the beginning of last season. This year he showed he is NOT the man we need. His OL was weak, but he seemed to have lost the spark he had after the first game or two. I would love to see the Bills get rid of him. I like Fitz for a backup and don’t know enough about Brohm to judge him. I’m pullin for Lefeavre.
Maybe he would be able to stay healthy if he is allowed to stay on his feet most of the game instead of on his back. Also, Fitzpatrick was behind the make-shift line that towards the end of the year was playing well as a unit after being pieced together all year. They came together as a unit and allowed Fitzpatrick to be average at best. He was also able to escape some of the pressure being more mobile than Trent. I still don’t believe Fitzpatrick was the better QB, just benefitted from the line jelling somewhat at the end of the year.
Agreed
Edwards has talent and there is no doubt in my mind he will be given every chance to compete for the starting job regardless of who they bring in. And yes i would like to see what he could do given solid tackles. It would be interesting to see what he could do having a real offensive coordinator which he has not had yet in Buffalo (Van Pelt does have peomise but needs experience).
Remember
It seemed the team rallied around Fitz when he took over for Trent. I believe Trent has lost the support of his teammates. With that I think he’s all but done in Buffalo.
by buffalobacker on Feb 12, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Brian, great article. But I sincerely hope that Chad Pennington does not end up in Buffalo. We need a QB with a strong arm. Pennington couldn’t throw in the gusty winds at the Meadowlands very well so I don’t see how he would fare any better in Buffalo’s elements.
by GregFromNJ on Feb 12, 2010 5:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not my article :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Great Analysis
And I agree with your conclusion. Bring Thigpen here.
The Missing Link in the Chan Gang
Pennington is the safest bet because you give up nothing and he is still an upgrade… whether you also draft a QB somewhere is irrelevant as the Bills can try to get the rest of the team on track before they draft someone the following year, if necessary. I think Edwards is still the dark horse in this situation… its hard to measure a man’s will to succeed just by press conferences or a BIG letdown of a season where the whole offense was in shambles before the season started. We might have our guy on the roster, but I would still bring in Pennington, or another free agent to push one of the other three out or to the practice squad.
I will admit, that Brohm is intriguing with Gailey supposed ability t develop QBs… whatever may have caused some of his underachievement in Green Bay is irrelevant and perhaps he can gain the strength to make a run at the position… alot of unknowns, and so goes the Bills offseason
Still waiting for the playoffs.... Go Bills 2010 !!!!
by killascript on Feb 12, 2010 8:52 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Too much K-Y!
I’m also on board for Thigpen, he’s my favorite option right now.
Maybe they are trying to tell us Bills fans something...
“Stock up on K-Y now cause when football starts, you’ll need extra!”
Great read to veg out while at work :-)
Looking at all the options that you wrote about I would def go with Thigpen. I would much rather see the Bills keep their draft picks that they have and draft a guy like LeFevour in the later rounds but thats only my opinion.
I def dont think we have our franchise QB on the roster unless Brohm shows he has something besides back-up capability. An OT or McClain would be my first round pick and maybe try and trade back into the 1st round like we did last year to pick up another OL.
Gailey and Buddy Nix – henceforth referred to as ‘Chix’
LOL Why do I see this knickname sticking around for a long, long time.
As for your analysis, I`d actually like to give Trent another shot behind a real line (aka drafting Davis or Bulaga). That is hoewever very unlikely.
I don`t like the waiver option, your not going to get a starter off waivers. I don’t like the draft either. After Bradford and Claussen, theres not much talent to be had. And I don’t think that either of them makes it to us. The free agent rout is appealing, and while I would like to get Pennington, I don’t think that he makes it threw Chix’s strong arm requirement.
So that leaves us the trade route. Personally, I really like the idea of trading for Thigpen. I mean ok fine, he’s not the most aw inspireing QB out there b ut he has been rather succesful in Chan’s system and thats good enough for me. I mean think about it, he played behind a weak line, with not many receiving options otherwise from Gonzalez, but had a good running game toback him up. That sounds like the Bills to me!
So personally I would love to trade back in the first with the Fin’s and get Thigpen as a result. And yes that would be a draft day trade, but its one that I would really like.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 9:05 AM EST reply actions
and Gailey and Nix would make 2 UGLY “Chix”!
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
"Dixie Chicks" they're not
However, I believe they will need to DRAFT their QB of the future in the upcoming draft.
Reasoning: They are in rebuilding mode anyway, so this is the best time to bring in someone to develop behind what we have on the roster right now. (Read: let’s let someone else take the punishment behind the OL while it’s being solidified).
Who knows? Maybe “Chix” will get lucky and find a Tom Brady-type in the 6th round…
And with the 9th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select...Hey, Buddy, you can't select a high school senior!!!
agreed....love the "Chix" nickname.....add in Ralph .... we have The Golden Girls ?
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
i don’t agree with this. Even if we do draft davis or bulaga, let’s not pretend that either of them is going to be a year 1 probowler at LT. Then people start saying, after another awful year from edwards or fitz or brohm, “well davis/bulaga was a rookie and just developing, lets give edwards/fitz/brohm another year behind a now cohesive unit.” And on. and on. and on.
Stop being mired in mediocrity! Edwards has had plenty of time to prove himself, and all he’s done is gone steadily downhill. A guy who is as messed up mentally as he is right now does not just turn it around because of a rookie left tackle.
by quantumuprising on Feb 12, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree that no rookie LT is going to be a pro-bowler for us. And for the record, I’d rather have another starter then Trent. But I think that he deserves a shot at competing for the starting spot in training camp. Unless we bring in a McNabb that is.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
youre missing the point
The only reason to even consider using Edwards/Fitz/Brohm next year is that the Bills have many other absolutely pressing needs. Next year, after going through a draft and plugging some people in, more importantly LT, QB can be THE most important issue where more aggressive moves can be made to spend the first round pick on a more talented class of quarterbacks.
That threesome, and I’m including Brohm, has no long term future in Buffalo aside from maybe a backup role for Fitz. They are nothing more than placeholders in a year where the Bills just dont have enough picks.
by uPitt_BillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Trent shouldn’t receive any more chances. The guy is gun-shy and all he does is check it down and that’s never going to cut it.
There’s no way in hell a guy like Thigpen should cost any more than a late fifth or early sixth rounder.
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Feb 12, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Thigpen + picks 12, 41, 73, 105
This one makes the most sense to me. Familiarity with the head coach. Staying in the top 12. And gets a QB with “upside.” I like the idea of bringing in a young vet rather than a rookie, out of this class anyways. I dont feel like there is a clear cut top 3 QB’s in the draft. So bringing in someone whose already had experience, not only in the NFL but in Gaileys system.
And Brian, did you come up with Chix? Much easier than Chan and Nix lol. Good job if you can up with that one.
"Hey ey ey ey"
Actualy it would be Ron that came up with Chix, as it is his article.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Thigpen...
Of the options presented, I prefer Thigpen. I don’t really know if he’s anything more than what he was in KC 2 years ago – a mobile, turnover-prone but playmaking QB – but he’s young, more accurate that Fitz, could develop under someone who is familiar with his game, and if he pans out, the Bills could rely on him under center for 5-8 years.
Plus, the benefit of staying in the upper slots in the draft gives us a chance to grab McClain, Bulaga, or Davis, so the rebuilding isn’t jeopardized by acquiring Thigpen (at least, in Ron’s scenario).
McNabb, Garrard or some of the other guys likely will only play for a contender. We are SO not that right now. Plus we’ve done the veteran QB on the downside of their career before – Bledsoe lasted a couple years before he couldn’t hack it anymore. I’d rather not go through the one-year high, then back to JP Losman (or whoever) a year later.
That leaves Vick and Pennington as guys who just want to play. I just think CP is a bad investment – arm strength aside, he is older, very injury prone, and immobile, so behind our makeshift line I think he’s highly unlikely to survive the season. Which puts as right back where we are now (Brohm, Edwards, Fitz). Vick is a nice athlete, but not a QB. His gimmick has been figured out, and he’s not quite the athlete he once was when he was winning playoff games in GB. Plus, from his recent interview, it seems as if he still needs some development. I don’t want to be wasting time developing a 30+ year old QB.
So I say go Thigpen if they can, draft a QB next year (as we already have a project in Brohm, so unless we dump him, the Bills don’t need another developmental QB), and stockpile some front 7 talent to make the transition to the 3-4 as bit easier.
by T McGee on Feb 12, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I like the idea of Pennington
Mainly because he knows the Division, and wouldn’t cost us any draft picks. None of the situations are ideal, but I would prefer that we get the best OT, WR, and LB that we can in the draft. I also feel that we might be able to get something for Kelsay. He would be more beneficial to a team than a 6th or 7th round pick – at least with an ability for some immediate return.
Agreed. If we can get a 6th or 7th for Kelsey that would be great. A 3rd and a 5th for Schobel. Because IMO the 3rd and 5th round pick is more valuable to us right now than Schobel. And maybe a 4th for Kyle Williams, who no longer fits in our D. That could be 4 more pick that we could gain, for 3 players that dont really fit into our plans to rebuild and start a 3-4 D.
An extra 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th. That would be awesome…
"Hey ey ey ey"
I go back and forth on trading Lynch. Right now I feel that we need to get as many picks as possible, but I don’t see us getting more than a 5th for him. He still has plenty of talent and should bounce back this year…but I’m not sure if he will get the touches.
by MarinoTheBill on Feb 12, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Im against trading Lynch. Lynch is still very much valuable to this team. You need 2 RB’s in this league.
The other 3 I have no problem with trading for picks. None of them really fit our 3-4 transformation. And I know theyre life long Bills at this points in their career. But trading them helps this team alot more than keeping them on the team. Kelsey and Williams do not have a position if the season were to start today. And Schobels always been a hand on ground player. I dont want to move him to another position, in a new scheme, this late in his career. And a contender in need of a pass rush should bite at him. Williams had an awesome year and could generate interest. And like we said a 6th or 7th out of Kelsey would be great…
"Hey ey ey ey"
also to add
You have to replace talent with TALENT. To jettison every player because they “dont fit” will not improve this team. Have the vet compete with a rookie. Dont trade the vet and hand the job to the best rookie!
Let the offseason begin
You have to replace talent with TALENT
Replace Kelsey with any draft pick is good with me. He doesnt have a position on a 3-4 D.
Why can’t he play DE in a 3-4?
Hes the short, fat, stocky kid. Not really a 3-4 end.
And in regards to Schobel. Hes not going to fit in this team. And honestly I dont want him to move to OLB. Hes not a 3-4 end… So a 3rd and 5th for him would be awesome.
Why not use 4 extra picks to improve our team instead of hanging on to players that dont fit in well? Its not like were on the brink Superbowl 45. We need to be rebuilt. Schobels coming of a 10? sack season. Right nows the best time to trade him.
"Hey ey ey ey"
Do you think we get a 3rd and a 5th for Scobel?
I’m guessing we would just get one pick.
by MarinoTheBill on Feb 12, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Thigpen won't happen
Miami needs a backup for Henne. As big as Henne is, he got dinged a few times in ‘09. Tyler played well filling in. The word down here is that Pat White cannot stand up to the wear and tear a 4 down QB would take. White’s usefulness is strictly wildcat (again by all accounts down here).
To coax Parcell’s to part with Thigpen, would require a premium price. The Bills cannot afford it. We need too much. Hanging onto “Chix’s” pledge to build through the draft flies in the face of that transaction. And, that may be true for any of the deals outlined here.
Further, Pennington has neither the arm or the durability to play in Buffalo.
For me, the sane thing to do is see what’s there draft day, take the BPAs and fill holes. If a QB falls to us, take him. Otherwise, if we are "rebuilding’ (and we are), we would be better off making do with the 3 we have in the short term. They cost us nothing and, with Gailey’s expertise and a better OL, one should step forward enough to be a servicable QB in ’10. Then, in ’11, Locker and Mallett will be there.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
by fansince60 on Feb 12, 2010 9:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is a good point, but isn’t it still conceivable that Pennington stays in Miami? Is there zero chance that Miami would start him next year over Henne? Maybe I’m way off, but I think there is a possibility he stays in Miami.
would you keep Penington with 3 shoulder surgeries or Thigpen, who is young, healthy, and shows some promise? Parcells have proven he’s no dummy. So, I think he’d go with Thigpen, IMHO.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
If i was Parcells and I saw a chance to get guy that I love, say Dez Bryant, and all that I would have to do is part with my backup QB, then I would do it. Like you said, Parcells is no dummy, if he see’s a chance to get a top flight WR, or MLB or DE/OLB that he really loves, then I think he would do it.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Parcells is no dummy
Exaclty. Hes knows what he has in Thigpen. If he can trade his 2nd/3rd string QB to move up and get the player he really wants, Bryant, McClain, or whoever… I think he does it.
"Hey ey ey ey"
well said rec'd
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
What does anyone think of Zac Robinson from OSU?
Should still be available around in the 3rd-4th. I know hes not the Clausen and Bradford name but I think he could end up being pretty decent. From the games I watched of him, he seemed pretty good. Hes mobile. Throws a pretty good deep ball (from what Ive seen, any OK State fans on here?) and he has had a few years starting under his belt.
"Hey ey ey ey"
he looked terrible at the senior bowl. terrible.
by quantumuprising on Feb 12, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Senior Bowl doesnt mean that much to me. Its a different team, system, teammates and you got about a week to get together and learn and play under it. If they play great in the Senior Bowl great, but if not I dont let that game have any negative effect on a player with me, personally.
"Hey ey ey ey"
i don’t think he really looked very good all season either. Completions were way down, yards per were way down, and his td-int was 15-10, which is marginal for a spread qb. he also looked terrible in the last three games he played this season against oklahoma, texas tech, and mississippi.
by quantumuprising on Feb 12, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
yeahh youre right, thats not too great. Just an idea I was throwing out there if were going the draft route. I just dont feel confident in using our first round pick on Clausen of Bradford. Neither do it for me. lol
"Hey ey ey ey"
if bradford doesn’t do it for you, i don’t know why robinson would. Bradford is essential the bigger, stronger, more accurate version of robinson.
by quantumuprising on Feb 12, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Im not saying Robinson does it for me either nessicarily. But I just dont think Clausen or Bradford are #9 overall picks. So I figured I would mention someone who hasnt been brought up for the later round (3rd or later) picks at QB. I think our 1st and 2nd round pick are too valuable to use on one of those 2 QB’s.
"Hey ey ey ey"
Very Solid Reasoning
The swapping picks line of thought is much better than trading picks for players outright.
The UFA period may have a lot to do in determining this…. if we end up with Hampton and/or Clifton as short-term options, then that changes the dynamics.
BTW, to all, it’s snowing in Western Georgia…. people are freaking out. 1-3 inches. Making me chuckle.
people are freaking out. 1-3 inches. Making me chuckle.
LMFAO. I live in Ottawa, we had 3 inches in late Otober. We had 3 feet fall in the first week of January. Those ppl would DIE if they were up here.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Grand total of 4 inches. Everything was shut down today.
It’ll all melt by Tuesday when it’s in the 60’s again.
Man i would hate to see you guys have to deal with the kind of snow that we have. Fox news would claim it to be a sign of the apocalypse.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 13, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Georgia is great…. weather is great. I love Buffalo and love going back home, but I wouldn’t want to live there anymore just because of the snow and cold.
But when it snows here it’s comical.
lol I bet. I love the cold myself, winter is my favorite season.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 13, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Not to go down this road but.......
When do you think Tebow will go?
I think a Vick-Tebow combo deal should be a dark horse plan which i am not a huge fan of but the combo deal seems to make sense to some Rumblers.
We should have all of us pick when Tebow will go(pick wise) and the winner gets the Tebow Trophy? JK
But honestly I wonder…..
Simply out of curiosity.....
as it has taken up some of my time reading the daily posts of my fellow Rumblers…
by MikeEverett08 on Feb 12, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just busting on you
I think he goes in the 4th round.
by MarinoTheBill on Feb 12, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Campbell
I would really like to see Jason Campbell in Buffalo. He has been in the league 5 seasons and he has had good numbers every year. It would allow us to get our OT at the 9th position and a NT in the second round. Maybe along the way we pick up foote or trade lynch and parrish for a pick that would allow us a LB that we need.
by BillsStampede34 on Feb 12, 2010 9:42 AM EST reply actions
Now you have good reasoning
I personally believe that Jason Campbell should also be pursued by this staff. I am not in favor of drafting a QB early either because I just think none of these guys is worth it. New Orleans took a QB that 2 teams no longer wanted(Miami passed & SD let him walk) and look what he turned into. I also want to stop hearing all this banter about trading first rounders for McNabb and &%#@ I am from PA, an hour outside philly went to school there believe me you dont want McNabb or Vick for that matter. The eagles fans have had gripes with McNabb for years and if you actually watch him youll understand why….his accuracy is horrible and hes no longer mobile, I personally dont want to settle for mediocrity and thats what McNabb gets you…possibly to the playoffs, well thats not good enough I want a Lombardi trophy and if NO could do it then damnit so can Buffalo(before were sold & move). So all you western new yorkers clamoring for that washed up end of line QB such as McNabb, Pennington….knock it off they wont do anything for this team or franchise other than be solid for a year maybe make the playoffs and then well be tied to their exorbitant salary for a couple years while the guy wildly underperforms. I have watched a lot of Jason Campbell and he has done well despite having no stability or team around him in washington. He has fallen out of favor of the new regime in washington and could possibly be wriggled away with a player for player swap.
All we are missing is a decent LT send bell to RT hopefully Wood makes it back this year and suddenly you go from having a crap line to a good line all around. I dont believe this offense is very far off….There are loads of talent that was never utilized by the jauron regime which is why he should have been fired a year ago. The whole Owens experiment was a desperate heave to save his job so was the firing of Schonert. Last time I checked we have promising prospects at TE, WR, RB(however drafting someone wouldnt hurt at RB). The defense just needs a NT and LB depth and before you know it we really are not that far off in terms of being a real threat.
One more reason to not draft a QB this year…..there may be a rookie cap after this years draft depending on the CBA….we may be able to get a QB early without having to drop a contract on him like the raiders did with Jamarcus Russell(which I was saying was going to be a total bust, and when the raiders had the chance to let him go they just should have….hes a total rock) and that wont set your franchise back another 6 years. So just some food for thought…….
Good Analysis
I’m not so sure any of these would actually happen. The one reason to trade for a veteran is that you want to bring in tickets sales NOW! Thigpen isn’t going to increase the fan base; nor Pennington, nor Gerard. Only Vick or McNabb have the chance at doing that (especially if we kept Owens for one of them to throw to.) Vick will be heavily pursued by St Louis too. And they would pay way more for him than we would.
Let’s say you are Buddy Nix, you have an old owner who is hot for one last chance at a Super Bowl before he passes on. Only thing is you have way too many holes to fill on a team that possess not a lot of firepower on offense, needs a few new pieces on an OL, and oh by the way your new DC wants to run a defense you don’t have the personnel for.
There is no doubt in my mind that a one year turn around isn’t possible.
The only thing that make sense to me is to trade down from number 9 and get more picks to make this all happen. In the meantime you have to have a QB competition between Brohm and Edwards for who gets the chance to sit behind your recreated OL. My take is that we still haven’t seen the best of Edwards, and is worth a salvage attempt.
The one reason to trade for a veteran is that you want to bring in tickets sales NOW!
PPL really need to stop thinking like this. I mean sure you want ppl in the stands, but when your rebuilding a team in the fashion that the Bills are, filling thee seats is in no way a factor in who you acquire. The only thing that should be taken into account is “is this player going to make our team better.” Thats it. Otherwise your not rebuilding at all.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
We will never have a problem putting people in the stands.
It’s just a matter of how quick the sell outs happen. Ah never maybe a stretch, but there is definately way to much love in WNY to allow attendance to become a problem.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
Tebow/Thigpen!?
Tebow would be a terrible idea unless he drops to the 3rd round. Why do people want Thigpen? Hes not that good! I’d rather take my chances on Bradford or Claussen with the 9th pick.
Spot on Sir!
I too would much prefer Clausen or Bradford, or even Dan LeFevour in the 3rd or 4th Rd. Which if we did go for the latter, would free up 1st & 2nd pick for other pressing matters!
Not bad conceptually
Although I doubt that the pick swapping idea could be relied upon. It seems to me that the trading up/trading down scenarios would probably be dictated on day by the fall of the draft. For example, maybe McClain or Dan Williams is still on the board and the Dolphins are worried that the Broncos will pick that player up, then I could see this as a very realistic scenario. Frankly I think Thigpen and Vick are the most realistic names on that list. The Dolphins have somewhat reasonable depth at QB (and could even re-sign Pennington), as do the Eagles (not to mention Vick’s signing bonus).
We have to keep in mind that the final eight teams will not be able to participate in FA this year, and may have to go the trade route to fulfill some needs. Unfortunately, I don’t see a great fit amongst that group (unless you’re a fan of the Troy Smith scenario). Maybe one of the Vikings QBs if Favre comes back?
We have to keep in mind that the final eight teams will not be able to participate in FA this year
What? Really?
"Hey ey ey ey"
not quite.
The “Final Eight” rules are in place for the last eight teams in the playoffs. The top four teams (Colts, Jets, Vikings, and Saints) can’t sign an unrestricted free agent unless they lose one of their own.
The four teams that lost in the playoffs (Cowboys, Cardinals, Chargers, and Ravens) can sign one unrestricted free agent with an estimated first year salary of at least $5.5 million. They can also sign an unrestricted free agent with estimated first year salary of $3.7 million or less.
by quantumuprising on Feb 12, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
all assuming, of course, that the CBA goes down the pooper.
by quantumuprising on Feb 12, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
thank you. I didnt not know that. How longs that been going on? Buffalo hasnt been in “that 8” in a long time, so please forgive me for not knowing that rule :-p
"Hey ey ey ey"
It’s only for this season, because its the final year of the CBA. There are always rules about the last year of a CBA, which is why we have this final Eight rule and the uncapped season, etc.
by quantumuprising on Feb 12, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Pennington
I just don’t get the interest in him. Yeah, he’s been very good. But, he cannot afford to get hit. And we’re going to protect him from his next injury?
Get Thigpen.
The Missing Link in the Chan Gang
This is the only way I pass on Rolando McClain.
I mean the only way. First he would have to be available come #9 on draft day. Second, Miami does lack badly at WR, so there would be the interest in Dez Bryant for the dolphins. I do have a concern which I will try to include.
Miami get’s Thigpen two days after Pennington goes down, for a conditional draft pick. That pick will fall to #6 or #7. We swap picks with Miami and we are saving about 5-7 million dollars but Miami would have to pay that extra money so we would have to compensate for that money with conditional draft picks of our own.
Chix would have to due alot of posturing on this to set it up. Parcells will be all over this, he knows what he has in Thigpen on the market. Will the dolphins be willing to swap picks. Gailey knows what he would be getting with Thigpen as well, What would they be willing to give up before it becomes outrageous. Worst case, IMO swap 1st round picks, add a sixth rounder and the Dolphins only gain four spots in the first round, if our sixth rounder is compareable to their compensation pick. We might have to throw in another sixth round pick next year.
The thing I am concerned with regarding Thigpen is Chad Henne. The dolphins must think that Chad Henne is their answer going forward. I personally don’t think he is, I think defenses will read him like a book next season thus thwarting this idea. With Thigpen and Henne entering training camp together, I can see Thigpen coming out on top. If anything happens the posturing would have to begin now and end by mid April. We can’t afford draft picks this year but maybe we can afford one mid to late round next year. Persue Thigpen by swapping 1st round picks with the dolphins, draft a OT at pick 12, even if it costs us an additional one or two 6th or 7th round picks. Thigpen believes in Gailey and Gailey believes in Thigpen. That in itselft is a huge start, and at the same time we will see if Fitzpatrick is worthy of the fight.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
Thigpen
What did Miami give up to get Thigpen? I thought it was a 6th rounder. What did Thigpen do last year to make himself worth possibly “more” than a 3rd round equivalent. Here’s hoping that four names I don’t see behind center next September are: Edwards, Fitzpatrick, Vick, and Thigpen.
Aaron Maybin is DeMarcus Ware 2.0.
I think that they gave up a conditional late round pick. Like a 5th rounder or something like that. Basicly less then we would give up for him.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Let's talk about CHIX man!
That would be like going to the Chevy place looking for a 2SS Camero and driving off the lot in an Aveo.
Brian, it is spelled CAMARO, not Camero…however you got Aveo right!
I would be PRO Vick\Thigpen\Campbell. I really don’t think Garrard is an upgrade, and McNabb would cost WAY too much.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Sorry, Ron not Brian.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Why is everyone so enamored with Thigpen?
I dont understand it.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions
I think it’s either his dreamy eyes or his pouty lips.
by syrbillsfan on Feb 12, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Not enamored...
I just think he’s the best option that has been presented thus far. What do you prefer?
Well if Gailey is such a great QB guy, why not see if he can fix whatever Trent's problem is...
and if they want to draft a guy this year then great…if not 2011 is looking like it could be a really good QB class…..
Plus they can spend the time this year getting the lines (off/def) shaped up as well…..
But we’ll see.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. But if can move 3 spots back in the draft and get a starting QB thats been succesfull with our coach before, why not? And if he doesn’t work out then we can always draft a QB next year too.
I guess what I’m saying is why can’t we do both?
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt say Thigpen and Gailey were a "success"
they just were less craptastic then other Gailey/QB’s for KC combo……..
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Why not ask him to control the weather while he is at it.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
uh....okay.....
It shouldnt be too much to ask a offensive minded guy like Gailey to see if he can work with a young QB like Edwards……
What does he have to lose?
Edwards is cheap…..and has all the tools needed to be successful…….he just has some mental issues to work on……and its extremely possible that he could be servicable under Gailey…..
Do you doubt that?
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve done that before. The first thing Dick Jauron did when he came to Buffalo is see if he could turn J.P. Losman into a player. We pretty much wasted half of Jauron’s tenure on that experiment.
Just go get your damned quarterback and get going from Day 1.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Right on, Bradford in '10!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Something tells me you feel pretty strongly about that, Brian…
And with the 9th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select...Hey, Buddy, you can't select a high school senior!!!
I’m just not a fan at all of wasting time.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
...funny
I’m just not a fan at all of wasting time.
I seem to remember you supporting the Jauron hire
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
I assume there’s a joke there that I’m not getting. Not sure what you mean by “hire,” either – in 2006, no I didn’t, but I supported the extension he got in ’08.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
wasn't Jauron's entire time in Buffalo a waste of time?
and yes….I meant the extension.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
I suppose you could look at it that way, but the only way you can reach that conclusion is because of the end result.
I had no problem with the extension because I’m of the belief that endlessly cycling through coaches is more of a waste of time than putting a little faith in a guy, because what the hell are you striving for swapping coaches every three years?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
So basically, in short.....Jauron was the best we could do as a HC. I don't want to go down this road....we have been their before
You know the answer and the reason behind it.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
That’s not what I meant, but I’m with you on ending the conversation here.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
even if there isnt someone who they are in love with?
Just go get a guy to get one?
That makes no sense to me………….when come 2011 there will be many better options available…….and chances are pretty good the Bills will be picking near the top of the 2011 draft.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Well obviously, if you hate everybody that’s available, that’s a different story. I find that potential outcome incredibly unlikely.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
WOW
Just go get your damned quarterback and get going from Day 1.
I didn’t I ever think of that? Just go get one….easy…..not a problem….kind of like getting gas at the local 7/11.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
I wished it was July 11 already!!
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
I would settle for April at this point......love the draft :-)
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Of course it’s not easy. I’m not saying they HAVE to do it, either. I’m saying that if there’s a guy they like, do it. Don’t hem and haw and say “Well, we could just see what Trent has…”
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
and thats all Im saying......
is they dont have to get a GUY this year…..just to go get one…….unless of course, as you stated, there’s a guy out there that they truly want……then by all means….they should do it.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
This is all my fault. :)
I completely missed this in your original comment:
and if they want to draft a guy this year then great
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 12, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
lol.....
been there…..done that……got the patent pending.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair...
Gailey isn’t Jauron and Edwards isn’t Losman. I like the idea of keeping Trent on the squad for one more year to see if Chan can him realize (some of) his potential. However, I’m not ready to hand Trent (or Ryan or Brian) the starting gig without bringing is some additional (quality) competition to beat out, or lose to. I actually think that a year as 1st or 2nd off the bench would do Trent a world of good.
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
Its the fact that Thigpen did very well in Gailey’s Pistol Offense in KC. Despitenot having a line, or any good receiving options downfeild. They had a good running game and ran a successful offense together. Thats why even though Thigpen is considered a sub-par QB, under Gailey’s sysem is could excell here in Buffalo.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
im agreeing with you again here :) haha
Its not that hes the ideal option for us. Its just he makes sense because of the familiarity with Gailey and the fact that he did produce behind a shitty line. With a rebuilt D, and his ability to put up points. Believe I read Brian saying he put up over 21 a game…
Thats what has me wanting us to go after him. Plus he should be relatively cheap. Cheaper than trading for Vick, Campbell or McNabb for sure. Plus hes still young enough to learn and grow, and this way we dont absolutely have to draft a QB this year.
"Hey ey ey ey"
I hate to disagree with you....
but as a KC fan, the success of that pistol offense was not on thigpens shoulders IMO. He is woefully inaccurate, and will make too high throws when he gets amped up in the most inopportune times that likely result in INT’s….he did it miami this year too when he got his shots.
The success of that offense hinged on nobody having an answer for Tony G. It was spread it out and see if they can cover tony. Every single time there was pressure placed on thigpen, either from his main options being covered or from an oline safety valve, if tony couldn’t bail him out bad things happened. I would argue that without tony, Thigpens numbers drop severely of the course of that season.
I guess if you are looking for a one year stopgap, the pistol spread was mildly entertaining that year, and it did put up some numers, but if you are looking to build a long term winner IMO you are wasting you time with thigpen, because he cannot be accurate enough to excel in a real pro style offense, and to me thats just fact. The only reason it was run in KC that year was because we had no other options, and that was the only thing we could do to win now, because Thigpen didn’t have the skillset necessary to run the normal offense.
Why hamstring your entire offenses development in a pro style offense to run a gimmick that will never take you deep into the playoffs? Its a lost year, because at some point you are going to have to start someone with enough talent to carry the team deep into the playoffs if you want a winner, either a veteran now, or a rookie now. The lumps come with a rookie or inexperienced qb no matter what you do, so you might as well take em as the rest of the offense develops IMO.
Thigpen was given every chance to succeed last year in a pro style offense. Preseason reps, everything, in fact I think the administration wanted him to beat out Croyle so they could trade him……but it worked out the other way. He was just horrendous under center, and without that Tony Gonzales safety valve……..he was just an athletic inaccurate qb.
by Zimmy on Feb 12, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
thanks for your insight.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
A few thoughts
If we would bring in Thigpen he wouldn’t be in a pro-style offense, he’d most likely be in the Pistol that Gailey ran in KC. And while Nelson isn’t Gonzo, in the right system he could be VERY good.
As for the long term answer at QB, I never said that Thigpen would be that. I just think that he could be a one year stop gap guy until we draft a franchise QB in 2011 (as i don’t think that there will be any available to us this year). If he works out then great, pleasant surprise for once. If he doesn’t, no biggy, we’re in total rebuild mode anyways.
Might as well give a guy a shot, if it works, great, if it doesn’t then we end up in a position to draft Mallette or Locker nextyear. Either way we are basicly in the same position. Thats why i think it’s worth a try. We don’t have much to lose.
Thanks for the insight though, it is very appreciated.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
You make good points....
But my only concern with that approach, is you are in rebuild yes….but from a team who has been in rebuild now for 3 years…..you want to be out of rebuild asap….and I know you guys know this. To me this draft is stacked because of juniors trying to cash in before the rookie wage scale gets put in place…..the talent is there this year, not next year. If you are in the market for a qb the time is now.
My point being, is if you are getting Thigpen just to run the pistol for a year and try to put up some wins, but know dang good he can’t take you deep…..whats the point? Its just a wasted year, why not get a promising rookie now and get him started gaining experience, even if not in a starting role you have some mediocre qb’s now to sit behnd and learn for a season.
I guess its my same argument with our QB situation right now in KC. I think we need another promising rookie, because if Cassel doesn’t work out…..we have an entire team ready to roll in 2 years (pending on how well we draft) and no qb to roll with it. Croyle has alot talent but has proven he can’t stay healthy. I love him has a backup option, but not so much as a starter.
Its not that I don’t think Thigpen can be a good player in the right situations, or even a really good situational weapon…..its just that I have witnessed over and over his inability to win games with his arm when it counts….its just not there. You want that qb who when you are at your own 2 facing the 2 minute drill….you aren’t scared every time he drops back to pass….you want the opposing team to be scared when he drops back. Thigpen will never be that guy.
If you are in the market for a qb the time is now.
See thats where I totally disagree. Otherwise from Claussen and Bradford there is not a singleQB that can be described as a franchise QB in this draft. Therest all hold the “Project” tag in my eyes. I think your confusing quantity of QB’s with quality. As for the rebuilding, you never rebuild in a single season, it’s just not going to happen. I’m realistic in that, and thats whyi don’t mind waiting another season before we draft a true franchise QB.
And you may very well be right that Thigpen will never be that guy. But there are only 3 “that guys”out there this year (McNabb, Claussen and Brafford) and realisticly we don’t have a shot at any of them. And since I’m a realist and that Iknow that even in the best scenario we probably wont be a competitive team next year, I’m willing a accept a one year stop gap guy at QB, like Thigpen, Vick or Pennington.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Thats fair enough....I am by no means an expert on qb talent in this draft
But if Thigpen does well at all, and wins you some games, lets say 6-10 or 7-9….what makes you think you are going to have a shot at “that guy” next year? 8-8 is completely within the realm of the pistol offense and thigpen.
The realistic thing here is only the top 5 in every draft have a chance at the guys considered franchase quarterbacks…..you are going to have to either suck that bad (and trust me you don’t wanna go there), trade up, or draft a project qb and get to work, or a free agent. The longer you wait to draft that project qb, the longer it takes to see if he is good or not, and if he is not, well then you start the process all over again.
I just wouldn’t want to waste any time on a guy you know isn’t going to be in the answer….but if thats what you want power to you.
Just playing devils advocate :D
Thats why I love having pioli as our gm. Whether or not you like Cassell…..the man knew what he wanted and went and grabbed it, and wrapped it up with a long term deal. Its either gonna be genius or flop……and i wish he would hedge his bets a little with a project qb. But we know our direction no matter what at this point.
The realistic thing here is only the top 5
Again, i disagree. I give you Joe Flacco.
Besides no matter who we have at QB next year, our real problem wont be our O, we’re only 2 peices away from having a good one. Ok two BIG peices in the QB and LT, but still only 2 peices. Our D will be the real thing that holds us back. I think that we will be picking in the top 10 or 12 next year, and in a class where there are 3 good options at QB in the draft, then we have a good shot at a franchise QB. But in a class like this year that only has two good options, we’re screwed.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well we can agree to disagree then.....
But I can almost guarantee, if you go down the Thigpen road…….there aint a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
That said, if you guys were to take a chance on him I hope he proves me wrong….I like the kid as a person…..I just don’t think he has what it takes.
I think that we can both agree on that. Thers no pot of gold with Thigpen. I know that he’s not “the guy” but to me he’s a guy thats worth taking a shot with.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
And we are agrueing the best option here, even though we are throwing names into the mix. Let’s address those two needs, two big needs in one round if possible. Can we agree that we can get a very good OT at #12 and Thigpen. Then focus on LB, NT etc from round two on. It kind of satisfies alot of priorties except for the opinion of the names.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
by VanScottM on Feb 12, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With the progress that Gailey and Thigpen had together.
Including the fact that Gailey was let loose preseason in KC for philosophical differences, I would think that Gailey would want another season with Thigpen. With Gailey’s storied offensive experience, it is possible that he seen something that he liked. Considering Miami jumped on him two days after Pennington went down confirms that the kid does offer something. Those facts are hard to ignore if the price is right, regardless of who doesn’t want to see who under center next year. I am just not sure how much Parcells would be willing to let him go for. We could potentially resolve alot of our offensive problems in round 1 in this draft under this scenrio, then switch to the defensive side of the ball and concentrate on formulating our 3-4 defense. This makes the most sense out of all the options considering the state of our franchise.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
I don't like the idea of trading within the division
Even if Thigpen could be had, it doesn’t benefit the team to be taking away from their own draft pick stockpile and adding to a division rival’s pile. That’s why I don’t like this option, first and foremost. Plus, I think they could draft someone just as good as Thigpen without benefitting another team.
It’s said that you build through the draft. Doesn’t it make sense to do that at your most important position?
And with the 9th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select...Hey, Buddy, you can't select a high school senior!!!
That is the only arguement I would shy from.
I agree, but that would mean one of the other clowns that could cost more. I agree that there are risks involved with dealing with a division rival. That is where the right price comes ito play. I wouldn’t give Parcells to much advantage here, I would walk and keep what we have first.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
I don’t like the idea of trading within the division
BINGO! And equally important is the fact that Thigpen was drafted in the 7th round. Miami traded a 5th for him. Why, would we give multiple picks at all, let alone to a divisional rival?
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
If we could get it done by swaping 1st rounders I say do it.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
I know I am on a "THIGPEN IS NOT THE ANSWER" rampage here......
But what makes you think Gailey particularly liked Thigpen? He had to scrap his entire offense that he had used up to that point and come up with the pistol because Thigpen couldn’t hack it in the current offense, he couldn’t make the reads or the throws, so it had to be spread out and dumbed down.
Just sayin, they won one game together, and yeah thats not all the offenses fault, it was good enough to maybe win 3 or 4 of those games….but I have to think gailey has his sights set higher than 8-8 for the long term, and I don’t think thigpen and the pistol can get you much farther than that.
I've been reading every word.
The fact you been there proves very valuable. It is understandable that Gailey would have to alther his offense or dumb it up when he is working with his third string QB. We did that this year with Edwards. Your points about inaccuracy, not making the reads etc…. these are all to be expected problems with a Third string QB that was just drafted in 2007 in the seventh round. You provide very valuable insight on this guy, but why would the dolphins jump so quickly for him. To me he is someone worth working with for a year or two in a system that he can excell at. I do give Parcells to much credit sometimes, but he was definately on someone’s radar.
We have alot of areas to address, swapping picks with the dolphins and gaining Thigpen even an additional 6th rounder this year or next is worth considering.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
You also have to remember.....
The two guys who made the trade are father in law….son in law. Also Miami likes to run the wildcat sets…and I truly think thats why they brought him there, because he is about perfect for a wildcat or option style offense, a situational weapon if you will. I don’t think it was to drive the big tuna’s ship.
Why would an accomplished gm like Pioli let the guy go for a 5th if he thought he could be a value to his team running a pro set complicated offense?
Enjoy talking with you guys……
Your not suggesting collusion here, I hope.
I would never accuse Parcells, Pioli or Bellicheck of such a thing, lol. I understand your point. I am not sure how to respond to this other than Pioli did come with his franchise QB and a huge contract. He has something to build on and a fifth rounder is a decent price. I can’t believe I still appreciate your points even though they contradict many of ours, mainly mine. Do you sense desperation here in Buffalo. Once again we are only persuing available options.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
Yeah I do sense the desparation.....
Its like your fighting to not become the chiefs of the last couple years. Its a dark place to be in….thankfully I think we have the leadership to be headed the right way. Its a long road though, still full of questions marks.
If you are hoping for thigpen as a stopgap, I guess you could do worse….still think you can do better though. My only concern is you get your franchise left tackle, then use thigpen and a gimmick offense, I just feel you stunt the growth of an offense as a whole that way. I know it didn’t do us any favors running the pistol….but I guess at that point Chan and Edwards were fighting for their lives and what other choice did they have but try to salvage anything they could. In the long run, I think it set us back…….if nothing else than the development of Brandon Albert was delayed, and now there are question marks about him because he struggled a bit this year. If I were in your shoes, I would get whatever quarterback that could best run the offense Chan is going to install for the long haul, and I just don’t see thigpen being that option, he maybe the best overall option for next year, but there should be more foresight to it than that. Thats the same reason that we let Chan go this year, and why he shouldn’t have been retained in the first place, why waste time in a system you are not going to use in the future, it hurt like hell to change systems 2 weeks before the system to a haley weis type system….but I think I speak for everyone that we feel pretty good about it at this point from a chiefs perspective.
"Thigpen is considered a sub-par QB"
Ok I agree with you there. My point is that if Gailey can turn Thigpen into a success, imagine what he can do with Edwards who only shown us average ability so far. There is a lot more there.
Great article Brian!
Great idea to explore pick swaps!
I most definitely do not like the McNabb idea, price would be too high for a temporary solution, plus I am not certain that McNabb would be able to change from the West Coast system that easily. I suspect that Cleveland will be very agressive to aquire McNabb and will probably overpay for his services.
I really like the Campbell swap idea. I’d send them one of our two guys in the process (Edwards or Fitz) to sweeten the pot. They would need another vet backup in the mix anyways.
Not sure that I’d like to give Miami a crack at McClain or Bryant… And I definitely prefer Campbell over Thigpen any day of the week!
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Make sure you thank Ron too.
And with the 9th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select...Hey, Buddy, you can't select a high school senior!!!
I said it yesterday…
If McNabb is traded, he’d fit in REALLY well out west with the 49ers.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: AFI - End Transmission
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 12, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Nonsense
I too don’t get the sudden infatuation with Pigpen—-Why would the Bills give up a 3rd for a back-up QB who was traded for a 5th? He is another Fitz a decent back-up QB. It’s the “Grass looks greener on the other side Syndrome”!! I’m sure Tuna would jump at the chance to get a 3rd for him whether it’s in his own division or not. He’ll just sign Edwards or Fitz if one of them get cut as Henne’s back-up…
'To get something you never had,
you have to do something you never did.'
Hey....
If you guys are serious about wanting thigpen….I would invite your leadership get ahold of Joel or Chris from Arrowhead Pride…..we have been through this argument 100 times at the beginning of last year over on AP…and honestly it would be fun hashing it out all over again. There are staunch supporters on both sides of the aisle between “he is the answer” or “he is below average….”
Could help us all get through this slow time to put some discussion in it.
BTW this is one of the best run blogs on SBNation…….besides good ole Arrowhead Pride that is!
I am waiting for "K"
He has a unique way soliciting facts and great arguements. Arguements, I tend to shy from due to my inability to web search and articulate thoughts. He tends to say the most in less words.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
Ron Rec'd
I too was confused at first, thought Brian initiated. Some how that explains alot.
This is like dumping a new puzzle from it's box. Now let's start putting the peices together. I guess this is what we all asked for.
Great analysis as usual, Ron.
I really like the thought of Campbell to the Bills. I, for one, think he can play, and does so pretty well. He has a really good arm, and managed decently with that mess of an OL. I’d say they were even worse than the Bills this past year.
I simply like Campbell better as a prospect than I do Thigpen. Thigpen has been linked to Gailey, sure. However, i’d rather Buffalo brought in a player who is more adept at running “traditional” schemes. Thigpen seems to be a spread QB, from what I know of him. That’s fine if the players around him are equipped to play the spread, but many of them are more at home in standard schemes.
Furthermore, if it came to be as you’ve laid out above, they’d still retain that #9 pick, which I think should be most important to them this year.
Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion
"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott
MP3 recommendation of the week: AFI - End Transmission
by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 12, 2010 12:49 PM EST reply actions
Thigpen?
Expounding on your Chevrolet anaolgy-
Giving up a guy like Edaward and trading for Thigpen would be like going to the Chevy dealership to trade your red Aveo in for a new Camaro and leaving with a blue Aveo.
I really do not think Thigpen is a starting QB in this league….
I think you take Pennington in FA and try and take the best available QB in the 2nd or 3rd. Start Chad for two seasons and allow him to groom the rookie, our long-term solution….
Good article Ron
My personal preference of the methods you mention are:
1. Draft a QB in round 1
2. Trade for a QB
3. Free agent
4. Status Quo
I also think that when you say they won’t draft a QB becuase of the Carr effect that doesnt take into account the possibility of Buffalo trading back into the first round to take Clausen at 9 and Bulaga or Campbell later in the round.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Mine are the exact opposite from top to bottom
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
hahahahah really??
Status quo is your top choice?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
for this year, yes
Bradford and Clausen are not my favorite QBs, and that is if we could get one of them. I would rather wait for next year
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
I agree with Joe P. for the most part
although status quo is not my first option
1. Free agent
2. Status Quo
3. Trade for a QB
4. Draft a QB in round 1
The QBs available in Rnd 1 this year stink IMO, compared to those coming out next year.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I would put free agent first, if and only if we don't have to give up valuable draft picks
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
qb
how are the bills gonna trade away picks to get some other treams trash quarterbacks….the bills might as well use the quarterbacks they have already rather then trading away draft picks. they can c=save those draft picks and pick some quality young players for a rebiulding team. Why would they want old quartebacks to come in and start on a rebiulding team. to me the best way is to choose a franchise qb is from the first round draft . look how the jets got mark sanchez, he traded up to get a franchise qb. this is the best for the team now and for the future. get a franchise qb NOT a temperary solution.
yup yup yup!
We’re on the same page Mk! It seems like most fans here are opposed to doing whatever it takes to get a franchise QB in the top ten. I would definitely trade with kansas city for their 5 if it meant getting Clausen or Bradford. Enough of half hearted attempts at quarterbacks – we tried trading for a QB with Bledsoe and Rob Johnson, we tried signing a free agent in Doug Flutie and Kelly Holcomb, we tried drafting a second tier QB in JP Losman, we tried drafting a mid round QB in Trent Edwards.
Lets draft a top QB please!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
but you don't have to draft him this year
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
why keep delaying it?
We have a new regime now is the perfect time. Let him develop while the team develops. Then the QB hits his prime just as the team does.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
why keep delaying it?
A few reasons:
multiple holes to fill -OL, DL, LB
only so many draft picks to do it
better QB choices in ’11 – i.e. Mallett, Locker
All roads lead to ’10 being a bummer, record-wise. We won 6 games in ’09 with a train wreck offense and QBs we have. With improved OL, DL, LBs , we can get through ’10 and be poised to made strides in ’11. IMO – build the house before buying expensive furniture.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
by fansince60 on Feb 12, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what he said :-)
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
you say better QBs in 2011
but in 09 everyone was saying Bradford was going to go number 1 and he was an unbelievable prospect. He goes back for his final year, gets hurt, flags are raised and now hes not a guarantee for number 1 anymore.
Locker was going to be the number 1 guy this year. Then he decides to go back. Come next year Locker could be just as undesirable to you as Bradford is now.
Jevan Snead was supposed to be the greatest QB ever last off-season and now hes a fourth rounder at best.
You can find so many reasons to wait on a franchise QB every year. The team will never get better until we bite the bullet and roll the dice on a top franchise prospect. The sooner the better to me.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
you mean like with JP Losman?
Part of the problem is when you are picking outside where the “elite” prospects are (which Clausen, Bradford are) then you get like what happened with the Bills in which they have to REACH for a JP Losman and then that sets your team back………
So as you say “bite the bullet” and get one……but if you do that then you risk doing something that could set your team back 3-5 years…..
Its better to be sure and go get the guy you want……and not settle or reach for someone.
When we win, I'm so happy I eat a lot. When we lose, I'm so depressed, I eat a lot. When we're rained out, I'm so disappointed I eat a lot. - Tommy Lasorda
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 12, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
correct
which is why I’m adovcating do whatever is necessary to get Clausen or Bradford, including trading with the Chiefs who desperately need a LT. They can get a LT at 9 and get another pick and we can Bradford.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Do not reach for a QB! Please
@Poz
but in 09 everyone was saying Bradford was going to go number 1 and he was an unbelievable prospect. He goes back for his final year, gets hurt, flags are raised and now hes not a guarantee for number 1 anymore.
I understand your point and frustration, but your statement above shows that over time, the more we know about a prospect, the better informed we are. If Locker/Mallet have a horrible years next year, maybe they aren’t the guys to turn to. At some point we need to get ourselves a QB, but we do not need to get anxious and make a mistake. Draft BPA at the top of the draft.
@notanA’sfan
the "elite" prospects are (which Clausen, Bradford are)
Man, I know there is not enough reason to dislike Clausen, but I really do, I just see the “it” factor with him, even less with Bradford. They both seem like sheep to me. I think way too much is made about college QBs, the most over-rated guys in the entire rookie pool. It’s the work ethic and improvement along with the measurements and intangibles that we should be looking for. IMO, out of this years draft, only Clausen has everything we are looking for but he still is not the 9th best player in the draft.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
by the way
Pike is on Jim Rome. Seems like a real guy. I like him.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Clones! Jim Rome annoys me sooooo much...
Pike has some talent…what round is he projected to go? 4th, 5th? I still like Laveaur or whateva his name is a lot more…
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'm only ok with passing on Clausen or Bradford
if we trade for a decent QB and develop someone behind them now. The reason is, you cant expect a young team to grow and develop if they dont feel the team has a direction. How can Gailey and Nix convince our young roster they are serious if we send them into games with Trent Edwards? They will play better and be much more coachable if they believe there is a future. Jimmy Clausen would go a long way towards that.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Poz
what happened with Bradford and Snead just goes to show you how overvalued some QBs get. The fact the Bills didn’t make a mistake with one of them last year is a good thing. Could the same thing happen with next years QB class? Maybe….but maybe they will be the next class of ’83. Patience is a virtue.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
how can you call Bradford a mistake yet?
Maybe people are undervaluing him now? My point is, there are always going to be flaws with top tier talent at the QB position. You just never really know which ones will be great in the NFL. At some point you have to grab one though or we’ll be bad forever. I really don’t think Locker / Mallet is any better than Clausen / Bradford.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
If Bradford would have gone number 1 last year, I think that would have been a mistake
If Bradford ends up being injury prone, putting him behind our O-line last year would have been a horrible mistake. I just wonder if the lack of competition at the QB position in this years draft is giving us beer goggles…..or to put it another way…. Put a 6 in a room full of 2s and she looks like a 10 ;-)
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Rec'd
better QB choices in ’11 – i.e. Mallett, Locker
IMO, If Mallet & Locker were both in this draft, both Clausen and Bradford would fall to mid 1st or even down to early 2nd rd…
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
chad pennigton
chad pennington is just someones trash that they didnt want…. he has been through around to many tEAMS AND I WONDER WHY the jets got rid of him years and years ago….BECAUSE he sucks!!!!!!! he is not a ture starting quarterback . all he is is another journeyman qb because he sucks period. i rather play the quarterbacks the bills have now than to let chad p start on the bills!!!!!! if they do then it will be another sad story for the bills…the same goes out to all the other unwanted quarterbacks in this league… Y take someones trash n make them our starter???? it does not make sense
chad pennington is just someones trash that they didnt want…. he has been through around to many tEAMS AND I WONDER WHY the jets got rid of him years and years ago….BECAUSE he sucks!!!!!!!
He was traded 2 years ago. And is now a FA with a chance of resigning with his second team. Most teams dont think about resigning players who suck. And I don’t know why I’m defending him, because I’m not a fan of his.
Thigpen (logical)...Brohm (sucks) ...Edwards (maybe)...Pennington (kill me now)...
Thigpen makes sense…
All the Brohm lovers need to give up. Typical of Buffalo fans to decide that the guy on the bench will be the best option. The guy sucked in Green Bay, and he is going to suck in Buffalo.
I agree with others that Edwards is a “dark horse” and really I think if protected and under steady, consistent guidance of someone with a mind for Offense he could still do well in this league and be a more than adequate starter for the Bills.
Pennington…just shoot me, please. I can see him trying to time one of his high arcing passes in the Ralph and watching the wind blow it twenty yards behind him.
Fitz…is a great backup, and his numbers prove he not a starter.
Pigpen??
The guy was a marginal NFL player coming out of I-AA Coastal Carolina in 2007, hence his draft position @ 217 by the vikings in the 7th round. Had a good senior year with 3,296 yds 29 tds and 11 interceptions but did start all 4 he was there. Average sized 6’1" 224lbs and mobility is his best trait. The offense in no way resembled a pro-style, he even recorded 346 rushes in his career.
He lost out in the QB competition in Minnesota to Brooks Bollinger, Tavaris Jackson and the vaunted Drew Henson, though he did show “promise” in the preseason. The Chiefs immediately picked him up off waivers to be their 3rd QB.
Only after injuries to starting QBs Damon Huard and Brody Croyle was Thigpen named starter. Had a mildly successful year throwing for 2608 yds 18 tds and 12 int. But only won 1 of 11 games he started. As mentioned the offense was dumbed down to a spread format to account for his (lack of) skills under center. When Larry Johnson returned from injury it was tweaked into a pistol offense.
Eventually traded for an undisclosed (5th round??) pick after Chad Pennington went down for the year. Made his dolphins debut after White and Henne went down leading the dolphins to a TD but ending with 2 consecutive interceptions.
I’m afraid that last bit may sum it up. He’ll excite you with his potential but stab you in the heart with reality.
Don’t see the attraction to this guy. Never seen as a viable starting QB and still isn’t. If it weren’t for the Gailey connection this would stink more like rotten gouda.
Yeah but
If it weren’t for the Gailey connection this would stink more like rotten gouda.
If it weren’t for Gailey, I doubt he would even be on the menu…is he better than Fitz/Edwards/or Brahm. If he is better than one of them, and the price is not prohibitive of course, you should get him if it makes your team better.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 12, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Don't agree with all of your recommendations...
….But that was a GREAT well-written read offering another perspective on trading.
Most of the regular posters on here are better than the “pros” on ESPN, NFL Network, etc.
I love this place.
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Feb 12, 2010 6:02 PM EST reply actions
I mentioned this on another post but
What about Dennis Dixon. He could probably be had for a switch of 2nd round picks, That would be equivelant of giving up a 4th round pick according to http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php. I think Dixon has all of the tools that I think Gailey is looking for with his big arm, athleticism, and as an added bonus, 2 years experience in a class organization. Didn’t we just get there director of pro personel to be our Assistant GM? May actually make some sense.
nooo
BROHM WAS BROUGHT HERE TO BE THE MAN, HE HAS MORE TALENT THAN THIGPEN FEWELL DIDN’T BRING A OFFENCEIVE GUY IN SANDERS WORKED WITH HIM SO, IN MY HO HE WENT TO NIX WHO WENT TO BRANDON ,WE HAVE BROHM AND ALSO GEORGE CORTEZ TO TEACH HIM.
FRANK
Don't type in all caps bro..... I'm old and it hurts my eyes.
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Feb 12, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Good analysis.
However, I don’t like any of the quarterbacks except McNabb. And Philly is not going to give him up.
What about Charlie Whitehurst in Diego? Kid hasn’t played the ever critical 2 game audition where by he blows away media clamoring for the next great QB. Therefore we should get him on the cheap. Presuming of course that he’s any good.
Anyone have an opinion on Whitehurst?
He wasnt too terrible in college......
Big, Strong Arm, not terribly mobile…….decent accuracy from what I remember.
4. Charlie Whitehurst, 6-5, 223, Clemson: Beyond the top three there are some intriguing prospects starting with Charlie Whitehurst. Charlie looked like a potential top prospect early in his career but had a horrible junior year before bouncing back in 2005. Charlie is an old fashioned pocket passer who has the tools to be very good. He needs to work on his decision making skills under pressure and get rid of the ball in a smart manner. He needs to be coached, but has the tools, size, and arm strength to get much better given time.
Official College Site: Player Bio- Charlie Whitehurst — Clemson
What the big boys are saying:
ESPN/Scout: Whitehurst has good overall physical tools and has flashed the potential to possibly emerge as a starting quarterback in the right system at the next level. However, he is entirely too inconsistent and erratic to consider selecting in the first two rounds of the 2006 draft. His lack of athleticism also puts limitations on his playmaking ability. In our opinion, Whitehurst is worth drafting late on Day 1 but no earlier than Round 3
took the above from here
-Buffalo Rumblings resident Chan Gailey basher-
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 13, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Oops
As a lifelong Bills fan exiled in Kansas with season tickets to the Chiefs I can’t help but disagree with the Thigpen option.
He has happy feet. Too quick to leave the pocket without having his feet set because he’s looking for somewhere to run. His poor footwork makes him poor on long out throws because his feet are set incorrectly. His downfield reads are weak as he focuses too much on the primary receiver. In 2008, that was Tony Gonzalez, arguably the greatest TE in the history of the NFL. He would scramble and wait for TG to get open and have him bail him out. While we touch on the 18 TD 12 INT ratio as a positive he also fumbled 6 times. Oh and do I mention he can not take snaps under center? Took all his snaps in shotgun in 2008 and college which means no footwork for NFL.
by FergusonQB12 on Feb 14, 2010 1:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
SB Nation's home for daily Buffalo Bills coverage.
Related FanPosts on Buffalo Rumblings
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
