Why Lynch should be kept
by csc06258 on Feb 6, 2010 3:12 AM EST
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http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2010/2/4/1295962/sport-science-compares-marshawn
Watch this crazy clip of him kicking it into beast mode. Not only is this guy an animal but he is only 23, far too young too be giving up on a 1st rounder who had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. Yes his character is a big issue, but do you seriously just want to get rid of him for nothing. I mean he is worth more to the team than a 3rd or 4th round pick at this point. He has a couple years left on his contract and has something to prove to the league after his mediocre season last year. Yes we all love Jackson, but he is pushing 30 and thats usually when you see RBs taper off. I would keep both and use both. We have bigger fish to fry then trying to trade lynch for a crappy second day pick- like fixing the O-line and getting the right personal to run a 3-4 defense. If anyone should get traded it Schobel in my opinion, thats if he is decides to come back. The guy is ready to retire and it would be great if we could get something for him. Enjoy the clip-its nice to see a Bill get some spotlight, especially when its not him doing something illegal.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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What everyone fails to realize is this:
WE CANNOT COUNT ON LYNCH!!! I agree 100% that his trade value is lower then the value he would have to the Bills IF he can stay out of trouble. If somebody could guarantee me that Lynch will stay out of trouble and be ready to go for a full season, then fine. It isn’t about finding his replacement or dumping him for nothing. It is about covering your behind for if/when he screws up again.
You said it yourself, Jackson is 30. If Lynch messes up again and get suspended then the Bills have basically 1 30 year old RB on the roster and that is it. RB is a much bigger need then most around here want to give it credit for.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
CJ spiller anyone
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
I don’t think anyone clamoring to trade Lynch is doing so because of his physical skillset.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
If Lynch gets suspended, does he count toward the 53 man roster?
Because that is the only reason I can see for getting rid of Lynch no matter what his value is. I don’t see why we need to draft a RB when you can pick someone up to get you through the year IF (big if) Freddie gets hurt and we have nobody else on the roster and/or practice squad. I have said it before……RB has got to be the easiest position to pick someone up, plug them in, and get average production. The Bills need to do two things before we will be competitive…..build the O-line and the D-line.
Fitz and Edwards can be average QBs with a good O-line giving them time to throw. Any QB not named Peyton has looked average or worse with constant pressure in their face. I am not saying we shouldn’t be looking for a new QB, just that we shouldn’t gamble on a guy we don’t believe can be a very good QB IN BUFFALO. If that guy is not in this draft, then go with what we have or bring in a FA stop gap. I would be fine with letting the three guys we got battle it out and picking up a long term project like Skelton in the 6th round. I still think that Pike in the second could be a good pick if he has the intangibles, but Tebow has slipped to a 3rd round prospect at best in my book. Be patient….next year’s QB class looks to be much better and I have no doubt we will be picking in the top 10 again next season.
I am so tired of all the optimists suddenly turned negative because of the switch to the 3-4. Even after seeing teams like the Fins turn their teams around in a year or the Packers switch successfully to a 3-4, suddenly the Bills can’t do it in less than 4 years because we have switched to the 3-4. The D-line is a issue, and it would have been even if we stayed with the 4-3. Sorry guys, our defense was not that close to being dominant. Maybe if those people would apply the blind optimism they had for our 4-3 personnel to believing they can play in a 3-4? I for one couldn’t be happier with the switch. I have said all along that Stroud and Williams can play DE in a 3-4. Some are getting on board with Stroud, but not with Williams yet. Sure, the guy gives up a few inches and has shorter arms, but don’t write him off. May of those same criticisms were made of him when we drafted him to play 4-3 DT. Sometimes guys can just play. I can’t wait to see people change their tune when Williams starts making plays as a 3-4 DE. Got to go out and get a NT in the 2nd-3rd round. He doesn’t need to be a stud…..just a Hang type player who won’t get embarrassed and hurt the team on every drive. If we eventually do find a stud NT, we will still need him for depth. Solid play by our front 3 and our DBs will allow us to play some of our smaller, faster LBs on the outside this season. Force the run to the outside and let our quicker LBs flow to the ball…. gang tackle like your life depended on it. Mitchell is going to have to be our run stuffer in the middle and Poz is going to have to play out of his mind next to him. I don’t see why everyone is so hyped up about McClain. I haven’t see a LB this overhyped since ….. Poz :-) Sure he is good, but he is no Patrick Willis. If we take him fine, but if not I doubt we will regret it like passing on Ngata and Oher. Just like our QB situation, this is not ideal, but will have to wait to be fixed with mid round picks this year and in later drafts.
Build the lines this year and we won’t be sorry.
Sorry if this turned into a krytime mini mind dump :-)
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
Because that is the only reason I can see for getting rid of Lynch no matter what his value is. I don’t see why we need to draft a RB when you can pick someone up to get you through the year IF (big if) Freddie gets hurt and we have nobody else on the roster and/or practice squad.
Why is Freddie possibly getting hurt a big if? I would say that the odds somebody lands on his knee is just as good as it is for any other RB. He’s not superman. I said it before and I will say it again; If Lynch gets in trouble again and the Bills don’t have a back up plan then they are just asking for trouble. Could the Bills just sign some scrub off the scrapheap and get okay production out of him? sure…but for how long? Getting your hands on a RB with a real future is somehow a bad idea?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
No, it is not a bad idea. But using a higher pick on a RB is not a judicious use of picks
for a team with as many needs for starting players as the Bills have, IMO. The basis for the Bills needing a RB is based on two things happening. One – Jackson gets hurt. And two – Lynch screws up enough to get suspended for a long period of time. Taken individually, there is a good chance of one of the two happening. The chances of both happening is got to be less that 50/50. If Nix and Gailey are half as tough on holding players accountable as everyone makes them out to be….that should be about twice as tough as Jauron was. Given the rock bottom trade value that everyone seems to think Lynch has, I am willing to gamble that the new guys will have Lynch on his best behavior. Now, if we get a good offer for Lynch, I still trade his a$$.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
I just think that getting a top player at any position is better then settling for a lesser player just because he fills a need. Would you rather draft one of the two best running backs in the draft, or the 6th or 7th best o-lineman? Settling for talent drop off like that is why this team is so bad. There is no top end talent. Did the Vikings really need Peterson when they drafted him? No. How about Harvin? No. They really didn’t need him but they took a dynamic offensive player both times and they went to the NFC championship game due in large part to contributions from those two players.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
good point, but at number 9 you can probably have the 2-4 best O-line man, 2nd best QB or 1st MLB/DE and thats better than taking a top RB. Maybe if CJ Spiller was in the second then yea you take him, similar to what the Bills did with Trent Edwards-them having a high grade on him when we had a starting QB.
I’m referring to taking Jahvid Best in the second round.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
If you think one of the RBs in this draft is the next AP, then yes you take him......I don't see any of them as the next AP
Taylor and AP are different RBs…..they complement each other. And, there were durability issues with AP, so it was wise to keep Taylor until those were answered. The Vikes did need a dynamic return man and Rice had not given any indication he would explode the way he did, so yes they needed an explosive WR. Harvin would have gone much higher if he didn’t get caught with the wacky weed, so they go mucho value with that pick. Would the Bills be getting that kind of value with your boy? Not sure where you think we should be taking the 6-7th best Olineman???? But, I am not opposed to taking a LT with our 1st pick and a center or Guard in the 3rd… Levitre turned out OK, right?.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
This is the problem Joe
Many people on this board gripe, (and justifiably so) that the Bills track record of drafting in the first round has not been good of late. The argument that I hear a lot is thought when you are drafting in the top 15 you need to hit a homer-run. Now lets use Mocking the Drafts latest mock as an example. In it Mocking Dan has the Bills taking WR Dez Bryant at #9. If you scroll down towards the bottom you will see a comment by our own MRW suggesting that a trade down would make more sense. I contest however that trading down to get lesser talent and complaining about lack of talent and bitching about not doing well at the top of the draft are conflicting thoughts.
What does this have to do with a RB? Well it is the same premise. Let us say that Best is on the board in round 2. Picking him could make plenty of sense because he has such a high ceiling. Most around here would complain because we can “pick up any scrub to play to play RB” we need a lineman. But what happens when that lineman busts and Best goes on to be a top player in the NFL?
This team has plenty of holes, yes. So do we think that one off-season is going to fix everything? I sure don’t. So what harm would it be to add some elite players to positions that aren’t the top needs? You said it yourself:
Levitre turned out OK, right?.
Yeah he did and he was taking at the tail end of the second round. Solid lineman can be found later, and can be big contributors as rookies. If the Bills don’t get 3 stud linemen in this draft it isn’t the end of the world.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
holy grammar police. I need to proof read before hitting the post button.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
So you are saying Best is the next AP? OK....take him. But why isn't he being mocked to be in the first round?
I guess I just don’t think the Bills need a RB more than a LT, NT, LB, or E.T. for that matter:-) Bryant makes no sense to me. We don’t have an O-line that can protect the QB long enough to make him a factor, or a QB good enough to move around and make the O-line look average and get Bryant the ball. Is Bryant the next Calvin Johnson? If not, then we can afford to pass on him. Why trade down? Because on a team so devoid of talent, two better than average players are worth more collectively than one possibly great player. Also, two players mitigate the risk of one player being a bust or getting injured.
Levitre is a G and not a LT, which as we all know goes much higher in the draft because they are more difficult to come by. I guess it comes down to where you want to take the chance on filling a critical need. I would rather play it safer and take a LT in round one…less chance of it not working out….than taking a RB who is not immediately needed to fill a starting spot or a WR who we can’t get the ball to. Like Buddy said, you can’t expect your QB to make throws went he is lying on his back.
The harm comes in much the same way it did to the Matt Millen lead Lions. IMO, the lines are the most important positions on the team outside of QB. Even Edwards can go deep if you give him a perfect pocket and 5 seconds to throw the ball. I am not saying we reach down and take a 3rd round prospect with our first pick, but just because someone thinks Bulaga shouldn’t go until 15, it would not make me pass him up at #9 for a WR or a RB just because Mocking Dan thinks that is where he should go.
And no, of we don’t get 3 lineman this draft it will not be the end of the world….just like it will not be the end of the world if we don’t take a RB at all.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
So you are saying Best is the next AP?
No never said that. I was using A.P. as an example of a team taking a BPA even though in wasn’t the biggest need on their team.
I guess I just don’t think the Bills need a RB more than a LT, NT, LB, or E.T. for that matter:-)
The point is that the Bills could use a player at literally every position, with the lone possible exception being CB. I agree LB, DT, and LT are much bigger needs, but again why settle for lesser players? Filling out the teams needs with mediocre players really doesn’t help that much.
Is Bryant the next Calvin Johnson? If not, then we can afford to pass on him. Why trade down? Because on a team so devoid of talent, two better than average players are worth more collectively than one possibly great player. Also, two players mitigate the risk of one player being a bust or getting injured.
Maybe he is. And if he is then your are passing on a potentially elite WR in the league. I will use the best example I can of when the Bills traded down last time. The Bills moved down in the first round instead of taking Steve Hutchinson, and ended up selecting Nate Clements and Travis Henry. Yes both Henry and Clements have had their moments but which would you rater have right now? I would take Hutch in a heart beat.
The harm comes in much the same way it did to the Matt Millen lead Lions.
Millen’s issue was the players he took. Was it Millen’s fault that Rodgers had injury and drug issues? I would say no, it was his fault however that Mike Williams was taken where he was. Millen seriously overrated him. If those guys had been Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson type players they were expected to be, we could be signing a very different tune. Of course Millen’s inability to draft good players at other positions is a factor to.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Mediocre and lesser players? Matter of opinion....
but again why settle for lesser players?
Why do the players available to the Bills in the top of the second round have to be lesser and/or mediocre? Certainly the Bills can find a quality starter in round 2. You seem to think Best will have more value to the team than whoever the Bills might take because…..why? If Best does drop to the second round, it is because he has issues that make it a risk to take him in the first. Where you see value, I see an equal amount of risk at a position we don’t need to gamble.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
I have said this at least five times now but I guess it is worth repeating. I would rather have the 2nd or 3rd best RB then the 6th or 7th best OT. The point being that the RB will be a better player because he slipped mainly due to the fact that everyone was selecting OTs. Again, I am talking about a specific scenario. If a top OT is there the I have no issue taking him.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
The lines are the most important positions on the team outside of QB.
How true Joe.
The battle is won in the trenches, you can have Peyton Manning as your QB, but if you can’t win the war in the trenches, you are going nowhere.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Feb 8, 2010 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
In it Mocking Dan has the Bills taking WR Dez Bryant at #9. If you scroll down towards the bottom you will see a comment by our own MRW suggesting that a trade down would make more sense. I contest however that trading down to get lesser talent and complaining about lack of talent and bitching about not doing well at the top of the draft are conflicting thoughts.
Well you can find talent lower in the first round, too, eric. The Bills have a lot of holes to plug and trading down to get more opportunities to fill them is a good idea. You pick one guy at 9 and I’ll pick one guy at 20 and one guy at 53 or something like that. I like my odds of finding a star player better than yours.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 8, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
You can find talent later, but the odds of finding an elite player are much less. My point is that the Bills have lots of holes, too many to fill in one off-season IMHO. Would you rather try to fill all the needs with mediocre players just to say the whole is “filled”, or get 1 or 2 elite players now and more later? I guess if you are okay with getting lesser talented players and rolling the dice that way, we will simply have to disagree here.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Eric, a good example is Jairus Byrd. Do you consider him elite talent? I do. Anytime we get a chance to fill needs players like those two I think you end up ahead of the game.
Do you consider Whitner elite? We wasted an 8th overall for Donte… So draft position is not everything. Owens was a 3rd rounder, Frank Gore was a 3rd, Brandon Marshall was 4th.
One thing though is that elite Left tackles are rarely found beyond the first 15 picks in the draft.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
There are exceptions to every rule of course, and yes you could get good talent later, but when this team is so deficient in top end talent I think that if a guy who you feel is an elite talent then you take him regardless of what you think your teams current needs are.
On Byrd. I like him. I really do. Elite talent? No. Not yet. He had a good rookie year, one that he didn’t even play in all 16 games in. He is talented and be could very well be a stud for years to come, but lets not get carried away.
Do you consider Whitner elite? We wasted an 8th overall for Donte… So draft position is not everything.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is why if you see a guy who is a stud you take him. If, and I say if, you really feel like a guy like Dez Bryant (just sticking with the example) could one day be mentioned in the same breath as Larry Fitzgerald, and Andre Johnson, and Reggie Wayne, then you take him. You take the guy who you feel is a slam dunk. You don’t pass on a better player because you think you need DT more then a RB or WR whatever the case may be.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
OK
I see your point. But this is the draft debate of ages… I’m sure Millen would argue that he felt that those WR were the BPA
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
That is where good scouting comes into play. I said this in a different thread, but I can repeat it. Is it Millen’s fault that Rodgers had injury and drug issues? I would say no. It is Millen’s fault that he graded Mike Williams so high. If both of those guys had been the kind of receiver that the lions thought they were you would be signing a different tune.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Would you rather try to fill all the needs with mediocre players just to say the whole is "filled", or get 1 or 2 elite players now and more later?
Elite players. My point is you’re more likely to get one elite player from two picks than one, even if they are lower in the first round. I agree we are more than one offseason away and I agree we have so many holes that pretty much every position is PBA. I wouldn’t be mad if they picked Dez Bryant. I’d be mad if they left a good trade down offer on the table where they would have had three picks in the first 40ish instead of 2.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 8, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t be mad if they picked Dez Bryant. I’d be mad if they left a good trade down offer on the table where they would have had three picks in the first 40ish instead of 2
I will agree on that. The deal has to be right though.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I get the feeling that Nix/Gailey will be more active on the draft day trading block than Marv/Jauron were.
Nothing left to say... the clock is ticking...
That is saying a lot. Marv/Jauron traded at least once almost every year.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
No Lynch would not count to the 53 man roster.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 8, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I am so tired of all the optimists suddenly turned negative because of the switch to the 3-4. Even after seeing teams like the Fins turn their teams around in a year or the Packers switch successfully to a 3-4, suddenly the Bills can’t do it in less than 4 years because we have switched to the 3-4.
Me? You want to talk reality? Theck Pack had a great QB and used two first round picks on new players for that 3-4 defense. We have no QB, no NT, and are need help at several positons. The Packers had a good secondary and Aaron freaking Rodgers. Let’s talk about the Chiefs and Broncos and how they turned it around in their first year running the 3-4.
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by MattRichWarren on Feb 8, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
You are on that list, IMO
I know that it might not be easy, but my point is that it can be done. I think your opinion of our 4-3 was overly optimistic and your overly pessimistic about how long it will take to make our 3-4 work just as well or better than what our 4-3 was.
If we end up with Vick, T.O., Richie I., and Porter….that is really pushing the dbag density limit for one team.
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