Bills don't need to trade Marshawn Lynch
by Brian Galliford on Feb 24, 2010 9:00 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintIt's fair to say that Buffalo Bills running back Marshawn Lynch had a terrible 2009. That's not 2009 season - it's 2009 the full calendar year. He was arrested; he was suspended by the NFL for three games; most importantly to his future, he rushed for only 450 yards at 3.8 yards per carry, missed out on rushing for 1,000 yards for the first time in his NFL career, and lost his starting job to Fred Jackson.
Thanks to that down season, Jackson's emergence, and the constant fear that Lynch is one off-field slip-up from both punching his ticket out of the NFL for a considerable amount of time and out of Buffalo, Lynch's name is by far the most popular amongst Bills fans when discussing possible trade opportunities. Given the fickle state of the running back position league-wide - who ever thought we'd see LaDainian Tomlinson and Brian Westbrook released on consecutive days? - there's a very strong chance the Lynch trade predictions have a high degree of accuracy, even if a deal never materializes.
There's a point to make here, though, that is rarely made. Buffalo doesn't have to trade Lynch. Believe it or not, the man still has plenty of value to this organization moving into 2010 and beyond.
Weighing values
Lynch, a little over a year removed from his first Pro Bowl appearance, doesn't hold as much trade value to the Bills as he probably should. Given his character risks and low '09 production, any dreams of dealing Lynch for multiple picks with significant value should be squashed immediately. It's just not going to happen. Buffalo, if they choose to deal Lynch, will probably receive a single pick in return, and they'd be lucky if it was a third-rounder. They got two third-rounders and a seventh-rounder for Willis McGahee prior to the 2007 season, but I seriously doubt that that's a deal that other NFL teams will look to replicate.
You know what? I'll take Lynch in a reduced-starter's role over a third round pick, thank you very much. That's not derogatory to third-round picks at all; I'm not so delusional as to think a third-rounder wouldn't help this team. It just seems to me that folks don't think Lynch can help Buffalo next season.
It's fairly clear that Jackson will be the starter going forward. He's high-character, high-production, consistent and dependable on Sundays. Everything the man does, he does well. You give those types of players the ball as often as possible. But Jackson also celebrated his 29th birthday this past Saturday, and for all the value he brings to your team on the field, the man only has five rushing touchdowns on 425 career carries.
If Lynch is here to supplement Jackson next year, it'll be near the goal line. Horribly obvious statement forthcoming: you can't win in the NFL unless you score points. Jackson is capable of racking up huge yardage totals, but that five-touchdown total is concerning. Consider: Lynch ran for as many touchdowns as Jackson did last season despite logging three fewer games and 117 fewer rushes. Even as a backup, Lynch and his 17 career touchdowns (which by no means an impressive total) has a clear role to play.
Oh, and yes - insert your generic "all good NFL teams have two good runners" argument here.
The usual caveats
All of this is not to say that Lynch is untradeable. I'd be hard-pressed to name three such Bills, and none of them are Lynch. It remains possible that Lynch could be part of a deal for a veteran player; if the Bills attempt to swing a deal for a quarterback, for example, Lynch would be nice bait. If the team is looking at veteran players at need positions, then sure, toss Lynch's name around in those situations and see what materializes. And yeah, if a team offers a second-round pick, or even a third and another conditional pick, those are deals the team would probably have to accept as well.
This is not a "keep Marshawn Lynch at all costs" argument. It's simply the antithesis to the "get whatever we can for Marshawn Lynch" argument. So for anyone out there plotting to introduce their foreheads to brick, relax.
There are a few arguments that I anticipate will dominate the comments section on this post, so I'll try to address those here:
* Reduced role: For those of you squeamish about the idea that the No. 12 overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft will spend his fourth season as a goal line back and backup while toeing the discipline line, I hear you. Clearly, that's not ideal. Neither is flipping your No. 12 overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft for a 2010 third-rounder. Don't let the fall from grace Lynch has taken deteriorate the fact that the man can still carve out a serious role for himself this season.
* Risk: Yes, I'm perfectly aware that keeping Lynch is a risk. It's very possible that the team could choose to keep Lynch, he gets in trouble again, and then the team has to let him go without getting any value in return. That would suck. Again, I believe the value of keeping him outweighs the risk. I realize that's completely subjective, and I'm sure many folks will disagree. Have at it.
* The importance of 2010: This argument kind of goes hand-in-hand with the "running backs are a dime a dozen" argument; Buffalo is re-building, and therefore shouldn't feel pressured to keep two good backs when finding a cheaper, more reliable backup option isn't exactly difficult to do. That part of the argument is fine. When it develops into "2010 is a throwaway year," that's where I have a problem. It's not. Not even close. If Chan Gailey's Bills go 2-14 this season, we won't be talking about Year 2 of the Nix/Gailey re-build a year from now, we'll be scouting future coaching candidates. Gailey needs to get off to a good start. Nix needs to get off to a good start. They won't trade away a player simply because they're in a re-building year. The value has to be there. I have little doubt that Gailey believes he can get plenty of good contributions out of Lynch next season if he's with the team - and he'll need it.
To add to that argument, it is absolutely imperative - as in mandatory, must-have, a necessity, and all those other synonyms - that the Bills have two viable rushing threats next year. The team will have a completely re-structured offensive line. They'll be starting either a battered veteran, a young rookie or Trent Edwards at quarterback. Gailey's not an idiot; he'll go with what works offensively. The chances are tremendous that Buffalo will develop a run-first, physical identity offensively next year.
The bottom line here is that treating a Lynch trade as a foregone conclusion is a mistake. It completely ignores the fact that Lynch still has a role to play as it stands now. It ignores the fact that Buffalo won't trade away good players just to clean house. That's not how it works. I'm not saying here that Lynch won't be traded. As I said, there are absolutely circumstances in which dealing Lynch would be a great idea for this team. All I'm saying is, let's not condemn it as a front office failure if Marshawn Lynch is toting the rock at St. John Fisher College this July. That wouldn't be a bad thing for this team, folks.
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Agree with everything you've said in this article brian
If the Bill’s can get value for Lynch then trade him. If not hold onto him. But what would you consider Lynch’s trade value right now? A 3rd and a 5th ?
I also totally agree with Brian's piece
The essence of his argument is that keeping Lynch does represent a risk, but since Lynch definitely has some value for us if he keeps out of trouble and we may not be able to get anything better than a 3rd round pick for him at this point it is a risk worth taking. That makes sense to me. There is also the possibility that Marshawn will be highly motivated to get his career back on track and start ripping off big yardage for us, but that of course is conditioned on someone being able to teach him to hit the hole properly instead of dancing around.
the crux of the issue for me
It’s very possible that the team could choose to keep Lynch, he gets in trouble again
He’s a talented athlete. Unfortunately, he has trouble staying out of, well, trouble. Another concern is his psyche. Will he “dog it” because he’s relegated to a role runner? Given his lack of discipline, that’s highly likely. Purely on a talent basis, running back is one of the few bright spots for this team. IF (and it’s a big one), the coaches can make him “behave”, the coaches are well on their way to implementing the run-first style of offense. Few teams would have such a potent backfield.
If they can’t, it’s another year of listening to Lynch’s lawyer, agent et al., explain his antics, or worse, we cut him loose and get zilch.
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria"
I have never seen ML “dog it,” and I don’t think he would. His identity is giving it all.
a.k.a. Undee
Why did Lynch gain 20 lbs of fat again?
Granted, some of it was stored between his ears, but still….it was not like he spent his suspension in the gym getting in shape.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Great points Brian...
I have been one of the “trade Lynch” supporters for some time but I have to agree that we don’t HAVE to do it. As stated before, I would love the idea of trading Lynch & #9 to Philly for McNabb & their 24th……. When I read that Philly released Westbrook yesterday, I will admit that the scenario above came back full force. I also agree that any trade for Lynch (who is a terrific football player) must bring in the value necessary to help our team THIS year. I (unlike some) have faith that Nix/Gailey share this mind set as well, if the value (and that’s a big word in this equation) is there, there is no harm in exploring it….. if it is a trade just to “move him out” it would be a huge mistake. Let the games begin!
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by J2 on Feb 24, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather keep Lynch, but if he has to go… What about M.Lynch and K.Williams for D.McNabb and their #2 (or #3) pick?
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
I don’t want the Bills to trade him, he’s 23, fresh, proven on the field, and Freddy is hitting that tipping point age. If they did I wouldn’t be angry, but I think he’s got a ton of upside that he’s worth the risk as we rebuild this thing.
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I am perplexed
by the views everyone to this point has on Lynch. Marshawn Lynch has never been a good running back. He’s displayed the ability to run into a defender and on occasion, take two or three guys with him for a 2 or 3 yard spurt. But his career stats are barely worthy of a 3rd round draft pick. I’m not sure why every one seems to think that someone along the line he’s going to gain speed. Or when he’s all of a sudden going to figure out that its easier to run around defenders than through them. He’s not exactly a student of the game. As far as I’m concerned, his value is as high as its ever going to be. All the reasons that have been listed to keep him, are reasons why I think we need to trade him. I agree with the statement, don’t trade him at all costs. But I would certainly make an effort to shop him around. His best season he ran at a 4.1 ypc clip. Hardly earth shattering from a 12th overall selection. I mean its evidence enough watching the difference between Freddy and ML. Fred runs with a purpose, confidence, and desire. ML looks like he’s running with a 30lb rock in his arm. He looked slow, completely inept when it came to finding creases, and almost with fear of getting hit. Please Buffalo, trade him before his value is completely diminished. Ideally, I would love to see the Bills trade Lynch for a third round pick, and find a way to draft CJ Spiller. Whether its the first round or second. I know it sounds crazy. But think about it for a second. Lynch isnt going to get any better. I promise. Freddy is already 29 and a great runner and receiver out of the backfield. He is not a home run threat. If they draft Spiller, you not only get back the youth you lost in Lynch, but get the home run threat that the Titans have in CJ, or the Chiefs have in Charles. It would be nice to have a player that has you on the edge of your seat, and no matter where you are on the field, and no matter who is blocking for him, there’s a chance he can take it to the house.
Or when he’s all of a sudden going to figure out that its easier to run around defenders than through them.
He tried to do that this year. He failed. He was trying to wait on a hole to develop for the big play and got crushed. The OL didn’t help. He’s not really that type of running back anyway. This is fine. We have some redundancy with Jackson and Lynch, but that’s not a bad thing.
He looked slow, completely inept when it came to finding creases, and almost with fear of getting hit.
He looked slow because of the extra weight. I’m not sure if that’s really on him or the former coaching staff, but it was clearly a poor idea and I would assume he switches back to his previous weight this year. He looked inept at finding creases because he was constantly looking for the big play and the OL was not much help. Jackson’s main strength is his ability to find a small hole and wiggle and twist for a couple more yards. Lynch is not as good at it, but if he gets back to his old way of doing things and the line gets shored up, he’ll be fine. As for a fear of getting hit, I didn’t see that at all.
If they draft Spiller, you not only get back the youth you lost in Lynch, but get the home run threat that the Titans have in CJ, or the Chiefs have in Charles.
* you hope
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
The Problem is......
Both Freddie and Lynch are both downhill runners…
To me taking a backseat to Freddie changed the way Marshawn runs. He use to be Beast Mode on every run and now it seems he is in Dance Mode. This is mainly due,IMO, to him trying to break the big play to possibly get his starting role back.
Bottom line is, I would just like both of them to understand that they are downhill runners and if they can both run that way, and the OL can block, this does not give the opposing Def a play off from getting pounded.
dance mode, that’s good.
i noticed it last year, too. he just seems to be bumming around instead of powering through his runs the way he used to. i’m not a fan of that. if he weighed 180, i’d understand. but the guys basically a fullback. he needs to put his head down and run people over like he used to.
EDWARDS THE NEW PISTOL , OWENS THE BAD SLAYER , EVANS THE FLYING METEOR AND COMING SOON THE BEAST MODE THIS IS SPARBUFONIA - abayarde
To this point too....
In theory we play the 3-4 def at least 6 times a year as the AFC east is now a 3-4 conference.
The weakness in a 3-4 is suppose to be the middle and not the outside. We have a solid middle of our OL(when healthy) with Hang, Wood and Lev. If we can get Freddie and Lynch to average close to 4 yards it will make way for the next Capt Checkdown. I kid of course.
Run it down there throats….. Should be what Chix is looking at offensively.
by MikeEverett08 on Feb 24, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
To me taking a backseat to Freddie changed the way Marshawn runs
Couldnt have said it better myself. It seemed like Marshawn had to “win back his starting job with one touch.” He wanted to score, or bust a long one everytime he touched it, and in the mean time he got away from what made him successful.
I dont want Marshawn Lynch back, I want Beast Mode.
"Hey ey ey ey"
Totally Agree
I think with the two backs we have we should be pounding the ball next year with a run first mentality, use some play action and get both guys significant touches. This could hopefully translate into a ball control offense and hopefully leave the defense on the sideline alot lees than last year.
by Buffalo Brad on Feb 24, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
2 Back argument
If the Bills were to trade away Marshawn, what would they do as far as a #2? There is no one else on the roster. Drafting another RB would be pointless because we know what Lynch can do. Any draft pick would be a gamble. #23 still has amazing seasons left in him and the Bills really need to do what they can to hang onto him. NFL teams need 2 quality backs and since the Bills already have 2, this is NOT an area of need. Keep Beastmode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no one else on the roster. Drafting another RB would be pointless because we know what Lynch can do. Any draft pick would be a gamble.
They could always sign a free agent, and go with Freddie – FA – Rookie. This argument hold very little weight IMHO.
NFL teams need 2 quality backs and since the Bills already have 2, this is NOT an area of need.
I could not disagree more. NFL teams need two good DEPENDABLE backs. The Bills have 1 not two.That is the point.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I have to disagree with you...
They could always sign a free agent, and go with Freddie – FA – Rookie. This argument hold very little weight IMHO.
Then we would have one more hole to fill, and if anyone is absolutely sure that Freddie will be healthy all season long is kidding themselves. We have never seen Freddie handle the entire load for more one season, we NEED both backs, IMO.
I could not disagree more. NFL teams need two good DEPENDABLE backs. The Bills have 1 not two.That is the point.
I believe that we have two very dependable backs ‘on the field’, if you want to say that Marshawn in not dependable because off his off-field actions, then that is a different argument. I actually think this is an area of need, I want both a speed and power back each in this draft (no earlier than 5-7 rnds I hope). To ensure against both Lynches possible NFL-enforced hiatus (I doubt there will ever be one) and Freddies age.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I believe that we have two very dependable backs ‘on the field’, if you want to say that Marshawn in not dependable because off his off-field actions, then that is a different argument.
What? No it isn’t a different argument. If Lynch never makes it to the field how is that dependable? You can’t count on Lynch being available for opening day. That is teh whole point.
Then we would have one more hole to fill, and if anyone is absolutely sure that Freddie will be healthy all season long is kidding themselves.
That is why there is the vet. I have never, ever said that the Bills should count on Freddie and Freddie alone.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
What? No it isn’t a different argument. If Lynch never makes it to the field how is that dependable? You can’t count on Lynch being available for opening day. That is teh whole point.
Did Marshawn do something again that I am not aware of? Is there any reason at all that he wont be there for training camp? Or are you just speculating that something will happen? If that is case, I will side with the investment already made, rather than dumping it early and gambling on another investment.
That is why there is the vet. I have never, ever said that the Bills should count on Freddie and Freddie alone.
Rarely do acquired vet RBs ever really pay off.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
exactly NorCal
I will side with the investment already made, rather than dumping it early and gambling on another investment.
I’ve been trying to say this but you delivered it much more eloquently. Agreed 100%
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Once again, (See the Uncommon Denominator, this is me repeating myself yet again) His past says that he will mess up again. Will he? Maybe, maybe not. Will he return to his 1,000 yard a year form? Maybe, maybe not. The point is that he can’t be counted on to be there. CYA.
Everyone here wants to draft a RB late, but they also say that anything after a 3rd rounder is probably a junk player anyway. So we would basically have Marshawn and Freddie. If Lynch does get suspended again the Bills are left browsing the scrap heap and hoping that Freddie stays healthy. That is what I want to avoid.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
If Lynch does get suspended again the Bills are left browsing the scrap heap and hoping that Freddie stays healthy.
Every year there are good RBs still available after the season starts.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Lynch caught
taking bong hits in his Ford Expedition in a parking lot – Suspended for the year. Wow, we should have traded him.
There are plenty of excellent rookie running backs that contributed last season – This guy is not a character player and is on the verge of becoming another Travis Henry!
i think it was a joint
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Feb 24, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
How is he anything like Travis Henry?
Because both players got in trouble? Would you have traded or cut Ray Lewis, or Marvin Harrison, or Warren Sapp or Michael Irvin, or even Bruce Smith because of their off-field troubles?
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
… Im not for a trade… but if we do, trade him for McNabb and swap firsts. That way I can just give my roommate my Lynch jersey and Ill take his McNabb one.
"Hey ey ey ey"
The Eagles would never go for that. Apparently they are not even listening to offers unless they have a first rounder or early second rounder involved.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Very Good Article
I haven’t really said this, but I think we should keep Lynch. I can’t imagine anyone giving more than a 3rd round pick for him. On the off chance we get a 2nd or better, we jump all over it.
Lynch is a hard-nosed football player and has taken the demotion from starter well (at least as far as we can tell). He is also a capable starter WHEN Jackson gets hurt. Let’s not kid ourselves every NFL starting RB misses games.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Feb 24, 2010 10:02 AM EST reply actions
And if Lynch gets hurt when Freddie gets hurt? We still need a #3. That need doesn’t go away.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 24, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
This team already needs another RB on the roster. I agree. Why not get two while we are at it?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Because this year it’s easier to find one than two? I get your point about Lynch not being reliable. I really do. I’m just not sure how we pick up another guy this year. The decent FA choices basically boil down to Chester Taylor and Willie Parker. We don’t have much to trade. Our draft needs to be heavily focused on QB, OT, and defense. Is it really wise to spend a mid-round pick on an RB that might possibly need to contribute when we could be able to pick up a starting lineman with that pick? I just think we don’t have a lot of options. I’m all for insurance policies, but two RBs seems like a tall order this offseason.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 24, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Not at all.
This team is rebuilding. That much should be very clear to everyone. Players can be found all over the draft. I am okay with going into the season with holes left unfilled.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Why should we create another hole though?
As of today, if Lynch is attractive to any other team.. Why should we let him go? The odds of us getting good value in return are almost nil.
Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!
by Run Thurmal Run! on Feb 24, 2010 12:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The roster is already swiss cheese, why add one more?
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Y’all can go round and round in circles with that one. That’s why I didn’t put that lil’ argument in the article. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Feb 24, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to agree with Eric on that point. The roster is already swiss cheese….so why not trade the guys that you know couldn’t effectively contribute on a championship team, regardless of whether it creates a hole or not, and try to find a way to plug another whole? If you do your homework before the draft you could be looking at trading Roscoe Parrish and finding someone like Marques Colston or Austin Collie, or maybe a Tom Brady or a Cortland Finnegan. It is a lot easier to break everything down and start from scratch than it is to try to work around weaknesses.
It is a lot easier to break everything down and start from scratch than it is to try to work around weaknesses.
Exactly.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Is Lynch a weakness now?
I just dont understand the logic behind most of these trade Marshawn posts.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Lynch is a quality piece and young
Why remove a quality piece with a lot of tread on his tires from the roster. The only rationale I can see is he is unreliable and expensive for a backup RB.
This is why I argued against trading Peters last year… You don’t fill out a roster by removing young talent. You just don’t.
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Feb 24, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Lynch and Peters are two different animals here though. Peters wanted to get paid and used moron tactics to do it. Lynch is one screw-up away from a year long ban. It is about cutting your losses before they become nil.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Yeah… I am so glad we got rid of that probowl young left tackle… We are SOOO much better off now!
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Feb 24, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
yet again you take another opportunity to take a totally unrelated post to bring up Peters….
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Relevance
Peters – young, talented player with issues
Lynch – young, talented player with issues
We traded Peters away and you are throwing the idea of putting Lynch out there on the trading block. That is the relevance.
The Bills were just being CHEAP! with Peters… Yeah that’s right I said it… OBD was CHEAP!
I got nothing.
by Jason from OH-IO on Feb 25, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Lynch has been arrested twice in the last two off-seasons, and is facing a possible year long ban with one more arrest.
Peters held out of camp and all of the preseason in trying to get himself a new contract.
Peters “issues” that you speak of are not any where near the same zip code as Lynch’s real issues.
Peters isn’t relevant to this discussion….well to everyone except you.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Got rid of?
I thought it was about $$$, he choose to sign with Eagles, how’s that equate to getting rid of?
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
The Bills traded him to the Eagles who wouldn’t have been able to negotiate with Peters since he was under contract with the Bills.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 24, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
In training camp last year the news with Lynch was that he ‘packed on muscle, but didn’t lose any speed’. Which I of course thought was a silly notion at the time (simple physics will tell you that).
And as described above, Lynch turned more into ‘Dance Mode’ than ‘Beast Mode’.
Combine the two and it’s easy to see why he wasn’t successful.
Lose some weight and try to get 4 yards every carry instead of 40 and I think we’ll see him be more successful.
So
If you add muscle you lose speed? Why’s that ? Agree with the beast mode analogy he needs to find his groove, maybe he’s trying to hard?
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, kind of true but very misleading...
he ‘packed on muscle, but didn’t lose any speed’. Which I of course thought was a silly notion at the time (simple physics will tell you that).
That is true at a certain point with certain individuals, there is nothing wrong with losing fat and adding muscle (weight gain), or adding muscle to certain areas which can help with speed development, which physics will also tell you is possible.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
There’s an optimum speed-power(-weight) ratio for any athlete, which is also position (and sport) specific. Clearly, Lynch either missed on his optimum ratio or made erroros in his off-season foot-speed training.
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
Wow
Looks like a equation! Speed-power (-weight) ratio. Whatever happened to good old common sense.
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
KEEP LYNCH!
Obviously, every successful team has two quality backs (NO, IND, BAL, NE, SD, NYJ, etc.), and the Bills have that right now, which is one of the only positions we don’t need to draft. I think Lynch’s play in Toronto (against NYJ) is enough of an example of what he is capable of. Add in his ability to find the enzone, and you have a solid case for keeping him on the team. Plus, Gailey is most likely as Brian stated, going to establish a “run first” mentality, so we will need two ‘experienced’ quality backs to shoulder the load.
I have to think that if the Bills were going to trade Lynch, he would be an Eagle right now, and we would have either McNabb or Vick, just my opinion.
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Ability to find the end zone? He has 17 tds in 3 seasons. I’ll do the math for you. Less than 6 per season. Running backs drafted in his slot should do that in one season. Even a two season total of 17 is less than eye popping.
There’s no way that can all be on Lynch. The offense and play calling of the last 3 years have been a joke. There’s been no time when the line was above average. There’s been no time when there was a legit threat for our QB to take over the game, thus giving the RB some room to breathe.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
He has 17 tds in 3 seasons. Running backs drafted in his slot should do that in one season
Huh? It’s only happened 28 time in NFL history. Only Adrian Peterson did it in 2009.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 25, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
You can make all the excuses you want about Lynch having to do with the play calling, offensive line, and quarterback (or lack thereof) but the fact remains the same, Fred Jackson lead the league in AP yards with all those factors against him as well.
Huh? It’s only happened 28 time in NFL history. Only Adrian Peterson did it in 2009
So once every two to three seasons is an oddity? And expecting 17 tds in one season is a bit of an exaggeration. But 17 in 3 seasons (I wont exclude the first three games, that suspension factors into his stats for me.) is a huge disappointment for me. And not to mention his career average of 4.0ypc and 13 career rushes of 20 or more yards. Numbers expected of a third round pick or later. Not a 12 overall.
Fantasy
You seem stuck on TD stats. That really isn’t a indicator of a RB’s value to a team. Unless your playing fantasy football.
by buffalobacker on Feb 25, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Fred Jackson lead the league in AP yards with all those factors against him as well.
Yes. I love Fred Jackson, too. He barely scraped by the thousand yard mark rushing the football.
YES WE CHAN!
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 25, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
You seem stuck on TD stats. That really isn’t a indicator of a RB’s value to a team.
And drafting a guy twelfth overall to be your backup to an undrafted 29 year old journeyman is value? Lynch’s most value to the team at this point is in the form of a 3rd round draft pick. He doesnt have the attitude to change anything. He has essentially regressed his 3 years in Buffalo. He won’t be resigned by this new regime. So why not get something for him.
O.K.
First off, I didn’t say Marshawn was a great value. I was referring to your expectation of number of TD’s. I’ve said repeatedly that Marshawn is’nt gonna have enough trade value, where stuck with him. I don’t know anything about Lynch’s attitude. I agree, he won’t be resigned, barring a possible resurgence in his performance. I’d love to get something for him, got any takers?
by buffalobacker on Feb 26, 2010 5:01 AM EST up reply actions
I do agree with you about the TDs, and I brought that up in the beginning of last season when Lynch was out for 3 games. And I am still not completely convinced Freddy will be able to get in the endzone consistently, then again, the entire team wasn’t able to get in there consistently…
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
Home run speed...
Is the problem with our current crop of running backs, if we do trade for Lynch which I’m not saying we should do, but if we do we should try and get someone who can take it to the house!
Home run speed????
I’ve got to ask you, and everyone else on here, just what do you consider, “home run” speed?
4.3? 4.4? How ’bout 4.46? Would that work?
Because it’s sorta funny since that was Lynch speed at the combine… 4.46….
How ‘bout we just give him the rock when there’s not 8 in the box?
Sorry but Lynch is a bruiser not a speedster. he isn’t outrunning many if any defensive backs…overpower them? Maybe. out run them? No.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Yeah. Gotta agree there. He accelerates pretty well, but he really doesn’t have much in the way of top-end speed. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, it just changes what people need to expect from him.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 24, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Is anyone aware of a place that has short yardage statistics for RBs (like converting 3rd or 4th down with 2-3 yards or less)?
I don’t subscribe to Brian’s opinion that Lynch is better than Jackson in those situations, or at least a better option at the goal line. I suspect it’s more a case of having more opportunities at the goal line than being a better option, particularly last year. But I have nothing to back that up other than watching games and seeing (or at least think that I’m seeing) that Jackson is better in those situations.
Ok, here’s something I found, although not as detailed as I want.
Jackson had 29 carries in the ‘Red Zone’ and 2 TDs.
Lynch had 19 carries and 2 TDs in the same situation.
Which means that the Bills offense was terrible and they were barely in the Red Zone last year (they averaged 3 red zone carries a GAME).
Extending this out 3 years:
Jackson – 56 carries, 4 TDs
Lynch – 99 carries, 14 TDs (with 2008 the best year)
So over that period Lynch has been better, but it was helped considerably when he scored 7 TDs on 36 red zone carries. I think most would agree that he didn’t run the same last year as 2008.
If they’re both at their peak Lynch is the better option close to the end zone, but based on last year I think Jackson was a better short yardage option (this is only looking at the red zone, and does not include 3rd and 1s at midfield… more data might make the picture clearer).
I’m open to all sides on this one — on one hand, the Bills’ offense can’t afford to lose ANY amount of playable talent. Lynch is still a very young man and a double threat out of the backfield. We need two running backs to keep Fred fresh and effective, as well as keep defenses off balance with a change of pace. On the other hand, we’re not going to HAVE two running backs if Lynch so much as looks at law enforcement official the wrong way. He has zero room for understanding in that department, and at this stage in his progression through the league conduct policy steps, it’s very possible one slip up will land him suspended for the whole year, thus depriving us of said Second RB anyways.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
In conclusion,
I say we draw a somewhat tough line at the offering table. We decide a value (3rd round, pick 5 for example). We accept any trade above that value for Lynch and we decline anything below it. This way we leave open the possibility of trading him if the price is favorable to us, but also we don’t just sign away a talented player for a garbage pick.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
YOU HAVE IT WRONG
Many keep saying that teams need two good backs in the NFL. THAT IS WRONG! You need two good, DEPENDABLE running backs in the NFL. Lynch is not dependable plain and simple. No body here can say that Lynch can be counted on, because he can’t. THAT IS THE POINT! Can he run? Yes. Is he a capable player? Yes. Can the Bills count on the fact that he will be in uniform opening week? History says no.
If you can use his past accomplishments (1,000 yard seasons, pro-bowl appearance) to prove how good he is, then I can use his past accomplishments (two arrests in two off-seasons) to prove that he isn’t reliable.
If the Bills keep Lynch, and I agree that if they are taking less then a 3rd rounder in return it may not be worth it, they would be very wise to sign a vet anyway. Heck, I would move forward as if Lynch isn’t on the team, if he is available…great! move forward with him, if not, you’re covered.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
That's a good point
You have to think a wise move would be to pick up an insurance policy no matter what. If the Bills had say, Dominic Rhodes at this point we wouldn’t have to worry about trading Lynch. The question is, what kind of running back will settle for being third-string? The answer is: a situational running back. What about a Zack Crockett type goal-line back or a Michael Bennett-type speed running back. Those players don’t have a legitimate grievance to be on the field more than ten plays a game, so they can’t whine about being third string — however they are talented enough where they can be turned to for second string or even temporary first string play in a pinch. Yeah, I like it.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
YOU HAVE IT WRONG
I have to say, sireric, after watching this develop for a while, it’s bringing out a side of you I have never seen read. It seems like you just plain don’t like the guy, and this is a way to vent? I may be wrong.
So pick up a vet or draft a home-run threat for a third option. Just be careful not to dump roster value for the wrong reason.
a.k.a. Undee
It’s not about Lynch. Honestly I like Marshawn and would love to see him get his act straight and be a stud for the Bills for a decade. It is about the members of this community that can at times frustrate me. I have have said on many occasions what the issue is and people still post comments that miss the whole point of why I feel he should be dealt. It is about dependability and being reliable, something that nobody can prove Marshawn is.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Dependability.
Right, for sure, he’s the riskiest thing for the Bills concerning suspensions. And the $20 thing SCARES me, b/c it sounds like the local law has a grudge against ML (maybe the Bills in general?)
But you say people miss the point of why he should be dealt. Why would another team take on the risk ML represents, where the Bills shouldn’t? What do you say to me if I say you are missing the point that the risk is worth taking, based on his potential resurgence?
a.k.a. Undee
b/c it sounds like the local law has a grudge against ML (maybe the Bills in general?)
I know for sure that the BPD and EC Sheriffs all know Marshawn and specificaly his brothers/cousins. they’ve had many issues with his family and marshawn himself. i golf with a bunch of genesee and eric county cops and that’s how i know
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 24, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
100% Agree w/ ur post
What do you say to me if I say you are missing the point that the risk is worth taking, based on his potential resurgence?
He is a very talented RB, still at a young age with one less year of wear & tear due to his suspension and reduced carries. What will you Trade-Marshawn’ers do if he regains his Pro Bowl running style this year and retakes his starting position. Trade him? Let’s keep our talented players for a change.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
What do you say to me if I say you are missing the point that the risk is worth taking, based on his potential resurgence?
something I have said in this very thread regarding that-
If the Bills keep Lynch, and I agree that if they are taking less then a 3rd rounder in return it may not be worth it, they would be very wise to sign a vet anyway.
I have said that his recent transgressions have killed his value and it may be more valuable to keep him. I would want a high 3rd at the very least. I get that point very well.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I believe most Rumblers
have very similar views on the subject, but the fence seems to be right in the middle of a tight crowd.
a.k.a. Undee
We will regret not getting rid of him
I agree when he is used correctly he is a very good back but he will slip up again (no doubt in my mind) and when he is suspended for the year we will look back at this time and realize we missed a huge opportunity to move him at the height of his value. There just no reason to take this chance on a team that can’t afford to take chances move him for a pick any pick
Rrrawrrrr, rrrawrrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes
we will look back at this time and realize we missed a huge opportunity to move him at the height of his value.
I think you missed one HUGE point of the article.
a.k.a. Undee
It must be nice to have such conviction...
but he will slip up again (no doubt in my mind)
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Why Trade Lynch...
I see no reason to trade him and create another hole in a team full of holes. In all actuality a team needs at least 3 good RB’s on the roster, currently the Bills have only 2 —Jackson and Lynch. If Jackson continues his role as featured back, pass receiver and kick returner Lynch’s role becomes much more important especially running behind the Bills weak O-line. Again we are all hoping the Marshawn has learned is proverbial lesson and becomes the back that the Bills can count on.
What worries me more is that I’ve read that Lynch is not a very like-able individual who is starting to rub his teammates the wrong way with his Punk Attitude…
.
'To get something you never had,
you have to do something you never did.'
I see no reason to trade him and create another hole in a team full of holes.
This team is rebuilding (yet again). Now IS the time to replace him. Yes this team has many holes. So What? When you blow the whole thing up, you don’t keep all your old players. That is why they call it blowing the whole thing up and starting over…you start over.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I don't think.....
This is a complete rebuild. And I agree with Brian in that, if the team goes 2-14 then there will be a hefty price to pay.
I would say we have the tools to be a more positive 7-9 if there is such a thing in Bills Nation, with the rebuild on Defense. This team should still be very competitve. We are not the Det Lions rebuilding here…….
by MikeEverett08 on Feb 24, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
We are not the Det Lions rebuilding here…….
You sure about that?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I don’t think…..This is a complete rebuild.
Hire new GM – check
Fire dead weight form old regime and hire new blood – check
Hire new head coach and all new coaches – check
Change offensive scheme – check
Change Defensive scheme from the hated Tampa 2 to the beloved 3-4 – check
New GM, new coaching staff, new offensive and defensive schemes…..How is this not a complete rebuild? The only thing left is to tear down the Ralph and make a new stadium.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Ok ok....
I just think the Talent Pool we have is better…….
by MikeEverett08 on Feb 24, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
normally i agree with what you say, but today...
I think you are making a couple of points. Good in their own right but also slightly contradictory.
You are right that it is a complete rebuild, it is. However this rebuild started the day Nix was hired. Therefore any player on the team currently is open for release or trade.
With that said, if we hold on to Lynch, he gets in trouble, and we lose him without getting value in return, then it has no real bearing on our current rebuild because he was here from the last regime.
If we do trade him for a draft pick then we would have to draft to replace him with a rookie, and whether or not the rookie will even produce is up in the air.
side note: A lot of people are clamouring for a talent laiden team, and Marshawn arguably has the most talent on the team.
To end I also would like to point out that this rebuilding process will take at LEAST 3 years for it all to come together. By then, it will be close to drafting another RB anyway.
this rebuilding process will take at LEAST 3 years for it all to come together. By then, it will be close to drafting another RB anyway.
Why? Marshawn will be 26 and in his early prime with 4 good years left. We’d probably have drafted a back to replace fred by then anyway.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
age age is different from football age. He will have had 6 years in the league by then and the tires start to wear down by then.
And thats only if he cleans up his act. And IF he does that and plays exceptionally well, we are looking at a lucrative contract deal for him. Take into consideration we might have a top 5 pick next year as QB ($$$) that is a lot of money to spend the Bills probably dont have.
good points
tire tred and a big contract if he plays up to his potential are all good points. Although if he does become a perennial Pro Bowler I’d show him the money. If not, he may not be worth the money hes asking for because as you noted, age age is not football age. Although Fred Jackson should help extend his career.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I would be weary to show any RB with 5+ years the money. case and point LT. Although you are right about Freddy helping extend his career. In fact, when you look at it that way, they really need each other.
they really need each other.
They do, and the team needs them together to. If they stay as a unit we get many years of good running back play from the both.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
If we do trade him for a draft pick then we would have to draft to replace him with a rookie, and whether or not the rookie will even produce is up in the air.
This team is supposedly trying to build through the draft, if we can’t count on rookies what the hell are we doing?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
History shows that most good runningbacks are first or second round talent. I highly doubt that we are going to spend these valuable picks on another RB instead of OL, DL, QB, WR, LB etc.
i brought up the same point
and eric responded with his point that he wants Jahvid Best in the 2nd round. I dont agree with taking a back that early but at least eric is realistic in how he would replace marshawn.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Nix/Gailey
I thought thses guy’s philosphy was to be a run first team ? Why would’nt they look at RB in the 2nd rd?
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
oh they might
I just wouldnt be happy about it. We have so many glaring needs at cornerstone positions ranging from QB to NT to LT to RT to WR to OLB that if we draft a RB in the first two rounds with Freddy there – let alone Freddy and Marshawn and I’d be pretty upset.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
True
So they take OT 1st rd . Work with present QB’s, address NT in draft as well as other needs. Not forgetting a FA signing. Take a RB 2nd rd if available and run the ball like Gailey is purported to favor.
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
taking Best would be a mistake in my opinion
I think back to Der Jaeger’s excellent post about the different defensive schemes before we hired Edwards. I specifically remember him saying that the best way to defeat a 3-4 is to have a power running attack, even more specifically a 2 TE set. With that being said, I dont see Best as a perfect fit. If eric wants a RB in round 2 I’d look towards Gerhardt.
O.K.
I believe power running game is what their after. Whomever they find to achieve that is good.
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I For 1
Wouldn’t be surprised after grabbing OT that we do address RB if that player is BPA. Still have picks to adress other areas as well as FA
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I hear what you're saying
But I would only draft a RB if I think he is far and away better than the current one or if the current one is slowing down a la LT, Westbrook etc
But........
Yes you transition over and you can’t keep all your OLD players but Lynch is a young player with still plenty of potential. When you blow up a team it’s a tough decision on who to keep or who to let go. My opinion would be to keep him and build a running game around him and Jackson. The biggest problem is that he has 2 strikes against him…
'To get something you never had,
you have to do something you never did.'
While the punk attitude isn't great
It’s not really a dealbreaking attribute to a player. As long as the guy is coachable, plays within the scheme, and doesn’t start fights (Incognito!) who cares whether the players like him after practice or not.
The only real punkness we’ve seen out of Marshawn is a little practical joking or some silliness on the sideline. He seems very chill, not like someone who’s looking to start something.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
What worries me more is that I’ve read that Lynch is not a very like-able individual who is starting to rub his teammates the wrong way with his Punk Attitude…
I don’t think Lynch has a punk attitude. It seems to me that him always joking with teammates, playfully pushing Schobel in practice, and getting along with Freddie (who took his starting role away) shows that he is not a punk at all. Lynch is like the Chad Ochocinco of the Bills in that he likes to joke around and have a good time. He just doesn’t take his antics to the extent of Ocho.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
What worries me more is that I’ve read that Lynch is not a very like-able individual who is starting to rub his teammates the wrong way with his Punk Attitude…
Do you have a link…I have never heard that before and when I went to Cal, he was loved as a teammate and a person. He grew up in Oakland and yet stayed out of trouble there with both the team and the local law enforcement.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
In case you missed it
Nor Cal—-Problems with Lynch Here’s a link from Pro Football Weekly…
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/02/05/lynchs-days-in-buffalo-may-be-numbered
'To get something you never had,
you have to do something you never did.'
Link
Not defending Lynch, but it’s strictly hearsay in reference to other players opinions of him. I think he’ll be given every chance to redeem himself with team, if they are’nt able or willing to trade him.
by buffalobacker on Feb 25, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
B-backer
Definitely hearsay but where there is smoke there is fire—-I’ve been a subscriber to PFW since the late 70’s and they generally get an excellent insight to what is going on in the NFL.
I’m with you he will definitely be given a chance to redeem himself and the Bills need him to succeed.
'To get something you never had,
you have to do something you never did.'
Lynch
If somebody wants him, o.k. trade him if the price is right. But if not, we run with what we have. All we can do is hope Lynch stays outa trouble and gives 100% effort. We can still look for RB in draft or FA. Like someone said we could use the depth. With all are other needs this Lynch issue is a distraction we don’t need. I’m putting Lynch on back burner and focusing on what Bill’s do to elevate are sorry O/L and get player to run 3-4 def. Lynch issue not are most pressing problem at this time. Lynch controls his own destiny, it’s really up to him. But he really does come off as not to bright! Besides who’s gonna run behind are stellar O/L and be effective as it is now?
Neither Jackson nor Lynch is really a full time guy a la Thurman Thomas.
But we DO need both for that reason alone.
It’s said that you can never have enough good cornerbacks, and the same applies to the RB position as well. Depth can go away alarmingly fast due to the amount of contact backs have to put up with.
If the Bills really wanted to trade Lynch, they should have done so after the 2008 season when his trade value was higher (Pro Bowl appearance). It doesn’t make sense now, especially with a coach who is going to put more emphasis on running the football, especially witth the dearth of QB talent on the team.
Brian’s argument about Jackson’s age is also valid, although Jackson hasn’t put as many miles on his body as most NFL backs about his age (i.e. – LT). Another reason to keep Lynch, as long as he behaves himself off the field.
So why trade Marshawn? Not a smart move for this franchise. Good article Brian. Rec.
And with the 9th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select...Hey, Buddy, you can't select a high school senior!!!
thank you for this article
I have been losing my mind recently. I just gained some sanity back. The arguement from some fans that the team has to trade Lynch but then those same fans screaming that no one wants Lynch was getting exhausting. The conclusion is exactly what Brian said, the team doesn’t have to trade Lynch. He has more value to us then what he’d fetch in a deal. If a team offered a first rounder for Lynch I’d do it in a heartbeat. But I won’t trade him for a third. No way, just for the sake of trading him.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
by poz on Feb 24, 2010 11:24 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Before that whole $20 thing I would have disagreed. After the that whole thing I think his value went down to the point that it may make more sense to keep him. If the Bills can get a 2nd rounder I would have to highly consider it…..
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I said in a fanshot comments section just now and I'll repeat here since its relevant
I would probably give up Lynch for one of the three things:
a.) a 1st round pick
b.) a young player with equal upside and equal value in the long term
c.) an early 2nd rounder and a 4th.
A combination of these three I would consider if the deal was right. Perhaps a young, high potential player of lesser value with a 3rd is a possibility. I know some are talking of Red Bryant of the Seahawks as a potential NT. The guy has proven nothing in the NFL but was a great college player. He just hasn’t gotten a chance in this league and hes been in a 4-3 system. The Seahawks also desperately need a RB. If the Hawks are prepared to part with Bryant and their high 3rd rounder for Lynch maybe I would consider it. Granted, I would need more information on Bryant and his current physical condition, scouting reports and what not but I trust Nix to make the proper evaluation in a situation like that.
Lynch for multiple low picks is silly, Lynch for a straight up third is silly.
Again, Lynch for Merriman is a player with similar upside, similar risk, and similar proven he can do it in the NFL qualities. I would love that trade. Bills get a position of need, Chargers get a position of need and Nix has the connection to pull it off.
The deal has to be a good one.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
by poz on Feb 24, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this is where I am poz.
I understand the theory of trading him for sure – makes sense – we have major holes that are more important to fill. that being said – it better be one of your choices
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
I never understood how quickly everyone turned on Marshawn. All the fans complain about how no one wants to be in Buffalo and how the big names and media put down the city and they have a young, stud of a runner who embraces the city and they want to trade him for scraps after one down year. scraps!
unbelievable….
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
He embraces the city with the grill of his car after he runs over pedestrians?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Perception
I never meet or spoke to Marshawn, but the public perception of him is anything but good. That said, if Marshawn can improve this yr. and stay outa trouble why try to trade him? Personally I think Lynch is full of himself, but he’s not running for office, he’s running for yards let’s keep him and let him prove himself. Heck were not gonna get anything for him that’s worth the investment the bill’s made.
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair, it was a canadian he ran over, which is fine with me
by quantumuprising on Feb 24, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
LOL...
Even though I love Canadians and never understood the American bully attitude towards our best and longest national friend.
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
wait WHA WHA WHAAAAA
American bully attitude?
I’d say putting out there on the table as an unspoken truth that if you mess with Canada you mess with the U.S. military is pretty far from bullying and a pretty good gesture of neighborly love. Everyone in the world knows if you even breath the wrong way at Canada you are getting a fist full of good ole American might.
My older brother was always bigger and stronger than me and growing up he would clearly use that strength to tease me. But at the end of the day if anyone of his friends even tried to shove me he was going to kick their behinds into the ground. Thats just the nature of brotherhood. We treat our Canadian brothers very well and I think they know that.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
That is true
What I meant by the bully attitude is that the American people tend to not know anything about Canada, their leaders, or their people. The majority of Americans dont really appreciate our neighbor to the north, that is all I was sayin’. : )
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
well to be fair
A majority of Americans tend not to know anything about America, their own leaders or their own people hahahaha
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
The majority of Americans dont really appreciate our neighbor to the north, that is all I was sayin’. : )
who says that?????????
iran, iraq, pakistan, north korea etc….. imagine if they were above us?? I LOVE CANADA – STAY UP THERE!!!!!
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
by J2 on Feb 24, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
You’re not still upset about that little incident of August 24th, 1814 are you?
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~Anais Nin
well to be fair – I am one of the ones who wasn’t opposed to trading him. I get the theory – but it has to be the right price. I thnik you hit the nail on the head.
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
oh I know that you are
I’m just pointing out that we arent exactly trading away a TO locker room cancer. I think the team and the city have been embraced by Marshawn, he just misbehaves. I think a new regime could be good for him.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
That's sounds like a plan
I definitely like the idea of this trade, if Nix could pull it off I would be well pleased ;-)
Old man strenght
has to be respected. I think Nix could be a good negotiator.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Nothing less than a 1st
I agree with everything you said Brian. I however feel that the only trade worth making is if we get a 1st in return or the equivalent in a vet trade.
I have little doubt that Gailey believes he can get plenty of good contributions out of Lynch next season
Absolutely!!
And believe me folks, Lynch is probably the happiest guy in the locker room. He knows that Y1 will be the year that Gailey establishes the “run first” identity and I am convinced that Marshawn wants to prove everyone wrong.
Lets be brutally honest here, the single largest failure of the Jauron/Levy era was their mishandlings of the Oline.
Not only was it extremely detrimental to the development of Trent Edwards but it also contributed to Marshawn’s lack of production. Lynch and Jackson are complimentary backs, one fast and nimble to the outside and the other a beast up the middle. Without an Oline, Lynch’s numbers were horrible last year.
Consider: Lynch ran for as many touchdowns as Jackson did last season despite logging three fewer games and 117 fewer rushes
If Chan Gailey’s Bills go 2-14 this season, we won’t be talking about Year 2 of the Nix/Gailey re-build a year from now, we’ll be scouting future coaching candidates. Gailey needs to get off to a good start. Nix needs to get off to a good start.
I could not agree more and I am certain that Lynch knows it as well. He will have a huge year, mark my words.
Especially since Chix seem to be leaning towards fixing the trenches in the first rounds and do not seem to be involved in any of the veteran QB trade talks, I must conclude that they won’t be a pass first team. Add to that the fact that they are switching to a 3-4 Defense, I think they’d want to keep their offense on the field as much as possible and grind out the clock.
Keep Lynch. Draft another back in the later rounds. Let Lynch have a break out year. Then next year, if we still want to trade him we can more return on our investment. Let’s be patient and not sell him short.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
the single largest failure of the Jauron/Levy era was their mishandlings of the Oline.
Not only was it extremely detrimental to the development of Trent Edwards but it also contributed to Marshawn’s lack of production.
Yup, yup, yup
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Not only was it extremely detrimental to the development of Trent Edwards but it also contributed to Marshawn’s lack of production.
Yeah getting arrested and fat had nothing to do with it. It was all Jauron’s fault as usual.
Without an Oline, Lynch’s numbers were horrible last year.
No, missing the first 3 games and then only getting 5-10 carries a game were the main reasons. Let’s not pretend that when Lynch was rushing for 1,000 yards a year the line was great.
If Chan Gailey’s Bills go 2-14 this season, we won’t be talking about Year 2 of the Nix/Gailey re-build a year from now, we’ll be scouting future coaching candidates.
I won’t. Maybe fair-weather fans may be but I wont. I am giving Nix and Gailey a year to install their systems. It is crazy to expect the team to be great after switching both offensive and defensive schemes…crazy.
Let’s be patient and not sell him short.
Or be patient, watch him get arrested again and get nothing for him. If you don’t like getting a 3rd round pick for a guy who you drafted 12th overall how do you like getting nothing?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
It is crazy to expect the team to be great after switching both offensive and defensive schemes…crazy.
i’m excited for this season – I think it’ll be exciting. not for Bills fans cheering for the team – but football fans wanting to see exciting plays. I think the Bills are going to get scored on a ton and it should be great football!
Hello - thanks for reading my signature. It's very interesting. Bye
If you don’t like getting a 3rd round pick for a guy who you drafted 12th overall how do you like getting nothing?
eh, thats not a selling point for me. Considering that its not a forgone conclusion he gets in trouble again I’d rather take the gamble on getting nothing then settling for a third. What has a third gotten this team in the last few years?
Trent Edwards, Chris Ellis, Ashton Youboty, Kevin Everett, Tim Anderson, Angelo Crowell, Coy Wire
I dont need a third for a high upside running back who has proven he can get it done, thank you very much.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Considering that its not a forgone conclusion he gets in trouble again
You love to use history to prove how good he is. You are very quick to point out that he has had two 1,000 yard seasons and a pro-bowl selection to prove how good he is and still can be.
I use his two arrests and the $20 bill thing to prove that he is capable of monumental feats of stupidity and can do it again and quite possibly will.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
come on eric
your reply doesnt change that what I said is correct. I’m not arguing if he quite possibly will get in trouble again, I’m just saying its not a forgone conclusion and that therefore a third round pick is not much more enticing than nothing.
A complete list of the Bills third round picks going back over a decade:
Chris Ellis, Trent Edwards, Ashton Youboty, Kevin Everett, Tim Anderson, Angelo Crowell, Coy Wire, Ron Edwards, Jonas Jennings, Corey Moore, Shawn Bryson, Robert Hicks, Matt Stevens, Damien Covington, Marlo Perry
This is going back to 1993!!!!!!
Third round picks stink. The only picks that have a good chance of working out are 1st and 2nd rounders and after that it is complete luck if you find a suitable player let alone a rising star. You act like getting a third is investing in the future when dumping Marshawn is giving up on it.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
You can’t draft scared and did Buddy Nix make any of those picks?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
the point is not drafting scared
the point is not about Buddy Nix. Those 3rd picks span multiple GMs, multiple coaches and mutliple regimes with different needs.
The point is third round picks are rarely value picks based on this teams history. Obviously good players come out of the third round but it would seem like its not very often. Marshawn and his potential is worth nothing less than a 2nd rounder and an early one at that, supplemented by another later pick. 3rd round and down is too much of a gamble.
No one isnt getting your dependability point, we just dont think a 3rd and down is worth dumping his potential to stay out of trouble to avoid getting nothing. Value wise, getting nothing is worth the risk if the other option is a 3rd.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Then why do we bother drafting after round 2? Lets just deal all of our later picks and call it a win.
No one isnt getting your dependability point,
Have you read some of the comments in this thread? Don’t tell me how young or good he is, or how this team needs two good backs. I know all that. I am more concerned about that Bills covering their back sides when/if Marshawn messes up again.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Then why do we bother drafting after round 2?
Again, there is a small chance you find a gem and teams needs to fill out depth in an affordable manner to remain under the cap. The round 3 and down point is very relevant to Marshawn because he is more valuable than the small chance of finding a gem. That doesnt mean I’m saying the other rounds are useless.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Again, I have said I would want at the very least a high 3rd rounder. I wouldn’t want less for him at this point.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
oh i know
I’m just responding to your 3rd or nothing point. Because honestly, I’ll take nothing and gamble with Marshawn. As you and I noted above, we aren’t going to get anything good for him.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
if he messes-up again
who really cares? So he sits a year and doesn’t get paid. He still owes us that year on his contract. He stands to loose way more than us. Because he is now RB2, it affords us a lot more flexibility. There’s always FA RBs available and if we are smart, we draft a guy like Toby Gerhart in the 4th and use him as a FB, he would be a good insurance policy in case Lynch screws up again.
The other important point to consider is the when because if Marshawn screws up but only in Sept or Oct, then the suspension would only occur after the 2010 season – so why are we so in a rush to sell our investment short and lose money? Lynch is worth way more in Buffalo than a 3rd round choice.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Your sig is my response
Nothing left to say… the clock is ticking…
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Feb 24, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I really don’t understand the haste, why some rumblers are so anxious to unload the guy? for a 3-5th rounder?? I think he’s learned his lesson and you don’t. Let’s meet halfway and agree that the odds of him screwing up are 50/50. I personally believe that we should be picking up a guy like Toby Gerhart in the 4th (if he’s still there) or another RB in the 5th. The guys we have behind Lynch are PS guys at best.
Assuming he does not get in trouble:
Let me ask you something Eric, do you think he will have a worse year than last year? Or do you think that Gailey will improve the line and more importantly the running game? I personally think that he could have a great first year under Gailey’s leadership.
Assuming he gets in trouble:
If he gets into trouble before or during the season, we pick up someone from the FA pool, a Dominic Rhodes type of guy (they are a dime a dozen). I think a guy like Gerhart would have impact in his rookie season which is why I’d love to see him get drafted. I think he reminds me of Mike Allstott. Anyways, my point is simply that we are not that much in trouble if Lynch goes off the deep-end.
The advantage of letting Lynch play 2010 in a Bills Uniform is that he could increase his value for next year. BIG QUESTION: If Marshawn Lynch doesn’t get into trouble in 2010 and has a big year (over 1200y and 10+TDs) Do you still want to trade him? His value would skyrocket compared to this year.. And yes the down side to this question is if he were to get into trouble we probably would not be able to trade him anymore and essentially lose out on a 4-5th round pick. I for one prefer to take the chance on him instead of against him.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
to follow up on your answer
there really is absolutely no rush because Marshawn alone garners us minimal returns. But should we have Marshawn and Donte Whitner on the roster DURING the draft they could help us move up a few slots in the first round with our number 9 to get our QB or could help us exchange a third and one of them to move back into the second to get another second rounder. Or be packaged with our second rounder to move back into the first.
The point is, there is absolutely no rush. There is no need to trade Marshawn unless the situation is ideal and if that situation does not present itself Marshawn has more value to this team as a runner than a 3rd round pick.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Or do you think that Gailey will improve the line and more importantly the running game? I personally think that he could have a great first year under Gailey’s leadership.
Well it’s easy to ask that question. Will Lynch improve on the crap numbers that he put up last year? Gee let me think for a second……If he does stay out of trouble and is available to play in all 16 games, that should be almost as easy as breathing.
I have ALWAYS said that this team needs another running back. Regardless of what happens with Lynch. You said it yourself-
(they are a dime a dozen).
Lynch isn’t hard to replace, you yourself are willing to grab some scrub off of the junk pile. Why not do so now when you can get something?
You want to gamble on the fact that Lynch is going to turn it around and you want to get something out of him. I doubt he will and am willing to take less for him now to avoid getting nothing from him later.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Hey
Whats your opinion on C.J. Spiller? will he be around in 2nd when we pick?
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
exactly right!
I think the upside of giving him another chance is way higher that what we could get if we traded him now. And yes, I am willing to gamble the little bit that we could get now in the hopes of that much bigger upside. If I am wrong, then I am willing to lose a 3-4th round pick, yes absolutely.
Eric, I fully understand your point. You don’t trust him and you are not willing to risk a 3rd or 4th round pick in fear that if he does indeed screw-up again, then we’d have to cut him without any compensation at all. My question for you Eric, if we were to trade him away for a 3rd or 4th and then he has 2-4 monster years somewhere else, would you still feel the same way the next time a similar situation would present itself?
And I fully understand your perspective on this, actually when you look at the last two bozos that we ran out of town, McGahee & Henri, each of them had 1 good 1200y season since and have done nothing after. So the question is if a 1200y season is worth giving up a 3rd or 4th round pick? I’m not sure it is.
Still, I don’t think Marshawn is the same type of individual. I know he REALLY screwed up bad with the hit & run and then the gun thing was really poor judgement on his part once again but the $20 thing was a joke, I can’t believe that story ever got any traction at all, c’mon the guy is a millionaire and he’d risk his reputation for $20 bucks?? Marshawn is a good kid deep down and I think he’s learned his lesson. If the cost for giving him another chance is only a 3rd or 4th then I think it’s worth it. If the cost is a 1-2nd round pick, then good luck with your next team buddy!
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Joke?
What I’ve read about fans encounter with Marshawn it was anything but funny for the fan. More like being verbally abused by your so-called hero. If story’s anywhere near true Marshawn needs a heavy dose of humility.
by buffalobacker on Feb 25, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
first – I have always said that I would require at least a high 3rd round pick (top ten of the 3rd round). I wouldn’t deal him for less.
second – if Lynch screws up the Bills aren’t losing a 3rd or 4th rounder as you say, they are losing the 12th overall pick of 2007. I am talking about getting something in return from THAT investment.
third – Would I feel the same way next time? That is hard to say. It depends on the crimes in which the player we are talking about got accused of. I like to look at each situation on it’s own merits. I probably would however.
fourth – whether you believe the accusations against him in that $20 bill thing or not is irrelevant in my opinion. The Chief of Police’s wife publicly accused him. If the charges are true…he’s a moron. If they are false…he has high ranking police officials and their families making up stuff about him in an attempt to discredit and possibly get him in trouble. Which is better?
fifth –
Marshawn is a good kid deep down and I think he’s learned his lesson.
I have never met or talked to him at all. I have no way of knowing if that is even close to true. Unless you have, you have no way of knowing if that is true either. I go by his past actions and those do not paint him in the good light that you do.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
second – if Lynch screws up the Bills aren’t losing a 3rd or 4th rounder as you say, they are losing the 12th overall pick of 2007. I am talking about getting something in return from THAT investment.
At this point we’ve lost the 12th, he now is the backup to Freddy. What we are talking about is the 3-4 rounder that we could supposedly get for him this year.
As for the good kid deep down comments, I have no clue – that’s what I’d like to think. What I do know is that he can be a beast of a runner and I don’t want to give that up so easily. On a sidenote, I heard the other day that Sydney Crosby went to live with Mario Lemieux’ family because Mario wanted to keep his meal ticket out of trouble and help guide him into the NHL. I heard that Crosby still lives at the Lemieux’s to this day. I wish NFL teams did a better job of fostering the new rookies into the NFL. I think young guys that come from hard backgrounds like Marshawn, have a lot of bad influences on them from their previous lives. Finding a way to do what Mario did with Crosby in the NFL would go a long way to improving our sport. It’s really a shame because a lot of these kids have tremendous talent and they just let the money get to their heads. Someone needs to shield them from their bad influence buddies trying to get-in on the action.
For example, maybe a fair chunk of the rookie salaries could be put into a trust that unlocks after 2 years if the athlete does not get into any trouble. Maybe teams can house their rookies and chaperon them for the first year or two? Anything that can help guide these young men through the right path. All I know is that giving them millions up front without any restrictions or strings attached is a recipe for disaster and we see it all the time. Sorry for the lenght of this reply, I just feel strongly about this problem.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
At this point we’ve lost the 12th, he now is the backup to Freddy. What we are talking about is the 3-4 rounder that we could supposedly get for him this year.
So 3 years after he was drafted we could hypothetically have nothing or a 3rd rounder. I know which I would rather have.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
That’s not what I said at all. We keep him and he has a monster year, we have a pro-bowl RB, what’s wrong with that? So you prefer a 3rd rounder instead of a pro-bowl RB?
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
I prefer a pro-bowl RB. But can you guarantee me that Marshawn takes his smart pills and stays out of trouble? No you can’t. I will take the sure thing over the unknown.
That has been my point all along that others continue to miss.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Can you guarantee that he’s going to screw up? No you can’t
Sorry but I think the sure thing is Lynch having a big year. Even now, we’re hearing Gailey praise Marshawn. I think a new staff will do him a lot of good. You can believe what ever you want.
I think we’ve reached a point where we probably both can agree to disagree.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
If you want to trust that the two time arrestee will stay out of trouble then yes agree to disagree.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Yes in fact I do. if the cost of that trust is only a 3rd or 4th, it’s worth the leap of faith because the upside is far greater.
Yesterday I was listening to Chan Gailey speak of Marshawn and it is exactly as I thought, Gailey will give this guy another chance because he seems to realize the upside. I can see Gailey turning Marshawn’s career around, which would be great for Marshawn, great for the team and great for the fans!
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
HAHAHAHAHAHA
You still don’t get it. But that is okay.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I have said it 857 times by now…what is one more?
It isn’t about what Marshawn will or could do on the field. It is about whether or not he WILL make it to the field. History is on my side when I say he probably won’t. You are crossing your fingers and hoping.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
History is on my side when I say he probably won’t
Do you know of any site with historical data to back this up? I’m not saying its wrong but I am not so sure that the 3rd strike is as automatic as you seem to think. Unfortunately I do not have any concrete evidence & data to backup my position so if you know of any site that keeps records of players with altercations with the NFL, I’d like to go see it.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Lets say that he gets pulled over and arrested for DUI. If he were Jarius Byrd, he wouldn’t face any real suspension from the NFL. Since he is Marshawn Lynch with two strikes against him, maybe he doesn’t lose the whole year, but 8 games anyway. Is that better? Really?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Thats not what I asked Eric, you said that history was on your side and I am intrigued by those stats.
I know the margin of error for him is very slim. As for the example you used, I would hope that they’d give him a 1y prison term if he got caught for a DUI, after the moronic thing he did last year to that poor woman, he better never get behind the wheel under the influence EVER again. With the money he has, he can afford a driver/bodyguard who could handle the driving home part.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Because he left the scene they were never able to prove he was DUI. He doesn’t have that on his arrest record, just one moving violation for hitting her.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 27, 2010 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
He obviously was DUI and driving away and trying to deny it was just simply cowardice, immaturity and total lack of judgement.
The gun in the car thing was once again immaturity and total lack of judgement. Now maybe he wasn’t aware, who knows? All I do know is that he must stop hanging with those hoodlum friends of his.
I want to give him one last chance but only if he becomes a model citizen. I certainly am not condoning his idiotic immature, irresponsible and criminal behavior. He should realize the extent of what he did and more importantly what could have happened to that woman and feel guilty and more importantly lucky to have another chance.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Keysh67
I believe the players do have counseling, mentoring etc.. programs to help these newly rich players to adjust to their new status. It’s up to player whether they take the advice or not. The more you defend his actions, the more I grow less fond of Marshawn, as a person. I just think they’re put on a pedestal that they have’nt even earned. Trust me I’d love to have the "problems " these young guy’s have to deal with. Too much money, girls etc… Poor guy’s !
by buffalobacker on Feb 25, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not really a “formal” thing, but I remember hearing how McKelvin practically lived at Whitner’s house during his first year. Just a side note.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
I know. Its great that you bring this up because a few days ago I published a fanpost about Whitner being a bust and I forgot to give him credit for his leadership qualities.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Yeah. The things that Whitner is really good at tend not to be things that are blatantly obvious. He’s a good leader. He’s one of the smartest players on the field pre-snap. I want him to succeed. I just don’t know exactly what he needs to do in order to take that next step. Hopefully the new coaches will have a good idea.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Hey if rumors are true that we can use him and a late round pick to get Cambell into Buffalo, then I’ll really become a big Whitner fan. I really like Cambell, he’s a veteran that would be perfect for Gailey’s style of offense.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
I’m really on the fence about Jason Campbell. To me, it all depends on what our plan is going forward. If he fits what Gailey’s overall plan is and will be a stop-gap for a few years while we develop a later round QB, cool, make it happen.
If he’s just another body to “battle it out”, I don’t know if that’s so smart.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 26, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
LOL. Rec’d.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 24, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Oh Good
I’m giving moderator a good laugh! Enjoy, I’ll be here all week! Got it now he’s a definite first rounder. Here’s another LOL, I’d consider taking him at #9
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Lets be brutally honest here, the single largest failure of the Jauron/Levy era was their mishandlings of the Oline.
And Donahoe era.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 24, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Questioning Lynche's Desire
IMO Lynch’s most impressive year was his rookie campaign. It seemed like everytime he touched the ball he would hit the hole as hard (as little as a hole there was) as he could, WITHOUT DANCING OR HESITATION. He has sustained a few injuries in his short career, and it to me it seems like he’s falling down a little bit easier.
If he brings back the beast mode mentality and grows up then I’d be all for it.
Brian, I am in need of some clarification, please
“Chan Gailey’s Bills go 2-14 this season, we won’t be talking about Year 2 of the Nix/Gailey re-build a year from now, we’ll be scouting future coaching candidates. Gailey needs to get off to a good start. Nix needs to get off to a good start.”
Does this mean, that we the fans will be scouting future coaching candidates while Nix/Gailey begin year 2, or that Nix/Gailey will be fired before reaching year 2?
I realize it is only 3 somewhat off-topic sentences in your article, but I find it most interesting (if indeed you think Gailey/Nix would be fired for going 2-14 this season).
Thanks in advance.
We need Lynch for depth! If we trade hime, won’t we just have to use that pick on a RB?
"This is what happens Larry!, This is what happens! "-Walter Sobchak
by BigEasyBillsKrewe on Feb 24, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
we should anyway
We should draft toby Gerhart and convert him to FB (He reminds me so much of Mike Allstot)
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
Agreed.....it was a well written article, except for this part
To say this
All of this is not to say that Lynch is untradeable. I’d be hard-pressed to name three such Bills, and none of them are Lynch.
then
If Chan Gailey’s Bills go 2-14 this season, we won’t be talking about Year 2 of the Nix/Gailey re-build a year from now, we’ll be scouting future coaching candidates.
On a team so full of holes and lacking talent, to think that a new GM would only give his hand picked HC one season is ridiculous! Ralph is not Dan Snyder. Gailey will get the customary 3 years…..unless he decides to quit before then.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Need
We need depth partly because of him, it would seem wise to get some “insurance” for that position. We have more needs than picks….
Are you a good witch or a bad witch?
Absolutely agreed that he still valuable to the team, there are too many other holes to fill, won’t garner a worthy draft pick in a trade, etc. etc.
To me the biggest factor—and most difficult to assess— about what to do with Lynch is whether OBD believes he will keep his nose clean. If not, he’s of zero value in 2010 as we’ll probably be looking at a year suspension. His meeting with Chan and his behavior leading up to draft day. will be two important data points in this assessment. Maybe the Bills should hire a PI to infiltrate the Lynch posse to report on his behavior…as this is the key question.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Maybe the Bills should hire a PI to infiltrate the Lynch posse to report on his behavior
They already tried that but the Lynch posse is a tight crew that can smell rats. Who do you think the lady was that he “accidentally” ran over? Thats right, the PI!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Well
If that’s true , then the Bill’s do have a problem child that probably will get in trouble again. It seems your making sirec’s point with that info…
by buffalobacker on Feb 24, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
People bring up that they don’t understand the fans dumping on Lynch after one down year, I don’t know if you guys say him in ‘08 but he was dancing just as much as he was in ’09. It is hard to judge one player on O when the entire O is devoid of true talent, but I watched a lot of Cardinals games and Bills games, and Beanie Wells is a lot like Lynch in terms of down hill power running, but when I see Wells play he hits the whole hard, and you almost never see him hesitate or dance – Lynch has started to do that and it has been going on for 2 yrs now. Perhaps the coaches just need to settle him down and get him back to knocking that hole, but if they don’t then he will NEVER be that 1,000 yard rusher he once was
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
the Cardinals have Russ Grimm coaching the o-line
and they have kept the same starters together. Our QBs and RBs will continue to get sacked and continue to dance so long as the merry go round on the o-line continues. O-line is the most important place to have continuity. communication and understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the guys next to you is critical for success on the line – those factors can make average o-lines good. Again this year we are looking at almost 3 new starters. Until we have our unit we won’t have a line and we cant blame backs for dancing.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
What would you think of this?
With Freddy Jackson and Marshawn Lynch we have two good power backs but no home run hitter. What if we traded Marshawn to a team like the Eagles who now need a second back for a 3rd and 5th or 6th this year and actively pursued a guy like Darren Sproles who I believe is going to be a free agent. With him we would have a legitemate home run threat as well as good punt returner in case we end up trading or releasing Roscoe Parrish.
I don’t dislike the logic, but there’s no way Sproles leaves with Tomlinson getting cut. Another similar type back is a solid idea though. The problem is the limited FA options this year.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Feb 25, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Entirely agree on the whole article.
Lynch has way more value to us then any 3rd round pick could right now. And thats just assuming that we could get a third rounder for him, which is a long shot in the first place.
So unless we get a deal that bolws us away I’d rather keep Lynch as part of a very strong 1-2 punch. Especially considering Chan Gailey’s run-to-throw plan on offense. We will need both Lynch and Jackson to pull that off properly.
The more I see, the les I know.
by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:46 PM EST reply actions
I love this article.
Without saying “ML must stay,” or “ML must be traded,” it presents the circumstances of the situation in an unbiased manner.
If someone offers a 2nd rounder for him, I will be stunned, sedated, and stupefied.
a.k.a. Undee
Nice Article
I´m all about keeping Marshawn on the team, the guy has a bunch of talent and we need all the talent we can have.
A speedy RB late in the draft wouldn´t hurt
Is it worth keeping him?
with all the available backs now LT and BW would it be better to get some picks for Lynch and sign one of them to an incentive based contract. In my opionion we need alot of help the more picks the better I would like a guy like sproles for a speed threat over either of them but LT or BW would do just as much for us as Lynch in a back up role and we would have more options on draft day.
Seriously?
If Chan Gailey’s Bills go 2-14 this season, we won’t be talking about Year 2 of the Nix/Gailey re-build a year from now, we’ll be scouting future coaching candidates.
We give coaches one year now? OMG, please don’t tell me that. We are changing the offense and defense, Nix/Gailey need more than one year regardless of the outcome in 2010 (unless its 0-16, then you get dismissed on principal alone).
by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yes, I was wondering about this as well.
Was this intended to mean the fans won’t take a 2-14 season and will want another Coach/GM already, or Nix/Gailey would be fired if they went 2-14?
by StroudFanClub on Feb 24, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Spectrum between win-now and throw-away...
When it develops into “2010 is a throwaway year,” that’s where I have a problem. It’s not. Not even close.
While I wouldn’t say it’s a “throw-away season,” fan expectations are rightfully lowered. A poor record seems almost presumed by the fanbase.
Unfortunately, this offense has been so poor for so long, you have to give any coaching staff the benefit of the doubt beyond 1 season. You have to give them the ability to get “their” personell on the field implementing their plan before you can condemn it. This goes hand-in-hand with most rebuilds – especially this type of dramatic rebuild, and we’ve heard it time and time again. We’re entirely too familiar with that to be naive about it going into this one.
I tend to think it has a lot to do with people being unwilling to give up on the “one piece away” feeling this team had surrounding it in ’08.
Why should'nt they
Be held accountable for wins/losses? I certainly would be gone from my job if I didn’t live up to expectations. This is the NFL [Not For Long].
Nor Cal---Problems with Lynch
Here’s a link from Pro Football Weekly…
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/02/05/lynchs-days-in-buffalo-may-be-numbered
I don’t see the Bills getting rid of Lynch only to have to possibly replace him with a rookie. I can see them taking a scat back type of back to complement Jackson and Lynch. As far as drafting a RB with the no#2 pick I would rather see them go WR with Demaryius Thomas from Georgia Tech if they decide to go for a skilled position.
'To get something you never had,
you have to do something you never did.'
I say we trade Lynch for Vick straight up, then find a bruiser type running back on the free agent market to compliment Freddy. Then we have a Qb for the present and can give a rookie draft pick time to learn instead of feeding him to the wolves. Thee need to think about the future for once and not be content to go 7-9 every freakin year.
Just stopping in to rec Brian's article
Now where did I put that brick? =P
Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!
by Run Thurmal Run! on Feb 24, 2010 5:56 PM EST reply actions
Agreed
I’m for keeping Lynch for many of the same reasons outlined in the article and comments above: I don’t think the compensation Buffalo would receive for Lynch right now is worth his value, I don’t like the additional hole trading him would create, I don’t like giving up on one of our (only?) young Pro Bowl players after one bad season, and I know for certain that Fred Jackson (by himself) is capable of being the long term answer (and believe me, I’m a a fan of his)…addition by not subtracting (young Pro Bowl talents).
Just say no...to Trent Edwards at QB.
I guess I'm in the minority
that thinks Lynch has “star” ability. I just don’t think you give up on that kind of talent based on one bad year (personally and professionally). That’s why I don’t think the argument is just about keep Lynch for depth, It’s also about keeping someone that could be a force, and that’s not just speculation, we’ve seen long glimpses.
He Does if stars align
But what pushes him to the fore front of trading is his possible suspension, his not starting, and his seemingly unwillingness or inability to stay outa trouble. Like him or not I think he’s staying so he is depth. With that I’d hope OBD drafts his replacement this year. We could use another RB, Fred is’nt a spring chicken…Oh and I think Lynch will get his touches, its up to him at that point.
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