2010 NFL Draft well-stocked with 3-4 talent
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 8:00 AM EST
in 2010 NFL Draft
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When the Buffalo Bills hired George Edwards as the team's new defensive coordinator on February 4, it was announced that Edwards would transition the team to a 3-4 defensive alignment. Given Buffalo's alarming lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball, the decision to switch defensive schemes raised some eyebrows - even from folks who supported the move. Buffalo now has a laundry list of needs on both sides of the ball.
It's not a given that the Bills will spend any of their top picks on defenders this coming April; it's still unclear exactly which positional needs the team will target in free agency next month, and given head coach Chan Gailey's offensive background, it's reasonable to assume that the Bills will focus a great deal of their attention on that side of the ball. Thankfully for the Bills and Edwards, this year's draft class is long on talent capable of handling 3-4 roles.
The 2010 NFL Scouting Combine is set to begin tomorrow, so this is a good week (and weekend) to roll out some draft articles. After the jump, you'll find my top ten 3-4 defenders available this year. Please note that the list does not feature any defensive backs - both because the Bills are pretty well stocked in the defensive backfield, and because the biggest differences between 3-4 and 4-3 personnel occur in the front seven.
1. Ndamukong Suh, DE, Nebraska. There's not much to say about Suh that hasn't already been said or seen; he was quite easily the most dominant player in college football last year. He's schematically versatile, meaning that he can play - and play well - in several different defensive schemes, but I think his ideal pro position is as a 3-4 defensive end. He's so disruptive and active that he'll be a nightmare matchup for offenses, in that he'll open things up for pass rushers (as opposed to inside linebackers). He'll be a nightmare at the NFL level, and it'll be a crime against the scouting process if he's not the top overall pick.
2. Rolando McClain, ILB, Alabama. Unlike Suh, McClain is not scheme versatile. He's a very specific type of linebacker, and while he can certainly play in a 3-4, he's most definitely a weak-side defender. He's not a guy that seeks out blockers and intends to destroy them; he'll run around blocks (quite effectively, I might add) and try to pick through the trash before anything else. McClain is going to be an excellent pro linebacker, but he's not a centerpiece; he'll need help to be effective. In Buffalo, he'd make the abilities of Kawika Mitchell and Paul Posluszny immediately redundant, as he's the same type of player (though markedly more talented).
3. Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee. Williams, thanks to an unfortunate photo op from Terrence Cody and a stellar Senior Bowl showing, has quickly asserted himself as the nose tackle of choice this year. Williams had an excellent senior season working with former Tampa Bay defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin, and scouts are not only pleased with the fact that he was a disruptive force, but that he took to pro coaching so seamlessly. He'd underachieved in his first three years at UT, so that will remain a concern heading into April. Williams is capable of playing in a 4-3 or a 3-4, and while a traditional 4-3 role might be his best fit, he's certainly capable of anchoring a 3-4 defense.
4. Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas. This year's crop of pass-rushing outside linebackers isn't top-heavy, but Kindle - coming off of a superb showing in the BCS National Championship game - is a legitimate first-round prospect. A senior season in which he switched from linebacker to defensive end (where he replaced the departed Brian Orakpo) showed that he wasn't of the same class as his predecessor. Nor is Kindle a natural when it comes to rushing the passer. But his athleticism is excellent, his upside is quite good, and he's got experience doing a lot of different things defensively. He has the look of an every-down outside 'backer at the peak of his abilities.
5. Jared Odrick, DE, Penn State. Odrick is without question one of my favorite prospects this year. Nothing about his athletic talents will stand out; Odrick isn't the flashiest prospect out there. The guy just produces. He's tough, physical, and most importantly, disruptive. Odrick has ideal size to play end in the 3-4, though he certainly fits the mold of an interior pass rusher in a 4-3 as well. Odrick reminds me very much of San Diego DE Luis Castillo, a collegiate DT that A.J. Smith - along with Buddy Nix - drafted near the end of the first round. Odrick has that type of ability. (Side note: if Odrick ends up working for Rex Ryan next year... well, I'll be severely disappointed.)
6. Eric Norwood, OLB, South Carolina. Like Odrick, nothing about Norwood athletically stands out. He lacks elite height and weight measureables for a pass rusher, and 3-4 outside linebacker is really the only NFL position at which he projects well. Luckily for him, he's quite good in that role. His upside might be somewhat limited compared to other prospects, but Norwood has the look of an immediate contributor at one of the game's most critical positions. He looks like a perfect Round 2 pick.
7. Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan. I'm not completely sold on Graham as an outside linebacker in a 3-4. As a pure prospect, clearly he's one of the more underrated players in this year's draft class (or, rather, he was until he dominated the Senior Bowl). He's also much more athletic than folks give him credit for, and his production speaks for itself. I just think he projects best as a 4-3 defensive end; pay close attention to his speed numbers this week (if he runs), because if he tests well, his stock will soar further, as 3-4 could nudge him up their boards slightly.
8. Arthur Jones, DE, Syracuse. He's flying under the radar at the moment thanks to a season-ending knee injury, but Arthur Jones is an excellent 3-4 defensive end prospect. He proved he can handle and defeat two blockers at the college level, as he faced constant double- and triple-teams as Syracuse's best defender. He's very stout at the point of attack and can disrupt plays in the backfield. Athletically, he's not overly explosive, nor will he shock and awe with heretofore unseen speed and agility. He's just a really solid, dependable football player with solid upside.
9. Terrence Cody, NT, Alabama. If you're in the market for a guy that will take up two blockers whenever he's on the field, Cody's your man. Right now, unfortunately, that's about all he is. The guy is a monster at the point of attack; he's brutally strong, gives maximum effort on every play, and absolutely cannot be moved by interior offensive linemen. But he's not a penetrator, isn't athletic enough to chase effectively, and, in case you're unaware, has pretty severe weight and conditioning issues. He's limited to the 3-4 schematically, as well.
10. Ricky Sapp, OLB, Clemson. For all you Florida fans out there, yes, I nearly put Brandon Spikes here. I didn't for two reasons: Spikes isn't a great fit in the 3-4 (I think he's a true 4-3 Mike 'backer), and I tend to lean towards pass rushers before I lean towards inside linebackers. Sapp is similar to a guy like Williams in that it's been clear all along that he possessed elite athleticism, but never quite lived up to his potential. That was before Sapp put together a really solid senior season. Athletically, he's one of the best in the draft, and his red flags aren't severe. I think he'll quickly assert himself as a solid young pass rusher in his first year in the league.
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Is Derrick Morgan more of a 4-3 guy? With the Georgia Tech connections I wonder if he is on our draft board.
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Yes. He is an excellent fit for a 4-3.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Norwood
I dont know if I could handle another Norwood!
by Kelly to Reed Touchdown!! on Feb 23, 2010 8:24 AM EST reply actions
No Gerald McCoy?
Maybe he will be there for us, a PASS rusher, a defensive linemen who can penetrate the 1,3,5 slot
He’s not a 3-4 option. Strictly a 4-3 penetrator – and a very, very good one.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Gearld McCoy
I was just wondering why his name wasnt on the list. Is he just a 4-3 tackle?
by Memphisbillsfan on Feb 23, 2010 9:06 AM EST reply actions
Question
is it easier to draft for the 3-4 over the 4-3?
seems like LBs are easier to find because tweener DEs in college can translate to rushing OLB.
outside of NT – seems like 3-4 DEs are easier to find as well….
yes/no?
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
I completely agree with that statement. The only caveat is hat when you convert a player from DE to OLB or DT to DE there is always a learning curve and a certain risk that it doesn’t work. I’m thinking of Vernon Gholston…
So I think in general terms it’s easier to find diamonds in the rough but when choosing a top round selection, it’s probably better not to assume they will convert easily, it makes the pick way more risky. That being said, I expect Maybin to have a breakout year at OLB similar to Orakpo, I think he’s a hard enough worker to make the switch and I think his diminutive size and raw speed and athleticism will translate really well to the OLB position.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Orakpo to Maybin
I hope to the football gods that Maybin is nowhere in the Vernan Gholston discussion as a rush passer. As to Orakpo, if Maybin has even 50-75% of Orakpos production this past season ( Maybin at OLB in 2010 projetion: 40-60 tackles, 5-10 sacks, and some other big plays INT’s, FF’s, & safetys) that would justify the pick somewhat, it would also show his value in the 3-4 defense as a young player. Although, if Maybin has an awful season starting as in no production or impact on games with sacks than it would prove the pick to a bad one early yet again, I hope not. I hope you’re right about Maybin and his transistion to what should be his natural NFL position rush OLB goes smoothly and produces us some sacks. One flaw that only the coaches and Maybin know for him could be his coverage ability in the 3-4 (I understand it’s not as important as in a 4-3) becuase he’ll have to cover some TE’s and RB’s at times. I hope he has a great all around game at OLB as in rushing the passer, playing the run, and coverage ability and is a true star to justify his draft pick (which I vehemently disagreed with but hope I’m wrong). I remember watching the Pro-Bowl and seeing Lamar Woodley have to cover the best TE’s in the game Witten etc. and just having the worst go at it, kinda funny to watch. Obviously, becuase of the Pro-Bowl rules regarding blitzing the QB. In my Opinion even 3-4 rush OLB’s should be able to be an average coverage player taking on TE’s and containing screens from the edge and funnel it to the middle of the field. If Maybin can turn into a good OLB wont that change some immeadiate needs and maybe turn into a playmaker.
BTW Key,
I like your quote or whatever it is between your post and name and info, it’s so true regarding Buffalo. Just do the damn job right for once in the last two decades.
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by SouthBuffaloNDgrad on Feb 24, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
outside of NT – seems like 3-4 DEs are easier to find as well….
Except for the one position hardest to find is the NT. So yeah you might be able to plug some tweeners in and get good results but you need that stud in the middle.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 23, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
is it easier to draft for the 3-4 over the 4-3?
I don’t think Buffalo will be drafting for the 3-4 over. The Cowboys are really the only team in the league that voluntarily run the scheme and even they only do it since stumbling onto Jay Ratliff. Buffalo, like the Cardinals and over 3-4 over teams will draft for a traditional 3-4 and then run the over scheme to compensate for the lack of a starting calibre, true NT.
Personally, I think it’s easier to draft for the 4-3, but that’s a debatable stance. In my opinion, most 3-4 players fit the 4-3 better than 4-3 guys fit the 3-4. NTs fit the 4-3 and so do most 3-4 DEs. But many 4-3 DTs, DEs and LBs don’t fit the 3-4. I think it’s a smaller pool of talent to draft from when running a 3-4. How many elite NFL defenders don’t fit a 4-3 defense? Maybe a few 3-4 OLBs? How many elite 4-3 defenders don’t fit? Most of the top DEs don’t fit and maybe 25-40% of the LBs too?
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by kaisertown on Feb 23, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wouldn't you say that nearly every 4-3 OLB wouldn't fit in the a 3-4?
I’d put that number well over 3/4’s.
Thinking of some of the better 4-3 OLB’s the past few years like Lance Briggs, Derrick Brooks, maybe Julian Peterson, any Tampa-2 LB…none would really fit in the 3-4. Guys who play in a 4-3 but might be better fits in the 3-4 like Brian Cushing, mostly fit in either because of their pass rush ability. The OLB’s from the better 4-3 teams like Philly, Tennessee, the Giants, Minnesota, Chicago, etc have no business playing the position in a 3-4.
I
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
size or speed really has a lot to do with it.
a 4-3 will have smaller quicker linebackers because the line should (should as in don’t use the Bills as your example) be dominant enough in run stopping to allow the OLBs to focus on the edge, and the MLB is trying to shore up the middle in the event the back reaches the second level. in a 4-3 the focus for linebackers is generally with speed to the ball carrier and conversely, with 3-4 the focus is more on shedding block and filling the gap which is obviously easier for a bigger stronger LB. from a pass rush standpoint, there is less space for each guy in the front 7 to cover, allowing more versatile rushing from multiple looks. you do NEED to have shutdown corners as well as a big physical DT though; corners must be able to shore up the outside edge so that the DT can control the point, and in order for you to build your DEs and LBs around him. similar to chess, whoever dominates the middle dominates the “board”; or in the case of football, the field space. as far as tweeners go… we used Bryan Scott as a linebacker. so obviously tweeners apply to both defenses. just that 3-4 usually wants big and strong, and 4-3 wants surefooted, quick (not necessarily fast), and intelligents individuals. that is not to imply 3-4 is dumb players. just less (more limited) responsibilities and focus is more on build. “dead horse” is beaten. i’ll end before it gets any more redundant. you know, with additional redundancy. more than there is now. haha
FS Jairus Byrd aka the Buffalo Bills' Silver Lining
With a good.....
NT in the draft and 2-3 LBs, does the Def need much more.
I agree with depth as it hurt us last year but am I to assume that the front 7 will be slightly above average for a 3-4 scheme.
I would think Poz and Mitchell could handle the middle with Buggs and a Draftee as depth.
Stroud and Williams have good size at DL for run stopping.
Shob and Maybin have to be viable options on the outside.
A little depth in the late rounds after a NT pick and this D seems to be able to hold there own.
What will happen with Kelsey??? OLB or back up DL like Denney?
Buggs has no place on this defense
He shouldn’t even be a camp body.
We need some pass rush ability out of DE. Stroud and Williams aren’t good fits in this scheme either.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Feb 23, 2010 9:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A few names missing from the list
Obviously you have to choose which names you put down because there are a lot…
But what are your thoughts on these guys?
Jerry Hughes (OLB)
Gino Atkins (DE)
Cam Thomas (NT)
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
I’d guess that Hughes is either 11 or very close to it on Brian’s list.
Geno Atkins is as bad of a 3-4 fit as you can find. He’s very short, very explosive and poor against the run. He’s a one gap, 4-3 under tackle.
Couldn’t guess what Brian is thinking on Cam Thomas. People seem to be all over the place on him.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Both Hughes and Thomas narrowly missed the list.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Jason LaCanfora Tweet
Lions shopping the second-overall pick, already in contact with several other teams, Full report upcoming on NFL Network and NFL.com.
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it would take our whole draft to move up to number 2.
if thats what you were thinking.
-Buffalo Rumblings resident Chan Gailey basher-
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
If the Lions are interested in moving out it would cost the Bills their first and probably third and fourth. The draft value chart is so skewed at the top that teams desperate to move out of the heavy guaranteed contracts might take less than ever.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 23, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
oh well I went on true point totals...
which is why I said the whole draft…….
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by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I know what you were doing which is why I tried to explain myself. :-) No argument from me. It just seems like teams see how handicapped they are going to be, especially the Lions who have perennially drafted that high, if they keep getting top five picks and signing huge guaranteed contracts that cripple the organization from spending other money even if the guy pans out.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 23, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
good point...especially bout the Lions.
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by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Lions need front 4 help...
If they do find a trading partner (other than the Bills) for their #2, they’ll likely miss out on both N.Suh and G.McCoy. Maybe that new first pick is an OT? If so, perhaps they’d be interested in K.Williams and C.Kelsey (and maybe R.Parrish) for #34?
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
Why would they not take 1 of the 2 best players in the draft? A 2nd rounder for Williams and Kelsay might be a little too much to ask from a rebuilding team, too, btw.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Just commenting on their rumoured desire to trade their pick...
I’m not suggesting they should… but if they did, and therefore missed out on one of the top two players (NTs?), would they not become a possible trade partner for Buffalo?
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
Not thinking anything, just tossing it in there for conversation sake.
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well if thats the case
and the Rams go QB, there will be a lot of calls to nab Suh.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
The Lions would be insane not to take him though
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
totally agree
unless they get absolutely blown out of the water by an offer. The Raiders and Redskins are two candidates to vastly overpay for Suh and I’m not just talking about rookie salary wise.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
It would be good to provide a link. :-)
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 23, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
here it is
http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/02/23/lions-shopping-no-2-overall-pick/
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No problem. :-)
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 23, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Could Dan Williams possibly fall to our second round pick?
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 23, 2010 10:20 AM EST reply actions
Not even close.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t think so. Oh well.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 23, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
But
He could fall to that range where we can use our 2nd and 3rd to move up and get him. IE 20 – 25.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
PatrickMoranBSD Tweet
“Two players I hear Buddy Nix is “enamored” with; QB Jevan Snead and DT Dan Williams."
Don’t know if its legit, but tossing it out there.
Here you go Matty: http://twitter.com/PatrickMoranBSD :)
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if true, possible Williams scenario
He’s not a #9 and not a #41 IMO. Bills could trade down to 15-20 and he’d likely be there. Bills would have to have an OT in mind that can wait until round 2. Extra pick(s) from 9 spot could provide some OL opportunities. Snead will likely be around later.
Here’s some info on Snead FWIW:
http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2010-nfl-draft/jevan-snead.html
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
Unfortunately....
Williams is probably a 10-15 or so talent, and with the teams picking between 10-15, I think it’s impossible he falls to the second half of round 1.
Miami needs a NT
Denver needs a NT
San Fran is probably franchise tagging Franklin, but if not, they’d need a NT
The Giants need DT help and could theoretically plug Williams into their 4-3 as a bigtime run defender
I have a feeling that if we really want him, #9 is where we’ll have to take him. And I’d be more than fine with that.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
San Fran is probably franchise tagging Franklin, but if not, they’d need a NT
I thought San Fran franchising Franklin was a done deal?
I'm sure it is
I believe it is, but until that happens and he signs it, ya never know….Maybe some team will offer them a 1st round pick and change for him…They might go for it….My guess is he’ll be a 49er, with a new contract.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Thats kind of high for Williams
Not too many NT’s go that high and he has not done a lot before this year. I think his stock is over hyped at the moment.
Great prospect – sure. But I don’t think he goes that early. More likely Denver or Miami trade down if they are looking for him.
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
If you’ll recall though, Wood was slotted as an early 3rd rounder about this time last year in a lot of mocks and we took him in the late first. These things happen sometimes. I trust NFL talent evaluation a lot more than mocks that take place 2 months before the draft.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Mocks
Yep , Mocks mean very little. My point though was that I do not believe Williams would be value in the top 15 picks.
BTW I never saw Wood lower than mid 2nd in any Mock – I doubt he would have gotten past the Steelers in the 1st. I am glad we took him !
"Fan ?" You want to talk about being a fan of the Bills ? Try getting up at 3 AM every Monday to watch their games knowing they'll likely lose. Do this for 18 years and then call yourself a "fan"
Snead..........
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
:-(
-Buffalo Rumblings resident Chan Gailey basher-
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Don’t freak out. Snead has excellent physical tools. But yeah, he’s not my top choice, either.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
you know its funny..........
Heard that “excellent physical tools” line before…..about a guy drafted by this team….name is a bit fuzzy to me at the moment…..
Oh yeah…….JP Losman
And thats exactly what I see with Snead……….
-Buffalo Rumblings resident Chan Gailey basher-
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Would it be so bad if he was our 3rd round pick??
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
to me yes.
I’d rather go with what we have this year(cough Brohm cough) and get one of the guys next year (Locker, Mallett, Luck {possibly if he declares} Keenam or Devlin)
I like all those guys better than ANYONE in this years class…..
And chances are pretty good that the Bills might have their pick of ANY of these guys next year.
Just my .02
-Buffalo Rumblings resident Chan Gailey basher-
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said. Wrinkle your nose, but don’t freak out.
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I freak out would have consisted of more than one long word.....
l could have went on a rant lol.
-Buffalo Rumblings resident Chan Gailey basher-
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent!
I like what I hear
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I completely agree that Kong Suh is a better fit as a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DT. I think he could give any 3-4 he plays for so much from the DE spot in terms of disruption that he would elevate the status of the entire defense.
If Sergio Kindle is the number 4 3-4 defender in the draft then I’m worried about the top end quality of 3-4 defenders in this years draft. I’m not disagreeing, just hoping the depth in the draft makes up for the lack of elite talent.
I don’t get this statement about McClain:
In Buffalo, he’d make the abilities of Kawika Mitchell and Paul Posluszny immediately redundant, as he’s the same type of player (though markedly more talented).
Everyone was saying the same things about Poz when he was being projected as they are about McClain. You have no way of knowing that McClain is markedly more talented than any LB on our roster. We tend to overstate potential draftees abilities until they actually suit up in the NFL and settle in to the next level. Much the same way fans still rip Poz because hes not the best linebacker of all time that the pre-draft hype made them think he was, McClain will be a good linebacker at the next level who can grow into a great one. Just like Poz is currently in the process of trying to do.
I’m still wary of Dan Williams. I get nervous when a guy suddenly leaps past another on draft boards in the off-season. Terrence Cody was a much better player in college, has better size, and was a consensus better player until he showed up overweight. Weight problems are correctable, the stuff you see on tape is much harder to fix. Much like everyone around here started blowing kisses at Aaron Maybin after one good season, I think we are seeing a similar trend now with Dan Williams. I still think Aaron Maybin can be a good to great player for us – especially in a 3-4 (I know many of you disagree that hes better suited for a 3-4) – but it doesnt change the fact that he was taken too early because his stock skyrocketed late because of an unexpectedly good season and other factors. I’d rather not make a similar move and take someone else with our first pick and take Cody in the second.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
by poz on Feb 23, 2010 11:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
is a problem with Cody
that he is not a everydown player?
would a guy like Williams have to step in on obviouse passing downs?
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Feb 23, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Poz, I am in complete agreement with your entire last paragraph.
I as well am wary of guys who shoot past more “proven” players in the offseason, for various reasons. From what I am reading, Williams has had potential, but really only put together a great season in his senior year. That makes me nervous, that he is now being spoken of so highly.
by StroudFanClub on Feb 23, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
What isit with Tennessee D lineman coming on there senior seasons
First Ayer’s last season,and now William’s.
I think the fact that there are so many 3-4 defenses now
is driving up the value of these NTs even if they dont deserve it. It seems to me there are no 3-4 NTs worth taking in the first round but that the scouts really want there to be.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Good argument...
and the same thoughts I’ve had toward the QB position for years… I mean, is it any wonder so many are busts if their crammed into the first but really, don’t belong there???
I think QBs especially, and NT for a couple years now, are over rated because of the needs at those positions….
Peter King agrees
“In my calls around the league in the last few days, I spoke to one club architect who shall remain nameless at his request. He told me his team had changed its way of doing business in the scouting realm this year, and his team’s draft board is "90 percent set.’’
Quoth this architect: "You know why it’s 90 percent set now? Because guys go to the Scouting Combine and they change their grade on a player based on things that have nothing to do with playing football. I’m convinced if you took the stopwatches away from a lot of these guys, most of ’em would not be able to tell you whether they liked a player or not.
“These guys go out and watch players all fall, then we all watch the tape of all these guys, and we see what kind of football players they are. That’s scouting. Who plays good football in pads? That’s scouting. Now we need the combine for the medical evaluations and the personal baggage stuff. But don’t come in after the combine and tell me you want to change some guy and move him way up because he ran faster than you thought he would. That’s where you get in trouble, and that’s why our draft board is pretty well set.’’
If I told you who this speaker was, you’d all say, “Whoa, we have to listen to this guy. We respect him.‘’ Just take my word for it. He’s legit.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html#ixzz0gNixpEuH
From Pete King’s Monday Morning QB article this week. I know his name is akin to Satan among most sports blogs, but he does have pretty exclusive interaction with the important people around the NFL, and this is someone else’s opinion, not his.
Just my guess, but that was Bill Polian saying that to King. Polian and King are friends and that sounds like the forward thinking that Polian always seems to espouse, as well as King’s ringing endorsement that we should listen to who ever really is talking.
by SamD8n on Feb 23, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
cool link
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Says who?
Its one of the reasons that I like that our scout team here has their board set and isnt planning on changing it drastically.
Where did you see this?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
hahahaha, man your looking for a fight today K!
I was referring to the Rumblings scouting team of Brian, kaiser and DJ. I guess I wasn’t clear though haha
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I thought Buddy Nix might have said something
and I wanted to hear his crazy Southern drawl.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
hahaha
yes well, I assume we’ll have lots of chances to hear him screaming mad in the southern drawl this coming season after each of our many losses.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
We’re gonna make one final post-Combine tweak, add in a few names, and then roll out a Top 50. We won’t grade every prospect, but we’ll get most of the big ones out of the way.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
You have no way of knowing that McClain is markedly more talented than any LB on our roster.
… why not? I saw McClain play five times last year. I know for a fact he’s a much, much better athlete than Paul Posluszny was coming out of Penn State.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
well
I think being more athletic is not the same as being more talented. If you meant athletically then yes, I can see see your point. But we have no way of knowing hes a more talented linebacker than our current crop until we see him do it in the NFL. You saw him play five times in college and as we know that doesn’t mean a smooth transition to the NFL and the talents required to succeed there. If that wasn’t the case, Tebow would be the consensus number one pick. I just dont think we can say he has more talent than anyone right now. Athleticism sure, but Aaron Maybin wasn’t more talented than Aaron Schobel despite his athletic superiority.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
See, now we’re getting into semantics. By “talent,” I mean “athletic prowess,” “physical gifts,” and the like.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
gotcha
just had to be sure you werent annointing McClain as anything. God knows that hasn’t been good for Poz and I’d hate to see the fans turn against Rolando if we draft him because he didnt turn into Patrick Willis.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
We tend to overstate potential draftees abilities until they actually suit up in the NFL and settle in to the next level.
You mean in the same way that many people overrate the abilities of current Bills players??
I’m not really sure why you are calling Dan Williams a one year wonder. Was this his best season? Most definitely. But it’s not like this guy was some bench warmer for three years. He’s not on the Aaron Maybin path to the NFL, so don’t try comparing the two. Williams started 10 games in 2007, finished with 40 tackles, 6.5 tackles for loss, and 2 sacks. In 2008, he started 9 games, finished with 48 tackles, 8.5 TFL’s and 1.5 sacks. He started every game this past year (14) finishing with 70 tackles, 9 TFL’s and 2 sacks. Looks like he was a pretty solid player for three years, getting better each season.
The guy was a late 1st round pick heading into this off-season and has moved up because he showed he can play NT and hold down the middle of a line. It’s not like he’s come out of nowhere….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I’m not really sure why you are calling Dan Williams a one year wonder. Was this his best season? Most definitely. But it’s not like this guy was some bench warmer for three years
I think some of the Dan Williams is overrated talk comes from the fact that as a draft prospect he had a FA grade coming into the 2009 season.
Where did you see that?
That wouldn’t mean much to me anyhow. The guy had weight issues before and has steadily improved during his career. The player he’s become means so much more than the player he was….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I read that on cnnsi.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/02/23/combine.45/index.html
Theres a link. And he has improved during hiscareer. Having said that whileIpersonally wouldn’t mind William’s in the first round. I do understand why some people might have reservations abouthim.
So one guy says it!
But I still don’t think it means much. He improved his stock by playing great football this year. He got his weight in check and responded well to NFL type coaching (Monte Kiffin). I think that says a lot.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I'm not saying I disagree with you.
I’m just saying I can understand where other people’s reservations about him as a prospect come from.
- While Dan Williams is certainly no Aaron Maybin in terms of career path, his late leap up draft boards is parallel. At the end of the season he was considered a Day 2 steal, then he was considered an early 2nd rounder, then he became a late first rounder and now hes being talked about as the 9th pick. Like I said, I’m uneasy when someones stock climbs rapidly in the off-season. Its no knock on Dan Williams. Your right, he was a long term starter and maybe an underrated piece of the Tennessee defense but he was a pretty inconsistent player who could disappear in games before his senior season.
- You mean in the same way that many people overrate the abilities of current Bills players??
To be fair K, just as many fans underrate the abilities of current Bills players as much as they overrate them.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
No way was Williams a 2nd day player after the season...
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
to be honest
I’m not able to follow college football as much as guys like kaiser and DJ so after every season I tend to read up on scouting reports and Dan Williams werent exactly glowing until just recently. At the end of this season a bunch of them were saying he was a Day 2 kind of guy.
Maybe you have just been ahead of the scouting curve on this one?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
for example
last off-season all of them were raising questions about his game and that seems to have disappeared this off-season.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
How he’s talked about – what WE hear – has absolutely nothing to do with his actual draft stock. Only after the season do NFL reporters start talking to teams about prospects. I feel quite certain Dan Williams has been a fringe 1-2 pick all along, and his excellent Senior Bowl moved him into the first round. Same with Brandon Graham.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
No love for Vince Oghabaase from Duke
IMO he’s the prototypical 3-4 DE.
And don't sleep on Corey Wooton either
IMO he’ll start freom Day 1 inwhatever defensive scheme he ends up in. As long as he’s finally fully recovered from his knee injury.
Wootton is another guy that almost made the list.
I think Oghobaase is pretty average. Solid Round 4 prospect, IMO.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Living in North Carolina I'm probably higher on Oghabaase than most of the other rumblers.
I’ve watched a lot of Duke games and I think the guy is gonna perform on the NFL level. He’s looked like a man among boy’s in most of the games I’ve seen him in. Even when playing against the better ACC teams.
You dont think McClain could be a 3-5 MLB?
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
I mean 3-4
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
Personally I think 3-4 MLB
Is the position he’s best suited for.
I do! That’s why he made the list. I just think he’s a very specific type of linebacker, in that he has a certain style.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
You're a Gentleman Brian
…thanks to an unfortunate photo op from Terrence Cody
…you restrained yourself from linking that… lol
I figured everyone had seen it already. If not, Google is working just fine these days. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Feb 23, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
oddly enough.....a photo posted by someone was deleted yesterday........
lol
-Buffalo Rumblings resident Chan Gailey basher-
by norcaliangelsfan on Feb 23, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
First Andre Smith now Terrance Cody
Someone needs to tell Alabama players to keep there shirts on.
If Bill Parcells was GM of this team
He would take Dan Williams at #9, no doubt in my mind.
And with the 9th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select...Hey, Buddy, you can't select a high school senior!!!
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