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Bills will need time to make transition to 3-4

The Buffalo Bills have named George Edwards their defensive coordinator, and upon his hiring, Edwards told BuffaloBills.com that he'd start the team out with a 3-4 look - tailored to personnel strengths, of course - and move from there.

A little over a week ago, Buffalo Rumblings scout Der Jaeger took time out of his schedule to explain the basics of the 3-4 Over defense - currently employed by teams like Arizona and Dallas. In my opinion, this is the best 3-4 alignment that Edwards can possibly choose to employ in 2010 as the Bills begin a rather lengthy process of overhauling their defensive personnel.

Star-divide

The beauty of this scheme is that you don't need the massive, two-gap, blubbery nose tackle in the middle to make it work. The alignment focuses on employing lighter, quicker, one-gap linemen and bigger, faster linebackers behind them to make it work, as illustrated in the photo above the fold. Players would be asked to beat blockers to spots and maintain gaps, rather than overcome multiple blockers via brute strength and bulk.

Buffalo doesn't have a lineman that can play the traditional two-gap nose tackle role. What they do have are a bunch of guys stout enough and athletic enough to play one gap pretty well. A defensive line of Kyle Williams, Marcus Stroud and Spencer Johnson could absolutely handle the one-gap responsibilities of this defense as starters, and they can bring in lighter guys to rush the passer on obvious passing downs.

Aaron Schobel, should he decide to return rather than retire, would play an outside linebacker spot (and put his hand on the ground on third downs, in all likelihood), as would 2009 first-round pick Aaron Maybin. Paul Posluszny and Kawika Mitchell would be capable of handling the inside linebacker spots. All can handle one gap as well.

The real beauty of this scheme insofar as it relates to Buffalo's current personnel, however, is the fact that purely from an alignment standpoint, it's easy to disguise your looks. Buffalo's not-so-great pass rush could use a little creativity to it, and as far as pass-rushing schemes go, this is one of the best in the business. This is a defense that can be very multiple, and very tricky to diagnose where the pass rush is coming from. It's also easy to have an edge rusher put his hand on the ground; suddenly, you're back in a 4-3. This is the type of hybrid look that Edwards seems to be leaning toward, and the base of the system is the 3-4.

You'll see Buffalo's secondary play a bit more matchup football and a significant amount of man coverage. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as the pass rush gets home and Jairus Byrd is still playing centerfield to eat up those poorly thrown passes. This is a scheme that you can run zone behind as well, and obviously, Buffalo's linebackers and defensive backs are used to that.

Where Buffalo would lack, first and foremost, would be depth. The Bills will need a ton of depth brought in. They'd need to bring in prospects along the defensive line, at linebacker, and pass rushing specialists. Basically, they have enough to barely field a starting unit, and it'll be a little rough around the edges to start. The defense also has weaknesses, too; you're still light up front, so power rushing offenses can run on this defense, and gap integrity is still the most critical aspect of fielding a good run defense. (That's not to say it isn't in other schemes, but I think you get the point.)

The bottom line is this: Buffalo's transition to a 3-4 defense - if, in fact, the traditional 3-4 defense with two-gap linemen is Edwards' ultimate goal - will be a slow one. Edwards will tailor scheme to his personnel at first, and he can do so while keeping the 3-4 look as his base package. Once the Bills get situated - and, again, bring in a ton of front seven depth, which I cannot emphasize enough - they'll be able to run that hybrid look. This initial look also buys them a little time to import the type of athlete they'll need up front, and replace some of the older players (Schobel, Stroud) they'll be square-pegging into the scheme.

Buffalo needs to get bigger, faster and stronger in their front seven regardless of what scheme they run. That's still a priority. But Edwards has a shot to put a nice, hard-to-diagnose package together with a solid amount of personnel already here. This doesn't have to be a permanent move, but it's the best move for the 2010 Buffalo Bills.

As far as I can tell, Edwards has never run the 3-4 Over, but carrying 3-4 and 4-3 principles, I have doubts that he'd find it difficult to piece together.

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Oh, and yes – I’ve had this story in my back pocket for a while now. Just had to add in the “George Edwards” and the “Edwards” stuff. :)

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by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

Just for sh*ts and giggles...

can I read the story you had written in case Bill Cowher took the head coach position? : )

You are so well prepared I bet you even had a Chan Gailey story ready, on the off chance that the Bills dug him up from under his rock, didn’t you? Kudos!

by StroudFanClub on Feb 4, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

No, no, I did not have a Chan Gailey article written. Nor did I have a Bill Cowher article written. Pretty much just this one. :)

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by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, it's still admirable you could have written this article & have it apply so well to the situation.

Was there ever a story you wrote in advance of something but the events after you writing it made it completely irrelevant?

For example, did you have a “Why the Bills were never interested in signing TO” article ready for when TO was cut loose from Dallas….and just waiting for some other team to sign him?

This interests me for some reason…anyone else?

by StroudFanClub on Feb 4, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

its like a what if kind of deal

Brians articles that were never posted represent an alternative future for the Bills that could have been…

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Turn that Donkey Wheel !!!

by XtrmeCarnage82 on Feb 4, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, absolutely. The most recent example was “Why Buffalo won’t fire Dick Jauron until January 4.”

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I had two GM profiles written before the Buddy Nix hire kinda made those pointless.

by MattRichWarren on Feb 7, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully this will bring Matt back from the ledge

Nice article Brian

I have a feeling this is probably how we’ll start the transition, but eventually it wouldn’t surprise me if the big, fat NT makes an appearance. I’d like the versatility of being able to run both types of 3-4 D’s…which leads right into your point about depth. We need much, much more of it, and better depth players overall.

It’ll take time, but if built right, it should be worth it.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Feb 4, 2010 3:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

this would be the year

to be picking in the top 3-5 to get one of the FAT NT’s! Or 2006! I still cannot believe we took Donte Whitner. It’s a dream that I just can’t snap out with that one! I got sidetracked…but ok, I’m completely on board 100%. I think this transition will take time, but who the hell cares. It’s not like we are close to anything “working.” We are only a QB, 5 OT, 2 WR, 2 TE, FB, 3 DL, 4 LB, 2 S, and a FG kicker away from being good again. (insert sarcasm, but not really here)

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Feb 4, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

None of the NTs are considered top 5. Dan Williams should be available at 9, but might be a reach, and Terrance Cody could fall to you in the 2nd if he shows up fat at the combine. After that there is I belive Torrell Troup and one other guy whos name escapes me who could work themselves into being late 3rd/early 4th round picks at NT.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Feb 4, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I see us going after Troupe in the third.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't be surprised

if Terrence Cody is available in the second round. And don’t be surprised if we grab him.

Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!

by Run Thurmal Run! on Feb 4, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind that pick

In fact I wouldn’t mind McClain in Rd 1 and Cody in Rd 2. Let the Tide Roll into Buffalo.

by S2 on Feb 4, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what our 1st rd pick is for... ;)

I’d be a little bit surprised if we drafted McClain in the first round. Chan knows the pressure is on the offense to improve. There’s enough talent in this draft to wait on the defense until the 2nd round.

Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!

by Run Thurmal Run! on Feb 4, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

One "high profile" RFA this year?

With all the youth the Bills have on the O-Line, I’d prefer that they take a solid run at a quality RFA LT (MacNeill?) and let the the incumbents compete for the remaining starting and back-up spots. That would afford the Bills the freedom to go McClain in round 1 and best-NT-available (Cody?) in round 2.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. ~Yogi Berra

by Bogeyman on Feb 5, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

As far as starters go...

we’re going to need a true NT and a SAM ’backer. The odd men out in this move are Kelsay/Denney and Ellison/Nic Harris.

LE Williams/Johnson
NT FA/Draft pick
RE Stroud
LOLB??
LILB Mitchell
RILB Poz
ROLB Schobel/Maybin (can he get to and stay above 250 lbs?)

I say trade back in the 1st Rd to get more picks and in the 10’s-20’s, get Dan Williams at NT

by Rome Billiever on Feb 4, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually Nic Harris might find a much greater role in the Hybrid D. In the hybrid the you idealy have a larger SS that stays closer to the front 7 for run block support and the FS take center feild. Now we already a stud at FS in Byrd. Harris played SS in college and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him regain that role in this type of D. I think that its something that he’s almost taylor suited for.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m thinking Harris is more of a situational pass defense ILB. Pittsbrugh has been doing that effectively for years. It protects against getting exposed by TE’s and backs (a defensive weakness of the 3-4).

by Der Jaeger on Feb 4, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree. Unfortunatly thats the role that I see Poz inhariting if he dosn’t pan out in the 3-4. I see Nic Harris switching between pass defence ILB and run deffence SS. I think that he could be very usefull at both positions as a rotational guy.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure if he has the hips to play SS.

The SS in a 3-4 ideally needs to be a versitile player, not a bigger box safety. The most important job of the 3-4 SS is to cover the TE and scatback. Henry Jones was a great example of this. Polamalu, for all his blitzing and hitting, is most valuable to Pittsburgh in coverage, picking up the slack while the front is blitzing.

by Der Jaeger on Feb 4, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

True enough. And I don’t see Harris doing well if he has to pick up the slack. At this point he just needs to concentrate on getting the current aspects of his game better, not on adding more of them.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Harris would be perfect to bring on 3rd and medium downs...

He is a natural in the box when it comes to tackling and coverage, he gets out of place when he has to cover large areas…he is also not good at sheeding blocks yet…

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

My version...

With a couple of changes:

LE – Williams / Johnson
NT – FA (Franklin?) / Draft (Cody?)
RE – Stroud / Johnson (or Draft?)
LOLB – Mitchell
LILB – Poz
RILB – Draft (McClain?)
ROLB – Schobel / Maybin

I think it’s important to have quality depth for the 3 ‘big boys’ up front. I also agree with others that Mitchell suits the LOLB role. Lastly, I think N.Harris and B.Scott might alternate in depending upon down/distance or opposition personnel sets (ie with skilled/receiver TEs).

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. ~Yogi Berra

by Bogeyman on Feb 5, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

And lets be honest, we were gonna suck next year no matter what allignment we had. So if we were going to eventually make the switch, might as well be now.

And yes it will take time, but with Nix drafting I am certain that the wait will be worth it.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, I think this is only a one to two year stop gap, unless somehow Wilfork gets away without a franchise tag

Were looking a period of drafting someone and building them into a two gap blubber machine.

Nix and Chan, the new Cheech and Chong of the Bills, hopefully they will be as successful in business as they were, and not so much the drug fueled comedy act....

by WABillsfan on Feb 4, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t imagine Wolfork getting away from the Pats. I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one. The entire AFC East will be running a 3-4 next year. There’s no way Wolfork goes to Buffalo. The Pats aren’t that stupid, as much as it kills me to say it.

Schmucks don't make it to the Pro Bowl... except Jason Peters!

by Run Thurmal Run! on Feb 4, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Ledge is strong. As Brian said they have a starting unit. Awesome. It’s a goo transition tool but is going to get gashed against the run for the same reasons the old 4-3 did and is still susceptible to the same problems as the Tampa 2 was – If one player misses his assignment the running back is in the secondary. I don’t see how this is any better than the T2 and that’s where my problem lies. :-)

by MattRichWarren on Feb 7, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

If its Schobel - Poz - Mitchell - Maybin right now...

Who would be the first you’d look to upgrade in the offseason?

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by BillsNYC on Feb 4, 2010 3:49 PM EST reply actions  

has to be Schobel

just because he may not even play this year let alone next.

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel that this change ensures that Schobel will be traded or retire. Just a hunch.

by MarinoTheBill on Feb 4, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Wrong....

Schobel himself said he thinks he is actually a better fit for the 3-4.

"If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?"
~Vince Lombardi~

by Hambone on Feb 4, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

In *this* offseason...

IFF Scobel stays, I’d look to fill the hole(s) first. Next season I’d look to upgrade – after a year in the system, we’d have a much better idea of everyone’s true skill set. So to answer your question, I’d look forward to starting the season with:

Mitchell – Poz – McClain – Schobel/Maybin

Reasoning: I think Mitchell has the build and pass-rush chops for LOLB, Poz can search-and-destroy if he has a thumper/bodyguard next to him, McClain is that thumper/bodyguard and, lastly, neither Schobel or Maybin has played ROLB in a 3-4 (and Maybin is still learning to play in the NFL), so I’d hedge my bet a bit by having them rotate through as they learn the role. (I’d expect that Digi, Palmer, N.Harris, Ellison and a UFA or 2 would compete for the other 3 back-up spots.)

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. ~Yogi Berra

by Bogeyman on Feb 6, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Question though:

Why cant Maybin play ILB. He is only 250, keep him small and fast as lightning, and he could do some good things!

I can do all things through he whom gives me strength. Philippians 4:13

by NCbillsfan12 on Feb 4, 2010 3:59 PM EST reply actions  

ILB’s need to drop into coverage and need to be able to cover TE’s, OLBs can get by on rushing the passer and rushing the runners alone and not need to drop into coverage. Maybin has NEVER played in coverage, so asking it of him now would be a HUGE mistake.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I think McClain is our guy now, he’ll be there for us to pick and is the perfect 3-4 LB

"Tigers love pepper... they hate cinnamon"- The Hangover

by atlantalove on Feb 4, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. And the fact that Mitchell is big enough to play OLB is a bonus too. And makes Schobel expendable and even larger trade bait.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not if any one of those fancy QBs is available, he isn’t.

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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 4, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

key word IF!

"Tigers love pepper... they hate cinnamon"- The Hangover

by atlantalove on Feb 4, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Forget a "fancy" QB...

Clausen and Bradford are late first rounders, I thought you guys were tired of stretching for draft picks…

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Late first rounders? According to who? They will both be gone in the top ten.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

couldn’t agree more. this should be a clear indication that we go defense first round. a stop gap QB would IMO solidify that.

Later Losman!

by rockybillboa on Feb 5, 2010 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Our need at OT is too important to wait until rd2 – unfortunately.

Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...

by keysh67 on Feb 5, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. Okung/Davis/Bulaga or bust!

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL. It cracks me up when I see posts like this. Don’t we kind of need to see what happens in free agency first?

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by Brian Galliford on Feb 5, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

lol, ok your right. If we can sign a tackle then we should use the pick on someone else. But i honestly think that our team would be best served drafting our franchise LT in the first round this year. I really do.

Mind you signing a guy like Matt Light could definatly change my mind in a hurry too,

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I will never trust the Bills to sign a OL player again

after these past 10 years of suffering through the big Langston Walker style signings, I will not be satisfied until they man-up and do what every other team that needs an LT does; draft one in the early 1st round.

by uPitt_BillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

worked well for us with Mike Williams

remember that the best tackle we found all decade was an undrafted tight end. they come from all over the place.

...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...

by JPH on Feb 9, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Couldn't this scheme change

make the Bills active in player for player trades this off-season? We have a lot of 4-3 personnel that other teams would covet. The Giants need DTs badly and Perry Fewell is the defensive coordinator. Im sure he’d love to have one of his best players from last year, Kyle Williams, for a guy like Mathias Kiwanucka who I think would be much more effective in a 3-4 as an OLB. Hes already causing problems in the Giants DE rotation with Osi close to demanding a trade because of playing time between Kiwi, Tuck and Osi. Both are young players who need system changes.

What about Dick Jauron and Bobby April being in Philadelphia? Send them a player for a lineman or something (not named Jason Peters). With our coaching diaspora around the league we should be able to get player-player trades going. Or at least player – pick trades.

Then of course we have the aging veterans we can send to contenders who want to make a run like Stroud, Schobel, or Whitner.

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 4:03 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

well Whitner isn't aging. Well technically he is, we all are, but hes not aging / declining.

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Now what does the #9 look like?

"Be a wuss at home! Be a man on Rumblings!" - Kurupt

by bflo on Feb 4, 2010 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

Still have to imagine it is OT or QB….but this could change the focus of our 2nd and 3rd round picks

by MarinoTheBill on Feb 4, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t be surprised if they go with McClain on the basis of BPA at #9 and then find an OT in the second round or even the third.

by Macktruck on Feb 4, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

we still have to remain focused or we’re going to jump for the new toy and forget our priorities again (man how many times have we done that).

by telka on Feb 4, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Buffalo can go in so many different directions at this point now, that it literally will have to wait until they are on the clock.

Depending on who was chosen ahead of them, I think there is a decent possibility to trade down and aquire more picks, which would really do them well as the new coaching staff will have more of “their guys” as well as add depth.

Thats if their guy at LT or QB has been taken.

And then there is McClain.

So. This response is very little help. My opinion is that whoever they choose that is of the same value as the pick is going to be a good decision.

by BillsfanDan on Feb 4, 2010 4:14 PM EST reply actions  

I say we trade Schobel and draft McClain, aquire a LB via FA or trade

Starters:
Maybin: 6-4 250lbs
Poz: 6-1 238lbs
Mitchell: 6-1 253lbs
McClain 6-4 258lbs

If we get a Joey Porter type player, thats 5 quality starting LB’s, 3 of which can play either inside or outside

I can do all things through he whom gives me strength. Philippians 4:13

by NCbillsfan12 on Feb 4, 2010 4:19 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Porter or Merriman are becoming real possibilities. And while I already know that Brian will come over and say “those guys are too much of big names for Nix to consider them” I’m starting to disagree about both Porter and Merriman. Porter is on the down slide of his career and Merriman hasn’t looked the same since his injury and is in need of a change of scenery. Both have become second tier players in my eyes as well.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

I think Porter and Merriman will be cheaper than people think.

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

So do I thats why I consider them real possibilities.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Porter would be a wasted investment, as I see it. Merriman, sure. I could see him “bouncing back” like Spikes has done.

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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 4, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed...

Porter will do fine for a year or two, but his contract will be too expensive, especially as he continues to age and his production declines. Merriman needs a motivational boost and he is getting one, no one thinks he can play. I think he will be just fine and his contract wont be cheap, but it wont be out of BLo league either. Now, does he want to come here, that is a different question.

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

agree

and then address our zone CBs, our undersized DTs, our undertalented DEs and we are like there, except for any depth. at least we have had a lot of success with injuries in the past. sure there won’t be any problems.

FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie

by Ren Diggity on Feb 4, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

you must be discounting the offense!

Later Losman!

by rockybillboa on Feb 5, 2010 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

our zone CBs

McGee is uber-consistent, Florence surprised the hell out of me this year and was one of the most productive CBs in the league. Leo is coming back and is much better in man than in zone.

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Can Poz put on another 5-7 lbs of muscle?

I know it’s possible, but would it fit his frame without slowing him down? [cough]Marshawn[cough]

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. ~Yogi Berra

by Bogeyman on Feb 6, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

muscle is not slowing BongMode down

If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.

by Joe P. on Feb 6, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Wilfork?

He wants BIG money, if the Bills threw it at him, he may follow it like a big, juicy steak. SO FAT!!!

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Feb 4, 2010 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

and hes a Bills fan.

"Be a wuss at home! Be a man on Rumblings!" - Kurupt

by bflo on Feb 4, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

obviously wasnt a JP Losman fan

but he has already won Super Bowls so it should be all about the money now.

Can’t Wilfork get the franchise tag though?

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

look what the franchise tag did for cassel.

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Feb 4, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Guys – please don’t make me say it ‘til I’m blue in the face. Buffalo will not be “throwing big money” at anyone. :)

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, we won’t make you say it, but would typing it still make you blue in the face?

by bluecollarbuffalo on Feb 4, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

so we’ll never again see a Derrick Dockery deal, Brian?

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Feb 4, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I would certainly hope not.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Forget it Brian. Every guy who is rumored to be available will pined for on this site. Talking sense is pointless.

No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.

by sireric on Feb 4, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed....we need Ralph to start talking dollars :-)

If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.

by Joe P. on Feb 4, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d rather suffer a mediocre NT than have to watch that SOB 16 times a year.

Buffalo Rumblings Premiere League 2009 Champion

"Am I a hero? I really can't say, but yes - I am." --Michael Scott

MP3 recommendation of the week: Pearl Jam - Unthought Known

by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 4, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

i wouldn't.

he’d be a big part in helping us watch the team 19 times a year anyway..

...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...

by JPH on Feb 4, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Put this up on the Edwards pot, but it bares repeating here.

I disagree with most that Williams is going to be ineffective as a 3-4 DE. Yes his arms are short, but his penetratic speed compensates for that. I think that if we us him in a Arizona Hybrid type deffence and put him in the same 1 gap role that Darnell Dockett has with the Cards that Williams would do VERY well for us.

Basicly it all depends on the type of 3-4 that we use. A traditional 3-4 would be a DISASTER for us. Luckily I don’t see Edwards being stupid enough to try to do that. And Arizona Hybrid D with Stroud and Williams as 1 gap DE’s, Schobel and Maybin as rushing OLB’s and Mitchell and Poz in the middle and all we are really missing is a NT (yes I know, HUGE need and i agree) and another OLB to go opposite Schobel/Maybin. We really wouldn’t be that far off.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:15 PM EST reply actions  

you need to submit that penetratic thingy to merriam websters for review.

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Feb 4, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

i actually googled it thinking I must have a vocabulary deficit. :)

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Feb 4, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

LMAO actually if your looking for an explination, I’m dyslexic, so there ;-)

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry to hear that. I’d already given you a pass for being Frenchcanuckien.

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Feb 4, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

lol, well theres that too. It’s more the dyslexia, although it’s not a big problem for me anymore. I may be french, but I’ve been speaking english since I was 5 and no longer have an accent. Add the fact that english is infinatly easier to write than french, and I’ve pretty much got no more excuses.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Merriman

Is by far the most legitimate possibility because of the ties that Gailey has to SD. If we could get Merriman then our starting LB core (if we do trade schobel for picks which I really hope we do) could be merriman, mitchell, poz, maybin. Then we get our OT and QB in the draft, then the rest of the picks can be put to the defense. Maybe Torrell Troup for our NT, then some 2nd tier D tackles that would fit into the scheme with some later picks. We need to fill at least 2 key needs through FA, then the rest of it seems realistic…

by BMWdrummerman777 on Feb 4, 2010 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

I think you mean Nix's ties to SD

but also remember our DC has close ties to Joey Porter too. I really think we get either Porter or Merriman.

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

How about getting both? :-D

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Therefore giving time for Maybin to properly train and mature as an 3-4 OLB before we throw him to the lions.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

And yes, i know, i know. Go back to smoking with Marshawn. I know.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

well i dont think its so much its impossible

in that I’d just want to get Maybin full time starter reps while this team isnt ready to win yet. Merriman and Maybin sign me up! Even Porter for a season or two opposite him is ok. But Merriman is ideal

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 4, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. I’d much rather have Merriman than Porter, even if he is going to be more expensive.

Besides i see Porter as the kind of egomaniac that will stay on the market for 4 months because he greatly over-values himself.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

…and sucks when not facing Jason Peters.

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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 4, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

i'll wait till OTA

and training camp until i say that i want maybin taking first team reps. green is an understatement based on last years performance. oh ya, now change up schemes completely…. cue another year of maybin on S T

Later Losman!

by rockybillboa on Feb 5, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sold, but...

Why do they call this defense the 3-4 Over

And let’s say Maybin isn’t quite ready to learn a new position…you didn’t mention Kelsay at all…could he be capable of manning one of the OLB spots? And what about Chris Ellis at OLB, if he isn’t the complete bust most of suspect he is?

I don’t think our depth is as bad as you state here, Brian. Ellison is still a capable reserve, as is Bryan Scott.

That said, I love the transition plan to the conventional 3-4. In 2011 we can target the mammoth run-stuffer early in the draft.

The Missing Link in the Chan Gang

by ChipShot on Feb 4, 2010 6:21 PM EST reply actions  

Chris Kelsay and Chris Ellis are not nearly athletic enough to handle the edge responsibilities of the outside ‘backers in this scheme. They’d be relegated to reserve roles where they moonlight as pass-rushing down linemen on passing downs – if they stick around at all.

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by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Brian

Why was my post earlier removed? It didn’t have anything offensive in it.

by The Irishman on Feb 4, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Email me.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Heh, I like the "if they stick around at all" line

You know their toast and K will be partying like its the millennium all over again

Nix and Chan, the new Cheech and Chong of the Bills, hopefully they will be as successful in business as they were, and not so much the drug fueled comedy act....

by WABillsfan on Feb 4, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

FA is still the key

And yeah if we could get merriman that would be clutch. Also I think that if were serious about getting a big fat NT this would be the year to do it because the draft is unusually deep at that position. But I would say that FA is the key, if we can address even one of our main needs that would be clutch. Especially if its a rushing LB because then the draft allows us to go OT, QB, NT, DT, LB, then BPA from there. I think another solid WR or a speed back would be appropriate. Try to scoop up a playmaker late in the draft a la Naaman Roosevelt anyone??

by BMWdrummerman777 on Feb 4, 2010 7:14 PM EST reply actions  

I feel like we can finally

Make some more informed speculations. We now know we are going to be palying some form of a 3-4. We know are coaching staff. I feel pretty confident that we know what we need for this team.

by The Irishman on Feb 4, 2010 7:36 PM EST reply actions  

Ha! Wouldn’t it be something if we could get Edwards on as a regular reader. I mean sure we’re only fans, but there is the occasional good idea that pops up here. Especially from our writting staff.

by CanadianBillsFan on Feb 4, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

very nice article.

too bad that we will need time, AND about 9 starters on defense. no one on our team has the true skillset required to transition into the role. even mcgee is a question mark as a true man corner at this point. better draft real well for 2 or 3 years before we think there will be much of a defense in buffalo. i just wish we didn’t have to take 7 steps backwards and not address the side of the ball that’s been the true consistant issue for multiple years. which isn’t the defense. (psssst…. for the slow ones i mean its the OFFENSE that has been consistantly weak)

FS Jairus Byrd- Pro Bowl Rookie

by Ren Diggity on Feb 4, 2010 8:01 PM EST reply actions  

Not sure of the value in this article...

Even though it is put together with the thought process of how to make a 3-4 defense out of our personnel, I am not sure it really matters considering I am sure George Edwards or Chan Gailey will be taking notes on this scheme… Like labill says… you might as well email it to Edwards.. Rec’d.

Not one of us really know what the defense will look like or be like until OTA’s, Training Camp and/or preseason.

My guess is our whole way we go about playing football will be a lot different that what we have seen in the past 4 years. A new coaching staff with potentially a lot of new players and new QB’s will allow for a lot of speculation like this post, but until we see it on the field, no one can say for sure…

Sorry Brian but I don’t think anyone at OBD will care (however, I am sure Fans will have our input as we ALWAYS DO)

by dabillsr1 on Feb 4, 2010 8:03 PM EST reply actions  

??? I don’t write for the people in the organization. They are not the audience, and never have been.

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by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

rec;d

Brian writes for the people!

"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny

by poz on Feb 5, 2010 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah...what?

...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...

by JPH on Feb 4, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

disgruntled jets fan in hiding?

Later Losman!

by rockybillboa on Feb 5, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

the title clearly states

we’re in a transition period. not “how to sew without a needle”

good read, keep it comin.

Later Losman!

by rockybillboa on Feb 5, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I really don’t like it when people say “I don’t see how this article matters.” I had people say that to me about Hall of Fame stuff I wrote last year profiling the guys on the finalist list. It educates the fans about the biggest change happening to the Bills this offseason. Wow.

by MattRichWarren on Feb 7, 2010 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

3-4

I like this idea the more I think about it! Either way, our defense wouldn’t be amazing next year anyway

by billsfan26 on Feb 4, 2010 8:14 PM EST reply actions  

with the bills track record, its hard not to like change. no matter what form it takes

Later Losman!

by rockybillboa on Feb 5, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

D

There´s no way we can play the 3-4 D with the players that we have rigth now, and I don´t think the daft will help alott this year. So what I´m trying to say is that either Porter, Merriman or other solid football players (DE, DT, LB) will come via F.A.

by rick p on Feb 4, 2010 8:28 PM EST reply actions  

a few players, can make a great deal of difference and inspire a great deal of hope. a few more “byrd-esque” picks can change the posts on these boards in no time.

Later Losman!

by rockybillboa on Feb 5, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

and I don´t think the daft will help alott this year

Don’t you kind of have to know who gets drafted before you start disliking or discouting the players that have yet to be taken?

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Great read

For every woman masturbating right now, there is a guy masturbating while imagining that woman masturbate.

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2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.

by Patssuck456 on Feb 4, 2010 8:36 PM EST reply actions  

hello Dolphins fan.

you always come over here. I love it.

Any info you might provide on Joey Porter? Is he all washed up, in your opinion? Maybe you could shed some light on his situation in Miami?

...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...

by JPH on Feb 4, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

i posted this a while ago in someone's post, but here's how i'd like to see them handle the NT position

Draft Cody in the 2nd round, keep stroud, bring Lonnie Harvey off the practice squad.

His problem has never been talent, it’s endurance. So let him play say 75% of 1st and 2nd downs. Then let Lonnie handle say 10%-15% of the remaining 1st and 2nd down snaps. Let Stroud play the remaining 10% (say, 2nd and longs) and then play 3rd downs at NT. Then you keep Cody fresh, get Harvey snaps, and let Stroud use his bizarre ball-swatting skills without making him play a position he’s not comfortable in. Lonnie Harvey obviously isn’t a starter yet, but if he goes full throttle for 8-10 plays a game, I have a hard time imagining he can’t get it done as a bit player.

Would this approach be a playoff worthy NT next year? probably not (definitely not), but it’d be ok, and we’d only need to acquire 1 player, and we’d still get to use Stroud a little bit.

...so I guess now I root for chan gailey...

by JPH on Feb 4, 2010 10:39 PM EST reply actions  

Osi Umenyiora.

Osi Umenyiora.does not want to be a back up defensive end for the giants and said he rather be traded than to be a back up….. the ny giants DE starters are justin tuck and Mathias Kiwanuka…..so the former probowl pass rushing de should go to western ny ….buffallo!!!!!! the bills shou;ld trade to get him!!!

by Mk209 on Feb 5, 2010 3:07 AM EST reply actions  

I’d be very content with Osi as a Bill. I just don’t know if he’s who they’d go after if moving to a 3-4.

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by TheAfghanTwilight on Feb 5, 2010 7:06 AM EST up reply actions  

What a switch to the 3-4 will teach you most about your guys personnel

is how talented your defensive secondary actually is. I’ve shared this here before, but the Chiefs were a custom built 4-3 team under Herm Edwards. When we adopted the New England system and switched to the 3-4 every fan believed our biggest strength was going to be our young defensive secondary. After switching schemes from a more zone orienated defense to one which required more man-to-man coverage’s our young DB’s weaknesses were quickly exposed. Our two starting safeties who we considered to be legitimate starters in the league (2nd & 7th round picks) were proven to be anything but, our promising rookie of the year from the season prior turned out to be anything but, and #2 corner looks more to be suited a #4 on the depth chart. Basically, it wasn’t a pretty conversion. While I’ve always considered Buffalo’s secondary fairly solid thru the years I wouldn’t be surprised to see a change in play. Namely I’m interested in how the change is going to effect Byrd’s production.

D.J. #56 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
The only thing more lame than mock draft's is the sarcasm font.

by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 5, 2010 2:51 PM EST reply actions  

Welcome, KC Shuffle
Namely I’m interested in how the change is going to effect Byrd’s production

His production could have been up or down even had we stayed in a 4-3…his production was a result of many factors including the opposing offenses having the ball so much of the time. IMO though, Byrd will continue his ball-hawking ways.

by NorCal BillsFan on Feb 5, 2010 3:55 PM EST reply actions  

Nice article Brian. It hasn’t changed my mind about being disappointed but gives me some hope that 2010 won’t be awful awful.

by MattRichWarren on Feb 7, 2010 9:02 AM EST reply actions  

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