Pennington headlines potential Bills FA targets
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 10:30 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills News
229 comments
The NFL's free agent signing period begins on March 5 - that's two weeks from today, football fans - and the Buffalo Bills could very well be busy shoppers once that date rolls around. Beginning a massive roster overhaul under the guidance of new GM Buddy Nix and head coach Chan Gailey, the Bills have several need areas and a big-time depth problem that will need to be addressed in some fashion.
We talked earlier this week about how the Bills would likely focus on quantity as opposed to quality this year, as they'll likely look to build a roster rather than add big impact in year one of the re-building project. That said, Buffalo has too many needs to fill them all via the 2010 NFL Draft, so bigger names with starting potential will certainly be discussed over the next several weeks. That's true in particular of the team's major need areas, which include quarterback, offensive tackle and nose tackle.
I've been asked several times - both here as well as via e-mail - to provide a list of free agent targets that might interest the Bills. I've got 41 names for you to peruse after the jump. I'm certain Buffalo won't consider all of those names; I'm also certain they'll target guys not on my list. The goal here isn't to predict the future; rather, to show the type of player the team will pursue in two weeks' time. Don't expect any big names, but there are some quality depth options that could speed the Bills' switch to a 3-4 and help them get more physical across the board.
| Name | Pos. | Team | Age | Exp. | Ht. | Wt. | Comments |
| Chad Pennington | QB | MIA | 34 | 10 | 6'3" | 230 | Veteran, stop-gap starting QB option. |
| Artis Hicks | OT | MIN | 32 | 7 | 6'4" | 320 | Versatile G/T that can play either side. |
| Tony Pashos | OT | SF | 30 | 6 | 6'6" | 325 | Physical, mauling RT option. |
| Barry Sims | OT | SF | 36 | 11 | 6'5" | 300 | Aging, but capable stop-gap at LT. |
| Mark Tauscher | OT | GB | 33 | 10 | 6'3" | 316 | Capable RT. Likely to be retained by GB. |
| Damion McIntosh | OT | SEA | 33 | 10 | 6'4" | 328 | A poor man's Artis Hicks these days. |
| Ephraim Salaam | OT | HOU | 34 | 12 | 6'7" | 302 | More of a swing tackle/depth option. |
| Langston Walker | OT | OAK | 31 | 8 | 6'8" | 366 | Listed for irony's sake. |
| Brandon Gorin | OT | DEN | 32 | 7 | 6'6" | 308 | Pretty much solely a depth option. |
| Bryan Robinson | NT | ARI | 36 | 13 | 6'4" | 304 | One-gap stop-gap NT option for 3-4. |
| Jimmy Kennedy | NT | MIN | 31 | 8 | 6'4" | 320 | Don't see Minnesota letting him go. |
| Kendrick Clancy | NT | NO | 32 | 10 | 6'1" | 305 | NT option, but similar to Kyle Williams. |
| Tully Banta-Cain | OLB | NE | 30 | 7 | 6'2" | 250 | Best of weak pass rush options. |
| Chike Okeafor | OLB | ARI | 34 | 10 | 6'5" | 256 | Aging, but could work well in a platoon. |
| Dwan Edwards | DE | BAL | 29 | 6 | 6'3" | 315 | Likely to command big $ in weak FA year. |
| Justin Bannan | DE | BAL | 31 | 8 | 6'3" | 310 | Baltimore can't sign everyone, right? |
| Nick Eason | DE | PIT | 30 | 6 | 6'3" | 305 | Doug Whaley connection. 3-4 end option. |
| Travis Kirschke | DE | PIT | 36 | 12 | 6'3" | 298 | Whaley connection. 3-4 run stopper. |
| Jarvis Green | DE | NE | 31 | 8 | 6'3" | 285 | Likely to be snapped back up by NE. |
| Alfonso Boone | DE | SD | 34 | 9 | 6'3" | 304 | Not a snug fit in 3-4, but experienced. |
| Larry Foote | ILB | DET | 30 | 8 | 6'1" | 239 | Perfect QB for team moving to 3-4. |
| Ryan Fowler | ILB | NYJ | 28 | 6 | 6'3" | 250 | Thumper with youth and experience. |
| Matt Wilhelm | ILB | SF | 29 | 7 | 6'4" | 245 | Buddy Nix connection. Another thumper. |
| Monty Beisel | ILB | ARI | 32 | 10 | 6'3" | 244 | Plenty of 3-4 experience. |
| Tony Gilbert | ILB | ATL | 31 | 7 | 6'0" | 248 | 4-3 ILB, but enough size to work with. |
| Brandon Manumaleuna | TE | SD | 30 | 9 | 6'2" | 288 | Nix connection. Good blocker; versatile. |
| Casey FitzSimmons | TE | DET | 30 | 7 | 6'4" | 258 | Underrated and anonymous. |
| Sean Ryan | TE | KC | 30 | 6 | 6'5" | 260 | Buffalo native. Big, physical blocker. |
| Ben Hartsock | TE | NYJ | 30 | 6 | 6'4" | 264 | Good #2, run-blocking option. |
| Reggie Kelly | TE | CIN | 33 | 10 | 6'4" | 250 | Coming off a major injury. |
| Will Heller | TE | DET | 29 | 7 | 6'6" | 270 | Young, tough guy to fill #2 role. |
| Anthony Becht | TE | ARI | 33 | 10 | 6'6" | 270 | Solely an in-line blocker these days. |
| Todd Yoder | TE | WAS | 32 | 9 | 6'4" | 253 | Veteran option to, again, block. |
| Willie Parker | RB | PIT | 30 | 6 | 5'10" | 209 | Speed runner with Whaley connection. |
| Aaron Stecker | RB | ATL | 35 | 10 | 5'10" | 213 | Speed runner in event that RB is needed. |
| Kevin Walter | WR | HOU | 29 | 7 | 6'3" | 218 | HOU could look to upgrade. Productive. |
| Nate Burleson | WR | SEA | 29 | 7 | 6'0" | 198 | Productive, but SEA will likely retain. |
| Bobby Wade | WR | KC | 29 | 8 | 5'10" | 186 | Solid production, but best in the slot. |
| Kassim Osgood | WR | SD | 30 | 7 | 6'5" | 220 | Nix connection. Upside might be limited. |
| David Tyree | WR | BAL | 30 | 7 | 6'0" | 206 | Similar to Osgood. Depth option. |
| Mike Furrey | WR | CLE | 33 | 7 | 6'0" | 195 | Once productive, but aging quickly. |
0 recs |
229 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
If we could sign Pennington, Hicks, Larry Foote and Manumaleuna, I would consider it a successful FA for us.
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Feb 19, 2010 10:50 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Those are the biggest names on the list, and they’re all sure to draw interest from multiple teams.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Well, we’d better hope Ralph isn’t cheap, LOL
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Feb 19, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
youngest guy that you listed is 28, and everyone else is older....
I understand that they are all free agents, but I would assume that OBD would be looking for more of a youth movement?
They’re not gonna get it via FA because of the rule changes this year.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2010 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Excellent point, Brian.
YES WE CHAN!
Tweet
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 21, 2010 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
That’s where the quantity over quality thing comes in to play. Buffalo’s plan will likely be to add a lot of players with one and two year contracts. And then you build the core of the roster through the draft while the FAs are stop gaps and depth players. Maybe a year or two from now, if Buffalo starts to look like they are close to competing for the playoffs, they go out and add a younger, long term option with a big contract.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
There won't be any younger free agents available
They’ll need 6 years in the NFL to be an UFA. Not going to find too many guys that fit that this year….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
How much money do the Bills have committed to their players under contract (and assuming draft picks)?
And assuming a similar salary layout this year, how much (roughly) would they have available for free agents?
Good question, I’ve been wondering the same thing. I’d be very interested in seeing some type of cost breakdown.
We don’t need to put a number on it this year. No cap, remember? Obviously, the franchise won’t go nuts and throw money everywhere, but there probably won’t be a specific limit.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
True, but I am still was curious to know roughly where the team is w/ respect to last year. Fortunately for me it’s very easy to look up : )
Ralph will love it this year; it’ll effectively give him an excuse for being cheap. Hey, even look at who he signed for HC….?!
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Feb 19, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
If there's no cap...
that does mean no revenue sharing, right?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 19, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
no they will continue revenue sharing
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
but in terms of after next year………revenue sharing is a major part of the cba disagreement
by quantumuprising on Feb 19, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
i cant’ see it going away – that would undermine the potential success of the NFL
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
yes, but its basically the owners with great league-wide power (jerry jones, dan snyder), against afterthought type owners (ralph wilson). Jones et al want to get rid of revenue sharing, because to be fair, they make a ton of the money.
by quantumuprising on Feb 19, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
well they also make a ton of that money because of the prices they charge.
your 100% right that Jones, Snyder will try to opt out of revenue sharing because it hurts their bottom line (awwww) to an extent.
I think this is where the NFL has to step in. it’s their job to guarantee (or try to) the success of the NFL, not just one team or top performing teams.
jones/snyders would be hurt severely if franchises starting dropping like flies. I think the problem with those guys is they feel like they are not failable (like the big banks) – at some point their arrogance might come back to bite them.
someone needs to reign them back in – that’s the NFL. so I think if the NFL knows what’s good for them – they’ll have revenue sharing for as long as it’s needed for every club to remain fiscally viable
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
but its not needed for every club to remain fiscally viable. for example, without revenue sharing, the next step is for a rich guy to buy the bills when ralph croaks, and move the team to a new city where they will be more viable than buffalo. Trust me, it’s not as cut and dry as you’d think. The nfl works for the owners.
by quantumuprising on Feb 19, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
well I think it’s for the betterment of the league. and it’s not needed for every club.
right now there is between 8-11 teams that need/use the revenue sharing. by taking that income away – you could potentially have many teams that could have issues. could you imagine 3 or 4 teams within the span of 5 or 10 years relocating? are there enough cities in America to even support that kind of turn around?
if it was just 1 or 2 clubs i’d agree – but it’s not
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
The only revenue sharing that was in danger of being cut was the 100M for the 12 lowest-earning teams. It’s enough to sign T.O. for a year but shouldn’t break the proverbial camel’s back.
YES WE CHAN!
Tweet
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 21, 2010 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
why would we want willie parker
he’s a carcass just like LT.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
by JPH on Feb 19, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LaDainian Tomlinson has exactly 2,073 more career touches than Willie Parker. How, exactly, does that put them on equal footing?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
because they're both washed up.
It took LT longer to become washed up, but that’s where they both are now, as far as I’m concerned.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Parker is washed up because he got hurt and Rashard Mendenhall got hot as his replacement?
I think Parker’s got a lot left in the tank.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
my buddy is a steelers fan and says “fast willie” has lost about 2 steps from where he was when he was on top of his game. but that’s subjective as well i guess.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
You never know about injuries. Sometimes they’re just tricky. If the contract were incentive based and short term, I’d be all for it.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 20, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Paker is good only behind a good offensive line...which Pittsburgh didn't have last year
as compared to previous years (not that the Bills line is better).
And?
What RB flourishes behind a crappy line?
by buffalobacker on Feb 20, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Fred Jackson
Not Parker. Parker is a speed back that needs a hole to run through so he can work in open space. Jackson makes his own holes and drags defenders with him.
Bertrand Berry retired – so you can take him off the list.
Bryan Robinson is a good consistent player at NT, I think he would be a good fit for the Bills if they don’t want to put a rookie in right away, he shouldn’t be that expensive because he’s old and isn’t “great”
I would love to see Foote come here, but a lot of teams are going to be looking at him, and he won’t be cheap.
I am not really famalair with the DE so I have no opinion there.
I like Wade, but only if they are going to let Reed walk.
Don’t have an opinion on OT/TE
However, I am still in favor of Pennington…
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
I had completely forgotten that Berry retired – thanks!
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Thumbs up
An excellent info list to digest—-thanks!!!
'To get something you never had,
you have to do something you never did.'
Nice list
There are some good options at WR too. Wade Burleson Osgood and of course SB hero Tyree. they would all compliment Lee Evans pretty nicely and give good options in the slot on short patterns instead of checking it down to the running back every damn play. Jarvis Green is a good DE and hes played in the 3-4 at NE if the pats dont pick him up the bills shoul at least look at him.
Do you think Chad is a high risk pick up tho due to the history of no arm/ shoulder problems? i do.
by gatorempire127 on Feb 19, 2010 11:44 AM EST reply actions
Pennington’s a risk, but I don’t see how he’s a “high” risk. You sign him to a one or two-year deal.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Thats true
And if all else fails he can be a good mentor to the younger QBs and show them how to actually play QB in the NFL.
by gatorempire127 on Feb 19, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say he's a high risk
In that if the bills sign him, they won’t get anyone else, therefore CP could only last a few games and then it’s 2 steps backwards with TE, Fitzy and Brohm
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 19, 2010 10:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My thinking is this: a veteran QB to teach and hold down the fort for a year or two would be fantastic. It absolutely doesn’t preclude the need for a QB. No matter what the current QB situation, unless Brohm takes giant, Grand Canyon-size, strides, there’s no way that the FO can get away with not drafting a franchise type guy in the next 2 years. If Pennington looks like he’s got anything left, I’m fine with that. I just don’t see how getting him or any other vet would prevent drafting a franchise guy.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 20, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
i dont think gettin CP will prevent the bills from drafting a qb
but, brian mentioned a 1 year type deal to minimize the risk, therefore he wouldnt be able to “teach” much of anything in a year. if he does go out, the offense flounders under TE, fitzy or brohm, because im pretty sure throwing a rookie into the bills offense would be the best way to ruin him…get what im sayin? there are better options for the stop-gap qb out there (such as vick) which would hold this team together better….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I just don’t agree. I see where you’re coming from, but I just come to a different conclusion.
brian mentioned a 1 year type deal to minimize the risk, therefore he wouldnt be able to "teach" much of anything in a yearI’m mostly with you there, but I think it depends when we pick the QB up and how ready they are for the NFL when they’re drafted.
im pretty sure throwing a rookie into the bills offense would be the best way to ruin himCompletely with you there. I think the best idea would be to keep your rookie as the 3rd QB, not the 2nd, so if the starter is injured, the rookie still isn’t thrown into the fire.
there are better options for the stop-gap qb out there (such as vick)This is where I have a major disagreement. Pennington, assuming he’s healthy, would step into the starter role. If he’s not completely healthy, he’s not worth even blinking at. Vick, and other FA QBs this year, would have to be in a competition. Every QB on our roster took more snaps and had a better completion % than Vick did last year with arguably fewer weapons. I’m not saying Vick is bad or has no potential, but he hasn’t been a starter in a long time him living up to his potential comes with about as many guarantees as Pennington staying healthy all year. And we wouldn’t need to give up a pick for Pennington. That’s about all I’ve got for you.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
In that if the bills sign him, they won’t get anyone else
What the hell’s the difference if they get Sam Bradford, HE gets hurt, and they go back to TE/RF?!
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
Sam Bradford is just as high a risk b/c of the injuries, but he does have a boat load more upside than chad pennington does, ie. a much bigger arm, potential for getting much better, very good accuracy, hes young, and did show the ability to get out of trouble with his feet in college when possible.
by gatorempire127 on Feb 20, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I don't want Bradford either
But ok. Your point of signing pennington is to be a stop gap qb that can teach… If he gets hurt (which is more likely than not) then it’s a waste and we have to start te, brohm or fitzy, or whoever they draft (which would be an even bigger mistake). If they trade for vick, at least there is a much better chance of vick surviving long enough to groom the future qb and he will be effective enough to be the stop gap qb I think pennington will fail at. That’s the difference!
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 2:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
at least there is a much better chance of vick surviving long enough to groom the future qb and he will be effective enough to be the stop gap qb I think pennington will fail at. That’s the difference
well anybody is subject to injuries – especially a running QB. just because he was durable in the past doesn’t mean he’ll be durable in the future. opposite also applies.
who’s to say that vick learned his lesson anyways? he couldn’t get arrested for something stupid and get suspended?
it’s also of my opinion that Pennington is a better mentor because he’s already done it. vick hasn’t shown that he’s capable of beating any defense with his arm on a consistent basis and even has said himself that he didn’t put the effort in the film room that he should have. so he himself could still be trying to learn the complicated defenses of the league.
if you want to say that Vick is a better option because you think he’s durable then I couldn’t get on board with that because any player in the NFL can be lost for the season at any point. Pennington is a stand up guy – i’d say Vick has shown he’s the complete opposite of a stand up guy.
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 20, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent list, but I’d like to see more QB options than Pennington.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Well, who wouldn’t? But Pennington is the only FA worthy of a starting job.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree. Obviously.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve seen Chad at the Meadowlands many times and you can really see the problems he has throwing in rough conditions.
A few weeks ago I tossed out a few names other than Pennington that the Bills could look at. J2 has listed some of the names, however many of the free agents would not be available in an uncapped year. Even so, there still are a handful of intriguing options. Remember, not worthy of starting and not worthy of starting for the Bills are two different animals.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
What type of offense are you going to run?
I know the plan. Manage the offense, run the ball.. Pennington can do that.
Except that everyone in the stadium knows he’s not going to throw down the field and they will cheat up and choke that running attack. Then you’re not getting 3rd and 3, you’re getting 3rd and 6, and then his effectiveness tanks.
You don’t have to throw it down the field on 3rd down all the time, but you’ve got to force the D to respect the possibility.
Why does everyone seem to think that going deep is the only way to run a successful play-action game?
Yes, the Bills would be a run-first team. No, they wouldn’t complete a lot of long passes. But they’d be more efficient and score more points. So… what’s the problem?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
score some more points
we’re not just talking about throwing bombs. we’re also talking intermediate throws that require zip.
but while we talking about throwing deep… actually going deep and have the ability to go deep are two different things.
if the threat is there you have to respect it. if it’s not there, you don’t have to respect it and it makes it a hell-of-a-lot easier to gameplan against. you’ll see a lot of eight man fronts and you’ll even see single deep.
nobody doubts pennington’s football smarts, and i wouldn’t mind him holding a clipboard. that’s where I leave it with pennington.
another issue. are we designing an offense around penningtons skill-set? why would we do that? there’s stop-gap and then there’s we don’t have any other answer so let’s tread water until we do. pennington is the latter.
by kgun201 on Feb 19, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That Pennington offense was the same one that broke strong armed Chad Henne into the league. Miami wasn’t treading water with Pennington. He’s had success with those smarts and great accuracy before, so why can’t he now?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Miami is not the team to model your offense around
also, everyone in Miami from the Pennington years are gone. I would hardly consider is being a “transition” from Pennington to what they have now.
Wildcat ring a bell?
You completely lost me with that post.
Miami is not the team to model your offense around
Why? They lack WR options, but scheme-wise, they look like they’re on the way towards being a good offense.
also, everyone in Miami from the Pennington years are gone
Jake Long and Vernon Carey are still the starting tackles. 2008 additions, Donald Thomas and Justin Smiley, are the starters at guard. The receiving leaders in 2008 were Ginn, Camarillo, Bess and Fasano. They finished 4, 2, 1 and 5 in yards last year. Obviously, Henne was developed during the Pennington rebuild. Ronnie Brown isn’t going anywhere. I’m sure they’ll make more changes this year, but the offense has hardly changed since they made all those moves before the 2008 season.
Wildcat ring a bell?
What does the wildcat have to do with any of this?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
wild cat because hes saying the dolphins success came from it
not pennington. which i think can be debated. honestly pennington did benefit the most from the wild cat taking the nfl by storm that year…but also pennington played really good ball, so maybe it was the combo….i dont know either way.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Y’all realize the Dolphins got maybe 8% of their offensive yardage from the Wildcat, right?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2010 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
but how many tds did they get from it?
it did put points on the board thereby helping pennington….. like i said, im not sure either way, but you have to admit that the wildcat helped him out….even if just a little bit.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
i’m pretty sure that Pennington has shown that he can be successful without the wildcat – that’s a pretty weak argument
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 20, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Miami’s success was helped by the wildcat, but Pennington’s individual success had nothing to do with the wildcat. In 2008, Pennington had the 2nd highest QB rating in the league and he accomplished that without gimmicky schemes.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I think
the type of throw I miss the most from the Kelly era is the intermediate routes that Reed use to break for TD’s.
by The Irishman on Feb 19, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
But that was a result of Kelly and Reed. We don’t have Reed. You’re trying to compare current players with a HOF QB and a borderline HOF WR. That’s what the Bills need to do, go out and get more HOF caliber players. :-)
YES WE CHAN!
Tweet
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 21, 2010 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
Except that everyone in the stadium knows he’s not going to throw down the field and they will cheat up and choke that running attack. Then you’re not getting 3rd and 3, you’re getting 3rd and 6, and then his effectiveness tanks.
How is that any different from Edwards or Fitz? At least Pennington can do good things on 1st down. And Pennington is much better than Edwards throwing over the middle and I’d bet he throws more 15-25 yard passes than Edwards does. If I were a DC, I’d be more worried about Pennington hitting Nelson down the seam to beat a blitz than I would Edwards.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Well Jake Plummer just came out of retirement and is a UFA at QB. I know that he`s old and hasn`t played in 2 years, but lets be honest, he`d probably stil be better then what we have now. Therefore he`s also worth a look.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 20, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Jake and Brian Griese (if he could be coaxed out of retirement) would be more intriguing stop gap options.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Scratch that, Plummer isn’t comming out of retirement. It was just PFT creating a non story.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 20, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
All they said was he was going to be a FA
You were the one saying he’s coming out of retirement!!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
And I took it back as soon as i realized that he wasn’t comming out of retirement. Notice how I took down my own fanshot too?
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 21, 2010 7:16 AM EST up reply actions
Yes I noticed
but PFT wasn’t creating a non-story in this instance.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
so your saying that I missread the story and created a non-story out of it?
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 21, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, not intentionally though of course....
There was nothing in it suggesting Plummer was even the least bit interested in playing again, or even talking about it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Agreed. I misread it. But then again, why would PFT bring up his name unless he was wanting to come back? I still stand by my claim that PFT created the non story by even putting up their article.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 21, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Brian
I know you’re sold on Pennington, but is he the only FA QB we could grab? Is everyone else under contract?
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
Pos Player Name FA Status Previous Team Current Team
QB Charlie Batch UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
QB Kyle Boller UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
QB Mark Brunell UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent
QB Jason Campbell RFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
QB David Carr UFA New York Giants Free Agent
QB Kellen Clemens RFA New York Jets Free Agent
QB Brodie Croyle RFA Kansas City Chiefs Free Agent
QB Daunte Culpepper UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB A.J. Feeley UFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent
QB Charlie Frye RFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Jeff Garcia UFA (Cut) Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Bruce Gradkowski RFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Rex Grossman UFA Houston Texans Free Agent
QB Matt Gutierrez RFA Kansas City Chiefs Free Agent
QB Gibran Hamdan RFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
QB Tarvaris Jackson RFA Minnesota Vikings Free Agent
QB J.P. Losman UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Eli Manning Re-signed New York Giants New York Giants
QB Josh McCown UFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent
QB Matt Moore RFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent
QB Kyle Orton RFA Denver Broncos Free Agent
QB Chad Pennington UFA Miami Dolphins Free Agent
QB Patrick Ramsey UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB Chris Redman UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
QB Ben Roethlisberger Re-signed Pittsburgh Steelers Pittsburgh Steelers
QB D.J. Shockley Re-signed Atlanta Falcons Atlanta Falcons
QB Troy Smith RFA Baltimore Ravens Free Agent
QB Brian St. Pierre UFA Arizona Cardinals Free Agent
QB Charlie Whitehurst RFA San Diego Chargers Free Agent
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=QB&y=2010
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
there’s at least a few names to take a second look at there i think.
by quantumuprising on Feb 19, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Cinga your fired. ;-)
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 20, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
i would like garcia
more than pennington. just my opinion.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Garcia
hasnt done anything since his playoff run with the Eagles 4 years ago. Pennington has shown recent success. And Penningtons numbers arent as high as most quarterbacks because it isnt necessary due to the success of their running game. He is a great personality to have on your team. He does what he’s asked to do and has all the right things to say about it. I would love to have Pennington on the Bills. I have had to utmost respect for this guy since his Marshall days.
i agree.
there are a few good names here.. MAtt Moore did a great job filling in for Delhomme last season, Rex Grossmans been to a superbowl (and hes a gator) Chris Redman isnt that bad, Neither is Brody Croyle, Kellen Clemens has some potential as well. Thats a pretty good list to look at.
by gatorempire127 on Feb 20, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
A guy like Daunte Culpepper is going to be on the market and though he didn’t exactly put the world on fire with the Lions, I still he has something left in the tank.
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Feb 19, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Would you really feel more comfortable handing your starting QB duties to Daunte Culpepper than Chad Pennington?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, because Pennington is an injury waiting to happen.
"The one commonality in both places (Oakland and Buffalo) is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much. Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft"
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Feb 19, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
isn’t culpepper an injury waiting to happen?
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Hasn`t been injured in 3 years and has seen substantial playing time. Sure it was on teams that suck (Oakland, Detroit) but I think that you put him in a good system and he could still show something.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 20, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Last season, Culpepper missed a week of practice and a preseason game, while he was in a competition with Stafford, with a toe injury and then left a game during the regular season with a pulled hamstring. He missed the end of the 2008 season with a shoulder problem.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
And Culpepper isn't?
Any 30+ year old QB with an injury history, behind a crappy OL is an injury waiting to happen. I’d rather have the guy who’s had more success recently.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
what has culpepper done without Moss?
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely nothing
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
plus – pennington never really had any stars to throw to. i guess coles – but he’s just a good QB who gets everyone involved.
he works the offense – in doing that – he teaches even the young WRs because if they are in the right spot when they are suppose to be they will get the ball. that’s huge
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m actually not “sold” on Pennington. But it’s hard to find a starting quarterback outside of the draft. Obviously there are other free agent quarterbacks, but only Pennington would be a capable starter.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If we draft a QB, is Pennington that much better of a stop-gap/teacher than Fitz or Edwards?
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Uh… yes. Times infinity.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, Pennington may be a better teacher than Fitz/Edwards
But I fail to see how having Pennington behind center while (Bradford/Clausen sits the bench) is that much better than having Fitz/Edwards behind center? What is the difference between 3-13 and 6-10? A worse draft position?
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Chad Pennington can teach a young guy how to prepare, work, and live as a professional QB a hell of a lot better than Trent Edwards or Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Chad Pennington can execute an NFL offense a hell of a lot better than either Trent Edwards or Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Chad Pennington is a far superior leader than Trent Edwards or Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Chad Pennington is capable of making the players around him better. Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick are not.
I could keep going, but I think you get the point. Sometimes, a decision is about so, so much more than record and next year’s draft position.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
My responses:
1.) Chad can teach young QB how to work/prepare hell of alot better.
- Yes, I already said he helps there. Teaching the 1st round QB. But is he “head and shoulders” above NFL vet Fitzpatrick on this? maybe a little. But you don’t have to bring in Pennington to get this, either. That is what quarterback coaches are for. Or, bring in an old vet QB just for this purpose, and make him a full time coach of the Franchise QB.
2.) Chad can execute an offense better than trent/fitz.
- Yes, but again, what will that lead the 2010 version of the Buffalo Bills to? another 2-3 wins? again, what is the difference between 3-13 and 6-10? Not much, in my book. Especially if you aren’t even breaking in your Franchise QB in that sucky season. Then it’s def just a sucky season for no reason.
3.) Chad a far superior leader.
- Yes, but again, where is he leading the 2010 Bills to? another 2-3 wins? Don’t bother, in my opinion. Unless Chad is going to play for 10 more years, mind as well give Trent another year to see if he is the guy that can QB the Bills for 10 more years.
4.) Chad capable of making players around him better, Trent/Fitz is not.
- Question: Did players not get better last year because Trent/Fitz was QB? Was last year a lost season, as far as player development? Is he really going to make this team that much better, just by playing with him? Come on. I don’t see a huge difference. It’s one of those things that is nice to say, and in theory it works, but I don’t see the big deal. If these guys need Chad Freakin Pennington to get better, well then there is something wrong here. They are pro players. They have like 20 coaches. They don’t need a Chad Pennington to get better.
In theory, all this stuff makes sense, but I just don’t see how 1-2 years of Chad Pennington playing instead of Trent or Fitz playing is making the 2012 Buffalo Bills any better.
Who was the QB before Peyton Manning came to Indy? Did it matter? I say no, because once Manning took over, whoever was QB before him is irrelevant. Once we get our Franchise QB, whoever started one or two years before he starts will also be irrelevant.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
: Did players not get better last year because Trent/Fitz was QB? Was last year a lost season, as far as player development? Is he really going to make this team that much better, just by playing with him? Come on.
Yeah, I think so. We all talked about how difficult it was to evaluate a lot of these players because of who was under center. The entire offense was a non-starter because the guy at the center of it couldn’t produce a lick.
Come on. I don’t see a huge difference. It’s one of those things that is nice to say, and in theory it works, but I don’t see the big deal. If these guys need Chad Freakin Pennington to get better, well then there is something wrong here.
It’s not so much playing with Pennington that will make them improve, it’s playing in a real NFL offense, not whatever the hell we had going on last year. You can run a real NFL offense with Pennington under center. Trent and Fitz? Not so much, not without a bigtime supporting cast.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
by JPH on Feb 19, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
if we are going to get a rookie QB then I think Pennington is the way to go. He is up to date on the league because he’s still playing – he has great work ethic and knows how to handle himself on and off the field.
coaches can teach you certain things – but some of the QB coaches have either a) been out of the league for a while or b) never even has been a QB in the NFL.
Pennington can teach a young kind how to act like a professional while introducing him to players that can have the same type of work ethic and morals as Pennington.
Pennington has shown that he is a good mentor and is just one heck of a guy to have a rookie QB learn from. coaches are not with the players as much as other players.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that i’d pony up more dough for Pennington and have him groom a rookie QB rather than Edwards who is completely lost or Fitz who is nothing special whatsoever.
Teaching the 1st round QB. But is he "head and shoulders" above NFL vet Fitzpatrick on this?
I would say that common sense says so. Penningtons played in the NFL for 10 years as opposed to Fitzs 5 years and he’s lead teams to the playoffs – something neither fitzy or edwards has been able to do.
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Similar Situation- T. Owens last year
Brian, in your opinion….having TO on the team last year….is it going to help the 2010 Buffalo Bills?
Did Scuba Steve Johnson and Hardy learn that much from him last year that it more than offsets the playing time these younger guys could have had if he wasn’t in Buffalo?
Did he help our QBs develop, by having him to practice with and throw to in games?
In my opinion, Owens was fun to watch last year and brought excitement and national spotlght to Buffalo last year. But him helping us win games, in the grand scheme of things, was useless….since we didn’t make the playoffs. And I don’t really see him having a lasting impact on the 2010 Buffalo Bills….so I would say, no, TO didn’t do much of anything to help the 2010 Buffalo Bills. He really only made the 2009 Buffalo Bills a little more interesting to watch and discuss. And I’m not sure Chad Pennington even brings that much!
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
From everything we've heard
TO was a great role model for Hardy, and maybe Johnson too. He took the time to work with him and be a sort of mentor…
I wouldn’t call it useless at all
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I think we’ll see the rewards from TO on Hardy/Johnson this season. TO has great work ethic and knowledge of the game – something that cannot be overlooked
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't call the overall experience of having TO here "useless"
I called the impact that he had on the Buffalo Bills wins and losses in 2009 useless.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
You said helping us win in the grand scheme of things was useless
How do you know how his impact will play out for Hardy in the coming years?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
That's 2 different things
TO’s impact on 2009 wins/loss record vs his “teaching” young players how to be good.
I’m saying he obviously was useless to our 2009 wins/loss record, but there is something to say for his “teaching” our young guys.
Now, does the impact of his teaching prove more important than the young guys getting the snaps if TO wasn’t here in the first place? That is what I am asking
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Actually what you said was
I would say, no, TO didn’t do much of anything to help the 2010 Buffalo Bills.
which is exactly what is being argued. hows that Fail taste?
by uPitt_BillsFan on Feb 19, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Terrell Owens’ on-practice-field work habits are impeccable. So are his credentials. I’m 100% certain that James Hardy and Steve Johnson learned a TON working with him for a year.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
yeah he never gets enough credit for this.
the guy comes to work.
...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...
Yes, I know TO's workouts are fantastic and all
But my question was do you think the young WRs are better off going into 2010 having watched TO and learned from him while sitting on the sidelines OR having played the snaps instead of TO?
And how much better off are they for this? If this is truely a strength, then why is Andre Reed, Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, etc not on NFL practice fields every day of traning camp, teaching NFL WRs how to practice more often?
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
It's not TO's fault those guys didn't get any snaps
Blame the coaching for not getting them into games at the expense of Evans and Owens…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It's def not Owens fault.
That’s my point though, because the Bills chose to bring Owens in for one year, at the same time they are also deciding to take snaps away from young, developing players.
Why did we need Owens last year, if we weren’t competing for a playoff spot? (answer: we thought we WERE competing for a playoff spot….if they thought we would have 6 wins, they prob wouldn’t have signed TO, instead giving snaps to our younger players to develop.)
Hence, my argument against Chad Pennington
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I agree they should have played more
I don’t understand how this can be an argument against Pennington though. It’s not like we have a young QB ready to take over (Brohm doesn’t count for me), and it’s highly unlikely we’ll have a rookie QB ready to start from day 1. Hence, it’d be best to let him sit for a little while and take some pointers from Pennington. Pennington gives the Bills a better chance of developing an offense around the QB than a Fitz or Trent could, IMO. I think the young receivers would benefit more from Pennington than either guy we currently have.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Okay, fast forward to Buffalo Bills 2012
The Bills drafted Sam Bradford in 2010 and he sat behind (Trent Edwards/Fitz or Chad Pennington) for two years and he is now ready to be the starting QB.
How much better are the Bills at the start of 2012 if Chad Pennington was QB the past two years, versus Trent Edwards/Fitz?
Are we trying to say that QB prospects have a much better chance to success if they follow a better QB?
Well, give me some examples, then, because I am unconvinced that the QB who the Franchise QB follows has any major impact on how that Franchise QB’s career will play out.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Come on
You know that isn’t quantifiable in any way.
I’d rather have the veteran QB that has more to offer a young QB. Pennington’s experience and success far outweighs anything Edwards and Fitz have done, plus he seems like more of the mentor type anyhow.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Ok, well, not me.
I’d rather give Trent Edwards another shot to see if he can make a “Drew Brees like” turnaround, so we could then have 2 good, young QBs.
I just don’t see the appeal in spending money to get Chad Pennington, so he can come in and lead the Bills to 2-3 more victories, but ultimately still not make the playoffs, but maybe he will be a good mentor. And maybe in that case, Chad’s extra 2-3 wins convince people that “hey, maybe we don’t need a total rebuild….we can do this half-assed again, because we are only 2-3 wins from being a playoff team!” That is my worst case scenario.
Fine, then sign Pennington and have him as 2nd string. That way he can still mentor people (maybe he can mentor Trent) but we can also give Trent another shot at proving he can be that Franchise QB.
Ultimately, even though Trent Edwards has a 5% shot at becoming the guy to lead Buffalo to the 2015 Super Bowl, that’s still better than the 0% chance that Chad Pennington leads Buffalo to the 2015 Super Bowl.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
but maybe he will be a good mentor.
he’s shown he’s a good mentor. Henne raves about him.
people that "hey, maybe we don’t need a total rebuild….we can do this half-assed again, because we are only 2-3 wins from being a playoff team!"
talk about gun shy.
plus – who cares what people think? the only people that matter are the ones making the decisions. it seems far more likely that Nix has a much better handle on things than the previous regime – i’m sure he knows how far this team is and how much talent he needs to get dependent on circumstances such as these.
but we can also give Trent another shot at proving he can be that Franchise QB.
i’m pretty sure that popular theory around here has been to have an open competition. i highly doubt anyone will be given the reigns for the QB position in Buffalo without an open competition.
Ultimately, even though Trent Edwards has a 5% shot at becoming the guy to lead Buffalo to the 2015 Super Bowl, that’s still better than the 0% chance that Chad Pennington leads Buffalo to the 2015 Super Bowl.
if you’re talking about a 5% difference between those 2 guys to go to the super bowl but the opportunity for Pennington to groom a younger guy then why wouldn’ tyou take pennington when he’s shown he’s a good mentor? seems like if they both have either a 0 or 5 % chance of doing anything in Buffalo then why wouldn’t you take the guy that could groom a QB to take us to the Super Bowl as opposed to a guy that won’t throw the ball 15 yds down the field?
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Which is better:
A guy who won’t throw the ball 15 yards down the field (Edwards) or a guy who can’t throw the ball 15 yards down the field (Pennington)!!! haha
Ok, well, I see that I am obviously in the minority in my thinking on this topic.
While I def see some positives to bringing in Chad Pennington, I just don’t see it as a big improvement from what we already have on the roster. Maybe I just think more highly of Edwards than most. Or maybe I just think that the team’s results for the next 2 years are less important than most.
I just hope I was at least clear in the points I was trying to get across. Hope I at least gave others something to think about.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
rec’d for tactfulness
While I def see some positives to bringing in Chad Pennington, I just don’t see it as a big improvement from what we already have on the roster
this is where we differ
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Chad Pennington is two years removed from being one of the most effective QBs in the league. His numbers in 2008 were ridiculous and he did it behind a revamped OL and with guys like Ginn, Camarillo and undrafted rookie, Devone Bess. He can throw the ball 15 yards and he’s a massive improvement. He’s got 80 career starts, 102/64 TD/INT ratio and other good stats.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
So then why in the world would Miami not resign him?
I mean, if Pennington is this good, why is Miami letting him get to Free Agency? Won’t they win more games with him this season than with Henne?
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Because Miami has a franchise quarterback.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Franchise QBs: Henne vs Edwards
After 15 games, this is how Henne and Edwards compare:
Henne:
Record: 7-6 (not including loss to San Diego he didn’t start)
12 tds, 14 Ints, 2,878 yards
Edwards: (same amount of games played as Henne)
Record: 9-4 (not including loss to New England he didn’t start)
11 tds, 10 Ints, 2,560 yards
So if Miami thinks Henne is the Franchise QB, they may want to keep Pennington just in case.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And
who had the better line in front of him? I was the one that said he wished Miami would resign P… (I cannot talk about him anymore) or wish he’d retire or go somehwere else.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
Haha, finally, some help in this argument!
Where have you been, buddy? I pretty much conceeded defeat, but then I was dragged back into it somehow! haha. I could use some backup…I’m running on fumes!
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
It's an uphill fight
most are so used to the Bills sifting through the refuse, that they can’t help themselves. I was looking for something to give up for lent. Talking about you know who seemed an easy one!
But, I’ll be there to fight the good fight.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
better line?
Stroudfans’ arguing Trents first 13 games, so he was playing behind an o-line anchored by pro-bowl LT Peters. Trent’s most recent 14 games, his record is 3-11.
most of my posts get deleted :(
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. DON’T TELL THEM THAT. SHEESH.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Well, they seem to think so, don’t they?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Because they’ve got Chad Henne and you don’t win the Super Bowl with guys like Pennington. He’s too physically limited to beat the best defenses in the league. Pennington is the guy who helps develop the QB that you hope to win the Super Bowl with.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Ok, so let's go with the "They have a Franchise QB" argument
If that is the case, wouldn’t they want to re-sign Chad Pennington to help teach their Franchise QB how to train and how to prepare, ect?
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Pennington has mentored Henne for 2 years now. he’s learned a great deal already.
plus – who says they won’t try to re-sign him?
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
God I hope they do re-sign him! haha
In fact, I think someone in a thread a few days ago said that very same thing….I guess he didn’t want Pennington either, for whatever reasons.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
SFC
Or maybe I just think that the team’s results for the next 2 years are less important than most.
I know watching your team lose drive you crazy like it does me, but I dno’t care about the next 1-2 years, I want a Top 5 pick next year (hopefully there will be a rookie salary cap as well) to select a difference maker. I really dont care if we win more than one game next year (as a fan, I cant say I want my team to go 0-16). I want a stable and long-term contender.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 19, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes. Norcal gets what I'm going for.
At least now I know I have a few in agreement and I’m not just a loon! haha.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
I have a theory:
Maybe people who actually have tickets to the games and have to sit outside in the cold and cheer for the Bills want Pennington because it’s alot more fun when the Bills win (at the stadium especially)?
Whereas, if you don’t have season tickets, you can sit by the tv most games and don’t care as much if they win right now. These are the people more willing to go through the really bad seasons needed to do a real rebuild the right way?
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
"Sometimes, wherever the starting opportunity is, that’s where I want to go," he said. "And sometimes I wake up and go, ‘You know, it’s what’s best for me and my family, and where I enjoy going to work.’
There’s Chad Pennington’s response to that question of whether he would return to Miami.
Miami will try to bring Pennington back, but the price tag will probably be too high considering he’s the only starting quality QB available.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
High on Edwards
Given that our OC was fired days before the season began, our starting LT (Walker) was cut days before the season began, and the now failed experiment of Butler at RT is over, that our starting WR (Owens) played in only one preseason game, isn’t pretty safe to say that Edwards never had a fair shot at being our QB of the future? I’d go with what we saw in 2008 and just forget 2009 ever happened.
Now we have a legitimate OC (sorry, no offense Pill) for him to play for I think things will be better.
Just Saying
Drew Brees’ first good year was his 4th in the NFL. And it’s not like he was red hot at the end of his 3rd year, either.
So there is precedent. Not like it hasn’t been done before…..
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Are we trying to say that QB prospects have a much better chance to success if they follow a better QB?
It’s not just the QB that we’re trying to develop. Who is James Hardy more likely to develop with, Pennington or Fitz? Who is a more reliable QB for a rookie LT to block for, Pennington or Trent Edwards? Is Nelson going to develop an attitude that running a route with timing and purpose will lead to balls being thrown his way with Fitz?
Players will improve in a performing offense much more than they would with whatever last year’s offense was. Does anybody think that a Sidney Rice or Miles Austin is breaking out without a good QB throwing them the ball?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Feb 19, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Once again, I think these things are over-stated
It is on the coaches and especially the players themselves to train as hard as they can and get better.
“Is Nelson going to develop an attitude that running a route with timing and purpose will lead to balls being thrown his way with Fitz?”
He better, he is in the NFL now, his chosen career. If he is not trying as hard as he can on every play, well, then he is only doing himself a disservice.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not about training, it’s about less tangible things. Coaches can’t provide success and confidence. Only achievement can do those things. A guy like Nelson would have a better season with Pennington at QB than with FItz. And a rookie LT would have a better season with Pennington under center than he would with Edwards. For me, that’s why you sign Chad Pennington. It’s about having an efficient offense that players can grow in.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Feb 19, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If he is not trying as hard as he can on every play, well, then he is only doing himself a disservice.
absolutely – but when a guy of Penningtons calibre mentors a guy like Nelson you minimize the risk of that happening.
with Edwards/fitz – they are trying to learn themselves – so they are putting in the time for themselves. as a result – Nelson wouldn’t get as much time with the QB and is on his own. being on his own can lead to becoming lazy or not trying as hard.
with Pennington – he knows how to be productive and brings players along with him. he will be spending more time with guys like Nelson and teaching them – so they have a standard that they have to live up to. as a result – they try harder because they are trying to live up to a standard and know that if they do things right they will get their opportunities. with trent/fitz – you could do everything right and not get the opportunities – which could make a player not try as hard
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Trent was benched because he lost the team. Now we’re supposed to believe he’ll re-emerge as a team leader? Good luck with that, a leader he is not.
most of my posts get deleted :(
agreed
He does’nt even have player support!
by buffalobacker on Feb 20, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
If ands and buts....
Don’t forget how few offensive snaps were actually run by the Bills Offense last year (due to OL injuries, bad QB play, turnovers, what have you). If they were able to string together an extended drive or two in each/most games, there would have been a LOT more plays to go around for some of the younger guys (not to mention saving the Defense so they weren’t so gassed in the the 4th quarter…)
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
by Bogeyman on Feb 19, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I like that point.
Good job. I can def get behind that.
The reason why it’s better to have Chad Pennington (34 year old QB who will not take you to Super Bowl, but will make the team more competitive until your Franchise QB steps in) than Trent Edwards (early 20’s year old QB with potential, but coming off horrible season) is because at least Pennington could extend offensive drives and get the younger, offensive players more plays. More gameday plays equals more good experience.
I can conceed that point.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 19, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
You just nailed my preferred scenario...
Sign Penningtom to a 2-3 year deal to COMPETE for the starting role (no gimmes) but expect him to win the job for the first 1-2 years while Edwards (and Brohm) learn from a seasoned, accomplished veteran, under a new coaching staff (who have been regarded as good for QBs), with a consistent offensive scheme/philosophy. Each new offseason they can re-evaluate to see where they’re at (ie whether they need to target a QB in a future draft as a high first round pick.)
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
based off of this post and the Pennington thread I can figure out that you essentially think there is nothing to gain from learning from veteran players – and I think that’s misguided.
When you look around the league the talent is very comparable from team to team. You see guys with the work ethic and knowledge as the ones who are traditionally successful.
Even my arch nemisis Ray Lewis says he doesn’t play against offenses – he plays against offensive coordinators. In order to know what is happening on the field you have to know how to prepare mentally and physically for it. Throwing someone into a game just to get them experience could have disasterous consequences. Throwing someone into a game after being mentored by a TO or Pennington who knows how to read film, see tendencies and how to work on and off the field will garner more success.
There’s a reason that guys like Brady, Pennington, TO, manning, jordan are better than everyone else – it’s because of their knowledge and work ethic. You think Brady is the most gifted QB talent wise? I dont’ think so – but he’s smart and has good work ethic – somethning that Matt cassel learned from.
If this is truely a strength, then why is Andre Reed, Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, etc not on NFL practice fields every day of traning camp, teaching NFL WRs how to practice more often?
ummm – maybe because they don’t want to. If Frank Reich can coach QBs then any of those guys can teach WRs. Those guys retired for a reason.
I’m not sure what profession you are in – but I can say with all technical/professional jobs that you learn a great deal from people who have been there and doen that.
experience trumps so much in this league – learning from the greats is how you become a great
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 19, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But my question was do you think the young WRs are better off going into 2010 having watched TO and learned from him while sitting on the sidelines OR having played the snaps instead of TO?
Obviously, no. Nothing can replace the value of a physical rep. But that doesn’t mean that Owens’ presence was detrimental; far, far from it.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
actually
Crabtree was learning from Rice last year… and Chris Carter has a sweet network gig. Not sure what Andre Reed is doing but regardless, these guys are 10 years older than TO and not still actively on rosters… its a different story. Starvin Marvin might have been a better example as I would like to see him come on board as a mentor.
You want Marvin Harrison to be a mentor?
Gross
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yeah
Plaxico could of used that advice !
by buffalobacker on Feb 20, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And how to hide it in a bucket of soapy water
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Well then
I’m 100% certain that James Hardy and Steve Johnson learned a TON working with him for a year.
They should be ready to step up this year.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
by Joe P. on Feb 19, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
so what?
pennington can teach this all in a year?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
… yes.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 20, 2010 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
I have my doibts
And what if thy don’t draft a qb this year? Then he just hangs out? Or do you think that te or brohm ae worthy of holding onto to teach?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 2:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or do you think that te or brohm ae worthy of holding onto to teach?
I think they are both worth holding on to. If gailey is as good as advertised with working with a players strength then we could easily see Edwards especially turn around a little bit. I was never impressed with what was going on with the Bills offense while he was running it.
that’s why I like the Gailey hiring so much – we now have 2 guys that are working on offense – as a result that side of the ball should theoretically be better. Edwards is pretty good from 0-20 yards – if a Gailey (and a Pennington if that’s the thought) can help him understand how to anticipate and be more aggressive we might have a decent QB in the short term in Edwards. He’s got to stay healthy and he’s got to stop playing like catholic school girl
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 20, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure about Fitz...
I think he’s pretty maxed out on his potential, but I think Edwards should still be considered more of a student than teacher at this point in his career…
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
Redman
What’s Chris Redman all about? Is he worthy of are consideration? I’ve heard the name but know absolutely nothing about the fella..
The guy has barely played at the NFL level. He’s strictly a backup.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Stats on Redman
I like this idea as I stated in a previous post. His career QB rating is 79.3 which isnt terrible and he did a decent job backing up Ryan when he went down this year. My FA LIST goes as follows with QB’s
1. Pennington
2. Culpepper
3.Redman
4. Clemens
No
interior OL on the list? that’s a little peculiar withe retirement of Butler
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
Oh yeah
anyone know the odds of Antwan Barnes getting a high tender. Because if we signed him and had to give up a 5th that wouldn’t be bad
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 19, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Butler was a tackle. He was going to stay at tackle.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sure...
but that leaves us with what depth on the interior?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 19, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
also...
you don’t like Mike Gandy at RT, maybe?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 19, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
also...
Joey Porter… won’t be cheap but won’t be real expensive, eother.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 19, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Porter won’t come to Buffalo.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Is this an assumption or an ‘I know something, but I can’t say what it is’ statement?
I would find it doubtful, but with Edwards at DC and a potential opening at OLB it doesn’t seem totally out of the realm of possibilities.
It is most definitely an assumption. A reasonably safe assumption, in my view.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Re: depth. With Wood, they’ve got five guys on the interior, including Kirk Chambers. (They’ll tender Incognito.) I’m not ruling out an interior lineman, but I don’t think it’ll be a priority for them. Keep in mind, also, that guys like Hicks and McIntosh on that list have live snaps at guard.
As for Gandy, I don’t think Arizona will let him go, nor do I think Buffalo would be interested in him if they did.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Boooo
what an awful FA crop. Hopefully there will be some quality releases… which is even less likely because don’t need to trim cap space…. doh!
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 19, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
A couple versatile backup types that will be UFAs are Russ Hochstein (Denver and formerly NE), Jeremy Bridges (Arizona, played LT when Gandy got hurt this year) and Maurice Williams (former 2nd round pick who started combined 100 games at T and G for JAX).
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
man that NT list is brutal
all so old and mediocre. Heres hoping the Pats sign Julius Peppers. Then they can’t afford Vince Wilfork and we can have the Bill Cowher type hope we’ll shell out for him only to watch him go to the Dolphins or something…hahah…..its funny because its sad.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
and its true because we stink
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
and we stink because we can't find a quarterback
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
and we cant find a quarterback because...ok i'll stop now haha
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I eat because I'm unhappy
and I’m unhappy because I eat
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Feb 19, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Even if New England doesn’t sign Wilfork, we’d still be competing with Miami and Kansas City.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
So....uh....the youngest guys on the list are 29.....
Just sayin…..
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
Particularly when the lack of a CBA requires a UFA to have 6 years’ accrued experience as opposed to 4.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
ahhh….
Between the CBA and the the lack of quality QBs in the draft, this could possibly be the worst year ever to start rebuilding a team.
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
That’s not necessarily true if you’re a believer, like most, that you get your great players in the draft and fill in your roster cracks via free agency.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
I think that depends entirely on what happens a year from now. If a lot of teams just tender their star players, next offseason could be loaded with talent. If it’s a choice between Buffalo making a big move this offseason or next offseason, I’d rather Buffalo focus on the draft and playing their young guys in year 1 of the rebuild and then try and make a big move next year.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
This off season won't lack changes...
There should be plenty of changes this off season. I would love to see the main focus on both lines and some beef/talent added to tightend position. No big names but hopefully great finds that will be roll players who can step up to the next level. I definitely wouldn’t mind some trades that involve recently mentioned players – Donte and Marshawn are good for trade if they can get value in more draft picks or needed players for the new schemes.
Pennington
If Buffalo went with Chad Pennington as the 2010 starter and ended up with a QB in the top 64 that they’re planning on getting ready for 2011 (or whenver they play NFL football again after this season), I’d be on board. I’m not a fan of Chad Pennington and I’m always leery of QBs with physical limitations who announcers and fans laud for intangibles and W/L records (this isn’t boxing or tennis, people), but Pennington is certainly better than Edwards and Fitzpatrick (two of the worst QBs in the league listed as 1’s or 2’s on a depth chart)…I think I’d rather look at a veteran who hasn’t had extensive playing time yet like Tarvaris Jackson, Matt Moore, or Sage Rosenfels more, but really the important thing is that they start developing a real answer at QB now and not be afraid of striking out…Pennington’s ok for a year; I like Batch a little more, but if it meant the end of Edwards and Fitzpatrick playing in a BIlls’ uniform, count me in.
Aaron Maybin is DeMarcus Ware 2.0.
A very valuable list
What strikes me is that there are some real options at OT, DE and TE. Now that we have lost Butler it seems to me that a veteran OT is imperative. Artis Hicks and Tony Pashos look like the best bets to me, but (I can hear the brickbats coming) if I were Buddy Nix I would look hard at Langston Walker. Two years ago he did a very good job for us at RT, giving up only one sack, I believe, and helping out a lot in run-blocking. Last year he looked terrible in preseason, but he was being asked to play LT in a no-huddle offense. Put him back at RT and he could help out a lot for the next couple of years.
I remain skeptical about bringing in a veteran QB, especially one as fragile and weak-armed as Pennington. If we are not going to trade for Vick or Thigpen, the better bet would be to go with Brohm. After all, he was a high second-round pick and will be in his third year in the NFL. He demonstrated in the Atlanta game that he is poised and has a good arm, and he is clearly smart enough. Why not use the rebuilding year of 2010 to see what he can do? At the same time I would pick up either Jarrett Brown or John Skelton in the mid-rounds of the draft and, if Brohm falters, get the new QB some playing time toward the end of the season. That way you are using 2010 to make some progress, not just holding the line with a vet like Pennington.
I like that we have NT options like that…could make the draft a little easier on us.
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Feb 19, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
oops…meant OT
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Feb 19, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Pashos sounds like our guy
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Feb 19, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
No to Pennington
As we can all agree our OL is going to struggle again this year. Butler gone, Woods coming back from a tough injury, the jury is still out on Levitre and looks like Bell is not
the answer. Richie is our best lineman. But a graying, non mobile and injury pron QB is not the answer. I agree that there is not much out there, but I would rather take a shot at Troy Smith or Vick who have an upside,
Richie Incognito is not our best lineman. The jury may still be out on Andy Levitre, but HE, not Incognito, is our best lineman.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Is Jason Ferguson not on this list because you think it’s unlikely he plays for anybody but Miami?
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
Precisely.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 19, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yoder
I always wanted us to sign Yoder considering our owner looks like Yoda !
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
nothing
i do not see anyone worth signing….maybe just for back up positions…none of these people are worthy starters,except for the OT positions……they are old and over the edge….for chad pennington id rather start trent edwards or fritzpatrick any day over someones trash. hmmm i wonder why the jets released pennington years n years ago….o yeh he sucks! and now people are thinking of him starting for the BILLS? NO WAY!
Why are people flipping out over the suggestion of Pennington? Noone is asking him to
Dude’s been to the playoffs. As Brian mentioned he’s a hard worker, well-respected. He isn’t going to clamor for the starting job if someone else beats him out for it like some vets do when a younger QB passed them on the depth chart. He’ll work with whomever he’s competing with to get the ready to play, but unlike Hamdan, has an actual track record of accomplishments. And he’s won in our division and has the experience facing all the teams we normally play.
Is he coming off injury? Yes, but it’s not like in Year 1 we’re expecting to win it all and need a stud QB. We’re trying to develop a team and an identity. I think he brings more intangibles and leadership to the table than a horribly inconsistent Fitz and a shell shocked Edwards, who never learned from any quality vet how to prepare and play the position.
I was in the anti-Pennington camp but if he comes here I won’t complain.
And most of that remaining list of UFAs at QB are old, over the hill, aren’t the right fit, or in some cases, turnover machines, or locker room cancers that we don’t want here.
Pennington
I have no beef with getting Pennington – I’m all for it in fact ! I just want to see the Bills get a QB – whether it’s Pennington in FA, McNabb (or maybe even Vick) via trade, or Bradford in the draft.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Agreed
Then let training camp decide who’ll start this year, be it Trent, FA, Brohm, Fitz, I don’t care as long as best option is tried.
by buffalobacker on Feb 19, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
What IS a STOP GAP QB?
I keep hearing this phrase being thrown around? What IS a stop-gap QB?
I know what the term “stop-gap” means, but it should never apply to your starting QB. It presumes you can “get-bye” for x amount of time. What is getting bye? You are supposed to be building!
Stop treating these QBs like they are little sissy girls. There professional football players and they get a check too!
I want whoever is behind center to give us a chance to win and help create an offense with AN IDENTITY into which the next QB (which we should draft) should slot into as seemlessly as possible. Or if we get lucky, we put him in from the GET. With intentions!
What skillset – around which – are we molding with Chad Pennington as QB for the Bills in ’10?
I know what the term "stop-gap" means, but it should never apply to your starting QB. It presumes you can "get-bye" for x amount of time. What is getting bye? You are supposed to be building!
In this case, it means that we need someone to come in and run the offense while developmental player X learns the offensive system, learns how to be an NFL player and the face of an organization, and learns how to be a member of the team. The Bengals did it with Jon Kitna when Carson Palmer was drafted. The Dolphins did it with Henne and Pennington. Even Drew Bledsoe kept the seat warm for the out-of-nowhere Tom Brady.
I want whoever is behind center to give us a chance to win and help create an offense with AN IDENTITY into which the next QB (which we should draft) should slot into as seemlessly as possible.
Chad Pennington can’t do that? He can’t establish the “no turnover” mentality?
YES WE CHAN!
Tweet
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 21, 2010 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
My Take...
QB- Sign Pennington or acquire Troy Smith, still need to draft a young QB in the late rounds to groom. Now, I am not saying that this late round rookie QB will be the starter some time down the road, but he could develop into quality backup. Someone with a clean slate that Gailey can work with, just to see how he does with a young QB. I am curious.
WR- Does it really matter until we get our OLine fixed? Let Gailey/Nix look over what we have and decide on how to hande, it doesn’t really matter to me this year. Plus, the WRs available dont thrill me. I want to see dominate run blocking first. Baby steps.
RB- Late round rookies (2 of em in the 5-7 rds) a speed back and a power back.
TE- Sign Sean Ryan, Ben Hartsock, or Will Heller. Bring in a couple of UDFA and keep one.
OT- Sign Hicks please, this would make me very happy. Use #9 on Baluga or trade down if possible, but we need another T that is ready to play.
OG- Bring in more UDFAs for depth or if there is value there take on late in the draft.
DE- Dwan Edwards would be nice, but I think Jarvis Green is the guy we target.
NT- I don’t like any of these guys really, IMO J. Kennedy has the most upside though. I think this need must be addressed in Round 2 if there is a guy that is not too much of a reach. I don’t really care if he is the long term solution or the stop-gap (you like that, don’t you kgun), but we need a big beefy body that can play. I also think that going after Gabe Watson is not a bad way to go if we can get him cheap enough from AZ.
ILB- I like Wilhelm and Fowler. Maybe value in the draft nets us a LB, but we need alot of competition here.
Thoughts?
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 19, 2010 9:29 PM EST reply actions
Ryan Fowler and Dwan Edwards
Are the 2 guy’s I like the most off that list. Maybe give Osgood a look as well.
Am I the only one here that would actually like to bring Langston Walker back to be our RT?
I still think that he could be pretty solid for us, especially since the no-huddle is gone.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 20, 2010 12:07 AM EST reply actions
Oh and Larry Foote should be our top priority.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 20, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
this
foote should be on the top of the list, with an ot a close second. call me crazy but throwing a 1 year deal at peirce that is incentive laden would be a great move to give the bills depth….
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Feb 20, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
Pierce wouldn’t fill the bill for what we need in a 3-4. Again too much like Poz and Mitchell. Not big enough to play on the strong side ILB either.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 20, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
Not a bad idea
Am I the only one here that would actually like to bring Langston Walker back to be our RT?
But unless Bell’s injury is going to prevent him from starting this season, I would rather go with the youth movement at this point.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
SB Nation's home for daily Buffalo Bills coverage.
Related FanPosts on Buffalo Rumblings
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Five unanswered preseason questions
- Preseason Confidential: Forsett and Seahawks still have concerns
- This is why we don't wear huge diamond earrings to practice
- The Shutdown Eleven: The most interesting footballers of 2010. #10: LaDainian Tomlinson
- Reports: Cardinals now want to trade Leinart; Giants interested
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
